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JOBS: Minimum wage hurts state’s workers

Letter by Chris Talbert, Tacoma on Oct. 13, 2011 at 11:21 am with 100 Comments »
October 13, 2011 1:54 pm

The desire for annual, automatic increases to the state minimum wage reveals a failure to understand basic economic principles: Any increase to the minimum wage means an immediate increase to the goods and services that utilize minimum wage employees.

Increased labor costs are then passed on to consumers; minimum wage earners are certainly consumers, meaning that any gains earned through minimum wage increases are automatically erased when that employee makes a trip to the market, where product prices are sure to have risen along with that wage increase.

The real damage isn’t in a failure to raise the minimum wage, it’s to those workers earning anything above minimum wage; those workers do not always get an annual pay bump equal to the rise in minimum wage, and for them it is merely a quickening of an already crippling pace of inflation.

The annual practice of increasing the minimum wage is ultimately a false economy and should be ended before it further erodes the earnings of every non-minimum wage employee in this state.

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  1. fbergford says:

    AMEN! Great letter bud!

  2. olympicmtn says:

    $9.40 per hour is a bit much so much for inflation.

  3. tree_guy says:

    Good letter.

    People whose abilities are not worth 8.67 per hour will not get a job now, will not get a job tomorrow, and will not get a job anytime in the future. The voters have consigned these individuals to a lifetime of joblessness. The only hope they have is that the voters will approve an initiative to invalidate the Washington State Minimum Wage law.

  4. Chris must work for Walmart.

    Maybe we can lower the minimum wages so that convenience store owners can afford higher rents for the same space.

  5. Chris Talbert, Tacoma , Published April 18, 2011
    What can be said about an American president who believes that “the Bush tax cuts were unpaid for”? Is he misguided, confused, lost?

    You and I are taxed on our earnings; these monies are collected by the federal government and spent on various things. When these taxes are reduced, as they were under President George W. Bush, they are not a gift from the government to us; rather they continue to be our own money, simply kept by us, for our own use.

    When upper tax rates were between 75 and 90 percent, the taxes paid as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product were 7.8 percent. When President Clinton held the top rate at 39.5 percent, the taxes paid as a percentage of GDP were 8 percent. And when President Reagan cut the upper rate to 25 percent, the percentage paid rose to 8.1 percent, proof that increased taxes do not lead to increased revenue; rather the opposite is true.

    Currently, the upper rate is 35 percent. Follow the logic; will the federal government really cut the deficit by raising the upper rate? History says no.

    Don’t forget that, for most of us, our employers are those same wealthy people whom Obama targets when he points an accusatory finger at the rich. The rich make payroll, the rich build businesses and start corporations and, increasingly, they do these things in other countries where they are not penalized.

    Punish the rich and you punish America – and yourself.

    Is there a theme here????

  6. Chris….I’m betting that you are among the 33% of voters that says “NO” to the President’s jobs bill and “NO” to raising the taxes on the wealthy.

    2/3 of the country disagrees with you.

    “when the legislation’s details are included in a follow-up question — that it would cut payroll taxes, fund new road construction, extend unemployment benefits, and that it would be paid for by increasing taxes on the wealthy — 63 percent say they favor the bill and 32 percent oppose it.”

  7. fbergford says:

    Wow Kardnos you must have smoked waaayyy too much dope in the 60’s and 70’s bud cause your brain is fried!

  8. aislander says:

    The most important thing about a first job is getting the job. Very few stay on the bottom rung once they have a foot on it, but many are prevented from getting that foot up there by the minimum wage. As a business owner, I swept the floor, took out the garbage, and did a multitude of other menial tasks I didn’t want to do, but weren’t worth minimum wage. Bottom line: I didn’t hire a worker or two because of minimum wage and other idiotic government requirements. If I had been able to hire someone, and that person proved his competence and drive, well…

  9. LarryFine says:

    Unfortunately Ai., your spot on analysis will be lost under wallpaper.

  10. tree_guy says:

    aislander. your comments were right on.

    as the minimum wage goes up, small business owners will just increasingly do some of those jobs they used to hire out. medium business owners will only open 1 or 2 check out lines instead of 3 or 4. and large business owners will just move the business to a more friendly state or country. try as liberals may, the laws of economics can not be repealed. The January 1, 2012 increase in the MW is not going to be good for entry level job seekers or the marginally employed here in Washington State.

  11. “fbergford says:
    October 13, 2011 at 4:51 pm
    Wow Kardnos you must have smoked waaayyy too much dope in the 60’s and 70’s bud cause your brain is fried!

    LarryFine says:
    October 13, 2011 at 5:29 pm
    Unfortunately Ai., your spot on analysis will be lost under wallpaper.

    I’ve got them on the run…..hahahahahahahahah…they’re in attack mode

    fberg….let me help you, as it appears happy hour started early today. The letter writer is a Classic Conservative, beating the drum of “lower wages for workers, less taxes for the wealthy”……..65% of Americans disagree with him

    LF is just PO’d because, once again…I’ve provided support data that demonstrates that this letter writer, with whom LF and Ai would love to have a threeso…..oh, nevermind….. is so predictable that I can smell it south of Olympia.

  12. “as the minimum wage goes up, small business owners will just increasingly do some of those jobs they used to hire out.”

    I can’t wait to see a Walmart exec taking out the garbage. What a crock of crap!

    Labor forces are dictated by labor requirements….unless you want to provide an inferior product and services in the marketplace.

    Where do you guys get this crap? Obviously none of you have run a business.

  13. “As a business owner, I swept the floor, took out the garbage, and did a multitude of other menial tasks I didn’t want to do, but weren’t worth minimum wage.”

    Most small business owners contract that out to service companies…

    :::::crickets chirping:::::::

  14. tree_guy says:

    “Most small business owners contract that out to service companies…” Kardnos

    aislander was describing his personal experience. And I doubt that most small business owners use “service companies” as you suggest, to empty their wastebaskets and sweep the floor. Kardnos, you spout off about running businesses all the time, but I’ll bet you’ve never written a payroll check in your entire life.

  15. Tree….unlike you, I’ve hired, fired and paid employees. (I used a contracted payroll accountant).

    When I completed my Saturday Night performance last weekend…..low and behold there was the clean up contractors…..vacuuming and mopping after the place was closed…..yeah…never happens, huh? This lounge has minimum wage servers, but the contractor is probably cheaper.

    In case you haven’t figured it out….I’m calling aislander’s bluff…

  16. Why do small businesses contract?

    No Social Security
    No L&I

    Just a straight up fee.

    Why do I know this? My small business (entertainment, maintenence and consulting services) works with businesses that want to avoid the costs of hiring employees.

    ::::crickets chirping more:::::::

  17. Try to find an employee that will work about 2 hours a week for minimum wage.

    LOL

  18. In case you haven’t figured it out….I’m calling aislander’s bluff…

    I see you in a room, sitting at a card table, all by yourself, holding a hand of cards close to your chest just waiting for a card to be played…

    dude, move on, no one wants to play with you.

    …calling aislander’s bluff – that is too funny…

  19. tree_guy says:

    There are plenty of people who would work minimum wage for a couple hours a week. Are you joking?

    And what’s with your “saturday night performance?” are you a rock star or do you run a karaoke machine or what? Why would you be responsible for hiring the clean up crew?

    Also, I didn’t say it “never happens” as you have attributed to me. I clearly said that I doubted if most small business owners used the service companies. Wouldn’t it be better to respond to what people post rather than just make stuff up?

  20. Tree…..I’ve been a performing musician for all of my adult life. I didn’t say I was responsible for the cleaners…I said I saw them….They had to help me with the locked doors as I hauled equipment?

    Rock star? No…I play grown up music. Something you probably would know much about.

    Yeah…..two hours a week @ minimum wage = not enough to pay for the gas, after taxes and insurance.

    People are just beating down the doors for that kind of job….

    Oh..I must fess up…years ago, when I had my consulting firm, I took out the trash and cleaned up. My office was in a 2,000 sf loft where I lived. LOL
    What a fool.

  21. aislander says:

    There’s a joke in which three guys are committed to a mental hospital and are asked their strategies for being released. Without going through the whole thing, the last guy is lying naked on his cot with a cashew balanced on the end of his manhood and says, “I’m never getting out of this place–I’m effing nuts.”

    KARD is never getting out of this forum…

  22. karnitos – do you realize how much you post and then answer your own post based on what you think someone else posted…

    the best ones are the one you set up the strawman… no one plays… and then you preceed to answer yourself and claim victory…

    dude, call me, we need to talk…

    xxito

  23. xx….do you realize how many times you worry about others posting and not the subject of the forum?

    By the way…your idea of my alleged strawman is saying “I didn’t say that” when I can copy and paste exactly what you say regardless of your denial.

    I note that aislander is now in deflection mode also.

    Can’t you people stay on topic?

    We are talking about minimum wages.

  24. aislander…tell us about your business where you took out the garbage and cleaned the floors in lieu of paying someone minimum wage for a couple of hours.

    I need a good laugh.

    Reminds me of Scrooge McDuck.

  25. aislander…by the way…you destroyed one of the really good jokes in this world.

    Allow me. Three guys are in a mental ward. One is acting as though he was playing tennis. He told the manager that when I got out he was going on the pro tour. The next guy was acting as though he was playing golf….”going on the pro tour”….again was the answer.

    The third was as you described…..yadda yadda blah blah….

    Your version makes no sense without the rest…….of course, that’s your MO.

    ::::takes bow during applause::::::

  26. I’m anxiously waiting for one of the Conservative Clowns to say that the problem is “too much taxation on minimum wages” so that I can laugh at their constant reference to “skin in the game” in the other threads…..LOL

  27. tree_guy says:

    “They had to help me with the locked doors as I hauled equipment” Kardnos

    Kardnos, I thought you liked to use service companies to take care of these little jobs. Why belittle aislander for sweeping his own floor when you refuse to hire people to haul your own equipment?

  28. …and then you preceed to answer yourself and claim victory…

    ::::takes bow during applause::::::

    dude… WTF…

  29. tree_guy says:

    “Rock star? No…I play grown up music. Something you probably would know much about” Kardnos

    Oh, I think I’ve heard of you. Do you play the accordion down at the senior center?

  30. aislander says:

    I think the point was that the minimum wage prevents new workers from getting their feet on that first rung…

  31. LarryFine says:

    Exactly as I predicted. ;)

  32. aislander says:

    Wow! Format change!

  33. aislander says:

    tree_guy writes: “Do you play the accordion down at the senior center?”

    No. That would be the organ at Bob’s Java Jive…

  34. theglovesRoff says:

    Okay, it is not just my computer (about the format change).

  35. theglovesRoff says:

    And I think the Kard has been hijacked, cause he is a little more creepy in this thread.

  36. tree_guy…..I’m doing what you are incapable of doing. It requires talent.

    As a matter of fact, I do perform for some senior citizens one Saturday morning a month. I like contributing to my community. I guess you just like taking from yours.

    I wish I would have stayed with accordian. In today’s pop music direction, as well as the tried and true music of the New Orleans culture, I could make more money than just being one more piano player. I no longer play guitar because that is a dime a dozen position also.

    As to Java Jive….uh…no thanks. I can’t play in latex gloves. I’ll stick with country clubs and working with event planners and caterers.

    Back to minimum wage……aislander (who has yet to tell us about this alleged business) is contending that regardless of the labor need, an employer won’t hire someone if there is a floor on wages. So much for “supply and demand” in the marketplace.

    I’m amused, if not amazed at how one dimensional a Conservative thinks. Everything is “less money”. If the “minimum wage” was $7/hr instead of $8.67 would there be magically 23% more minimum wage jobs, even if there was no need? Of course not.

    This line of thinking reared its head in a forum on the 1183 booze sales initiative. The Conservative supporters claim that with Costco, Safeway and Freddie beating on the liquor distilleries, there would be lower prices. I guess their idea of capitalism is forcing someone to lower their profit margin by “negotiation”. You see it’s not OK for a distillery to make more profit if it costs them more on the shelf.

    Yeah….rather convoluted thinking…but that’s the Conservative mind.

  37. xx…would you like a quarter to purchase a sense of humor?

  38. I see roff and LF are still not commenting on the topic….

  39. theglovesRoff says:

    Did they take away bold and italics?

  40. theglovesRoff says:

    Nope, they still work.

    I was scared cause Kardy didn’t use any.

  41. theglovesRoff says:

    And talking about being an alleged lounge lizard is on topic?

    Oh, I forgot, on topic is only what YOU deem it to be. My bad.

    “Hey pretty lady. How would you like to sit on my piano while I play for you?”

  42. cclngthr says:

    What people don’t realize is the cost of living here does not support a lower than state minimum wage. Average apartment rents in my area range from 750 to 850 a month, plus water/sewer/garbage and electric. That total adds up to over $1,000 a month. To even qualify for renting an apartment, the person must earn 2.5-3 times the rent amount. If rents are 800 a month, the minimum monthly wage must be $2,000 a month. Even IF 2 people earning minimum wage were to rent a place, they would have to figure out finances if one decides to move.

  43. theglovesRoff says:

    Yet, places are rented.

    Kooky

    Sorry LarryFine

  44. cclngthr…..now don’t go confusing them with “supply and demand”

  45. “Hey pretty lady. How would you like to sit on my piano while I play for you?”

    I’d be fired for such trollish behavior. Interesting that you’d think something like that up….or did you go out for a drink earlier?

  46. tree_guy says:

    cclnthr-

    If you think it’s tough living on a minimum wage job, then how tough do you think it would be living on NO job because the minimum wage law has dried up all the entry level jobs? Two people with full time minimum wage jobs would make a combined annual income of $36,000. Pretty sure they could make it. Not sure how unemployed people can pay for their apartments.

  47. Roff’s idea of the topic of this forum:
    ———————-
    And talking about being an alleged lounge lizard is on topic?

    Oh, I forgot, on topic is only what YOU deem it to be. My bad.

    “Hey pretty lady. How would you like to sit on my piano while I play for you?”

    ——————————-
    Nope, they still work.

    I was scared cause Kardy didn’t use any.

    ——————————–

    Did they take away bold and italics?

    —————————————
    Okay, it is not just my computer (about the format change).
    —————————————-
    And I think the Kard has been hijacked, cause he is a little more creepy in this thread.
    —————————————

    Now…I’ll just catalog this stuff on a data base and create a recall system so that five years from now I can bring it up, just like LF…

  48. cclnthr-

    If you think it’s tough living on a minimum wage job, then how tough do you think it would be living on NO job because the minimum wage law has dried up all the entry level jobs?

    You see…..because people have to pay $8.67 an hour, as opposed to $8.07 an hour…there is less work to be done. Brilliant. Tree would like us to believe that the lower the wage, the more jobs, regardless of the need. Yeah….like that’s gonna happen.

    How about this one? More people spending more money because they are making more money will demand more goods and services, thus more jobs to provide said goods and services

  49. olympicmtn says:

    Maybe all the wallstreet protesters and supporters will support activists who are also tired of paying huge inflated public dollars for county executuves bilking the taxpayers of $175,000 a year, county workers coming in at 9am and leaving at 3pm and govies getting $20,00 a year raises! And all those federal employees not paying social security taxes. So please support us while we camp out at your government building wrecking it in the name of corruption. Enjoy.

  50. aislander says:

    Economics doesn’t care how much you need something cclngthr; merely if you can pay for it. Minimum wage people can’t pay for a lot of things, but the good thing is: most people don’t STAY on minimum wage.

    Did you hear that some government entity wants to regulate unpaid internships, making it even MORE difficult to get one’s foot on that first rung?

  51. Just think…if we paid police officers minimum wage, we could hire more police officers for added safety (chuckle)

    More minimum wage teachers will mean lower class size…..

    This is fun.

  52. tree_guy says:

    Kardnos-If we lowered the pay for police officers and teachers we COULD hire more of them. You make that sound like a bad thing.

  53. tree_guy says:

    Why can’t anyone in the public sector work for minimum wage? Why is the minimum wage good enough for the private sector workers but not good enough for public workers?

  54. tree_guy says:

    We’ve been waiting years for “well paying jobs” xring. It’s just becoming an unattainable goal. Nobody is going to deliver this. Why don’t we do something BOLD that might jump start the economy? Would you agree to a 2 year TRIAL moritorium on the minimum wage law and watch to see what happens? The country is just about out of options.

  55. Kardnos-If we lowered the pay for police officers and teachers we COULD hire more of them. You make that sound like a bad thing.

    Hold me back….LMAO

  56. Why can’t anyone in the public sector work for minimum wage? LOL

    Maybe…and I’m just spitballing here…the work force that is required to pay for an education for the pleasure of serving idiots in the public arena won’t work for minimum wage and they can’t find people to take the jobs for such wages.

    I hate to break this to you, Tree, but not every government worker is part of a union contract. Maybe the non-union workers would sign up for your idea of a lower wage. How about the management people? There is no contractural obligation to pay them scale. Let them work for minimum….

    I can just imagine the quality employee that the state would find to deal with testing architects and engineers to see if they know their stuff to qualify for licensing…..

  57. The “country is broke”….but we keep coming up with the ability to pay big bucks to folks like Halliburton….

    Why was I born good looking instead of rich. I could be making a pile of money off these rubes…..

  58. Let’s jump start the economy….

    Cut everyone’s wages so that they have less money to spend….

    Oh gawd….I can’t stand myself…I’m gonna watch TV…this is beyond even my sick sense of humor…

  59. Fibonacci says:

    tree_guy
    You get what you pay for? Do you really want to trust your public safety to a policeman willing to work for minimum wage or have your kids taught by someone willint to do that job for, what did you say, $4.00 per hour?

  60. Wait…I figured out the answer to our economy…

    All the commercial landlords should cut the rent to their tenants by 50%. With the extra money, the businesses could pay their employees more, thus they would spend more in the marketplace, fueling the jump start on economic recovery.

    Sorry for being so slow on this….

  61. aislander says:

    I love the mindset that if you pay more for something, it is WORTH more. You know what disproves that axiom? Government workers!

  62. aislander says:

    So…xring…we ALL want plenty of well-paying jobs, but, unless each job at least pays for ITSELF (which is really not enough), where will that money come from?

  63. commoncents says:

    It’s nto a matter of worth but more a matter of attractiveness. If you offer more pay then you get a higher quality of applicant. However, you do have to be realistic about the job requirements as well. Don’t want to pay Astrophysicist pay or receive that level of performance for a janitorial position…

  64. tree_guy says:

    Kardnos, why don’t you hire some people at family wage levels to move your piano after your gigs? You’re always spouting off about low paying jobs. Why don’t you walk the talk?

  65. aislander says:

    So…commoncents…if people ARE willing to work for less than you “fairness” folk think is enough (and prospective teachers always have been), why SHOULD the taxpayers be on the hook to pay more? The results we’ve been getting argue that there is NO correlation between compensation and the transfer of learning.

    Or do you guys hate the market just THAT much?

  66. My piano weighs about 10 lbs, Tree. I’m a big boy. I can even move a 40 lb speaker.

    No one says you HAVE TO higher anyone. If I did need to higher someone, I certainly wouldn’t complain about wages. My practice has been to pay them well and require good performance.

    For instance, I frequently contract other musicians for combo work. The MINIMUM I pay is $100 for a three hour performance – thus $33/hr playing time.

    Now….what was it you were saying that I should do????

  67. aislander is running the race to the bottom….

  68. Oh….LOL…

    hire….not “higher”….LMAO

    I’ve been spending too much time with Conservatives

  69. Of course, I am talking musicians…therefore “higher” may be the correct term….

  70. tree_guy says:

    Kardnos, you want aislander to hire someone to empty his wastebasket but you refuse to hire someone to carry your piano. aren’t you being just a little….what’s the word…oh yeah, inconsistant?

  71. tree_guy says:

    Liberals want everyone to be provided a family wage job.

    Let’s assume that means $50K per year. Let’s see. 15,000,000 unemployed people multiplied by $50,000 per year equal 75 followed by 10 zeroes. I think that is $750 Trillion per year. That would be 5 times the GDP of the entire US.

    Please inform us of the tax plan or loopholes you are going to cut in order to achieve this wage goal.

  72. tree_guy says:

    In the professional music business, entertainers usually hire roadies to move their gear. Kardos don’t be so greedy, share your wealth some of the out of work people in our country.

  73. tree_guy says:

    error in my math shown above. Its not 5 times the GDP, but rather 50 times the GDP.

  74. commoncents says:

    First off – address me as an individual please. I belong to no group and especially not a “you guys” group. I respect you and your thoughts and ideas, please show me the same courtesy. Thank you in advance.

    Now to your point. I am arguing for the market. If you are compensating at a higher level then the market will produce a higher quality of applicant. You do not pay at a level that is “enough”. You pay at a level that will draw the quality of applicant that you and thae job requires. You simply can’t pay at a minimal rate and then complain about the quality of the employee. You use compensation (total comp which includes benefits) as an attraction to create a demand for those jobs.

    As for teachers (per your transfer of learning), studies have clearly shown that student performance for first year teachers is substantially lower than their peers with more experienced teachers. So minimal turnover is critical for an individual student… Additionally, student performance improves with experience before it maxes (5-10 years in depending on the study). Given that the scale does have a max on it – I would think that ties in very well.

    I want to be very clear here. I am not advocating paying a teacher more – even if they went year round (which I’ve recently changed my mind on). I think they are fairly paid for the job they do. However, I don’t believe that we can afford turnover in this field so we must maintain a reasonable level of compensation. Right now we have that.

  75. aislander says:

    I’m not seeing how to get back to the top of the thread in this new format. Suggestions for accomplishing that, please…

  76. Tree_guy…”in the music business”…

    First, don’t speak of things you know nothing about. “the music business” is about 90% local artists and 10% tours. 90% of the artists tote their own gear because we’re not charging $100 a head for the privilege of hearing us.

    If you don’t mind, I’d rather pay musicians $33/hr for hauling their gear, as opposed to roadies at minimum wage. The musicians seem OK with that arrangement.

    More people making liveable wages.

  77. tree_guy….I love your conservative math skills.

    In your computations, you forgot on element….with 15 million people employed at 50K per annum…the GDP increases.

    You must be a riot at tax time….LOL

  78. Tree….I don’t care if aislander hauls his own waste. Look at what he does daily on this forum.

  79. tree_guy says:

    Kardnos, if you only make $100 for playing your piano you’re not really in the “music business.” Its just a hobby/job. Also, who says you have to pay roadies minimum wage? You can pay them a living wage. That’s what you are always recommending for all the other employers in town. I think I understand, high wages are for other employers. Miserly wages are for your hires. Pretty hard for sidemen in the kardnos kombo when he only pays an occasional $100. Where do they live, in their cars?

  80. tree_guy says:

    aislander, I don’t know how to go back to the beginning of the thread. There’s no obvious place to select. Let me know if you find out.

  81. “Kardnos, if you only make $100 for playing your piano you’re not really in the “music business.” Its just a hobby/job.”

    Your reading skills are about as good as your math. MINIMUM $100

    Now…depending on how many days a year one performs (sometimes more than once a day)…a minimum of $100 adds up…sort of like denying funding to Planned Parenthood for the purpose of stopping the national debt…something you conservatives said was “every little bit helps”.

    Personally, I’d rather have a “hobby” that pays me money, than one that costs me money….but that’s just me….

  82. “Pretty hard for sidemen in the kardnos kombo when he only pays an occasional $100. Where do they live, in their cars?”

    Most musicians teach lessons, work “day jobs”, do studio work, book with multiple acts and so forth to make their living. It’s sort of like McDonalds selling fries with every meal. Many, like me, own recording equipment and sell that service to those that don’t. It all adds up to profits.

    One artist with whom I work teaches private lessons and a theory class at a private college and because of his incredible reading skills, he is hired by touring acts in need of his talent. It all adds up to a nice living and a home.

    Do you want to keep going on this, or are you embarrassed enough now?

    By the way..what did you think of my idea of lowering commercial rents by 50% so that businesses could pay their employees more money, thus prividing them more money to spend and infuse the economy?

  83. I wonder if a commercial land owner could make a living by renting only one property?

  84. tree_guy says:

    My rents are a function of demand. I could rent my spaces for 50% of what I currently rent them for. It’s all dependent on demand. The only reason that musicians are willing to work for only $100 per night is that there is virtually no demand for their services. Interesting that you favor high pay for teachers but low pay for your employees so that they need to find all kinds of other side jobs just to live. Don’t be so greedy Kardos, let some of the moths fly out of your wallet.

  85. treeguy is (unintentionally) being very honest about capitalism and America: it can not provide everyone with the wages they need to feed and clothe their families…….not if we intend to continue to provide CEOs with millions in bonuses on top of their millions in guaranteed compensation packages.

  86. Could someone tell me how you can navigate to see the older comments?

    This format really sux.

  87. Oh…and Tree….since you are worried about the welfare of local talent, another of my associates live on music because he already paid off his home and has no bills other than utilities, food and clothing.

    As a banker friend of mine once said…”there are two ways to financial success…one way is more money and the other is less bills”

    Then there is the pianist from Seattle who was contracted by a major network sports VP who wanted to use his compositions for segues from golf and tennis broadcasts to commercials. His first check was in excess of $20,000. Add that up with the sale of his recordings in the 48 contingent states through a gift store distribution system and you have a nice chunk of change…not to mention his performance fees increased….

  88. In tree’s world it’s good to have “demand” on rent…it’s back to have “demand” on wages.

    Union negotiations are nothing more than the marketplace demonstrating demand.

    Thanks for playing, tree. I knew you’d cough it up sooner or later…

    I’m still wondering how $33 per hour minimum is “low wages”.

    Commercial rentals “been beddy beddy guude to treeman” (doing my best Chico Escuela immitation)

    I think what tree is saying is he wants me to make money, regardless of if I’m providing services to clients…which is the kind of thing a slumlord would do….

  89. tree_guy says:

    Wow kardy, all these months you’ve been bad mouthing all the private employers in town who don’t pay a living wage and, lo and behold, we learn that you’re one of the biggest cheapskate employers around. Looks like Kardy is leading the “race to the bottom.”

  90. beerBoy…I think that feature is past tense….

  91. Cheapskates pay $33/hr.

    I wonder what slumlords pay those who perform work for them….

    Wanna bet “illegal worker” could be part of the answer?

  92. tree_guy says:

    So if the guys were only needed for one set you wouldn’t even pay them the full $100? They’d only get $33? Better stop now Kardy. You’re starting to embarass yourself.

    I can’t speak to the issue of slumlords. I’m not familiar with that business.

  93. One set is one performance. A performance can be one hour or three hours. I don’t charge by “sets”.

    Your ignorance on the subject is screaming….

  94. Oh…yeah…a one hour performance would pay $100 per….

    2003. Opening act at a casino – 7 players, 60 minute performance. $1,000 Divide that by 7….

  95. Islander – ‘where will the money come from’ – for starters;

    the Federal Government can be held to the ‘Buy American Rule’,

    all imported goods can be taxed at 9% imported goods, and

    all goods formerly made by a US company in America can be taxed at 18%.

  96. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Since the majority of goods are imported, you are basically adding 9% to the cost of everything, from car to TVs to produce. It would affect the bottom earners more than the top. Very well thought out plan.

  97. Let’s give up and let our country become a consumer of goods manufactured abroad.

    Now…if we can only figure out how to make money to buy said goods….

    I know!!! CREDIT!!!!!!!!!!

  98. commoncents says:

    Let’s give up and let our country become a consumer of goods manufactured abroad.

    Now…if we can only figure out how to make money to buy said goods….

    I know!!! CREDIT!!!!!!!!!!

    ——-

    Too late! Unfortunately a service society will not last long as we are already finding out.

  99. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Allow businesses to produce in America. Environmental regs alone push great amounts of business overseas. NLRB ref Boeing- yup, makes America a great place for business. Cost of labor- look at the wages of the UAW. Look at the auto bailouts and what they did to owners of the debt. Obamacare. All reasons why producing in the US is economically a poor decision. On top of that, with the majority of US students majoring in useless crap, we are not making the skilled professionals needed to build/design complex goods.

    Blame the left for our current issues. Environmental extremists, NLRB and auto bailouts propping up unions, healthcare costs out of control (tort reform?), and a partisan nightmare multiplied by out of control spending and a huge deficit.

  100. Concerned,
    But Cain wants to tax everyone at 9%, plus another 9% federal sales tax.

    His solution is to tell the poor to ‘buy used food’, mine is to buy American.

    Funny, but before St Ronnie slew the evil air-traffic-controllers unions the US had a strong economy. Now after 30 some odd years of union busting and trickle up voodoo economy we are we are the debtor nation.

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