Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

NORWAY: Killer isn’t representative of Christian conservatives

Letter by Sharon D. Moffitt, University Place on July 25, 2011 at 1:41 pm with 39 Comments »
July 25, 2011 1:43 pm

I feel certain that I represent many Christian readers who are horrified by what took place in Norway last week. It is beyond the pale in every way; it is impossible even to imagine the terror experienced by the young people on that island.

As the story unfolds, I’m sure we will discover that the man behind this massacre was either terribly ill or evil. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference.

Of course I am distressed to see him labeled as a “Christian conservative,” because I know it will be like gasoline thrown on a fire for some readers – rooted in a presumption that all Christians or all conservatives are somehow represented by this shooter.

Let me be among the first to assure folks that he in no way represents the theology of Christians in general, and clearly his political bent was an extreme perversion of conservativism.

May God have mercy on the families now suffering the agony of grief, as well as on the people of Norway who have suffered these egregious, unspeakable acts that have left a stain on their land. And may God’s will be done with regard to the man who committed this crime.

Leave a comment Comments → 39
  1. Uh…Sharon…..Islamic terrorists are Conservatives also…..

  2. From the manifesto of Anders Behring Breivik

    “As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science, and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic.”

    The conversation will soon go off the rails but it appears that he did not attack because of any religious beliefs he may have had.

  3. We use labels as a means to better clarify where folks are on the political spectrum. As has been proven many times on this blog, however, definitions for liberals, progressives and conservatives depend on who is using the term, his or her frame of reference, biases, prejudices, etc.

    Some of the same people who beseech us to NOT judge all Muslims by the conduct of extremists will be all too ready to leap on the press’ use of Christian conservative to describe this guy.

    It would appear he was an ego-maniac and off the charts, period.

  4. My apologies for splitting the infinitive.

  5. Roncella says:

    sozo, I agree with your post completely.

    I would only add that when the American muslim terrorist, in Ft. Hood, killed his fellow soldiers and yelled his muslim saying as he killed violently, we were all told that no one should jump to conclusions about motives that caused this American Muslim to kill.

    Everyone was advised not to cause more violence by branding this American Muslim a terrorist.
    Everyone needs to wait especally the “main stream media”, for a complete investagation about the Why and How this man in Norway was able to kill so many folks under the radar from so many people.

    Only then will we all find out his true motives and desires to kill so many people.

  6. “sozo says:
    July 25, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    We use labels as a means to better clarify where folks are on the political spectrum.”

    This is why we need to not lose sight that Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists are Conservatives.

  7. “The man who admitted to killing 76 people in Norway told a court that he wanted to save Western Europe from a Muslim takeover, the judge said.”

    “xx98411 says:
    July 25, 2011 at 2:51 pm
    The conversation will soon go off the rails but it appears that he did not attack because of any religious beliefs he may have had.”

    It appears that he attacked because of religious beliefs he opposed.

  8. It appears that he attacked because of religious beliefs he opposed.

    Still digesting his Manifesto but it appears that he is not opposed to the religon of Isalm, he was FOR his Nordic heritage.

    “I am very proud of my Viking heritage…”

  9. whoops I may stand corrected??? or are we in extremist la-la land to justify this:

    “We both share one common goal. They want control over their own countries in the Middle East and we want control of our own countries in Western Europe,”

    “An Islamic Caliphate is a useful enemy to all Europeans as it will ensure European unity under Christian cultural conservative leadership.”

    Fine line here but it appears he had less of a problem with Islam and more of a problem with the spread of Islam in Norway.

    The enemy of my enemy… hmmm

  10. From the Telegraph UK:

    “The blond-haired 32-year-old appears to have set up accounts on the social networking sites Facebook and Twitter just a few days ago.

    Although police have not officially named Breivik as the suspect, Norwegian media identified him as the gunman. Police say the suspect is talking to police and was keen to “explain himself”.

    Eyewitness reports from the island of Utoya, where the shootings took place, have also described a tall, blond haired, blue-eyed Norwegian man dressed as a police officer.

    On the Facebook page attributed to him, Mr Breivik describes himself as a Christian and a conservative. It listed his interests as hunting, body building and freemasonry. His profile also listed him as single. The page has since been taken down.

    Police chief Svinung Sponheim said that internet posting by Breivik suggested he has “some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views”.

  11. triple post much???

  12. The point is – extremists, of any sect, are whack-jobs that don’t represent the mainstream.

    AND – it gives lie to aislander’s conviction that the Left is the source of all evil.

  13. No, the left pretty much is the source of all evil. And they defend all evil if it fits their agenda.

  14. So….a Conservative North Korean is equivalent in political and religious belief structure as a Conservative surfer of Tonga?……..

    (they both breathe air, therefore…)

    context and definition-fail..again.
    Multi-poster would not pass 11th grade debate club.

    This act of Anders is abhorrent and not in any way in character with the Word of God (Bible, for those who would ignorantly capitalize on confusion…)

  15. “xx98411 says:
    July 25, 2011 at 5:30 pm
    triple post much???

    One post per forum……just like your denial…..
    Do you think everyone is stupid and doesn’t see your manifesto post on each forum?

  16. “larsman says:
    July 25, 2011 at 6:32 pm
    So….a Conservative North Korean is equivalent in political and religious belief structure as a Conservative surfer of Tonga?……..”

    Sure…..EQUIVILANT being the operative word, as opposed to SAME.

    A Conservative North Korean worships his leader as a diety and believes that the diety can do no wrong.

    Now I’m not sure that there is a Conservative surfer in Tonga and I’ll await your proof of such, but my description is not a whole lot different than the religious posturing that we hear from….oh…how about Michele Bachmann?

    She worships her diety as a leader and claims the diety can do no wrong.

  17. actually karnos I was trying to keep up with you… then I slapped myself… why?

    got anything or are we getting personal so soon?

  18. xx……I’m responding to your quote of the manifesto. Look at the time stamps and quit acting ignorant.

  19. “xx98411 says:
    July 25, 2011 at 2:51 pm
    From the manifesto of Anders Behring Breivik

    find one post of mine about the Facebook page that was before 2:51 pm

  20. That would be “equivalent” and “deity” Kardnos. Slow down, you’re going to hurt yourself in your eagerness to demonstrate your animosity.

    I certainly do not see the Left as the source of all evil, though I think they are misguided in their hopes for the future of the U.S.–and I do find it ironic that folks ON the left are so quick to demonstrate tolerance and understanding for people who no doubt find their liberal views regarding sex, women, and marriage abhorrent.

    Evil surfaces in every arena because the human condition is a broken one. Fanatacism of any sort is dangerous.

  21. Actually Breivik condemns Protestant Christianity and the current Catholic Church and favors a return to the Crusader Era Church.

  22. “sozo says:
    July 25, 2011 at 7:12 pm
    That would be “equivalent” and “deity” Kardnos. Slow down, you’re going to hurt yourself in your eagerness to demonstrate your animosity.

    I certainly do not see the Left as the source of all evil, though I think they are misguided in their hopes for the future of the U.S.–and I do find it ironic that folks ON the left are so quick to demonstrate tolerance and understanding for people who no doubt find their liberal views regarding sex, women, and marriage abhorrent.

    Evil surfaces in every arena because the human condition is a broken one. Fanatacism of any sort is dangerous.”

    That is “fanaticism” , sozo. Eager to show your apologist issues? The only thing you’re going to hurt is your own pride.

  23. “ON the left are so quick to demonstrate tolerance and understanding for people who no doubt find their liberal views regarding sex, women, and marriage abhorrent.”

    What is the “liberal view” on women? That they are equal? TERRIBLE!!!

    Liberal view on sex? That it is not just lesbian bondage for entertainment?

    Liberal view on marriage? Not exclusively for the religious?

  24. LarryFine says:

    “The enemy of my enemy… hmmm”

    Indeed!

  25. If far-right Christian Conservatives in this nation were really not more in tune with the extremism of the Norway killer than our own Constitutional protections of religion, we would have heard of their resounding disgust of what Herman Cain professes.

    Instead, he keeps winning straw polls, keeps rising in the polls and not one word from so-called Christians Conservatives about their outrage at what he professes.

    He said, in defense of his statement that communities should be able to ban mosques:

    “Islam combines church and state. They’re using the church part of our First Amendment to infuse their morals in that community, and the people of that community do not like it. They disagree with it.”

    Hmm, sounds like a lot of Christian churches could be banned, too, under Cain’s philosophy, since they are trying to do the same thing.

  26. According to this European, in Europe the religious labels are used mostly to signify overall cultural association (of which religion is only a component) rather than explicit religious beliefs (the religious fervor common in US is almost unknown and incomprehensible to Europeans, with exceptions – Poland, etc.). Therefore he claims to be a Christian, and not very religious at the same time. Religious conflict is not his problem; it’s general xenophobia.

    In previous comments – a better word for what’s referred to as “conservative”, is “authoritarian”. I keep being amazed how much in common the US republicans have with the Eastern European communists (starting with the party color).

  27. I was wrong when I said “not one word” against Herman Cain from right-wing Christian Conservatives. The president of one of the committees of the national Southern Baptist Convention did chide him for his statements.

    Southern Baptists are one of the few evangelical denominations that proudly (and correctly) say that there is “separation of church and state” in the Constitution.

    Herman Cain is an associate pastor at Antioch Baptist Church, which is not affiliated with the SBC. It is affiliated with Missionary Baptist Convention and the National Baptist Convention of America. These organizations were formed, according to their website, in order to provide missonaries to Africa to convert Africans to Christianity and bring Christian morals to that continent. Their main purpose was to “bring the teachings of Jesus Christ to the Mother Soil of Africa”

  28. LarryFine says:

    … that wasn’t the only time.

  29. LarryFine says:

    Which strawman poll are you refering to ?

  30. I find it interesting that those who are so ready to defend and support a religion that makes no secret of its theocratic objectives…Islam…can be so hateful and disdainful towards Christians. Quite the paradox.

    It is one thing to hold fast to biblical principles and apply said principles to voting decisions while maintaining a belief in the separation of church and state (such as the So. Baptists do) and quite another to want to replace secular government with a theocracy. If you can’t see the distinction, you are choosing to wear blinders.

    Do those in the liberal/progressive cohort seriously choose to align themselves with those who would replace freedom with Islamic law?

  31. Roncella says:

    The far leftests who defend the Muslims strong beliefs in Sharia Law would have none of the freedoms they enjoy now if Sharia Law became the Law of the land, None……

  32. sozo, even in many Muslim-dominated countries, Sharia law is only a private recognition and not public law. Only extreme Muslims want to force others to conform to Sharia, just like only extreme Christians want our whole country to conform to Christian beliefs, like imposing bans on gay marriage based on Biblical passages.

    I have not heard of any far-leftists, Roncella, defending the imposition of Sharia Law, except from the claims of a few crazies like Glen Beck and Herman Cain who didn’t provide any factual support. Please name some of the lefties who agree Sharia Law can be imposed on our government for me so I can see for myself what they said.

  33. I feel certain that I represent many Muslim readers who are horrified by what took place in New York on 9/11. It is beyond the pale in every way; it is impossible even to imagine the terror experienced by the people in those buildings.

    As the story unfolds, I’m sure we will discover that the man behind this massacre was either terribly ill or evil. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference.

    Of course I am distressed to see him labeled as a “Muslim,” because I know it will be like gasoline thrown on a fire for some readers – rooted in a presumption that all Muslims or all conservatives are somehow represented by him.

    Let me be among the first to assure folks that he in no way represents the theology of Muslims in general, and clearly his political bent was an extreme perversion of conservativism.

    May Allah have mercy on the families now suffering the agony of grief, as well as on the people of New York who have suffered these egregious, unspeakable acts that have left a stain on their land. And may Allah’s will be done with regard to the man who committed this crime.

    Look familiar?

  34. A clever response to be sure, and of course the same thing applies to all. Still it doesn’t explain the dancing in the streets on 9/12 in many middle eastern cities. I fear there are a lot more Muslims who either secretly or publicly support al qaeada than there are Christians who would support the actions of Breivik.

  35. Roncella says:

    tuddo, Its the manner in which you defend Sharia law being taught to Millions of Muslims all over the World and the U.S. that amazes me.

    Have you read what Sharia Law is about ? You being a very Liberal thinking person, I can assure you that you would be very disappointed in the laws of Sharia.

    Its true not every mosque follows Sharia Law, however many many do. Its like a cancer to the Muslim People as it grows and get more and more powerful in so many mosques and the leaders who control the mosques.

  36. Roncella, as I posted on another thread, your comments are much like the anti-catholic, “The catholics want to instill Church law and the Pope’s dominion over the US” sentiment from about 1850-1960 in the US. Hundreds of people were massacred, thousands of Catholics were burned out and scores of churches were destroyed by people saying catholics were out to instill their law over the Constitution.

    Prove it, infiltrate their mosques (I know for a fact we have done so) and give them due process if they are plotting the takeover of the USA.

    We live in a country ruled by the Constitution and governed by the rule of law, not by the fears of mobs. So, I have every confidence we will prevail over any threat of Sharia Law, just like we prevailed over the threat of the Pope taking over the USA, by respecting the Constitution and calling out people who would not abide by it, like Cain.

  37. Roncella says:

    tuddo, You can ignore whats happening in many mosques throughout the U.S. all you want to. Sharia Law is what many of the emoms teach and rule their mosques with an iron fist with.

    I don’t believe that Sharia law would ever become the law of the land for Americans, however as more and more Muslims come to live in America this horrible form of religion and control by the emoms in their mosques is not healthy for the New Muslims coming to America or other Americans.

    Whats made America most unique is the way folks have come to America from all over the World to become American.

    My Grandfather and many family members who came to America from another country became Americans in both language and customs. They would visit their home land on occasion but would never want to return to live there.

    They never invisioned re-making America into their home land.

  38. I think you mean “imam” Roncella.

  39. Roncella says:

    Thank you, sozo. I did.

*
We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0