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CONSERVATIVES: Their hypocrisy is showing

Letter by Paul Schonberger, University Place on July 7, 2011 at 10:49 am with 87 Comments »
July 7, 2011 2:23 pm

All the whining about individual mandates and the “nanny state” shows that my conservative friends have no principles beyond attacking the Obama administration (Wyoming lawmakers Sue Wallis and Lisa Shepperson being the exceptions).

The alleged Small Government Conservatives (SGCs) rail about “personal responsibility and freedom” but  love using government to enforce their social engineering agenda.

Women in charge of their bodies vis-à-vis abortion rights? Sorry, the SGCs mandate waiting periods, forced sonograms and hundreds of government regulations.

Right of a citizen to be free from government spying? Sorry, the SGCs expanded the ability of the National Security Agency to wiretap phone calls without a warrant and sift through emails.

Rights of local governments (Washington, D.C.)? Sorry, the SGCs are looking into efforts to repeal the law allowing gays to marry.

I could respect the opinions of the SGCs (even if I disagree with them), except for one tiny detail: their damned hypocrisy.

Leave a comment Comments → 87
  1. The small Govt right wingers need and want the big Govt to controls others, it’s the very bedrock of the conservative agenda.

  2. PumainTacoma says:

    So what happened to all those Hillary voters who were blue dogs? I guess there is no room for blue dogs in the DEM party so they moved over to the TEA party. Remember Clinton ended the never ending welfare payroll as we knew it.

  3. KARDNOS says:

    If there is a Democrat in the TEA Party, I’ll eat a bug.

    Even the “Can’t Get Over Hillary” crowd should recognize Hillary’s politics versus Dick Armey’s.

    As someone that originally supported Hillary, I’m not disappointed in the outcome and the only thing I would have rather seen was Hillary as Attorney General to go after Bush and Cheney for the Valerie Plame outting.

  4. KARDNOS says:

    There is no such think as a Small Government Conservative. It’s a ploy just like the use of the word “ObamaCare”.

  5. ” so they moved over to the TEA party”

    LOL!! Yeah thats it, thats what happened all right, you betcha!

    Now the questions is, since the teahaddist party is dead, having served it’s purpose, where did they and the rightwing sheep go?

  6. LarryFine says:

    Hey Paul… google ‘obama healthcare madate exemptions’ and get back to us…

  7. “Opting out of the mandate”

    222 employers, insurers, and unions (covering some 1.5 million people) have received a ONE YEAR WAIVER.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/08/big-companies-unions-win-health-care-waivers/

    Thanks for the free lunch but next time I’ll prefer a Sanabal Special.

  8. aislander says:

    I can assure you, KARD, that anyone advocating for bigger government is no conservative. That’s why we are trying to shrink/starve/pare/hack away just about every part of it that has been added since the turn of the last century, and take a very hard look at what remains…

  9. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Xring, while you are googling stuff, look up how many people signed up for the high risk pools which were a large selling point of Obamacare. You remember all those personal stories about some working class person not able to get insurance? Well, only about 18k have signed up so they are giving the rest of the money away. Whole thing is a scam.

    How about we lower the actual cost of healthcare? We never tackled the total cost, just shifted the burden and financing of it all.

  10. beerBoy says:

    anyone advocating for bigger government is no conservative.

    Forget about “advocating”. What one actually does is more important than their (hypocritical) campaign speeches. The Saint of Conservatism, Ronald Reagan expanded government spending by 69%.

    Hmmmm……that sorta supports the central thesis of the letter…..even St. Ronnie was a huge hypocrite.

  11. LarryFine says:

    GAO report found that more than 3 million Americans are benefiting from the more than 1,400 Obamacare waivers granted so far.

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/18/obamacare-waivers-get-axe-in-last-minute-friday-night-news-dump/

  12. LarryFine says:

    Selective enforcement of the law is the first sign of tyranny. A government empowered to determine arbitrarily who may operate outside the rule of law invariably embraces favoritism as friends, allies and those with the best-funded lobbyists are rewarded. Favoritism inevitably leads to corruption, and corruption invites extortion. Ultimately, the rule of law ceases to exist in any recognizable form, and what is left is tyranny.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/20/obamacare-waiver-corruption-must-stop/

  13. Conservatives and liberals agree that government regulations must exist in some areas. Conservatives do not want zero-government but want the government to stick to the things it should do to bolster the society at large. Conservatives support state and federal laws that address crimes against humanity. And, whether any of YOU like it or not, many of them see abortion as a crime and thus invite regulation that protects the unborn.

    Currently, “the state” does not recognize abortion as a crime, but you will always see folks pushing for it to be viewed as such. That will NEVER change, and when they want the government involved, for them it’s no different than wanting laws aimed at the prevention of homicide.

    My point: please stop using the abortion issue as your jumping off place when you argue big vs. small government.

  14. KARDNOS says:

    aislander says:
    July 7, 2011 at 11:07 pm
    I can assure you, KARD, that anyone advocating for bigger government is no conservative. That’s why we are trying to shrink/starve/pare/hack away just about every part of it that has been added since the turn of the last century, and take a very hard look at what remains…”

    I’m so glad you avoided sloganeering on that comment, aislander….LMAO

  15. KARDNOS says:

    sozo says:
    July 8, 2011 at 8:04 am
    Conservatives and liberals agree that government regulations must exist in some areas. Conservatives do not want zero-government but want the government to stick to the things it should do to bolster the society at large. Conservatives support state and federal laws that address crimes against humanity. And, whether any of YOU like it or not, many of them see abortion as a crime and thus invite regulation that protects the unborn.

    Currently, “the state” does not recognize abortion as a crime, but you will always see folks pushing for it to be viewed as such. That will NEVER change, and when they want the government involved, for them it’s no different than wanting laws aimed at the prevention of homicide.

    My point: please stop using the abortion issue as your jumping off place when you argue big vs. small government.

    Please stop your misinformation campaign about abortion being a crime. Now, that being said….states that have claimed they want to lower the cost of doing business, have raised said cost by involking laws to delay/prevent women from having access to abortion via mandatory (I thought you folks didn’t like “mandatory”) testing (someone has to pay for it) that someone has to monitor.

    Unfortunately, sozo, the progressive movement isn’t quite as numb to math and reality as you need us to be to continue to increase government costs and line the pockets of your health care friends, while removing the rights of women.

  16. KARDNOS says:

    LarryFine…..so you actually take the Washington Times seriously????

    Are you possibly a follower of Reverend Moon?

  17. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, Its true President Reagan made some mistakes while President for eight years.

    However as I remember those years the economy moved along with ease. Folks were finding jobs and Companies were expanding, real estate was healthy and home values were rising.

    Those were the good old days for most Americans.

    The awful four years of Carter was behind us all. Now we have Obama who is making the Carter Years seem better than the mess the Country is currently in.

  18. aislander says:

    NOW, I remember. Thanks, KARD…

  19. KARDNOS says:

    Between Reagan’s administration and Bush’s Administration someone got lost along the way to “smaller government”….

    http://www.aier.org/research/briefs/750-big-government-under-the-bush-administration

  20. KARDNOS says:

    “However as I remember those years the economy moved along with ease. Folks were finding jobs and Companies were expanding, real estate was healthy and home values were rising.”

    Better grab the ginkgo, Roncella. There was almost 10% unemployment during the Reagan Administration as well as a recession. I already pointed that out to you on another thread the other day. Why do you continue to make up lies?

    “The early 1980s recession was a severe recession in the United States which began in July 1981 and ended in November 1982.[2][3] The primary cause of the recession was a contractionary monetary policy established by the Federal Reserve System to control high inflation.[4]

    In the wake of the 1973 oil crisis and the 1979 energy crisis, stagflation began to afflict the economy of the United States. Unemployment had risen from 5.1% in January 1974 to a high of 9.0% in May 1975. Although it had gradually declined to 5.6% by May 1979, unemployment began rising again thereafter. It jumped sharply to 6.9% in April 1980 and to 7.5% in May 1980. A mild recession from January to July 1980 kept unemployment high, but despite economic recovery unemployment remained at historically high levels (about 7.5%) through the end of 1981.[5] Unemployment continued to grow through 1982, reaching 10% nationally, and reached a record peak of 25% in Rockford, Illinois.”

    I guess the folks in Rockford don’t remember the “good old days” quite the way you do…..

  21. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, You better turn your T.V. on right away, so you can get some news from MSNBC or CNN. The latest unemployment figures puts unemployment at 9.2%, WOW.

    I just got my lastest evualation for my taxes on my Home, its gone further down in value then its ever been since I purchased it 39 years ago.

    I can only guess that this must be the Change, and Yes we Can, slogans that your hero President Obama read from his many tele-prompters as he campaigned in 08.

  22. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella…..

    Turn your TV off and start using the computer in front of you for a research tool.

    “its gone further down in value then its ever been since I purchased it 39 years ago.”

    That is a complete lie. You didn’t own a house that was worth over $100K 39 years ago.

    If you have such a good case against Obama, why do you have to lie?????

  23. KARDNOS says:

    Unemployment during Reagan’s first term – 9.7%.

    What’s your point, Roncella?

  24. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, President Ronald Reagan knew how to grow the economy. It did not take him too long before most Americans felt good about their Country and themselves once again.

    This Latest un-employment figure of 9.2% is serious because of the terrible economy that goes along with it. This 9.2% does not tell the full unemployment picture out there. Many folks have given up looking and they are not included in the 9.2% figure.

    Kardnos its time the President and the dems. in the Congress get busy and stop with the political dancing around and seriously get to work Now.

    Maybe Obama should postpone his Martha’s Vineyard vacation he is going on in a week or so, Ya Think ?? Another Vatcation, while the nations economy is spinning out of control.

  25. ron – when did you get elected as spokesperson for “most Americans” in the ’80s? What are you basing your statements as to how they felt?

  26. I note that claims of Reagan’s sainthood are most often supported by intangibles like “felt good about America again” rather than tangibles.

  27. I didn’t say abortion was a crime Bean Brain.

  28. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, even someone as liberal/dem as you are, can remember the state of affairs while Reagan was President, with the economy booming and things improving with employment improving and just a general feeling that America was getting back to basics after the Carter mess.

    your right I can’t speak for all Americans during that period but I remember clearly how my neighbors and friends and family were doing, and it was a heck of a better time than Obama has taken the Country in Today. The economy seems to get worse by the day.

  29. SadujTogracse says:

    “It’s a ploy just like the use of the word “ObamaCare”.

    Have you ever noticed how Kard gets up in arms about the term ObamaCare? Obama made it clear that getting health care reform through was his top priority and crown jewel of his administration so far. Isn’t that something you would WANT your name attached to? If it is so great of an accomplishment then why the outrage from the left at “Obamacare”? Seems to me they see the handwriting on the wall and they are wanting to run away as fast as they can from it!

    Nevermind that Hillary and her political team were one of the first people to use Obamacare during the campaign (if not the first). Nevermind that John Conyers (D) loves the term Obamacare and thinks Democrats should be proud of it. Seems Kard has some explaining to do!

  30. “I can assure you, KARD, that anyone advocating for bigger government is no conservative.”

    Then explain why the Govt grows so much and the debt grows so much under conservative control?

  31. “can only guess that this must be the Change, and Yes we Can, slogans that your hero President Obama read from his many tele-prompters as he campaigned in 08.”

    roncella, you do kjnow the housing market crashed under bush the failure and the GOP caused it, don’t you?
    Or are you nieve enough to believe fox news?

  32. “Conservatives support state and federal laws that address crimes against humanity.”

    I’ll be darned, a rightwing extremist that admits the right needs and wants the Govt, big Govt to do nothing but control others. Not the rightists of course, they are perfect, but all others.

    Something I have been saying for years.

  33. “while Reagan was President, with the economy booming and things improving with employment improving and just a general feeling that America was getting back to basics after the Carter mess.”

    Another outright lie!

    The economy didn’t boom under raygun and it wasn’t the Carter mes it was the Nixon mess.

    History and truth roncella, history and truth.

  34. SadujTogracse says:

    xtp855 says:
    July 8, 2011 at 11:12 am

    LMAO! Talk about revisionist history! Of course this is the same person that thinks Iran-contra and the ’79 hostage incident were the same thing!

  35. In a moment of hasty frustration, I called Kardnos a bean brain for reading into what I wrote something I did NOT say. I shouldn’t have done it but I simply could not hold it in.

    Now you, xtp, demonstrate that your brain is also roughly the size of a bean.

    Try slowing down and actually reading for understanding…please, just try.

  36. “Roncella says:
    July 8, 2011 at 10:06 am
    KARDNOS, President Ronald Reagan knew how to grow the economy. It did not take him too long before most Americans felt good about their Country and themselves once again.”

    Now…let’s see if I’ve got it. When Obama talks about Hope and Change it’s “hopey changy” and when Reagan threw out platitudes about “the government is the problem”, that was making Americans feel good about their country.

    Interesting use of the English language never seems to stop spewing from the Right.

  37. TheSad wasn’t alive when Nixon was in office and doesn’t remember the post-war recession and the Nixon Wage Freeze (supposedly Wage and Price Freeze)

    The SADDEST part of The Sad is that….given the opportunity to find the information on the computer sitting right in front of TheSad, does TheSad use it for research as opposed to blathering?

    Sadly, no

  38. Since I cannot find a reliable source to quote Hillary Clinton using the word “Obamacare” I’m going to stipulate that TheSad is making things up again.

    Even “Free Republic” readers aren’t attributing it to Hillary:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2617117/posts

    Mr. Conyers is honorable, but wrong to further the word that is misrepresentative of the truth.

    It’s easy to see why the Republicans don’t want people saying…..

    “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” The low information voters will say “affordable protection??? I’m all for that…..”

  39. “Currently, “the state” does not recognize abortion as a crime, but you will always see folks pushing for it to be viewed as such.” – sozo

    Nope…sozo didn’t say it was a crime. sozo just said that people will always want it to be viewed as such. It would be sort of like me saying that some people want to view sozo as a criminal. Now I didn’t say sozo was a criminal, did I?

    OK, sozo….truth time. Do you want abortion viewed as a crime?

  40. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Yes President Reagan talked about hope and change after the mess he was faced with cleaning up after Carter.

    The difference is Reagan really did fix the economy and get the Country back on its feet once again. Where as Obama reads his tele-prompter lines with ease but not meaning any of it.

    Say what you want about Reagan, he made Americans feel good about their futures and their Country.

    Note to BeerBoy I can’t say for certain how all Americans felt while Reagan was President but my first hand observations of my family and friends and co-workers was very positive about Reagan.

  41. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, This is not my dabate but I have to add my beliefs on Abortion.

    Abortion for convience only is Murder, plain and simple.

    Millions and Millions of innocent babies are Aborted/Murdered every Year for Convience only.

    How many Abortions would be too many for you Kardnos ???

  42. SadujTogracse says:

    Debunk #1…
    “TheSad wasn’t alive when Nixon was in office”

    Let’s see Nixon served from 1969-1974. I was born in 1970, Kard is wrong yet again, but he accuses me of making things up. (Now he won’t believe me and will want my drivers license to prove it)

  43. SadujTogracse says:

    Kard, Carter deepened the economic mess. While Nixon may have got the shovel out, Carter dug the hole. There is actually a parallel between the Carter Presidency and now. You see when we elect a new President we expect things to get BETTER not worse. You can blame Nixon, you can blame Bush, but the rest of America realizes Carter was responsible for the worsening economic conditions (same is true today with Obama).

    But since you say I should use the computer I will (I know how much you love Wiki!)….”Carter’s campaign for re-election in 1980 was one of the most difficult, and least successful, in history. He faced strong challenges from the right (Ronald Reagan), the center (John B. Anderson), and the left (Ted Kennedy). He had to run against his own “stagflation”-ridden economy“.

    Yep, HIS OWN. Time for you to own up Kard.

  44. Roncella says:

    Saduj, I wouldn’t hold my breadth waiting for Kardnos to admit he is wrong about anything.

  45. SadujTogracse says:

    Roncella, Kard is as stubborn as they come. I don’t understand how he won’t admit the truth even though the evidence is overwhelming against his point of view.

  46. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS is one of those narrow minded far left liberals. He won’t ever admit he is wrong no matter how many different ways you prove he is.

    I will admit its fun watching him and a few others turn themselves into pretzels as they make excuse after excuse for all the mistakes Pelosi and Reid and Obama and Biden make almost everyday.

  47. SadujTogracse says:

    LOL, yeah that is pretty fun to watch the pretzel routine… I’ve been seeing it for YEARS now!!!!

  48. aislander says:

    Yeah, I think xring has a backbone like a hagfish. But he IS just as pleasant…

  49. Given that I believe life begins at conception, you will not be surprised that I perceive abortion as the taking of an innocent life. While I fully appreciate the temptation to terminate a pregnancy, and even the “logic” used to suggest a child might be “better off” if the mother chooses abortion…once that life is created, that baby has a right to be protected by the law.

    IT would be nice if the mother exercised her right to choose before sexual intercourse…you know “choose” to abstain from sex if she doesn’t want to wake up pregnant. As for rape and incest cases, torturous as it might be to carry a child to full term under those circumstances, it is NOT the child’s fault that he/she was conceived in such a way.

    I realize that at the present time, this is NOT the law, but there will always be those who see terminating a baby’s life as criminal. Get used to it, and as I requested before, try to refrain from using this as a lame example of hypocrisy among conservatives.

  50. LarryFine says:

    hey Kard… don’t bother responding to me, I rarely read your posts so you’re talking to the wall with all your … wall paper posts.

  51. Roncella,
    One reason people were finding jobs during the Reagan Years was that American Companies were still hiring Americans and not send jobs overseas.

    Unemployment was 9.2% in 1982, and averaged 7.2% from 1980 thru 1988 (AKA the Reagan Years).

    S_T,
    Reagan ‘freed’ the 1979 Iran Hostages by agreeing to deliver military equipment and spare parts to Iran – justified by saying the items had been paid for by the Shaw’s government.

    In 1981, Reagan, thru the CIA, backed and supported Rebels (the Contras) fighting the Sandinista Government of Nicaragua.

    In 1983, Congress prohibited federal funding of the Contra, but Regan continued to support the Contras in part by covertly selling arms to Iran – then engaged in a war with Iraq.

    When the scheme was revealed it became known as the Iran-Contra Affair or simply Iran-Contra.

  52. SadujTogracse says:

    “Reagan ‘freed’ the 1979 Iran Hostages by agreeing to deliver military equipment…blah blah”

    Hmmm so he did that all in 1 minute? Because they were released one minute after he was sworn in. Or was Carter in on this conspiracy too? The Nicaraguan Contras HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ’79 HOSTAGES. One more time, I’ll type slower. The first incident of the US providing arms to Iran in the Iran-Contra affair didn’t occur until 1985. It’s all out there xtp, look it up. You can keep living in your conspiracy world, too bad facts fly right in your face. I gleefully await your next post that Elvis is still alive and we never landed on the moon. Loosen the tin cap a little, k?

  53. SadujTogracse says:

    “When the scheme was revealed it became known as the Iran-Contra Affair or simply Iran-Contra.”

    Yes, the scheme that started in 1985. Which is 4 years AFTER the ’79 hostages were released. The ’79 incident had NOTHING to do with the Contras, nothing. So stop embarrassing yourself.

  54. Roncella says:

    There are two very good comment by President Ronald Reagan,

    The first one goes like this, ” Well, one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to be against Americans “.

    The second one is ” When you can’t make them see the light, make them feel the heat “.

    President Reagans remarks are right on……………

  55. beerBoy says:

    So…..Iran/Contra was OK??????? Selling arms to Iran (who 2 years earlier had kidnapped and held hostage Americans), covertly (and unConstitutionally) backing a foreign nation’s rebels, funding it by selling massive amounts of cocaine in American cities…….yep….it is alright by you because??????

    Regarding the October Surprise:
    After twelve years of mixed media attention, both houses of the US Congress held separate inquiries and concluded that the allegations lacked supporting documentation.

    Nevertheless, several individuals—most notably former Iranian President Abolhassan Bani-Sadr, former Naval intelligence officer and National Security Council member Gary Sick; and former Reagan/Bush campaign and White House staffer Barbara Honegger—have stood by the allegation.

    So…you are convinced it didn’t happen because it “lacked supporting documentation”….. Good ol’ Ronnie and Plausible Deniability.

  56. aislander says:

    GOOD ole beerBoy: always ready to believe the worst about his own country and Israel (even if the only “proof” to be found is in the fever swamps of lefty websites…), and the best about those sworn to our destruction…

  57. S_T
    Get a book and have someone read it to you.

    The deal was struck prior to the election.

    At least that’s what Oliver North and others have said.

  58. aislander says:

    Cite the Oliver North admission, xring. My understanding is the Dems THOUGHT he was going to throw the Reagan admin under the bus, but he disappointed them profoundly…

  59. beerBoy says:

    aislander – explain, then, how providing arms to Iran and flooding the inner-city with cocaine was good for our country or Israel (since you are more concerned about Israel’s well-being than our own).

    brtw – what does Israel have to do with this thread?

  60. beerBoy says:

    And….while you are at it…..explain how a President defying the Constitution by defying Congress is good for either the US or Israel.

  61. aislander says:

    That cocaine thing is right out of the fever swamps and Louis Farrakhan (or however he spells his pseudo-Arabic handle)…

  62. aislander says:

    So…has the War Powers Act EVER been tested for its constitutionality?

  63. aislander – The story was broken by Gary Webb of the San Jose Mercury News. While it was covered up at the time (and sadly, Webb committed suicide after the intense negative repercussions he faced), it has sense been completely validated by declassified documents obtained by the National Security Archive, including the notebooks kept by NSC aide and Iran-contra figure Oliver North, electronic mail messages written by high-ranking Reagan administration officials, memos detailing the contra war effort, and FBI and DEA reports. The documents demonstrate official knowledge of drug operations, and collaboration with and protection of known drug traffickers. Court and hearing transcripts are also included.

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

    Again – evidence that you won’t admit the truth when it doesn’t fit your ideology.

  64. “since” not “sense”.

  65. Explain how, and why, you brought Louis Farrakhan into this discussion.

    Kinda seems like – if you don’t have a thread of logic – throw out antisemitism or Black Muslims into the mix and hope that the person telling the truth is so busy defending himself that your b.s. goes by unnoticed.

  66. “The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan addresses the US Governments involvement with the Crack Cocaine drug trade in Amerikkka and its intent on destroying black people in this country…”

    from a couple of videos on YouTube… it was well know at the time Farrakhan’s position and false belief at the time…

    odd considering his site also did a review of the Webb book… a positive one of course…

    keep a salt shaker handy if you choose to watch the videos…

  67. SadujTogracse says:

    xring, there was no deal involving arms to Iran and the CONTRAS in Jan. of 81. Only the deal in your inside your tinfoil hat. Oliver North never stated that the 79 hostages had ANYTHING to do with the Contra affair that started in ’85.

    You see I actually read the books with words in them and not the pop-up ones as you are used to.

  68. SadujTogracse says:

    aislander, xring can cite no such quote because none exists. Everyone knows 1985 is when the Contra affair started, not 1981. Heck the Boland Amendment didn’t even get voted in until 1982!!!! (now the left scatters to look up what th Boland Amendment was)

  69. Saduj – so….because Farrakhan seized on Webb’s story that discredits the PROOF that it was accurate?

  70. And when did you become aislander’s water carrier?

  71. “Saduj – so….because Farrakhan seized on Webb’s story that discredits the PROOF that it was accurate?”

    bb – as far as I can tell sadju never made any reference to Farrakhan.

    Farrakhan was very vocal about the alleged crack / inner city dealing stuff. He even considered suing the US Government for it.

    “Black Muslim” has nothing to do with it… it was about Farrakhan… I believe you made reference to “crack” in your 5:27 post.

  72. speaking of hypocrisy…

    bb – I hope you show the same disdain for Obama and Holder as you do for Reagan and his minions…

    Obama/Holder has actually allowed the sale of guns that made their way to drug dealers in Mexico. Those weapons are involved in the murder of at least two Border agents.

    If we are going to show disdain for AmeriKKKa then at least be consistent about it.

  73. SadujTogracse says:

    beerboy, try to follow along please. xx98411 is correct, I never made any reference to Farrakhan. My only point for the last few days is that the ’79 Iranian hostage incident was not, nor related to, the Iran-Contra affair that started in the mid ’80’s.

  74. Keep listening to and believing all the right wing doggerel and worshiping St. Ronnie of Teflon.

  75. aislander says:

    I meant to write: “Has the Boland Amendment ever been tested for its constitutionality?” But the same thing goes for the War Powers Act…

  76. aislander says:

    I brought up Farrakhan because he was front and center in accusing the US of cocaine smuggling. Nice company you keep, beerBoy!

  77. Complete b.s. guilt by association straight from Joseph McCarthy – nice company you keep aislander.

  78. My apology Saduj – it was xx who has chosen to carry aislander’s water on this.

  79. From the responses I have read from aislander and saduj…, they don’t need my help (and I dont need theirs)

    A simple reading of the threads it is pretty clear they do a pretty effective job of debate.

  80. aislander – your attempt to tie my acknowledgment of historical FACT with a figure who has used this FACT for his own INTERPRETATION and conspiracy theories is a common tactic of ideologues who are unwilling to deal with FACT when it is uncomfortable.

    Your ideology cannot withstand FACT.

  81. LarryFine says:

    You are one funny hypocrite beerBoy. You make may day. ;)

  82. bb – you can add LarryFine to that list too…

  83. I will try again:

    Iran/Contra costs:
    1) Supply Iran with weapons
    2) At best “skirt” the Constitutional provisions regarding separation of powers
    3) Flood the inner cities in the US with Cocaine.

    Iran/Contra benefits:
    1) Support the Contras’ war against the Sandinistas

    I am assuming (because I don’t really pay attention to what Farrakhan writes/says) that he has utilized point number 3 above to support his conspiracy theory regarding America’s ongoing attempts to attack the black race. I do not ascribe to that theory and it is the sign of a weak argument and a willingness to sleaze for anyone to suggest that – because I know FACTS about our history – I am in the same company as Farrakhan.

    FACT is: Reagan should have been impeached for Iran/Contra because the costs far outweighed the benefits and……it was illegal.

  84. LarryFine says:

    … good, so you are calling for the same with Obarry concerning his illegal war with Libya….

  85. LarryFine says:

    =humming theme from jeopordy=

  86. aislander says:

    LarryFine: You mistyped when you told beerBoy “you make may day.” It SHOULD have read “you make May Day.” Appropriate, what? But, if you did that purposely, well: Mes compliments au maistre!

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