Comments on: TACOMA: Don’t penalize top students

By: bell

bell — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:36:28 +0000

So disheartening to see so many snide comments about a highly capable or gifted child who didn’t make the cut. We should all celebrate having good students whatever their capabilities in our community.
Highly capable children are put thru a series of testing including classroom portfolios, teacher recommendations, a series of standardized tests. AND the reward is higher and more difficult classwork with gobs of homework and competitions they train for, and the worst part of it is every time one of these little human beings makes a slip there is not shortage of sour grape voices questioning their capabilities.
The truth is that gifted children find hard what other children find easy. And vice versa. Even Albert Einstein’s teachers thought he was retarded because of delays in developmental speech, no one could understand him, he didn’t do well in class etc etc which made him a student that didn’t fit the regular pattern.
One reason there are highly capable programs is precisely because these children don’t do well in a regular classroom – their brains work differently, they learn differently, they have a higher incidence of quirks, tics, ADD, quirky behavior; most of them have been targetted by bullies many times before entering these programs; many of them dropout, there are lots of former gifted students driving trucks and selling cars because we (the collective WE) failed to tap into these children’s potential – and that’s all giftedness is – a potential which like any potential that is neglected goes to WASTE.
ANd that is why CHINA, ESTONIA, SINGAPORE, SWITZERLAND, INDIA invest heavily in these precious resources – these little human potentialities that we neglect shamefully and that we resent spending resources on – so if these children aren’t born into a family of riches like the GATES’ etc, by the time they reach junior high we lose their gifts collectively as a country and as a community.
Don’t ever give up ON ANY KID, – challenge their tests and ask that they retake them and be allowed to enter. Children have bad days on test days – if they are willing to take the test again – why would we begrudge them the opportunity? we should collectively welcome any child that wants to retake a test. – highly capable, developmentally handicapped, just plain vanilla and chocolate – it doesn’t matter – celebrate all our children’s ability to STAND UP AFTER FALLING AND SUPPORT THEM TO THE FINISH LINE. COME ON PEOPLE – GET TOGETHER NOW AND SUPPORT ANY CHILD THAT FALLS FLAT ON THEIR FACE AND WANTS TO GET UP AND TRY AGAIN!

By: unbanned1

unbanned1 — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 22:44:24 +0000

Guess what granny, what this tells me is your granddaughter ain’t as smart as you thought she was.

By: cclngthr

cclngthr — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:19:48 +0000

letsworkitout,
Standardized tests have always been around, and are used to determine eligibility for many things, as you, and I know. They are an indicator of achievement, however they are limited in some ways if the test is designed to compare one student against a group of students OR, a test that measures a students knowledge of concepts against a standard.

alindasue,
With standardized tests, there has to be a benchmark of knowledge to determine if a student fits in with a particular program. The tests are used for that. At the same time, the tests are used to measure what the student knows (as with the MSP) against a standard which all students must achieve. Without the type of tests used, we would not be able to have an objective form of assessment to measure student knowledge that is based off a specific standard. Having district or teacher designed tests do not give an accurate picture that can be used to determine elegibility of certain programs requiring specific knowledge because these teacher made/produced tests are subjective and can be interpreted differently.

If we do not teach what is on the test, the student will do poorly. That simple.

By: letsworkitout

letsworkitout — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:56:56 +0000

standardized tests are more accurate as an indicator of achievement if they are more frequent. One test one day doesn’t necessarily translate to bottom line learning. “Not doing so well” on the test could mean she didn’t get 4′s for a highly capable child. I highly doubt she received 1′s.

Many of the posts here are far too cynical, so much so that I think these same people (who are cynical in most of their posts, pound their chests with the “truth” constantly) are among the most bitter of society. They never see the good in anything. I don’t know if these people know that after a while they sound monotonous, predictable, and boring. You don’t even need to read all of their post anymore. So to the bobcats, bigswingingrichards, blaines, blakes, kardnos, concernedtacoma, and the like….bring something to the table beyond your bitterness, negativity, and just plain nasty attitudes. Bring some real solutions to the problems since you seem to think you know what is best.

By: Polago

Polago — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 04:45:02 +0000

Do we know for sure that the standardized test is the only thing that the school district looks at when determining who makes the cut, alindasue? Don’t they look at other factors?

Everyone has a bad day and it sucks when that bad day is an important day. How are we supposed to determine that this student should be given special consideration because she had a bad day when she tested?

When Tiger Woods has a bad day and he doesn’t make the cut he may be disappointed but he understands that he doesn’t deserve special consideration just because he’s a top golfer. He has to earn his place every time just like anyone else.

By: alindasue

alindasue — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 18:22:06 +0000

To illustrate why I don’t think the standardized test alone should not be a factor in determining eligibility for the highly capable program:

I have a high school age daughter who has a cumulative GPA of 3.8. She won two awards this year for academic excellence.

One day this year, she took a Geometry exam and received a “D” on the test. She hadn’t been feeling well that day and it showed in her test score. When she went back to retake the test a couple days later after she was feeling better, she scored a “B+”. She scored well on the HSPE this year, but what if the day they took the standardized tests had been the day she hadn’t felt well? Should they kick her out of her Honors level classes just based on that?

By: alindasue

alindasue — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 18:01:19 +0000

Polago said, “Given that there are a limited number of spaces in gifted programs, and they are highly coveted, what basis would you use to decide who gets into the program and who gets to stay in the program, alindasue, if not standardized tests?”

Standardized tests tell a bit about what a student knows, but they rarely tell the whole picture. I could see using a test score as part of the criteria, but it should never be the whole criteria.

Ms. Jensen’s granddaughter was already in the highly capable program based on other factors besides the standardized tests. No doubt her work in the normal classes was above level and she was doing extremely well in her classroom tests. (That’s how I got put into the advanced math class when I was her age, long before “standardized tests” or “highly capable” programs became normal.) Since she “always received top grades” in her classes, it is obvious that the highly capable program was a good fit for her.

“As tree_guy pointed out, if this girl was allowed to stay in the program someone more qualified may not be admitted. The program needs to be fare to this girl but it also needs to be fair to all of the other students who qualify, as well.”

The question is: Is the student who was given her slot in the program (if there was one) truly more qualified or did he just do better on the MSP tests? Is a student who does better on the tests but doesn’t score as high in the day-to-day class work truly more qualified?

THAT is the problem I have with basing qualification strictly on the standardized testing. The MSP should be a factor – but if the student is performing very highly in all other areas, the standardized tests alone should not disqualify her.

By: Polago

Polago — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:07:20 +0000

fare? oops!

By: Polago

Polago — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 13:55:14 +0000

Given that there are a limited number of spaces in gifted programs, and they are highly coveted, what basis would you use to decide who gets into the program and who gets to stay in the program, alindasue, if not standardized tests?

As tree_guy pointed out, if this girl was allowed to stay in the program someone more qualified may not be admitted. The program needs to be fare to this girl but it also needs to be fare to all of the other students who qualify, as well.

By: alindasue

alindasue — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 06:23:24 +0000

I recommend that several of you go back and reread the letter. This is not a case of someone trying to get their child into the gifted program. This is a case of a child who was already doing well in advanced level gifted classes who got kicked out of the program based on nothing but the results of one standardized test.

This is my biggest gripe about high stakes standardized testing. True learning is limited because teachers are forced to “teach to the test” in order for their students to move through the system. It’s very sad.