Letters to the Editor

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HOLIDAYS: Don’t fear saying ‘Merry Christmas’

Letter by Theresa Clark, Puyallup on Dec. 21, 2011 at 11:16 am with 104 Comments »
December 21, 2011 12:02 pm

The uproar about wishing people “Merry Christmas” is absurd. Christmas is not a dead tradition tenuously held together by mere sentimentality, but a living heritage that embodies the best strengths within humanity. And no one has to be overtly religious to reap the social and emotional benefits of the season.

Christmas means love, warmth, hospitality and giving. Christmas calls forth generosity, compassion and cheerfulness. Such traits also call upon us for courage to reach out in extra measure. That courage also justifies respect for the phrase “Merry Christmas.”

If we reject saying “Merry Christmas” altogether, will we not also risk the eventual degeneration of all that Christmas entails? Instead of love, warmth, hospitality and giving, will we prefer hate, coldness, rejection and stinginess? Instead of generosity, compassion and cheerfulness, will we prefer avarice, mean-spiritedness and a sour attitude? Instead of courage that reaches across all political, religious and socio-economic lines, will we choose the servility born of fear?

We must show courage, cheer and goodwill during this time of national crisis. We must summon the best things within ourselves, because a bigger issue is at stake.

What kind of people do Americans want to be? Are we a nation of virtue or a nation of vice?

 

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  1. igotdabombfool says:

    Merry Christmas!!

  2. Once more, someone designates their religious conviction as “good” and others as “evil”

    Or “virtue” and “vice”, as the case may be.

    Let me guess – “Jesus loves me” and you’ll “pray for me”

  3. BlaineCGarver says:

    RW98512 says:Once more, someone designates their religious conviction as “good” and others as “evil”
    Or “virtue” and “vice”, as the case may be.
    Let me guess – “Jesus loves me” and you’ll “pray for me”

    Yes. If nothing else, why poop on someone’s parade? I respond in kind to all that wish me happiness, whatever brandname it comes under. Grow up.

  4. BlaineCGarver –

    You fail to recognize the difference between me not being offended for being wished “Merry Christmas” (which I’m not) and the letter writer stipulating that wishing “Merry Christmas’ is the equivilant to saving our American society and that her religious rhetoric is superior to others thoughts and considerations.

    You were too busy attemping to insult me with your “grow up” to see the reality of the issue. Might I suggest that you practice what you preach?

    Possibly if Christians acted more like Jesus, they would run into less confrontation.

  5. LarryFine says:

    I’m not offended either way. Merry Christmas !

  6. old_benjamin says:

    The letter write said nothing about religion at all. She merely called attention to the good will associated with the season. Lighten up, Scrooge. It’s time for mistletoe and holly.

  7. Old Benjamin – the letter referred to a topic about not wishing “Merry Christmas”.

    In one forum, Conservatives say it’s a Christian slogan and protect its use because “we are a Christian nation” and now you want to claim the subject is not about religion?

    Consistancy is not your strong suit, huh?

  8. RW98512

    I think the letter writer made a clear distinction between what she considered “virtues and vices”. No “others” (people)were mentioned unless you take it as implied. Even then, it would be the “others” that preferred the “vices”.

    Virtues: Love, warmth, hospitality, giving, generosity, compassion and cheerfulness.
    Vices: Hate, coldness, rejection, stinginess, avarice, mean-spiritedness and a sour attitude.

    The vast majority of people would consider these “virtues and vices” as such. Your response to the letter implies you do not. I hope that is not the case.

    Merry Christmas

  9. Merry Christmas, Mick. I’m certain that you sincerely wish that I have a merry holiday season and that you weren’t being sarcastic.

    The letter writer refers to the Christian holiday and the alleged desire by some to eliminate the rhetorical phrase that comes with it. This letter is tied in with the other two and the subsequent discussions. Why deny it?

    According to the writer, the Christian holiday is virtuous, love, warmth, giving, et al. The opposite (which one would logically conclude to be those that allegedly desire to eliminate said phrase), she refers to as “vice”.

    I suggest you look up the religious references to “virtue” and “vice” and refrain from the denial of what has been a pattern for millenia.

    My response to the letter was the detection of someone soft pedaling the same old superiority message that wears on the senses of those not addicted to religious dogma

    Now, on the other hand, if you think that the letter writer was intimating that the mean-spiritedness of the Conservative movement should cease during Christmas season and allow the President an opportunity to visit his place of birth, without castigation and contempt, I guess I’d owe you both and apology.

    Or we could make a bet…..

  10. surething says:

    Here we go again……..

  11. And Merry Christmas to you, Mick.

    I’m not buying your analysis, but nice try anyway.

  12. bobcat1a says:

    Who objects to Merry Christmas? I say it all the time and never have heard a discouraging word. I even say it to all my students while in school (gasp) and have never been punished. Somebody has been listening too much to Fox News.

  13. concernedtacoma7 says:

    RW- how does it feel to walk around with so much anger and hate? The author mentions only the joy of the season, and you take offense.

    You have no educated response to a well thought out letter, and choose the low road.

    Sorry to all that I bit the bait, but his message needs to be addressed.

    Merry Christmas.

  14. None of the letters or posts have cited one specific incident where anyone is preventing anyone from celebrating Christmas in the manner in which they prefer.

    I guess, borrowing from the Burning Man Festival, there is an O’Reilly inspired new tradition of burning the strawman for Advent.

  15. Micklw, Not bad-mouthing your list of virtues and vices, just want to point out that they are common to all religions, most secular philosophies, and atheists.

    Bobcat, even non-Christian students appreciate Christmas Break, if for no other reason they are out of school for a few days.
    My wife displays Charlie Brown’s Christmas tree in her class room and has also yet to receive a complaint.

  16. It’s Hanukkah. Christmas is Sunday. Happy Hanukkah!

  17. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    RW, “tonight you will be visited by three spirits“ (and we are not taking beer, wine and whiskey here) – good luck with that.

    FWIW, I believe the spirits are JudasEscargot (ghost of Kardy past), NickDixon (ghost of Kardy present), and BannedForLife (ghost of Ground Hogs Day Kardy future).

    Merry Christmas from the Cratchits!

  18. “RW- how does it feel to walk around with so much anger and hate?”

    Ah yes, the old “anger and hate” slogan. Put that one in the list with “Jesus loves you” and “I’ll pray for you”

  19. I’ve always had one issue with Christmas….This time of year, people bring out their “random acts of kindness” and concern for their neighbor, and some semblance of politeness…….

    But, just watch what happens beginning January 2nd……..Its right back to “up yours, and me first” until the following December….

    Of course there ARE plenty of people who do the “up yours and me first” ALL year……Haaa! Maybe those are the ATHEISTS!!!

    Just seems a bit sad, that people cant hang on to the Christmas cheer ALL year.

    (Yes! Forgive me, I said Christmas Cheer….not to be insensitive or leave anyone out, but Holiday Happy, just doesn’t have the same ring to it!!)

  20. Dcr – being a person very involved in community service charities, I can tell you about the “year long”.

    The Evangelical Christians, who invented the War Against Christmas along with Bill O’Reilly, are not the people who put in tireless hours in the community. They are too busy posturing for their constituents at church.

  21. Last night and this morning…depending on the time zone… tis Solstice!! Blessed Yule!

  22. xring, You are correct and that is what I meant with my statement “The vast majority of people”.
    Given that, I don’t know who those “others are evil” are that RW bemoans unless they are the ones who prefer the vices over the virtues.
    We all have our virtues and vices. Hopefully the virtues greatly outnumber the vices, not only at Christmas time, but all year long.

  23. RW, are you long and skinny and green? Something about you seems very familiar.

    The leap you made here is beyond “giant” and it does indeed reveal something terribly askew in your thinking. It’s as if you were responding to a different letter altogether.

    As for Christmas cheer disappearing after Christmas, I guess it all depends on the folks you hang out with. I personally see this sort of generosity and charity year round in my community. It is a way of life for many. Those who dispute this perhaps need to reconsider with whom you spend your time!

    P.S. RW, Jesus DOES love you and he even loves me.

  24. sozo –

    You, also, are welcome to your analysis. I’m not buying your’s either.

    I’ll take Concerned’s approach, opposed to the doublespeak of the letter writer.

    As a black friend of mine said “I don’t mind the KKK. I know what to expect from them”

  25. Why do certain people stand so strong against wishing “Happy Holidays”, thus offending no one?

    Answer that question and you’ll see the writer’s intent.

  26. Because, for many, keeping the Christ in Christmas is central to the season. Your vitriolic cynicism notwithstanding RW, thousands of people around you are rejoicing at the birth and life of Jesus Christ. If it floats your boat, say whatever you like or say nothing at all. As for your black friend’s remark, it’s understandable…and has nothing to do with Christians wanting folks to leave them to their Christ-centered holy day.

    More to the point, your reading between the lines of this letter is sad. They say that sometimes one is paranoid because somebody REALLY is out to get them. Your paranoia, on the other hand…well they may have meds for that.

  27. “vitriolic cynicism”

    Vitriolic is defined as “expressing bitter hatred: filled with or expressing extreme bitterness and hatred toward somebody or something”

    I knew it wouldn’t take long for the real Christian to surface.

    and then there is “Your paranoia, on the other hand…well they may have meds for that.”

    Now THAT is Christianity, folks. Peace on Earth, Goodwill to Men.

  28. Geez! Who would have thought that the mere suggestion of saying “Merry Christmas” would bring out such anger, and even hate-talk, from so many people just on this thread alone?

    There are a lot of really mean-spirited words here, and from people who say they are Christians no less. Not a very Christian thing to do.

    As I would have all of you wish me a Merry Christmas, then I wish you all a very Merry Christmas. If you have an issue with the words “Merry Christmas” or even just the Christ in Christmas, I’m sorry about that. Happy Holidays then. But please, don’t vent your anger and hate at me. I didn’t do that to you.

  29. muckibr – I’m glad that all you got out of this was someone trying to “wish Merry Christmas”. It seemed pretty evident right from “The uproar about wishing people “Merry Christmas” is absurd” demonstrated an agenda, related to the other two threads.

    Being honest on the intellectual side, the ones that have made the biggest fuss about the issue of “Merry Christmas” are Christians, led by Bill O’Reilly because he has ratings to work on, as well as merchandise to sell.

    Frankly, the issue annoys the heck out of me because (1)I think every kid in choir should learn Handel’s Messiah for the value of the musical experience, not the biblical lyrics (2)I’m not Atheist but because I don’t agree with the Evangelicals, I’m branded as such, which is exactly what they are complaining about in reverse (3)the value of this continued “war” does nothing for creating unity and it seems the Christian element would prefer it that way.

    I didn’t think one iota about “Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc, until the letters to the editor – starting with Lyle’s which sought to provoke.

    Every year this is like a bar room brawl where a Christian throws the first punch and crawls out the back door to watch the fray while denying being part of the problem.

    Just read back over the threads and you’ll see the issue is simple.

  30. Don’t worry RW… I knew, and know, there’s a lot more here that meets the eye.

    And, I think you know, after reading my posts, particularly as regards Christianity, that I am not your typical Christian. Certainly I am no evangelical, because, and I hate to say this, a lot of them actually hate me for my views. They, being Christians (supposedly) are not supposed to hate, period.

    Anyway, I was kind of making a point in my own way, and maybe I missed the mark. But, I assure you, I see the underlying currents here on this and other similar threads, and it worries me.

  31. Your vitriol, RW, I was talking about YOUR vitriol. You seem to have a boatload of it towards a certain segment of the Christian population. As for the comment about meds, I was serious. I’d suggest the same thing to a friend who had revealed the anger and paranoia you’ve herein revealed.

  32. I am glad that I know people from many faiths and traditions from all over the world. I tend to like to be around people who exude “love, warmth, hospitality and giving”.

    I am glad that I can answer the letter writer with a resounding, “NO!” when she asks: “will we prefer hate, coldness, rejection and stinginess” if people don’t say “Merry Christmas”.

    And, I’ve seen too much “avarice, mean-spiritedness and a sour attitude” from people who do say “Merry Christmas” (some even who have posted on this thread) to know that it isn’t a defining issue for that behavior.

    Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it, and to all, Happy Holidays and Peace.

  33. The NRA’s website says “Happy Holidays”….are we to assume that they have been taken over by “Christ haters”?

    Sheesh……why do some folks need someone to bash during a season that is supposed to be about peace and love? If someone wishes you “Happy Holidays” accept it as a good thing. And….whenever you say “Merry Christmas” or “God bless you” or “I’ll pray for you” with a vindictive sneer you aren’t fooling anyone…..especially your god.

  34. Here sozo – fetch this “vitriol”:

    Sarah Palin Slams White House Christmas Card

    Sarah Palin has no holiday cheer for the latest holiday greeting card to come from the White House.

    The former Alaska governor focused her ire on the fact that the card does not mention the word “Christmas” and focuses on Bo, the First Dog, sitting by a fireplace.

    The inside of the card reads, “From our family to yours, may your holidays shine with the light of the season.” It also features the presidential seal.

    The front has Bo lying next to a fireplace. There is holiday greenery over the fireplace mantle and presents underneath a poinsettia on a table, but no Christmas tree.

    “It’s odd,” Palin told FOX News Radio , asking why the card focuses on the dog instead of traditions like “family, faith and freedom.”

    “Even stranger than that was his first year in office when the Christmas ornaments included Chairman Mao,” she said. “People had to ask that it be removed because it was offensive.”

    The Huffington Post stated that referred to an ornament on the 2009 tree that featured a reproduction of Andy Warhol’s “Mao” portrait. Community groups, not the White House, reportedly decorated that year’s tree.

    Want hate? Just see Palin.

  35. muckibr – people like sozo are exactly why I quit participating in a church.

    I find hope and direction in the teachings of the legendary Jesus, who I accept as a book character, the product of many authors, wise and knowledgeable. I also follow the teachings of other spiritual leaders as I’m confident that a Supreme Being or Power Greater than Myself wouldn’t be challenged so much as to not provide mankind many images that they can accept and learn from.

    If Christianity acted more like Jesus, I might be inclined to indentify myself accordingly. Meanwhile I’m more comfortable having my own classification and being in constant contact with a God of my understanding, who isn’t threatened by those who don’t believe.

  36. Can’t speak for Sarah Palin. I would not have had the reaction she did, but she’s her own person, and so are you. And so am I.

    If my comments are responsible for your distrust of the church RW, I’m truly sorry, though somehow I doubt that it is mine to assume full responsibility for your malcontent. You have bitterness towards the church. You are not alone. Why? Because the church, despite her best efforts, is made up of broken human beings who continue to miss the mark at times. But in the end, the church is secondary to Christ Himself, and I will say it again, for those who view this holiday as a true holy day, removing Christ from Christmas greetings just feels wrong. I hope those who feel this way feel free and safe to use CHRIST in their greetings.

  37. yabetchya says:

    Hmmm, I wonder who of you would be offended.
    Christmas Flash Mob by Journey of Faith at South Bay Galleria – official video
    http://www.youtube.
    Merry Christmas and my God bless each and every one of you.

  38. sozo – I would go further to state that all religions are political organizations that utilize people’s faith for the creation and maintenance of power on the earthly plane. There may be a few exceptions – individual pastors and parishes – but, on the whole, Church is one of the last places I would go for a spiritual experience.

  39. Look how cute they twist things:

    muckibr – people like sozo are exactly why I quit participating in a church.

    “I’m truly sorry, though somehow I doubt that it is mine to assume full responsibility for your malcontent.”

    There is the pattern that will never stop

  40. Thanks for the tip yabetcha. The precise link is this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnt7euRF5Pg

    and it’s a joy to see that no matter whether the world fully understands who Christ is, his Light cannot be exttinguised.As it says in scripture.

    bBoy, the church was not a political organization when it began, and certainly that was not part of the plan. That it has been tainted by sin is our collective shame, but still, it does not make me abandon it any sooner than I would walk away from a family member who is walking a crooked path at the moment. Just as Christian brothers and sisters remained faithful to me when I was in a pit of my own making.

    The church is not the institution, nor is it the chathedral on the corner or the chapel in the woods. The church = the people of God, who despite slips and falls, attempt to live in a way that will be pleasing to God.

    May all your cynicism be dispelled this Christmas!

  41. The classic manipulation:

    I said – “people like sozo are exactly why I quit participating in a church”

    sozo said – …”though somehow I doubt that it is mine to assume full responsibility for your malcontent”

    I never blamed any one individual, nor am I a malcontent because I got tired of hypocrisy and quit going to the place where the hypocrisy seethed.

    In the world of “I’ll pray for you” meaning “_____you!”. This is how rhetoric is used.

    As to the flash mob – WONDERFUL! Whenever people can get together and sing I think it’s about the greatest thing possible. Do they know any Dixie Chicks songs?

    I wonder if the Conservatives would endorse a flash mob of Occupy participants singing “The Times They are A-changin'”? “Don’t criticize what you can’t understand…..”

    I’m certain that there would be no negativity about a flash mob of Muslims throwing down rugs and praying, right?

  42. “the church was not a political organization”

    Someone hasn’t studied enough of their Bible.

  43. RW… I had this long multi-paragraph thing all written out that was kind of critical of sozo, but then I decided not to post it, because it wouldn’t change much. Suffice it to say, I have to agree with you and disagree with her, yet again. And you know that I am a Christian person, so what do you think about that?

  44. muckibr – what I think is that you have an understanding of Christianity in its purest sense and that you haven’t allowed yourself to be poisoned by the “God of Fear, Anger, Jealously and Hatred”

    By no means do I have the answers to spiritual enlightenment. The journey is far too fun to cheat myself by pretending I’ve arrived.

    I have loved studying The Bible for a majority of my life and had wonderful guidance from some teachers who had no dogmatic issues to sell. One of them, a Methodist Reverend, shared a story often told, but true in his case –

    He and his wife were assigned a church in the Deep South. The elders of the church set a meeting to meet and approve them. They were asked, “from which version of The Bible do you teach?”.

    Rev replied “from both the King James and NIV”.

    The elders responded “we read only the King James version. If it was good enough for Jesus and the Disciples, it’s good enough for us”

    Merry Happy Christmas Holiday!

  45. That “flash mob” video had many, many edits of many, many cameras – not just cell phone video – methinks it was a set-up video shoot rather than what would qualify as a true “flash mob” event.

  46. No question, beerBoy.

  47. Well shoot, now you boys have gone and ruined the flash mob for me too! Just kidding. I don’t actually care if it was staged or completely spontaneous; just thought it was nice.

    Sorry you’re so bitter and angry, but pleased that you have each other for comfort. There’s nothing quite like a Mutual Admiration Society.

  48. Sorry you’re so bitter and angry, but pleased that you have each other for comfort. There’s nothing quite like a Mutual Admiration Society.

    Wow….no projection there! Statements like the above hardly read as not being “bitter and angry”.

    sozo – you really should try to not be so damn defensive so you can read the content of my posts and not put something there that isn’t there. I did not comment upon the content of the video, rather the mechanics of the video. I believe that it is important for all of us to be media literate, to recognize how the producers of media are creating certain effects in order to better effect emotional responses from the consumers of media.

    This video was staged to create the impression of an improvisational flash mob (kind of the 21st century version of the 60s Happenings). The producers did this intentionally to DECEIVE the consumers of the video into believing something about the video that wasn’t true. This is a tool of propaganda (and advertising). You (and all of us) need to arm yourself with the ability to discern how the producers of propaganda are trying to manipulate you. If, being aware of the false impressions being put forward, you still enjoy the content of the video (which, in the specific incidence, I did) then you are doing so without being unaware of the attempt to misrepresent reality.

    Really sozo, based upon statements you have made in the past, I would think that you would applaud efforts to educate others how to think for themselves without being herded like sheep.

  49. “The uproar about wishing people “Merry Christmas” is absurd.”

  50. “Sorry you’re so bitter and angry”

    More of the Christian rhetoric intended for posturing. Add to the list of “Jesus loves you” and “I’ll pray for you”

  51. Can’t imagine how you got “defensive” from my reaction to your enlightening speculation that the video was, in fact, propaganda.
    It simply doesn’t matter to me. As for all of us being on guard for such shenanigans, you needn’t worry. We are accustomed to historical revision in cinema thanks to people like Oliver Stone and Michael Moore. As for my crack about mutual admiration, I was smiling when I wrote it; I find it charming that muck and RW have found each other, and that they have you to give them moral support bBoy. (Still smiling)

    Lighten up, okay? My participation on this thread was merely to support those who do not want to eliminate Christ from their Christmas greeting. Along the way, it seemed relevant to absurd interpretation of the orignal letter by RW.

    Alas, the day has arrived. This can all go back in the attic for another year and folks can get back to slamming Tim Tebow for thanking God.

  52. sorry, “relevant to POINT OUT the absurd interpretation by RW of the original letter.”

  53. You know what I find interesting?

    I find it interesting that

    A: I am a very proud Christian person, as is very apparent to all, but

    B: I seem to agree more often with RW, who has some issues with Christians and Christian rhetoric, while

    C: what I write here from my Christian perspective seems to really upset sozo who I think has been trying to present herself as the voice of all good Christians.

    To borrow a comment from a past poster, all I can say about that is: Kooky!

  54. I was smiling when I wrote it

    Can’t tell that unless you give me an emoticon!

    :-)

  55. Want absurdity????

    Try this:

    If we reject saying “Merry Christmas” altogether, will we not also risk the eventual degeneration of all that Christmas entails? Instead of love, warmth, hospitality and giving, will we prefer hate, coldness, rejection and stinginess? Instead of generosity, compassion and cheerfulness, will we prefer avarice, mean-spiritedness and a sour attitude?

    The world will “come to an end” if you say “Happy Holidays” and make it all inclusive, as opposed to aknowledgement of only one religion’s version of the holiday season.

    Nothing absurd about that, huh?

    “who do not want to eliminate Christ from their Christmas greeting.”

    Now let me think this through….Why should “Christ” be acknowledged for Hanukka, or Kwanzaa? Ramadan is a little earlier, so we’ll leave that out for the moment.

    Maybe what the Christian followers need to do is realize that they are not the only Americans celebrating and in the alledged spirit of their Christmas celebration – SHARE the holiday season with others, rather than put on this ridiculous, shameful display as children stomping their feet, not getting their way.

    What Would Jesus Do?

  56. “folks can get back to slamming Tim Tebow for thanking God.”

    Maybe Tebow needs to read Matthew 6:5 a few more times.

    Maybe it’s just Tim’s big salary, but my prayer closet doesn’t hold 60,000 spectators

  57. Back to the topic.

    I am not offended by people who don’t say Merry Christmas, and frankly, it doesn’t bother me if someone is offended that I do say Merry Christmas.
    __________

    Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    Matthew 10:32-33
    .
    Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

    Luke 12:8
    .
    There’s more.

  58. Well, after losing 40-14 today against the BUFALO BILLS?!?!? and throwing 4 interceptions, I’m guessing Tim Tebow may be wondering what happened to J.C. today.

    Tim! Jesus was busy! It’s almost His Birthday! You should have studied the playbook like He told you to in the SNL skit!

    MERRY CHRISTMAS y’all!

  59. amjim, how about this one…

    Mattthew 6:5-6

    “5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

    You see, I think that’s what some people have a problem with in regard to Tim Tebow. He makes a show of his praying on one knee on the sidelines. It’s in your face Christianity, that people object to, and even as a Christian so do I.

    Jesus said to do your praying in private, but apparently Tim didn’t get that part of the program. I pray a lot. But, to look at me when I am saying a prayer, you would never be able to tell from my outward appearance. I think Tim Tebow should try that.

  60. I forgot to add my point as regards this topic, so here it is…

    It’s also “In your face Christianity” when a Christian person gets all upset because someone says “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas.” Jesus was NOT about getting in people’s face and making them do as He said. Jesus was all about leading people by the example of His life and giving them the free will option to follow Him or not.

    You cannot force people to say “Merry Christmas” in this country. And, even if you could, Jesus would not want you to do that anyway.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

  61. I guess what amjim is trying to say is that The Bible contradicts itself

  62. If one is celebrating Hannukah, I hope he or she will not be afraid or embarrassed to say so. Likewise with any other religious celebration. For Christians, CHRISTmas is about CHRIST. What the PC gods just get out of the way and forget trying to homogenize the season.

    And muckibr, I most assuredly do not speak as the voice for all good Christians. I’m a lousy Christian a good deal of the time, actually. Nope, just making my little case here for people to feel free to worship Jesus Christ at CHRISTmas time.

  63. amjim, not to be a nitpicker about this, but here is another version/translation of

    Matthew 10:32-32
    31 If anyone publicly acknowledges Me as his friend, I will openly acknowledge him as My friend before my Father in heaven. 32 But if anyone publicly denies Me, I will openly deny him before My Father in heaven.

    and

    Luke 12:8-9
    8 And I assure you of this: I, the Messiah, will publicly honor you in the presence of God’s angels if you publicly acknowledge me here on earth as your Friend. 9 But I will deny before the angels those who deny me here among men.

    This, I think is a situation where someone might come up to you and say, “Are you a Christian?” and you have a choice to acknowledge that you either are, or aren’t. Or you could be, but it might not be a good time or place for you to say that you are, so instead you lie. It’s nothing at all like saying “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”, or even praying openly on the football sidelines.

    Now, having said that, and read these passages of Jesus’ own words, what do you suppose Jesus told God about Peter, who denied Him thrice before the cock crowed?

  64. Okay sozo, I misinterpreted some of your posts in that regard, and I do apologize for that. One thing I am sure of is that none of us are perfect Christians, and all we can really hope to do is be the best we can be and try to be better.

    I hope you accept my apology, as it is sincere.

    One other thing about folks who may say “Happy Holidays” rather than “Merry Christmas” though… Could it be that instead of meaning it as a slight against the religiousness of CHRISTmas, they just mean it as if to say “Merry Christmas and Happy New Year” in one simple two word phrase?

  65. “just making my little case here for people to feel free to worship Jesus Christ at CHRISTmas time”

    More of the absurdity

  66. Wowsers, RW invoked Matthew 6:5. Not sure why the double team. So, RW, instead of guessing what I’m saying, tell us what you’re saying.

  67. To the question about jesus, God, and Peter.
    I have no idea as I don’t speak for anyone but me, nor do I tend to think I know what other’s thoughts are.

  68. Ooops, sorry Jesus. ;)

  69. He forgives me :)

  70. P.S. I asked the question about what kind of conversation Jesus would have with God about Peter.

    Just wanted to clarify that.

  71. P.P.S. It was kind of a rhetorical question. Doesn’t really require an answer.

  72. Okaydokay.

  73. yabetchya says:

    The snail trail…tag team of RWmuck. The twaddle team…GO TEAM GO.
    All questions presented to you are rhetorical , so your reply is your own rhetorical answer.
    May God bless you and you, and may the reason for celebrating the season go beyond the twinkling lights and the sausage you receive.

  74. I would speculate that by your screen name, you see yourself as Sarah Palin. Is that right?

    How about you post an intelligent comment that has something to do with the topic of this thread, rather than just posting some nonsense as you have just done, Sarah?

    Merry Christmas Sarah. The topic of this thread is people objecting to the words Merry Christmas, or lack thereof during this time of year. Do you have something intelligent to say about that Sarah?

  75. yabetchya says:

    Oh, I am so sorry. I forgot to wish you and yours Very Merry CHRISTmas. May God bless the Muck and may the new year bring Joy and Peace to all that is theirs.

  76. yabetchya says:

    I was not going to respond to your Sarah comment, but what the hey, I AM WOMAN..and you did bring it up, even though it IS OFF TOPIC. She is an after thought, because I have been on here longer than she has been in the national(any) media. Try another tatic. You do know the short bus only goes so far?

  77. amjim hauled out yabetcha for Christmas. How nice!

    I wonder if all of his monikers are having a little egg nog fest.

    amjim, if you don’t know what Matthew 6:5 says, I’d hope you could look it up on that magic machine in front of your nose.

    Muckibr – larryfineamjimyabetchatook14 is still convinced that you are karnos, I am you, and karnos is me. He took a vote of all his personalities that that was their answer.

  78. Well, what where you saying Muckibr?

  79. I knew it!

  80. amjim, The only thing I was really trying to say is that there is a bog difference between acknowledging that you are a Christian, when the subject comes up, as in the Matthew 10/Luke 12 examples >> versus << the kind of "in your face" Christianity some people practice as Jesus told us not to in Matthew 6.

    I think, and apparently so does the SNL cast, that Tim Tebow is kind of an "in your face" Christian, and that's not really needed or wanted by most people who watch the NFL. Same as Brandon on the latest Survivor. That kid really got to me because he was an "in your face" Christian wannabe, who just did NOT act very Christian-like most of the rest of the time when he wasn't leading one of his phony prayer circles.

    I don't know if you watched Survivor, but come on, you DO NOT say a prayer to Jesus to ask him to help you to find a hidden immunity idol. What a joke!!!

    P.S. Happy Birthday Jesus!

  81. big difference (not bog difference) Sorry for the typo.

  82. Merry Christmas !

    p.s. muckibr, I try not to spend my time concerning myself with how someone expresses their belief. That’s between them and God.

  83. No worries about typos, we all make them.

    As long as you’re not criticizing someone else for typos that is ;)

  84. amjin, I try not to either, but there are times when it does get my goat. And, as the subject of this topic has proven, it gets to others as well in the form of a simple Merry Christmas greeting.

    I guess I am just trying to say that where I’m not bothered if someone says Merry Christmas or not, or say something else, I can still kind of understand how they might feel, because “in your face” anything gets to me. We all have out hot buttons, and some people know how to and just like to press them.

  85. Oh! and amjim, Merry Christmas back at you!!!

  86. “Sarah Palin, it seems, finds the Obama family Christmas card featuring First Dog Bo something less than appropriate.

    The former governor of Alaska tod Fox News that she found it ‘odd’ that the card featured the dog rather than the cores of the holiday: ‘family, faith and freedom.'”

    I’m guessing Sarah’s Christmas card had a picture including Levi Johnston, a burning cross and a shotgun

  87. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    NFL? Survivor? What are you, a TV Christian?

    No wonder your projections of other Christians are nothing less than the same old tired leftist generalizations that have been repeated, ad-nauseam, in one form or another since the Reagan years.

    Merry Christmas Muck.

    As a poor Christian myself, I generally try to stay away from these types of threads… except when it concerns the use of Merry Christmas. By sheer volume, Kardy has once again hijacked a thread by turning it into a soap box for his atheist agenda. Truly, Kardy, if there is a finer, more hypocritical example of the type of preaching you so loath…

    Clearly, the point of the letter is not that all persons should wish others, and not be offended by use of the salutation Merry Christmas. Rather, the point is there is no harm in publicly acknowledging the true nature of the holiday amongst Christians – the birth of Christ – through its use. Neither should non-believers or people of other faiths be offended by its use, nor feel compelled to reply in kind. But how does it hurt?

    Only the most pathetic, cynical, and negative among us would waste so much energy in opposition of a simple holiday salutation.

    Merry Christmas, Kardy/ RW.

  88. “Clearly, the point of the letter is not that all persons should wish others, and not be offended by use of the salutation Merry Christmas.”

    Now, that being said, let’s return to the REAL WORDS of the letter:

    “If we reject saying “Merry Christmas” altogether, will we not also risk the eventual degeneration of all that Christmas entails? Instead of love, warmth, hospitality and giving, will we prefer hate, coldness, rejection and stinginess? Instead of generosity, compassion and cheerfulness, will we prefer avarice, mean-spiritedness and a sour attitude?”

    The letter writer very clearly states that “rejecting” the salutation would mean the “degeneration” of “love, warmth, hospitality and giving”

    It’s comical how a Christian can step on their tongue and one of their brethren will go out of their way to pretend they can’t see the dirt on said appendage

    It appears letters to the editor are manipulated with the same craft as Biblical quotes.

  89. Give it up RW and go have an egg nog.

  90. How are the Christians going to milk this cow after today?

  91. None of the Christians I know really worry about.

    RW, (honest question) have you stated you are a Christian? Because the way you worded your question “How are the Christians…?” implies otherwise.

    Merry Christmas.

  92. … about it.

  93. amjim – certainly is a fair question.

    No, I don’t consider myself a Christian. I once practiced Christianity and have decided to widen my path to enlightenment.

    Truthfully, MOST of the Christians I know don’t get caught up in the “Merry Christmas” debate, as they are “live and let live” Christians who understand that they don’t own the holiday season and there is no reason to not acknowledge the feelings and beliefs of others.

    To type “minority of Christians” on this debates, when making reference to the Conservative Evangelicals that perpetrate this nonsense is cumbersome.

    As the “Occupy” people have seen, the actions of a few have a tendency to paint a picture of the majority, regardless of if it’s right or not.

    Guessing you are Christian, I say “Merry Christmas” in honor of your celebration.

  94. RW… as for the minority of Christians who want to argue the point of making everyone recognize Christmas as a Christian religious holiday and who are offended if someone says something other than “Merry Christmas”…

    Why don’t we label them as “Activist Christians?”

    Just a thought.

  95. took14theteam says:

    “I wonder if the Conservatives would endorse a flash mob of Occupy participants singing “The Times They are A-changin’”? “

    The video would look a little different. They would be busting windows, looting, overturning police cars and setting them on fire for one thing. They would be interfering with the rights of other people to pass freely and causing chaos.

    Other than that, it would be just as enlightening…… ;-)

  96. Thanks RW.

    Would it be fair to say the minority of “activist” Christians aren’t the only minority group trying to influence politics or culture ?

  97. amjim – not a question. I guess since there are activist groups trying to influence culture and politics, activist Christians should create a non-issue so that they won’t feel left out.

    took14 – Dependable as can be. I’m surprised that the flash mob carolers in the shopping center didn’t have pictures of human surgical waste parading it as aborted fetuses. One stereotype deserves another.

  98. took14theteam says:

    The same old same old. RW et al quoting a comment from me that has been deleted. Yet sum one runs aMUCK.

    Kooky (TM LF) indeed!

  99. took14theteam says:

    Flags are gonna be flying for Mr. Hill from now on.

    ::::::Laughing Out Loud::::::

  100. “amijim” ? Really ?

  101. took14theteam says:

    Nice catch amjim. That little twist on your name had a slime trail all over it.

    A new year is almost upon us and maybe the 60 year old child will have this site all to himself.

  102. Yea, the exact same thing happened when I posted as iamjim. In fact, someone managed to get my password changed.

  103. I also remember back in ’09 when someone did the same thing to aislander. They created the moniker “aiislander”.

  104. amJames says:

    Merry belated Christmas.

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