In February 2009, when Barack Obama took the oath of office to become the president of the United States, he placed his hand on the Bible and swore that he would uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Since then, he has been doing everything he can to deny the people of the United States the rights guaranteed in the Constitution. He has ignored the spirit of the Constitution, which was designed to protect the people from tyranny and from someone such as himself; and, he has been waging war against Christianity (and the nation of Israel) after placing his hand on the Bible to make the oath.
When he stood taking the oath of office with his hand on the Bible, he absolutely knew he had no intention of keeping the oath. To some, the truth means nothing.
Oh, Constance. Another opportunity to rail at Obama.
You need to learn something. The Catholic Church has pulled a faux issue (read: lie). They have a hospital in SW Washington where they provide health care benefits to employees, including birth control and abortion.
You’re right, Constance. To some, the truth means nothing.
Oh for crying out loud Constance, get a life.
Really? Which hospital is that?
Constance, what are you talking about? I am reading a lot of complaining with no substance, sounds a little like a 3 year old crying and whining *sniffle* *sniffle*. Come back with something we
adults can find compelling.
hansgruber – Providence Hospital provides the option of Group Health for its employees.
Now that I’ve identified them and the health care program, does that change the hypocrisy of the Church or the hidden agenda of a political attack?
In addition, Providence has several partnerships with Group Health. If their “morals” were as strong as they claim, one would think that they wouldn’t accept business from a health care cooperative that provides such services.
Of course, money has a way of relieving guilt.
You forgot the war on with America’s children who will have to pay off his massive debts. Some budget proposal.
Kard- that is choice vs a mandate. Thought you far left were all about choices? I guess only when it fits in with your illogical progressive view of the world
concernedtacoma7
Were you this “concerned” when Shrub started two unfunded wars? The cost of those alone would pay most of the deficit.
Honestly—when did it become okay for those who are “reality challenged” to throw ugliness around with impunity? Constance—get your meds checked. Denying women the right to health care is a LOSER issue…..Ask the Komen foundation how that worked out for them. Concerned in Tacoma–quit jumping on every shaky bandwagon—-this letter is thin, and frankly, a bit crazy. Write your own letter-make your own argument. Joe Scarborough warned Republicans on Meet the Press on Sunday that this issue is dangerous for them………women in this country are fed up with pedophile bishops and male politicians telling them what they can or cannot have in their health care….They will strike back—beware, this is, indeed a very dangerous issue for politicians today. And, women have long memories………
Oh My! Another Waldenism. “To some the truth means nothing.” Look in the mirror Ms. Walden.
AS I always tell my students, when you make big claims you have to back them up with some facts. Constance has no facts at all in this letter, just a bunch of claims.
A little curious though….just when did the President put his hand on the Bible and swear to defend Israel?
Martini-
Sunday, February 12, 2012 – Page updated at 10:30 a.m.
No big changes likely for Catholic institutions here
By Carol M. Ostrom
Seattle Times health reporter
Providence Health & Services, a multistate health system that recently entered into an affiliation with Swedish Medical Center, wouldn’t say whether its plans cover contraceptives.
Spokeswoman Colleen Wadden would say only that plans vary and Providence won’t talk publicly about the details of any benefits except with employees.
“When we get actual regulatory language we will review it to better understand the implications for Providence,” she said.
Swedish, on the other hand, which remains a secular institution, according to the affiliation agreement, will continue to provide employees access to prescription contraceptives, said spokesman Ed Boyle.
The Archdiocese of Seattle didn’t respond Friday for comment.
Insurers here say they can’t yet predict how the policy will affect them.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/avantgo/2017479317.html
gruber – First of all, I said Group Health Cooperative, not Swedish. Secondly, I don’t need a spokesperson. My daughter-in-law works there and selected Group Health as her health care choice (insurance and provider). Finally, this has been going on for some time, as she has been employed there for close to 10 years.
The point being – which you tried to cloud with superfluous BS – Providence HAS BEEN PROVIDING an insurance option that provides birth control AND abortion as part of their program. For the Catholic Church to suddenly have problems with birth control pills is nothing short of hypocrisy or a ploy to attack Obama via the health care mandate.
Fib- unbudgeted. How is that relevant to BHOs trillion dollar deficits? One year of his big govt give aways and we fought a challenging counterinsurgency, toppled a dictator saving hundreds of thousands, and denied terrorists a safe haven. We brought the fight to the enemy, denying them the time and resources to attack our homeland.
Far left is acting quite childish. You want to sleep around, pay for your own choices. This is not about health, but subsidizing individual responsibility.
It is $20-30 a month. Grow up people.
The silver lining is liberal Catholics will stay home in 2012, not voting for more big govt failed policies.
concerned, this is about deficits? And “This is not about health, but subsidizing individual responsibility.”
Contraceptive care produces a net negative cost for the entire healthcare system and it has nothing whatsoever to do with your sleeping around. Now there is a deficit one has to love.
I expect there to be a certain level of stupefying ignorance with the sheer number of people represented in the genealogical breadth of our species. considering the utter lack of a functional education system in this country and i fully expect and appreciate that the opinion of those produced in such a cluster will inevitably produce a sweeping variants. but to publish such unfounded, illicitly and patently false propaganda is completely irresponsible.
Nice grammar and punctuation. Instead of trying to sound smart, debate a point of view.
Bottom line is this is society subsidizing personal choices. This is demanding religious institutions to go against their beliefs.
Publico- my response was to Fib. Not hard to figure that one out since I started it with “Fib-”. I agree this is not directly about money, but contraceptive care is about sex and personal choices. Same partner of many, it is a choice.
CT7 – The relevance of Bush two unfunded wars is that Obama put them on the budget which accounted for the single biggest increase in his budgets. The second biggest increase was the interest payments on money Bush borrowed from China.
PS: It has been reported that 98% of Catholic women use birth control so don’t count the liberal Catholic vote out.
Xring- you are a broken record on the cost of war. I has been paid for from the start, but Bush woul not limit his warfighters. Iraq is over, so why are we spending trillions more since BHO is took office. TARP, a Bush program, worked and stabilized the economy. Every program since has made things worse. SS is underfunded thanks to BHO. True reform was pushed aside for an extremely partisan agenda pushing unwanted programs. Those that work hard are now punished, to the benefit of people sitting on the couch (blogging about legalizing pot).
People make more getting a check in the mail from Uncle Sam than busting their rear in the private sector. All of this is the fault of dems and failed progressive policies. Blame Bush does not work anymore, if you do not like the situation the country is in blame BHO and partisan policy makers like Murray, Reid and Pelosi.
concernedtacoma7,
The only way the war has “been paid for from the start” has been to postpone other bills and borrow funds, since the war originally was off the books and had no actual budget of its own. Add to that the fact that the troops have been out of Iraq for less than two months and we still have government paid contractors over there… the bills are still coming in. We are still paying for that war and probably will be for quite some years.
“Blame Bush” for parts of the national debt will continue as long as we are still paying the bills for the actions he committed our country to. While President Obama’s actions have not been without fault, he cannot wave a magical wand and suddenly undo everything that had been done by previous administrations.
You said, “Those that work hard are now punished, to the benefit of people sitting on the couch (blogging about legalizing pot).”
As opposed to people sitting at the computer blogging about “blame BHO”…?
You claim, “People make more getting a check in the mail from Uncle Sam than busting their rear in the private sector.”
So none of those soldiers, postal workers, office clerks, administrators, VA Hospital personnel, engineers, and so forth ever “bust their rear” like they do “in the private sector”? Yeah, right. Tell that to a soldier on the front line or the mail carrier making sure you get your favorite magazines, even in blizzard conditions.
How about all those “private sector” workers who are indirectly paid by the government: contracted construction crews, truck drivers, Boeing workers, caterers, and others who are paid with federal government dollars? Don’t you realize how many of those “busting their rear in the private sector” are also essentially “getting a check in the mail from Uncle Sam”?
One has to wonder what our lives would be like if all those people really did as little work as you always claim they do…
Kinda looks like keep religion separate from the Government but not the government from religion?
Another Stephen Colbert parody from Constance – this is a parody isn’t it? Not a fact in there anywhere. And she uses the term
“hand on the Bible” in each paragraph as if she’s chanting some strange slogans she heard on some comic pseudo-news show like The Daily Show or Fox news….
“Kinda looks like keep religion separate from the Government but not the government from religion?”
Well, hans, when you have religions that do things like outlaw interracial dating based on their “belief”, I guess it’s time for the government to step in and do what they are hired for – to protect the citizens.
alindasue takes it to school again. Nice work, lady.
This has NOTHING to do with religion. this is a bunch of CELIBATE men (we all hope!) telling the females in their flock what they cannot do. The ladies, at the estimated rate of 98%, have been ignoring them for years. So, now, next, we have a bunch of Republican politicians, who can’t harp about the economy soooo much, because it does appear to be improving, jumping on this issue and beating the drum of religious freedom!!!! Hah! Didn’t hear that drum rolling for those women in the 98% who IGNORE those idiotic Bishops. The freedom of equality in health care escapes this crowd. Plus, as Komen learned, women do NOT like these issues to become part of a political agenda……so, I say to all of the Bishops and the Republicans—keep it up. Every time you flap your mouths, the Democrats pick up another few female votes. Joe Scarborough nailed it—this issue will come back and bite you hard. Religious freedom is NOT defined by discrimination towards women. And, women are tired of listening to a bunch of men tell them what they can or cannot have. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!!!!
Thank you alindasue, nobody could have said it better.
Gotta wonder just how many of these folks all up in arms about this “attack on Christianity” also believe that Catholicism is in service to the anti-christ…..
“Nice grammar and punctuation”
When you can’t refute the message, pick on the grammar. Nice.
“TARP, a Bush program, worked and stabilized the economy. Every program since has made things worse.”
And yet unemployment is down, and the stock market and GDP are both up. Do you just make this stuff up and expect thinking people to believe you?
You have confused a war on your god and religion with not always getting what you want.
To some, the truth means nothing.
At least Constance ends her letter with a truthful sentence. However, I doubt she realize that it works best as a critique of her own writing.
Took it to school? Nope.
Over 150k to a few thousand contractors on Iraq (lets use 20k as the high number). No ammo being used, fuel for jets overhead, etc. The costs today ar enothing compared to years past. Yes, we were operating with deficit spending under Bush. First off is his is critized by even his own party for spending too much and looking at Keynesian solutions for the economy. Second, lets not pretend he did not walk into a reccession and 9/11.
End of the day he (Bush) overspent, but nothing compared to what BHO is doing today. His deficits were dramatically smaller that BHOs. The insane budgets of the last 3 years and joke of a budget proposed this week have very little effects from Bush. BHO owns the economy and govt today, as he has for the last 3 years. Prescription Meds are also a huge part of Bush’s spending. Take those costs out of his spending and he was basically neutral.
Anyway, nice deflection from the present. BHO ramped up war spending in Afghanistan. BHO looked for Keynesian and big govt solutions to our economy, and generations will have to pay. Trillion dollar debts, something unheard of under Bush, are BHO’s norm.
Former govt employees and those just cashing in on being in America are making more than those working. Spin it anyway you want, our govt is punishing the working man, small and big business, and rewarding those that do not produce.
As to your last line- you are giving people credit for past work, not current contributions. Apples and oranges. Nice strawman.
“To some, truth means nothing.” Yes Constance. They are called Republicans. How exactly is Obama thwarting your rights? How is he at war with you insane theocratic “christians”?
Emoo- your bigotry is not even masked. The bulk of America considers themselves Christian.
I pray this comes back to bite the left in the Nov.
The left jumps up to defend people that stone their women, but ask a person to pay for their own personal choices and they cry.
The least you could do is make that refrain you keep singing rhyme, menopaws. You know, the Big Bad Fat White Guys refrain.
“I pray this comes back to bite the left in the Nov”
I’m certain that Jesus is up there on the hotline just waiting for political prayers.
“End of the day he (Bush) overspent, but nothing compared to what BHO is doing today.”
BHO is paying Bush’s bills left behind. Alindasue already made you look foolish. Don’t play Magic Johnson to her Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
big·ot·ry /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] Show IPA
noun, plural -ries.
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
At least TRY to be accurate.
I’m sure glad that sozo has lost her thin skin and wants to play insults with people.
It will be short lived – until someone throws something back at her – but it’s always fun to watch the hypocrisy.
While you appreciate Alindasue’s post (as do I), it makes neither her right or you intelligent.
Bush left a deficit that was too large. What does that have to do with BHOs I’ve spending? Show me what % of BHOs debt is W’s fault
TARP, the wasted stimulus, and war can at least justify his first year’s deficit. No justification today,except failed policies and union give aways. Oh, and paying for individual responsibility.
I thought this thread was about waging war on Christianity. ct7 is off topic again.
“Bush left a deficit that was too large. What does that have to do with BHOs I’ve spending? Show me what % of BHOs debt is W’s fault”
Certainly – http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
On 9/30/08 – 10,024,724,896,912.49 (BUSH)
two years later – 13,561,623,030,891.79 (OBAMA)
without using a calculator, Bush’s share of Obama’s debt was 77%
Aren’t you glad you asked?
Now since the debt has increased and Bush is no longer around his share decreases (interest accrual unknown)
Today the debt is 15,353,000,000,000.00, so Bush’s share is down to 65% of the total debt under Obama.
Then…..calculate the interest accrued on the debt incured by Bush that got added to Obama’s debt…..well, I know I just lost you, so I’ll quit.
Oh and TARP was all under Bush. Obama didn’t provide any of the TARP loans – “The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008.”
Back to school.
concernedtacoma7 said, “As to your last line- you are giving people credit for past work, not current contributions. Apples and oranges. Nice strawman.”
Sometimes you seem to understand people’s words exactly as you want to understand them, regardless of what they may have actually said.
The people in my last line were/are the exact same currently working and contributing people that I was talking about in the two paragraphs prior. I was not comparing “apples and oranges” or even “apples and apples”. Those were the exact same “apples”.
In that light, please go back and reflect again on what I said.
You said, “Over 150k to a few thousand contractors on Iraq (lets use 20k as the high number). No ammo being used, fuel for jets overhead, etc. The costs today ar enothing compared to years past.”
Never did I say that the Iraq situation was still as expensive as it had been. I said that we still had contractors over there and that the bills are still coming in for the war. We are still paying for the war that President Bush started and committed us to and we will still be paying for it years into the future – no matter who the next president or two end up being.
You also said, “Second, lets not pretend he did not walk into a reccession and 9/11.”
For the first part you could be talking about President Bush or President Obama. President Bush inherited the mess following the savings and loan crisis. President Obama came into an economy virtually on the edge of collapse. His first acts in office were to implement the emergency measures that he, as President-elect, and President Bush had worked out together.
President Bush did not inherit 9/11. That happened fully during his term in office. While he can not be blamed for what happened that day, I do fault him for the way he handled the situation in the months and years that followed. I especially fault him for repeatedly using “Remember 9/11″ as a rallying call for a war against a people who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. That war has been extremely costly – both morally, in human lives and international goodwill lost, as well as financially.
I’ll be the first to admit that President Obama has not been without his faults. However, just as President Bush inherited the aftermath of the savings and loan crisis and the mess in Somalia from President Clinton, President Obama inherited an even worse recession and two very active – and expensive – war fronts from President Bush.
I’ll say it again: the current president cannot wave a magical wand and suddenly undo everything that had been done by previous administrations. President Bush leaving office does not absolve him of blame (or credit) for the effects from his actions while he was in office. When President Obama leaves office (in 2013 or 2017), the same will be true for him.
As to the original letter at the top of all this debate… if you are looking to find a “nice strawman”, I think you might find it there.
Getting back on topic:
Ms. Walden,
I don’t even know where to begin with your letter.
It is full of accusations and loaded emotional words with no specific examples or data to back any of it up. Please, if you have some specific examples of President Obama’s behavior to bring to the discussing, bring them. I’d like to see them.
Alindasue- thank you for the response. After a nice long nap, I hope to answer your questions and dispute the typical ‘blame Bush’ defense of BHO.
I am not spending my time and effort defending W (while he had my respect and I believe he wished the best for America) but I will not let the current Commander in Chief and current leader of American politics get a pass for his actions/inaction.
concernedtacoma7,
I only blame (or credit) President Bush for what he has done. I only blame (or credit) President Obama for what he has done. However, I acknowledge that what a person does has an effect beyond what he is doing right now. The effects of President Bush’s actions did not end as soon as President Obama took office. Likewise, the effects of President Obama’s time in office will not stop the day he leaves either. (For instance, some provisions of “Obamacare” don’t take effect till after he leaves office.)
You can’t blame all of our deficit problems on President Obama. It just doesn’t work that way. Each subsequent president, for good or evil, has to deal with the actions of the president before him.
I pray this comes back to bite the left in the Nov.
Not very Christ-like, but unfortunately typical for self-proclaimed Christians to pray for harm to come to others…..
To point to W to absolve Obama or to point to Clinton to absolve W is just playing into the silly partisan b.s. that serves those who want to keep the governed providing consent to continue to not having any voice in how we are governed.
Mitt’s “comeback” in Florida demonstrates it clearly – Money Rules. And none of us are Money. Oh sure, we might have enough to retire (if the whole thing doesn’t completely crash and burn as a result of the Euro crisis) or go on a cruise or….. But, until you are worth billions you have no voice in our “democratic republic”
The Dems and the Repubs are just two sides of the same coin which is being flipped by the Money Party.
beerBoy said, “To point to W to absolve Obama or to point to Clinton to absolve W is just playing into the silly partisan b.s….”
That’s not what I intended to say and I hope that’s not how you interpreted what I said. I merely meant that the results of a president’s actions don’t just suddenly end the day he leaves office.
Personally, I’ve found that both the Democrats and the Republicans just use different means to achieve essentially the same ends.
As usual, concerned is ignoring the documented facts he requested.
“Over 150k to a few thousand contractors on Iraq (lets use 20k as the high number).”
… is not a complete sentence.
Martini-Bush added $4.899 Trillion to the debt, not $10.626. As of the 13th, Obama has added $4.729 Trillion.
Facts please
Martini-Oh and TARP was all under Bush. Obama didn’t provide any of the TARP loans – “The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008.”
March 30, 2011-The bank bailout — part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program — is now $6 billion in the black, a profit that might ultimately rise to $20 billion, according to the Treasury.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/30/news/economy/tarp_program/index.htm
alindasue – I wasn’t responding to your well-reasoned post. Just commenting on the usual partisan tennis match.
Mm- what an ignorant post (w/link). You use the total debt figure as Bush’s debt. Yes, that was the debt when he left office, and it was too large, but not all his, just like BHO is not 100% responsible for today’s deficit. BHO is responsible for everything above and beyond debt payments on the $10tril that was there when he took office.
TARP was repaid with a profit to the treasury (go Bush!). It stabilized the financial industry without costing us a dime. Since that, and the failed stimulus, were part of BHOs initially fat budgets, what is the excuse for the $1.3 tril overspending budget he just proposed? There is no rational reason.
Ok, so TARP is done, stimulus giveaway is over, and Iraq is over for all intensive purposes. Why the insane budget proposal? Where are the adults?
And, let’s look at who controlled the purse during the big spending years.
Yes, I helped this thread change courses, but the letter is about BHO, his failures and the attack on our future.
“TARP was repaid with a profit to the treasury (go Bush!).”
My, what an ignorant post.
Guess you’ve forgotten that TARP was opposed by a majority of Republicans. In the House, Democrats voted 140–95 in favor of the legislation, while Republicans voted 133–65 against it. Remember what happened the next day? Wall Street dropped 777 points.
So because it worked and did not cost a trillion dollars it was bad?
Over a 150k Servicemen in Iraq to a few thousand contractors. Figured the average reader would understand the number in context. I will try and speak plainer for you in the future.
concernedtacoma7 said, “and Iraq is over for all intensive purposes,” and “Over a 150k Servicemen in Iraq to a few thousand contractors.”
I think you should be saying that Iraq is decreased, not “over”. As long as we still have people over there running up the bills, it is not “over”.
From a budgetary standpoint, it won’t be “over” for this country until long after the “few thousand contractors” have finally come home and we’ve finally paid the last of the debt (and interest on that debt) caused by the war. That won’t be for many years.