Letters to the Editor

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PATRIOTISM: Americans are too selfish

Letter by MacKenzie Allen, Tacoma on Nov. 14, 2011 at 5:18 pm with 107 Comments »
November 15, 2011 10:09 am

Heartfelt support of our military personnel and flag-waving, though sincere, don’t help our troops and don’t help our country. If we Americans truly wanted to do something patriotic, we should have long ago weaned ourselves from oil, at least in the form of absurdly large, gas-guzzling vehicles.

Columnist Thomas Friedman has been writing about this for decades, and many of us realized this in the 1970s when the first artificial (read “fabricated”) gas shortage occurred.

Our selfish ways pay for international terrorism. They pollute the planet. They are childish.

Americans only effect change when something hits us in the wallet. We should be paying a dollar per gallon federal tax on gasoline, which would not only force a change in behavior but would go a long way towards reducing our national deficit. Yes, it would be painful temporarily, but it could be phased in. We were paying much higher prices at the pump last year, yet somehow we managed.

If not for oil and its complex geopolitical web, would we be willing to send our military into places with those regimes and backward cultures? Somehow, it’s OK to send our troops to be killed and maimed, to devastate their families, to keep funding terrorism, to irreparably soil the Earth in order for us to keep driving the kinds of cars we prefer.

It’s all about the oil. Always has been.

How patriotic is that?

Leave a comment Comments → 107
  1. tommy98466 says:

    Increasing the federal tax on gasoline to $1 per gallon will not ween us off of oil. It will only stifel the economic recovery of this nation. What you should be talking about is not what Friedman from the NYT, that nobody reads, is your source of enlightnment you are in trouble from the get go. This country runs on oil and always will. There is NO alternative energy that will replace oil. What you should be saying is that we should drill for oil here in the US and then we would not have to go to other countries to keep the flow of oil going until a credible source of oil alternative is found. The price will come down and this country can get on with its economic recovery. Also you insult me and other Americans by telling us we are selfish when the US is the most generous country in the world. One more thing. Do you drive a car that uses gas? If you do you are the typical liberal hypocrite. Pathetic.

  2. LarryFine says:

    If it wasn’t oil that made the world go around it would be some other resource. If it were hemp, we would be sending soldiers to war over hemp.

  3. Spoken like a true fascist.

    You really have relied very heavily on ad hominem as a first resort quite a bit lately….

  4. If it wasn’t oil that made the world go around it would be some other resource. If it were hemp, we would be sending soldiers to war over hemp.

    Truly kooky as hemp is a weed that can grow almost anywhere.

    But, since you brought up this tangent, the War on Drugs is as, if not more, wasteful as the Wars for Oil.

  5. aislander says:

    So…beerBoy…coercion isn’t inherent in fascism? And this person is undeniably a lefty…

  6. The United States and Canada are likely sitting on the largest oil reserves on the planet. As most people have long since understood, it was always the intention of the USA and the (then) Soviet Union to simply play a waiting game, but the middle east and other places have outlasted geological predictions. (He who controls The Spice, controls the universe!)

    What some environmentalists just can seem to come to grips with, is that, as long as there’s oil in the ground, people are going to burn it. Period. Might as well pump it here, big time.

    Anyway, the above is ridiculous letter. And oh by the way, I do remember Mr. Weiss, (leftist sixth grade teacher) Park Avenue School in 1971 bringing in a couple of hippies who guaranteed the class that the world would be out of oil within twenty five years. That would’ve been 1996. Yes, the shortage was manufactured, but leftists even back then were predicting that the sky would fall. :)

  7. old_benjamin says:

    Perhaps we should go back to the horse and buggy. That’s as green as it gets. Imagine how much manure a two-horse family would generate annually and how many jobs would be created for street sweepers. I offer this proposal at no charge to the environmental wacko community.

  8. lovethemountains says:

    MacKenzie, are you willing to pay ten dollars for a loaf of bread?

  9. The next time you go out and buy new clothing, food, booze or whatever else you want and/or need, remember that you were able to get it because of the fuel that was burned to produce it, harvest it, transport it and bring the people to work to stock it on the shelves. If you have a better solution, you should start doing it and become a multi billionaire.

  10. aislander says:

    If we DID go back to the horse and buggy, old_benjamin, and the horseless carriage was about to impose its hegemony, a President Obama would nationalize all the buggy-whip factories to prevent job loss…

  11. LarryFine says:

    “…since you brought up this tangent…” sayeth the kettle.

    Nice ad hominem. Either you’re willfully ignorant or intentionally obtuse.
    My point stands… were it not oil, what ever other resource we used, would be fought over.
    Can you imagine if water were used to power cars ? Apparently rain water
    belongs to the state. KOOKY

  12. LarryFine says:

    lovethemountains, no… she probably expects someone else to…

  13. “Might as well pump it here, big time.

    Now THERE’S a great solution to a limited resource – let’s use it up FASTER!

  14. “Nice ad hominem”

    ROFLMAO – what a hoot, coming from the author of “Spoken like a true fascist”!

    Pardon me, but your double standard is showing.

  15. “coercion isn’t inherent in fascism?”

    No. http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

  16. Aislander – a left the letter writer may be, but Fascism is right wing as in an unholy amalgamation of government and business.
    “nationalize buggy-whip factories” – No the right wing would export factories overseas.
    Frosty – now if all those products were produced here my Americans making a living wage rather than over there by people making slave wagers.

    bBoy – this time I have to agree with Larry (as much as that pains me). Although hemp is a bad choice, some resources would still be fought over as would the right of certain nations to be the exclusive supplier of goods to other nations.

    Larry – all water belongs to the state who allows are permits people to use it.

  17. aislander says:

    If you capture in a barrel water that falls on your roof, the state owns it. Doesn’t that seem wrong, even to you xring?

    It has always been the left that has “amalgamated” government with business, starting with the first Roosevelt. Obama is OBVIOUSLY doing exactly that. It doesn’t matter if government is co-opting business through regulation and taxation, through public-private partnerships, or through outright expropriation, but all those tactics are exclusive to the left.

  18. aislander says:

    LarryFine: I (against my better judgment) clicked on a link provided by one of the more “special” lefties: supposedly to refute the allegation that fascism is coercive. It proceeded to enumerate a whole skein of coercive measures employed by…fascism. Unless “summary executions” are not coercive…

  19. BlaineCGarver says:

    Fine, replace internal combustion with something of VALUE….Greeners and Socialists will not be happy until the USA is a banana republic with the head monkey in charge.

  20. old_benjamin says:

    No, Aislander,buggy whips are decidedly un-PC. More likely Obama would blame George Bush for the the lost factory jobs and guarantee a guvment loan for the manufacture of steam-driven vehicles. That Stanley Steamer could have been a bigger than Solyndra.

  21. aislander says:

    Ah, but what is used to heat the water?

  22. tellnolies says:

    “My point stands… were it not oil, what ever other resource we used, would be fought over.”

    Single source is the problem, multiple sources are available, and should be used. Yep, truth IS “kooky.”

    I agree with Aislander that a solution cannot be forced. That is probably the only thing I could agree with Aislander on.

    Those that think we “have” to stick with petroleum as “the” energy source, are, basically, modern day flat earthers. It’s pretty short sighted in another way as well, the environment is what sustains ALL life on this planet. The economy can go away and life remains, if the environment goes away, game over.

    There ARE alternatives, hopefully enough will realize that a change IS required, and will come regardless of what we choose to do. We can start changing now, or make the change even more painful when it is forced on us. (the supply of oil IS finite)

  23. old_benjamin says:

    Aislander, solar panels?

  24. NickDixon says:

    I wonder what intellectual limitations there were before man realized oil had a purpose.

    Can you imagine those early days of “oil is just dirty, slimey and has no purpose”?

  25. aislander says:

    Solar panels and Stanley Steamers, old_ben? I feel that I am engulfed in a chronosynclastic infindibulum…*

    *see; sometimes I quote lefties…

  26. aislander says:

    Oil saved the whales, LarryFine…

  27. aislander brings up fascism, perhaps to avoid dealing with this:
    “Americans only effect change when something hits us in the wallet.”

    And aislander – all systems of law, pricing, etc. that reward or punish certain behaviors, by definition, are coercive measures.

  28. coercion: the act of compelling by force of authority.

    So…..by aislander’s view….all cops are fascist, America’s troops are fascist, all bosses are fascist, all teachers are fascist, all parents are fascist……

  29. either you’re willfully ignorant or intentionally obtuse.

    I guess so because I still can’t figure out what hemp has to do with oil.

    And xring – you do know that oil is a non-renewable resource, unlike plants, like hemp, that grow….dontcha?

  30. SadujTogracse says:

    “dirty, slimy and has no purpose?” No, we are talking about oil, not the OWS protestors!

  31. aislander says:

    Fascism is present, beerBoy, when coercion is used gratuitously by government against law-abiding citizens. Legitimate law enforcement is not fascist, and, if you don’t want to be directed by your boss, start your own business.

    Merely because coercion by government has become customary does not make it legitimate, beer. That’s one very big reason I became a conservative!

    And remember, we all are FORCED to deal with government, which, in my opinion, increases by orders of magnitude its responsibility to avoid acting like a bully…

  32. Aislander,
    Water Law is the most diverse and convoluted types of law.
    Capture a barrel of water off your roof – depends on the state, how much you collect, and what you do with the water you may or may not need a permit. In most states if the water is for domestic use you don’t need a permit. For other uses you may need a permit.

    Communism – all property is collectively owned, and labor is organized for common advantage of all members.

    Socialism – means of production and distribution are owned collectively or by a centralized government.

    Fascism – uses a central authority to maintain control and terror and censorship are common.

    Communism and Socialism are both on the left wing of the political spectrum, while Fascism contains elements of both left and right ideology.
    promotes political violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.

    views conflict as a fact of life that is responsible for all human progress.

    exalts militarism as providing positive transformation in society and providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people’s character and creating national comradeship through military service.

    commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents or to overthrow a political system.[

  33. aislander says:

    Give it up, xring: I’ve owned you on the fascism-is-leftist argument so many times that I’m tired of making it. Next time I shrug off the ennui and make that same argument one more time, you should archive it to save me the trouble of repeating myself.

    Communism is blah, blah, blah. Socialism is blah, blah. Fascism is blah, blah, blah.

    Now. What are the differences IN PRACTICE between Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s Russia? Or between Mussolini’s Italy and, say Chavez’s Venezuela?

  34. aislander says:

    That should have read “infundibulum.” Spell-check didn’t help…

  35. fiftytwopickup says:

    what up with commanism is blah blah blah?

    you like commanism or sumthing?

  36. old_benjamin says:

    Aislander, a Rosa damascena by any alternative appellation would smell as sacchariferous.

  37. “I’ve owned you on the fascism-is-leftist argument so many times that I’m tired of making it.”

    If you say it often enough, people might believe it.

  38. NickDixon says:

    “I’ve owned you on the fascism-is-leftist argument”

    Where is that old bowling trophy that is covered in tin foil?

  39. BGC – if the US falls how much of the world will we take down with us?

    bBoy – did you miss the part of my post where I said hemp was a bad example?

    Aislander – when it comes to the fascism question you are a homeless LRV crying in the wilderness.

    In practice one major difference between Hitler and Stalin was Capitalists got rich under Hitler and got dead under Stalin.

  40. aislander says:

    So…xring…capitalists supported Hitler and the Nazis before they came to power?

  41. aislander says:

    LOTS of people “got dead” under both systems, xring. And Mussolini and Chavez? The glaring difference?

  42. aislander says:

    And so, old_ben, would an Amorphophallus titanum…

  43. With all the petroleum being processed from wells in North Dakota, Texas, California, Pennsylvania etc etc etc….I think everyone should trade in their silly un-American hybrids for 1972 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eights.

  44. Oh my! I forgot Alaska!! :D

  45. LarryFine says:

    LMAO… now this is entertainment ! You guys owned not_nos…

  46. aislander says:

    HERE’S a description of a heartless conservative…

    Mussolini promised a “social revolution” for “remaking” the Italian people which was only achieved in part. The groups that primarily benefited from Italian Fascist social policy were the middle and lower-middle classes who filled the jobs in the vastly expanding government – the government expanding from about 500,000 to a million jobs in 1930 alone. Health and welfare spending grew dramatically under Italian fascism, welfare rising from 7% of the budget in 1930 to 20% in 1940. The Fascist government advocated a number of policies on improving living standards for labourers such as by establishing the nationwide Opera Nazionale Dopolavoro in 1925, which was a state-sponsored organization that created numerous municipal clubs across Italy that allowed lower-income citizens to attend recreational activities, watch movies, and listen to musical performances, etc

  47. aislander says:

    So…if Mussolini’s name hadn’t preceded that citation from Reference.com, to what political persuasion would you have attributed those policies? Guess it’s time for the “Jeopardy” music…

  48. aislander says:

    By the way, xring, the capitalists who didn’t play ball with Hitler also “got dead…”

  49. LarryFine says:

    …that’s just kooky aislander.

  50. aislander says:

    Isn’t it though? And quiet…

  51. sandblower says:

    aislander said: “Merely because coercion by government has become customary does not make it legitimate, beer. That’s one very big reason I became a conservative!”
    Would you please let us know how you have been coerced by government in ways you feel are wrong. Thanks.

  52. aislander,
    Oil saved the whales and put a lot of men out of work.

    The non-Jewish industrialists and bankers supported Hitler after he was in power in exchange for large lucrative government contracts and loans to rebuild the German infrastructure and military.

    Chavez is a Communist/socialist who supports Castro.
    Mussonlina was a Fascist who supported Hitler.

    By 1925 Mussolini had embarked upon his quest to create the Corporate State, abolishing trade unions and employers’organisations and establishing twenty-two corporations; each containing delegates from the ranks of the workers and their employers.


    I suggest you also check out ‘How Hitler Became a Dictator’


  53. aislander says:

    Weak, xring (even leaving aside the circular argument about Mussolini and Chavez).

    The whales thing is a joke, but it DOES illustrate my point in another thread about how a passel of lefties wish to deindustrialize America…

    And the industrialist who DIDN’T support him were dead. See a connection? It really doesn’t matter HOW you gain control as long as you gain control. How controlled whom in that instance?

    Mussolini was a dictator; so is Chavez. What do think would happen to union leaders who opposed him? Keeping them around is called a facade.

    I don’t by the argumentum ad verecundum, x. I suggest YOU get another hobby…

    Now: deal with my citation of fascist social policies and show my how they are not leftist. Point by point would be good…

    And, sandblower: go peddle your papers until you’re ready to be serious…

  54. aislander says:

    Should have read: “WHO controlled whom…” I just realized “who” and “how” are anagrams…

  55. aislander says:
  56. aislander says:

    Did that close the italics?

  57. aislander says:

    apparently not

  58. aislander says:

    Okay. This is my last try at it

  59. Just to put things in perspective – aislander is comparing higher gas taxes to Black/Brown Shirts throwing dissenters into death camps. Kinda makes you realize where his values lie.

  60. The irony, of course, is that Goldberg wrote his screed because he resented being called a fascist because he was from the Right – now aislander uses this revisionist political fantasy to label anyone he disagrees with as fascists.

  61. the italics is a glich in the program at timess…

  62. m9078jk3 says:

    Private possession of motor vehicles that use the Internal Combustion Engines should be outlawed by force.Over 3 and a half million American citizens have been killed directly by motor vehicles since the end of the 19th century more killed than in all the entire wars that American servicemen were involved.


    This figure does not include those permanently maimed,paralyzed for life or in a coma which is likely much higher.It also does not include indirect deaths (from exhaust) involved from cancer,emphysema,indirect deaths and mass destruction caused by climate change brought upon by these vehicles of mass destruction.
    Worldwide motor vehicles that use internal combustion engines have killed and maimed more people than all the bombs including nuclear weapons used in warfare during the same timeline.
    Basically if you use an automobile during a 50 year period you stand a 1 in 200 chance of being directly killed but indirectly your odds of death or permanently disabling injury are vastly much worse.
    These nuisance weapons of worldwide mass destruction of people and the environment should be abolished.

  63. LarryFine says:

    5:09 post = ad hominem by his own standard.

  64. aislander says:

    There is such a thing as “soft” fascism, beerBoy. As I have said before, a hug is an assault if it is unwanted. Trouble is, once the mechanisms are in place, fascism, like concrete, can get very hard very fast…

  65. aislander says:


    Remember my point a couple of days ago when I pointed out that a passel of lefties wish to deindustrialize? Ahem…

  66. old_benjamin says:

    If you breathe oxygen during a 125-year period, you stand a 100 percent chance of dying. All green plants should be abolished.

  67. aislander says:

    A little housekeeping. The post by m9078jk3 may have been a joke (I have been burned using hyperbole to skewer lefties–it is very difficult to exaggerate the lengths to which they will go, and most of them don’t know how to be funny…), so, if it WAS a joke–you got me.

    beerBoy’s 5:09 AM objection seems to be regarding degree rather than ilk…

  68. You got me, aislander. That description sounds might close to the “hope and change” melody being hummed at the occupation camps.

  69. aislander says:

    I really don’t believe it was a joke, sozo. I’m quite surprised that one of them would be so blatant outside the fever swamps, though.

    So…beerBoy…would YOU like to take on the description of Italian Fascist (capitalized because it was the name of the party) social policies described above and make clear to me why they are NOT typical left-wing stuff?

  70. m9078jk3 says:

    Here is another reason why banning motor vehicles using internal combustion engines would be a good idea to help save the planet and the lives of people.They would have to use physical activity to go to work,shop etc.This is one of the leading causes of death even more so (by about a factor of 10) than direct deaths from vehicle accidents.


  71. aislander says:


  72. aislander says:

    sozo: You’re the teacher–please help me with this. A couple of posts above I wrote “…a passel of lefties wish to…”

    Is “passel” a plural or collective noun? Should I have written “…a passel of lefties wishes to?”

    Actually, I just love the word and putting lefties into passels…

  73. LarryFine says:

    “They would have to use physical activity to go to work…”

    LOL… after Obama’s done, what makes you think very many people will be working?

  74. m9078jk3 says:

    I am not speaking of left or right ideologies but when someone is unemployed or underemployed and can’t afford expensive and exorbitant personal motor vehicle expenses there are fewer choices of transportation.The most economical being either walking,riding a bike,getting an e bike or taking public transportation.

    LarryFine I do agree though that this country is headed for a much more drastic economic downfall within a few years especially with a spiraling out of control national debt and very high government expenditures.
    In cases of drastic unemployment much fewer will be able to afford to drive a motor vehicle in which case those alternative methods would more likely be chosen by more self reliant individuals.With a severe economic downfall public transportation would likely be overwhelmed and the individual would have to get to their desired locations by their own means.An electrically assisted bicycle would perhaps be the most economical vehicle along with a conventional bicycle.

  75. aislander says:

    m9078jke: So…since this is not an ideological stance, and you are thinking only about what people will do for transportation when the economy craters, I assume you are in favor of policies that will prevent the collapse and will, in fact, result in a robust economy with plenty of energy resources, full employment, and LOTS of expansive growth…

  76. m9078jk3 says:

    It would be nice to be an optimist about the economy but since I am only a mere individual I have to take a self reliance approach and don’t believe that the government will succeed from what I’ve witnessed.
    Time after time I’ve heard our state economist believe that the recession will be soon over.I don’t believe in it for a minute.We are really at the precipice of a much larger economic collapse in my opinion.I give it say perhaps 3 or 4 years from now and most of us will have a very rough time of it (survival).Just opinion mind you and I could be wrong but I prefer to prepare just in case.I doubt the collapse will be near total and likely there still will be some infrastructure in place.
    I have shelter,protection and can grow my own food and hunt for food as well.

  77. aislander It is a collective noun:

    A passel of conservatives wish to put forward their biases and stereotypes as if they were fact.

  78. aislander says:

    If it is a collective noun, wouldn’t that be a passel of conservatives wishes to allow freedom and opportunity to flourish?

  79. aislander says:

    I actually agree with you, m9078jk3–unfortunately. I’m a little skittish because lots of people on this board (and in yesterday’s letters) would love to impose their solutions on the rest of us. Nothing wrong with preparation and depending on ourselves, though…

  80. Aislander – strong enough to sink you dinghy. Again.

    The use of foreign words in everyday speech to sound cool or intellectual usually fails on both accounts.

  81. Authors who wish to intimidate their readers by a display of “superior intellect” oftentimes make use of arcane words that are not in regular use, “insider lingo”, and/or phrases in foreign languages. I remember reading one rather pretentious book that not only contained lengthy passages in foreign tongues but footnoted those passages with explanations in yet another non-English language.

  82. It’s my understanding that there is no hard and fast rule regarding the verbs used following a collective noun. Depending on the situation, you might want to use the singular, though it usually sounds awkward.

    In the case of your “passel of lefties” aislander, I wold say that since group-think is a typical characteristic of the folks you were referring to, you used the correct verb.

    Now, about using big words…sure some people do it to show off. I have myself from time to time. HOWEVER, must we all join in on the dumbing down of America? I am sad and disappointed at how we have collectively permitted ourselves to drift towards the lowest common denominator with regard to diction…and grammar.

    Get a dictionary for crying out loud (two clicks on google should do it) and enjoy the fact that you actually learned something new when you encounter an unfamilair word you had to look up.

  83. yous be rite soze, all dem big words kinda confuse little olde me in the basement here but dank ye jesus for oogle and yahooing…

    I asked my mommy for a cold glass of “opaque white fluid” kinda freaked her out a little… had to point to the glass… she smiled at her little xx.

    bb don’t be a meany. I like it when dey talk good.

    Thank you and God bless…

  84. aislander says:

    I plead guilty to using the occasional obscure word, not to impress the rubes, but to entertain myself. To any rubes who have been impressed or insulted, I apologize.

    “Passel,” however, is not obscure or arcane: it is an Americanism that, my grandfather tells me, was much heard on commercial television, particularly on Westerns. I picked it up from him…

  85. On a serious note, I have found myself spending a little more time with a dictionary and thesaurus lately, looking for the right word…

    I for one, appreciate the word play.

    I was just joking sozo, you know that right :)

    bb – I wasn’t to you…

  86. I was attempting to make sense of the premise of this letter and gave up though the title stuck in my head… I went a little surfing and came upon this…


    …too selfish and self-absorbed to be patriotic…

    ya think…

  87. You link a story from FoxNation with a video from MRC TV

    Fox Nation says “The Fox Nation was created for people who believe in the United States of America and its ideals, as expressed in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Emancipation Proclamation. It is a community that believes in the American Dream: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. One that believes being an American is an honor, as well as a great responsibility – and a wonderful adventure.” But….their name is all you really need to know.

    MRCTV is an online platform for people to share and view videos, photos, articles and opinions on topics that are important to them — from news to political issues and rip-roaring humor. People use the site to upload, view and share content, connect with friends, classmates and colleagues, and make new acquaintances.

    Hardly enough to convince me that the story or the video are real.

  88. Don’t get me wrong – I enjoy looking up the occasional words that aislander springs on us that I don’t know.

    Because of aislander I was able to tell my wife, who is teaching an Aesthetics class, that the proper term for what one of her students was complaining about with some of the philosophers was “onanism”.

    I too enjoy word play – even puns – even when it is rather lowbrow or trends towards providing only self-enjoyment of the writer (speaking of onanism).

  89. “Hardly enough to convince me that the story or the video are real.”

    “I think we should have a moment of silence in solidarity for the person they said was from the Washington, D.C. Occupy. Maybe, why did he feel the need to shoot the White House window today?” he asked.

    “So I think we should have a moment in solidarity for the White House, and for the guy that shot at the White House today. I don’t know if you heard, but someone shot at the White House window today.”


    What profound words… moving on…

    Mediaite believes the story….

    yahoo News also picked up the story… you think they believe it?

    The story is starting to catch fire, all these people repeating the story, what a bunch of ignorant, gullible morons. What do you know that they don’t… Huh, BB?

  90. xx – just to remind you that idiocy comes on all sides of the spectrum:


    but then….it didn’t really surprise me that the shooter came from Idaho Falls.

  91. What do you know that they don’t… Huh, BB?

    That everything you see on the internet isn’t necessarily true and not just Michael Moore can use images to tell his story.

  92. You don’t need to remind me of a dang thing and as usual… your point? I was responding to your statement about it being “real”.

    Well it is real, these are the people who want “Occupy” whatever and this just one more layer on the onion that is peeled back to reveal who these people are. Patriots… really… you think so… they have a heck of a way of showing it.

    The letter writer has the gall to question the Patriotism of a group of people that contribute to the financial well being of America… go ahead buddy, it is tead up for you, go find the worst of America and report back here, with video even…

    Your precious Occupy movement is taking over the subway system of New York city precenting movement and commerce. Who do you think uses the subway system…. the 1%… really???

  93. All evidence shows that this particular story is true… sickening but true…

    wow, where is your head? need a flashlight?

  94. Sozo – group-think and lock-step = perfect descriptions of Rpots and Neocons.

    True intelligence is the ability to describe the complex ideas in simple terms.

    Get a dictionary – very good advice to those addicted to pseudo-intellectual words.

  95. Since xx brought up the Idaho Falls man who has been arrested for shooting up the White House coupled with his ongoing attempts to ridicule #ows by scouring the internet for idiotic behavior from anyone associated in any way with the movement:

    Man with “Israel” tattoo on his neck arrested in White House shooting

  96. There is an evil which ought to be guarded against in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by…corporations. The power of all corporations ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.
    James Madison

    the “Tea Party” movement starting in 2009 was also originally centered on the protesting government bailouts of the giant banks.

    The Oath Keepers and a founding member of the Tea Party announced that they are supporting the current protests on Wall Street and against the Federal Reserve.

    Another key founder of the Tea Party – Karl Denninger – also supports the protests, and points out that the demands of the Tea Party protesters were originally very similar to those of the Occupy protesters (before the mainstream Republican party co-opted the Tea Party) .

    Numerous local tea party leaders, such as the leader for the Trenton area, also support the Occupy protests.

  97. OK bb – you know when I asked you your point, I didn’t expect that you would once again parrot the words of others.

    It’s clear you got mine – they had their chance… let me say this one more time – they had their chance to articulate a message, they have not. For the past two months they have been nothing more than attention whores.

    Yesterday they went too far… IMHO… Without a clearly articulated message they attempt to shut down commerce and in turn a major city. One simple question – Why?


    Just what I thought… Ok… moving on…

    The assassin wacko was a story in itself… we were still trying to determine his connection, if any to OccupyDC… who knows. But this moron in San Diego decides to hold a moment of silence in solidarity… As a supporter of the movement can you not admit to yourself that this surfer dude was indeed a moron of California size proportions and did himself, OccupySanDiego and the movement as a whole no good….

    Not everybody is liberal and I have no illusions that they are conservative either… but you had our attention… think about what that meant while they are cleaning up New York City this morning…

    What are they offering to build a better America…

  98. Tea Party vs OWS… Boston Harbor thingy vs Zucinni Square… wasn’t this covered before and it was a lame comparison then.

    Anything change to make it valid now?

    bb – when they turn their focus to DC… then they might get my attention again… until then, get a bar of soap and take a shower.

  99. xring…” pseudo-intellectual words.” ???

    I think words are incapable of thought and the ability to reason. I’ve never met an intellectual one, let alone a pseudo-intellectual one.

    BTW, simple does not mean lazy. Often with one well-chosen, precise “big” word, one can eliminate a wholoe passel of little ones that miss the mark.

    aislander, I love the word passel, and yes it reminds me of good westerns.

  100. Nice slam on folks from Idaho Falls, bBoy.

  101. sozo – Idaho is home to all sorts of survivalist crazies – IF is the second largest “city” in the state yet I have no desire to ever go there – except to pass through it as quickly as possible on my way to the Tetons.

  102. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Tea party disliked the bailouts because they free markets and limited govt.

    OWS (no #, I am not cool enough to follow them on twitter) thinks the bailouts were just a check to rich people.

    Ironically the financial bailouts prove that private business can do more with money than the govt. Let’s not forget they paid it all back with interest (TARP).

  103. “Let’s not forget they paid it all back with interest (TARP).”

    Who are “they”?

    Of the $245 billion invested in U.S. banks, over $169 billion has been paid back

    Not sure how $46 billion still owed is equivalent to “paid it all back with interest”

  104. Is it coincidental or is the name calling more venomous when submissions are under nom de plumes?

  105. bBoy, you say ‘Idaho is home to all sorts of survivalist crazies.’ It’s also your home. Shall we infer then that you are crazy?

  106. sozo, you are free to infer whatever you want to infer.

  107. Of course I am, bBoy, but you tell me…is it a logical inference?

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