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POLITICS: When is it too soon to fight back?

Letter by Dave Boroughs, Vancouver on June 30, 2011 at 5:00 pm with 177 Comments »
June 30, 2011 5:00 pm

On Tuesday, the day after Jay Inslee announced his candidacy for governor, columnist Peter Callaghan declared that it is too soon for candidates to start their campaigns. He did not write that opinion weeks ago when Rob McKenna declared his candidacy.

When is it too soon to stand up to the divisive rhetoric of the tea party? When is it too soon to put a stop to the job-killing economics of the right-wing agenda? When is it too soon to challenge those who would attack public education rather than address the root problem of poverty?

Attorney General Rob McKenna opted to appeal a Superior Court ruling affirming that the state is not meeting its constitutional obligation to the students of Washington. He will likely lose that appeal. The bully pulpit of the governorship is only one election away.

We have all seen the ugly ramifications of Gov. Walker’s attacks on education and workers rights in Wisconsin. When is it too soon to challenge head-on the forces that will divide us, instead to step forward toward the job creation we need?

Leave a comment Comments → 177
  1. concernedtacoma7 says:

    “divisive rhetoric of the tea party” HA!

    This author has obviously not turned on the TV, listened to the radio, or read one word coming out of BHO or Pelosi’s mouth in the 3 years.

    As to WI-

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/124727554.html

    And your letter puts forth no ideas, just typical whining from the left.

  2. the3rdpigshouse says:

    concernedtacoma7 – O.K. – you have been asleep for about 2 years and missed the fact that the socialist demorats have been running the U.S. and unemployment continues to get worse every day!! Wake up and quit inhaling that stuff!

  3. aislander says:

    We need a governor and legislature that will do what has been done in Wisconsin, Indiana, and elsewhere. As for the sentiment that it is “too soon” for Inslee to announce: never would be to soon for the candidacy of another Democrat for ANYTHING. We need two parties that actually LIKE America…

  4. “June 30, 2011 at 7:04 pm
    We need a governor and legislature that will do what has been done in Wisconsin, Indiana, and elsewhere

    Yeah…then Washington can have recall elections and the GOP governor can think he’s on the phone with David Koch…..

  5. I was sort of enjoying 3rd Pig giving “Concerned” a piece of his alleged mind…
    :)

  6. steilacoomtaxpayer says:

    McKenna will help WA get to the point WI is at–unions on the run! It’s never too soon to get Chris and her would be subs outta here. Let’s all do see what Rep. Inslee has for issues not yet on the table. We will all be aghast!

  7. LarryFine says:

    I heard the cost savings in Wisconsin, from worker contributions to health care and retirement, will help the Kaukauna School District out of a $400,000 budget deficit and into an estimated $1.5 million surplus…. The district… plans to hire teachers… and reduce class size.

    Kooky.

  8. Awesome…sounds like we need to follow Wisconsins lead!

  9. For all you Koch sniffing fools who are dancing and sing the praising to Scott Walker here are a few facts.

    The living wage in Outagime County (where the Kaukauna SD is located):
    For a family of 2 adults + 2 kids is $60,000 per year.

    The new average wage for a KSD teacher is $43,150 per year. (down 7% from the old $46,390).

    So how many of you would be able to afford the same drop in pay.

    More importantly where is KSD going to find qualified teaches at the new wage.

    Read more at:
    http://www.nonsportsman.com/2011/06/inside-kaukauna-school-district

  10. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry- you heard or maybe clicked on my link?

    Pig- WTF? Kard called you out correctly, now I really have an issue with you for admitting K is right about anything.

    Xtp- so in a family with 2 adults, one of them only has to earn $14k a year? Sounds fair to me. That is min wage. System works. You can admit you are wrong at any time.

  11. “I heard the cost savings in Wisconsin, from worker contributions to health care and retirement..,”

    I’ve also heard also that projected savings aren’t actual savings, and that much of the projected savings would be because experienced teachers are quitting or retiring, to be replaced (if replacements are found) by the inexperienced. And what would you bet that, rather than returning the projected savings to the taxpayer, it gets spent on new sports gear, tennis courts, a track field and administration.

    All middle-class workers in this country, not only the Kaukana school district teachers with their $47,000 average yearly salaries, need to get off their high horses and accept the same 8% pay reduction as those teachers. The money saved could be used to pay for the cost of recent wars, to replace the bail out money, repair the damage to the Gulf, to give additional tax breaks to the rich, and to pay wall street bonuses.

    Anyway, cool to see Republicans high-fiving one another for each additional blow to the middle-class.

  12. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Nice to prove any one of your points. You just threw some more rhetoric into the debate, no substance.

    Your gulf comment is my favorite. Billions spent, a country scared for months, and the huge disaster ending life as we know it never came.

    The last wars were started by BHO, the great speaker an community organizer.

    You are defeated. Go to bed and TDY again tomorrow, with some facts to back up your rhetoric.

  13. concernedtacoma7 says:

    google “where did the oil go” and click on a link from this year.

    The left is trying to scare grandma into voting for a failed president with failed policies. BHO has the balls to speak of leadership yet spent only 3 hours working on the budget compromise. Not counting his golf games.

    Voting for the “cool” guy failed, and even the college kids see it. I look forward to the day that a BHO sticker on a prius is a badge of shame.

    I look forward to the day when waving the flag and saying the pledge mean something to America’s children, not some leftover rebellion from the 70s but a symbol of dedication and community.

  14. Roncella says:

    Its time to clean out the big spenders in Olympia and Washington D.C.. The hope and change, and yes we can, hoopla has fallen flat on most American tax payers.

    We have a President who is more concerned with his own re-election than working on all the problems many which he is responsible for. When he is not flying around the Country campaigning, he is golfing or playing basketball, or having a party at the Whitehouse.

    In a few weeks Obama announced he will be going on another vacation to Martha’s Vineyard. While the Country is reeling from the budget crises, high un-empoyment and all the rest.

    Obama has gone from Community Organizor to Professional Traveler and vacation President.

  15. We could do Wisconsin one better. Why not cut to the chase. Instead of just outlawing collective bargaining and lower wages little by little, we could outlaw pay and benefits altogether. People could work simply for the betterment of our state. The state could decide who does what job and which job needs to be done. The state would provide them with what they need, in exchange. The state could be out of debt in no time.

  16. commoncents says:

    few things…First, the union had offered up the same level of savings so if it’s strictly financial then this wasn’t necessary. Second, the district laid off 14 staff members as part of these savings so the savings weren’t totally due to the increased contributions. Additionally, Milwaukee Public School district is laying off 350 teachers so obviously the law didn’t benefit all districts – perhaps just the select few whose teaching demographics were in perfect alignment.. And most importantly…shouldn’t we wait to see if there is any improvement in student performance before victory is declared and the same model is adopted here? Heck – we don’t even need improvement, just maintain the status quo.

  17. tree_guy says:

    I appreciate that Polago is now offering some bold approaches to our national problem.

    Hows this one strike your? We keep all the government jobs at their current pay and benefits level. Then once a year we have a lottery to fill them. The jobs which only require a HS education can be distributed to lucky winners who hold HS degrees, and so forth. Many of these highly paid jobs only require a few days on the job training.

    These government jobs don’t belong to job holders, they belong to the TAXPAYERS and I for one would like to see them distributed in such a way that everyone got a chance to work for the government for a while during their adult lives.

  18. tree_guy says:

    “Anyway, cool to see Republicans high-fiving one another for each additional blow to the middle-class.” cirrus

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1QrlCZtjz

    You’re misrepresenting the goals of the Republican Party. Republicans want everyone to succeed. They want to establish a civic landscape where more people with ambition will start companies and establish new employment demands. One way to encourage ambitious people to do something is to let them keep a little of the money they earn. The Democrats want everyone to behave like a herd of cattle, monotonous, sloth-like, and ultimately headed for the slaughterhouse. Wake up Washington! Jay Inslee cannot lead you into the promised land.

  19. harleyrider1 says:

    It doesn’t really matter who is in charge of “whoville”. Chris loved it and the dead people did too since they decided the last election.

    That said, the legislature makes the new laws and controls spending and funding. Ask yourself who has been in charge of our legislature for the past umpteen-years.
    That’s the party that never saved a dime and spent, spent, spent.

    Time for a change? It’s time to run the state like a business. You meet your obligations. You don’t spend anymore than you take in AND here’s a new one for people in this state: Set aside funds each year that cannot be touched unless their is an economic crisis. It’s called a savings account.

  20. Roncella says:

    Jay Inslee, Is exactly the Male version of Gregoire. She has hand picked him to be her replacement.

    Its time for a change in Olympia. If Inslee/Gregoire win in 2012, we are all in Big Trouble.

  21. x, cirrus? C’mon you gotta have a response. Maybe the spouse shouldn’t be expected to be able to carry a minimum wage job? Maybe that teacher shouldn’t have a summer job? Maybe, Maybe? The new wage in fact equates to 31.94 pretending that a teacher puts in a full 180 day at a full 8 hours per year. That is not a bad wage at all. It’s very reasonable, and a 7 or 8 percent reduction in pay is a very reasonable response to a budgetary crisis.

    But for the truth on the school district in question…http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/wisconsin/teacher-salary-in-kaukauna-area-school-district/
    Per capita income: $20,322
    Median family income: $53,051
    Median male income: $34,367
    Median female income: $16,888
    Median income of a renter: $28,571
    Median income of a home owner: $53,857

    As you can see, the teachers are still VERY well compensated in this school district that Cirrus attempts to pretend are being underpaid. Again, lets follow Wisconsins lead-a 7 percent actual reduction for State Workers/Teachers etc, sounds like a fine start to digging our way out of our fiscal mess.

  22. tree_guy says:

    Gregoire and Inslee are strange bedfellows. In his gubernatorial announcement he was highly criitical of Washington State Government, “Olympia” and yet he had previously been recommended for the office by the architect of our State’s failure, Governor Chris Gregoire.

    Why should the voters take a chance on Inslee? He’s obviously just a glib, big spending pretty boy.

  23. The GOP only cares about the rich and big buisnesses.

    Want real cuts – go after susideids, tax breaks, and other welfare for the rich and the corporations.

    Vote for the Rpots and watch us slide into the late great USA.

  24. tree_guy says:

    go after susideids, tax breaks, and other welfare for the rich and the corporations. xring

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1QrxqFags

    The democrats just decided that the “tax breaks” in the state tax code were appropriate. Do you ever read the newspaper? Also regarding the treatment of rich Americans and Corporations, have you ever bothered to look at the people that your fearless community organizer, Mr. Obama, has appointed to the Treasury and Federal Reserve Board? They’re all Wall Street tycoons. So much for reform. You must be so proud of him xring.

  25. LarryFine says:

    “we could outlaw pay and benefits altogether. People could work simply for the betterment of our state” …. leave it to a leftist to pull out the absurd extreme strawman… kooky.

    Isn’t that the goal of the leftists ? Not just people, but especially companies/corporations ? Leftists bemoan profit as if it’s something evil. They act as tho companies should exist for the exclusive purpose of breaking even. It’s weird.

  26. LarryFine says:

    “They’re all Wall Street tycoons” … and tax cheats.

  27. LarryFine says:

    Inslee’s lisp is just as annoying as Obama’s sibilent s’s…

  28. I see the right is doing what they always do, lie.
    They offer nothing but wild rhetoric and total BS lies and of course the standard childish insults.

    To answer the question, it’s never too soon to put a stop to the radical right and their dangerous agenda. The nation depends on it.
    And as they are finding out in the upper mid west, the people will not stand for the over reaching the right wing koch snorters are doing.
    The recalls will cost plenty but it will be money well spent. The repeals of the exteme right wing elitist laws will take time but they will be repealed.
    So, the best defence against the radical right is a good offence.

  29. tree_guy says:

    people will not stand for the over reaching the right wing koch snorters are doing.xring

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1Qs6rjhY4

    The Koch brothers have succeeded at achieving the American dream through incredible determination and academic superiority. Why don’t some liberals ever try setting up a company and use their utopian management theories to better our country? If your theories are correct, then you will become hugely successful. Oh, I forgot, that would take time away from their incessant display of class envy and would require some actual effort. Better to recommend that American’s adopt a parasitic lifestyle. The world xring dreams about is a world where everyone is equally miserable.

  30. How does my comment differ from the Right wing’s view of public employee management, Larry?

  31. SadujTogracse says:

    You can “fight back” as soon as you want to Dave, in fact all sorts of people already have been attacking McKenna. From lasik surgery to the lawsuit against Obamacare, they are already in a frenzy.

    Just shows how scared they are of McKenna winning in 2012!

  32. “The Koch brothers have succeeded at achieving the American dream through incredible determination and academic superiority.”

    Yeah..it’s called “inheritance”

  33. “Just shows how scared they are of McKenna winning in 2012!”

    And when the Right made up Muslim and Kenyan stories about Obama was that out of fear?

  34. Now HERE is a comment that doesn’t show fear….

    “He’s obviously just a glib, big spending pretty boy.”

    Lots of fish in the barrel today.

  35. SadujTogracse says:

    You mean were conservatives scared of Obama winning an election through charm and personality with an empty message of “hope”? We were scared that this man with little experience and a whacked out policy agenda could get in office and send our economy even further downhill?

    Yep, turns out our fears were justified.

  36. So…..you lied about him…..

    Just what we expect.

    Thus we can be assured that anything you say about him is a lie.

    The man with “little experience” and a “whacked out” policy agenda (relative and hyperbolic) didn’t created the economic problems and is certainly NOT the ONE PERSON responsible for solving them.

    I wonder what the GOP Senators will do with their time off?

  37. “These government jobs don’t belong to job holders, they belong to the TAXPAYERS”

    And a building a landlord leases belongs to the person leasing it?????

  38. Why it’s important to know the people behind the money….David Koch:

    “Koch was the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in the 1980 presidential election, sharing the party ticket with presidential candidate Ed Clark. The Clark–Koch ticket promised to abolish Social Security, the Federal Reserve Board, welfare, minimum-wage laws, corporate taxes, all price supports and subsidies for agriculture and business, and U.S. Federal agencies including the SEC, EPA, ICC, FTC, OSHA, FBI, CIA, and DOE.[2][12] The ticket proposed legalization of prostitution, recreational drugs, and suicide.”

  39. SadujTogracse says:

    Sorry Kard, he knew that he got elected because of the poor state of the economy. For any normal person that would have been their #1 agenda once they took office and they would have focused like a laser beam to get it moving in the right direction. What did Obama do? A lot of other things OTHER than the economy so we end up with higher unemployment and higher debt than we had on 1/20/2008. You can keep making excuses for him, but everyone else realizes HE OWNS IT.

  40. tree_guy says:

    Kardnos, your own son had advantages growning up that lots of other children didn’t have. So did the Koch Brothers. You contantly brag about your wonderful son and his accomplishments, yet when it comes to the Koch brothers you can’t find it in your heart to applaud their accomplishments. What’s so different ? Does diminishing what others have done make your own success more notable?

  41. “SadujTogracse says:
    July 1, 2011 at 11:04 am
    Sorry Kard, he knew that he got elected because of the poor state of the economy.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…..as if Moose and Old Man had him beat in September 2008?????????????

  42. “tree_guy says:
    July 1, 2011 at 11:16 am
    Kardnos, your own son had advantages growning up that lots of other children didn’t have. So did the Koch Brothers. You contantly brag about your wonderful son and his accomplishments, yet when it comes to the Koch brothers you can’t find it in your heart to applaud their accomplishments. What’s so different ? Does diminishing what others have done make your own success more notable?

    If noting that my son is a principal is “constantly bragging”……the difference is….

    About $400 million in inheritance and an oil company.

    Spot my son that advantage and then let’s try the comparison again….

  43. If TheSad is foolish enough to think that the GOP has not done its best between filibusters in the Senate and NOTHING in the House since 2010…who am I to try to change its mind? LMAO

  44. Tree…..better yet….spot ME that $400 million and the Kochs can keep the rest.

  45. You have to love when the Conservatives ignore the silver spoon stuck in the mouth of those that seek to control the country.

  46. tree_guy says:

    Kardos, you admit you helped your son achieve his success. How much did you invest?

    Spot some poor people from dysfunction households that investment and then lets try the comparison again.

    When liberals help their own children achieve greatness that’s a good thing.
    When conservatives help their own children achieve greatness that’s a bad thing.

    Kardnos, your message is as plain as day…criticize other people who do exactly the same thing as you.

  47. SadujTogracse says:

    tree_guy, you make an excellent point in exposing more of the hypocrisy from the far left.

  48. Wow, defending the koch bros is the same as defending facism.

    Since when is inherating a fortune the same as earning it?
    And any evil Democrat that does in fact have billions, is smeared 24/7 by the right, the poor little koch bros have it easy compared to Soros.

  49. tree_guy says:

    A really poor family might look at the Kardnos family in much the same way that Karnos looks at the Kochs. It’s all relative. I see no difference in principle. A poor unemployed single mother struggling to pay her property taxes so that Kardnos son can enjoy a pretty luxious life as a HS principal is unlikely to find much sympathy for Kardnos. To her the Kardnos’ and the Kochs are indistinguishable.

    If you don’t see the inconsistancy in your position Kardnos maybe your son could diagram it for you.

  50. Tree….I understand you are a little sensitive about….

    “KARDNOS says:
    July 1, 2011 at 10:57 am
    “These government jobs don’t belong to job holders, they belong to the TAXPAYERS”

    And a building a landlord leases belongs to the person leasing it?????”

    But you are reaching beyond stupid into an entirely new category when you try to stipulate that the fortunate son element in society is no different than comparing middle class to those in poverty…..

    Keep it up, though. You are quite entertaining in a ridiculous sort of way….

  51. xtp….but…but….Soros wasn’t “born inna USA…..”

  52. “tree_guy says:
    July 1, 2011 at 11:59 am
    A really poor family might look at the Kardnos family in much the same way that Karnos looks at the Kochs.”

    A “really poor” family is too ignorant to know the difference between a family that lives down the street and is purchasing their home, versus a family that was handed $400 million.

    Now THERE is the problem with the Conservatives today….LOL

    Since I’ve worked with many people in poverty, I can tell you they know the difference. The middle class families are there trying to help the poverty stricken, while the wealthy throw a little money and a press release at the problem.

    Tree…..I just read that Paris Hilton “might be” pregnant and “isn’t sure” how she feels about it.

    If a middle class family’s daughter “might be” pregnant, it’s not news and she’s not in a press conference talking about it.

    THERE is the difference, if you can’t figure it out…..LOLOLOL

  53. tree_guy says:

    A building owner owns the building, not the person renting it. And the taxpayers own the government jobs, not the workers. If I don’t like my tenant or wish to give other people a chance at renting my property that’s my decision. And the taxpayers own the government jobs. There’s no moral reason why a government worker should get a job for life. These jobs should be distributed to all the people who are qualified and want work in an equitable fashion. I thought you were in favor of equitable solutions to social problems? Didn’t you just argue in favor of taxing inheritances in order to distribute wealth?

    Your problem Kardnos is that you can neither maintain a consistant position nor can you even recognize inconsistancy. But you are amusing in the way your postings ooze with class envy.

  54. tree_guy says:

    Paris Hilton is pregnant and that somehow validates your POV?

    Your postings are becoming sillier and more obscure by the minute.

  55. SadujTogracse says:

    Very silly indeed. Almost as silly as continually attacking the Palin daughters.

  56. KARDNOS says:

    “tree_guy says:
    July 1, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    A building owner owns the building, not the person renting it. And the taxpayers own the government jobs, not the workers.”

    And, of course, the government workers are not taxpayers in your mind…..LOL

  57. KARDNOS says:

    How can someone take this –

    “Tree…..I just read that Paris Hilton “might be” pregnant and “isn’t sure” how she feels about it.

    If a middle class family’s daughter “might be” pregnant, it’s not news and she’s not in a press conference talking about it.”
    And turn it into this –

    “tree_guy says:
    July 1, 2011 at 1:23 pm
    Paris Hilton is pregnant and that somehow validates your POV?”

    First of all…..only read less than half of the statement…….LMAO

  58. KARDNOS says:

    Attacking the Palin daughters…..

    First of all….the only one I ever mention is the one that wants all the attention, so she says ridiculous things like this…..

    (CBS) – Bristol Palin says she finds Michele Bachmann’s style a little too reminiscent to another female political figure: Her mom.

    While promoting her book, “Not Afraid of Life: My Journey So Far,” the 20-year-old accused Bachmann, who on Monday announced her bid again for the GOP nomination for president, for ripping off her mom’s look.

    I’m always thankful that we have a 20 year old to share her life experience with us……LOL

  59. Good to see the Rpots are still flipping and a flopping.

    First, you accuse Obama on not knowing how to run a business and when he appoints someone who does, you brand them ‘wall street tycoons and tax cheats’.

    When W. appointed people from Wall Street, the Rpots cheered them as good loyal Americans.

    The Koch bothers succeeded by inheriting a large fortune.

    Tree-guy wants a society were only 98% of us are miserable surfs and slaves to the God elect wealthy.

    S_T,
    Better get you own eyes checked, The Federal Appeals Court just ruled Obamacare constitutional.

    And what have the Rpots done to help the economy?

    T_G,
    Koch Brother GOOOOOOD, Soros BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

  60. LarryFine says:

    I’m still left wondering when is it too soon to name a school after a president… or award the Nobel Peace Prize… or claim aaallll the world will love us again???

  61. Roncella says:

    George Soros is a cancer on America. He buys totally or controls major new media outlets and far left organizations.

    HIs far left Progressive dreams for America and Americans will never happen. Americans have tough independent minds of their own.

    The only folks he has been successful in fooling are some dems. and most liberals.

  62. The koch bros are a cancer on America. They buy totally or controls State houses and congressmen, media outlets and far right organizations.

    Their far right fasist dreams for America and Americans will never happen. Americans have tough independent minds of their own.

    The only folks they have been successful in fooling are some rightwingers that can’t think. and they own the teahaddits, sine they them selves invented the movement to further their facist agenda.

  63. LarryFine says:

    … make that 2.

  64. tree_guy says:

    Tree-guy wants a society were only 98% of us are miserable surfs and slaves to the God elect wealthy.” xring

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1QtNMORZE

    I’ve never posted that comment nor do I ascribe to it. I’ve posted on many occasions that I want everyone to achieve and to work towards this achievement. If I’ve stated this is my position then please don’t misquote me.
    I don’t believe that our society needs to insure that everyone has the same amount of money. You get 13 years of free schooling and we provide many hundreds of social services to try to catch the people who can’t seem to get their act together. I’ll put that shopping bag of services in contrast to any country the size of the US. I think you’ll find we are a generous people. But there’s always some lazy scammer for whom their just isn’t enough government help out there.

  65. SadujTogracse says:

    “Better get you own eyes checked, The Federal Appeals Court just ruled Obamacare constitutional”

    Eyes checked???? I think you need that xring. All I said about Obamacare was that McKenna joined the suit. Besides all these Federal rulings mean nothing, get back to me when the Supreme Court finally rules on it.

  66. tree_guy says:

    ” teahaddits” xring

    that term is out of style but everytime I read it I know the posting is from the groovy mind of that out-of-sight dude Xring! Can’t wait for your next posting with your description of a tea bag hat.

  67. SadujTogracse says:

    “I’m always thankful that we have a 20 year old to share her life experience with us……LOL ”

    And at 20 she exhibits more maturity and wisdom than yourself.

  68. Roncella says:

    xtp855, I admire your phasing and commenting in your 2:39 post. Somehow it has a familar ring to it, almost like I’ve heard it before.

    FYI, big difference in the Kock Brothers and George Soros.

    The Kock Brothers love America, Americans and want the best for America.

    Hour hero George Soros wants to wreck America anyway he can. He wants to re-do America into a totally socialistic/progressive form of government, and destroy our highly successful standard of liviing.

  69. LarryFine says:

    I think kardnos uses “teahaddist” too.

  70. KARDNOS says:

    TheSad……

    you left out “neener, neener”……

    You were much more creative under your other names…..

  71. tree_guy says:

    “The koch bros are a cancer on America” xtring

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1QtQkqSfB

    Well they employ over 50,000 Americans. How many people do you provide a paycheck for mr. Xring?

  72. KARDNOS says:

    LarryFine….don’t you have a file on “KardnosKomments”?

  73. KARDNOS says:

    I’m really feeling left out…..

  74. KARDNOS says:

    “Well they employ over 50,000 Americans. How many people do you provide a paycheck for mr. Xring?”

    “Provide a paycheck? Funny…I thought employee peformed WORK to get paid.

    The Conservative Mind shows itself again…..

  75. KARDNOS says:

    “Koch was the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in the 1980 presidential election, sharing the party ticket with presidential candidate Ed Clark. The Clark–Koch ticket promised to abolish Social Security, the Federal Reserve Board, welfare, minimum-wage laws, corporate taxes, all price supports and subsidies for agriculture and business, and U.S. Federal agencies including the SEC, EPA, ICC, FTC, OSHA, FBI, CIA, and DOE. The ticket proposed legalization of prostitution, recreational drugs, and suicide.”

    Sounds kinda cancerous to me…..

  76. tree_guy says:

    “Provide a paycheck? Funny…I thought employee peformed WORK to get paid

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1QtSPAni8

    Thanks for pointing out a distinction without a difference. I was sort of wondering when you would resort to a completely banal observation. LOL

  77. KARDNOS says:

    Isn’t it facinating that the government (owned by the people, including the employees) doesn’t “provide jobs” (see Michael Steele, former Entertainment Director for the GOP) even though they provide a service …..but….

    Koch “provides paychecks” for employees.

    There is the mindset that challenges our country from growing…..

  78. KARDNOS says:

    “distinction without a difference”

    There is it again……LOL….like I said…a mindset.

    Would Koch “provide paychecks” and get nothing in return???????

    Tree would make a great quarterback for a football team. According to him the other 10 aren’t required because of his magnificent mind.

  79. KARDNOS says:

    Let me guess…Tree thinks that rich people provide jobs just because they can.

  80. tree_guy says:

    As a matter of fact many jobs are created by rich people. Are you familiar with a lot of poor people who are hiring right now?

    And yes the employers own the jobs. The government owns the government jobs and the private employers own the private sector jobs. You say that the government employees own their jobs because they “are taxpayers.”

    Interesting, that means if the guy who works at 7-11 buys a slurpee that he owns the Southland Corporation.

  81. Roncella says:

    President Obama wants to increase taxes on all the folks making 200 thousand and above. He will destroy , more small businesses in the process, along with the additional requirements his Obamacare is putting on small businesses.

    Does Obama want to increase jobs and stop the un-employment figure from growing or is he really in a cloud when it comes to fixing the economy ??

    Its hard to figure him out. He sounds like he understands the problems while he reads from his many tele-prompters, however when he gets away from the tele-prompters its aw, aw, aw, aa,aa, and let me be clear about this or that.

  82. not aware of many rich people or business hiring right now either.

  83. tree_guy says:

    If rich people already have enough employees to create the revenue they deem acceptable in today’s economy, why would they hire more? When you paint house that requires 150 gallons of paint, do you buy 300 just to make the paint manufacturers happy? Try using common sense, it’s a wonderful thing.

  84. big difference in the Kock Brothers and George Soros

    There sure is, George Soros earned his money and cares about his adopted country after surrefing at the hands of the radical right wing 1930’s Germany barely escaping with his lives. Today he works to help the country that he loves and that has reworded his hard work.
    The koch brothers on the other hand were born with gold spoon in their mouths, have never worked a day in their pampered lives and think the country is thiers to do with what they see fit. They are after all the ruling elite and should be able to dictate to the surfs that, for now, have a few dollars that righfully should be in the hands of said ruling elite.
    The Consitution in the eyes of the koch brothers is mere toilet paper.

  85. roncella, lying about things is the domain of islander, please do not trend into her waters.
    You are even worse at than she is.
    The Presidnet, YOUR Presidnet does not want to ‘raise taxes’ on anyone. He does have to roll back the tax cuts on those making over 1 million, because they are a huge reason for the defict you whine about so much.
    No jobs will be destryed, despite what fox news is telling you.
    The rights understanding of the economy is the reason the economy died in the first place.
    the last people we need or want dealing with matter economic are the rightists and surly not the greedy hate filled teahddists.

    Have a wonderful 4th!

  86. tree_guy says:

    They are after all the ruling elite and should be able to dictate to the surfs

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/30/when-is-it-too-soon-to-fight-back/#ixzz1Qtdqx9lD

    The Koch brothers have a right to try to influence change in the country just as you and Kardnos do. Why do you hate it when conservatives try to influence public policy? And when you blog about surfs are you referring to the people commonly known as ‘serfs/”

  87. “George Soros wants to wreck America anyway he can”

    Another person who thinks he can read minds.

  88. Walker’s bill never was about the budget. The public unions in WI agreed to accept the Walker cuts in return for continuing collective bargaining.

    Likewise here in WA public unions accepted pay cuts and increased withholdings for medial and retirement.

    Concerned7,
    What new war’s have Congress stated?

    Fact – Congress has the sole responsibility to create and pass a budget.
    The President can only propose and suggest.

    The leadership failure is in Congress, specifically in the House.

    Rpots in Congress should focus on doing their jobs instead of working to replace the President.

    T_G,
    Government Jobs were once distributed based on loyality and dedication to the Party in power – it was called the Spoils System.

    T_G says: JULY 1, 2011 at 9:32 AM
    “The world xring dreams about is a world where everyone is equally miserable.”

    I know it’s dirty pool using your words verbatim.

    And I have never used the term ‘teahaddists’ so just hold your breath till I do.

  89. aislander says:

    KARDNOS writes: “Let me guess…Tree thinks that rich people provide jobs just because they can.”

    You seem to be implying that motivation matters where human transactions are concerned. They do, but not in the way you seem to believe. Are you saying that an employer who has work that needs to be performed is providing a job that is somehow less valuable than “public service?”

  90. KARDNOS says:

    aislander – in case you don’t know…..

    Government hires people when it needs a job done.

    Private enterprise hires people when it needs a job done.

    It’s no more complicated than that.

  91. KARDNOS says:

    xring states – “Fact – Congress has the sole responsibility to create and pass a budget. The President can only propose and suggest.

    The leadership failure is in Congress, specifically in the House.

    Rpots in Congress should focus on doing their jobs instead of working to replace the President.”

    xring – thanks for that reminder, but remember that you are dealing with a group of people that will deny anything that doesn’t suit their ideolism

  92. aislander says:

    I understand that, of course, but I DON’T understand why you seem to impute that motivation only to “rich people” in your response to tree…

  93. KARDNOS says:

    “The Koch brothers have a right to try to influence change in the country just as you and Kardnos do.”

    I’m all for the right to influence change, until wealth is the sole motivator. How about leveling the playing field so that all Americans can afford to participate in the “influencing”?

  94. aislander says:

    By the way, KARD, you’re wrong about government’s hiring people ONLY when it has a job that needs to be done. You’ve never heard of make-work jobs or of political sinecures?

  95. KARDNOS says:

    aislander – I’m not going to repeat all of the comments on the thread for you. You’ll have to read them and find the cohesiveness. Also, look for sarcasm at times. Yeah..this is one of those times…

  96. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    July 2, 2011 at 8:00 am
    By the way, KARD, you’re wrong about government’s hiring people ONLY when it has a job that needs to be done. You’ve never heard of make-work jobs or of political sinecures?”

    Why don’t you be specific and show us where that has actually happened, as opposed to allegations? As the spouse of a government employee that was riffed three times in two years, I’m a bit skeptical about your assertion…..

  97. KARDNOS says:

    I might add that due to recent legislation, my spouses phone calls have increased about 300% with no added labor.

    This is on the lowest pay scale my spouse has seen since 2008.

    I’ll be waiting for your support data for your assertion.

  98. aislander says:

    You’ve HEARD of the CCC (the most famous example of make-work) and you DO know about ambassadorships and the like given to political supporters? If you don’t wish to have an honest discussion…

  99. KARDNOS says:

    Having worked for a family owned business, I have witnessed “make work” jobs, though…..

  100. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    July 2, 2011 at 8:05 am
    You’ve HEARD of the CCC (the most famous example of make-work)”

    Oh…yeah…the CCC that built Millersylvania State Park which has created revenue for decades……..that kind of make work?

    Ambassadors don’t serve a purpose? Why do Republicans appoint them, then? That wouldn’t be prudent for those “fiscal conservatives”

  101. KARDNOS says:

    “During the time of the CCC, volunteers planted nearly 3 billion trees to help reforest America, constructed more than 800 parks nationwide and upgraded most state parks, updated forest fire fighting methods, and built a network of service buildings and public roadways in remote areas.”

    Yeah…served no purpose at all…..huh?

    The problem here is the proverbial “half empty glass”……

  102. Any discussion in which aislander’s assertions are questioned seems to be considered less than honest.

  103. KARDNOS says:

    “If you don’t wish to have an honest discussion… ”

    And the room gets suddenly silent on the Right side

  104. aislander says:

    xring writes: “And I have never used the term ‘teahaddists’ so just hold your breath till I do.”

    LarryFine: I think THIS one is right in your wheelhouse. I KNOW the term was used by a lefty whose posts I routinely respond to, and not by one I routinely ignore, so I’m thinking it’s probably xring. I seem to recall the word’s being hyphenated, so if THAT’S the distinction you’re drawing, xring, I suppose you can maintain that you’ve never used the term…

  105. aislander says:

    I didn’t say that CCC projects and ambassadorships don’t NECESSARILY serve a purpose (although many of the politically-appointed ambassadors are figureheads, with the career diplomats doing the actual work), I am saying that those jobs weren’t created out of immediate necessity other than for the government to distribute money. You stated that government had work that “needed to be done…”

  106. Roncella says:

    aislander you are one of the most accurate and fair posters here. Most times you back your comments up with facts and references.

    Remember when the left can’t win the argument they make it personal, its alway their fall back position. Hang in there, Happy 4th July. Its BBQ/Cold Beer Time.

  107. KARDNOS says:

    Oh……we move onto another issue, now…….

    Well, let me settle the fight….I believe I was the one that invented “TEAhadist”.

    So what is your point? In a thread full of namecalling directed at progressives, am I to understand that the Right Wing can’t handle a little play on words?

    As to my reason for the term – I’ve watched the tactics of the “TEA Party” – AKA Astroturf Funding by Koch and Armey and I see a bunch of blind followers that don’t have the sense to realize that they are stepping on their own toes, much like a group of people that commit suicide for a cause that they’ll not enjoy.

  108. aislander says:

    So…KARD…DOES motivation matter when it comes to human transactions? That’s where I started…

  109. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    July 2, 2011 at 8:05 am
    You’ve HEARD of the CCC (the most famous example of make-work)”

    “aislander says:
    July 2, 2011 at 8:24 am
    I didn’t say that CCC projects…don’t NECESSARILY serve a purpose”

    Building 800 parks is just distribution of money???? How do you know we didn’t need those parks or the reforestation? Have you seen what happens when clear cuts are not replanted?

  110. aislander says:

    Thanks, Roncella–have a great barbecue. I know you have to get started early if you’re preparing something like ribs or beer-battered shrimp!

  111. aislander says:

    See. That’s what I mean about avoiding an honest discussion. You pick up on some wording and ignore the actual point of my post. I would prefer not to dance around like that…

  112. KARDNOS says:

    aislander……the motivation is supposedly to achieve a work goal. Now, as I mentioned, I have seen families create “make work” jobs for other family members, thus I could be not entirely correct.

    For those that say the “free market” drives an economy, I can’t comprehend why there would be any other motivation for jobs, other than work achievements.

    Let’s take an example. Paris Hilton is rich beyond imagination. Does that mean that she’ll hire a technical engineer for her “staff”? Of course not.

    The whole falicy of “people of wealth creating jobs” is a joke. If they have wealth, but no need for the labor force, they pocket the extra money.

  113. KARDNOS says:

    Just when I demonstrate the words from the horse’s mouth…or the other end, as the case may be……

    We get this….

    “aislander says:
    July 2, 2011 at 8:35 am
    See. That’s what I mean about avoiding an honest discussion.”

    Perfect call, Polago!!!

  114. aislander says:

    I’m not talking about “government jobs” or the “free market” or “rich people,” KARD I’m trying to get to the basis of your perception of human transactions and the importance of the nature of what motivates them. DOES motivation matter?

  115. KARDNOS says:

    aislander…..

    If I asked you what time it was, you’d attempt to tell me how to build a watch.

    I’ve seen less manure spread on a garden.

  116. aislander says:

    Not spreading anything: just asking a question. YOU brought up the concept of motivation when you stated that people had a right to “influence change until wealth is the sole motivator.” That aroused my interest in what you believe ARE motivations that legitimately allow one to “influence change…” C’mon: let’s talk…

  117. LarryFine says:

    I think the real distinction about jobs and government is that government actually PAYS people NOT to WORK… it has quite the ‘motivating’ outcome of people becoming comfortable living their lives dependent on government. (obviously there are people who use government as a temporary safetey net, but there are generations of dependents too.)

  118. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, This Weekend is called by most Americans, the 4th Of July Week End.

    What that means kardnos, is many folks who are still lucky enough to have a job in this Obama depression economy have the sat. sun .mon. Off to celebrate the 4Th Of July.

    KARDNOS, just wondering are you from another Country ?

  119. LarryFine says:

    p.s. I quit saving Mr. Hill’s comments after sumner, and only have a couple from xring. It would be an exercise in extreme redundancy… and pointless.

  120. aislander says:

    KARDNOS writes: “If they have wealth, but no need for the labor force, they pocket the extra money.”

    What you don’t know about economics, KARD, is a LOT. You’re right that Paris Hilton wouldn’t hire a “technical engineer” for her staff, but to say she would “pocket the money” is laughable for several reasons. Rich people, no matter how indolent don’t let their money lie idle; they prefer to invest it in the economy so that it grows. THAT creates jobs. Most rich people aren’t indolent, though, the majority of them in America having earned their wealth (read “The Millionaire Next Door”). Finally Paris Hilton is famous for NOT pocketing her money, but for spending it lavishly on things she finds attractive. Clothing designers, jewelers, car dealers, purveyors of luxury goods ALL employ people in America, who would not HAVE jobs if Paris Hilton and her ilk “pocketed their money…”

  121. LarryFine says:

    The quote you highlighted really speaks for itself… in several ways…. the simplest and most obvious is the class envy that exists.

  122. aislander says:

    But let’s operate on a more approachable level, KARD. What do YOU like to spend your money on? Or HAVE to spend your money on?

  123. aislander says:

    I can actually imagine a scenario in which Paris Hilton would need the services of a “technical engineer.”

    Let’s say she wanted to build a moat around her mansion to repel envious liberals or rioting anarchists. I don’t know if she HAS a mansion (she probably keeps an apartment or townhouse, but for the sake of the discussion, let’s say she does), but bear with me.

    She would need an engineer to design the moat so that it wouldn’t leak into the basement, turn the grounds into a bog, lose the water into underground cracks, or go brackish. Whatever: I’ve never designed a moat.

    Now you might believe that repelling liberals and/or anarchists (hmm–is that even a valid distinction? Don’t know…) is a bad or even evil motive for hiring an engineer, but does the engineer care about that when she cashes her check? Do the people who work for the engineering firm care? Don’t THINK so…

  124. KARDNOS says:

    Uh…..she would “contract” an existing engineer…not hire one to her staff.

    Thanks for demonstrating that Conservatives don’t have a clue as to how to create jobs.

  125. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    July 2, 2011 at 9:03 am
    KARDNOS, This Weekend is called by most Americans, the 4th Of July Week End.

    Yeah…beer at 8:25 am is an American tradition……LOL

  126. LarryFine says:

    I’m still wondering when it’s too soon to give the Nobel or name a school after a president.

  127. aislander says:

    So…the engineer is unemployed because she is not on Paris’s “staff?” Kooky, huh Larry? And then there are the people to build and maintain the moat, you know, the contractor and the people HE employs, pool company (or whatever) that services the moat and the people IT employs, the drowning-liberal retrieval company and its lifeguards…

  128. I do believe the some rights need reading lessons along with their new eyeglasses.

    As the old saying goes – Read’m and weep.

    Xring – June 30, 2011 at 11:21 PM posted:
    “The living wage in Outagime County (where the Kaukauna SD is located):
    For a family of 2 adults + 2 kids is $60,000 per year”

    Concernedy7 – July 1, 2011 at 12:23 AM posted:
    “Xtp- so in a family with 2 adults, one of them only has to earn $14k a year? Sounds fair to me. That is min wage. System works. You can admit you are wrong at any time”

    xtp855 –July 1, 2011 at 2:39 PM posted:
    “The koch bros are a cancer on America.” And

    “The only folks they [Koch Brothers] have been successful in fooling are some rightwingers that can’t think. and they own the teahaddits, sine they them selves invented the movement to further their facist agenda.”

    tree_guy, July 1 2011 at 2:47 pm posts”
    “teahaddits” xring”

    tree_guy, July 1 2011 at 2:53 PM posts”
    “The koch bros are a cancer on America” xtring

  129. aislander says:

    xring writes: “I do believe the (sic) some rights need reading…”

    I think Miranda covers that…

  130. aislander says:

    Anyway, KARD, back to the idea of motivation: What do you like (or need) to spend your money on?

  131. aislander says:

    KARDNOS writes: “…the motivation is supposedly to achieve a work goal.”

    So, what’s the motivation for setting that goal. I’m trying to get down to basics here, KARD…

  132. Kar the CCC not only did state parks how about Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee Dam just to mention a couple. Seems to me those two alone put thousands to work, besides helping our country in many other ways. Those jobs did not just shift money they created many more jobs. Without those two alone, we would not have farming, electricity. The problem with the rich and most of the reps is they only are thinking how can I make a fortune now. they do not think long term. That mind set it what is killing our country.

  133. aislander says:

    So…oh,etc…was the CCC created to help end the Great Depression? If it, and other tactics were SO successful in that regard, why did that economic contraction last longer than any other in American history?

  134. Short term goals Americans working, Long term goals Americans still working.
    Plus growth. Sounds like it worked to me. It did not take us a couple of years to go into a depression, so it would not take us a couple of years to get out of it. Same as now. As before the depression everyone wanted to make the quick buck did not think of the future. Ya think we would have learned our lessons. but you know greed… fast money just like Vegas..

  135. Roncella says:

    ohmymy, Take your sun glasses off. This recession is looking more like a double dip recession, thanks to Obama, Reid, Pelosi. We maybe on our way to a full blown Depression if things don’t change soon.

    Hows all that hope and change and yes we can feeling about now for all you libs/dems. who voted for Obama/Biden ???

  136. aislander says:

    ohmymy: Really? What do you know about the depression of 1920-21? That was sharper than the Great Depression, and last fewer MONTHS than the Great One did YEARS. Coolidge and Harding tried a little thing called tax and spending CUTS, rather than taxing and spending. And you know what else? The only place in the world where the Great Depression was CALLED the Great Depression was right here, in Roosevelt’s USA. Roosevelt’s policies sustained something long term, but it sure wasn’t growth…

  137. aislander says:

    …unless you mean “growth of government?” Oh, well then: sure.

  138. aislander says:

    …and the Depression itself, of course…

  139. aislander says:

    …but that should go without saying.

    Duh yuh LIKE my KARDNOS impression? Just a few more posts to go in the series!

  140. theglovesRoff says:

    Very nice AI

  141. KARDNOS says:

    I quit commenting at 10:00 am and 6 hours later……aislander is still stuck on me

    I’m waiting for the “you post too much” complaint…..LOL

  142. aislander says:

    Don’t flatter yourself, KARD. I found myself adding thoughts in separate posts and was reminded of someone who does nothing BUT that. But I flatter MYSELF that I avoided the opaque boilerplate to which you seem to be addicted…

    In any case, insults aside, I’d still like to get your thoughts on the motivations that drive human transactions. If it is to achieve a “work goal,” why was that goal set in the first place?

  143. theglovesRoff says:

    LOL

    Kard brags that he was offline for 6 hours and someone was still talking about him during that time. Someone has a very high opinion of themself.

    But we can all sift through the wallpaper.

    Oh, to make sure I respond to the letter (because someone has a hissy about that)
    It is never too soon to fight back.

  144. And islander’s her only response to my last post is :Duh,you spelled a word”

    Which is more than T_G and L_F responded to bing frosted with their own words.

  145. aislander says:

    Just didn’t want people to think it was MY misspelling, x…

  146. theglovesRoff says:

    And I will say it again.

    What the hell was xring trying to say?

    You leftists are all over Roncella, why don’t you police xring once in a while?

  147. LarryFine says:

    x’s 8:49 post is gibberish.

  148. aislander says:

    My questions are still out there, KARD. Let’s actually clarify something, for a change, rather than going for cheap “points…”

  149. ron, take your sunglasses off??? how is hope and change working for you?? have heard that hundred of times from you on different post.
    ais. I do know a lot about the depression, along with the CCC. Next time you turn on your lights, eat some fruit or veggies, you can thank all of the workers you want change immediately, does not happen in a day Like I said before it took years to get here it will take a long time to get back. You all seem to want fast growth how about nice steady

  150. aislander says:

    How about SOME growth? How about prosperity? We KNOW the New Deal didn’t work (twelve YEARS of depression), and now its programs and their progeny have saddled us with monumental debt. I wish you lefties would just admit you were wrong about damn near EVERYTHING and go away and leave the rest of us the hell alone to go about our business…

  151. hey ais back to name calling?? that is your answer to everything love to leave you alone, how about you moving to Somalia no government, no libs, free enterprise, you can take your anger out there. you could do real well there…No I will not get your ticket, you are on your own.

  152. aislander says:

    If you don’t want name calling, don’t make fatuous posts about Somalia and no government. Free enterprise requires a civil society governed by law, very much including contract law, which apparently means nothing to the President you guys elected…

  153. aislander says:

    BTW, oh, etc., asking to left alone by a bunch of busybody scolds (THAT was name calling) is not “name calling…”

  154. aislander says:

    See, ohmymy: that was dishonest. You set up a straw man (what you guys like to call a “false choice”) between a totalitarian state, such as the one your ilk is constructing–and if you don’t believe me, I would be happy to have a discussion about the origin of the word “totalitarian”–and anarchy. Those are most certainly not the only choices along the continuum of governing systems…

  155. aislander says:

    Feeling prolix today, KARD: what can I say? That you felt compelled to comment on it shows it to be the exception rather than the rule…

  156. LarryFine says:

    …. oh, and I’ve been gone for 6 hours and look who felt compelled to bring me into it…. Kooky.

  157. aie “you lefties” that was your post how do you know I’m a leftie? you don’t. that is name calling and assumptions. and we all know what that means I just feel if you want to be left alone so be it. go. you thought that was dishonest, never meant for it to be dishonest just giving you options you are the one stated you wanted to be left alone. w

  158. aislander says:

    I don’t mind being called a “rightie,” ohmymy. It’s what I am (in the American sense, that is), but I draw the line at “tea******” or “wingnut,” although the latter could apply to the extremes of either side.

    Having said that, I don’t know if any of us “righties” would be defending the New Deal and making the case that it then led, or that the same tactics would now lead, to sustained growth and prosperity. I think that DOES put you on the left. Sorry, but it is what it is.

    As for being “left alone,” I meant that in the sense of intrusive government, and as long as people on the left want government to do more and more, well, that’s not leaving me alone…

  159. KARDNOS says:

    aislander – how much do you get paid for rewriting history?

    “obtrusive government” – quoted by those that haven’t qualified for Social Security or Medicare yet.

  160. aislander says:

    I guess “intrude” and “obtrude” are roughly synonymous, but maybe it’s revealing that you chose to use the latter, which means to push outward (that would be from the POV of government, of course), and I chose the former, which means to push into. That would be from MY POV. Government is pushing itself into my business…

  161. aislander says:

    Which history did I rewrite, pray tell? The Great Depression DIDN’T last twelve years? It DIDN’T end much sooner in the rest of the world? The New Deal DIDN’T make government larger, orders of magnitude more expensive, and, yes, more intrusive? New Deal-generated and inspired programs AREN’T bankrupting the nation? I really don’t know what you mean because you won’t engage and have a conversation…

  162. aislander says:

    Oh. I know. That thing about the New Deal not dealing effectively with the depression, and, in fact, causing it to become the Great Depression? That’s what? Heresy? Sacrilege? Blasphemy? See, I know government and liberalism is a religion with the left…

  163. Roncella says:

    ohmymy, You may hear it 100 more times until it starts to sink into your brain.

    Hopefully most Americans have had enough of Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the rest of the big spenders in Congress and vote for Republicans and Conservatives in 2012.

  164. “You may hear it 100 more times until it starts to sink into your brain.”

    Now, that’s funny.

  165. Roncella says:

    Polago, Happy 4th to you and your family.

  166. To you and yours , as well, Roncella.

    And to all Americans, Happy Independence Day!

  167. Islander
    intrusive means to intrude where one is not welcome or invited.
    Obtrusive means to impose ones opinions and beliefs on others.

    Roncella,
    Repeating a statement 10,000 times does not change the validity of the original statement.

  168. aislander says:

    My God, xring: I said ROUGHLY synonymous. I was referring to etymology when I pointed out the differences in the words. Are you OCD, or what?

  169. aislander says:

    By the way, xring, you defined “intrusive” using the word “intrude,” another form of the word. THAT is a logical fallacy called a circular definition…

  170. Roncella says:

    xring, tell that to the Lame Stream Media who use that form of mind control on much of the general Public.

    They have a talent for repeating the same bile on so many far left topics until what they repeat becomes fact as when one Liberal columnists uses other liberal columnist statements to back up their statements. Before long in the minds of many it becomes fact, true or not.

  171. LarryFine says:

    Looks like Lars isn’t the only one eating xring’s lunch ;)

    BTW, I posed a question earlier… when is it “too soon” to award the Nobel Peace prize??? or name a school after a preasident???

  172. KARDNOS says:

    “Free enterprise requires a civil society governed by law, very much including contract law, which apparently means nothing to the President you guys elected…”

    Have a chat with the GOP governors that are taking away labor negotiating rights after contracts have been signed, aislander……

  173. LarryFine says:

    Governors do not have the authority (but you know that)… it’s their state congress. The governors just sign on the dotted line.

  174. Nice Aislander…..its amusing to read these strings, I just sit back and laugh watching anyone try to defend the New Deal and pretend that it did more good than damage. AND, at least with the New Deal, the government “invested” in infrastructure(not saying it wasn’t a stupid move that caused what could have been a 3 or 4 year painful recession to turn into a full blown depression). This time around they aren’t even building anything that will serve this nation in the future. Just mortgaging us to the Chinese more and more, with no end in sight. Anyone but Obama 2012! My 10 year old couldn’t screw it up more than this administration.

  175. aislander says:

    KARDNOS writes: “…GOP governors that are taking away labor negotiating rights after contracts have been signed, aislander…”

    If the taxpayers are tapped, they’re tapped, but never mind that. The question is: how can you libs get on your high horse about contract law after what your president did to the Chrysler and GM bondholders? It seems that their ownership rights were just handed over to the unions. You guys LOVE to point to perceived hypocrisy on our side, but I’m pointing at YOU…

  176. Roncella
    Repeating the same bile (aka the big lie) is a staple of the great right wing sound machine.

    Islander,
    Those same GOP governors who are busy busting public unions to balance their state budgets are able to find the time and wherewithall to give tax breaks and subsidies to the rich and to big business.

  177. aislander says:

    Good, xring. I’m glad they did. Who wants to be government droid?

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