Letters to the Editor

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CONGRESS: Someone slept during civics class

Letter by Ginger Weaver, Tacoma on Dec. 28, 2011 at 1:40 pm with 92 Comments »
December 28, 2011 1:45 pm

The letter writer (TNT, 12-28) proposing we throw all of Congress out and begging for eight-year term limits must have been dozing during his high school civics class.

Senate terms are six years each, so eight-year limits would be tricky. Besides, we do have term limits; they’re called elections.

I do not want this sleepy student telling me who I can and cannot vote in for Congress. Should we, for example, throw out Sen. Patty Murray, who has gone to the mat on behalf of disabled veterans?

Leave a comment Comments → 92
  1. fbergford says:

    As a veteran myself, YES! She has been in office way too long (going on 20+ years now). You cannot have fresh ideas if you keep putting the same people in place to govern. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. It will not happen if we keep putting the same people in office!

  2. hansgruber says:

    I would say yes because she went to Washington to balence the budget and reduce the national debt (it was only 4 Trillion in 1994) which she hasn’t done.

  3. BlaineCGarver says:

    She has been wonderful for vets….and horribly socialist on everything else, anti-gun, and has been there too long. Throw her out and let’s get some new blood. I would be happy if we could toss them all out and start over by pulling names out of a hat. Ya could do a lot worse (look what we have now)

  4. alindasue says:

    All of you who think Patty Murry has been in office too long have the option of voting for someone else in the next election. If enough people vote for someone else, her term will be “limited” at the ballot box.

    The fact that she’s been in office a long time shows that enough people like her that she keeps being re-elected. Just because you personally don’t like her, doesn’t necessarily mean that others feel the same. When they do, then they too will vote for someone else.

  5. Fibonacci says:

    Have you noticed that for the right wingers, only what THEY want counts? The gripe about both state and national democrats, with their “throw the socialists out” but forget that more people voted for them than voted for the conservative, but somehow that does not matter. I hope the Republikans nominate a super conservatve for president, because for every stop further to the right their candidatge is, it is one step further from getting elected. The majority of the country is in the MIDDLE!!!

  6. ReadNLearn says:

    Patty Murray, the one who is on youtube saying that Osama bin Laden provided day care for working Moms in Afghanistan and set up schools for girls?

    That Patty Murray?


  7. concernedtacoma7 says:

    The country is moving farther to left everyday due to democratic rhetoric promising freebies to the masses.

    The truth is, with a few exceptions, republicans are closer to the center 2-4 years ago then dems today. 2010 is proof.

    The slide of this nation to the far left is scary to many people, hence the increased activism on both sides. Class warfare, defunct govt, extreme waste, no leadership. Difference is dems want to double down on failure (and debt) while conservatives want to slow down the madness and get back to our core values as a nation. Individual responsibility and small govt.

  8. Concenered,
    The only things the republicons have been near the center of for the last 11 years in sell of American Jobs to overseas companies, subsidizing mega corporations, and increasing welfare for the rich.

  9. Please, everyone register and vote. Register for a political party! Attend the party conventions! Vote for a candidate. There is absolutely nothing that compels you to stay home.

    fbergford: Maybe you should, as a disabled veteran, start reading and researching some of the proposals coming out of Capitol Hill as relates to veterans’ benefits and care. You want fresh ideas! They’re there! I doubt an disabled veteran will want to vote in some of the anti veteran changes being proposed. Just read some of the columns concerning changes to active duty and military retires, as well as civilian/social security retirees, being proposed and they’re even being proposed by Democrats.

    Frankly, I continue to vote for Patty Murray until a better choice for disabled veterans comes along.

  10. islandernwly says:

    @ ReadNLearn
    Unfortunately people who take remarks out of context to promote their own agenda become less and less believable.

    Dec. 2002

    she attempted to explain why the US had such problems winning hearts and minds in the Muslim world, and how bin Laden had garnered support among some in the Middle East. Among other things, she had stated that bin Laden has “been out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building daycare facilities, building health care facilities, and the people are extremely grateful. He’s made their lives better. We have not done that.”

    She was also one of 21 Democrats who votes against the War Authorization Act to invade Iraq.

    Mr. President, if we do take action in Iraq, there is no doubt that our armed forces will prevail. We will win a war with Iraq decisively, and, God willing, we will win it quickly. But what happens after the war? That will have as big an impact on our future peace and security. Will we be obligated to rebuild Iraq? If so, how? Our economy is reeling, our budget is in deficit, and we have no estimate of the cost of rebuilding. And with whom?

    I may not agree with everything she does but she was right on in both speeches.

  11. scott0962 says:

    If our politicians aren’t doing the job we want them to do we have only ourselves to blame for re-electing them in spite of their poor performance. That’s why we have elections and if the system that served our nation well for over 200 years doesn’t seem to be working now it’s our fault, not the system.

    As for Senator Murray, I’ll have to respectfully disagree with the letter writer. Senator Murray is part of the problem, as witnessed by her stint on the debt super committee which achieved nothing.

  12. concernedtacoma7 says:

    A32- you are encouraging people to vote for her due to one small special interest (and I am a veteran).

    Since she is a big govt, tax and spend liberal where are the funds going to come from in this day and age? Ok, one more special tax on the rich. When do we draw the line? When do we hold them accountable to the reality of debt woes?

    Taking care of vets sounds good on paper, but truth be told there already a lot of programs. Funding additional ones is where the argument gets weak.

    The short term solutions to individual problems may buy votes, but they are putting us all in poorhouse.

  13. LibertyBell says:

    President Washington thought two terms were too many, of course this veteran would have had Patty Murray in front of a firing squad, like most of the traitors to the American cause.

  14. LibertyBell says:

    Weakened Minds, “DID” sleep through Civics Class, including quite a few veterans.

    “…The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts…”

    George Washington’s Farewell Address

  15. harleyrider1 says:

    I too am a Veteran and yes, Patty should go. She forgot about reigning in spending – which is why she was elected in the first place.

    She has totally gotten lost in spend, spend, spend.

  16. bigredone says:

    Please, everyone register and vote. Register for a political party! Attend the party conventions! Vote for a candidate. There is absolutely nothing that compels you to stay home

    I totally disagree with this part of the post. I DO NOT register with a party. I prefer to think of myself as an independent person. The problem with this process is, unless you regicster with a party you get no say in the primary process. If you do register with a party you only get a say with regards to the candidates from the party you register with.

    I say we vote for the individual not the party candidate. Let us ALL choose in the primary as well as the general election like we used to be able to do.

  17. Libertybell – Washington thought two terms as President was ENOUGH, not too much.

    Bigredone – I agree, which is why I am not registered with any party.
    I also wonder why WE the taxpayers have to foot the bill for preference primaries.

  18. All this talk about throwing out Sen. Patty Murray is meaningless rhetoric without providing a suitable replacement. The object is to vote for the best candidate. Put up or shut up!

  19. They should all be thrown out, or at least made to run for a new limited term. Limit of two terms for Senators and three for Representatives. You’re already told who you can vote for one way or another. Term limits are needed, desperately. Term limits were put in for the President to stop anyone after FDR from getting elected more than twice. It’s time Congress had a similar restraint.

    Oh and no retirement for elected officials.

  20. “reigning in spending”

    Where was this rhetoric when George Bush and Friends were filling the pockets of their friends in the arms business while running two wars and cutting taxes at the same time?

  21. Patty Murray has not committed an crimes as a traitor. LibertyBell is a classic TEA Party sound machine that babbles on about things that are false or make no sense. Next we’ll get blessed with LB’s lack of constitutional law knowledge.

  22. “Please, everyone register and vote. Register for a political party!”

    We don’t register by party in the State of Washington

  23. tarantulagirl1 says:

    Thank god we had term limits when Reagan was president.

    Veterans seem to think they get extra credit, but they do not. We taxpayers paid their salaries and subsidize the PX. Those who were under fire, and especially disabled, are heroic. The ones who sat on their butts in the U.S. or Germany in front of a typewriter or computer should quit bragging.

    Senator Murray is sticking up for the soldiers damaged or disabled in war.

  24. Murigen,
    Yes, let’s see how Congress likes ‘private retirement accounts!’
    Bet you there would be some new, meaningful regulations for Wall Street.

    Nice try sweetheart, but there were no term limits under Reagan or any other President (except for the Presidential limit of two terms).
    Veterans, peacetime or not, wounded or not, do get extra credit on hiring for federal positions.
    Something tells me you are not a veteran.

  25. Nice try sweetheart,term limits under Reagan or any other President (except for the Presidential limit of two terms).

    Bwaaahahahah Ooohhh man.

  26. LMAO

    limit of two terms — term limit — limit of two terms — term limit

    I haven’t laughed like that for a while… and tarantulagirl is on YOUR side xring.

  27. Spiderweb says:

    Really? You didn’t get that tarantulagirl was thankful King Ronnie the forgetful was limited to two terms?

    Looks like she gets to laugh at you two geniuses now.

  28. That’s what I was pointing out ;)

  29. And xring was pointing out that there was no term limits in Congress during the Reagan era.

    I’m surprised that “amjim” didn’t comprehend that.

  30. tarantulagirl1 says:

    Of course there were no congressional term limits during the Reagan administration. Duh. But there have been presidential term limits since FDR’s administration. If there weren’t, Clinton (and his massive surpluses) would still be in office.

    No, I’m not a veteran. I just pay their salaries. Funny that no injured and disabled vets seem to be whining on this blog.

  31. So, now we have concrete evidence that some folks have consumed sooo much koolaid they don’t see the comedy in the statement…

    “there were no term limits under Reagan or any other President (except for the Presidential limit of two terms)”

    STILL LMAO… (I would say ‘unbelievable’ … except… well, you get the picture.

  32. bobcat1a says:

    Term limits require a Constitutional Amendment. If you want that start collecting signatures to get a special convention or lobby your representative and senator.

  33. tarantulagirl…no it’s people like you, who haven’t served either in the front lines or behind a desk, who should stop whining. Don’t even say thank you cause we know you don’t mean it.

  34. klthompson says:

    During Murray’s time in the Senate she has moved from the lady in tennis shoes to a reported net worth near a million dollars. Opinions aside as to her relative intelligence public “service” is extremely rewarding in office and in retirement. In addition she, and her contemporaries, are allowed to use insider information to make investments to further pad their net worth. If I did the same thing I would be looking at time in jail.

  35. Excellent point klt.

  36. took14theteam says:

    Patty ran against the establishment and won in 93. Since then, she has become the establishment. A first class hypocrite. Yet the sheep of this state keep sending her back. She can’t even get our sales tax deduction permanent, while the other states with income taxes don’t have to worry if their deduction will be there year after year. Hell, I would vote for another DemocRat over her next time.

  37. FYI, I will no longer be posting under the screen name amjim. A troll has decided it would be cute to create a look-a-like screen name amijim , and the staff apparently believes that behavior is acceptable.

  38. These changing screen names are such a pain.

  39. took14theteam says:

    Remember, your buddy RW_nos said you don’t need to know who is who, just “debate” the topic….

    Tongue in check by the way.

    (you never know when I might have to change, not that it will concern you anyway)

  40. amiJames says:

    They sure are bb!

  41. took14theteem says:

    No, you are kardnos.

  42. took14theteem says:

    Who are you?

  43. took14theteem says:

    You don’t need to know who is who.

  44. took14theteem says:

    Patty Murray is a first class Senator.

  45. SCORPION says:

    yes bb, some are ‘changed’ because of fire and wall issues, and spam is distasteful no matter how much Tabasco sauce you put on it. Legitimate…

    The rest are added, same olde tactics, same olde techniques, applied here to destroy, disrupt and dismantel a discussion board. (I couldn’t help myself ;))

    Notice who the imposters are and what side of the sandbox they have historically play in. Look to the other side of the sandbox for the imposter. I’d be careful who I’d call friend from over there bearBoy.

    Your BFF, SCORPOIN ;)


  46. When I first started posting here there were many references to a “Sybil” who, it seemed, suffered from multiple virtual personality disorder as her many versions of herself would take strong opposing views to each other and would dominate threads with their debate and insults.

    I miss the pre-information technology days when you could tell who the crazy people were because they were talking loudly to themselves – now they are just using a bluetooth cell phone.

  47. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Apparently, Ginger not only sleep-walked through the last Senatorial election in this state, but she slept through the civics lesson where the topic was Constitutional Amendments.

  48. Oh boy, this flu bug has really got me down.

  49. It must be really annoying to have someone pester you with similar names. I know I find it annoying that someone thinks it is amusing to do so – and I am not being targeted.

    Almost as annoying as having someone keep an ongoing file of all my posts so he can partially quote them out of context in an ongoing ad hominem crusade.

    Bottom line – the Imposter pseudonyms are annoying but it couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy.

  50. yabetchya says:

    I wonder bB, what is(your) the problem, as a teacher you ought to know that research is important,,,,,even in the Arts department.
    Just because you don’t like your own words comming back and biting you in your rear you think it is okay for one to highjack anothers moniker?
    I think it is amusing when he can call anyone out on their hyprocicy.(Me included) Maybe you who complain should have a file on your self so you can keep tract of what you say, insults, poor grammer and bad spelling, false facts.

  51. yabetchya says:

    I wonder bB, what is(your) the problem, as a teacher you ought to know that research is important,,,,,even in the Arts department.
    Just because you don’t like your own words comming back and biting you in your rear you think it is okay for one to highjack anothers moniker? How about.. beerB0y (as an example)
    I think it is amusing when he can call anyone out on their hyprocicy.(Me included) Maybe you who complain should have a file on your self so you can keep tract of what you say, insults, poor grammer and bad spelling, false facts.

  52. took14 – remember the fun that you had cloning OId Lefty?

  53. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Tgirl- thank Newt for those surpluses.

    You seem to forget the tech bubble explosion, the recession, and 9/11. All three can be traced to your buddy Bill C, an would have occurred even if he had a 3rd term.

    Enjoy your freedom and security. I see no whining from servicemen here, only people discontent with the big spender in office.

  54. yebetchya says:

    because you don’t like your own words comming back and

    s/b ====================== coming

    biting you in your rear you think it is okay for one to highjack

    anothers moniker? How about.. beerB0y (as an example)

    s/b = another’s

    I think it is amusing when he can call anyone out on their hyprocicy.

    s/b ================================= hypocrisy

    (Me included) Maybe you who complain should have a file on your

    self so you can keep tract of what you say, insults, poor grammer

    s/b =============================== grammar

    and bad spelling, false facts.

    Oh gosh oh gee, I am such a bad smeller!!!

    s/b ================= speller

  55. yebetchya says:

    Forgot one!

    self so you can keep tract of what you say, insults, poor grammer

    s/b ==========track

    I just smell so badly!!

    s/b == spell

    Well? I smell bad is correct to.

    s/b ============= too

  56. muckiibr says:

    Now we have another imposter?

    Come on people!!!

    Grow up!!!

  57. It wasn’t me!

  58. took14theteam says:

    remember the fun that you had cloning OId Lefty?

    No I don’t remember the fun when Old Lefty was cloned because it wasn’t me that did it. Check with your former buddy backwards cedar. I think it was about this time last year that r a d e c hit the scene exposing you for what you are.

    I do remember you telling the story when you had switched to First Lefty or something like that. That was when I was naive and thought we could actually have a conversation. However, as the year went on, I realized who and what you really are and I am glad others came to the same realization also.

    Enjoy your bout with the flu. I hope it is a gastrointestinal flu just for you….

    Oh, have a Happy New Year…

  59. No I’m not.

  60. yabetchya says:

    To the one who is the one who thinks he can be anyone. What a distressed obnoxious, friendless life of misery you must live in your abnormal idiosyncratic existence. Your masquerade’s just goes to show how much of a wannabe you are.

  61. took14theteam says:

    K whatever RW. You can believe what you want if that makes you happy. I guess it is between my god and your, um, spaghetti monster…

  62. “Some people with OCD perform compulsive rituals because they inexplicably feel they have to…”

    I’m thinking that keeping archives of alleged quotes from a newspaper comment thread would qualify.

  63. took14 – OK, I’m sorry. I was wrong.

    You lie good.

  64. “Spaghetti Monster” would require “belief”.

  65. yabetchya says:


  66. WOW! Obsession comes in so many forms.

    There is a dock – it belongs to the community, not me – the lake is private, having no public launch – and yes, I pay a little over $2,200 a year in property taxes.

    I would think that someone who is so obsessed could navigate the county assessor’s website, complete with public information about taxes and a geodata map.

    I’m honored to know that I take up so much brain space when you have so little to share.

  67. K?

  68. took14theteam says:


    Enjoy your last few hours of 2011.

    2012 is going to be a doozy (in general, nothing personal, ok ;-) ).

  69. You, too.

    Thanks for leaving your virtual footprint on my website. :)

  70. klthompson says:

    I must be the only one with the courage to use my real name. Pseudonyms really detract from the message. Think about it if you can.

  71. K_Y !

    My “partner” and I would die without it. He prefers the warming blend.

  72. “thank Newt for those surpluses”

    I’ll take “Revisionist history” for $100, Alex.

  73. alindasue says:


    I also post with my real name.

    I long ago quit trying to keep track of all the changes in pseudonyms in these forums. It really doesn’t matter since I am here to debate issues, not personalities.

    I posted earlier in this thread, but quit when the conversation deviated from the main topic, which is the question of whether term limits are necessary or not. I will not be returning to this thread until the conversation steers back onto the topic.


    To everyone here, may the new year be a good one for you no matter what your current pen-name or political persuasion may be.

    Alinda Sue

  74. Good Grief. I can’t decide whether to be put out with or embarrassed for those whose self-indulgence on this thread has been so blatant. Pretty sad.

  75. Pacmsn33 says:

    sozo, be put-out or embarrassed, so what. nobody cares what YOU feel with YOU blatant self-indulgence.

  76. I am aware that my opinion is of little interest. It’s clear that the only thing most people posting here are interested in is the sound of their own voice.

    Carry on.

  77. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Wow. We’re going to need a few name changes after this thread.

  78. Pacman33 says:

    Any independents, fence-sitters and swing-voters out there, please be sure to note the deplorable and pathetic actions that have hijacked these conversations, are the actions of a sad individual who represents the left.

    Is this the type of person you would like to be associated with?

  79. amJames says:

    That’s an understatement Pacman.

  80. Being independent means one is free to support or oppose individual issues rather than being told how to vote by party bosses.

    FYI – Our Founding Fathers preferred and supported this concept and saw nothing wrong with two people be on opposite sides of one issue, but on the same side on another.

    Sadly that did not last past Washington’s first term.

  81. he who smelt it, dealt it

  82. beerBoy says:

    a sad individual who represents the left.

    Wow….the “left” is represented by one individual??!!?? When was that election held?

  83. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    I would cross party lines and vote for RW. And besides, with so many screen names (e.g. Kardnos, Old Lefty, Judas Escargot, Nick Dixon, alias ad-infinitum) Larry represents many more than just “one individual“ here, no?

    No finer representative on this board, bB.

  84. ‘Eurocentric’
    amJames, you must remember Aislander is the Mistress of $3 Words and gets testy when anyone use one it doesn’t understand.

  85. If one person represents the left, then I choose Timothy McVeigh to represent everyone on the right. Such a nice, clean-cut young man.

  86. That certainly quieted things down a bit

  87. amJames says:

    Welcome, X6. Great to see newcomers. I look forward to your thoughtful contributions.

    Correlation does not equal causation.
    Perhaps it’s quiet because the action has moved elsewhere.
    fire them all

  88. Is eurocentric a big word? Seriously?

  89. You think a “$3″ word is a big word? Seriously?

  90. Re eurocentric, that was the implication in xring’s comment, though now that I re-read it, it’s pretty confusing. So, how much DOES a big word cost? More than three bucks?

  91. ‘a three dollar word’ = slang for a fancy word used to sound intelligent.

  92. A delayed post for Tgirl who said Presidential turn limits have been around since FDR’s time.

    FDR died in 1945

    The presidential term limit proposal was introduced to Congress in 1947.

    22nd Amendment became part of the Constitution in 1951.

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