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TACOMA: Give non-union grocery support

Letter by Stephen Wright, Tacoma on Dec. 15, 2011 at 3:40 pm with 81 Comments »
December 15, 2011 3:40 pm

We finally get a grocer to take a risk in downtown Tacoma, and the party is being ruined by some nonsensical union representatives. Or are they? Seems that some picketers in front of the IGA Store on Pacific Avenue are/were being paid as temps and weren’t even members of the UFCW 367. How goofy is that?

Here is a direct quote from the UFCW 367 website and the fliers they hand out: “When people shop at non-union stores, they are enabling those employers to lower the standard of living for everyone.” And, “When you shop at non-union stores, you are helping to put your own neighbors out of work.”

Wow, really? If that’s true, my neighbors must hate me for shopping at many non-union stores for all kinds of things.

Didn’t two other union-supported grocers turn down the site before IGA took it on?

I am not opposed to people choosing to join a union if they wish. And yes, I do shop at those grocers as well. So why isn’t there room in the market for a non-union grocer? Ask the picketers that question. I did; they have no answers.

The employees at the downtown IGA seem to be happy, and happily employed. I say we all give the downtown IGA some support, and if the tomatoes from the store weren’t so good I’d say let’s give the picketers one of those.

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Leave a comment Comments → 81
  1. Were the “temps” paid at union scale?

    I’m not sure what your complaint is, other than you oppose unions and free speech.

  2. The protesters at Winco at 72nd and I-5 are not UFCW and are being paid ten bucks an hour as professional picketers. Some also ditch the signs from time to time to go into Winco for a pop or water. And what’s “union scale”? What’s their job description, “tool”?

  3. took14theteam says:

    I am sure the complaint was business has a right to exist without union extortion. People have a right to shop where they want. I am pretty sure the employees of that IGA are getting paid, and just maybe it pays their bills, in Obama’s economy…

  4. LarryFine says:

    I heard labor Ready was paying them. Kooky, that UFCW dues payers dues are going to pay non-union temps.

  5. Kevindot1 says:

    I wholeheartedly agree with the letter writer! I see this as nothing but union protesters and it is stupid and ridiculous. The city and citizens of Tacoma have been begging for a grocer in downtown for years! IGA City Grocery has a really nice store and a welcome addition to the downtown corridor.

  6. Why would anyone want to pay more for the same exact item in this economy? Get it where it’s cheapest and make your $$$ stretch. Buy American when you can, but as for union grocers – upyerz !!!!

  7. surething says:

    As a former UFCW member, I can say that they do NOTHING. Worst contract at my last job.

  8. SafewayOrangeSoda says:

    Isn’t it kinda hypocritical to complain about nonunion work going on, then to turn around and hire nonunion workers to whine about it?

  9. It’s not about wages, it’s not about workers directly, it’s not about fairness.

    It’s about control. Will it be individual people each controlling their own lives? Or will it be serfs performing as their masters command?

    Ignore political handouts that lie. We are in a war – do we remain the land of individual liberty or do we become a hive of worker bees? That is really the only issue.

  10. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Yeah, it seems “free speech“ ain’t always free.

    Can I get a “kooky“?

  11. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    pgroup, your post reads a bit androgynous… in a labor/ management sense. Not sure who you are supporting here, if either. Can you expound on you comment a bit more? Maybe help us slow ones get your point of view?

    Thanks.

  12. Get a clue. The only jobs the UFCW are protecting are their own. If stores don’t hire union employees, the UFCW staff don’t get paid. Simple as that.

    Unions, unfortunately, have become what they were fighting against 100 years ago. It’s time for a new model.

  13. ItalianSpring says:

    Larry- Fantastic observation.

    Regarding everything going on right now I can only say (sarcastically):
    4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!

  14. nwcolorist says:

    The union is clearly putting their own interests above those of the consumer. I find the service at non-union stores consistently better than union.

    Private enterprise draws customers by offering lower prices. The unions draw customers by trying to shut out the competition.

    And that’s hilarious that the unions are hiring non-union labor to picket.

  15. “And, “When you shop at non-union stores, you are helping to put your own neighbors out of work.”

    Wow, really? If that’s true, my neighbors must hate me for shopping at many non-union stores for all kinds of things.”

    The union position is partly correct. There is some job transfer from your local union store. Although some of that job transfer may come from other non-union business like restaurants.

    Plus when you shop at a non-union store, the wage and benefit package is likely lower then the union store. That causes some downward wage spiral in the area. This may also cause some downward price spiral in the price of the goods being sold.

  16. I wonder if any of the bozos crapping up my park at 509 & Pacific were hired to picket?

  17. “The union is clearly putting their own interests above those of the consumer. I find the service at non-union stores consistently better than union.”

    Well of course the union worker is putting their own interests above their customers, but so is the non-union worker.

    I don’t know where you shop, but outside of the grocery stores, there isn’t that many union stores left.

    I don’t have many complaints about either the non-union and union stores. I like the self-checkouts at Fred Meyer, Safeway and Home Depot, and use them. The Metropolitan and Target do a pretty good job getting folks out the door without too much waiting. I was at Walmart yesterday and was not impressed with their service. They did have what I was looking for, so the government got their sales tax.

  18. I completely support any person who is willing to take his/her own financial capital to invest in downtown Tacoma… I’ve heard, ad nauseum, how we need to support locally-owned small businesses… The president of The Meyers Group, which is a family-owned business based on Whidbey Island, told me that their employees are better compensated than their counterparts at Fred Meyer and Safeway… It’s just that they’re not unionized, and so the UFCW has a beef. I grew up in a “union house”… my Dad was a Teamster, my wife is a member of a union as well, but in my opinion, the only people who are in need of union representation in the 21st century are farm workers and miners!

  19. Unions, unfortunately, have become what they were fighting against 100 years ago. It’s time for a new model.

    The new model is wealth concentrated in the 1%; no jobs due to automation, unequal trade between countries, and the disappearing middle class; and low wages for those who are not highly educated.

    Interestingly, if the union membership was significantly larger, they could fix some of this inequality. However, that’s not what American’s want. They want cheap prices today. That’s what Walmart sells. You can’t blame Walmart for giving folks what they want.

    Let’s all enjoy our cheap Chinese goods and high unemployment this Christmas.

  20. bigredone says:

    I am a union worker. NOT by choice. I have no problem with people who CHOOSE to be involved in a union. I do not. This state needs to change the laws and make it an “open shop” state. Give workers the freedom to choose whether or not they wish to participate in the union.

  21. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    I shop exclusvly at this IGA for one reason. To send a signal to the union thugs that I am a free American, living free in a liberal union controlled state. It’s time we changed things in this state and passed Right To Work laws. Unions are breaking the state budgets with the benefit packages they have gotten from democrats they elected.

    We all must starve the state of any new revenues, they can’t be trusted because they don’t serve you, they serve their union overlords.

  22. LarryFine says:

    I shopped there the other day… when I drove past the pig pen at the corner of Pacific and SR509 I saw 3 people… in the whole park.
    I also noticed one of their printed signs claiming support by local firefighters… Kooky, I asked a couple friends who are firefighters… and they never heard they supported OWS.

  23. I recall “TaxedEnough” saying that he talking some of his police friends (possibly firefighters)into not paying union dues and donating the money to charity.

    I wonder if those charities negotiated their safety issues over the years, in addition to their health care benefits and pensions.

    Unions are run by union members. Only the anti-union activists will lie and try to tell you different.

  24. LarryFine says:

    So… what’s your point kard?
    The UFCW is using dues to pay nonunion labor to picket, and the ‘urban campers’ are claiming local firefighter support.

    kooky.

  25. Bigredone – I’m sure that you don’t want the wages or benefits that were negotiated by the bargaining unit.

  26. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    RW98512
    You will be happy to know that 4 firefighters and 2 policemen have submitted documentation to have their forced union dues collected sent to charities. Their union stewards are intimidating and threatening them but they are holding their ground and they are talking their friends into doing the same. I agree with them and we should support them that say, “cops and firefighters don’t need a union”. They have representation, they are called legislators.

    And don’t forget they only want the same as federal workers. They work in an open shop. They don’t have to join the union or pay forced dues. They are doing just fine. WA State workers need the same. You can’t debate that point. Government workers are government workers, they should all have the “open shop” right to work.

  27. union tools: “When you shop at non-union stores, you are helping to put your own neighbors out of work.”

    And when you shop at union stores, you’re helping to put your own neighbors out of work.

    What a stupid and arrogant thing to say, that all of your neighbors must be union. More people aren’t union than are, and most people in unions don’t want to be there, they would rather negotiate for themselves. We’re educated these days, for crying outside. The 99.99999% that aren’t sitting illegally in city parks, anyway.

  28. ReadNLearn says:

    Actually, the picketers are a great help to people like me and my family members. I got curious about Winco because of a bunch of red and white signs and man, the savings I get there!

    They have really great pork ribs, lots of meat, great prices!

    You see them picket a place and you know you can get some bargain prices and good service at that location.

    Please, keep it up. If I can find a place that’s a bit closer to home I’d have even better savings.

  29. harleyrider1 says:

    Unions should not decide for us where to shop or what to buy.

    Free trade. Free America. And free Americans decide. If we shop there, it will serve all of us well. If we don’t, it closes like many businesses.

    You decide. It’s your business and your right – not mine to tell you what to do. And it certainly is not “the Union’s”.

  30. taxed – you’ll be glad to know that your friends become alienated on the job, enjoying the benefits that others negotiated for them.

    Of course, you don’t care about that, do you? Your “win” is to do anything to stop organized labor.

    When a union brother or sister saves the life of any of your friends, I’m sure that they’ll thank you and the charity.

    “They have representation, they are called legislators”

    Yeah. I’m sure, if they have a Republican legislative district, they are being taken….uh care of…..

  31. “Unions should not decide for us where to shop or what to buy.”

    They don’t. They inform. It’s up to you to decide.

  32. Winco? Good meat?

    Someone hasn’t had good meat or produce if Winco is their choice. One shopping trip told me.

  33. firemannotfirefighter says:

    As a Union Member I cannot wait until I park my car in this parking lot (With my Union sticker on it) and go inside to purchase my groceries, wearing a Union T-Shirt and Union Baseball hat.

    One of the biggest problems that I have with unions, especially my own, is that they try to strong arm people to bend their way. All the while, their own hypocrisy never gets brought to light.

    Go to ANY union hall in the state of Washington and count how many Foreign Made cars are in the parking lot. Yes, I know that Toyota is made here in the Good ol US of A, but they are manufactured in Kentucky by non union members. If unions want to continue to be relevant, then maybe THEY should have purchased this property and used it as an investment and put their own employees to work. Since unions are supposed to be Non-Profit, 100% of the proceeds would go back to the employees. When the unions in this state start looking out for the interests of their own members, and not the personal interests of the members on their boards, I will support them more. Hiring Temp employees at $10 per hour to picket because their members are to apathetic or lazy to do it, just shows that unions are becoming less and less relevant.

  34. ReadNLearn says:

    My union was spending our dues on the gay marriage fight, supporting irrelevant social agenda items while our jobs and hours were being cut.

    I’m sorry, but the real union folks, like those who faced down the big bosses in the 1930’s and took hits from the company goons wouldn’t believe the politically correct sell outs who call themselves union members now.

  35. “Since unions are supposed to be Non-Profit, 100% of the proceeds would go back to the employees”

    That is a false statement about non-profits. A non-profit is not allowed to disperse funds to employees, other than wages for work and benefits.

    The comment makes for inflammatory rhetoric, but so does the moniker of the commenter. Makes you just want to risk your life for such a person, huh?

  36. “My union was spending our dues on the gay marriage fight, supporting irrelevant social agenda items while our jobs and hours were being cut.”

    Could you specifically cite the union local and the funded legislation?

  37. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    I am happy to see the majority of comments are against the unions in general. They are losing public support and that means that change is coming. Let me remind those out here with commen scense why unions are destroying the economy.

    Unions lead to higher prices for consumers since companies must pay more for wages & benefits, which are then passed on to customers.

    Unions make the country less competitive since non-unionized companies in India, China, Taiwan, etc. can pay workers far less and therefore charge less and/or assign more workers per unit of product.

    Unions often prevent more qualified workers from getting the jobs. Less proficient workers are often protected from layoffs or firing; thus, new positions open less frequently.

    Society and companies are often held hostage to the essential services of certain unions (e.g. teachers, police, construction workers, air traffic controllers, etc.); thus, negotiation becomes less about fairness to workers than about companies meeting the demands of union extortion.

    The State and Federal labor/discrimination laws, the threats of lawsuits, and the avoidance of poor publicity all make unions largely unnecessary nowadays.

    Unions lead to job losses to India, China, and other overseas companies. Non-union shops have a major cost advantage in hiring. Plus, in unionized companies, owners & managers may simply choose not to hire at all since the cost of maintaining or laying off a new employee is too great.

    Unions have become a source of political power and corruption. Since unions can offer a large block of voters, politicians will often curry favor from unions and screw over the taxpayers. Consequently, union representatives concentrate on helping their favorite politicians and political party rather than doing what’s best for the members.

    It prevents the firing of clearly incompetent workers. Several poorly-performing teachers on tenure as well as most government workers are clear examples.

    Unions lead to less productivity and job motivation since pay levels are usually determined by seniority rather than performance. The lack of incentives such as increased pay or promotion, as well as the lesser threat of losing their jobs, leads to workers putting out less effort than they otherwise would.

    It creates an “us” vs. “them” hostility between ownership and workers.

    Unions focus on the needs of the members at the expense of non-union members & society, as evidenced by labor unrest all over the world as governments try to rein in unsustainable spending.

    For many types of jobs, union membership is required for the position, along with substantial cash dues on a regular basis. This is inherently anti-freedom.

    It decreases the flexibility of both employee and employer in negotiating wages, benefits, and other items. Especially with the technological advances of today and multi-working families, employees often want to customize work hours & location, fringe benefits (e.g. more vacation time, no health insurance), and pay (e.g. per hour or per project vs. salaried). Unions tie the hands of both employee and employer in such situations.

    Unions have in the past had ties with organized crime or communist organizations, which are fundamentally trying to harm the nation’s free market system.

    Unions reduce the investment dollars that are put into a company since investors are less willing to take on the risks of work stoppages, higher costs, decreased management flexibility, etc.

    All employees have one bargaining chip that never requires a union–they can quit and go work somewhere else.

  38. Nanook – the only crapping being done OUR park is in the porta-potties.

    Bigredone – you do have a choice – If you don’t like being in a union get another job.

    Taxed – the major difference between the unionized state workers and
    you is that they have made sacrificed to help balance the budget rather than spewing fox bat sound bites.

    The fact that only 1 in 8 private sector workers belong to unions proves while unions may get blamed they are but one minor reason why American jobs are being exported.

    L-F,
    When you passed the Occupied park you were driving the pen.
    Not surprising that any friend of yours would be as ignorant and uninformed as you are.

    RW – One wonders what Taxed’s Police friends would say if they had to give up all the pay and benefits the union has negotiated for them and to buy all their own safety and other supplies and equipment.

    PS: Given the incorrect distriptions L_F and others make about the Occupied Tacoma Park, I really have to wonder if they have ever actually been by and taken a good look at the park.

  39. took14theteam says:

    I saw the #OWS site in Tacoma today. Bunch of punks standing around smoking. Man they are really going to influence change. I am ready to pay more in taxes now…

  40. xring: “Taxed – the major difference between the unionized state workers and you is that they have made sacrificed to help balance the budget”

    Ranks right up there with some of the most ignorant comments I’ve ever read at this news site. Everyone suffers the Obama economy, government workers less than the population as a whole.

  41. Took14 – at least that ‘bunch of punks’ is not advocating second amendment solutions.

    Lanq – and your adherence to discredited fox spews talking points is pathetic.

  42. ReadNLearn says:

    Teamsters support PC agenda items like gay marriage when we’re losing our jobs…what a way to spend union dues.

    http://leftlaborreporter.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/labor-supports-marriage-equality-bill-in-new-york/

    How about the Unions instead simply work for us?

  43. Getting back on point. I worked downtown for over thirty years. How many union private sector jobs are there downtown. Not many! Union shops had the opportunity to open a grocery. They analyzed the profit potential and did not want to take the risk. So, a non union shop opens and takes a risk. What’s the beef union guys? Is society to wait for a union shop to take risks? Is that store competing against a union grocer downtown and undercutting their prices? Are union members losing their jobs? No!

    I am not anti-union. I believe employee are entitled to a fair wage. Maybe Winnco is taking jobs away from Fred Meyer. Maybe a Wal-Mart on Union Avenue will take away jobs at Top Foods and Fred Meyer. Maybe the union needs to take their informational picket signs to a site where there is a potential issue. There is no issue downtown.

  44. “For many types of jobs, union membership is required for the position, along with substantial cash dues on a regular basis. This is inherently anti-freedom.”

    It is 100% FREEDOM. You have the freedom to not take that job. Unless the bargaining unit organized AFTER you took the job, you accepted a union job and all of its conditions. If the bargaining unit was formed after you took the job – sorry – you were out voted by the majority.

    Welcome to Freedom and Democracy style labor.

  45. “Union shops had the opportunity to open a grocery.”

    Unions do not open grocery stores. They represent employees who want representation.

    If the IGA employees all called the Grocers Local and said “we don’t want representation”, there would be no informational pickets. It’s a waste of time, effort and money.

    Something tells me that there are employees inside that have signed union cards and the Local is protecting their identity from intimidation and harassment by management.

  46. Voicing verbal support for a civil rights issue is spending money? You speak as if there are no Teamsters that are gay.

    Read and Learn.

  47. “some picketers are paid temps”

    So IGA creating jobs is good, But the Union creating jobs is BAD.

    Did the Unions hire undocumented workers?

  48. xring: “Lanq – and your adherence to discredited fox spews talking points is pathetic.”

    Sorry junior, but since you can’t cite any “fox talking points” I adhere to, nor can you show any adhesion of mine to anything fox related, I’d say that you’re the pathetic one.

    You see, this is one of the glaring flaws of prog thinking. Progs seem unable of simply looking at something and describing what they see. You guys rush over to the Kos, the Dem Underground, the HuffPost, and msnbc for instructions on what you should think about any given item. You wait for some “leader” with a bullhorn to tell you what to chant, and then you chant. You people just assume that since you need leaders, that since you need someone to explicate events for you, that normal Americans are weak minded as well; you don’t understand that you’re living through a different paradigm.

  49. Unions lead to higher prices for consumers since companies must pay more for wages & benefits, which are then passed on to customers.

    Have a question and maybe in your ranting you can answer it. Went shopping at Macy’s ‘Ralph Lauren’ blouse $120.00 made in China, Donald Trump tie $45.00 made in China Did not check out his shirts because all his clothing line is made in China. Cashmere sweater $138.00 made in China So what you are saying is these are cheaper because they were made in China! I think someone is blowing smoke up your behind. The true answer is they want a 500% profit margin if not 1,000% instead of 100%. In my definition that is called greed. You state the union wants to control the employee, how about the employer? As for the union hiring the mob, go back and talk to some who fought for the unions. they did not have a lot of choice. Employers hired thugs,disguised as security, to beat the employees.

  50. Pacman33 says:

    “It is 100% FREEDOM. You have the freedom to not take that job.” ~ RW

    Spoken like a true Soviet Unionist.
    ‘Limiting and/or decreasing choices and freedoms is 100% freedom’
    Absolutely sickening that an American could think that, yet click submit on a public forum. Were you born in this country?

    That is more absurd than the unionist standard of telling us we should thank them for taking away our choice and option to work more that 8 hours a day. We should be thankful for their limiting of everybody’s opportunities that could be used to make an extra couple dollars in tough times. Those of us that are capable of working more 8 hour should lose out for lazy and selfish thugs who struggle to work more than 6.

    Unfortunately for non-union workers, paying overtime rates is just plain poor business practice. In today’s economy it is the fast track to bankruptcy. Non-goonion workers are rational enough to recognize this.

    Unlike the greedy, un-American slobs that have shamelessly sent corporations, even entire industries elsewhere. That is if the business owner was fortunate enough to not go under. Followed by the unionst’s spitting on the grave they buried him in, obviously assuming the presence of endless funds like their corrupt public sector brothers.

    The public funds the slugs shamelessly devour then protest the cuts to budgets before the Demorat puppets they elected. The same Dems. that signed the “Communist Bargaining Contract” reelected by the means of the public funds now missing and responsible for the cuts the union clowns happen to be protesting.

    Unionist “Red Roots” Freedom : Less Choices & Freedom = More Freedom

    Velkome to “Freedom” and DemoKracy style laboUr.

  51. took14theteam says:

    So the big “evil” corporation said there are no grocery stores in downtown Tacoma, maybe we should open one there. So they opened a store, hired people that were grateful to have a job opportunity in Obama’s world, and started serving the public

    The UFCW caught wind of the new store and said, Hay, those employees do not belong to our union. We are not getting OUR rightful share of their paycheck. We better go down there and force them to join the union. And we better intimidate the public so they will not shop there and go out of their way to find another place to shop to punish the “evil’ corporation for not giving in to our extortion.

    And so people decided not to get hassled by the union thugs and went elsewhere.

    The store closed, and the employees lost their jobs and went on unemployment and food stamps.

    And the union was ecstatic that they were victorious that they shut down the non-union store.

    However they did not receive union dues, and the employees are out of a job, but the “evil” corporation is still alive.

    Welcome to Liberalville.

    The end.

    (trying to make it simple for the snail……)

  52. Pacman33 says:

    xring displays leftist blog level knowledge ~
    “Did the Unions hire undocumented workers?”

    You have to be joking right? Why do you think they flood so much money and support in the lobby for the Amnesty Movement? Why else would unions picket against ICE enforcement?

    Workers without American citizenship are the only workers un-American enough to voluntarily join a union these days. Thanks to a loophole in the 1986 law that made it illegal to hire an illegal alien, it is perfectly legal for a union to provide membership to an illegal alien.

    The massive illegal immigrant faction, equaling millions of union memberships is like the single most un-American quality of Union’s, on a long list of them. It is also one of the most destructive to our country and harmful to legal workers. Union members allow their due fund this madness and progressive union-apologists celebrate this crime against our country.

    Progressives have no chance to recruit based on
    their positions, so ….. (This is a must watch)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK7K0itgQt0

    Unions are equal opportunity illegal worker promoters.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlsScws6xUc

  53. Ianq,
    You want a name calling contest? Or can I just point that most of Occupiers are a least as will educated as you average union worker, and that the right wing hate/fear mongers are recycling the same tired old attacks that they used against the Civil Rights, Anti-War, Feminists, and Gay Rights, AND THAT TIME AS PROVEN THE AUGUMENTS TO BE WRONG.

    Government Workers earn over 20% less than their counterparts in the private sectors.
    Unionized state works have accepted paycuts to help balance the state budget.
    Federal works are in the second year of a 3 to 5 year pay freeze.

    What have private workers done? Other than get laid off to protect profits.

    Smarter people usually make better choices, and smarter people are less likely to be conservative. So how can we to conclude anything but the obvious? Conservatism is stupid.

    http://www.american.com/archive/2009/october/are-liberals-smarter-than-conservatives

    Pacman33 – has anyone ever said you sound like a jackbooted skinhead?

    Took14 – what fantasy land are you living in?

  54. xring: “You want a name calling contest? Or can I just point that most of Occupiers are a least as will educated .. blah, blah..”

    Translation: you have failed to address my challenge to you regarding fox talking points, and are now moving on to another subject change. Sorry bub, you have FAILED.

  55. Lanq, I have addressed you challenge.

    Don’t blame me if you are unable to understand my answers.

    Better luck next time.

    You haven’t failed, you just haven’t won

  56. RW98512, “When a union brother or sister saves the life of any of your friends, I’m sure that they’ll thank you and the charity.”
    For real? I’m so sick of the Police and Firefighter “HERO” mentality. You are just doing your job, man. Anybody with any compassion would do exactly what you do in a given situation. You just get paid for it. Get over yourself dude.

  57. calcan2 – I’m not an officer nor firefighter. Just a citizen that appreciates people that put their lives on the line.

    Good job at degrading them all for the sake of negative talk about unions. You should be proud.

  58. “The UFCW caught wind of the new store and said, Hay, those employees do not belong to our union. We are not getting OUR rightful share of their paycheck.”

    Yeah. That’s why all the non-union stores are being picketed. What a fool. Informational pickets are used to start negotiations for inside employees that want to organize.

    I’m certain that the anti-union zealots will disappear when the certification vote is publicized (which will not happen in a newspaper with a corporate reputation for breaking unions)

  59. “Unfortunately for non-union workers, paying overtime rates is just plain poor business practice. In today’s economy it is the fast track to bankruptcy.”

    Well, THAT set the labor movement back about 100 years.

  60. LarryFine says:

    My guess is the folks at Winco are quite hapy with their Profit Sharing arrangement.

    I wonder how the union folks would respond to “informational” picketing outside their closed shop…

  61. LarryFine says:

    btw, I shopped Winco yesterday… it was PACKED with shoppers. They had the most beautiful produce and it was half the price of the other stores.

  62. rw: “I’m not an officer nor firefighter. .. Good job at degrading them all for the sake of negative talk about unions. You should be proud.”

    He didn’t degrade any of them, he pointed out the obvious. Many of them do a dangerous job, yes, but they know the score when they’re hired, and they get paid very well for it.

    I, too, grow a little tired of the idolization of certain public sector job titles, and even more so of the hypocrisy of so many leftists who put them on a pedestal when convenient, but are the first to make sure the cameras are rolling when they provoke them during their little protests.

  63. “I wonder how the union folks would respond to “informational” picketing outside their closed shop… ”

    There is nothing wrong with pickets on public property. If Safeway, Albertsons, Fred Meyer, QFC, et al, wanted to antagonize their workers, informational pickets on their property would be just the thing to do the job.

    Something tells me that Safeway isn’t as stupid as your run of the mill anti-union activist.

    On the other side, it’s funny how the police officers and firefighters made for such great fodder, post-9/11, when the Conservatives wanted to create their atmosphere of nationalism for their fascist movement. Fast forward 10 years and they are nothing more than a target for anti-union movements.

    Want proof? Look at how this thread was manipulated. My statement to Taxedenough had to do with support among the ranks for those that wanted union benefits but pay their dues to a charity. That comment was turned into an opportunity to attack firefighters and police for their alledged claims of being “heroes”.

    Truth be known, I find both of those work categories to be far less verbal about hero status than I see from “veterans” that did a stint in peacetime military but, to hear them talk, you’d think they single-handedly took down the Russian army.

  64. oops…I should have said “Safeway etc isn’t as stupid”

  65. rw: “Truth be known, I find both of those work categories to be far less verbal about hero status than I see from .. blah, blah.. ”

    Irrelevant red herring. You and others brought up the subject, and you were the one who first introduced their union membership into the conversation. You’ve conveniently used them as tools for your union talking points, while at the same time attempting to shut down the conversation by making them off limits. Sorry junior, you’ve failed.

  66. took14theteam says:

    Welcome to the MO of the _nos…..

  67. LarryFine says:

    LOL… no kidding lanq and took14theteam.

    Hey, where’s RW’s buddy been today ? hehehe…

  68. Unfortunately for non-union workers, giving workers 40 hour work weeks, s just plain poor business practice. In today’s economy it is the fast track to bankruptcy.”

    Calcan2, lanq, Pacman, Took14, L_F,
    Next time one of you need the services of a public union member, why don’t you live up to you principles and begin the encounter by handing them a card that says ‘I don’t support public unions, and thank unionized public employees are lazy overpaid parasites living off the public teat.

  69. Pacman33 says:

    o-ring,

    You don’t understand do you? Are you aware how uninformed and out of touch you sound? Don’t you have any friends or family in the private sector?

    The 40hr week/8hr day is not a gift from unions. It is an extraction of choice, options and freedom in the private sector workplace. Anyone who has experience in the real world or basic math knows paying time and a half for 2 workers is paying wages for 3 workers and receiving the production of 2. In this down economy and time of layoffs, a small business can’t afford to just hire another employee nor afford one that doesn’t exist.

    How is that hard for you to understand? The 8hr day is even more freedom limiting to the private sector worker. When most could use a couple extra dollars the restriction only removes opportunity to do so. After working 8hr they are forced to quit for the day, despite work still available to complete and possibility to catch up or get ahead on a schedule. Instead he has to go home because of a bunch of lazy, greedy union goons took his choice away.

    Please no more favors.

  70. Pacman33 says:

    oring spittles –
    ” Next time one of you need the services of a public union member, why don’t you live up to you principles and begin the encounter by handing them a card that says ‘I don’t support public unions, ..”

    Just because you don’t pay any taxes, doesn’t mean gov’t magically produces funds. I already paid for the service and their inflated wages and will receive the service regardless of your card’s message. The fact that you and other leftists can manage to say things of this nature is sickening and telling about their value of liberty. If our founders could have imagined such a perversion of gov’t it would have been addressed. Government employee unions shouldn’t exist, period. It’s concept at it’s very core is lunacy; Public employees organizing against the public, the people as a whole?

    Make sure to give FDR one of your “cards”. Even Lefty McLefterson himself attempted to warn us of the mess we have today:
    “All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for officials to bind the employer. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives” ~Franklin D. Roosevelt ~

    We need to once again make it impossible. Americans see no need for their services, nor even desire their services. What are the contributions that unions make to our states, cities and our citizens? Their incentives are to increase the cost of government and reduce toward zero the accountability of public employees — both contrary to the interests of taxpaying citizens. The very nature of public services, such as policing the streets and putting out fires, gives unions a monopoly; striking public employees could therefore hold the public hostage. Teachers do it, and sleep just fine on their tyrant pillow.

    As if public unions need another reason for being dissolved, their cronyism is enough by itself. Politicians and subsequently the bureaucrats they appoint have no profit motive, and have no qualms about bilking taxpayers for even more money via taxation to give to unions that turn around and fill their campaign coffers. Rinse, repeat, etc. in perpetuity. There is no free market at work here as there is in the private sector. In the government sector, the taxpayers that are supposed to be the ultimate boss, are totally excluded from the process.

  71. xring, I have had this conversation with many of them. Why do the police and fire departments needs the nicest buildings in town? They don’t. Firefighters could get along just fine in used mobile homes for sleeping purposes. Now, I want them to have the finest equipment that money can buy, but they are no more hero’s than any military member that has to bunk in barracks. They don’t need anything more in those firehouses than what it takes to fight a fire. As long as they have their coveted unions, they will continue to get high paying jobs for working 9 days a month. It cannot sustain itself. It will self implode at some point. Then watch the union bosses run and hide, with all their spoils.

  72. LarryFine says:

    xring… what makes you think I’m NOT a public union member?

  73. xring, let me take this one!

    LarryWhine writes, “xring… what makes you think I’m NOT a public union member?”

    Maybe because public union members are intelligent!

  74. took14theteam says:

    LMAO.

    Maybe they are public union members because they can’t get a job in the private sector?

    Just asking.

  75. LarryFine says:

    Well… this is really, really going to shock you my homophobic friend… iam… LMAO!!!
    .
    took1… I just realized I could have my cake and eat it too… ;

  76. LarryFine says:

    Oh… took, FYI… I’d wager at least half of the union members I work with would gladly shed their forced membership… “just say’in”.

  77. Pac33 – the 40 hour week is also the standard for earning benefits. Anything less is considered part time, and does not earn paid benefits such as medical and retirement.

    Had you known a quarter of what you claim to, YOU would have known this.

    ‘After working 8 hours. .’Tthe worker has a choice, go home and leave the job undone, take work home, or stay and finish the job.
    in my government office we geneerlly op for one of the latter two actions.

    What about the emplofyer who routinely forces workers works more than 8 hours but to be paid only for 8?

    ‘just because you don’t pay taxes’ PAC you are one stupid, ignorant fool. Government workers pay each and every tax private workers pay including income tax.. The rest of you stupid uniformed rant is not worth the paper a nit wipes itself with. And if you think you can get by without government or government workers move to Somalia

    Calcan – Open your eyes and look around. The nicest building in town is more likely to house the Mayor, Council, and City Manager than the police and fire departments.

    Larry – maybe they would and maybe they wouldn’t. But I doubt they would want to give up their union negotiated pay and benefits. Which would last no longer that it would take the Rpots in the State Legislature to do away with them.

  78. LarryFine says:

    Then again, you really don’t know… do you?

  79. Larry,
    Yes, I don’t know, hence the ‘I doubt . . .’

    And public unioins have accepted some heavy hits.

  80. took14theteam says:

    LF, I just re-read the comments above and came to the conclusion that I said essentially the same thing muckibr said but in a different way. Muckibr implied that you were stupid with its comment. And I implied that public union people were not qualified to work in the private sector so they had to less qualified and hence stupid.

    I was trying to one up muckibr, but I guess I blew that. I shall try to be more cognizant in the future (leaving myself open for the RW slam).

    And I concur that most union members would leave in a heartbeat if they could.Paying to negotiate a contract is one thing, but what else the union does is not what most people sign up for.

    Peace

  81. Pacman33 says:

    I can hear Forrest Gump’s voice stating some random bit of generic information, irrelevant and yet, it the extent of Gump’s knowledge.

    “the 40 hour week is also the standard for earning benefits….”
    That’s all I gotta say about that.

    “…. finish the job. in my government office we geneerlly op for one of the latter two actions.”

    Wow. After that one …. I would like to apologize to Forrest. You really don’t know much about the real world, do you? In the private sector, we would also like to stay and finish, but our freedom of choice was hijacked by organized labor goons. This is the 3rd time attempting to explain this? It is obvious you’ve been isolated; never having to work for a living.

    Out here, you lose your job or your company if one performs poorly. A small child will tell you a small business owner is performing poorly if he is paying wages for 3 employees and only receiving the production 2. It isn’t like union’s magic bottomless well of public funds. Overtime rates and swollen salaries …. forget about it! No problem, if the well gets low, we can always tug on Nanny State’s purse string. Then she gets her union puppet Demucrat to pilfer more from the public, because thats what we deserve.

    The employers (taxpayers through their elected officials) have slowly lost their ability to determine the terms of employment offers. The unions now determine working hours, hiring criteria, the quantity of ‘output’ to be produced per day, the number of sick and vacation and holiday days, how their performance will be evaluated etc. No longer can the employer make an offer for a job with requirements that fit the needs of the public institution. That’s only the start.

    The problem really arises after you win office and sit down to bargain over the pay and working conditions with unions who voted for you.

    The majority of non union workers in this state have no idea that their pockets are being picked by government union workers. Public unions are sucking the life out of our economy with their unreasonable demands and have brought our country to bankruptcy, both moral and economic.

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