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ECONOMY: Nation needs common sense policies

Letter by David S. Tronson, Fircrest on Aug. 26, 2011 at 11:20 am with 78 Comments »
August 26, 2011 2:38 pm

Much blame has been put on one particular political party or movement on the recent debt ceiling debate breakdown which became the basis for Standard & Poor’s downgrade of U.S. debt. This conclusion seems overly simplistic.

Irrespective of the judgment of an agency that so badly botched the credit quality ratings of mortgage securities during the housing boom from 2004-2007, I believe it is time for American citizens to logically question whether either political party in this country has the expertise to truly enact common sense policies that can drive sustained economic growth. This in turn will expand the tax base and help reduce the federal deficit substantially over time.

The key question for America is do we want to become Europe, or do we want to keep the United States a vibrant economic power built on its history of self-reliance, innovation and determination?

Leave a comment Comments → 78
  1. old_benjamin says:

    “I believe it is time for American citizens to logically question whether either political party in this country has the expertise to truly enact common sense policies that can drive sustained economic growth.

    No, neither one does. They should stop it with the endless fiddling and leave the economy to private enterprise. What Congress and the President can’t do is what private business has been doing for centuries–providing goods and services that the public wants at a price it can afford.

    Keynes died over 60 years ago. Predictably, the evil that he did lives after him.

  2. Common Sense: Common sense is of all things in the world the most equally distributed, for everybody thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that even those most difficult to please in all other matters do not commonly desire more of it than they already possess. (Descartes)

  3. old_benjamin says:

    Right, Keynes was a genius. That’s why the “stimulus” plan was so successful in stimulating the economy and bringing unemployment down.

    Of course, to hear the Keynesian Paul Krugman tell it, the stimulus just wasn’t large enough.

    There are some things so stupid that only an economist would say them.

  4. Ben…..what did the Stimulus do for Texas? They took $7 Billion.

  5. old_benjamin says:

    Kardnos, better spent by the states than by the feds, if spent it must be. $100 billion in annual Medicare waste is what the feds do for us.

  6. Sadly, many people in the U.S. today would, if they were being honest, answer your question with a resounding…”Yes! we want to become Europe!” Never mind what’s going on in Europe; never mind the exceptional life Americans have lived for two hundred years.

  7. Keynes was very specific in his formulas. The stimulus was underfunded by about 50%. What results would one expect in that case?
    You deniers are totally under-informed and from that one can conclude you are less than intelligent.
    Have a nice weekend because next week will be difficult for the intellectually challenged.

  8. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Great post TGR. Jars is broken record of pathetic talking points. $7bil of stimulus that actually has a long term, positive effect on a state and he whines about it. I guess Texas could have started one if those ‘green’ companies that are doing so well in Washington and Oregon!

  9. LarryFine says:

    Shucks… I missed the “L”

  10. theglovesRoff says:

    :-)

  11. concernedtacoma7 says:

    So we are supposed to form our economic policy based on an exact formula written by a guy who died before the bulk of America was born? A system designed

  12. bobcat1a says:

    Those who most strongly disparage Keynes seem to find the Laffer (laughter) curve a viable economic model. Weird.

  13. concernedtacoma7 says:

    One has been proven successful, one is theory which has failed time and again.

  14. ::::::shaking his head:::::::::

    What is with the “become like Europe” meme? What, exactly, is that supposed to mean?

    I would think that, regarding the economy, a better meme would be “become more like the US was before the 80s and we had the strongest manufacturing base in the world”.

  15. the3rdpigshouse says:

    A suggestion for “become like Europe” – The dismantling of the military and private enterprise in support of government regulation and the welfare state!

  16. “Irrespective of the judgment of an agency that so badly botched the credit quality ratings of mortgage securities during the housing boom from 2004-2007,”

    They are crooks!!! Why aren’t they in jail?

    “I believe it is time for American citizens to logically question whether either political party in this country has the expertise to truly enact common sense policies that can drive sustained economic growth. This in turn will expand the tax base and help reduce the federal deficit substantially over time.”

    What common sense policies are you suggesting to drive economic growth?

  17. Dave98373 says:

    “A suggestion for “become like Europe” – The dismantling of the military and private enterprise in support of government regulation and the welfare state!”
    …Not to mention very high taxes and and where the use of deodorant is strongly discouraged.

  18. It’s fascinating how “two” readers comment almost identical…..

    The worst thing a Conservative hears is truth. Their favorite ammunition is a baseless assertion.

  19. lession we need to learn from Europe is that the extreams don’t work thus we need a balaced approach – neither too much or too little but just enough.

  20. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Kard, republicans are living in a world of fact, where you and your left wing extremists live on ‘hope’.

    Europe’s model of a shrinking capital base supporting a socialist government is failing. Their open borders and multiculturalism have lead to a society segregated to a level not seen in the US since the 60’s.

  21. davehill90 says:

    Yes.. FDR was a genius too, keeping us depressed the way current manic progressive depressives are

  22. davehill90 says:

    They know they’re failing.. their ship is going down Concerned… they just hope the tipping point, corrupt funding, and vote stealiing will keep them in power despite their totally flawed ideology

  23. aislander says:

    xring writes: “…we need a balaced approach…”

    …which is exactly what the Founders set up with respect to the power of government. That has been more and more out of balance for about a hundred years, and is now reaching the point of foundering (ala Europe)…

  24. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    August 27, 2011 at 1:17 pm
    Kard, republicans are living in a world of fact, where you and your left wing extremists live on ‘hope’. ”

    Here’s a sample of Republican “fact”:

    1. “The Stimulus didn’t work”
    2. Texas took $7 Billion in Stimulus funds.
    3. Texas balanced their budget with Stimulus funds

  25. Oh my gaaawsh! Republicans live on fact?

    Republicans deny evolution in favor of Creationism, reject what 98 out of 100 scientiests conclude about global warming because it doesn’t align with their ideology, claimed there were WMDs in Iraq, claimed our economy was on solid footing and doing just fine in early 2008, nurtured rumors that the president is a Muslim and not an American citizen, and that he presented a false birth certificate.

    Republicans claimed the president’s health care plan will lead to euthanasia, that people will not be able to choose their own doctors, and that there will be health care rationing.

    And the biggest non-facts of all: Republicans claimed to put the put the “Country First”, and claimed “Moral superiority.

    Facts? Republicans are the Pinnochios of politics

  26. The right-wing obsession with France, stems in part, from France’s failure to follow the U.S.into our poorly executed, costly war in Iraq.

    But France has a lot going for it. Their poverty rate is low and their economy is doing better than ours, yet they’ve gone green and they have one of the best health care systems in the world. Their taxes are generally higher than ours, yet many of their wealthy are following Warren Buffet’s suggestion and are advocating higher taxes on themselves.

    Why is, what the right-wing call a socialist country, doing better economically than we are?

  27. aislander says:

    Well, cirrus, if opinions are facts, your last two posts are filled with them–ambiguity intended. At least that’s my opinion…

  28. aislander says:

    Sum-one wrote: “It’s fascinating how ‘two’ readers comment almost identical…..”

    Not when one is quoting the other. There was a poster on this forum who used to close every comment with “Pathetic.” Where is he now when we need him?

  29. Concerned – why do Conservatives say “the stimulus didn’t work” and then trumpet the success of the stimulus in Texas?

    Now….did you get it this time?

    It has nothing to do with “fear” (which makes no sense in a contextual frame anyway) It has to do the the constant hypocrisy and contradictory statements of the Right.

    I left the 2×4 next to you so that you can hit yourself in the head before reading the comment and save me the energy.

  30. concernedtacoma7 says:

    $7bil out of $800bil not wasted on failed programs, that is your point? One has to agree that every dollar was wasted, not just the majority? And Texas spent it on paying down the debt. If you were a fiscal conservative from Texas, would you not see that as a prudent use of funds? As I pointed out texas, as a share of population and the economy, will end up paying for a greater share of the stimulus than they received.

    Save that 2×4, you may need it to heat your house if BHO’s dream of $10+per gallon of gas ever comes true.

  31. Tacoma aroma7 says, “And if France is your ideal, go move there.”

    Where did I say, or hint that France was my ideal. I merely stated some facts in general, which facts, are not hard to find.

    Using your logic.., If minimal government is your ideal, go move to Somalia.

    So once again, another conservative finds it necessary to promote his empty ideology by exaggerating and distorting someone’s comment.

    How pathetic.

  32. Both parties can take some blame in the major 3 areas of selling us out, graft, and chicanery… bubble markets, corporate/campaign set up, and free tread

    Yes they both share blame in the real estate debacle – bubble… now unwinding the wind out of the now farting air overblown balloon economy… that is where we sometimes get wrong, or jump to the conclusion that the Bush economy was all good.. creating jobs. Nuh uh … his economy was based on nefarious housing that mostly Democrats were responsible for.. Republicans went along not so much with the chicanery as the ideas of wanting folks to own homes. Both parties say they’re for the little guy – but need that fix of money [power] from corporate favors – but don’t tell me of corpoate welfare.. a cute term, but not applicable where we have the highest corporate rate… only offer back kick backs for campaign funds.. It’s like criticising Rick Perry’s Texas for getting stimulus.. they like someother states pay way more in than they get back in taxations. On free trade, one thing they have done is make it listed where a product is manufactured.. though these labelings can be somewhat misleading. It’s stil up to US

  33. Concerned…read this real slow…..how did the “stimulus” fail when it was a “miracle” for Texas?

    It’s all hypocrisy and contradiction.

  34. Dave said – “It’s like criticising Rick Perry’s Texas for getting stimulus.. they like someother states pay way more in than they get back in taxations.

    Is Texas really getting more for less? The most recent state-by-state analysis of federal tax burdens and spending by the Washington-based Tax Foundation, a business-backed tax policy group. It covers the 25-year period between 1981 and 2005.

    According to the analysis, Texans paid about $147 billion in federal taxes in 2005 while the state received $149 billion in federal spending.

    Just one more example of say whatever comes to your mind, regardless of truth.

  35. Nothing to support these statements:

    “As I pointed out texas, as a share of population and the economy, will end up paying for a greater share of the stimulus than they received.”

    “BHO’s dream of $10+per gallon of gas ever comes true.”

    Just a tip, Concerned….don’t try heating your home with gasoline….

  36. “And most of the spendulus was a slush fund to pay back BHO’s supporters. That didn’t “save or create jobs”.

    Prove it or *%&#$^@
    So many mentally challenged, so little time.

  37. aislander says:

    So…Publico…the lion’s share of the “stimulus” money DIDN’T end up going to state and local governments and NOT into the private economy (and not into “infrastructure”)? DO tell…

  38. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Exactly. Where is our Hoover Dam? Where are the port and rail improvements (freight)?

  39. Concerned:
    But who is to say is proven and which has failed.

    Republican fact – tax cuts for the rich are good for the American worker and Free Trade Zones are good for our economy.

    So the money loaned to GM was wasted but the $4 billion to the Oil Industry was money well spent.

    Half the stimulus funds have yet to be spent.

    Port and rail improvements – the Rpots are in discussion with China to come over and do both in order using undocumented aliens to prevent American Unions from stealing the stimulus funds for their own nefarious ends.

    Davehill90,
    ‘They know they’re failing . . ‘ what an accurate and precise description of the Republicon Party and their policies.

    Islander,
    What the Founding Fathers set up is foundering because we have lost our way putting the needs of the few (the rich and big business) before the needs of the many and the needs of the Country as a whole.

    Your opinion about cirrus’ posts is wrong, IMO.

  40. Col. Andrew Bacevich knows war well. He graduated from West Point, fought in Vietnam, then earned a Ph.D. and became a professor at Boston University. His son was killed in action in Iraq in 2007.

    Dr. Bacevich now scorns America’s role as the sole remaining military superpower. He expressed his contempt in a book, The New American Militarism: How Americans are Seduced by War. He said Americans love military swagger, such as former President Bush playing “Top Gun” as he landed in uniform on an aircraft carrier before a “Mission Accomplished” banner.

    “Today, as never before in their history, Americans are enthralled with military power,” he wrote. If the U.S. “militaristic cast of mind” continues, he said, “America will surely share the fate of all those who in ages past have looked to war and military power to fulfill their destiny. We will rob future generations of their rightful inheritance. We will wreak havoc abroad. We will endanger our security at home. We will risk the forfeiture of all that we prize.”

    Last week, writing in the Los Angeles Times, Dr. Bacevich said a “new world order” is rising, with various nations booming economically while America pours hundreds of billions into militarism — burdened by “too many obligations piled high without the wherewithal to meet them.”

    He said Washington indulges “the fiction of American omnipotence — persisting in our penchant for fighting distant wars of dubious purpose.” He added that “spending hundreds of billions vainly attempting to pacify Afghanistan is unlikely to help much.”

    He wrote that “Washington has become an intellectual dead zone” where “shoveling money into the maw of the military-industrial complex seems the top Republican priority.”

    http://wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/201108240956

  41. And….it seems the TARP was the tip of the iceberg – Without reporting it, 10 biggest banks in America received $669 billion in emergency loans from the Fed.

    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/rj-eskow/38095/what-that-expose-of-the-feds-secret-bailout-told-us-and-what-it-didnt

    Note the comments that follow the article……Obama is not faring well with the members of Smirking Chimp (I was banned from there about five years ago because I didn’t march lockstep with their ideology). Really folks…..how can Obama be a “socialist/marxist” if the Dem loyalists (hardly that far Left) are disavowing him for being too far Right?

  42. Where are the “shovel ready jobs”?

    You mean all of the highway projects that have slowed me down during my summer vacations the past few years?

    btw – if WA didn’t use the funds well, that isn’t D.C.’s fault. I’m surprised you “state’s rights” folks don’t know that.

  43. aislander says:

    beerBoy writes: “…how can Obama be a “socialist/marxist” if the Dem loyalists (hardly that far Left) are disavowing him for being too far Right?”

    Easy. Sister Souljah with a reverse twist…

  44. How much of the 900 Billion was “tax cuts”

    I shall not “shut up” while there is truth to be found.

    Then there is the real truth about Stimulus that takes intellect to consider.

    From David Francis, Christian Science Monitor:

    In early 2009, Obama and Congress pushed through an $862 billion package of stimulus spending and tax cuts. By mid-summer the economy began to recover at a very slow pace. Most economists in the United States, with the exception of some economists in the conservative Austrian School, figure that without the 2009 stimulus, the economy would be in worse shape today.

    As we of brain power know….you can’t measure the things that didn’t happen

  45. Oh..and 900 billion, was actually 862….but what is an extra 38 billion when you are telling falsehoods?

  46. “A Sister Souljah moment is a politician’s public repudiation of an extremist person or group, statement, or position perceived to have some association with the politician or the politician’s party. Such an act of repudiation is designed to signal to centrist voters that the politician is not beholden to traditional, and sometimes unpopular, interest groups associated with the party, although such a repudiation runs the risk of alienating some of the politician’s allies and the party’s base voters.”

    I see…it’s a conspiracy because leftists are not able to break the binds to Obama.

    This an other fairytales will be presented by the Republican Party at convenient times.

    Pardon me if I ::::::::::::::::::eyeroll:::::::::::::

    We know that Republican candidates would never use such a ploy……

  47. At the risk of being called out for “off topic” during the Obamathon….

    When will the Republicans come out and say the Administration didn’t do anything during the hurricane? We’ve already had two Senators say Obama didn’t finish Libya soon enough.

  48. The Conservative’s interest in “shovel ready jobs”…….

    It’s a three word phrase.

  49. ItalianSpring says:

    “Much blame has been put on one particular political party or movement on the recent debt ceiling debate breakdown which became the basis for Standard & Poor’s downgrade of U.S. debt.”

    Yes. For the first time ever in the history of the world, the US credit rating has been downgraded, and during the “jobless recovery”. The lib response to the result of their ideology? Investigations into S&P- as though the downgrade was politically motivated. Typical marxist behavior from the immature man-child. What was the indonesian’s personal credit score during the Clinton years? Thug life baby.

  50. More racist code???

    ::::head shaking:::::

  51. Then there is FOX….

    Monica Crowley On Fox: “We Need An Investigation” Of S&P … But This Investigation Of S&P Looks Bad because Obama is President”

  52. ItalianSpring says:

    “ECONOMY: Nation needs common sense policies”

    Almost there, but not quite.

    It should read “ECONOMY: Nation needs Conservatism.” With a capital C.

    More racist code.

  53. aislander – the Smirking Chimp site is populated with Dem loyalists who thought Clinton was great – hardly the Sister Souljah segment – but nice try.

  54. aislander says:

    Nevertheless, beerBoy, it is in the electoral interest of Obama to be portrayed as other than loony left. Having the loons VISIBLY angry with him certainly serves that purpose…

  55. I-S,
    The investigation into S&P’s practices began long before the down grade and included S&P actions during the Mortgage Back Securities fiasco.

    And since S&P is the only credit rater that downgraded the US credit a reasonable person would have to consider that the downgrade was in retaliation for the investigation.

  56. aislander says:

    It occurs to me that, in stressing the need to stimulate demand, lefties don’t really WANT an economic recovery.

    After all, a vibrant economy means less need for the salutary ministrations of government, and, therefore, of lefties IN government.

    Most of all though, stimulating demand gives lefties an excuse to do what they really WANT to do: take from the productive and transfer to the clients of the left…

  57. aislander – your caricatures of the Left are verging upon the fantabulous rants of others on this board who don’t share your intelligence.

  58. aislander says:

    Lefties DON’T want to take from those who have and hand the spoils over to those who have not, in exchange for their votes and continuing roles as clients?

  59. aislander says:

    I believe I am reasonably articulate, beerBoy–although I have my doubts when I read over some of my old posts–but that doesn’t mean I am any smarter than others who post here. I am constantly amazed by their insights and abilities to plow through material that makes my eyes cross. But, thank you for the compliment…

  60. Republicons only give to the rich and big businesses so the Rpots can pay to steal votes.

  61. “beerBoy says:
    August 28, 2011 at 3:55 pm
    aislander – your caricatures of the Left are verging upon the fantabulous rants of others on this board who don’t share your intelligence.

    aislander says:
    August 28, 2011 at 5:29 pm
    …thank you for the compliment…

    :::::::Kardnos holds laughter:::::::

  62. We don’t have any ‘citizen legilators’ anymore.. both sides of the aisle have gotten into bed, as career politicians with lobbying.. elite, bigger then life [in their own minds] establishment one party of big government fools… taking us down the road of free tread and free reign also of spending like drunk sailors in a brothel after months at sea and tyranny

  63. ItalianSpring says:

    xring-cite your sources

  64. xring – the cited article’s headline is more than a little misleading: how could the investigation be “revenge” when it was launched prior to the S&P downgrade?

  65. “And since S&P is the only credit rater that downgraded the US credit a reasonable person would have to consider that the downgrade was in retaliation for the investigation. “

    I can’t believe I am actually clarifying a post by xring…

    What I believe he is saying (taking liberties by the way) is that as a result of the investigation by the US Government of the mortgage rating thingy with S&P as the focus… that S&P was childish and decided to downgrade the US credit rating…. tit for tat BS…

    Kinda like – you investigate me and I will downgrade you (even though your debt is 90+ percent of GDP and you just authorized another trillion annnnd you get another trillion after a bulldonger commission does it nuts annnd your savings, well are laughable….)

    I am sure my emblelishments had nothing to do with the downgrade…

  66. “…reasonable person…”

    xring using a reasonable person standard… that kills me…

    bb – baiting ain’t I?

  67. bBoy and xx, read the article, and klick on the and click the hyper link ‘under investitation’

  68. “The investigation into S&P’s practices began long before the down grade and included S&P actions during the Mortgage Back Securities fiasco.”

    Ok, can’t disagree with you here… we just gotta wait for the results of the investigation.

    “And since S&P is the only credit rater that downgraded the US credit a reasonable person would have to consider that the downgrade was in retaliation for the investigation.”

    Speculation… rumour… propaganda…

    S&P got pissed so they downgraded America… waaaah.

    I need more that a news article.

    Like I said… “reasonable person” standard… from you…

    Cute, real cute…

  69. sorry xx, but so far s&p is the only one who has downgraded the US.

    that (as of today) is a and not open to discussion.

    as to why – as you say we will have to wait and see.

  70. “sorry xx, but so far s&p is the only one who has downgraded the US.”

    hmm, so what?

    “that (as of today) is a (fact?) and not open to discussion.”

    fact (if that is what you meant = true, it has happened. It is open to discussion but why speculate as to ulterior motives.

    “as to why – as you say we will have to wait and see.”

    gee, xring, thanks… that actually makes sense…

  71. bBoy,
    the revenge is S&P downgrading the US because the DOJ was investigating them.

  72. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Wait a minute xring, I thought you said we got downgraded because of the Tea Party?

    Now it’s because of a DOJ investigation? It can’t be because of our overspending. No, it just can’t be!

  73. aislander says:

    Nice catch, ct7! The nice thing about telling the truth is that you don’t have to worry about being consistent–it just happens…

  74. LarryFine says:

    ;)

  75. concerned,
    Sowm me the post.

  76. the revenge is S&P downgrading the US because the DOJ was investigating them.

    I understand how the facts could support that speculative conclusion – but it can’t be proven.

  77. theglovesRoff says:

    This is all I had time to dig up, but it does show an about face from xring.

    “xring says:
    AUGUST 8, 2011 AT 3:01 PM

    Taxed,
Boehner and the rpots got 98% of what they wanted, including no tax reform and only 2.7 trillion in cuts.

    Reasons cited by S&P for the downgrade include:

    Cuts were not deep enough – they wanted to see the President’s 3 trillion offer.
    There were not tax increases – they would have preferred the President’s 1 trillion tax code overhaul.

    And the intransigent refusal to compromise – especially by the ‘no tax, my way or default Rpots.’”

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