Letters to the Editor

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POLITICS: Conservative spin is masterful

Letter by Annie Russell, Gig Harbor on Jan. 25, 2012 at 10:26 am with 90 Comments »
January 25, 2012 2:20 pm

Conservatives dodge and weave and hide from the facts of history, while a gullible, low-information populace wafts in forgetfulness. Conservative-think blames this near-Depression on Obama’s “failed policies,” braying he has run up a titanic deficit as the “food stamp president.”

Lost in the unfathomable mists of time, which is to say three years ago, is the picture of George W. Bush falling like an Italian cruise ship captain into a waiting lifeboat and fleeing the scene while the ship of state was still in its earliest stage of distress from the catastrophic recklessness of 30 years of conservative economic policy.

We didn’t realize that “trickle-down,” which more accurately should be termed “gush up,” would eventually threaten to sink the entire enterprise.

Conservative ideology left the American economy in shambles, and Republican presidents are responsible for two-thirds of the current deficit. But according to the Republicans, it’s all Obama’s fault, oh, and the liberals, unions, public employees, poor people, illegal immigrants, gays and lesbians, any scapegoat to divert attention from what clearly caused the problem: deregulation and the conservative double-mantra of coddling the rich and corporations.

Forgetting their own past is a conservative tradition. Conservatives fought violently against independence from Britain, rights for poor white men, public education, the abolition of slavery, worker’s rights, child labor laws, women’s rights, civil rights, environmental protections, gay and lesbian rights, and just about every form of progress in our nation’s history.

Remember that record of wrongness as they continue to try to rewrite history.

Leave a comment Comments → 90
  1. ManuelMartini says:

    Annie, the GOP depends on low information voters, otherwise they’d lose all the ridiculous spin.

    Watch how the final GOP candidate becomes more centrist in the general election, when he’s not feeding red meat to the Republican faithful. The problem with Ron Paul is that he refuses to spin, thus his faithful are his faithful, but he can’t pull the Gingrich followers or the Romney followers.

    Regardless of Gingrich or Romney nominated, either will change positions more than a yoga class, in search of the “Independent vote”.

  2. menopaws says:

    You go girl!!!!!!! I am sooo damn tired of how this morphed into President Obama’s fault—do they think all of us are brain dead??? I remember the meltdown–I remember the look in Bush’s eyes—deer caught in the headlights…………..And, now, somehow, because Obama couldn’t wave a magic wand and make it all better—the whiners blame President Obama. Years and years of greed and stupidity—not all of that can be laid at the politicians feet……..People got greedy and spent and spent and spent……..As did their government–two unfunded wars, tax cuts and “deficits don’t matter” ala Dick Cheney………Our President has done his best–with NO help from the opposition…….Just criticism and sniping and revising reality to make themselves look like victims………..Shameful revisionist history…..Thanks for your letter.

  3. aislander says:

    This letter and the subsequent cheer-leading comments are exemplars of forgetting and rewriting history. Thirty years (not!) of timid moves toward the Constitution and a free market didn’t cause the crisis we are now not leaving, but approaching.

    Greece, Portugal, Italy, France, Ireland, and other European nations didn’t do the things this “patriot” accuses US of doing, but are in even worse financial condition than we are.

    We are in the straits we’re in because OUR ship has been off-course for almost a hundred years, with even more wrong turns being added over the years, with Barack Obama being only the latest in the series.

    As Robert Samuelson said in a column a few weeks ago, a capitalist economy can’t support a welfare state, and, to the degree the economy becomes more socialistic and, therefore, less productive, it is even less able to do so…

  4. Newt Gingrich is now the yardstick of integrity by which all Republicans can be measured.

    Gingrich is a serial wife-cheater, for the party of Family Values.

    Gingrich attacked President Clinton for the Lewinsky affair while at the same time he was having an extra-marital affair of his own.

    Gingrich attacked congressmen Frank and Dodd for their dealings with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae while he was taking over a million dollars in lobbyist fees and claiming now he was just a”historian.”

    Gingrich is a former congressman and Speaker of the House, who was essentially kicked-out of congress by members of his own party, and fined $300k for unethical practices while he was Speaker.

    This is the man they want to lead this country? Our country!

    It’s no wonder that the Republican Party is the party of historical revisionism. They have to revise history in order to be able to support a person like Newton Leroy Gingrich for president.

    Anyone who can support Newt Gingrich for president is the kind of person who can make excuses for all that he has done and more, and come up with lies against all of his opponents, even those opponents he has within his own Republican Party.

    Talk about spin-master! Gingrich has spun the gullible in his party so fast, for so long, it’s no wonder few of them really have any clue as to which way is up. Don’t hate them for that. Pity them, for they know not what they do!

  5. Excellent Aislander. I guess Annie forgot the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed by President Clinton in 1999. It deregulated the banks. Oops!

    Obama has already racked up almost 5 trillion in debt in 3 years. And you are calling out the Republicans for their spending? Good grief!

    Who was in charge of the banking and finance Committees from 2006-2008? Democrats – Barney Frank and Christopher Dodds. They did a great job with their oversight of the banking industry. Didn’t Dodds get a sweetheart deal from Countrywide? Were these some of those facts you were trying to hide from that gullible public?

  6. Oops! Senator Dodd does not have an s in his last name.

    Muck – I agreed with you on the prejudice against Mitt Romney but not on your diatribe about Gingrich. I am for Romney and I believe he will get the nomination if the evengelicals will wake up. Even though Newt has some faults, I will vote for him because the country is going in the wrong direction and the polls say that overwhelmingly.

  7. concernedtacoma7 says:

    “Brain dead”. Like not using the ‘enter’ key and writing incomplete sentences?

    And Ai and Chile are spot on. First, how about we look at who controlled congress during periods of huge spending. Second, this is the slowest recovery in modern history (BHO, Harry, and Nancy can split the blame on that one). Third, the economy established in the 80’s exploded in the 90’s under a conservative congress leading to unparalleled expansion. Last, will top .1% of earners have seen their wealth expand a great deal, everyone else’s has gone up, just not as much. At the same time, our standard of living shot up.

  8. writnstuff says:

    Annie. Nice job. Thanks for writing.

  9. Menopaws: Thanks for your progressive and innovative writing style—-Your posts are a joy to read…You get your point across with gusto and pizzaz….Everything you write is perfectly clear, honest, concise and to the point……Understood by everyone….You’re an example of an American who is truly an individual, unlike the zillions of sheep so prevelant these days…. Keep up the excellent work and don’t change a thing!!!!

  10. menopaws, I second what cirrus has written re: your posts. You have style and your comments are a joy to read. Keep it up!!!

  11. ManuelMartini says:

    “Obama has already racked up almost 5 trillion in debt in 3 years.”

    I thought that Congress handled the spending, not the President. Since we’ve had a Republican House of Representatives since January 2010, we should have had all the financial problems solved, right?

    For the debt to increase at such a rate, one would think that increasing revenue would be a logical step in the process, but it appears that our Republicans are not willing to do that. At the same time, they are not willing to stop spending with their friends, especially military providers, at a rate that will stop the flow of red ink.

  12. ManuelMartini says:

    “Even though Newt has some faults, I will vote for him because the country is going in the wrong direction and the polls say that overwhelmingly.”

    So we need a president with no family values to make the country go in the right direction?????

    Amazing how those conservatives can change direction in a heartbeat. Of course, they think the Palins have family values, so maybe there is a little consistancy going on.

  13. “I guess Annie forgot the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed by President Clinton in 1999. It deregulated the banks. Oops!”

    The repeal of the Glass Steagall Act was called the “Financial Services Act of 1999″, also known as the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, named after the three Republicans who wrote and introduced the bill.

    It was introduced into the Republican controlled House of Representatives by Jim Leach(R) Iowa. It was introduced into the Republican controlled Senate by Texas Republican Phil Gramm.

    In the House, 155 Democrats and 207 Republicans voted for the measure, while 51 Democrats, 5 Republicans and 1 independent opposed it. Fifteen members did not vote.

    Voting in the Senate: 53 Republicans and 1 Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats against.

    During debate in the House of Representatives, Rep. John Dingell (Democrat of Michigan) argued that the bill would result in banks becoming “too big to fail.” Dingell further argued that this would necessarily result in a bailout by the Federal Government.

    “I think we will look back in 10 years’ time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930’s is true in 2010,” said Senator Byron L. Dorgan, Democrat of North Dakota.

  14. Pacman33 says:


    If you had any clue, whatsoever, to what you are blabbering about, you would know by the year 1999 Glass Steagall had already long been effectively rendered an obsolete Depression-era relic.

    Glass-Steagall had been gutted at several occasions prior to your ‘3 Republican Fable’. Glass-Steagall was reduced in 1986, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1996, 1997 and 1998. There was next to nothing left to repeal. What shreds were left needed modernization for it’s incompatibility with the previous changes to the other 95% of itself along with age being from the 1930’s. Which would be the real and not fabricated purpose for Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act.

    It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a “dismal science.” But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. Yet this sort of aggressive ignorance is inherent in the creed of leftist-occupism.

  15. Republicans need to accept the major responsibility for the repeal of Glass-Steagall, as it was their bill, and accept the entire responsibility for the expiration of PAYGO in 2002 when the Republicans held majorities in both Congress and Senate under GWB. PAYGO worked wonders in the 1990’s under Bill Clinton to keep deficit spending in check. PAYGO required all increases in direct spending or revenue decreases to be offset by other spending decreases or revenue increases.

    The repeal of Glass-Steagall resulted in near destruction of the financial system in 2007, and allowing PAYGO to expire, triggered ever-increasing yearly deficits. Shortly after PAYGO expired, GWB’s proposed tax cuts went into effect, and not long thereafter, came Medicare Part D, neither of which would have been possible if Republicans had not allowed PAYGO to expire.

    We all know whats happened to deficits since 2002. Republicans have lots to answer for.

    Pacman, your not worthy of an answer. Anyone here can easily discover that the effect of Glass-Steagall on the banking industry lasted until it was repealed in 1999.

  16. menopaws says:

    Same old arguments- It always surprises me how selective the memory gets……..Let’s see—Paul Wolfwitz testifying to Congress that the Iraq War would , of course, be paid for by oil revenues. Dick Cheney–WMD and “nuclear” warfare……….How many more do you need? Hit the TNT archives sometime–real eye-opener.
    I respect President Obama because he is NOT a liar. You can disagree with his policies if you want–but, he has NEVER blatantly lied to the citizens of this country. Newt Gingrich will say anything to get what he feels is his………In the true tradition of his party, the big lie is the best way……….And, they are experts at the BIG lie–we have 9 years of a War that was based on falsehoods………
    Concerned—come up with an new phrase……….Boring, boring, boring.
    Great letter and I always appreciate a writer who speaks the truth.

  17. so….let me get this straight….the local deacons of the Church of the Invisible Hand are blaming Clinton for the foundations of this economic mess because he signed a deregulation bill created by a Republican-controlled Congress AND they claim that the bill was necessary because it got rid of arcane regulations.

    I knew that youse guys often directly contradicted yourselves in defense of your theological beliefs but to do it in such a short thread is rather special.

  18. What makes it even more special is that your out-of-control spinning is on a thread about conservative spin-meisters……

  19. hansgruber says:

    “Forgetting their own past is a conservative tradition”


    US President Barack Obama has said he inherited much of the country’s problems with high debt and deficits when he entered the White House, sounding a theme likely to dominate his 2012 re-election campaign.

    As a US Senator prior to his being President, Obama voted for all this high debt as did is VP and SOS. Funny how he didn’t want to take responcibility for helping create what he inherited?

  20. ManuelMartini says:

    OK…let me see if I get this.

    If Bush was president, the debt is Obama’s fault for voting it in.

    If Obama is president, the debt is Obama’s fault.

    A quick check of the ownership of the Telegraph will explain why they are anti-Obama.


  21. stumpy567 says:

    Ok Annie if you say so…..

    “Conservative ideology left the American economy in shambles, and Republican presidents are responsible for two-thirds of the current deficit. But according to the Republicans, it’s all Obama’s fault, oh, and the liberals, unions, public employees, poor people, illegal immigrants, gays and lesbians, any scapegoat to divert attention from what clearly caused the problem: deregulation and the conservative double-mantra of coddling the rich and corporations”

    Mabe I’m wrong, but wasn’t Abraham Lincoln a Republican?
    Does “Illegal Immigrant” mean they are actually here legally?
    When you speak of deregulation you must mean the repeal of the Glass Stegall act in 1999 who was signed into law by, none other than, Bill Clinton.

    Sorry to interrupt you from watching Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman and Ed Schultz on MSNBC.

  22. stump… “Sorry to interrupt you from watching Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman and Ed Schultz on MSNBC.”

    Pretty obvious that you haven’t watched anything on MSNBC for a while stumps. Keith Olbermann hasn’t been on that network since July 2011. You really should expand your viewing horizons beyond Fox. If you did, you wouldn’t be so programmed into the right-wing delusions otherwise known as the “Conservative ideology” which has, in fact, “left the American economy in shambles.”


  23. ManuelMartini says:

    If you are really wanting Olberman, he is on cable network “Current”.

    The neat part is that he still does “worst person in the world”.

  24. concernedtacoma7 says:

    The neat part is that terrible, racist, sexist sports reporter is banished to a network no one watches.

  25. stumpy – Lincoln wasn’t a conservative and, while he was a Republican, the values demonstrated by the Grand Old Party have changed considerably over time – so much so it is highly unlikely that IKE or Nixon would be welcomed there…..and even Reagan’s policies would be seen to be the act of a RINO.

  26. Another letter trying to deflect responsibility from the current administration.

    LOL @ the drama

    unfathomable mists of time LMAO

    Bush falling like an Italian cruise ship captain LOL, the crew chiefs where democrats. Funny it only took 2 years of democrat control to torpedo the economy. And Obama WANTED the job.

  27. …it is highly unlikely that…

    Ideologically driven speculation…. ;)

  28. ct7- lots of class and Conservative Spin in evoking the spirit of racism and sexism. You should be ashamed of yourself. I hope TNT leaves it up so a casual browser of this blog can see what kind of person you are to routinely use such hate speech.

    Obviously you made a slur. More bigotry from the RIGHT, right ct7? Replace “network no one watches” to FOX and then Olbermann would be OK, right? Or is it just that you get nothing PERSONALLY from honest news reports without the RIGHT-WING SPIN? We all benefit from the huge amount of HONEST FACT-BASED NEWS from other outlets that do not include Conservative-Spun FOX.

    All the anti-LIBERAL warfare rhetoric coming from the RIGHT-WING SPIN MACHINES is just angry emotion attempting to trump reason. It is jealousy and envy from the RIGHT versus individual pride and responsibility. And the only people who believe any of it are the RIGHT-WING automatons who parrot it back verbatim without ever stopping to analyze it for themselves. Goes RIGHT into their ears, completely bypasses the brain, and dribbles RIGHT back out theie mouth or keyboards in this forum. Honesty and Facts are routinely ignored by the RIGHT.

    ct7- keep defending yourself. A classy move would have been a ‘Sorry, but, Yes, I ct7 do give RIGHT WINGERS a pass on those things that I criticize everyone else of doing’. But you can’t do that can you?

    Because of Right-Wing Conservative Spin the supporters of guys like Newt Gingrich are more like Stepford-Goobers than real thinking people.

  29. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Why would I have to defend myself? Your looney rant was neither offensive or interesting. You defend bigots. Your right in the world of anonymous postings.

  30. LOL concerned.

  31. ct7 Looney rant? Don’t you recognize YOUR OWN WORDS ct7? I took MOST of those phrases directly from 3 comments YOU posted on different threads, and simply changed a few words like left to right, etc. I’m not giving YOU a pass on your bigotry or CONSERVATIVE SPIN ct7.

  32. slugoxyz says:

    Already too much fighting on this stream. What I will say is while I disagree with the writer, it was very well written. Thank you for that. Vote your conscience and I will vote mine. I don’t think anyone here is seeking knowledge enough to change. Is anyone here looking for “the truth”? I don’t think you’re going to find it. The fix is already in. Think of the last election when the person who raised the most money lost. BO has a billion bucks. He’ll win. That might not be the best choice. I’m not even sure there is a good choice. Ho hum. Sorry to interupt the argument. Please continue…

  33. ManuelMartini says:

    “Your right in the world of anonymous postings.”

    My what?

    Talk about a disjointed comment that has nothing to do with the thread. I think Concerned just set record for saying nothing that made sense.

    As to Olberman, he stayed on MSNBC longer than he intended and made a bundle of money. He is one of the principles on the Board of Current.

    “Network nobody watches”. Kinda reminds me of FOX News before Murdock started pumping incredible amounts of money into it and got in bed with the Republican Party. FOX and Limbaugh are the best media that Republican money can buy. Sadly.

    As to audience – cume numbers are important, but demographics are equally important. For instance, if your large audience has the cumulative IQ of World Wrestling Entertainment, you can make money, but don’t expect to be taken seriously.

    Olberman was taken seriously enough by Bill O’Reilly that MSNBC asked him to pull his “worst person’s” schtick. It seems Bill didn’t like all the attention.

  34. ct7 at least wrote “Your looney rant was neither offensive or interesting.”

    Well, I m certainly glad he did NOT find it offensive in any way. But, I thought it should have been at least a little interesting to him, since it was made up mostly of his own words.

    Conservative Spin can be pretty boring I guess, even to the original spinner in this case.

  35. concernedtacoma7 says:

    MMnos, keep up with the conversation. That line was for your buddy.

    Muck- why would I find your twisting of my words into something that made no sense interesting? You were not creative or witty.

    First you defend racists and bigots, now, for some odd reason, Olberman, a guy no ones watches. His show was terrible, now it’s irrelevant.

  36. ct7 You are a Real Hoot!!!

    Here you are; the guy that stated you were not at all offended or found any offense whatsoever when philichi posted two comments about the Third Reich putting people on trains and transporting them to concentration camps. Then, when I satirize those bigoted and racist comments of philichi’s, you pop-opff with your self-righteous indignation and accuse me of … how did you put it … oh yah

    “Muck- lots of class evoking the spirit of the Holocaust.”

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2012/01/24/thank-you-mr-and-mrs-romney/#storylink=cpy

    Now you claim that I “defend racists and bigots” when it’s obvious to everyone that you are the one who has done and is still doing that. You gave philichi a complete pass! You ct7 are the defender of racists and bigots, not I! The proof is in these threads in your own words.

    You’re not doing a very good job of Conservative Spinning ct7. You are projecting ct7! Look in the mirror to see the one who is defending racists and bigot will you. That is where you will find him looking right back at you.

    You are not really very good at being a Conservative Spin-master ct7!

  37. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Let’s not forget your defense of the anti-Mormon rhetoric.

    Must of hit a big nerve there Muck. Instead of getting all bent out of shape defending yourself for defending off color comments, why don’t you just stop the hate filled comments.

  38. ct7 “Let’s not forget your defense of the anti-Mormon rhetoric.”

    What the heck are you talking about? Show me when I defended any anti-Morman rhetoric. I believe you are making this up.

    Spinning again ct7?

  39. ct7, Still waiting!

  40. tellnolies says:

    “Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.” Ambrose Bierce

  41. yabetchya says:

    POLITICS: Conservative spin is masterful

    POLITICS: The left spin is shortbussing.

  42. yabetchya says:

    I do believe that Obama thinks the majority of Americans are stupid..and he is right., when it comes to the gnomes. I believe that most of us can say that the Hope and Change,has CHANGED.

  43. Chilli74,
    Sorry old bean, Congress, not Presidents, repeal bills.

    And in 1999 the House and Senate were controlled by REPUBLICANS.

    Who controlled Congress during periods of big spending – That would be the fiscally conservative republicons.

    Funny how many righties clam Obama did not vote at all on so many bills.

    Sorry but we are not talking about Old Rush.

  44. POLITICS: Conservative spin is masterful = Considered “masterful” only by other Conservatives, primarily because Conservatives are very practiced at telling lies.

    POLITICS: The left spin is shortbussing = Use of the derogatory term “shortbussing” by a Conservative shows her contempt for persons who are considered liberals, and also her completely heartless disregard for individuals with disabilities. Admittedly left spin is NOT as successful as Conservative Spin, because left leaning individuals prefer to tell the truth, whereas Conservatives rarely do and thus are not constrained by any ethical boundaries.

    ct7, STILL WAITING!!!

  45. “I do believe that Obama thinks the majority of Americans are stupid..and he is right.”

    Not the “majority of Americans” Just those who support cretins like Newt Gingrich, which happens to comprise the vast majority of conservatives.

  46. FYI, the letter head states conservative spin is masterful.

  47. “Headline” instead of “letter head” and quotation marks around the quoted part might have avoided the odd sentence construction – got me imagining conservative heads spinning. Or spinning letter head. Or trying to figure out which of the 50 states are “letter head states”.

  48. Maybe its just because I haven’t had enough coffee yet this morning.

  49. yabetchya says:

    The left leaning especially on this forum, bleats their own truth, depending on how they interprets it. Not the real truth.
    Sorry I hurt your feeling about the short bus comment, but I see you ‘got’ it. I fully understand now, why you do what you do.

  50. Oh, you betcha I got you yabetchya, as the low kind of person who has a completely heartless disregard for individuals with disabilities. I can imagine what other words you might use if there weren’t monitors on this blog to delete such things. Your “spin” is not spin at all, it is simply poorly disguised juvenile insults, and that takes no talent at all.

    Real “spin” is taking a description, however bad or good, and making it work in your favor.

    Your spin yabetchya only makes you look as bad, or worse if that’s possible, than you actually are. You didn’t hurt my feelings at all. You merely confirmed my suspicions about you. You revealed your true self. Possibly the most truthful thing you have posted on these blogs.

    Your Conservative Spin is far from being Masterful. Very amateurish, in fact.


    BTW, concernedtacoma7 I am STILL WAITING!!!

  51. ManuelMartini says:

    ct7 – don’t look now, but this is an open forum. Anyone can respond to any comment.

  52. As if Muckibr has room to accuse ANYONE of juvenile insults. LMAO.

  53. “Lost in the unfathomable mists of time, which is to say three years ago, is the picture of George W. Bush falling like an Italian cruise ship captain into a waiting lifeboat and fleeing the scene while the ship of state was still in its earliest stage of distress from the catastrophic recklessness of 30 years of conservative economic policy.”

    NOW THAT’s GREAT SPIN!!! And it’s TRUE too!

  54. Funny it only took 2 years of democrat control to torpedo the economy. And Obama WANTED the job.

  55. Let’s be clear about one thing.

    George W. Bush and his cronies screwed-up the U.S. economy, and ultimately the world economy, before Dubya ran out of town and left the burning brown bag on the porch of The White House for President Obama.

  56. ct7, I am still waiting!

  57. speaking of juvenile postings…..

  58. fanciladi says:

    Annie ~ Your letter seems an overly embellished re-write of history in itself!

    What you appear to consider progress is actually, in my opinion, total regression.

  59. Fanci –

    Well, of course you do. You’re a true conservative. Don’t let me stop you from curtysing to King George.

    But I, and likely many other more progressively thinking citizens, will object when you want to reinstate voting only for white, male property owners, give voting for senators and the President back to state legislatures, herd those black folk back into their slave quarters, eliminate public education altogether (after all, it is a conservative “traditional” value that only upper class males should have an education), put women squarely back into their role of wholly subjugated “helpmate” (i.e. house slave), allow corporations to run wild, polluting at will, maintaining treacherous working conditions and paying their helpless workers just enough to maintain their obligations to the company store. It’s such a delicious dream to get back to such stalwart conservative traditional values, but I just don’t think it’s going to fly these days, Fanci.

    As far as Indians and Mexicans are concerned, well, the good old conservative tradition there is well-known, “the only good one is a dead one.” I’m doubtful that the modern sensibilities fully buy into this any longer, either.

    As to other progress that you must consider a regression, I’m sure that Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, civil rights, women’s rights, environmental rights, rights for the handicapped and disabled, gay and lesbian rights, even animal rights are high on your list for potential roll-back to the gilded age, or even better, the Middle Ages.

    Oh, and I’m sure you must be roiling inside over the dimuition of religion in our culture. Give us that “old time religion,” right? God forbid that every Joe and Jane actually be allowed to live in a
    just and moral secular society when it’s so much more fun, profitable and suitable to control for the ruling elite (i.e. white, rich, Protestant – occasionally Catholic, maybe Mormon) to force its own interpretation of ancient worldview upon the teeming masses. What could those nutty founding fathers have been thinking with all that liberty, equality and “pursuit of happiness” tripe? Surely, they had no idea what genie (now we would call it a “meme”) they were releasing!

    Why don’t you edify us on what you truly consider to be this “total regression.” Meanwhile, steer away from the history books approved by the Texas schoolbook commission, and educate yourself on the real history of America, and particularly the role of conservative ideology all the way through. You’ll find out clearly who the traitors and villains of American history have been.

    Liberty, equality, justice, pursuit of happiness… these are really meant just for you… the Tories, the Dukes and Duchesses,

  60. Annie, fanci was right about you rewriting history. Ya might want to fact check your list. Several of those achievements are the product of republicans.

  61. At times in American history Republican = LIBERAL, as in Abraham Lincoln.

    At times in American history Democrat = CONSERVATIVE, as in Andrew Jackson and George Wallace.

    You show that you have a very shallow understanding of the political movements of U.S. history.

    ALL of the items mentioned in both of my posts were vigorously and often VIOLENTLY opposed by conservative ideology of the time, right up through today, no matter which party that ideology happened to belong to at the time.

  62. aislander says:

    annier: It seems you define liberal as “everything desirable” and conservative as the opposite. You really need to read more…

  63. fanciladi says:

    @annier: Seems you are very protective of your Letter to the Editor…plus a bit demeaning to those who reply that don’t agree with you. Plus by talking down to others you didn’t gain any points!!!

    I have my opinion and I am not going to get all ‘wordy’ here; for one reason, it won’t make any difference to you or the others who agree with you. Getting all heated about this isn’t going to help!

    Hummm…7 paragraphs to my 2 sentences…interesting…

  64. It’s called spin…

  65. fanciladi says:

    A-ha……that’s the word… :)

  66. fanciladi, SORRY, but I believe annier’s take on history, in both her letter and her comments is a lot more accurate and honest than your denials. The fact that she is passionate about her beliefs in her lengthy response to your very quick and undocumented snipe, is not a negative but rather a positive argument. She proves her case again with clear historical examples. All you provided were your unfounded and unsupported opinions.

    By the way, aislander and SPeters provided NOTHING to this dialogue but pure moronic NONSENSE, as usual! And may I add, NEENER! NEENER! NEENER! (Just wanted to provide some text at a reading level both aislander and his twin soul-mate SPeters might be able to comprehend.)

  67. That’s obviously a very OBSCENE comment you have posted aislander. And this is the THIRD time I have seen you post those two words. I know what it means, as it is the English and Australian version of a very OBSCENE American slur.

    Does anyone else have a problem with aislander REPEATEDLY posting such an OBSCENE comment now for the Third time?

  68. fanciladi says:

    @muckibr…where does it say I have to put a long explanation of why I have my opinion? In the rules, it simply says:

    “We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.”

    Notice where it says keep comments ‘short’ along with other rules? Oh, and you don’t have to be sorry you don’t agree with me…that’s your right. I think we all realize that none of us is going to sway the others to our way of thinking while here…thus, why should I post a long, long explanation of why I have my opinion? 8)

  69. fanciladi, It doesn’t. You can post a short or long comment. That’s your choice. But, it doesn’t say that annier can’t provide a longer response to your short opinions. You write what you feel needs to be written, and she writes as many words as she feels she needs for her rebuttal.

    As far as the rules stating to keep the comments short, well, that’s never really been enforced as far as I know. However, I wish the TNT would enforce the rule on those people who repeatedly post obscene comments. You know what I mean?

  70. Looks like aislander is merely responding in kind. If you can’t take, quit dishin’ it.

    And speaking of obscene comments, maybe if you policed yourself a little better we would take you seriously. (you do have a history ya know)

  71. fanci, the forum rules do not apply to the leftists as they do the rest of us.

  72. fanciladi says:

    I know the rules haven’t been enforced that much except when someone has been continuously using abusive language…there are plenty of places that type of posting can be done with no problem. I know they do wait until you really go over the top with it…someone I know personally has made an exit because of that.

    I have written long involved posts before, only to be attacked for them…so, I do choose to post short ones…just how I feel about the letter writer’s content. So, I will post my ‘very quick undocumented snipe’ as you put it, muckibr rather than try to explain my opinion…saving time for everyone.

    In the last years as I have been following politics…it is very, very obvious the double standards applied to conservatives and liberals, SPeters, in media and more. Those who say they don’t see it are either blind or they are lying!

    This one wasn’t a very short comment… :/

  73. fanciladi, I am afraid my choice of using the word snipe was probably not the best choice or word I could have used. Because you mentioned it in you last post I’ve looked it up, and found this…

    snipe |snīp|
    verb [ intrans. ]
    • make a sly or petty verbal attack : the state governor constantly sniped at the president | [as n. ] ( sniping) there has been some sniping about inept leadership.

    I really did not mean to say I thought your comment was petty or attacking. Just that it was very short, and yes, not documented by any other supporting info. Not all comments need to be documented, but when you challenge someone else’s facts, I think it’s better to do so by providing counter-facts that you believe prove theirs wrong.

    As far as the word goes, perhaps I should have chosen better and used something like snippet,

    snippet |ˈsnipit|
    a small piece or brief extract : snippets of information about the war.

    or just said “short” in my comment.

    I apologize for my comment seeming overly critical. It really was not meant that way.

  74. fanciladi says:

    @muckibr…thanks for your comment and explanation.

    Emotions get heated here at times…I guess I could say most of the time. I really don’t want to get caught up in that…and it’s easier to get caught up than to stay out of it.

  75. Thank you for understanding fanciladi, and say “Hey!” to your Marine for me. Have a nice evening!

  76. cute…..aislander writes the equivalent to “bugger off” which is the equivalent to “f… off”

    Such a wordsmith!

  77. And, aislander has used those same words before on other threads, at least twice.

    And the TNT monitors have removed those comments before.

    So, that make him a REPEAT OFFENDER.

    And it seems to me the rules are pretty clear about repeat offenders.

    I HOPE people are FLAGging that OBSCENE comment so that the TNT can take care of it.

  78. fanciladi says:

    Will say “Hey” to Marine…I forgot I mentioned that before and you must have a better memory than I do… :)

  79. aislander says:

    I try to give comments and commenters the responses they have earned and deserve…

  80. aislander says:

    To paraphrase ehill’s favored riposte: If you can’t effectively refute the message, tattle to the board monitor to have the messenger banned.

    But that goes along with your whole hall-monitor persona, doesn’t it?

    Pretty weak, muck…

  81. Just following the RULES aislander. Just following the RULES.

  82. aislander says:

    So does the hall monitor. The difference: most hall monitors are not self-appointed–unless they have a pesky psychosis, of course…

  83. … and a pocket protector.

  84. equivalent Ah, so we have two self appointed hall monitors.

    Thanks you two, for your ongoing parody of the leftwing hysteria points. I enjoy the laugh. :)

  85. Conservative Spin is NOT so Masterful when they have to admit that the spin they spun was a lie, as the Gingrich camp now has done.

    POLITICS | JANUARY 26, 2012
    Conservative group at odds with Rush over Newt’s attacks on ‘liberal’ media

    “Interestingly enough: The Gingrich camp now admits their candidate was less than truthful in his memorable South Carolina debate tirade –and in a follow-up interview with CNN– about who, exactly, he offered to ABC to refute the story. You may recall that he claimed to have offered sources to ABC News and that ABC News wasn’t interested. He was lying.”

    “CNN reported yesterday, Thursday, that after “persistent” questions on the topic, Gingrich spokesman R-C Hammond now says the only people the campaign offered to ABC were the former House speaker’s two daughters, Jackie Cushman and Kathy Gingrich Lubbers, who regularly appear on the campaign trail and who wrote a letter to ABC News defending their father –a letter widely circulated in the media.”

    “Sounded like a lot more, the way Gingrich sold it in that debate, no?”


  86. So…is marine no longer a verbotten word on this site? I miss him – he had more of a sense of humor than some of you sod-busters.

  87. beerBoy, That was fixed on January 14th.

    “Sometime ago, we banned a user named “MARINE.” We didn’t know that this would block the word “marine” from being used. We fixed that particular problem.”

  88. fanciladi says:

    Oh, so that is why some of my posts mentioning the word Marine wouldn’t post…haven’t used it for a while and I was really using it to express something about Disabled Marine Veterans…so I gave up on it… Thanks……puzzle solved……..

  89. hansgruber says:

    ManuelMartini says:
    Jan. 26, 2012 at 9:30 am OK…let me see if I get this.
    If Bush was president, the debt is Obama’s fault for voting it in.
    If Obama is president, the debt is Obama’s fault.
    A quick check of the ownership of the Telegraph will explain why they are anti-Obama.

    What I said was when a person(s) (Obama, Biden & Hillary when they were senators) help create this propblem (Large National Debt) by voting in favor of it and then complain they “inherited” it is just plain wrong. They helped create it. It’s not just their fault, but they own a piece of it.

    BTW here is basically the same article in Reuters if you don’t like the UK’s Telegraph Trashy paper

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