Letters to the Editor

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POLITICS: Don’t contribute to incumbents

Letter by Burney Huff, Lakewood on Aug. 16, 2011 at 1:39 pm with 98 Comments »
August 16, 2011 2:28 pm

Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz proposed to to his fellow CEOs that they suspend contributions to all incumbents at the national level of our government until the president and Congress get our country’s financial house in order. I support his proposal and believe that we need to adopt that policy at the individual level.

I have written to Sens. Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell and to Congressman Norm Dicks to inform them that I support Schultz’s proposal. We need to “starve the political beast” in D.C. until they act collectively to get our nation’s revenues and expenditures into a reasonable state of equilibrium.

I believe all our representatives are probably good people; but, they need to gather the courage to act for the good of the country, as a whole, instead of acting to support their parties and their re-election efforts. Congress will not change until the individual members stand up and act responsibly. I encourage others to consider sending this or a comparable message to our representatives.

 

Leave a comment Comments → 98
  1. I’m guessing he means all republicans as well.

  2. Blanket statements cover all things rather indiscriminately.

  3. “I have written to Sens. Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell and to Congressman Norm Dicks to inform them that I support Schultz’s proposal.”

    :::Note all the Republican congressional reps from Washington are missing:::

    This “starve the beast” mentality is a page right out the Republican playbook.

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2010/11/26/Bartlett-Starve-The-Beast.aspx#page1

  4. janisaimee says:

    How can this be a good idea? Schultz would have to be suggesting that my $10 here and $20 there is somehow a corrupting force. We are all well aware of what the corrupting force is and it’s big corporate money, not individual citizens. I can imagine what a great laugh the Koch Bro’s had a this suggestion. They might have said, ‘Great idea! That gets the ordinary citizen out of the game and only leaves us!’ If Schultz is really serious he must confront his contemporaries — the CEO’s. He could also tell his colleagues that their corporate contributions should be made pubic. In the meantime, I hope individuals will continue to assist their political interest with their small contributions — you are not the bad guys. The New York Times also has a very long and interesting discussion about Mr. Schultz’s suggestion.

  5. You should have heard the Starbucks corporate representative when I suggested that I’ll not spend anymore money in their stores because they allow people carrying guns there.

    I got the old “freedom” story. I guess Bucky Sr. doesn’t think that he can’t call it quits on his own, he has to start a boycott that he didn’t want in his stores.

    Remember, this is the guy that peddled the Sonics to OK City. You know he is making sure that this is good for all……..

  6. Soundlife says:

    lol, afraid of fellow citizens carrying guns at a Starbucks?
    Guess those rights delineated in the Bill of Rights get a little inconvenient?
    You know, freedom of speech, right to assembly, right to carry…
    Too bad the state can’t just tell everyone what to do like they do in North Korea??

  7. truthbusterguy says:

    They are all crooks. The only fix is TERM LIMITS.

    One good thing we have going for us is the democrats no longer have pork to bring back home. Norm Dicks can’t last without tons of pork to Kitsap County. Timefor Norm to retire and resume his career as a Mason County brush picker.

  8. newscrap says:

    So, Soundlife, you are in favor of people carrying guns WHERE EVER they please with no restrictions? How about bars (currentlly illegal), schools (currenty illegal), and so on?

    Kardnos
    I alo noticed that old Burney singled out the Democrats. I think the right wing nuts such as the Teapotters actually think that THEIR guys are perfectly reasonable and that those darned old Liberal Demoicrats are the fly in the ointment.

  9. What do guns and where they are carried have to do with campaign contributions?

    is this one of those red herrings, distractions, what?

  10. T-B-G,
    As if the Rcons didn’t take home more pork than the dems.
    Term limits are not an option. Campagin finance reform is what is needed, along with a reversal of Citizens United.

  11. LarryFine says:

    beerBoy says:
    August 16, 2011 at 2:54 pm
    Blanket statements cover all things rather indiscriminately.
    ….
    • beerBoy2 wrote on 07/08/2009 05:49:16 AM:
    snort! Palin people are such funny folks. Never ones to let reality get in the way of their beliefs.
    (that was after “arts” and… nevermind…)
    .
    Blanket much ?

    I could go on but… (it may be considered a “personal attack”)

  12. Soundlife says:
    August 16, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    lol, afraid of fellow citizens carrying guns at a Starbucks?”

    Soundlife….tell me how you’d feel if a young African American male, wearing all red, lots of tattoos walked into your coffee shop open carrying a handgun.

    How’s the Second Amendment working now?

  13. “xx98411 says:
    August 16, 2011 at 6:07 pm
    What do guns and where they are carried have to do with campaign contributions?”

    Try reading the comment before you take it from the ridiculous to the sublime and back.

    Starbucks asserted “freedom of choice” when I told them of my concern yet their CEO wants other CEOs to follow him, rather than make their own choice.

  14. bobcat1a says:

    If you think the big corporate contributors will boycott incumbents, you believe Lord Voldemort was the hero of the Harry Potter books. Your little $25, $50, or $100 is not even a sprinkle on the giant donut of campaign dollars.

  15. I promise not to contribute to Dave Reichert

  16. Soundlife says:

    Kardnos,
    I have no problem with anyone who is not an ex-convict open carrying a hand gun.
    Race/ethnicity has no bearing on it.
    I lived in Wyoming for five years and routinely open carried a hand gun, with a rifle in my pickup window.
    Never had a problem shopping, eating in restaurants, etc.
    I am routinely amazed at how many “Americans” in Western Washington routinely fear their God-given freedoms and seek to forfeit them

  17. Soundlife….

    Yeah….I’ll bet. I’d love to be there to witness your reaction.

    Oh…and “God given”??????? I guess God likes hand guns in some cultures but not in others.

    I can’t wait for the first time that a young black man walks into a public eatery openly wearing a handgun. I’m not sure who will move faster – the proprietor moving for the phone to dial 911 or the patrons leaving the premises.

  18. madmike272 says:

    Kardnos, that kid you described would be carrying wether or not Starbucks allowed it. Please grow up or get off the internet.

  19. Starbucks asserted “freedom of choice” when I told them of my concern yet their CEO wants other CEOs to follow him, rather than make their own choice.

    First let’s get facts straight, Starbucks response was to follow the law. If the state law allowed it then those stores affected by that law would allow it. State law that didn’t allow it, those stores would not allow it. The decision was to follow the law… I appluad Starbucks decision, not because they allow carry in their stores but becasue of the simple solution to the issue… follow the law, duh!

    back to contributions… Starbucks Schultz made the statement, others have “freedom of choice” to follow in his footsteps… or not. It is that simple.

  20. “Soundlife….tell me how you’d feel if a young African American male, wearing all red, lots of tattoos walked into your coffee shop open carrying a handgun.

    and you complain about frosty and his comment… hypocrite much???

  21. karnos says again:

    I can’t wait for the first time that a young black man walks into a public eatery openly wearing a handgun. I’m not sure who will move faster – the proprietor moving for the phone to dial 911 or the patrons leaving the premises.

    oh yeah… on second read, hypocrite much!!!

    Jesus dude and you have the gall to call out frosty.

  22. Larry – I had to write something pithy for you to add to your archives……

  23. I hate to tell you this but your plan to publish all those quotes from your archives isn’t going to pan out as I am never going become famous so no one will want to buy your book.

  24. newscrap says, “So, Soundlife, you are in favor of people carrying guns WHERE EVER they please with no restrictions? How about bars (currentlly illegal), schools (currenty illegal), and so on”

    Every time I read something like this I am reminded of my younger days, right here in Tacoma..in junior high school…ON school property, when I belonged to the Rifle Club! After school we would fire off .22 rifles into little paper targets! Yep, its true…..real rifles, real bullets…bang bang bang right on school property!!

    And it really wasn’t all that long ago either…Not to much before the hand wringing, panic mongers took over our society! HAAA!

  25. I figure that public school system experience in Tacoma is how I was able to be one of 4 people in my military unit to place 100 rounds out of 100 on target the FIRST time during M16 training. HAAA!! Isnt that a scary thought!! :D

  26. xx….still having trouble with the definition of “racist”?

  27. “madmike272 says:
    August 17, 2011 at 1:10 am
    Kardnos, that kid you described would be carrying wether or not Starbucks allowed it. Please grow up or get off the internet.”

    Oh…so African American young men who wear all red automatically carry weapons????

    Oh XXXxxxxx………….observe

  28. fbergford says:

    DCR…I believe Mt Tahoma still has a rifle team! I want to say I read about it in the TNT about a year or so ago. Kardnos…we’ve been over the gun thing…and we all figured out that you are scared of guns, you don’t know how to handle one, you have never been around them and so on. My next topic is contributing to any politician whether they have a D or an R behind their name doesn’t matter! Just don’t contribute anything to any politician! It’s that easy! I don’t know how anyone can get their panties tied up in a bunch for not agreeing with what this D-bag Schultz says.

  29. LarryFine says:

    … another thread down the crapper.

  30. Soundlife, I think you mean this to be an exaggeration…”Too bad the state can’t just tell everyone what to do like they do in North Korea” but the truth is there are a lot of people, both in and out of gov. offices who actually do think it’s the state’s place to not govern, but control, the people.

    Illustration, an old friend of mine with whom I have agreed to disagree on most current social dilemmas recently lauded the way the Norwegians refused to glorify or even recognize the lone gunman who killed all those people there recently. I said I appreciated it when the press acted responsibly in that regard and her comment was, “I think the government needs to censor the press.”

    This woman is not an extremist; not a radical. She is an ordinary person who happens to teach middle school (sure hope she keeps that censorship comment to herself, don’t you?) I believe this woman represents hundreds, no thousands of left-leaning voters who embrace a belief that the average citizen needs a government nanny in order to live responsibly.

    Clearly, several who post here demonstrate an alliance with this sort of thinking.

  31. “xx….still having trouble with the definition of “racist”? “

    Not at all. I, having been at the receiving end throughout my life, have experienced it. I am just not ready to call a remark that used Hispanic names racist… it is not and it is ridiculous to pretend it is.

    karnos – by your own definition you would have to call you own statements above racist. On a sane note, I don’t think they are. They exploit a stereotype and a reaction to that stereotype but not racist. Hence, frosty’s comment by your own use of a statement cannot be racist.

    Offer something more than one liners or let it go. This way I can think a certain perception instead of knowing it to be true.

  32. Oh XXXxxxxx………….observe

    Dude, what is there to observe, you haven’t made a point nor said anything that adds value… you’ve just made an assumption that is not true or valid.

  33. sorry Larry… I know I am not helping with my can of gasoline here…

  34. Ok, back on track.

    A better way is to donate ONLY to local candidates rather than to the National Parties or PACS.

    What is the difference between Unions donating funds without consent of the members and CEOs donating corporate funds without consent of the stockholders?

  35. What Americans want, and What America needs are living wage jobs with good benefits rather than minimum wage only jobs.

  36. On a related note to this snowballing tangent initiated by frosty:

    If your head is spinning, welcome to the Orwellian world of so-called post-racialism, where the new racists are people of color, along with anyone who still sees or speaks about racism. The new victims of racism are always white. Any effort to redress racism is itself racist.
    http://www.truth-out.org/reverse-racism-sad-misnomer-tragic-mississippi-murder/1313518071

  37. Xx,
    Your 03:42 post – Great comments – I’m with you – follow the law and exercise you right to free choice.

    All – the problem with free carry is the same as driving on a highway – I’m ok, but better watch out for all those other crazy fools.

  38. “and we all figured out that you are scared of guns”

    Prove you’re not. Point at yourself and pull the trigger.

    First of all….the issue I made was Schultz trying to encourage others to follow him, while his corporation talks a different line to protect their profit margin.

  39. xx…you are among those that would watch someone walk on water and say “see….he can’t swim”.

    Frosty’s use of hispanic surnames had a racial overtone to it and I’m sorry that ignorance prevents you from realizing.

  40. I see Harpo has graced us with his presence.

    HONK!!!

  41. Mt Tahoma has a JROTC program with “gun drills” (probably dummy guns), because….

    “It is against the Tacoma School District policy for a student to be in possession of any potentially dangerous weapon at school. Doing so will result in immediate disciplinary action. Possession of any firearms or air-guns, such as BB guns or “Airsoft” guns, will result in an immediate expulsion from school, and possible criminal prosecution.”

  42. xx…you are among those that would watch someone walk on water and say “see….he can’t swim”.

    you don’t know me so don’t even try to pretend you can read my mind and determine what I think…

    Frosty’s use of hispanic surnames had a racial overtone to it and I’m sorry that ignorance prevents you from realizing.

    I, as a Hispanic, used white names, black names, Jewish names, an Asian name, as well as some others… by your logic I am a racist too am I not?

    So what frosty used an Hispanic surname. So what, he used some names to make a point.

    How about this for a question, please tell me what names are appropriate to use for a white male on this discussion board to make a point about voter registration?

    Do the same rules apply to Hispanic posters… Black posters… Asian posters… Indian posters…

    What auditing process would you like to use to ensure that the name use rule is followed properly?

    Lastly, how do you know that frosty is not Hispanic and the use of Hispanic names was a colloquialism of… well being Hispanic…?

    You think John… and I guess I supposed to think… hmmm, Juan!?

    LMFAO

  43. xx…good luck trying to get the thoroughly indoctrinated to see your point.

  44. xx, good luck trying to get the thoroughly indoctrinated to see your point.

  45. theglovesRoff says:

    We got you point, sozo.

    :-)

  46. I’m glad I’m “indoctrinated” enough to know racism when I see it.

    Ignorance IS bliss

  47. Let’s open Pandora’s box on this forum, since the issue seems to interest so many….

    “frosty says:
    August 16, 2011 at 7:52 am
    Is it a coincidence that the only people who appear to be against voter I.D. are from the left side of the political world? If you want to see the the demise of the demokrat party, just require them to prove they are eligible to vote. How many times can Juan Gonzales and Pedro Hernandez vote in one election?”

    Now, dear readers, does it appear that “frosty” is maintaining that illegal voters are those with hispanic surnames as opposed to anyone that isn’t registered to vote……regardless of surname or possible heritage?

    Why isolate hispanic surnames when you could say “How many times can unregistered voters voter in one election?” One need not even say “unregistered” to identify an illegality with more than one vote.

    I’m confident that the intellectually honest can see the racist implication.

  48. “he used some names to make a point.”

    ABSOLUTELY.

  49. About racism, Kardnos…I wish Allen West would run for president so you could find out just what sort of folly informs your thinking. West is an African American I would very likely vote for (at least what I know about him at the moment). I know I’m glad he’s in Congress and part of the Black Caucus. Poor guy, it must be lonely for him at times surrounded by all the party line puppets he has to work with day in and day out.

  50. P.S. Kardnos, don’t let the reality suggested by my post above interfere with your prejudices. You do realize the root of prejudice is “pre-judgment” right…as in the way you tend to prejudge and pre-sume things about people you do not know at all.

  51. sozo….sadly, you think that racism and prejudice is about “color”.

    Since you brought up West….

    A controversial congressman has compared being gay to liking chocolate chip ice cream.

    U.S. Rep. Allen West, R-Fla., made those comments while on a break from Congress during a meeting with South Florida Sun-Sentinel editors and reporters Tuesday.

    When asked whether people should change their behavior and not be gay, West replied, “No. I like chocolate chip ice cream, and I will continue to like chocolate chip ice cream. So there’s no worry about me changing to vanilla. I like to, you know, ride my motorcycle. What do you want me to do? You want me to change my behavior and ride a scooter? I’m not into that.”

    You see, an African American person can stereotype with the best of them. Ignorance is colorblind.

  52. sozo…and don’t let my awareness stop your patronizing nature and your desire to deflect.

  53. theglovesRoff says:

    “sozo says:
    JULY 31, 2011 AT 8:48 AM
    I’ll bite Kardnos….
    ….Do us all a favor, and forget the race crap.”

    It looks like the only race baiter here is KARDNOS. He must have some serious issues. He sees race in every comment. He is like the diversity police at work. Maybe you just need to lighten up and not be so thin skinned that every word hurts. But with the liberal indoctrination that he appears to have gone through, it is not possible to lighten up and laugh it off.

    (I am sorry to use you for this sozo, but I bookmarked this when you posted it to see if there would be a response. Sadly, there wasn’t. And now the same thing is being played again by the usual suspect.)

  54. Karnos – once again you make the judgment based on the words of someone you know nothing about. One more time for fun here…

    One – how do you know that frosty is not Hispanic and is using names that are common to him and his culture.

    Two – based on your responses and the belief that using the Hispanic names have a racist implication (is that what it is now?) then by that logic, I as a Hispanic male, using the name John Smith or John Doe has racist implications since I am using a name that is different from my background, heritage.

    Three – you make an assumption that frosty “is maintaining that illegal voters are… blah, blah, blah… heritage?” How the heck do you know or surmise that? I submit it is your own bias and/or prejudice that clouds your judgment here.

    Four – I asked you previously and for the sake of the board I ask again, what are the approved surnames that a white male on this board use to avoid being suspect of “racist implications”? Does that apply to Hispanic, Black, Asian, Indian, etc…? Are women part of this also?

    Five – since we are “seeing” racism, can you please inform the board how frosty’s words posted and recently repeated by you leads you to believe that his comment provides a belief that his race (which is unknown) is superior and/or has a hatred or intolerance of another race or other races – at that based on his post.

    Six – I am speaking as a Hispanic male when I say please stop seeing racism when none exist. You are not helping any “minority” and I can plainly say I don’t need you or people like you to come to some sort of defense of something only you can see. It’s embarrassing, really it is.

  55. aislander says:

    By the way, beerBoy, those same billionaires would pay 0% in taxes on capital gains in Germany, Singapore, and eleven other nations. Three other countries (Japan, Italy, and Canada) have lower rates than we do…

  56. aislander says:

    Sorry. That last post ended up in the wrong thread…

  57. As I’ve said….ignorance is bliss.

    “Race baiting” is the latest excuse for allowing racism to perpetrate itself.

    xx…..I don’t know why you go to such lengths to support something so obvious.

  58. “I am speaking as a Hispanic male when I say please stop seeing racism when none exist.”

    Your Hispanic heritage doesn’t equate you as an expert in racism. I’ll not ignore what you choose to ignore.

  59. :::pondering why it is so important to xx that I change my observations on racism::

  60. ”:::pondering why it is so important to xx that I change my observations on racism:: “

    Change your mind, no that is not my purpose. I think you and people like you do no good and set conversations back when you find racism in a post where none exist. It is a cry of “wolf”.

    Criticize the President… racist. Let’s talk immigration… racist. Now we have a discussion on voter registration… of course… racist. The price of tea in China… racist???

    Though as you say I am no expert, what makes an expert? A slave that has been whipped bloody and scared… no he is not an expert on racism either, he is a victim of racism. A brown skin person, working the fields in the hot scorching sun… no, he no victim of racism. A person of color attempting to vote in an election who has no ID… no, he is no victim of racism, either.

    Not trying to change YOUR mind, just trying to provide a counterpoint to whatever you do that passes in your mind for a point.

  61. The most dangerous point is not knowing what racism really is.

    Criticism of the President is not racism. Contending he is Kenyan because of his color is.

    Insinuating that illegal voters are hispanic as opposed to possibly anyone is racist.

    A person beaten is abused, regardless of race. A slave can be any race.

    A person who works hard in the sun is a hard worker, regardless of race.

    Screening Hispanic voters BECAUSE OF THEIR HERITAGE is racist.

    The rest of your hyperbole is like minded.

  62. “The most dangerous point is not knowing what racism really is.”

    Dude, not every suspect word utter by some anonymous poster is coded for racism. Sometimes those words are just meant to… well, tweak a conversation or more specifically fish for a reaction.

    Not knowing what racism really is… I would refer to a mirror for this one.

    ”Criticism of the President is not racism. Contending he is Kenyan because of his color is.”

    Considering that most Kenyans are dark… kinda like the President, and big daddy was a Kenyan, are you really that naïve to think that Kenya was picked as opposed to Nigeria, Somalia, South Africa, etc… Second why do you and people like you react? Hmm, where’s my worms?

    ”Insinuating that illegal voters are hispanic as opposed to possibly anyone is racist.”

    Sometimes comments are just comments. I offered a comment that included Jews, Asians, and an Indian, does that make me racists or can it be considered my attempt to keep that Jesse J. rainbow coalition feeling going.

    ”A person beaten is abused, regardless of race. A slave can be any race.”

    Yep, true that…

    ”A person who works hard in the sun is a hard worker, regardless of race.”

    Yep, true that…

    ”Screening Hispanic voters BECAUSE OF THEIR HERITAGE is racist.”

    That also would be a true statement if that were done (it is also illegal by the way) but what is being proposed is a process to ensure that American citizens and only American citizens who are privileged to have the duty to vote can identify themselves as such and do so proudly…. once.

    We do really need to keep the riff-raff out of the voting booths.

    By the way, am I a racist because I offered the following…

    “How many times can John Smith, Ahmed, Moshe, Muhammad, Darnell, Jamal, Chan, Redbone, Kalisha, Juan, Pedro… really how many times can they vote in one election?”

  63. “That also would be a true statement if that were done”

    It’s already done in terms of “legal” in Arizona. A dark skinned person can be ID’d because of their heritage.

    “Considering that most Kenyans are dark… kinda like the President, and big daddy was a Kenyan, are you really that naïve to think that Kenya was picked as opposed to Nigeria, Somalia, South Africa, etc…”

    Regardless of how much proof to the contrary…… It had nothing to do with other African countries

    I find it interesting that Gerald Ford was born of another name and there was never a question on his birthplace…..

    I guess what is fair now is that if your parents or grandparents weren’t born in the US, all bets are off regardless of how much proof you provide.

  64. I have a suggestion, xx….rather than pepper me with your questions about racism, try taking a course on race and culture at your local community college.

  65. “It’s already done in terms of “legal” in Arizona. A dark skinned person can be ID’d because of their heritage.”

    Not true, a person questioned about status and ID’d based on skin color is illegal both in state and federal statue.

    The Kenyan thingy was kinda light-hearted, didn’t go over well, sorry. ( I got no issues about the Presidents birthplace)

    Both parents were born stateside, grandparents were not, and yes, I have many documents as required to obtain whatever services and benefits I apply for.

    I have taken a course on race and culture, I found myself subconsciously hating “whitey”. Literally It was a course on why we should hate the white man. God he gets blamed for everything including global warming, anyway…

    On a positive note, once I stopped blaming the white man for me driving a Geo Metro things began to happen, I began to see the world in all the vibrant colors that God has provided us, the birds starting singing to me again, I put down the Ron Rico, abundance started coming my way… now I drive a Hummer H2.

    I also am helping others, my focus in on the white man and relieving him of his undeserved guilt. I am here to help if any of you need me.

    Vaya con Dios mi hermano…

  66. “xx98411 says:
    August 18, 2011 at 10:40 am
    “It’s already done in terms of “legal” in Arizona. A dark skinned person can be ID’d because of their heritage.”

    Not true, a person questioned about status and ID’d based on skin color is illegal both in state and federal statue.”

    So…tell me the grounds for the AZ laws that were recently passed about ID…

  67. “…….rather than pepper me with your questions…”

    Is it kettle = black… or shoe = other foot?

  68. “have taken a course on race and culture, I found myself subconsciously hating “whitey”. Literally It was a course on why we should hate the white man.”

    Sorry…not buying this. I can see you being racist towards caucasians, but I’d prefer to see more proof of the course study.

  69. “So…tell me the grounds for the AZ laws that were recently passed about ID… ”

    is this a question? am I being peppered?

    The answer alex is Why can the federal government do their job and secure the borders of this great nation?

  70. “God he gets blamed for everything including global warming, anyway…”

    The entire human race is blamed…but don’t let facts get in the way.

  71. “For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…”

    So…I’ll expect to see a whole bunch of caucasian tourists pulled off their tour bus and ID’d. Reasonable suspicion? They could be KKK terrorists…..

  72. “The answer alex is Why can the federal government do their job and secure the borders of this great nation?”

    Because corporate interests pay for illegals to enter the country to provide a cheap labor pool. We need more regulation, obviously, but that doesn’t happen with a Republican House.

  73. “…I can see you being racist towards caucasians…”

    How can you say that Karnos, that hurts my feelings, some of my best friends are white. They even come to my house for dinner… even in the daylight for all to see. I even contribute to causes that help the white man.

    When me and my liberal friends go to the homeless shelter, while they focus on the people of color, I look out for the white man. I don’t want them to feel left out of society and know that we are all God’s children.

    Dude, I am so not racist that I was cool with one of then even wanting to marry my sister, God bless them. :)

  74. “I found myself subconsciously hating “whitey”.

    Your quote.

  75. yeah karnos it was the class that did it to me, now I’m better…

    I love people for who they are man… the shade God made them…

    I feel a better connection between me and you because of this back and forth…

    We should go feed people at the homeless shelter… you focus on the people of color and I on the white man. Kinda like an ebony and ivory thingy… it would be cool man.

  76. nice dialogue xx….too bad it has nothing to do with frosty’s original post.

  77. bb, dude, you try having what passes for a conversation with karnos and then preach to me how you think you last comments are in context with the original post…

    that boy has got a bad case of ADD… no matter how much you try to stay on course with the subject, the converstion becomes like trying to pin jello on the wall….

    by the way, that article was not about reverse racism to me, it was about a mother trying despertly to protect her sweet little boy who beat the crap out of a man. She’s got issues dude and claims of reverse racism are just that big mouth claims… not even close.

  78. xx – a one sentence post is preaching?

    I do apologize…..this what is racist dialog also exists on another thread, initiated by frosty’s post using two Hispanic surnames as an example of voter fraud – didn’t realize that this racism banter was initiated by your post about a black gunman.

  79. bb – we disagree and I could ask you the same “what about frosty’s comment and the use of Hispanic surnames makes his post racist.?”

    I am all ears because I wasn’t offended. I only add that I am Hispanic because one would think I would be… or not.

    I hear alot of name calling, accusations, but not a whole lot of logic why frosty’s comment is racist… go for it if you like…

    ps – I wasn’t the one with the black gunman, that was the k-dude with his typical poop slinging to stir up the nest… I got no problem owning a comment, all I ask is that you (and others) be sure it was me and my brand of poop.

  80. “Your Hispanic heritage doesn’t equate you as an expert in racism.”

    Your horrid grammar notwithstanding, Kardnos, please tell me what “equates you as an expert in racism” ??

    For that matter, what equates you as an expert in all the various domains where you claim expertise?
    Based on your posts, one would think you have degrees in economics, history, political science, sociology, anthropology….and the list goes on.

  81. xx – are you maintaining that your sensibilities are the sole measure of racism?

    I never wrote that I considered frosty’s post as racist but you seem to really want to push your point so:

    A reasonable person could have considered frosty’s remark to be bigoted if he had used to obviously Irish names, or Jewish, or Norwegian, or any other identifiable minority ethnic group as it singles out one group as being involved in fraud.

    If he were referring to an actual event that happened to be perpetuated by two Hispanic (or Irish, or Jewish, or Norwegian, etc.) men that would be different. But, as a hypothetical, to make the decision to single out one particular sub-group implies intent to communicate what appears to be his belief that members of this particular sub-group have a tendency to commit fraud.

    And that is why I feel that it is reasonable for someone to express concern about the racial overtones of the the statement.

    But again……I didn’t claim that his comment was racist. Perhaps YOU need to be careful in attribution too.

  82. beerBoy….the “black man with a gun” is my standing example of how the Second Amendment isn’t applied equally to all. Gun toters will justify a caucasian open carrying a pistol, but put that pistol in the hands of a black man in public – especially one wearing athletic gear – and you have an entirely different mindset on the situation.

    sozo…maybe you could demonstrate a less “horrid” grammar for my sentence. Meanwhile the point is clear – heritage is meaningless when ignorance stands in the way of understanding the simplicity of racism.

  83. sozo….if I may embellish…..

    One doesn’t need a special degree to realize when someone issues a racial slur.

    The game you play with racism is like watching you talking about religious scripture.

  84. Oh…and sozo….

    If a person was born of hispanic heritage and taught to hate others…..

    As you can see, birth has nothing to do with racism. Racism is a learned trait.

  85. Bb – if we are actually going to get into details about who said what and when, then we both need to be accurate about, just that – who said what and when.

    “…sole measure of racism?” hell no I don’t… just asking some questions and pressuring the jello slinger to answer something… anything… my methods are a combination of valid to annoying. Yep, as I said I know when I am being an a-hole. And since I make no claim to any sensibilities, I am asking because I am wondering why “you guys” are getting all huffing about an edgy post.

    “…push my point.” – dude, you don’t have to respond. I just asked a question and thought a low probability of response.

    Ok, so you didn’t say frosty’s post was racist… I don’t think I ever said you thought… well anything. I just asked the question since you weighed in ( I get tired of the fiscal vs Obama vs Bush and now Perry stuff)

    “too bad it has nothing to do with frosty’s original post.”

    Probably correct as the original conversation jumped a thread and ended up here (God only knows how, I know, I know, I could have ignored it). My dialogue was in response to Karnos. And as I said those conversations end up in some very interesting places if you are not watching the road.

    “…reasonable person…” – I asked what names, since Jamal might be out, as is Steinberg, oh yeah we know definitely Juan is out, are acceptable in pleasant conversation? My point, a few but how do you have a conversation about the issue without allowing oneself to get derailed by the implication of what one says. Why he played the race card instead of ignoring the post, is really one of many questions I have.

    In the thread – “Obama… succeeded…”, the k-person asked that race stuff again and I think I grew up a little and offer some thought on what may be the perception… none of them race based. We’ll see where it goes and what his logic is. It is on subject bb since the letter writer did actually make the statement. You wanna a piece of that action, go for it, it will be fun. ;)

    Again, I never said that I thought you claimed the comment was racist. I know that these post tend to get tedious and run together from time to time. And considering that you thought I initiated the African American followed by the Black man thingy, I can see where your original assumption was wrong…. Both with the black man thingy and now me claiming thingy. Sorry ;)

    ”didn’t realize that this racism banter was initiated by your post about a black gunman.”

    Making trouble for both of us that karnos rascal.

  86. ”Gun toters will justify a caucasian open carrying a pistol, but put that pistol in the hands of a black man in public – especially one wearing athletic gear – and you have an entirely different mindset on the situation.

    Karnos – do you read what you write for comprehension…

    As long as a person open carries in a holster karnos the issue is mute, regardless of whether the person is white, black, yellow, brown or red…

    When you put that gun in a person hand regardless whether they are white, black, yellow, brown or red, they can be perceived as a valid threat and are breaking multiple RCW’s in this fine state.

    Second – us gun toters know that athletic gear (sweat pants) is a fashion no-no for open carry. I have yet to find a holster that goes with my Nike elastic waist athletic gear and ever since the Burris thingy I am a little afraid for the jewels if you know what I mean ;)

  87. “The game you play with racism is like watching you talking about religious scripture.”

    racism??? sozo???? ahhh, man did I miss a goodie??? Must have been a good one to have set the k-dude off?

    God bless TNT discussion boards!

  88. Glad to help you out Kardnos.

    You wrote “Your Hispanic heritage doesn’t equate you as an expert in racism.”

    Equate is just the wrong verb; it doesn’t work in this way. Just keep it simple and say “your Hispanic heritage doesn’t make you an exeprt in racism.”

    That out of the way, I would suggest that while his heritage may not make him an expert, it does give him a unique perspective that should be taken into consideration in a discussion about racist conduct.

    You say that one doesn’t need a special degree to recognize a racial slur?

    I would suggest that just as some people back in the 50’s saw commies behind every bush, there is a similar phenomenon afoot with regard to racism today.You, and many others, are so hypersenstive in this area that I think your receptors are faulty. That is not a statement of fact; it is my opinion.

  89. ‘your Hispanic heritage doesn’t make you an exeprt in racism.”

    Now that is a true statement.

    For the record I have not claimed expertise in racism and agree that my perspective is different that those that are (insert race / color) here… but not more valid, or any less for that matter, than any of you that may have felt the sting of actual racism.

  90. back to the original instigator…..

    frosty has posted on more than one occasion that his purpose on these boards is to annoy liberals.

    Kardnos has demonstrated a strong response to posts that he feels are racially insensitive.

    What frosty’s real life feelings are about race are I have no way of knowing but it is a safe conclusion that he intentionally posted a sentence that was constructed in such a way as to be interpreted as being racially insensitive with the thought that it would “annoy liberals”.

    And KARNOS, XX, sozo and me have all taken the bait.

  91. Speak for yourself…

    I am responding to those that actually responded to Frosty and accuse him of short of racist behavior.

    What kills me now is in one breath you state… “What frosty’s real life feelings are about race are I have no way of knowing…”

    But yet “…it is a safe conclusion that he intentionally posted a sentence that was constructed in such a way as to be interpreted as being racially insensitive with the thought that it would “annoy liberals”.

    Come on dude, I believe you are correct in the first part of your sentence – no way of knowing… but the second.

    Again you can go right ahead and conclude all you want but then again instead of right out of the gate accusing Frosty of being one hair short of a racist, why don’t we just ask him what he meant by the statement.

    Or better yet, ignore the statement as I have yet to hear an approve list of sample names for the white guys to use so that they won’t be accuse of racism.

  92. As usual bBoy is assuming all sorts of stuff he shouldn’t but oh well. Additionally, I don’t think we need you, bB, to facilitate the exchange, but hey thanks for playing teacher.

    I’m laughing because somehow I missed this line from Kardnos which is actually hysterically funny if you think about it.

    “I have a suggestion, ‘Kardnos says to xx “….rather than pepper me with your questions about racism, try taking a course on race and culture at your local community college.”

    How on earth do you expect anyone to take you seriously, really?

  93. xx

    Since this is a virtual site I have no way of knowing if frosty is an older white man (as I assume) or a 14 year old Vietnamese girl. I also have no way of knowing if the autobiographical material they provide accurately represents the person at the keyboard – so, although I tend to accept your claim that you are of Hispanic descent, I have no idea if it is actually true.

    However, – I can base a persona’s actions on this site by their previous actions on this site – especially statements of one’s “mission” on this site.

  94. You write “we just ask him what he meant by the statement” yet you reject my conclusions based upon statements that frosty has posted in the past that clarify what his intent on this site is.

  95. I don’t reject you conclusion, I simply see it differently.

    By your premise and I tend to agree with the following:

    Frosty said he wants to annoy liberals… Frosty post a comment that annoys liberals… goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooal!

    What I see karnos and you do is to paint your own picture of what you think frosty has said… as you specifically stated you “…have no way of knowing…”

    Well if you have no way of knowing what he thinks then what make you believe his post is intented to skirt the racist edge? I submit it is your perception as oppose to a reality that none of use can answer.

    Again, what I do see is that you are correct, his intent, be a pain in liberal butt and it appears that he has suceeded. You keep looking for your bias and you will always find evidence to support it and the, at times, twisted logic to explain it.

    frosty a racist…. heck if I know.

    frosty a pain in liberal butt… heck yeah!

  96. frosty a pain in liberal butt… heck yeah!

    That’s pretty much what I wrote…..

  97. we just took different paths to get there…

    it appears yours was a more scenic route…

  98. it appears yours was a more scenic route…

    and yet you got there after me……

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