Letters to the Editor

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TERROR: A little profiling is justifiable

Letter by Blaine C. Garver, Spanaway on June 27, 2011 at 10:51 am with 209 Comments »
June 27, 2011 10:51 am

Re: Seattle terror plot.

Here’s the short and sweet of it without a lot of PC nonsense. People, mostly Muslims, are wanting to harm their enemies. To ignore them, nay, look the other way in the name of being sensitive will continue to reap a harvest of tears for this country.

God bless the person(s) and organizations that caught this plot before it reached fruition. I know well what the PC response to this will be, but don’t go there.

When an APB for a stocky, salt-and-pepper bearded, shaved head, 60-year-old white male goes out, I’d expect any law enforcement officer seeing me to do their job. Exercise your Second Amendment rights, citizens; the police cannot protect you.

Leave a comment Comments → 209
  1. LarryFine says:

    “the police cannot protect you.”

    They have “no duty to protect” … it’s been case law several times over.

  2. Roncella says:

    larry your letter is timely and accurate. Another serious problem is the Dem. controlled cities like Seattle who are classified as Sanctuary Cities.

    This is a foolish way to handle the thousands of illegals who drive with or without insurance and a valid drivers license. In fact to futher put all the citizens of Washington in danger Washington is one of only two States in the Nation where illegals or whoever can apply for a license.

    Whats wrong with the police when stopping someone for a traffic violation in asking some questions when they have suspicion that the folks in the car are not here legally ??

  3. So what are you alluding to dear letter writer? Shoot the brown people first and ask questions later? Is that your 2nd amendment rights?

  4. tomwa007 says:

    Sorry TubbytheTuba,

    Timothy Mc Veigh, Joseph Stack ,James Wenneker von Brunn , Scott Roeder, James J. Lee, and Jim D. Adkisson are all white, American citizens, terriosists and actually killed US citizens.

    Blain, your religious and racial prejudice is showing again

  5. BlaineCGarver says:

    Tom, yes they were, and they were delt with accordingly. Secondly, go ahead and keep your head in the sand; Authorities are avoiding looking at Muslims in fear of being labeled. How dumb is that? Third, when Abdul the Angry opens up in a mall near you, wouldn’t you like to defend yourself? Or just dial 911 and hope he doesn’t see you for five or ten minutes?

    @ Frida: Nice try, I don’t bite on BS baited hooks…LOL!!

  6. Racist fools on the right begged for the TSA and the big Govt to ‘keep them safe’ from the brown skinned devils with a different religion and look. Now that they have the big Govt and it’s doing just what they asked for, they are whining and crying.

    Of course dimwits that get their news from fox and drudge………

  7. BlaineCGarver says:

    Speaking of people beating the hate drum, there’s xtp right on cue. Personally, I watch BBC and PBS nightly news….THEY think OhBummer is an idiot, as well.

  8. Pecksbadboy says:

    Blaine
    Maybe we should profile all Christians because they might kill someone because they work for Planned Parenthood or perform abortions which are legal in this country.

    They are badly dressed with “Jesus Loves You” or WHJD tags ribbons around their necks or like some Mormons have 6 wives and are easily recognizable.

    Pick your enemies not your prejudices.

  9. tomwa007, you forgot Ted Kaczynski, Jared Loughner and Charles Joseph Whitman.
    BCG is a prime example of what paranoia does to one’s ability to deal with reality.

  10. Omega6234 says:

    Racial profiling works.. plain and simple.

  11. SadujTogracse says:

    Have there been some caucasion Christian males who have committed terrorist acts? Yes there have. Is that group the one committing a major portion of the terrorists acts against Americans and American interests? No they are not.

    It’s funny how the left wants to focus on the ingrown toenail and totally ignore the cancer.

  12. BlaineCGarver says:

    Again…LMAO….there is not a worldwide, organized group of Angry White Males out to destroy America. It’s amazing that about half the country is willing to throw the USA under the bus in the name of political base votes, and PC.

  13. concernedtacoma7 says:

    So which one of the non-muslim terrorists would the TSA have caught?

    Internal vs external treats. And the FBI does have thousands of officers dedicated to those non-muslim groups.
    Lets not forget about the Weather Undergound folks BHO hangs out with.

    Loons will alwyas come from all walks of life. But jihad is a movement from a specific demographic.

  14. “SadujTogracse says:
    June 27, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    Have there been some caucasion Christian males who have committed terrorist acts? Yes there have. Is that group the one committing a major portion of the terrorists acts against Americans and American interests? No they are not.”

    How many Americans were killed or tortured by the KKK from its inception to today, versus the number of Americans killed by terrorists that are claimed to be Islamic? A terrorist act is not limited to murder.

    By the way, did anyone notice Chris Christy referring to Bin Laden’s killing as “murder”, this weekend on Meet The Press?

  15. “Lets not forget about the Weather Undergound folks BHO hangs out with.”

    Don’t forget to bring up Hillary Clinton’s large ankles also. Oh and Sarah Palin’s husband’s succesionist friends…..

  16. “BlaineCGarver says:
    June 27, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    Again…LMAO….there is not a worldwide, organized group of Angry White Males out to destroy America.”

    Nor is there a worldwide organized group of anything out to destroy America. Less than 24 terrorists located in the US (that are now dead) doesn’t constitute much of a worldwide effort.

    I don’t think it’s possible for you to LYAO. This is one of those “ENDLESS” issues of which Roncella speaks.

  17. Publico and Tom – Paul Hill and his “Army of God”

  18. SadujTogracse says:

    “How many Americans were killed or tortured by the KKK from its inception to today, versus the number of Americans killed by terrorists that are claimed to be Islamic?”

    I don’t know Kardnos, but since you posed the question I’m assuming you have the answer. What are the numbers?

  19. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

    Here is a nice map of domestic hate groups.

  20. SadujTogracse says:

    Still waiting on the numbers….

  21. The Sad is your search engine broken?

  22. Reconstruction 1st Klan (1865-1877)
    1500 estimated by the Tuskegee Institute
    1200 blacks 300 whites
    100-200 killed in South Carolina
    150 Florida

    The rest mostly killed during black voting in Louisiana in the 1868 US Presidential Election
    The Klan was also partially involved in the Colfax Massacre
    Nadir 2nd Klan ( 1915 – 1944)
    416
    Klan was frequently involved in lynchings, killed mostly blacks in this era
    Murdered Blacks returning from WW1
    Killed Leo Frank (Jewish White)
    Killed 6 blacks attempting to vote in Orange County Florida
    Civil Rights 3rd Klan (1954-1968)
    15 people (13 black)
    These murders are well known and include, but are not limited to
    1963 murder Medgar Evers
    1963 16th street baptist church bombing
    1964 Mississippi Burning
    1965 Viola Luizo Shooting
    1966 Vernon Dahmer Killing
    Many of these murders were prosecuted … in the 90s and 2000s
    David Duke 4th Klan
    1979 Greensboro Massacre 5 killed
    5th Klan
    1981 Lynching Michael Donald
    Klan member electrocuted
    Total 1937
    Note these are only those killed. Hundreds of thousands of people were injured or intimidated by the Klan

  23. Let the denial begin…..

  24. SadujTogracse says:

    So Kardnos makes a claim but doesn’t have the numbers to back it up, yet we are supposed to believe him. More ridiculous blather from Kard.

    Oh and Kard the word COMMITTING means occurring now, not decades ago when the KKK was at its peak. Some more reading comprehension is in order I see. When was the last KKK terrorist act? Anyone remember?

    Baseless assertion indeed.

  25. SadujTogracse says:

    Again the most recent date on Kard’s list was 1981, I wouldn’t call that recent. Nobody is afraid of the KKK anymore Kard (except maybe yourself). We all recognize who the real threat is today, but you keep focusing on that ingrown nail, ok?

  26. SadujTogracse says:

    “Total 1937″

    Wow so the Islamic extremists killed more Americans in one day than the KKK did in over 100 years according to Kard’s list. That’s his “proof” LMAO!

  27. BlaineCGarver says:

    Trying to draw a Moral Equivalent explains nothing. Focus on the matter at hand. If you insist on putting together a list of Blood Sport, let’s tally up the Black on Black drug and gang deaths……there’s plenty of guilt to go around. However, we are talking about worldwide radical jihad by Muslims.

  28. trying to throttle back the emotion…

    in the interest of flying safe as an example, why are we groping little boys and girls, why are we asking elderly women to take off an adult diaper… does that make any sense to any of you? seeing a little girl being frisked by a TSA adult women, do you really feel safer? A nun was frisked… do you really feel safer?

    The question I asked was what about their behavior gave any sort of clue that that person was a threat. the little girl was restless going through the naked scanner, so the picture was a little blurry. Ok, so is their anything else in the behavior of the child and/or the behavior of the parent(s) that gives you pause to believe that little girl is indeed a threat?

    Profiling works… good enough for the FBI… good enough to focus resources and catch criminals… should be good enough for you. Leave kids and grannie alone.

  29. You know, I was going to just list the site address and let The Sad do its editing bit and then slam the hammer down….but I thought….”no…let’s just post the entire copy”…….

    Even with the inclusion of the line “Note these are only those killed. Hundreds of thousands of people were injured or intimidated by the Klan” (b/f by yours truly, so as not to be missed by The Sad)

    The Sad jumped all over the total “dead number” and totally ignored the “hundreds of thousands of people injured and intimidated”, which is perfectly in context to my original statement/question.

    If there is anything I can say positive about The Sad it is that The Sad is dependable……to try to misrepresent the facts presented.

    By the way….my original comment, which The Sad tried to dispute…

    How many Americans were killed or tortured by the KKK from its inception to today, versus the number of Americans killed by terrorists that are claimed to be Islamic? A terrorist act is not limited to murder.

    I figured I’d better produce that a second time before The Sad tries to mispresent that also……

  30. Brandon McClelland, 24, was dragged to death beneath a truck driven by two white men in Paris, Texas last month. McClelland was black. The site of his death is about 200 miles from the location where James Byrd was murdered in a similar manner ten years ago. (Image at left: Jacqueline McClelland, Brandon’s mother; photo courtesy Jesse Muhammad.)

    McClelland’s murder took place on September 16, 2008. Parts of his mangled body were found strewn along the highway at great distance.

    SadujTogracse says:
    June 27, 2011 at 2:12 pm
    Again the most recent date on Kard’s list was 1981″

    If you’d like, I’m sure I can find more. But then your complaint would be that I post to much, Goldilocks……LOL

  31. karnos – what is it with you and the kkk?

    let me tell why they are not a threat to the flying public. When I am taking a plane trip and I see a Bubba or two with the wifebeater t-shirts, confederate belt buckle, chewing the chew… I just look around to see if their are other white folk on the airplane… if so, I feel safe flying knowing that the good olde boys will not blow up the plane with a bunch of ‘dey kind’ on board.

    It’s in the kkk rule book, I’ve seen a copy of it while with the BFR – Brown Folk Resistance… viva America!!! ;)

  32. xx….

    Careful….we are getting close to agreeing. My children’s grandmother from their mother’s side recently flew to Seattle, bringing the kids along to visit their daddy. At a layover in Minnesota (if I recall correctly), she was isolated by TSA who claimed that their drug dog noted drugs in her carry-on bag. The whole episode traumatized my grandaughter, who was on her first flight. Needless to say, Grandma was innocent.

    The irony? Grandma is a drug and alcohol counselor and was heading to Seattle for a week long seminar on recovery issues.

  33. make that my “grandchildren’s grandma from their mother’s side”….

  34. “xx98411 says:
    June 27, 2011 at 2:43 pm
    karnos – what is it with you and the kkk?”

    They have terrorized Americans since the middle 1800s. Isn’t that enough to concern you?

  35. Oh…and if this is only about plane flights…..

    then…I guess…considering the history of white men terrorizing Americans…..”racial profiling” should take place and we could slow down the number of flight per day, significantly.

    It would be really tricky since they don’t wear turbans like Islamics and Hindus.

    Wait….are we supposed to fear Hindus?????

  36. “…she was isolated by TSA who claimed that their drug dog noted drugs in her carry-on bag.”

    hmmm, i gotta ask… in the course of her doing business does she come in contact with various drugs (for training, etc…) and that is the bag that she uses in the course of work.

    I shoot firearms… alot of rounds and make a concerted effort to separate my range gear from my personal gear that I would use to travel. the reason, I fully expect a bombsniffing fido to alert on me.

    I actually got no problem (assuming all is legit, TSA credibility is on the low side right about now) with the actions by the TSA in the story as written… they actually had a specific, measurable reason.

  37. aislander says:

    It says it all that the PC crowd is able to name EACH of the white males who have committed heinous acts in the name of ideology, but it is impossible to list–due to their sheer numbers–all of the Muslim terrorists who have killed far more people around the world as well as 3000-plus in America…

  38. Blaine – have you given up your ridiculous campaign of intentionally misspelling Muslim and Islam?

    The number of U.S. Muslims accused in terror plots dropped by more than half in 2010, according to a new report by a professor with the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security.
    [....]
    “It may be useful to put these figures in perspective,” Professor Charles Kurzman of the UNC’s Department of Sociology writes in the report. “Since 9/11, there have been approximately 150,000 murders in the United States, more than 15,000 per year. There were also more than 20 terrorist plots by non Muslims in the United States in 2010, including attacks by Joseph Stack, who flew a plane into an IRS building in Austin, Texas; Larry Eugene North, who is suspected of placing bombs in mailboxes across eastern Texas; and George Jakubec, who was accused of manufacturing explosives in his home in Escondido, California.”

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/report_says_half_as_many_muslims_accused_in_terror_plots_in_2010.php

  39. xx……Remember Tim McVeigh?

    Now he didn’t have the courage to blow up a plane on which he was flying, but he had no problem killing kids in a daycare.

    Should we profile the Tim McVeigh look-a-likes? You know, caucasian guys with tatoos and close cropped hair?

    Damn…we might get a military vet in civilian clothing…..

  40. that’s your problem… I specifically wrote profiling…. not RACIAL profiling.

    that makes little sense to me – racial profiling

    behavioral profiling… that makes sense and works.

  41. SadujTogracse says:

    The Sad jumped all over the total “dead number” and totally ignored the “hundreds of thousands of people injured and intimidated”, which is perfectly in context to my original statement/question.

    Because Kard, the only thing you cited were deaths. Nothing personal but I’m not taking YOUR “hundreds of thousands of people injured and intimidated” seriously without anything to back that up. Oh and of course Islamic extremists have never injured or intimidated anyone, have they? (eyeroll)

    You trying to make a correlation between what is happening NOW with Islamic extremists, and what happened decades ago with the KKK is ridiculous. What’s next the Barbary pirates?

  42. “it is impossible to list–due to their sheer numbers–all of the Muslim terrorists…”

    The report notes that 20 American Muslims were suspects in terror plots last year, whereas 47 were suspects in 2009. The 2009 spike, as the Associated Press reports was due mainly to a large number of Somali-Americans who tried to join Somalia’s al-Shabab militant movement.

    In all, there were five American Muslim terror suspects who made any effort to carry out their plans, including the individual who tried to set off a bomb in Times Square and others who joined militant movements overseas.

  43. “aislander says:
    June 27, 2011 at 2:49 pm
    It says it all that the PC crowd is able to name EACH of the white males who have committed heinous acts in the name of ideology, but it is impossible to list–due to their sheer numbers–all of the Muslim terrorists who have killed far more people around the world as well as 3000-plus in America… ”

    Truthfully (something you try to avoid) it took three or four commenters to come up with a handful of names and I’m betting that isn’t all inclusive.

    Do you happen to record all the Islamic killings in other countries? I don’t.

  44. “aislander says:
    June 27, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    Someone seems to be trying to justify heinous behavior by pointing to other heinous behavior”

    Another false assertion. I doubt that anyone is attempting to “justify”. How about just “being real”….. and not being “intellecually dishonest” as the letter writer demonstrated.

    Frankly, I’m amused at Blaine’s chumming the waters with a letter than is about as topical as gas prices.

  45. SadujTogracse says:

    Notice that Kardnos leaves this part out of the McClelland incident….

    “The prosecutor cited a lack of evidence in dropping murder charges in June, 2009 and the two men were released.”

    Selective editing at its finest.

  46. SadujTogracse says:

    Uh hello, non-American Muslims can (and have) attacked Americans too. More selective editing.

  47. One more time….for the reading impaired…

    “Note these are only those killed. Hundreds of thousands of people were injured or intimidated by the Klan”

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/06/27/are-you-sure-you-dont-want-to-profile-just-a-little-bit/#ixzz1QW4ML64S

    right from the copy/paste of the website

  48. Wiggle wiggle wiggle…….LOL

  49. “”The prosecutor cited a lack of evidence in dropping murder charges in June, 2009 and the two men were released.”

    OJ was innocent….right?

  50. “Note these are only those killed. Hundreds of thousands of people were injured or intimidated by the Klan”

    karnos, again so what.. the kkk is not the threat they once were. They were investigated, profiled, targeted and dealt with… do they still exist, yep…. are they the threat they once were, ahhh, that’s a no bubba.

    focus on the current threats trying to kill American while keeping an eye on those that were or could be threats.

  51. “xx98411 says:
    June 27, 2011 at 2:49 pm
    “…she was isolated by TSA who claimed that their drug dog noted drugs in her carry-on bag.”

    hmmm, i gotta ask… in the course of her doing business does she come in contact with various drugs (for training, etc…) and that is the bag that she uses in the course of work.

    Fair question….but NOPE

  52. SadujTogracse says:

    “I even bold faced the type from the website to make it easy for you…..LMAO”

    Since it wasn’t in quotes and you usually put your own words in bold I figured you were adding your own commentary. But thank you for the “evidence” from wiki.answers.com, a source that cannot be discredited (sarcasm off)

  53. “karnos, again so what.. the kkk is not the threat they once were.”

    Well…..since there has been no more incidents like 9/11/01, would it not be correct to say that “Muslim terrorists are not the thread they once were”?

  54. “Fair question….but NOPE”

    Then at least they claim to have a reason – dog alerting – to do a more through search. I don’t see any injustice unless she was asked to remove er panties/adult diapers… then I can see your cynicsim.

  55. Here, The Sad, let me help you with your denial….

    “First responders treated the case as a hit and run. The county district attorney’s office denied the possibility of racist motivations, and said comparisons to the Byrd lynching were “preposterous.”

    go back and read the description of “body parts being strewn over a great distance” and tell us about “preposterous”……

    The old story of a black man pulled from the swamp in Mississippi wrapped in chains and the police saying “that will teach him to steal too much chain”…….comes to mind

  56. xx….ever been pulled over for your “license plate light is out”, only to find it isn’t?

    It’s kinda tough to question the dog……

  57. “Well…..since there has been no more incidents like 9/11/01, would it not be correct to say that “Muslim terrorists are not the thread they once were”? ”

    really? you really don’t know of any other incidents since 9/11/2001?

    airplanses, motown, underwear, army bases, pycho docs, times square, recruiting stations… they don’t ring a bell? really?

  58. SadujTogracse says:

    I’m not in denial Kard, I’m only stating A FACT that you left out of your original post about the matter. I don’t know why they dropped the charges, just stating that they did.

    But here is a defintion of denial…. Someone who believes that in 2011 the KKK is as big of threat to Americans as Islamic extremists.

  59. “SadujTogracse says:
    June 27, 2011 at 3:04 pm
    “I even bold faced the type from the website to make it easy for you…..LMAO”

    Since it wasn’t in quotes and you usually put your own words in bold I figured you were adding your own commentary. But thank you for the “evidence” from wiki.answers.com, a source that cannot be discredited (sarcasm off)

    Even though I explained it TWICE????????????????????

    OH….Wiki lied about the numbers from Tuskeegee? What is your next denial?

  60. SadujTogracse says:

    Yes, since the shoe bomb or the underwear bomb didn’t go off and kill many hundreds then that doesn’t count according to Kardnos. But beware of the guys in the white sheets!

  61. “It’s kinda tough to question the dog…… ”

    it doesn’t mean the dog was wrong…. a combination of things could have alerted the dog….

    I am not saying you are not justified in your cynacsim considering the credibility of the TSA right now, but your case does not rise even close to the level of searching adult diapers and groping little girls.

  62. “but your case does not rise even close to the level of searching adult diapers and groping little girls.”

    Well…I’m sorry…..it’s the best I had to offer in terms of real stuff.

  63. SadujTogracse says:

    Anyone seen any numbers yet on how many have been injured/intimidated by Islamic extremists? Yeah I didn’t think so.

  64. karnos – this isn’t about the kkk, this is about profiling, acting PC and the threat to America… focus dude, focus.

  65. SadujTogracse says:

    xx98411, it’s hopeless. Whenever there is a story about profiling or Islamic terrorism Kardnos always falls back on the same old tired arguments… The KKK, McVeigh, Christians, etc.

    His wife sent him to the grocery store to get apples and he came back with only oranges!

  66. Since we know that this thread has nothing to do with RACIAL PROFILING and it’s just about TSA SCREENING…..

    Here is a take from the latest “presidential candidate” on TSA screening…

    “Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) recently announced her opposition to the federal Transportation Security Administration’s full-body scanners due to worries that “naked pictures” of herself could somehow end up on the internet for the world to see after being screened.

    According to MinnPost, Bachamann told patrons at an Iowa coffee shop that she planned on opting out of such security procedures in order to avoid the possibility that such exposing images could end up online.”

    Let’s ignore the possibility of Aryan terrorists (aka, you know who) and how to profile them and worry about naked pictures of Michele Bachmann on the internet.

  67. The Anti-Defamation League published a report about a sector of people in the United States:

    “In this report, Anti-Defamation League documents a noticeable spike in activity by _________chapters across the country:

    Longstanding groups have increased their activity and experienced a rapid expansion in size.

    New groups have appeared, causing racial tensions in communities previously untroubled by racial issues. They hold anti-immigration rallies and recruitment drives and distribute racist literature with a new emphasis on the immigration issue, and Hispanics.

    _____groups have become more active in parts of the country that had not seen much activity in recent years, including the Great Plains States such as Iowa and Nebraska, and Mid-Atlantic states such as Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. The report includes a state-by-state listing of active groups.

    _________ has adopted new publicity tricks and has embraced the Internet as a means to spread anti-Semitism and racism.

    http://www.adl.org

    Since the ADL is such a fringe group I refrained from publishing the name of the organization of which they spoke as it’s probably not reliable.

  68. Although a howling of denial will come crashing down on the thread….here is the comment that opened the can of worms about the Ku Klux Klan…..

    “SadujTogracse says:
    June 27, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    Have there been some caucasion Christian males who have committed terrorist acts? Yes there have. Is that group the one committing a major portion of the terrorists acts against Americans and American interests? No they are not.”

    Now, I need to apologize for using the terminology that gets all the Rightees worked up and searching for a need to defend the KKK….but when somone such as The Sad gives appearances that their history teacher was either Palin or Bachmann (both have rather strange notions about history – Bachmann in particular seems to think the “Founding Fathers” stopped slavery)….well…..someone has to have the dirty job of cleaning up the mess.

    I volunteered.

  69. SadujTogracse says:

    Is that group the one committing a major portion of the terrorists acts against Americans and American interests? No they are not.”

    Kardnos believes that the KKK is as big of threat to Americans today as Islamic extremists. He doesn’t need a history teacher, just eyes and ears.

  70. SadujTogracse says:

    Kardnos wrote: ”
    By the way, did anyone notice Chris Christy referring to Bin Laden’s killing as “murder”, this weekend on Meet The Press?”

    Maybe he got confused for a second and thought Bin Laden was an Alaskan caribou, LMAO!!!!!

  71. When was the last terrorist act committed against Americans by a Muslim?

    When was the last terrorist act committed against Americans by a non-Muslim?

    Eyes and ears, you say?

    Go for it.

  72. Why would Chris Christy think that the killing of Bin Laden was “murder”?

    Is Christy a closet terrorist that is infiltrating American by taking emotional advantage of the most gullible of American citizenry?

    You know, he has a tremendous appeal with the Conservatives…..

  73. The common thread here is that Christy’s slip of the lip probably discloses his alliance with Al Queda.

    The same phenomena is surfacing with the KKK apologists.

  74. On May 2, 2011, the evening that President Obama announced the news of bin Laden’s death, Governor Christie released the following statement:

    “I want to commend President Obama’s Administration for its commitment and dedication to finally bringing Osama bin Laden to justice. As the former U.S. Attorney and now Governor of New Jersey, I speak for all the families of this state who have courageously endured the unspeakable and devastating consequences of terrorism. There is hardly a life that has gone untouched in New Jersey by the horrifying assault on American soil that took place on September 11th and today, after years of waiting, justice has finally been delivered. While our fight against terrorism continues, Osama bin Laden’s reign of terror has come to an end, sending a clear signal that even in the face of immeasurable horror, democracy and freedom continue to prevail.”

  75. karnos – are you or are you not in favor of some sort of profiling?

    we seem to know other items in that brain of yours but not the subject at hand.

  76. xx……

    Amazingly good when he has a script and a teleprompter…..

    Meanwhile without preparation yesterday, he slipped and called Bin Laden’s demise a ‘murder”.

    Maybe he should be one of the politicians that Congress should investigate for anti-American activities, as Michele Bachmann suggested….

  77. Absolutely in favor of profiling.

    If someone looks like Tim McVeigh – butch cut and tats……pull him aside.

    If someone is wearing a baseball cap with a rebel flag……jerk him….

    If someone is wearing a firearm (although such is legal)……pull him because you don’t know when he is going to use it illegally.

    In fact……pat down searches for all. I have nothing to hide and don’t mind coming to the airport four hours early…..

    The funniest part of profiling is that they say it’s not racial/cultural, but they know that a problem person is going to look like an Arab (even though the underwear bomber was a black African).

    So…tell me….what profile should they be seeking? Who is most likely to be a terrorist?

  78. Oh..and I agree with Michele Bachmann. I don’t want naked pictures of her on the internet.

  79. “So…tell me….what profile should they be seeking? Who is most likely to be a terrorist?”

    The people that stated in plain language that they hate America, seek to destroy America, kill Americans anytime / anywhere, that have engaged in actively making an numerous attempts to destroy America, that have murdered Americans, or attempted to murder Americans, that have set up organizations whose mission is to destroy American and kill Americans, actively seek individuals to join those organizations to destroy American and kill Americans…

    You know… those people…

    also, behavioral profiling dude…. looks are a very small part of the picture.

  80. theglovesRoff says:

    Did I just waste that much of my life reading these comments?

    Wow, I am glad I have other things to do.

    Bottom line, granny and kids aren’t going to blow up a plane. A follower of the religion of peace, most likely.

  81. Omega,
    What works better than racial profiling is behavioral profiling such as is used by El Al.
    Saduj,
    Twisting and Shouting, flipping and flopping.
    Except for 9/11 how many Americans have been killed IN AMERICA by Muslins.
    Any occupying army is fair game for those being occupied.

    Xx,
    And it’s only in America that we see such absurd behavior.
    Maybe if the FBI took lessons from El Al – But then they are THE AMERICAN FBI who took 16 years to find one of the informants.

    “Behavioral Profiling” high five man – something else you and I agree on.
    Another thing is that the KKK is not nearly as dangerous as all the private militias running around.
    Islander,
    If the US had not occupied two Muslim Countries we would not have lost almost 6,000 American lives, not to mention several hundred thousand natives.
    And now the Former Half Governor has called off her Family Vacation (Half way through) because SHE has been called to Jury Duty?
    GloveR,
    The person who actually carried the bomb on to the Pan Am Flight 103 (Lockerbie) was a blond blue-eyed female who thought she was smuggling drugs.
    Think she would have been spotted by Racial Profiling?

    xx – keep on holding and squeezing them.

  82. who are you and what have you done with the real xring???

    ps – what am I suppose to be holding on to and squeezing… round things, throats…???

  83. SadujTogracse says:

    “Except for 9/11 how many Americans have been killed IN AMERICA by Muslins.”

    Any occupying army is fair game for those being occupied.
    Do any of you ever read/watch/listen to the news? Or do you just go looking for your next talking point?

    7/8/2006 …A Muslim-American uses a young girl as hostage to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies (that was Seattle, remember THAT?).

    2/13/2007…A Muslim immigrant goes on a shooting rampage at a mall, targeting people buying Valentine’s Day cards at a gift shop and killing five.

    6/1/2009..A Muslim with ‘religious motives’ shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center.

    11/5/2009…A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.

    Want me to go on? Because I can go a lot longer. So twist, shout, and flop on that xring. But nevermind, it’s the KKK we have to worry about. Bunch of clueless leftist nimrods in here.

  84. alindasue says:

    Moving beyond the hyperbole…

    Much as I find the actions and philosophies of the KKK to be quite frightening, I’m not aware of any deaths in the last decade or so that can be DIRECTLY connected to the organization.

    There have been a number of white “Christian” homicidal nutcases in this country that have killed or attempted to kill Americans for “causes” ranging from “protecting” the world from imagined devils to “protecting babies” at abortion clinics, to getting even with the IRS and the ex-wife (like that guy who flew his plane into the office building).

    There have also been a number of Muslim homicidal nutcases in this country who have killed or attempted to kill Americans for similar causes. I won’t say those “Muslim terrorists” don’t exist.

    HOWEVER, does the number of Muslim homicidal nutcases really significantly outnumber the other homicidal nutcases? Not really. Either way, we are still just talking about a handful of people out of a very large population.

    Profiling, rather than just looking at the population as a whole, doesn’t solve anything. If you profile Middle-Eastern/African Muslims and don’t search the other groups, then of course your going to find that most of the people CAUGHT “conspiring” to terrorism will be from that group you were searching in. If you ignored all the Muslims and only profiled Tea Party members (or any other prominent group) for search, then you’ll find that the majority of the people CAUGHT “conspiring” to terrorism would be from that group. You can apply that logic to any group that is profiled. If you look only in that group, your going to find what you are seeking only in that group.

    Profiling doesn’t work because it makes your focus too narrow blinds you to the other nutcases that don’t quite fit “the profile”.

  85. The members of the KKK do not want to kill Americans, they wanted to terrorize a group that are black or assisted blacks to achieve equal rights in the US. I believe a case can be made that blacks were legitimate Americans much less human in their eyes.

    “Christian” homicidal nutbags do not want to kill Americans, they have focused their sights on a group of people that engage in abortion activities.

    The IRS dude with the plane was just a dysfunctional nutbag. His problem with the IRS was specific and not part of a philosophy that believe the IRS and its collection authority are illegal, etc…

    None of the above are part of a group that have declared jihad on the entire United States of America nor its people simply because we are Americans.

    I agree we shouldn’t focus on a specific group to the EXCULSION of other groups. What we are looking for is not a specific religious based group, nor a member of a particular political party, nor a particular race or ethnicity… they are a group of individuals that have formed an affiliation of other individuals that are twisting the doctrine of a religion and are predominately from a region of the world population by a particular group of people.

    Are the members of this violent group predominately have roots from the Middle west – yep
    Are the members of this violent group predominately followers of Islam – yep
    Are the members of this violent group predominately twisting the religion of Islam to justify their violent acts – yep, you betcha

    The first two are not a problem nor the issue… it is the third group that we need to focus our attention on to proactively find individuals that intend to do us harm. Profiling is just a tool in what I hope is a large law enforcement toolbox.

  86. SadujTogracse says:

    xx98411, well said!

  87. “xx98411 says:
    June 28, 2011 at 7:10 am
    The members of the KKK do not want to kill Americans, they wanted to terrorize a group that are black or assisted blacks to achieve equal rights in the US. I believe a case can be made that blacks were legitimate Americans much less human in their eyes.

    “Christian” homicidal nutbags do not want to kill Americans, they have focused their sights on a group of people that engage in abortion activities.

    Well….since I fall into both categories, I’m really glad you are not concerned

    Then of course the person that stalks me from site to site chimes in approval:

    SadujTogracse says:
    June 28, 2011 at 7:26 am
    xx98411, well said!

    How comforting!!! I guess those of us that support equal rights will just have to put up with knowing that the groups that want us dead don’t want Americans dead as long as they agree with them…..

  88. SadujTogracse says:

    Yeah because Islamic extremists don’t want you dead do they? (eyeroll). But if Kard feels the KKK is some big threat to him there is nothing I can do about that. Irrational fear of something that happened decades ago to rational fear of something that is occurring now. We all know what the biggest threat is, only those who are honest with themselves will admit it.

  89. The Sad listed four anecdotal cases, one of which has been determined by the US military to be a case of mental health issues and not terrorism.

    Now if anecdotal evidence permits an entire class of people to be segregated before travel, consider the number of gun owners that have been involved in “accidental shootings” (Dick Cheney for one). Can we trust them?

    It’s amazing how the KKK has terrorized Americans for over a century and someone would applaud this statement “The members of the KKK do not want to kill Americans” and then turn around and use anedoctal examples of why Muslims (remember they are not predominately Middle Eastern) should be racially profiled.

  90. Roncella says:

    XX98 Your post above says it all, well done.

    KARDNOS, Re-read xx98’s post above and try harder to comprehend, read it real slowly and think about what your actually reading at the same time.

  91. “I believe a case can be made that blacks were legitimate Americans much less human in their eyes.”

    I’d like xx to explain this comment.

  92. aislander says:

    Someone is arguing that passing spring showers constitute the same threat as a tsunami…

  93. Roncella…..you got so embarrassed by that lady on the hemp thread that you are now going to give it a try here?

    Gladly, Mr Comprehension.

    Explain this comment:

    “I believe a case can be made that blacks were legitimate Americans much less human in their eyes.”

  94. aislander – someone is coming out of the cellar after a tornado saying “at least the wind ain’t blowin’….”

  95. Let’s try going back to the letter. (what a concept, huh?)

    “People, mostly Muslims, are wanting to harm their enemies.”

    Mostly Muslims want to hurt their enemy? What do American soldiers want to do with their enemy…..play cribbage?????

    Now, beyond that simplicity…..the majority of Muslim in the world are not the folks from Saudi Arabia (yes…..THOSE Muslims) that attacked the US on 9/11/01. Black africans are Muslim and don’t dress as the Saudis. Indonesians make up over 15% of the worlds Muslims, thus the largest Muslim population to one country. There are Muslims in China. Some Russians are Muslim. 89% of Bangladeshis are Muslim. 2,454,000 Americans are Muslim (probably lumped in with the “blacks were legitimate Americans much less human in their eyes.”).

    Where does the profiling start? Maybe with Congressman Keith Ellison, although he doesn’t wear a turban, that I’ve seen.

  96. SadujTogracse says:

    “The Sad listed four anecdotal cases, one of which has been determined by the US military to be a case of mental health issues and not terrorism.”

    Oh I’ve got many, many more Kard (as I stated in that post, which you again conveniently left out). I just didn’t want to take up the entire thread with those cases. They are not anecdotal, they are documented actual events. I guess the shooting at the Jewish center was just anecdotal, tell that to the victims. But you may be right about the mental health issue…..a mentally ill man yelling praise to Allah, I guess becoming an Islamic extremist can do that to a person.

  97. According to military records, the man charged in the Fort Hood killings displayed mental imbalance long before his actions.

    As to his “praise to Allah”, I would call it insanity, much like the Christian woman that knew God told her to kill her children.

  98. “There is a race war against whites. But our people – my white brothers and sisters – will stay committed to a non-violent resolution. That resolution must consist of solidarity in white communities around the world. The hatred for our children and their future is growing and is being fueled every single day. Stay firm in your convictions. Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a war torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way – law and order – love of family – love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization. There is a war to destroy these things. Pray that our people see the error of their ways and regain a sense of loyalty. Repent America! Be faithful my fellow believers. ”

    Sound familiar?

  99. The Sad claims to have a lot more adecdotal examples.

    There. Do you feel better?

  100. Just so there is no futher confusion:

    “Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote.”

  101. Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir.

    A killing in a church. By someone that was supposedly following God’s orders. Someone who threatened others that tried to detain him and said there would be more killings.

    OK…let’s start the profile so that we know who to check at airports….

    “In the six months before Roeder’s arrest, he said he had worked for an airport shuttle service, a party-rental shop, a convenience store and a property management enterprise.

    Caucasian. Over 50 years old.

    So we need to profile white males, over 50 that have worked for airport shuttle services and convenience stores?

  102. “I believe a case can be made that blacks were legitimate Americans much less human in their eyes.”

    actually I left out a word… edited just for you karnos…

    “I believe the wacko, nutbags belonging to the KKK could make a case that blacks were not legitimate Americans, and because they (KKK members) are warp, brain magot infested douchebags, they could even believe that blacks were not even human beings in their eyes but animals that were beneath all of their “kind” (whatever inbred manifestation that is), instead of being part of the wonderful populace of this planet Earth”

    better….?

  103. that being said…

    I am more concerned about Islamic terrorist than the KKK.

  104. karnos all you are doing is pointing to bad behavior in an effort to obfuscate the fact the a group of individuals are loosely working together in an effort to destroy America and kill Americans as a whole….

    they even want to kill KKK members and those wacky “Christians”

    wow, they are really pissed off at this country

  105. Again for xx….

    “”There is a race war against whites. But our people – my white brothers and sisters – will stay committed to a non-violent resolution. That resolution must consist of solidarity in white communities around the world. The hatred for our children and their future is growing and is being fueled every single day. Stay firm in your convictions. Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a war torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way – law and order – love of family – love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization. There is a war to destroy these things. Pray that our people see the error of their ways and regain a sense of loyalty. Repent America! Be faithful my fellow believers. ”

    Not a whole lot of difference in rhetoric between those that fear Muslims because of the actions of a minority and the…..well….you know….

  106. “xx98411 says:
    June 28, 2011 at 9:41 am
    karnos all you are doing is pointing to bad behavior in an effort to obfuscate the fact the a group of individuals are loosely working together in an effort to destroy America and kill Americans as a whole….”

    And all you are doing is painting with a broad brush to further the fear and xenophobia in America.

  107. SadujTogracse says:

    “And all you are doing is painting with a broad brush to further the fear and xenophobia in America.”

    That’s an incorrect statement. Unlike yourself who DOES paint Christians with a broad brush at every attempt, I realize it’s the EXTREME and RADICAL Muslims that are the problem, not all of them. That’s why if you look back in every one of my posts I either use the word extremist or radical to identify the problem we are dealing with.

  108. karnow – your 9:53 post… yes an indivudal said that and probably believes that feces… again that group of individuals are less of a current threat that the terrorists that are misusing Islam as a justification for jihad.

    less of a threat… get it!

    for your next post – what broad brush? I have said it is those that are misusing a religon as an excuse for jihad…. it is a relatively small group here in the good olde USA.

    if it makes you feel better, the wacky, murderous Christian population is relatively small also…

    feel better???

  109. “extremist” “radical”

    it really is a small, specific population karnos

    feel better???

  110. aislander says:

    SadujTogracse: It is completely obvious that Islamic terrorism and non-Islamic terrorism are not even remotely comparable in terms of scale, so the question becomes: why is it SO important to some people to obfuscate that obvious fact? I don’t want to psychoanalyze anyone, but it seems that there is some pathology at work in the mind of someone who either wants to excuse atrocities or wishes to tar his cultural fellows (by implication, ALL of us) as being the same as our enemies…

  111. xx…..I will re-ask the question….

    Where do we start to profile? Which Muslim sect from which country?

    If you have a Hindu man in line wearing a turban, do you start with him?

    You avoid the reality of the challenge and just try to make a rather weak argument with fear motivated rhetoric.

  112. Oh…xx…remember when you justified the “dog” incident with my grandkids and their grandmother?

    I neglected to tell you that they are dark skinned (my grandaughter could probably pass for Arabic), in comparison to a Nothern European caucasian.

    You claimed “the dog must have detected something”. Since there were no drugs, the dog detected NOTHING.

    This is a great example of how you go out of your way to create an issue when the truth is that TSA was WAY out of bounds.

    Now, if it were a caucasian person wearing Depends, you seem to be sympathetic to their complaint.

  113. Of course, those are aged (as if 9/11 isn’t) so they don’t count.

  114. There is more…

    HOMELAND SECURITY NEWSWIRE

    A new report found that the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009; in 2010 twenty American Muslims were arrested for terrorism, down from 2009′s peak of forty-seven; in 2010 there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims compared to the ten Muslim Americans arrested for domestic plots; the report supports the argument that fears of domestic radicalization are exaggerated, and was released after the American woman calling herself “Jihad Jane” pled guilty to recruiting terrorists to kill a Swedish cartoonist; Representative Peter King is preparing for domestic radicalization hearings in the House’s Homeland Security committee

    There’s no shortage of non-Muslim terrorist organizations

    A new report found that the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009. It also revealed that more non-Muslim Americans were involved in terrorist plots than Muslim Americans.

    The study, conducted by the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University, showed that last year twenty American Muslims had been arrested on charges of terrorism, down sharply from 2009′s peak of forty-seven.The spike in 2009, which has raised fears of increasing domestic radicalization, was largely an aberration due to the arrest of a group of seventeen Somali-Americans who had joined al-Shabaab in Somalia.

    The number of plots by Muslim Americans against domestic targets dropped from eighteen in 2009 to ten in 2010.

    Last year there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims including Joseph Stack who crashed an airplane into an IRS building in Texas.

    David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center, said that the study, “puts into perspective the threat presented by domestic radicalization of Muslim Americans.”

    He adds, “Americans should take note that these crimes are being perpetrated by a handful of people whose actions are denounced and rejected by virtually all the Muslims living in the United States.”

  115. aislander says:

    SadujTogracse: The Times Square bomber was asked, how he, as a US citizen who had sworn loyalty to America could have done what he had done. He replied “You are my enemy: I lied.” So…how valid are protestations of outrage at acts of violence?

    On a completely unrelated topic, there is a concept embraced by the radical left called, “lying for justice.” As my friend jimm might say: kooky…

  116. “Where do we start to profile?”

    we are repeating ourselves… from a previous post…

    The people that stated in plain language that they hate America, seek to destroy America, kill Americans anytime / anywhere, that have engaged in actively making an numerous attempts to destroy America, that have murdered Americans, or attempted to murder Americans, that have set up organizations whose mission is to destroy American and kill Americans, actively seek individuals to join those organizations to destroy American and kill Americans…

    You know… those people…

  117. “Where do we start to profile? Which Muslim sect from which country?

    If you have a Hindu man in line wearing a turban, do you start with him?”

    If this is your idea of where to start as a premise then I would suggest that law enforcement is not your cup of tea… you don’t start with a group based on race, religion, etc… you start with the group that believes in a philosophy… in this case the group that wants to destroy America and kill Americans…

    you know, those people…. and they are necessarily Muslims though a group with Islamic roots has declared jihad against America and Americans and even acted on the declarations.

    The turban dude… anything in his actions are consistent with those that have been found to be terrorist?

    When he talks to you does he state he hates America? Does he tell you that if you weren’t so sympathetic he would kill you but will setlle for any true blue American. Does he want to buy a fully automatic machine type gun and doesn’t have nor will obtain a Class III license? Is he looking to buy a large quantity of fertilizer but lives in an apartment and tells you he hates gardening?

    Not any one of these things mean that he is a terrorist, but you know what Big Sis’ says… if you see something… say something.

  118. “You claimed “the dog must have detected something”. Since there were no drugs, the dog detected NOTHING.
    This is a great example of how you go out of your way to create an issue when the truth is that TSA was WAY out of bounds.
    Now, if it were a caucasian person wearing Depends, you seem to be sympathetic to their complaint.”

    Karnos – one more time…

    The dog may have detected something… again may have… I also made reference to TSA credibility issues right about now… that being said if you think they lied to justify a search then report the incident. Please I will actually support you in that effort.

    Dogs do false detect…. It happens… stop please…

    Again, out of bounds… report the incident…

    You compared the dog, an alert, the search to the Depends incident… sorry not even close to equivalence.

  119. BlaineCGarver says:

    Most of you are getting it…..Don’t give a group a pass because you’re afraid of offending them, or incurring the wrath of the ACLU, or the OhBummer Robots.

  120. “Americans should take note that these crimes are being perpetrated by a handful of people whose actions are denounced and rejected by virtually all the Muslims living in the United States.”

    At least one thing is credible from your cut/paste…

    Still doesn’t mean a real, current threat doesn’t exist…

    Vigilance sir, vigilance…

  121. “Profiling works”

    Yes, yes it does but only for the terrorists.
    If we let them know who we are looking at, then the solution is to not be that type.
    We profile for for evil scary brown people (which is what this is about make no mistake) then send in blond, white guys….easy.
    Profile for evil scary brown men, send in old ladies, problem solved.

    Yes profiling works, for terrorists and the racists that fear them.

  122. “you start with the group that believes in a philosophy”

    How do you identify them in a line at an airport?

  123. “aislander says:
    June 28, 2011 at 10:49 am
    SadujTogracse: The Times Square bomber was asked, how he, as a US citizen who had sworn loyalty to America could have done what he had done. He replied “You are my enemy: I lied.” So…how valid are protestations of outrage at acts of violence?

    On a completely unrelated topic, there is a concept embraced by the radical left called, “lying for justice.” As my friend jimm might say: kooky…

    About as “kooky” as Tim McVeigh or David Koresh…….

  124. “Does he want to buy a fully automatic machine type gun and doesn’t have nor will obtain a Class III license?”

    There is an entire class of people that will tell you there is nothing wrong with the above. It’s “an American right”.

    Oh…did I fail to mention they are ‘good white Christians”???????

  125. A lot of diversionary nonsense going on here.

    Terrorism is an interesting term. Of COURSE there are people who attempt to use fear to control others…this is the heart of terrorism. Some may be white, some black, some of this or that religious persuasion.

    But the kind of terrorism that I think this letter-writer was addressing was the wel-known and firmly established terrorism grounded in one particular culture’s hatred for all things Western, particularly all things American.

    It is NOT unreasonable to be wary of people who may very well share that view. It’s just not.

    If thousands of people had been killed in abortion clinics by aging white women, it would NOT be unreasonable for me to be stopped if I was loitering around or showing undue interest in a local abortion clinic. If I were innocent, I would not be offended. If guilty, lives would be saved.

    What is so hard about understanding this?

  126. LarryFine says:

    “diversionary nonsense” … well stated.

  127. SadujTogracse says:

    “What is so hard about understanding this?”

    There is nothing difficult about it. Some people are just so stubborn, so blinded by their political ideology that they can’t understand the most simple concepts (I won’t mention any names).

    Now I’ll wait for the “voted 60% Republican” line to come out again!

  128. SadujTogracse says:

    Or was it 40%, not that it matters any.

  129. “How do you identify them in a line at an airport?”

    You don’t via a philosophy but you can via a behavior… (really karnos, you can’t see that difference)

    “Oh…did I fail to mention they are ‘good white Christians”???????”

    No you didn’t fail to say that, this is your version of what is a lame attempt at a “gotcha”

    The same principles and questions apply… they are not a threat until they themselves exhibit behavior that broadcasts a threat… applies to turban wearing person, “good white Christians” and even brown skin people with Ricardo Matoban accents…

    Karnos – its like your fighting using absolutes and exceptions to the general premise. If you are looking for absolutes, there are none.

    Life is risky… fighting terrorism is not foolproof. But when the enemy tells in plain language that you are an evil of this world, you are a cancer and they then state they will use any means necessary to destroy you, your country and your people… how much easier can they make it… They have self-identified…

  130. I agree, well said sozo…

  131. “Does he want to buy a fully automatic machine type gun and doesn’t have nor will obtain a Class III license?”

    There is an entire class of people that will tell you there is nothing wrong with the above. It’s “an American right”.

    on a second read… buying a gun capable of firing fully automatic is indeed a right, not necessarily just an American right but by virtue of a right to defense of self, of family and of country.

    That being said, we have, as a nation decided that specific right – fully automatic firearms – is heavily regulated. And yes, it is against the law to purchase or attempt to purchase a fully automatic firearm without meeting numerous restrictions to do so.

    the “extremist’ and “radicals” in Seattle wanted and I believe, attempted to purchase fully automatic firearms to engage in good olde fashion mass murder. their motives were jihad….

    when the nice young jihadist were talking to a video camcorder, there were engaging in the good olde fashion past time of using the First Amendment to tell all who would listen what a crappy country they believe we live in….

    when they attempted to misuse the Second Amendment that is when the under the protection of the Fourth Amendment an investigation occurred. When enough evidence was found to warrant arrest they, I am sure were glad that the Fifth Amendment was available to them.

    During their arraignment I am sure they were also glad for the Eight Amendment but being the losers that they are they had little assets to make any bail set.

    Hopefully they will just plead guilty and save us the time and expense of a trial but then again if not then the Sixth Amendment is available to them.

    I am sure they are thankful to Allah that they attempted to commit jihad in the United States of America and not some other country where they would be less than thankful right about now.

    The system somehow identified who these individuals were, what their intentions were, the resources they were attempting to obtain…. Their behavior, rooted in a belief, and engaging in criminal behavior, gave them all away.

  132. aislander says:

    SomeNOS is perfecting the art of the non sequitur…

  133. Xx,
    Holding and squeezing = straight shooting = straight talk.

  134. The nice young jihadist was born in Oregon, raised in California and knows the United States’ Conservative bent on the 2nd Amendment. He is going to ram it right down the throats of the NRA and they won’t say a word about it.

    Automatic weapons for all terrorists. Just leave the turban at home.

  135. SadujTogracse says:

    Yeah because without a law stopping them they would not be able to acquire firearms. Because we all know convicted felons never get guns, neither do gang members under 18. They can’t because there are laws against those things. Of course the “shoe bomber” had 10 ounces of C-4 explosive in his shoe, last I checked that was also illegal.

    This is “reasoning” in the world of Kardnos.

  136. karnos – the Second Amendment is not a conservative amendment, it is an amendment to protect ALL Americans and codify OUR rights as Americans.

    It is disappointing when criminals abuse those Amendments, it is worst when an American cheer leads for an abuse of those same Amendments.

    I am really sad for you karnos…

  137. “… perfecting the art of the non sequitur… ”

    without a doubt aislander, without a doubt…

  138. Sozo – I’m assuming that you feel that the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII was the correct thing to do then?

  139. LarryFine says:

    Based on your expressed opinion of Jews and Israel bB, (following your lame assumption) shall we assume you feel the holocaust was the correct thing to do ?

  140. “xx98411 says:
    June 28, 2011 at 9:10 pm
    karnos – the Second Amendment is not a conservative amendment, it is an amendment to protect ALL Americans and codify OUR rights as Americans.

    It is disappointing when criminals abuse those Amendments, it is worst when an American cheer leads for an abuse of those same Amendments.

    I am really sad for you karnos…”

    This is the strawman response I was seeking. First, there is no “abuse” of the “right to purchase arms” at gun shows, according to the gun enthusiasts and NRA members. Now that a known terrorist who is an American citizen (but wears a turban) says something about it, the Conservatives (not the Liberals) are up in arms about “abuse of the 2nd Amendment”.

    This is but one more way that the Conservative write the Constitution as they go, all the while claiming it to be a static document.. If this man were wearing a flag on his lapel and a John Deere cap and making the same statement, there would be no talk about “abuse of the 2nd Amendment”.

    As to my alleged cheerleading, as usual, your mind reading act isn’t working too well. If there is anything I support about this man’s actions it is that maybe it will force the people of the United States to take a more sober look at their fixation with guns and gun ownership and the misinterpretation of the original 2nd Amendment for political purposes.

    Thanks xx…..you’ve proven what I have said all along. You manipulate the issue as well as any Conservative I’ve ever seen.

    As to the Conservative outrage of the actions of this American citizen, what can I say but “you bought it, you know own it”.

    Maybe the boys and their toys will have to admit that gun show purchases are not the best idea for all Americans.

    Let’s hear the NRA speak to this. They are amazingly quiet on the subject.

  141. Maybe aislander would like to address why an American with a turban can’t purchase guns at a gun show while an American without one can.

    I find the non-sequitor to be lobbing fireballs from the cheap seats.

    It’s OK, aislander. You can participate in the dialog as opposed to just insults.

  142. This whole episode reminds me of the Starbucks open carry controversy when the Conservatives tried to convince me that they would support open carry for a black male, with a ballcap on backwards, wearing all red and baggy pants, throwing gang signs.

    Uh huh.

  143. This is the strawman response I was seeking. First, there is no “abuse” of the “right to purchase arms” at gun shows, according to the gun enthusiasts and NRA members. Now that a known terrorist who is an American citizen (but wears a turban) says something about it, the Conservatives (not the Liberals) are up in arms about “abuse of the 2nd Amendment”.

    First – if you mean Adam Gadahn… they say it is Gadahn you are speaking of. Considering the posting source I am not making any assumptions unless I state that in my post. When I responded to the original post I was speaking in general not of a specific individual. If you want to have a discussion and the person you refer to is important to that conversation then please be specific so we are on the same page.

    That being said, my post stands as is and considering this post… I am sad for you karnos

    Second – GADAHN, as an American citizen, IS abusing the intent of the Second Amendment by encouraging individuals to abuse the system, purchase firearms with the singular expressed intent to murder your fellow citizens… to murder me, to murder you, to murder our families!!! Is this not the biggest duh! to you.

    Third – Gadahn is manipulating individuals to abuse the freedoms that we enjoy as American Citizens… Bad enough when a “foreigner” does it but an American citizen… WHY ARE YOU NOT UP IN ARMS ABOUT THIS KARNOS!?!?!?

    Fourth – GADAN has been charged with treason. He is on the FBI Wanted list. Is he really the hero you want to use to make a point?

    No, check that… I am really, really sad for you karnos.

  144. “SadujTogracse says:
    June 28, 2011 at 8:32 pm
    Yeah because without a law stopping them they would not be able to acquire firearms. Because we all know convicted felons never get guns, neither do gang members under 18. They can’t because there are laws against those things. Of course the “shoe bomber” had 10 ounces of C-4 explosive in his shoe, last I checked that was also illegal.”

    Then don’t whine when a man in a turban points out how easy his cohorts can purchase arms in the US. If you think that more weapons on the street is the answer to weapons on the street……you probably think that the answer to the drug problem in America is more drugs.

    The Sadreasoning of The Sad

  145. “Second – GADAHN, as an American citizen, IS abusing the intent of the Second Amendment by encouraging individuals to abuse the system, purchase firearms with the singular expressed intent to murder your fellow citizens… to murder me, to murder you, to murder our families!!! Is this not the biggest duh! to you.

    QUOTE HIM.

  146. When militias encourage the purchase of guns for the purpose of killing Americans, are they abusing the Second Amendment? (remember THE GOVERNMENT IS American)

    Funny…this subject hasn’t come up until a man wearing a turban said something.

  147. That “blacks were not legitimate Americans, much less human” was a common belief since 1619 when the first black slaves were brought into Jamestown, Virginia.

    PS” Pilgrims arrived in 1620.

    S_T & xx98
    The abuse is in not closing the gun show loophole that allows anyone to buy any firearm WITHOUT A BACKGROIND CHECK or even having to fill out the proper forms.

  148. SadujTogracse says:

    “If you think that more weapons on the street is the answer to weapons on the street.”.. blah blah

    I never said that, but nice spin! I am saying that more laws won’t stop people like that who are focused like a laser on doing harm to others. You know what can? Selective and informed PROFILING. THAT’S the point of this letter.

    Oh and you wouldn’t know the intent of the 2nd Amendment if it bit you on your behind. Your past and present statements show how totally clueless you are regarding the subject.

  149. “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms,” says Al Qaeda. “You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”

    Try facts and not hyperbole

  150. SadujTogracse says:

    “The abuse is in not closing the gun show loophole that allows anyone to buy any firearm WITHOUT A BACKGROIND CHECK or even having to fill out the proper forms.”

    False statement. Anyone cannot buy any firearm without a background check at a gun show or anywhere else. Get educated before posting please.

  151. SadujTogracse says:

    “You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”

    Another lie, one cannot buy a fully automatic assault rifle at a gun show or anywhere else without the proper license from the ATF and a background check. Get educated before posting please. But I see Kardnos takes the word of some anonymous Al Qaeda operative as fact, surprising even for him!

  152. “QUOTE HIM.”

    you just did… DA…

    “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms,” says Al Qaeda. “You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”

  153. SadujTogracse says:

    “To purchase or transfer a fully automatic firearm legally, U.S. citizens must pay a $200 transfer tax, submit a full set of fingerprints on FBI Form FD-258, obtain certification provided by a chief law enforcement officer (“CLEO”: the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor), and obtain final approval from the BATF on a Form 4 transfer of NFA registration to the new owner.[28][29]No fully automatic firearms (machine guns) recovered in Mexico have been traced to the United States.[30]”

    Facts, they are stubborn things huh Kardnos?

  154. “xring says:
    June 29, 2011 at 8:39 am
    That “blacks were not legitimate Americans, much less human” was a common belief since 1619 when the first black slaves were brought into Jamestown, Virginia.

    PS” Pilgrims arrived in 1620.”

    AND…there was no “AMERICA” in 1620

  155. karnos with the race stuff again… what are you argueing for??? against??? about???

    Gadahn has nothing to do with race… what are you doing? You are just slinging again…

  156. “SadujTogracse says:
    June 29, 2011 at 8:50 am
    “To purchase or transfer a fully automatic firearm legally,”

    How many are purchased illegally at gun shows?

    FACTS ARE STUBBORN

  157. sadju is dead on…

    the gun show lie is just that – a lie….

    “fully automatic firearms” that is just pure ignorance…

    race and turbans ave nothing to do with this…

    karnos – why ar eyou quoting a person on the FBI wanted list? what point are you trying despertly to make?

  158. “How many are purchased illegally at gun shows?”

    none…

    Facts are stubborn aren’t they!

  159. New York City Investigates Arizona Gun Show
    By MARC LACEY
    Published: January 30, 2011
    PHOENIX – Weeks after a shooting left six dead and 13 injured in Tucson, New York City sent undercover investigators to an Arizona gun show and found instances in which private sellers sold semiautomatic pistols even after buyers said they probably could not pass background checks, city officials said.

    FACTS ARE STUBBORN, aren’t they?

  160. SadujTogracse says:

    “How many are purchased illegally at gun shows?”

    Ohhh so because a few unsavory people may illegally sell guns at gun shows that means we need a new law to stop them from already breaking the law? Nice logic that is. Nevermind that those people could do the exact same illegal thing at their home, or most anywhere else. But because it’s at a gun show that makes it worse.

    While I only have attended a couple of gun shows in my life I can tell you that ANYONE who bought a firearm had to first have a background check done no matter if they were buying from a dealer or a private seller. The gun show loophole is as mythical as a unicorn.

  161. bBoy…you presume wrong bBoy, which is something you should probably guard against in the future.

    Did I say anything to suggest rounding up all Muslims? Of course I didn’t.

    That said, it annoys me that people are so quick to demonize those who were behind the Japanese camps. Hindsight shows us it was extreme and even cruel, but being confused and wary of folks from Japan after Pearl Harbor was logical. If you actually put yourself back in that place and time, do you think might be concerned about your Japanese neighbor? It’s easy to judge others using hindsight.

    Anyway, today, with the ability to do background checks and find network connections, etc., it should be much easier to check on those behaving suspiciously within the Muslim community…the ones who’ve shown a loyalty to the jihad extremist POV. And again, if I were a decent, peace-loving Muslim and got a more thorough going-over before boarding a plane, I think I’d be angrier with Muslim whack jobs than I wouldy with the TSA.

    (As a Christian, when Christian folks behave badly I get angry with THEM for making it crappy for the rest of us trying to exemplify what real Christianity is about. Make sense?)

    I’m amused by the fact that so many argue against “profiling” when it’s done socially by folks all the time. I know of an instance where cops were called to clear out a train station because a group of people were, GASP! singning hymns and praying together.

    Imagine you are at the mall and a group of GI’s come in wearing fatigues. Do you suppose anybody in the mall makes any presumptions about the troops’ values, politics, etc.? (We once had a friend out of work for a year who refused to apply to work as a civilian a JLMB because of his extreme prejudices about the military. I stopped feeling bad about his joblessness when I learned this.)

    Or imagine seeing a group of old white men in dark suits and ties all seated together around a big shiny mahogany table. Anybody gonna make any presumptions about them maybe being representatives of the Evil Demon, Corporate America.

    In The Dismantlilng of America, David Mamet writes about the irony of rich film-makers producing anti-Capitalist movies (Michael Moore). He says they do it because anti-American, anti-Establishment sells. People like seeing movies where “The Man” gets his.

    Let’s see.. social profiling….women in long cotton skirts, little white bonnets and sensible shoes escorted by men sporting chest-length beards and wearing big broad-brimmed black hats and suspenders. presumptions about them?

    If I were a terrorist, I think I’d don Amish garb and carry my bombs in a horse-drawn buggy. But that’s just me.

  162. “Selective and informed PROFILING. THAT’S the point of this letter.”

    So…let’s start by profiling people who have been involved in accidental shootings, as they’ve already demonstrated they can’t be trusted.

    Dick Cheney would be a good example for openers…..

  163. “In The Dismantlilng of America, David Mamet writes about the irony of rich film-makers producing anti-Capitalist movies (Michael Moore). He says they do it because anti-American, anti-Establishment sells. People like seeing movies where “The Man” gets his.”

    Ohhhhhh geeeez…..LOL

    The first step in fascism is to control those that might speak the truth about the country……

  164. Speaking of “anti-American”…..what was the little get together at the Koch Vail Compound for Republican Governors over the weekend?

    Marching orders for the next assault on middle class Americans?

  165. “Imagine you are at the mall and a group of GI’s come in wearing fatigues. Do you suppose anybody in the mall makes any presumptions about the troops’ values, politics, etc.? (We once had a friend out of work for a year who refused to apply to work as a civilian a JLMB because of his extreme prejudices about the military. I stopped feeling bad about his joblessness when I learned this.)”

    and yet….we’ve had murders of innocent citizens, torture, rampid drug abuse, involvement with underaged girls and drugs on base and a whole list of other “un-American” behavior by GIs.

    Don’t judge a book by its cover….

  166. “”Imagine you are at the mall and a group of GI’s come in wearing fatigues. Do you suppose anybody in the mall makes any presumptions about the troops’ values, politics, etc.?

    Sinclair Lewis’ quote comes to mind…..

    “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”

  167. you make no sense karnos… you are just slinging… and as is your pattern, you will just move on leaving behind strawman, factually incorrect posts…

    you are not helping karnos, you are not helping…

  168. A few unsavory……

    Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you’re likely to hear this hard boiled response: “They steal them.” But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners’ homes and cars. “Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes,” Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

    In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on “Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California,” many straw purchases are conducted in an openly “suggestive” manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

    The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel’s own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that’s where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

    According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that “of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime’ of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity.”

  169. SadujTogracse says:

    I’d be more worried about the frequent meetings at the Soros compound than at the Koch one anyday!

  170. “xx98411 says:
    June 29, 2011 at 9:16 am
    you make no sense karnos… you are just slinging… and as is your pattern, you will just move on leaving behind strawman, factually incorrect posts..”

    SOP for xx. When confronted by factual statements from sources on the internet, attack the commenter and accuse them of exactly what xx does….”sling fecal matter”

    Oh…and as to me quoting the source……I can’t seem to find anything in his quote about “killing Americans and you and me…..” WHICH WAS YOUR STATEMENT.

  171. “purchase firearms with the singular expressed intent to murder your fellow citizens… to murder me, to murder you, to murder our families!!!”

    Nowhere in his quote is this context. You made it up.

    Slinging lies along with fecal matter….

  172. SadujTogracse says:

    Yeah an ATF report, because they are so honest and ethical. Apparantly Kardnos has never heard of “Project Gunrunner”. So we are to take the word of an agency that stood by and watched thousands of guns cross the border into Mexico? Talk about a straw purchase!

  173. aislander says:

    re: The Second Amendment. Is it sheer coincidence that the agendas of the left in America and Al Qaeda coincide? They have always used similar tactics; have similar attitudes regarding the United States and Israel; both have an affinity toward socialistic solutions; both will lie to achieve their ends…

  174. SadujTogracse says:

    Oh and by the way straw purchases of firearms are already illegal yet Kardnos wants a new law to stop people who are already breaking the law.

  175. About Gadahn – once again what you provided was a small part of the video that he made. If a person completed 8th grade, understands the English language and listen to the video of Gadahn, it was clear as day that he was communicating purchasing firearms to kill Americans… clear as day.

    About factual posts – you are factually incorrect, Sadju provided some context. And with the 8th grade reading level I refer people to BATF Form 4, BATF Form 4473, NFA and the Gun Control Act (1968). You, sir are factually incorrect, period.

    About Straw Purchases – they are illegal and done by people who are engaging in a criminal act. Our own government has sanction the act. Fact – I refer to the Fast & Furious operation. How can you condone criminal acts and yet turn a blind eye to the actions of our own government?

  176. “ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation’s 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking. Cracking down on these dealers continues to be a priority for the ATF.”

    From what appears to be the same source… your attempt to paint an issue with a broad brush and make it more than it is. As always a smaller percentage of people screwing it up for the rest of us karnos… US… you and me…

    Don’t let the actions of a few screw it up for the rest of us. They are the problem, not you nor I. We are following the rules.

  177. “Oh…and as to me quoting the source……I can’t seem to find anything in his quote about “killing Americans and you and me…..” WHICH WAS YOUR STATEMENT.”

    on a second read… karnos, you are not this dumb, please stop acting like it…

  178. Roncella says:

    Anyone, Yes Anyone, with even a modest amount of intelligence and common sense should be able to see and understand after all thats happened before and after 9-11, that there are without a doubt alot of violent, angry, hateful, extreme Muslims who want to destroy both israel and the United States.

  179. “Roncella says:
    June 29, 2011 at 9:56 am
    Anyone, Yes Anyone, with even a modest amount of intelligence and common sense should be able to see and understand

    Self exclusion?

  180. re: The Second Amendment. Is it sheer coincidence that the agendas of the left in America and Al Qaeda coincide? They have always used similar tactics; have similar attitudes regarding the United States and Israel; both have an affinity toward socialistic solutions; both will lie to achieve their ends…

    That was about the sleaziest post you have ever made.

  181. “8% of the nation’s 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.

    Almost 10,000 dealers sell handguns that are used in crimes.

    No big deal, huh? Who is being “dumb”??????

  182. “it was clear as day that he was communicating purchasing firearms to kill Americans… clear as day.”

    EXCEPT…no where, in the video, did he say such a thing.

    “xx is planning to bomb a Planned Parenthood clinic. He didn’t say so but I can read his mind.” FAIR?

    How about “he was letting other terrorists know how easy it is to get firearms in the United States for WHATEVER purpose”? They might want to use them on Israel.

    Your clairvoyance sucks.

  183. ok, I stand corrected karnos, you are…

  184. “How about “he was letting other terrorists know how easy it is to get firearms in the United States for WHATEVER purpose”? They might want to use them on Israel.”

    why would a person buy a gun in the US, run the risk of it being discovered transporting it back to the Middle East to kill Isrealis?

    I am sure you can find a few AK’s lying about in Eygpt, Syria, Lebanon, etc… and they will throw in a free meal before crossing the border…

    jeeze dude…

  185. SadujTogracse says:

    Any gun dealer who is participating in illegal activity needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Still not seeing how adding a new law would stop them from participating in behavior that is already illegal.

  186. “No big deal, huh? Who is being “dumb”?????? ”

    is that what you really think I said? jeeze dude, never said that, never implied that… got anything else

    referring to the article… no specific sources were provided for the statistics stated… “according to the ATF” is not a specific source

    which then leads to – what data from that reference – ATF – are they referring to

    The article is ripe with charges of criminal acts but no data relative to a total sample is provided

    “According to a 1994 study…” – really is that the best you got. Current data from the FBI and BATF show that not only is violent crime where a gun is used is down to the lowest levels in decades and the trend continues to be lower. Firearm purchases also are at the highest in record. Millions upon millions of Americans enjoy the shooting sports… Muslims, “white” Christians and even brown folk with funny accents.

    Oh look I provided no specific data source… go look it up yourself, you need the work.

    “a few unsavory” yes karnos, it is a few unsavory characters…

  187. “Any gun dealer who is participating in illegal activity needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Still not seeing how adding a new law would stop them from participating in behavior that is already illegal.”

    bingo sadju, bingo…

  188. aislander says:

    So…beerBoy: where am I wrong? Exactly..?

  189. “aislander says:
    June 29, 2011 at 9:28 am
    re: The Second Amendment. Is it sheer coincidence that the agendas of the left in America and Al Qaeda coincide? They have always used similar tactics; have similar attitudes regarding the United States and Israel; both have an affinity toward socialistic solutions; both will lie to achieve their ends…

    ….uh….it seems that Al Qaeda agrees with the Right on the 2nd Amendment, loving the idea of the United States being virtual wish book of weapons…..

    Try that adult reading course…..

  190. “a few unsavory” yes karnos, it is a few unsavory characters… ”

    Pardon me if I don’t think that 10,000 weapons dealers is “a few”……

  191. aislander says:

    Should I have written, “the revolutionary left?” Fine, then: the revolutionary left. You guys all see yourselves as iconoclasts, anyway: Che Guevara, don’t you know–if Che were a fat, balding, social misfit rather than a cowardly, murderous, thug…

  192. SadujTogracse says:

    Wanting weapons to carry out mass murder against innocent civilians is not in accord with the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. But then again this is the same person who thought John Adams was pro-slavery. A history book is very much required for Kardnos!

  193. aislander says:

    LarryFine: I suppose I need to lay out an exact road map for lefties to follow, so they can keep up. Show of hands: who here believes Al Qaeda’s enthusiasm for the Second Amendment is a persuasive endorsement of the right to keep and bear arms?

    A more credible motivation for that statement is to add to the left’s arsenal of arguments AGAINST an armed citizenry, helping lefties disarm the nation, making Islamists’ attacks less risky…

  194. karnos – argue a position instead of slinging.

    you are all over the place and attack isolated comments instead of providing a case for something. as far as I can tell you making alot of noise but it sure ain’t music…

  195. alright karnos i have a question…

    sadju has made a statement and I will borrow the premise…

    it appears to me that you have no position on the fact that a person, charged with treason, wanted by the FBI wants to distort our Bill of Rights as he also distorts his own religon… who is Adam Gandahn to you and why do you appear to advocate for his position? if it is not cheerleading then what is it?

  196. LarryFine says:

    “…iconoclasts, anyway: Che Guevara, don’t you know–if Che were a fat, balding, social misfit rather than a cowardly, murderous, thug… ”
    ..
    “who here believes Al Qaeda’s enthusiasm for the Second Amendment is a persuasive endorsement of the right to keep and bear arms?”

    Well stated as usual Ai.

  197. S_T,
    The simple truth is the 2nd Amendment is without a doubt an individual right.
    And you are totally mistaken about the gun show loop hole.

    People do buy all kinds of firearms at gun shows without breakground checks or any paper work.

    ‘more worried about soros than koch brothers’ – proof positive that you get your news solely form foxbat spews and entertainment.

    Islander,
    ‘agendas of the american left and al qaueda’ – when was the last time the American left wanted to kill Americans?

    ‘straw purchases’ are not illegal, selling to a person who is nor elgible to buy a firearm is illegal.

    ‘attempting straw purchases’ are the standard technique used by the ATF since 1968.

    “revolutionary left” as oppssed to ‘radical right wing Christian militias?

    XX et al – the point is that the gun show loop hole means it is not illegal to sell any firearm to any one so the dealers cannot be prosecuted.

  198. aislander – “Is it sheer coincidence that the agendas of the left in America and Al Qaeda coincide?”

    It appears that al qaeda is now the media arm of mayor bloomberg and his MAIG group. He is using the Gadahn video in an ad to plug the non-existent loophole.

    from CBS News New York:

    New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is continuing his crusade against illegal guns, now with a national TV ad.

    The ad urges Congress to plug loopholes allowing terrorists and criminals to buy firearms inside the U.S.

    The spot, produced by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, features a clip from an Al-Qaeda propaganda video and an American-born terrorist Azzam al-Amriki, aka Adam Gadahn.

    The narration says, “The latest Al-Qaeda plot instructs terrorists on how to buy guns in America.”

  199. aislander says:

    xring: Thanks for putting all those fish in the barrel for me. I shall now exercise my Second Amendment rights…

    xring wrote: “‘more worried about soros than koch brothers’ – proof positive that you get your news solely form foxbat spews and entertainment.” That’s not a refutation, just a slogan, xring…

    xring wrote: “when was the last time the American left wanted to kill Americans?” What time is it now? As for the last time lefties ACTUALLY tried, that was probably in the ’70s, with the Weather Underground. When was that Brinks robbery? Then there was WTO, but I don’t believe anybody WAS killed. Nowadays you have radical Muslims to do that for you.

    xring wrote: “‘revolutionary left’ as oppssed to ‘radical right wing Christian militias?” WTO? ELF? ALF? Anarchists? Weathermen? SLA? Unions?

  200. “People do buy all kinds of firearms at gun shows without breakground checks or any paper work.”

    Just so that we are clear, at the gun shows sponsored by the Washington Arms Collectors, the general public cannot buy nor sell a gun under any condition. Members, who have gone through a background check, can buy and sell a gun only to another member.

    Straw purchase – it is not a legal term so let’s go with intent… you cannot buy a gun and transfer that gun to another person who you know cannot otherwise purchase that gun him/herself.

    ATF – not only do they sanction “Straw purchases” but they also let the proceeds of the sale cross not only state lines but clear into the grand country of Mexico.

  201. Adam Gadahn was born Adam Pearlman. He is Jewish. There is a distinct possibility that he is involved in false flag operations.

    Mayor Bloomberg was a Democrat, Republican and now and Independent. He is socially liberal, supporting abortion rights, gay marriage, gun control, and amnesty for illegal immigrants, for example. On economics, foreign, and domestic issues, he tends to be conservative. He is mayor of NY and, therefore, really not important to any part of the country outside of NY.

    Bloomberg’s ad, making use of fake al Qaeda Gadahn’s stuff, was stupid. Aislander’s attempt to make Bloomberg’s action stand for Liberals in general even though Bloomberg is neither liberal nor conservative and is the mayor of one city is just another example of aislander’s attempt to demonize the Left with overreaching, foggy logic.

  202. Gadahn / False Flag – with enough alcohol in my system, I think I could have come up with that possibility… I’m just gonna let that one just lay there and ferment…

    Bloomberg – he is also the head honcho of an anti-gun organization that spends a lot of time and money trying to gut the Second Amendment. He is not the innocent, rational “independent” he is made out to be.

    The Ad – “fake” …too funny… I digress sorry…

    First – the Adam Qadahn video is considered a legitimate video. I am not sure what you mean by fake.

    Second – Bloomberg and his group (liberal enough) are anti-gun and want to ban guns. They have a fetish about the imaginary gun show loophole and are attempting to tie the Terrorist Watch List and background checks. A list that you have no criteria nor due process to find out if you’re on much less get off.

    Third – it’s an ad attempting to communicate a message. All the ad agency is trying to do is create a tie in one’s mind from Adam Qadahn/Al Queuda/Terrorist to the imaginary gun show loophole to terrorist… some people are stupid enough to fall for it.

  203. Another hole in aislander’s logic:

    Mayor Bloomberg is Jewish and has, like every American politician testing the waters for national office, demonstrated his solidarity with Israel.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/05/nyregion/05mayor.html

    To try to connect the dots between Pearlman aka Gadahn, Bloomberg and supposed anti-semitic Liberal thought is aislander-bizarre.

  204. LarryFine says:

    You didn’t answer my question from earlier bB. How do you feel about the holocast? (I was dovetailing off your assumption about Japanese internment camps)

  205. SadujTogracse says:

    “‘straw purchases’ are not illegal, selling to a person who is nor elgible to buy a firearm is illegal.”

    WRONG “A straw purchase is when a buyer uses an intermediary (the “straw man”) to purchase a firearm(s) from a licensed firearms dealer. The purpose is to hide the true identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm(s). Straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the actual possessor. Frequently, the actual purchaser is a prohibited person under federal law.”

    And just like you were WRONG about straw purchases, you’re WRONG about the so called gun show loophole.

  206. aislander says:

    I wrote NOTHING about Mayor Bloomberg, beerBoy, but there are many American Jews who put their liberalism ahead of their Jewishness….

  207. How do you feel about the holocast?

    It was a horrendous tragedy. It is horrific that there are some who attempt to deny that it happened – just as it is horrific that the Turks still deny what they did to the Armenians.

    I also think that it is horrific that Zionist use the holocaust to justify the horrific things they are doing to the Palestinians.

  208. To try to connect the dots between Pearlman aka Gadahn, Bloomberg and supposed anti-semitic Liberal thought is aislander-bizarre.

    On a second read…

    beerboy – Bloomberg connected the dots for you… Bloomberg – a Jew; is using his organization – MAIG; to push a message – anti-gun; using a known violence promoting anti-Semitic as its media star…

    Though Bloomberg is a declared “independent” does being “socially liberal” count?

    At a bare minimum I tend to agree with aislander that Bloomberg is putting his liberalism ahead of his Jewishness…

    Aren’t there some principles that shouldn’t be compromised?

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