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DEBT: Republicans take lead in resolving crisis

Letter by Paul F. Adan, Tacoma on July 13, 2011 at 9:45 am with 139 Comments »
July 13, 2011 2:28 pm

Seven months ago, Americans voted overwhelming for fiscal responsibility by giving Republicans a majority in the House of Representatives. Here’s what we’ve seen in the time period since the election: the creation of the first federal budget in more than 800 days and two showdowns over raising America’s debt ceiling.

In typical fashion, the left-leaning media have ignored the obvious and painted the current showdown as the big, bad Republicans wanting to cut off Grandma’s Social Security benefits. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is that the Republicans are the ones who’ve taken the lead in resolving our debt crises.

President Obama, meanwhile, has demonstrated once again that he’s a “leader” who “leads” from behind. Only after the heaving lifting has already been done does he show up and try to claim credit. In the process, he sarcastically and condescendingly berates his political opponents and pretends that he’s the adult by saying things like “it’s time for us (meaning Congress) to eat our peas and carrots.”

Unless America gets a handle on the debt problem now, while we’re able to do so somewhat painlessly, we’ll soon face a scenario where we’ll have no choice but to make very severe and painful cuts.

 

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Leave a comment Comments → 139
  1. So, Paul…..

    Is it the cutting of NPR or Planned Parenthood that is going to save our country from financial ruin?

    Oh…I know…..not allowing gay marriage will make everything better.

  2. “Is it the cutting of NPR or Planned Parenthood that is going to save our country from financial ruin?”

    It is a good start… that cowboy singing thingy that olde Harry was talking about should be on the chopping block also…

  3. I know that this letter writer is living in a world of make believe. The Republicans in Congress voted overwhelmingly in their current budget bill to add $8 trillion dollars to the national debt to fund the kind of things they want funded, the wars, the subsidies to big corporations, welfare for the oil companies, etc. They then come to the negotiating table refusing to make any compromise on the elimination of the Bush tax cuts.

    The wealthiest 400 Americans have as much wealth as 150 million Americans. And they pay a lower effective tax rate than the chauffeurs who drive them to work or the teachers who instruct their kids or the cops who patrol their streets. The Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan account for nearly half of the deficits projected for the next 10 years,

    The to 10% of the US in wealth and the big corporations have recovered nicely from the Great Recession with the biggest profits in scores of years, anjd the biggest profits as percent of costs ever in our history. Corporations are not generating jobs in the US. They are sitting on trillions in cash and investing in infrastructure projects developed by foreign governments. Businesses aren’t short of cash; they are short of customers. Cutting government spending and laying off contractors and federal employees will cost far more jobs than giving the money to the wealthy or corporations will create.

  4. Yeah….let’s start saving money by denying health care benefits and eliminating non-corporate radio.

    That’ll save us a bundle.

    Maybe start with 50% of the Defense budget for some real money…

  5. LarryFine says:

    Hey, Barry is more than willing to sideline his promise of ‘hope and change” and keep kicking the can… too bad.

    Is cutting funding for NPR and PP going to cause them to go bankrupt ? Nope.

  6. aislander says:

    I remember my grandparents saying that liberal entitlement programs would lead to our current situation, and here we are: conservatives have been right all along…

  7. Liberal entitlement programs? Name one.

  8. ::::humming Jeopardy theme::::::::

  9. menopaws says:

    SEVEN TIMES—they raised the debt ceiling under Bush—so now, they are deeply committed to reducing the deficit……..No personal admissions of mistakes on their watch—like two UNFUNDED wars, with tax cuts……….We all want the deficit down, but screwing around with our bond rating by defaulting isn’t the way to do it………You don’t default on your debts and expect the world to treat you like a leader……….Idiots! The inmates are in charge of the asylum and all I can do is pray that someone gets them under control……….

  10. menopaws – relax. Just think how easy the 2012 election will be. Even McConnell is squirming now…..of course he is trying to dump this into Obama’s lap, but even his own party is against him.

    The circus is in town. Enjoy the clowns.

  11. SadujTogracse says:

    Excellent letter! Yes the Republicans are trying to make Government more fiscally responsible. Part of that includes (gasp) dealing with entitlements. You can’t just say “move along there’s nothing to see here” as has been the Democrat’s “solution” for many years now.

    You see that’s what happens when you trust Government by giving them your hard earned money and have them “save” it for you. I know one thing, I can save my money better than the US Government can.

  12. I disagree with you Paul. The Republicans have their heads up their fannies.

    I see this as a huge failure on their part to achieve a negotiated agreement to fix health care and social security once and for all.

    If they don’t change direction, I see them back in the minority come 2012. I also think this will torpedo the Republicans chance at winning the governorship in Washington state.

  13. The republicans are trying to make government more fiscally responsible by cutting programs that make up less than 1% of the budget. While doing this and focusing on gay marriage, gays in the military, sharia law, and other non-financial issues, they will magically pull a rabbit from their collective hats and in 75 years Paul Ryan will come out of his hole, see his shadow and the deficit will be solved.

  14. The Rcons turned down $3 trillion in direct spending cuts because they refuse to close tax loopholes – such as the ones that allowed Ruper$10.4 billion in profits and get a $4 billion tax refund.

  15. Misunderestimated says:

    The Republicans are making a mistake by trying to stick to their “No Tax Increases” pledge when even their own Economists call for making the Bush Era Tax Cuts permanent for those making under $250K per year, and ending the cuts for those making $250K and over as necessary combined with spending cuts to get us out of this mess.
    Spending cuts will also be necessary, but we need to make sure we are cutting Defense spending and Corporate Welfare before we even consider cutting programs that hurt the most vulnerable among us.

  16. xring – Your post is factually incorrect and not even close.

    Reuters has since withdrawn the original post, admitting that the writer had it wrong.

  17. GHTaxPayer says:

    President Obama refuses to outline what he would cut in order to balance the budget and stop the economic free fall that he, Bush, Pelosi and Reid have put us in. Obama’s original 2011 budget plan was so catastrophic that all Dems and Republicans voted against it, 97 – 0.

    The feds take in $2.6 Trillion in revenue. Last year Obama spent 3.8 Trillion.
    $1.2 Trillion deficit.

    As of today Obama has added another 1.03 Trillion to the deficit. He is on pace to have a $1.8 Trillion deficit for 2011.

    The Dems and Obama have never passed a budget. Never. They want to keep spending without disclosing where the money is going.

    Until the alleged leader of our country comes up with a plan to cut spending and reform entitlements, the GOP needs to hold firm and refuse to raise the debt ceiling.

  18. GHTaxPayer says:

    And the GOP has been open to a flat corporate tax with NO loopholes for any corporation. Obama and the Dems have twice refused to pass this because they want GE and the other “green” companies to pay zero taxes.

  19. History always seems to be forgotten. Virtually throughout the 1940s the democrats held a super majority, from 1955 to 1981 the democrats had a super majority, from 1981 to 1987 the republicans had a majority in the senate, from 1987 to 1995 the democrats again had a majority in both chambers. Then the republicans had a majority in both houses from 1995 to 2001, which i might add was the 3rd to the 8th year of the clinton era….also known as economic bliss era. Anyways from 2007 to 2011 the democrats had a super majority with the almighty obama at the helm and still got nothing done, They didnt do anything about taxes,the unemployment rate,oil prices,tax loopholes….nothing. As a matter of fact, it would stand to reason that since the democrats have held the majority for the majority of U.S. history, or at least the last 50 years that have counted. Then logic would dictate that they are responsible for the majority of the problems this country is going through.

  20. Obama has shown true leadership while the little kiddies of the Republican Party argue in their sandbox. Obama offered an almost unheard of compromise that left Democragts stunned about how far reaching he was willing to cut Medicare Social Security and deep cuts in other federal programs. What did the Republican leaderswhip doa fter theya greed to it in basic ? They heard from the fringe right that said, We will take this country to bankruptcy and ruin before we will make any compromise with Obama.”

    Republicans can’t even pass any of their own bills in the House where they have a huge majority because of their ineptitude and inability to get along with each other.

  21. Can someone cite what meaningful legislation the Republican House has passed since January 1, 2011?

  22. “GHTaxPayer says:
    July 13, 2011 at 7:05 pm
    And the GOP has been open to a flat corporate tax with NO loopholes for any corporation. Obama and the Dems have twice refused to pass this because they want GE and the other “green” companies to pay zero taxes.”

    Please cite the bill number and name that the Democrats, with their minority, have refused to pass

  23. aislander says:

    Meaningful legislation? How about a budget? The last one passed by the Democrat Senate was over 800 days ago, and Obama’s budget proposal was rejected unanimously…

  24. GHTaxPayer says:

    The House passed a budget 2 months ago. The Senate refuses to vote on it.

    All the GOP needs to do now is force Obama to come up with the spending cuts necessary to balance the budget. They should stop negotiating and make Obama earn his keep.

    The feds take in $2.6 Trillion this year and about the same next year. Obama’s last budget proposal (March 2011) had spending at $4.2 Trillion and was defeated 97 – 0.

    When will Obama and the Dems come up with a balanced budget ???

    What is wrong with passing a balanced budget amendment ????

  25. GHTaxPayer says:

    Kardnos – in 2008, 2009, and 2010 the Senate led by Harry Reid blocked multiple flat corpoarte tax bills from coming to the floor. These bills were sponsored by Ron Paul, Thune, Sessions, et al.

  26. 97 voted NO and that is because they couldn’t vote… HELL NO

    not even the Jim Jones Kool-aid drinking left of left of left Dems could vote yes…

    ouch…

  27. GHTaxPayer says:

    Obama is deliberately trying to bankrupt our country and ruin the value of our dollar. There is no other explanation for the massive runup in debt and unwillingness to balance the budget.

    2012 just can’t come soon enough.

  28. bobcat1a says:

    Just a little humorous aside: Most of the Tea Party members of Congress have taken a vow to not vote to increase the debt limit, yet every single one of them voted for the Paul Ryan budget, which would require the debt ceiling to be raised dramatically. Either the right hand doesn’t know what the other right hand is doing or else believes that math is a religious system where faith matters more than reason.

  29. Adan,
    Your whole letter is nothing but foxbat talking points lacking even a shred of truth of fact.

    S_T,
    The major part of the Rpots plan is ‘NO NEW TAXES for the people who are sending US jobs overseas, besides the poor and wealth don’t need their money”

    Xx989,
    Try reading my posts again and you will find no reference a Reuters or anyone else.

    GHT,
    Go do some research and stop wasting space on lies and other falsehoods.

    Mathius,
    Rpots controlled the House from 2001 through 2007.

    Dems controlled the Senate (by one vote) from 2001 through 2002,

    Rpots controlled the Senate from 2003 through 2006..

    Dems controlled the Senate (by one vote) from 2007 through 2009, and from
    2010 through 2010 by 5 votes.

    The Dems currently control the Senate 51 to 47, and 2 Independents that caucus with the Dems.

  30. “Xx989,
    Try reading my posts again and you will find no reference a Reuters or anyone else”

    Dude the bogus numbers you cited were posted in a bunked Reuters story that was recinded due to writers inability to grasp basic math.

    Whereever you got your numbers from… they were wrong… that was and still the point.

  31. GHT……and the bill numbers and names were??????

    You see, I question this because the Ridiculous Right has a penchant for making up bills that don’t exist and changing the names to suit their political slant.

  32. bobcat – the TEA Party Republicans have the Grand Old Party puckering in the southern portion. McConnell knows that they are in a corner and can’t fight their way out.

    Obama is playing this as smooth as he did the long form of the birth certificate.

  33. When you google – Senate Democrats block flat corporate tax bills – none of GHT’s allegations show up.

    Gosh, I wonder why?

  34. Roncella says:

    Paul, Your letter has got the usual mental giants all worked up. You have to understand that whenever mistakes by Obama or liberal dems. are discussed they go into a rage and become angry and disjointed.

    Paul, Why can’t you just follow the lead of lame stream media and just go on worshipping everything President Obama says and does. In their eyes Obama walks on water.

    If your beliefs were liberal/dem. you would find it very easy to agree with the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Biden, Boxer, Frank, Schoomer, Weiner Frankin, etc. etc.

  35. The House panel voted to cut both the National Endowment for the Arts and the NE Humanities by 10%. While this literally decimates both of the programs it only saves $13.7 million each.

    The austerity measures are not about balancing the budget – it is just using the economic crisis to push through cuts to programs the Republicans loathe. This is why Medicare and Social Security (funded by beneficiaries) are on the chopping block.

  36. 4:20 am……. how kookie is that?

  37. According to a latest Gallup poll, Republican voters (not elected officials) who responded averaged wanting the deficit addressed with about 28% revenue increases and tax loopholes eliminated and 67% spending cuts.

    The average for all voters was about 38% revenue increases and 62% tax cuts.

    From the WSJ analysis, the President’s proposal was about 17% revenue and 83% spending cuts. This is even more than what the Republican voters said they would like to see.

    The House Republicans are only willing to allow 0% revenue and 100% spending cuts. They are totally committed to an ideology and a party instead of the health of our economy and doing what even their own voters will accept as a deal.

    How can anyone state with these facts that it is the President who is the stumbling block. Oh, right, Republicans refuse to help our country out of its economic problems because they do not like the President. I forget. Their hatred for him and loyalty to their idology is a lot stronger than their loyalty to their oath of office.

  38. “The House Republicans are only willing to allow 0% revenue and 100% spending cuts.

    …committed to ideology? and so is the president.

    to the GOP the “revenue” comes from a robust economy…

    to the president the “revenue” comes from the private economy out of the pockets of taxpayers.

    The GOP are not, repeat not opposed to “revenue”, they are for a robust economy which will provide the revenue to first meet the constituional mandated needs of this country.

    also watch out for the details of the proposal. I can propose trillions in cuts, the bulk of which take place over the last 5-6 years of the proposal giving a big number upfront but small cuts out of the gate. that doesn’t stop a future administration/congress from changing that proposal reducing the promised cuts.

    also be aware that we have no current budget to work from. hence we have no baseline so promised cuts can appear more than they are and must be compared apple for apple, orange for orange.

  39. LarryFine says:

    Well, they should cut them 100% then bB.

  40. What politicians fail to realize is that the voters in general don’t want either party to have a huge advantage. Most elections are in reaction to the previous election, but the party that scored big decides that the voters have seen the light and given them a mandate, when in reality the voters were much more interested in balancing power so that nothing too terribly lopsided escapes Congress.

    Republican’s resistance to raising taxes and Democrat’s resistance to cutting spending is what’s causing this stalemate.

    The Bush tax cuts hurt our country as much as overspending. What we need is a little more give from both sides.

    We’re all in this together.

  41. GHTaxPayer says:

    Dear Libs – All polls recently show that the majority of American people (61 – 74%) do NOT want to raise the debt ceiling and want spending cuts and tax loopholes closed to balance the budget.

    When asked if Congress should pass a Balanced Budget amendment, 71 – 82% say YES.

    Why are Obama and the Dems REFUSING to pass a Balanced Budget amendment ??????

  42. “The Bush tax cuts hurt our country as much as overspending. What we need is a little more give from both sides.”

    The current tax rates brought increased revenue and the increase in spending, especially recently, outstripped that revenue… Cut the increased spending to match that increased revenue… then we can talk about the need for more revenue… if necessary.

  43. theglovesRoff says:

    Damit polago!

    You are starting to make sense. And you took a nice pill to boot.

  44. And the ones that mother gives you. Don’t do anything at all …

  45. “tax loopholes closed”

    Like the Bush tax cuts?

  46. GHTaxPayer says:

    Menendez (D) , Schumer (D) and Wasserman-Schultz (D)were interviewed this morning and were asked if they support a Balanced Budget – 2 of them refused to answer and the third said NO.

    This is how arrogant and irresponsible the Democrat party is right now. They just want to keep spending money we don’t have.

  47. GHTaxPayer says:

    I agree with Polago – the loopholes allowing 47% of Americans to pay ZERO taxes need to be closed. ALL Americans need to pay their share of taxes.

  48. Xx98,
    The 4 trillion number has been all over the news for several days now.

    Boehner now says he can’t get the his caucus to accept the 1 trillion revenue increase.

    ‘robust economy’ – like many mega corporations reporting record profits and getting tax refunds at the same time?

    the GOP is not for a robust American economy. They, like their sugar pimps, are only concerned with making profits by not paying their fair share of the tax burden.

    Polago, Obama has offered 3 trillion in spending cuts. The Rpots refusal to accept 1 trillion in revenue increase by closing tax loopholes is the real stalemate.

    Loophole like the ones that all Murdock to make $10.5 billion in profits AND get a $4 trillion tax refund.

    GHT – So sayeth Saint Ronnie of Teflon: ‘Deficits don’t matter!’

    Behind the numbers: Washington Post / Pew Research poll 7-11-11

    42% of Americans surveyed see a greater risk of default by not raising the Debt Limit. (up 7 point from last poll).
    47% of Americans surveyed see a greater risk about raising the Limit.

    66% ofl REPUBLIANS surveyed are more concerned with raising the Limit.
    75% of TEA PARTY adherents surveyed are more concerned with raising the Limit.

    54% of Democrats surveyed see not raising the Limit as the primary concern.
    62% of ‘liberal’ Democrats surveyed see not raising the Limit as the primary concern.

    Surveyed Independents split 46% are concerned with raising the limit, 45% with not doing so.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/behind-the-numbers/post/shifting-public-concerns-in-debt-limit-debate/2011/07/11/gIQAR4WL9H_blog.html

  49. menopaws says:

    I am still wondering why keeping our word and honoring our debts should be part of ANY political throwdown………I may be naive, but I thought this country stood for something–and a big part of that was not just flapping our jaws about living with integrity–it was showing, by example, that we mean it. I don’t give a damn about the polls and I don’t give a damn about a bunch of loser politicians taking a stand about reducing the deficit. I do care about us maintaining our dignity by keeping our word. Default is what losers do……..Wait until this “repo” man shows up!!! How much further does this country have to slide before we are little more than an object of jokes to the rest of the world.? Raise the damn debt ceiling and then get truly serious about doing whatever it takes to reduce our deficit—some pink slips to the Pentagon would be a good start, along with closing some corporate tax loopholes…….It’s not hard—but it has become more about politics than patriotism.

  50. xx98411, what do you call a “robust economy?” To the top 10% wealthiest, today is the best they have ever had it. Salaries, earnings and income have all gone up to the stratosphere with this economy. They can also pass more of that wealth to their families to build financial empires and a class system like we revolted against, not once, but twice when we saw the 1890’s – 1910 revolution in tax strructures to amke sure a few families could not control America.

    To the largest corporations, this is the best economy they have seen in a long, long while, with profits at the highest levels as a percent of gross in over 100 hyears, and total profits at their highest levels in decades.

    The Republican strategies are to keep it just the way it is for those two groups by keeping the middle calss and lower wage earners in their ever-steepening drop in earnings and economic power.

  51. Roncella says:

    A few of the far left who post here actually get it. The spending has to come down and whole Country needs to move towards a balanced budget.

    President Obama who has not presented a serious budget proposal in 3 years needs to get serious and stop with his remarks about eating peas and acting superior to Republicans trying to have talks with him about raising the debt limit,along with No New Taxes and cutting spending

    Shame on Obama and the dems. for scaring social securtiy folks AGAIN in order to win their argument for more taxing and spending and kicking the can down the road again, rather than making an honest strart to a balanced budget.

  52. I never argued for / against nor question debt negotiation related number. It’s all BS until it on paper… for now it’s the figments of the various minds and an attempt to sway public opinion. You can fall for it if you want, I try not to.

    Good, the issue is not a “revenue” increase the issue is “tax rate” increase. Nice wording and spinning “revenue”. I hope they continue to say no to TAX RATE increases.

    Nothing wrong with profits, that is kinda the goal of being in business. And yes you can make a profit and get a tax refund at the same time… it’s called paying too much tax for the period. The same applies to you… remember it’s your money not the governments.

  53. GHTaxPayer, hyou askled about a “balanced budget’ amendment. I think Dems refusing to answer is a lot more honest than Republicans who touted their new rules in Congress that proclainmed to the public they would only pass legislation if their was offsetting cuts and no net increase to the debt.

    What they didn’t proclaim quite so loudly is that they gave Cantor the power to exempt anything they want to exempt. So far they ahve exempted military, highway, tax rebates for oil companies, Insurance and crop subsidies for corporate farmers, and a host of other spending that has increased our current debt.

    Frankly, I am worried that a balanced budget requirement would put Congress in the position of hiding spending for defense costs and pet projects they want, like Bush did, by finding evasive ways of keeping it out of the budget.

    The issue of this round of debt ceiling increases is only tangentially related to future spending. The debt ceiling needs to be raised to pay for spending already authorized by Congress, and approved by the majority of Republicans as well as Democrats. We’ve already spent the money, we need to find a way to pay for it.

  54. menopaws – we need not default if we prioritize our payments. We have enough incoming tax revenue to pay for that…

    We can and will keep our word.

  55. Roncella says:

    xx98411, Your thoughtful posts and accurate posts will fall on deaf ears for some who post here, they just won’t get the message xx98, no matter how clearly and defining your comments are.

    I appreciate you attempting to bring some truth and common sense to these posts.

  56. Roncella says:
    July 14, 2011 at 9:04 am
    A few of the far left who post here actually get it.

    President Obama who has not presented a serious budget proposal in 3 years

    Could that have anything to do with Obama not being in office for 3 years?

    Talk about “getting it”. When are you going to “get it” that your hyperbole is worthless because there are information sources at our fingertips that tell the truth about everything.

    Oh..and budget are in two year cycles.

  57. “I appreciate you attempting to bring some truth and common sense to these posts.”

    thanks for the shout out… like I said before and the wisdom of another poster… I don’t write to change their minds… I write to provide that balance and altenative viewpoint to the casual reader of these boards.

    truth and commen sense will always win out.

  58. I’m wondering why all of these Conservative economy experts are smarter than the financial people that handle ratings.

    I’m also wondering how one say we’re “broke” and another day we have plenty of money to pay the bills.

    It’s all a matter of political spin on the Right.

  59. “GHTaxPayer says:
    July 14, 2011 at 7:54 am
    Dear Libs – All polls recently show that the majority of American people (61 – 74%) do NOT want to raise the debt ceiling and want spending cuts and tax loopholes closed to balance the budget.”

    Dear CONS: Today’s release of a Quinnipac poll shows that 54% of those polled blame the economy on George Bush versus 27% that blame Obama.

    Quinnipiac also found that 67 – 25 percent of respondents think that an agreement to raise the debt ceiling should include tax hikes for the wealthy and corporations, not just spending cuts.

    Quit CONNING us, CONS

  60. “I write to provide that balance and altenative viewpoint to the casual reader of these boards.”

    This is what FOX Media says about their product.

  61. xx98’s posts on this thread have been as thoughtful and accurate as 3pigs and ItalianSprings posts generally are.

  62. Roncella says:

    xring, and your suppose to be the last word about being thoughtful and accurate !!!

    Your kidding right ??

  63. Republicans take the lead??

    LOL Thanks for the laugh!
    I didn’t even have to read the letter to know it is full of the sppon fed media talking points and out right lies that the right wing extremists are spreads and have been spreading for years now.

    You have to just laugh at this point, it really is all you can do. Facts, reason rational discution does no good with them, as the comments here prove, so laughing is all a guy can do.

  64. DAVID STOCKMAN, Reagan’s budget director, said: ” the gop destroyed the economy”. now all you uneducated gopcult members shut up. If Stockman says the gop destroyed the economy HE IS CORRECT.

  65. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Yes, Fox News Is Fair and Balanced and leans Right.

    MSNBC is not fair and balanced and leans far far left.

    CNN is not fair and balanced and leans far left.

    NPR is not fair and balanced and leans far left.

    ABC, CBS, NBC, are not fair and balanced and all lean to the left.

    Letterman/stewart sat. nite live all clown shows and all lean far left. (but are entertaining to watch)

  66. The real question is now that the GOP has tried to hold the nation and the economy hostage to push through their radical and unwanted agenda, and that has failed in a way that new words need to be invented to describe, how are they going to back themselves out of that corner?

  67. karnos – standard response… you post alot but say little to nothing… and yea Roncella’s outfit is hot… mine is a hot pink hot pant with black 3″ heels, black bare mid-drift with my beer gut flopping over… how that’s for an image to make your day?

    xring – what have I said that is factually incorrect? You may not agree with my opinion and I do not yours but again, what fact, again fact, that I have presented that is incorrect? I am asking to help my feeble, alcohol drenched mind.

    are we in the “you got nothing else so attack the messenger” phase… pitiful

  68. xring – what have I said that is factually incorrect?

    anything???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

  69. LF – even cutting both Endowments completely would make no significant impact upon the total budget as they are each only $135 million total.

    Agricultural subsidies, Oil Subsidies, the Military – that’s where the real money (and waste) is.

  70. Xx98, how about.

    1. That the $4 trillion spending / revenue package was factually wrong.

    2. That I was getting the above number from a discarded Reuters post.

    3. That Obama’s original 2011 Budget was defeated in the Senate 97 – 0.

    4. That ‘revenue increase’ would be by raising tax rates rather than by closing
    tax loopholes.

    5. That there is enough income to keep the country out of default.

  71. The rightists are getting desperate, at this point with the FBI starting a criminal investigation into the tactics of fox news and the scum bag owner murdock, roncella is still claiming they are ‘fair and balanced’.

    my god, no one still thinks that, no one.

  72. 1. That the $4 trillion spending / revenue package was factually wrong.
    I have no clue where I discussed this with you. Can you please refer me to the post / posts where this occurred.

    2. That I was getting the above number from a discarded Reuters post.
    What “above” number? The $4 trillion spending package? I challenged your claim of a ridiculous profit and tax refund from News Corp, that was bogus. You claim it wasn’t from Reuters, I take you at your word. I then stated that I don’t care where you got the number from. You made the statement and it is still bogus.

    3. That Obama’s original 2011 Budget was defeated in the Senate 97 – 0.
    Obama’s recent budget proposal submitted earlier this year was defeated in the Senate 97-0. How you don’t know that, is a mystery to me unless that vote was too traumatic and cause a memory loss.

    4. That ‘revenue increase’ would be by raising tax rates rather than by closing tax loopholes.
    One of the proposals has been to raise the 35% tax rate to 39%. It is a tax bracket.

    When you eliminate a tax deduction (your calling it a tax loophole) you are effectively increasing the rate of tax a person and/or corporation is paying. Hence when the various proposals speak of removing a tax deduction, you are increasing the rate of taxation for that individual / corporation.

    The problem is that no written proposal has come from the President nor the Senate Democrats, hence why you and I can argue about crap and not have a clue if we are on the same page.

    5. That there is enough income to keep the country out of default.
    We have about $200bn dollars of tax revenue coming in every month, and can cover the payment required to pay the debt and interest. Don’t believe me then how about the bearded one…

    ”Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Wednesday said the United States would keep paying interest on government debt if Congress failed to reach a deal to lift the debt ceiling by Aug. 2.”

  73. “truth and commen sense will always win out”

    Which is why the right always loses.

  74. “xtp855 says:
    July 14, 2011 at 12:42 pm
    The rightists are getting desperate, at this point with the FBI starting a criminal investigation into the tactics of fox news and the scum bag owner murdock, roncella is still claiming they are ‘fair and balanced’.

    my god, no one still thinks that, no one”

    Have you noticed the “fair and balanced” coverage of the Murdock debacle? I’ve been forcing myself to watch FOX just to see if they are reporting anything about Newscorp’s problems and NOT ONE WORD.

    Fairly unbalanced. LOL

  75. “. That Obama’s original 2011 Budget was defeated in the Senate 97 – 0.
    Obama’s recent budget proposal submitted earlier this year was defeated in the Senate 97-0. How you don’t know that, is a mystery to me unless that vote was too traumatic and cause a memory loss.”

    Now a 97-0 defeat in the Senate, means that the House passed the Budget. Why do the Conservatives avoid that?

    So….Obama proposed something, The House worked it over and passed it and the Senate unanimously refused it……which means the Senate GOP tossed by the House (GOP majority) budget.

  76. Seeing that we are recalling fond memories….

    “The president’s budget called for ending tax cuts for the wealthy and a three-year domestic spending freeze, saving an estimated $1.1 trillion over 10 years. Democratic senators at the time called it “an important step forward”, “a good start” and a “credible blueprint.”

    No Democratic senator was willing to support it, however, after Obama discussed a more ambitious plan at George Washington University to save $4 trillion over 12 years. Republicans criticized his speech for lacking detail.

    The White House Office of Management and Budget declined to comment on the president’s budget receiving zero votes in the Senate.

    The Senate also rejected the House-passed budget sponsored by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), which failed on a 40-57 vote.”

    Now it would appear that the Democratic Senators are the ones that can avoid partisan voting

  77. Now it would appear that the Democratic Senators are the ones that can avoid partisan voting.

    that is a good attempt as spin and applying some lipstick…

    but how bad did the budget have to be to not even get the vote of the most butt kissing dem in the senate… you would think that at least one would have thought to vote yes, be the only one and get invited to the white house for some kool-aid and cookies…

    partisan voting… too funny… it’s like your own mother rejecting you when you get a 97 to donut vote like that…. ouch…

    looking forward to you dragging some wretched counter point from the sewer…

  78. “watch FOX just to see if they are reporting anything about Newscorp’s problems and NOT ONE WORD.”

    That must be why the rightists here don’t know anything about it!

    Of course when they do report the criminal investigation of their scum bag owner, they will spin it to be the ‘libs’ fault!

  79. “Republicans take lead…….”

    Still makes me laugh!

  80. alindasue says:

    xx98411 said, “but how bad did the budget have to be to not even get the vote of the most butt kissing dem in the senate… you would think that at least one would have thought to vote yes, be the only one and get invited to the white house for some kool-aid and cookies…”

    According to an article on abcnews.com, “The White House responded Thursday to a unanimous 0-97 Senate vote against a motion to vote on President Obama’s budget.”

    As KARDNOS pointed out, President Obama’s proposed budget passed the House. The vote in the Senate was not on the budget itsself, but whether to vote on the budget. Apparently, they didn’t consider it finalized enough yet to bring to a vote at this time. They were convinced to vote on Rep. Ryan’s budget and it was defeated 40-57. No doubt the Democrats in the Senate felt that President Obama’s budget would face the same fate if brought for a vote prematurely.

    President Obama’s budget could not have been defeated at this point because it hasn’t yet been voted on.

    For a moderate or independent voter such as myself, having the balance of a Republican controlled House and a Democrat controlled Senate sounds like the ideal situation. However, what are we to do when the members of the different parties refuse to cooperate with each other? Mr. Aden in his letter blames the Democrats, saying that President Obama “…sarcastically and condescendingly berates his political opponents…”, yet it was the Republican lawmakers who after the 2010 election stated that their main goal was to make sure that President Obama is a one term president.

    I might consider a Republican candidate in 2012, but so far most of the Republican support seems to be behind candidates or potential candidates that are little more than clowns. The few Republican candidates who would appeal to independents and moderates – Jon Huntsman, for instance – seem to be largely ignored by the press and their own party.

  81. alindasue says:

    Roncella,

    From what I’ve seen:

    MSNBC does lean a bit to the left, but is usually pretty balanced as is CNN most of the time. However, CNN’s news, much like Yahoo! News and this paper seems to go wherever the sensational headlines are. It’s all “entertainment” these days.

    NPR can be pretty slanted. I would say that it is the liberal’s answer to Fox.

    ABC, NBC, and CBS, seem to anger conservatives and liberals alike which means their reporting is probably pretty balanced overall.

    I’ve watched FOX News. It is anything but fair and balanced. Of all the networks, Fox’s “facts” often seem the most distorted, especially since President Obama took office.

  82. “Fair and Balanced” means willing to break the law by phone hacking to get some juicy celebrity gossip?

  83. That and going to court in FL to win the right to out and out lie while calling it ‘news’.
    That is fair and balanced.

    Thing is, even if they find out that they did hack phones here in the US and used the info, the foxbots like the ones we have here will keep swallowing what they put out.
    Look at limbaugh, drug addict and liar, they follow that moron like he is the pied piper.

  84. Hey alindasue, if you and I have this conversation then we would agree on many factual points though our conclusions may be a different based on our respective leanings.

    The vote I am factually referring to is Senate Continuing Resolution 18 – A concurrent resolution setting … fiscal year 2012, … budgetary levels for fiscal years 2013 through 2021.

    Using Thomas, I am not seeing anywhere where the President’s Budget Request was even considered much less introduced in the House. SCR 18 was introduced 5/18 and voted on 5/25…. in the Senate. It shows related to HCR 34 (Ryan’s Bill).

    “…finalized…” – from what I remember the typical cost of the proposal and the tax increases were the issue. Though I do agree that the GOP wanted and Reid allowed a vote to determine status.

    Again wording is important, I believe I was consistent with the term “budget proposal” knowing that a slip-up in this venue is eviscerating.

    Then as an independent my opinion is that you are seeing a battle of ideologies that will rage on over the next 6-8 years or so. There will be no compromise or middle ground in the coming years as one side sees an America where the federal government is the centralized planner and the power is central to DC. And the other side see power residing where I believe it was meant to be, the States.

    Bush, bless his Texas sized heart, attempted that compassionate conservative stuff… sorry oxymoronic. Kinda like saying Obama is a conservative (some word?) liberal… sorry doesn’t work.

    Mr. Aden is correct… President Obama does berate… blah, blah… and the GOP responds, beginning the olde Hatfield and McCoy feud. Does it make it right, nope. It is a full on ideological battle. I don’t have a problem with the battle, it must occur moving forward but the discourse for not only politicians but across the social spectrum is poor. This discussion board is nothing more than a reflection of that battle.

    A one term president… that should come as no surprise as that is the goal of all opposing parties that lose the election. I suspect that a GOP victor in 2012 can expect the same goal from the Senate and House opposing leaders.

    The race for 2012 is way early in my view. I am actually glad the media is ignoring (unless it’s dirt) the candidates for President. I don’t need 2008 all over again.

    If I may be so bold, please consider not a Republican nor a Democrat but a candidate that reflects what your beliefs of what leader should be. I also ask that you consider FoxNews as an alternate source for news. Not because I think they are fair and balance but because I think the offer a view of the issues from a relatively conservative prospective. That view along with (pick any one of the others) can provide a broader perspective than watching one singular viewpoint.

  85. “That and going to court in FL to win the right to out and out lie while calling it ‘news’.
    That is fair and balanced.”

    that wasn’t the gist of the case but considering the source… beside you should be glad for your version as MSNBC, CNN and the rest wouldn’t be able to exist if they found different.

  86. Alindasue – I’m going to suggest you don’t listen to NPR very much.

  87. “xx98411 says:
    July 14, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    Now it would appear that the Democratic Senators are the ones that can avoid partisan voting.

    that is a good attempt as spin and applying some lipstick…

    Do the math.

  88. LarryFine says:

    “MSNBC does lean a bit to the left, but is usually pretty balanced as is CNN most of the time”

    LMAO !!!!

  89. “Do the math.

    ??? What are you saying?

  90. For all you FoxNews haters and of course, defenders of the First Amendment, I look forward to your support of FoxNews as a media entity as well as unqualified support for a “fair and balanced” investigation into their journalistic practices.

    Good God the founding Fathers were soooooo gifted to believe and articulate (without a teleprompter by the way) the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty.

    “Deputy White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest bluntly described the White House’s position on Fox News Channel in an October 23, 2009, email to LeCompte: “We’ve demonstrated our willingness and ability to exclude Fox News from significant interviews…”

    A separate point is how will you know when an administration is lying to you when FoxNews is the only one standing in front of them with a microphone in their face and the rest of them are behind them… well, you know, below the waistline kissing sun deprived parts of the anatomy.

  91. Since when does anyone have to be subject to interview by any media source? There is nothing in the First Amendment that even comes close to that concept.

    If you claim the Administration is doing something wrong for thinking that FOX is dishonest and isn’t going to subject themselves to said dishonesty…..

    Let’s take a look at Sarah Palin’s wimperings about “Lame Stream Media” It’s lame stream when she doesn’t like what they say but when she is pimping her candidacy or a book, she is more than happy to be in front of the “Lame Stream Media cameras.

  92. xx98
    items 1&2.
    My post 7-13-11@5:58PM focused on the Debt limit.
    Your response 7-13-11@6:34PM was ‘Your post is factually incorrect and not even close . . “ and failed to specific what was incorrect about my post.

    item 3.
    Obama original budget 97-0 – I concede the vote but remind you that Only The Hose can Propose a budget bill so I have to wonder exactly what was the Senate voting on.

    item 4.
    Raising tax bracket to 39% – I challenge you to show me where that came from.

    As I read the news the only tax bracket change is to move some incomes form the 15% ‘investment’ bracket into the regular tax brackets.

    Closing the rest of tax loopholes would increase the amount taxable income.

    Item 5.
    Yes the Government has $200 billion of tax revenue coming in per month.

    HOWEVER, the Government has $300 billion in required monthly outlays.

  93. Roncella,
    ‘leans right’ negates ‘fair and balanced’

    Xx98,
    ‘one side sees an America where the federal government is the centralized planner and the power is central to DC’

    More like they see the federal government as the root of all evil.

    ’And the other side sees power residing where I believe it was meant to be, the States.’

    But only if controlled by the GOP to serve the needs of mega corps and the rich.

    The gist of the case was the FOX ‘NEWS’ claimed they were really an ‘ENTERTAINMENT’ network and therefore did not have present the truth.

  94. Two issues here karnos

    FOIA disclosures are showing that FoxNews was singled out for treatment that was well beyond biased and favoritism. Can Obama have a favorite, go to interviewer… Can they show a bias, they need to show some caution…. But when they “…demonstrated our willingness and ability to exclude Fox News from significant interviews…” Please tell me you are not comfortable with the administration position expecially as the most powerful office in the world. My point stands – how will you know you are not being lied to by an administration if you exclude an entire network that appears to be asking the question the administration is hesitant to answer?

    You First Amendment guys, I will be shocked if you believe significantly otherwise.

    I am not claiming anything… the administration is in the beginning phases using the FBI as the investigative arm. My expectation are that the FBI will be objective in their investigation. Considering the above, do you not have some reservations that the communications policy of the administration may politicize the investigation?

    About Sarah Palin – she is a citizen and can have all the favorites and be as biased as she wants to be. If she declares her candidacy, common sense tells me she will alter her behavior, looking to favorites as her go to to get an unfiltered point of view out. If she become President… pause… (waiting for you to get back up in your chair) then I demand that she treat all, yes, all media agencies fairly (even if they continue to treat her like crap). Doesn’t mean she can’t have a favorite but she surely can’t demonstrate her willingness and ability to exclude (insert lame stream media outfit here) from significant interviews…”

    We can join hands, sing kumbaya and impeach her butt.

  95. #1&2
    I guess we need to be as specific as possible… we’ll do that moving forward… me and you, uh bud.

    “…such as the ones that allowed Ruper$10.4 billion in profits and get a $4 billion tax refund.”

    Still factually incorrect…

    #3
    See the post above with karnos followed by alindasue (my conversation with alindasue was cordial and well… normal so it might take you aback a little.

    #4
    It’s the $250,000 rich top tax bracket thingy (see what I mean by spinning competing proposals and counterproposals). Obama wants that bad… real bad…

    “Closing the rest of tax loopholes would increase the amount taxable income.
    It will also increase your effective tax rate if those tax deductions are not available to you.

    #5
    Yes the Government has $200 billion of tax revenue coming in per month.
    HOWEVER, the Government has $300 billion in required monthly outlays.

    Yep, sure does, but that interest payment better come first. Sucks to be Obama having to prioritize what gets paid first, second to ultimately left on the kitchen table… do you think NPR and Planned Parenthood will make the top 10… top 100… top 1000?

  96. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Incredible how much Fox News drives the left crazy. One non-left media outlet and they whine and complain. My guess is they have never actually watched it. Stick to your Daily Show. I’ll stick to the web and the news channel that actually shows both sides of an arguement. They are not perfect (I find hannity unbearable), but the best of what’s available.

    Asking the average earner if the rich/corporations should pay more is a loaded question. We are such a selfish, entitlement society of course people are going to want someone else to pay for their burden and entitlements. Ask those who work for a Fortune 500 company or small business if they would support tax increases if it meant their company would employ less people. Ask those people if they would support higher taxes if it meant all those taxes would equal higher prices for all the goods and services they buy. Would they support it then?

    Businesses exist to make a profit. We are a global economy. Push them too far and they will take thier business model and employ it elsewhere, whether it is South Carolina or China.

  97. Xx98,
    ‘one side sees an America where the federal government is the centralized planner and the power is central to DC’

    More like they see the federal government as the root of all evil.

    xring this is an intervention… dude could you not see that I was comparing and contrasting the libs and conservatives… the above would be the Liberals in my analogy… (or metaphor???)

    a homer simpson would say… dooh!!!

  98. ct7 – it isn’t that they are a “non-left media outlet”. It is the fact that they just make stuff up to fit their agenda.

    An example: William F. Buckley, jr. – rarely agreed with his views but I respected him as he maintained his integrity. FOX News – I have no respect for them as they have no integrity.

  99. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    July 14, 2011 at 9:35 pm
    Incredible how much Fox News drives the left crazy. One non-left media outlet and they whine and complain.”

    Incredible how the Right Wing Sound Machine keeps churning out the “leftist media” threat. FOX created the “leftist media” (along with Limbaugh and the GOP) and then went on to say that they are opposition to leftist media, which is purely an admission to their bias.

    “Drives the left crazy” is hyperbole. What drives this lefty crazy is a “fair and balanced media” that can’t cover a story of their own problems in Great Britain.

  100. beerBoy – I am an avid watcher of Bill Maher. Reason? Live broadcast and a sincere desire to have a mixed panel of Conservatives and Liberals. Last week he had Ann Coulter on the panel. There was her golden opportunity to show up the liberals with her superior knowledge she claims to have….and all she did was smirk, cackle and throw a few insults, mostly at Maher. She offered up no serious dialog about the issues.

    I, too, respected Buckley. Of course he’d be known as a liberal by today’s crowd.

  101. so….xx….since Sarah Palin is a “private citizen” she can have all the hypocrisy she wants, but an elected official MUST go on certain media?

    We’ll be looking for John Boehner, Eric Cantor and Mitch McConnell on MSNBC.

    I think their appointment secretary – Helen Waite – is handling that. If you want to see any of them on MSNBC, go to Helen Waite.

  102. Karnos – stop being dense…

    Our government has “…demonstrated our willingness and ability to exclude Fox News from significant interviews…”

    They are showing a hostile bias against a news organization. As I said I don’t have a problem is they have a preference, a go to interviewer… what we should be all concerned about is a government that is hostile and using the power of its office to exclude and have a bias against a singled out entity.

    There is no hypocrisy with Sara Palin, she can have all the preference she wants…. She is a non-issue, why you bring her up… a second time, is a mystery to me.

    The GOP crew has been on MSNBC, I have personally seen what passes for an interview on that channel… again the issue is not with the Senate nor the House nor MSNBC… the issue is with the Executive branch.

    Helen?… if I wanna see them on MSNBC?… what?… dude, are you comprehending the issue?

  103. Two things about Fox and PBS.

    First, with PBS, Kenneth Y. Tomlinson, appointed by Bush as chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, paid a conservative analyst to conduct a secret study of what Tomlinson said was the worst case of bias in broadcast media, the Now program headed by Bill Moyers.

    The study was critical of Moyers for frequently attacking Tom deLay, who was then Speaker of the House. (Mr deLay left the House in disgrace and now is a convicted felon, so perhaps some criticism was warranted)

    However, the study also found that Mr. Moyers’s guests included many conservatives, like Ralph Reed, former head of the Christian Coalition; Richard Viguerie, a conservative political strategist; and Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform. The analyst stated that Mr Moyers asked pointed questions, but allowed his guest to state their positions in full.

    If that is the worst example of media bias, I guess Tomlinson never watched any of the interview shows on Fox, which does not allow any guest to state their positions if they are different than Murdoch’s, but interrupts them in mid sentence, even the President.

    Second, I will be interested in seeing if O’Reilly calls for incarceraton of all people who run Murdoch’s corporation and who run his media empire like he did when Palin’s e-mails were hacked and shared. He said on his show that everyone who runs those outlets as well as the corporation executives should go to prison. Will he call for the same if Murdoch’s US based business is found guilty of hacking and airing the information found? If he is “fair and balanced” he will.

  104. “…. – I am an avid watcher of Bill Maher. …”

    Now I understand more about you and your views than you’ll ever know…

  105. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Funny, they were discussing the situation in England just this morning.

    Try again Kard.

    And BB- the “make stuff up” line is making stuff up.

    Stick to your hate filled MSNBC. If that network were a metric on the health, sanity, intelligence, and happiness of our great nation we are all in big trouble.

  106. The GOP crew has been on MSNBC, I have personally seen what passes for an interview on that channel…

    The leaders of the GOP refuse to be on MSNBC – in particular Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz. Keith Olbermann was a big no-no.

    If you’ve “personally seen what passes for an interview”, then you’d know that fact.

    “concernedtacoma7 says:
    July 15, 2011 at 8:21 am
    Funny, they were discussing the situation in England just this morning.”

    FINALLY?????? I’ve been monitoring FOX for the past week waiting to see their propaganda and I’ve seen NOTHING. I’m guessing that this morning’s coverage was a response to all the prodding by other media sources.

  107. So…Concerned….give us the “upfront and personal” on FOX’s coverage of the Newscorp scandal

  108. “xx98411 says:
    July 15, 2011 at 7:57 am
    “…. – I am an avid watcher of Bill Maher. …”

    Now I understand more about you and your views than you’ll ever know”

    I see. You are not a big fan of live broadcast of dialog panels with balanced viewpoints, huh?

  109. “There is no hypocrisy with Sara Palin, she can have all the preference she wants…. ”

    and I’m called “dense”. LOL

    I guess Ted Haggard wasn’t hypocritical because he was just exercising “preference”…..

    I could add a long list to Ted, but he’s just the first to enter my mind.

  110. “There is no hypocrisy with Sara Palin”

    Good gawd, you said that out loud!
    After you called some one else ‘dense’.

  111. I’ve told this story before, but it is timely with the subject.

    Oprah Winfrey had Sarah Palin on her show to pimp her book. As they opened the interview, Oprah brought up the accusations leveled at her by FOX that she had “snubbed” Palin during the campaign. Palin and Oprah agreed that the assertion was false.

    The next morning, on Fox and Friends, they aired segments of the interview and one of their talking heads said “Sarah Palin shouldn’t have gone on Oprah’s show because Oprah snubbed her during the campaign.

    Fair and balanced.

  112. “I also ask that you consider FoxNews as an alternate source for news. Not because I think they are fair and balance but because I think the offer a view of the issues from a relatively conservative prospective.”

    Which of course is the very reason to NOT watch foxnotnews, as we all know the ‘conservative prospective’ is one of lies, misinformation. more lies and untruths.

  113. that wasn’t the gist of the case but considering the source

    It was the gist and the outcome of the case but your eyes are wide shut to the truth and reality so we do ‘consider the source’….which is the gist of the current conversation.

  114. Karnos – you and I do not monitor FoxNews, MSNBC and CNN 24/7 so please…

    Again you are ignoring the fact that the Executive branch of the United States of America, the most powerful office (at least for now) in the history of the world has chosen to “…demonstrated our willingness and ability to exclude Fox News from significant interviews…”

    Referring to my first sentence…. So what, so what if they (GOP) do actually refuse because as you say “Since when does anyone have to be subject to interview by any media source? There is nothing in the First Amendment that even comes close to that concept.”

    Bill Maher… he is a good satirist… keyword… satirist.

    Sarah Palin – dude, what does she have to do with the Executive branch of the United States? She has a preference and I even submit a bias… SO WHAT?

  115. “The leaders of the GOP refuse to be on MSNBC – in particular Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz. Keith Olbermann was a big no-no.”

    If I were the GOP… heck even a Dem… I wouldn’t want to go on any of there shows.

    Rachel is a prissy little thing that thinks being a Rhodes Scholar automatically make one smart

    Ed Shultz is nothing more that a loud mouth

    Keith Olberman is a loud mouth with a thesarus

  116. Roncella says:

    Yes its true, some liberal brains goes on overdrive when ever certain names are mentioned, like Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News(fair and balanced). There are more but for the sake of discussion those will do.

    President Obama is the most Socialistic President I believe the Country has ever had. The Lame Stream Media totally leans to the left. They continue to provide cover for Obama and Reid and Pelosi, as they go about spending us all into Bankruptcy.

    Taxing the top 2% of the richest folks in the nation does not get us to a balance budget, or more jobs. Thats a fact.

    Alone comes Fox News which has many shows presenting many opinions with both the left and right side of the arguement being presented fairly, not three to five libs to one conservative guest to debate the issues.

    Why the far left fears Limbaugh and Sarah Palin for example is they are very Conservative in their beliefs. They make no excuses for their Conservative ideas and beliefs. This drives liberals crazy, as most don’t have really core beliefs they go on emotion and feelings.

    Bill Maher, is a bitter nasty extreme far left kook. Anyone that thinks his show is fair and balanced a mental midget for sure.

  117. Excuse me….overdrive.

  118. Nice try Palago… I raise the issue that the administration has “…demonstrated our willingness and ability to exclude Fox News from significant interviews…”

    Everyone bravo, good attempt at divert, nice try… we’ve done this before… raise an issue and avoid it like a budget cut.. go ahead. None of you have commented on the issue raised, not one…

    So, you – Palago – got anything about the first sentence and the issue raised by that… I am all ears.

  119. President Obama is the most Socialistic President I believe the Country has ever had.

    Please support your belief. With facts. Include comparisons to other Presidents’ programs (I suggest you start with FDR).

  120. I suspect that no one cares whether Fox is being snubbed by the administration, xx98411 except Fox, who seems to want to make an issue out of it. I personally, don’t care that Palin snubs whoever she snubs. She’s the one who may have to appeal to a majority of the voters one day, or that you feel snubbed by those not responding to your issue.

    Maybe you could send a letter to the editor about your issue and see who salutes it.

  121. If the Executive has decided not to go on Fox, why is it I saw Obama three nights running being interviewed by Fox?

    I think Fox suppoters are remembering the brief period during 2009 when Obama and Fox were in a tug of war because Fox routinely was calling for the Republican party to refuse to confirm Obama appointees. The Republican Party has followed through with their Fox masters, and the largest number of appointees in history (by a large margin) have been blocked by Republicans from even coming to a vote.

    Only Fox has been secretly spoon-fed talking points and used them to influence public discourse in a one-sided way. Other media outlets provide opportunities for different sides to rebut or discuss issues. MSNBC even has the former head of the RNC on its payroll, and he is freqjuently interviewed by Maddow, as he was while he was Chair.

    Scott McClellan, former White House Press Secretary for President George W. Bush stated that the Bush White House routinely gave talking points to Fox News commentators in order to influence discourse and content.

    McClellan stated that these talking points were issued to provide Fox News commentators with issues and perspectives favorable to the White House and Republican Party. Fox repeated them verbatim without rebuttal or discussion from other viewpoints.

    Fox is the only major media outlet to refuse to air Democratic statements after major Bush Presidential speeches.

  122. Hey palago…

    A poster threw out the standard FoxNews meat and as predicted the lions come out, on both sides, and attempt to get their share of the red meat. I found an article, validated the subject and decided to present an issue and ask a simple question.

    My premise based on the data – the Executive branch of the United Stated of America has singled out a news network and has engaged in acts of exclusion.

    My question – doesn’t that give anyone of you pause?

    My premise based on reaction – is that, as you say, no one cares. OK…

    My working opinion – I agree with you, it’s because it is FoxNews, a network that is the “enemy” and it is OK to do just that. Remember that when it is a station that you align your opinion with the same bias as FoxNews. How will you know when an administration is not lying to you? Anita Dunn specifically said her objective is to get the news to parrot what the administration wants them to parrot. She may be gone but the objective seems to be alive and well.

    Based on the limited response, I’ll be too busy responding to irrational FoxNews hate posts as oppose to the issue of administrative bias.

    Thanks for your feedback

  123. “If the Executive has decided not to go on Fox, why is it I saw Obama three nights running being interviewed by Fox?”

    Recently? I don’t see it, if you care to share who the interviewer was, thanks.

    tuddo – let’s go down this road… are you trying to justify the administrations behavior?

    as far as the rest of your post… ok, you don’t care for FoxNews. i get it. The administration has an active, exclusionary bias against a news network… anything on that?

  124. Just like Bush had an exclusive relationship with Fox. Want to go down that road?

    Only one exception proves it is not “exclusionary”. I am not trying to justify the Adminsitraton’s behavior. It is you that is trying to make a case that Fox is all fair and balanced, so I am providing facts to show the opposite.

    The issues about Obama excluding Fox happened in 2009. The Presidents interview with Baier was in March, 2010, and with O’Reilly was in February, 2011, which are both more current than the White House trying to exclude Fox from a news pool interview in 2009. Fox was ultimately included when the White House saw that the pool journalists would not go along with it.

  125. Tuddo

    I am talking about ANY administration that works to exclude a major news network… Any.

    Why are we talking about Bush. He is no longer in office and is kicking dirt in Texas? His relation with the media… simple, they hated him and undermined him at every opportunity, so. Such is life for a conservative in office. They’ll deal with it and I as a consumer of the news acknowledge it occurs and look to various sources to (1) perform a check and balance of what I read/hear/see and (2) broaden my perspective of analysis and opinions of the issues of the day.

    “Exclusive” there are about 9+ media organizations that would have eviscerated both the President and FoxNews if that is true. If you got anything that I can refer to I am all fingers. Thanks. (Unless you are talking about Media Matters and their spin on that… they got issues man, sorry. My perspective is broad but I find I can’t get that drunk or stoned to believe their “analysis” or “opinion”)

    Nor am I trying to make a case for FoxNews. In my view again, this isn’t about FoxNews, it is about an administration. I will never state that FoxNews is “all fair and balanced” I specifically said I believe they approach the news in a fairer and more balanced way. Do I think they have a bias… yep. But its a big Duh!… they all do, they all have a bias. Hence why I watch the mainstream media. I just think they are less biased than the others.

    If your post at 10:47 is considered to you to be facts, then I need to validate what I see as a bias presentation of the issues raised. Do I think you are wrong per se? naw, but these charges, on both sides, are almost always exaggerated or blow out of proportion to fit a point of view.

    Do I think a White House gives “talking points” to the news media, oh yeah, they are trying to spin their perspective their way. That’s a big duh too. To only FoxNews… really???

    “Fox was ultimately included when the White House saw that the pool journalists would not go along with it.

    True, but doesn’t it give you pause that an administration, any administration would think this is appropriate behavior for their communications arm?

  126. “Taxing the top 2% of the richest folks in the nation does not get us to a balance budget, or more jobs. Thats a fact.”

    No one has ever said that it would roncella.
    By contrast, you and your party have been saying for decades now that not taxing the top 2% will create jobs and will balance the budget….since we know it won’t…..
    Why then do you cling to the myth that it will?

  127. “the Executive branch of the United Stated of America has singled out a news network and has engaged in acts of exclusion.”

    fox is not a ‘news’ network, it’s a tabloid at best and a propaganda network at worst.
    The executive is well within it’s right to not deal with tabloids or propaganda networks.

  128. Roncella says:

    If Liberals were more fair and balanced in there reasoning ability and had more common sense even they would agree that Obama and his handlers who control who has access to him in the Press would be alarmed that Obama The President of the United States and his handlers selected Fox News to not give any interviews with.

    Why do the libs/progressives get so upset ?? They have all the other major outlets on cable and regular T.V. who lean to the left or far left depending on which channel you may happen to watch, yet they want to shut down Fox or discredit their News Reporting.

  129. Roncella, your problem is you start out with falsities, and then try to build a case on misinformation.

    I have alreasdy proved that your statement, “The President of the United States and his handlers selected Fox News to not give any interviews with” is totally false, so the rest of your argument based on that is nothing but sophistry.

  130. proof???

    Scott,

    There are miserable creatures like you in every administration who don’t have the guts to speak up or quit if there are disagreements with the boss or colleagues. No, your type soaks up the benefits of power, revels in the limelight for years, then quits, and spurred on by greed, cashes in with a scathing critique.

    Bod Dole

    Sound more like a he said, he said… sorry, proof???

  131. Roncella says:

    tuddo, Once again your far left tunnel vision gets in the way of your ability to admit the truth. It was reported on when it happened that Obama wanted nothing what so ever to do with including Fox News along with the other News outlets.

    This was reported on by liberals just like you, Tuddo, they admitted it and they represented many other news outlets. They were not happy with the way Obama and his handlers were treating Fox News.

    You go right ahead skipping along happy and confused in your world of far left dreams and your blogs and computer and don’t think for yourself Tuddo, oh no, don’t even try.

  132. Here is a whole website devoted to stuff Fox makes up:
    http://foxnewslies.net/

    If you want it in a more entertaining fashion, here is John Stewart reading a list of lies:
    http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/responding-to-politifact-stewart-reads-laundry-list-of-fox-news-lies/

  133. Roncella, I am sorry you are so brainwashed that you cannot see false logic when it is thrown in your face.

    You can’t say that Obama doesn’t give interviews with Fox when there is evidence on the internet (and my memory from watching the interviews) that he has given one each year with Fox for the last three years.

    I shake my head in amazement that the techniques that Fox uses has reached so far into the brains of their constant viewers that al logic and ability to think for themselves has been lost.

    I also admitted that there was one specific instance where the Obama administration asked the Treasury department not to include Fox in the reporter pool in 2009, but the other reporters said, “No Fox, no interviews,” so Fox was included.

    If you have other specific evidence, please share it so we can all look at it. However, your sweeping claim that Obama does not give Fox interviews is a total lie.

  134. beerboy didn’t we go through this before… I asked one of you guys to pick a lie, any lie and we did an analysis only to find that many of the postings were opinion not fact.

    Anyway, on a side note, I didn’t take you for one to pile on ad hominum… ok I guess that is you. Good to know moving forward.

  135. xx – The John Stewart link was him reading politifact.com’s list. Explain how you can dismiss all of the following as “opinion”

    Glenn Beck: Less than 10 percent of Obama’s Cabinet appointees “have any experience in the private sector.” — False (December 2, 2009)

    Steve Doocy: White House Political Director Patrick Gaspard once served as the “right-hand man” for Bertha Lewis, who heads up ACORN. — False (September 30, 2009)

    Gretchen Carlson: Says the Texas State Board of Education is considering eliminating references to Christmas and the Constitution in textbooks. — Pants on Fire! (March 12, 2010)

    PolitiFact’s Lie of the Year: ‘A government takeover of health care’ (December 16, 2010)

    Glenn Beck: The Muslim Brotherhood has “openly stated they want to declare war on Israel.” — False (February 15, 2011)

    Karl Rove: “American troops have never been under the formal control of another nation.” — False (March 29, 2011)

    Brian Kilmeade: Says Gov. Rick Scott’s approval ratings are up. — False (April 15, 2011)

    Laura Ingraham: The Massachusetts health care plan is “wildly unpopular” among state residents. — False (May 16, 2011)

    Sarah Palin: “Look at the debt that has been accumulated in the last two years. It’s more debt under this president than all those other presidents combined.” — False (June 1, 2011)

    PolitiFact’s Lie of the Year: ‘Death panels’ (December 18, 2009)

    Kimberly Guilfoyle: If you log into the government’s Cash for Clunkers Web site (cars.gov) from your home computer, the government can “seize all of your personal and private” information, and track your computer activity. — False (August 3, 2009)

    Sarah Palin: “We’re going to be looking at $8 billion a day that we’re going to be pouring into foreign countries in order to import that make-up fuel that we’re going to need to take the place of what we could have gotten out of the gulf.” — Pants on Fire! (June 3, 2011)

    Sarah Palin: “Democrats are poised now to cause this largest tax increase in U.S. history.” — Pants on Fire! (August 4, 2010)

    Bill O’Reilly: “Attorney General Eric Holder is involved in the dismissal of the criminal charges” against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation — False (July 23, 2010)

    Sarah Palin: “Barack Obama had 150 days in the U.S. Senate where he was able to vote quite often ‘present.’ ” — False (February 8, 2010)

    Glenn Beck: John Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, “has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population.” — Pants on Fire! (July 29, 2009)

    Glenn Beck: Labor union president Andy Stern is “the most frequent visitor” at the White House. — False (December 7, 2009)

    Glenn Beck: “Why do we have automatic citizenship upon birth? We’re the only country in the world that has it.” — False (June 19, 2009)

    Bill O’Reilly: Says he didn’t call Dr. George Tiller a baby killer, as liberal groups charge, but was merely reporting what “some prolifers branded him.” — False (June 5, 2009)

    Bill O’Reilly: When White House communications director Anita Dunn said that Mao Tse-tung was “one of her favorite philosophers, only Fox News picked that up.” — False (October 27, 2009)

    Bill O’Reilly: “We researched to find out if anybody on Fox News had ever said you’re going to jail if you don’t buy health insurance. Nobody’s ever said it.” — Pants on Fire! (April 27, 2010)

    And….what exactly are you talking about – “pile on ad hominum”?

  136. Roncella says:

    Tuddo, It was Reported today again that Fox News, has proof that Obama and his handlers at the Whitehouse dealing with press releases and who they go to, blacked out Fox News.

    This was common knowledge even among the many far left liberals from all the major cable outlets, they all reported on it and were not happy about The Whtehouse treatment of Fox News.

    Even though many of them were very critical of Fox News they did not like the treatment Fox News was receiving.

    Your blind support for everything Obama and far left, liberal beliefs has affected your good old fashioned common sense and your thinking capabilities.

  137. without permission, moving the FoxNews train wreck discussion over here:

    http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/07/15/the-news-corporation-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-132690

  138. LarryFine says:

    In true fashion, it appears the moderator, yet again, is not interested in any balance and has deleted xx’s thought provoking counter and left the resident liberal/progressive/what ever he calls himself today’s links up.

    Not kooky at all… typical.

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