Letters to the Editor

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ECONOMY: This is progress?

Letter by Larry Killion, Tacoma on June 6, 2011 at 11:21 am with 110 Comments »
June 6, 2011 11:21 am

U.S. stocks fell last week, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its longest streak of losses since 2004, but there is more bad news.

The U.S. housing market passed a grim milestone in the first quarter of this year, posting a fall in house prices greater than that during the Great Depression. Barack  Obama’s recent comments make no mention of the disappointing jobs report or the fact that the unemployment rate ticked upward, and 39 percent more Americans are on food stamps since Obama took office.

China has dropped 97 percent of its holdings in U.S. Treasury bills sold to fund the nation’s debt. So how will we finance this $15 trillion federal debt now? Print more devalued money? Seriously, won’t that make things worse?

In a recent CNBC poll, 61 percent of Americans said they don’t expect to return to their respective pre-recession lifestyles until the spring of 2014, if ever. What do you think these things mean? Are we starting to wake up to the fact that our progressive politics is actually taking us backwards?

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  1. Had the GOP not blocked every effort to repair the damage they casued, we would be in a much better place right now.
    But then had the GOP not casued the crash with their ill concived policies in the first place……

  2. Oh yeah….it’s progressive politics, not the crash of 2008, two wars without funding and tax cuts for the rich…..

  3. Evil teachers
    Evil unions
    Evil Democrats
    Evil everyone/everything except the saviour republicans.

    Gosh, it’s so easy being a rightist, one doesn’t have to think at all, just repeat the above and you’re done!

  4. Clinton, the demoncraps and obumo OWN THIS RECESSION!

  5. Unfortunately, Obama is following right of center economics instead of learning from history. We have had decades of supply-side economics since Reaganomics took hold.

    Reducing taxes for the rich does not solve economic problems that are as severe as ours. Rewarding a small sector of the economy while putting a stranglehold on the majority of the economy by tightening money, eliminating middle class jobs and reducing infrastructure investment is a call for continued disaster.

    Demand-side economic theory says that if you have a thriving middle class with reasonable taxes for all, then the economy grows and jobs are produced. Its what got us out of the Great Depression and what Clinton worked a little bit to get the deficit down to nothing. However, Obama is doing everything by the old conservative handbook. His timidity in the face of Republican opposition should rightly be criticized.

    How many years must we suffer under far right economic theories that have shown for decades not to work.

  6. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    The shame and the reality in this letter is that it is a letter and not a headline or at least an AP story.

    If anyone wanted proof that most media outlets in this country is so biased to the left that even the brain dead out there can see it, the fact that you read this from a reader and not in the media is that proof.

    How much longer can the media prop up this empty suit they call a president? All economic data shows we are in a death sprial and until the media tells the truth and we fire obama things will not improve.

    obama is a failure but watch the media spin like crazy that he is the best president in history.

    For all of you that voted for him because you didn’t want to be called a racist, if you vote for him again you will be at risk of being called a fool.

  7. See what I mean?
    Being a rightist is easy!
    I did forget one,

    Evil media!

  8. commoncents says:

    Yes, there has been no mainstream articles about the foreclosure and resulting drop in housing prices. No one wrote about the difficulty in people obtaining credit for a period of time. The whole housing crisis was just sprung upon us by the letter writer who dared speak what the mainstream media will not.

    No one wrote about the Chinese moving money INTO ST Treasury during the first part of the recession and their 97% reduction is from ALL-TIME HIGHS!!! No one has written that their pullout is due to the failure of CONGRESS to reach agreement on the debt limit which will result in a reduction in our credit rating. I’ve never seen anything like this in mainstream media.

    Good thing we have the letter writer to point out that in times of recession that we have larger numbers of people who utilize social services otherwise I, and other readers of this letter, would have never figured it out. Who knew?

    Who knew that this was a jobless recovery and that the only people really making money instead of just treading water are the business owners and execs who are riding record profits and performance on the back of fewer workers using fear and scare tactics to get people to work longer hours rather than hiring more employees. Boy, I never would have known that if not for this letter writer.

    Curse you mainstream media!!!

  9. BigSwingingRichard says:

    Obama 2012 campaign Slogan: I make things worse, now vote for me again.

  10. concernedtacoma7 says:

    XTP (and your boy Kard) throw more blame then anyone on this site. Why not dispute the claims made by the letter with fact or professional opinions?

    The Bush excuse was used again in this thread. When does that end XTP? When will you tell Kard it is no longer valid. I will guess never since that would mean the democrats own this current mess. And pop quiz, who controls the purse in our system of government? And how long did your girl Pelosi have to submit a budget? Too busy destroying healthcare I guess to do her job.

    Read the following article and tell me that Obamacare is not a total failure and his way of spending my tax dollars is not criminal.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/why-hasnt-anyone-signed-up-for-the-high-risk-health-insurance-pools/239833

    Here is another one for you on how his policies are stopping business from hiring.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/06/obama_tunes_out_and_business_goes_on_hiring_strike_110094.html

    Stop whining. Educate and debate or you are just wasting everone’s time.

  11. PumainTacoma says:

    A former Hillary delegate, we can now say “Told You So.”

    Would you vote for Bush, Clinton if there was 9.3% unemployment (more like 15% ask the underemployed), gasoline at $4 a gallon, inflation, job stagnation after 4 years?

    I am no party liner and choose not to vote for an incumbent who owns these stats as his successes.

  12. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    I just got a tweet from Anthony Wiener. He said we can all “trust obama” and we can believe him when he tweets anything.

    But we now know he s t r e a c h e s the truth.

    Like all democrats, if their lips are moving they are lying.

    No more liberal post until AW resigns.

  13. sue1234 says:

    Larry. I guess you missed the FACTS. David Stockman, Reagan’s money man, said THE GOP DESTROYED THE ECONOMY.

    Stockman help create reaganomics.. so if he says the gop destroyed the economy SMART PEOPLE will believe him.

    You need the facts is is not progressive policies that harm our economy. You just have an induced pathological fear of the educated, progressive people.

  14. old_benjamin says:

    The guvment provided the gun, the banks loaded it, and the folks shot themselves in the head. End of story.

  15. KARDNOS says:

    ConfusedTacoman – when an atomic explosion happens, the nuclear waste takes years to go away. If you think Bush took his problems with him when he left office in 2009, you are not only confused, but naive to boot.

  16. KARDNOS says:

    Let’s talk about Anthony Weiner and the tweets so that no one thinks about the GOP running Congress and nothing is changing.

  17. KARDNOS says:

    From ConfusedTacoman’s RCP site…..

    “Barack Obama and the Democratic congressional supermajorities of 2009-10″

    Uh….please…tell us when there was a “super majority in the Senate of 2009″

    I’ve got the answer. The month of July. Franken was finally awarded his seat and Ted Kennedy hadn’t died yet. Some “super majority”.

    The RCP writer contributed an “opinion piece”. Nice that he has an opinion, now if he could just contribute facts the story would be different.

    I couldn’t help but notice the poll results from RCP right next to the story…..

    Job Approval Obama – 50%. Disapproval – 44% Difference -6%

    Next?

  18. Dispute the claims made?
    No, how abourt you back up the claims made?
    They are after all your talking points, spoon fed to you by your media.
    And besides, how many more times do they have to be debunked, refuted, and proven wrong?

    And another point, no one blame bush the lesser until you did.
    He was just the empty suit used by your party to screw you me and 99% of the nation out of as much money as they could.

    The real question is, why do you still support them?

  19. theglovesRoff says:

    And the hypocrisy abounds. Circle the wagons around Weiner. I recall reading a post from someone in the last month or two bringing up toe tapper Larry Craig. Seems that was a big deal to him. But Weinergate, let’s just ignore that. We need to protect those liberals.

    Today I heard excerpts from a Pelosi interview where she was asked about the time when she said since unemployment is at 5% (the number was between 5% and 6%) and gas is at $3 a gallon that Bush is a failure. The interviewer asked, so why doesn’t 10% unemployment and gas at $4 mean Obama is a failure?

    She pulled those wagons together and said that is the past, the American people want us to focus on now and the future. So why do the democrats keep blaming Bush?

  20. theglovesRoff says:

    So xtp, you claim you were screwed out of money. Was that other people’s money that you were expecting to receive? Maybe you thought Bush was going to fill your gas tank like people thought Obama was going to do?

    Because if you made money, you would have seen a decrease in your tax bill. So since you got screwed, I have to assume you are a government leach. Which explains the tone of everyone of your comments.

  21. truthbusterguy says:

    KARDNOS

    Stop reading the obummer polls at the dailykos and msnbc. Gallup say 41%. Get your facts right and stop looking at biased polls.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/147140/Obama-Job-Approval-Tying-Low.aspx

    your boy is going to lose. People vote against him every time they fill their tank or buy their food. obama is a massive failure and there is no defending him.

  22. theglovesRoff says:

    Now you are going to be called a racist truthbusterguy.

  23. aislander says:

    The ONE economic stimulus that lefties can point to as having “worked” is the one the Germans did during the Depression, otherwise none have ever been big enough to do the trick. So, we’re supposed to do MORE of what has never worked? Sounds like the definition of insanity. As for emulating Hitler’s stimulus: see “Liberal Fascism…”

  24. dallasow says:

    Truthbuster, you must have archived that Gallup Poll. Here is the latest, and KARDNOS correct.
    http://www.gallup.com

    Presidential Approval Ratings — Barack Obama
    Page: 12 Barack Obama Presidential Job Approval

    Barack Obama’s Daily Job Approval Trend

    Barack Obama’s Job Approval Average by Subgroup

    Barack Obama’s Most Recent Weekly Approval Rating Average
    50%

    (May 30-
    Jun 5, 2011)

    Barack Obama’s Term Average:
    51%

    Barack Obama’s High Point:
    69%

    (Jan 22-24, 2009)

    Barack Obama’s Low Point:
    41%

    (several times; most recent,
    Apr 13-15, 2011)

  25. Gloves,
    The Democrats are so into wagon circling that the House Democratic Leader has called for an ethics investigation.

    T-G_B
    Take at look at Concerned’s favorite site”

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/06/obama_tunes_out_and_business_goes_on_hiring_strike_110094.html

    Which shows Obama’s average approval rate is +6.5.

    Which means his average approval rating is 6.5 percent HIGHER than his average disapproval rating.

    Islander,
    The German trick was to turn the nation over to the NAZIS. Don’t think that option is on the table here.

  26. KARDNOS says:

    “theglovesRoff says:
    June 6, 2011 at 5:02 pm
    And the hypocrisy abounds. Circle the wagons around Weiner”

    Uh…no…Weiner is stupid. Now, can we talk about the Republicans wanting to destroy Medicare and 80% of Americans saying “NO!!!!!” ?

    I don’t care about Weiner turning himself into a mensroom joke. Nor Arnold, Nor the dude from the NY 26th District. Nor Wide Stance Larry. Nor Diaper Boy Vitter.

    I’d rather have Paul Ryan explain why balancing the debt in 75 years is such a super thing to do, since he and everyone in Congress will be dead by then….

  27. KARDNOS says:

    xring….wasn’t that a classic????

    Confused doesn’t know the difference between an opinion piece and a donut, but to have the poll right next to the piece was…..PRICELESS!!!!

  28. concernedtacoma7 says:

    If you go to the RCP home page, 3 approval poll stats are displayed. And “my favorite site”? While I do find it an interesting site, by posting a link it becomes my favorite?

    Funny how you ignore the content!

    Once again, you do not engage in thoughtful discussion, you or your boy kard.

  29. KARDNOS says:

    “truthbusterguy says:
    June 6, 2011 at 5:35 pm
    KARDNOS
    your boy is going to lose.”

    ::::envisions clowns falling out of a little car:::::::::

    “Ms Palin, the History teacher”?

    Man on Dog/Dogpeeonme Santorum?

    NewtTheGuyWhoDumpedWifeWithCancer? (They did vote for McCain)

    Michelle “Take the Farm Subsidy and Run” Bachman?

    Trump? nevermind….he already quit after being made a fool – long form.

    A half dozen other “nobody has hear of them”…..

    Which brings us to Mitt, who is already under attack by the Christian Right.

    Good luck.

    2012 will make McCain’s efforts look like a close race…..LMAO

    That “boy” as you call him, whipped that old man’s butt….seriously…….

  30. KARDNOS says:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

    From the same exact website that ConfusedTacoma posted

    Look at the yellow highlighted area, Confused. They tried to make it simple, even so that you could understand.

  31. KARDNOS says:

    Hey…Confused….are you, by any chance, related to Sarah Palin?

  32. KARDNOS says:

    Confused…..

    Your stooge, Sarah Palin, makes the same kind of excuses you do…..LOL

  33. KARDNOS says:

    Has anyone noticed that the American Flag is a field of blue with 50 stars and a field of red, divided by lines?

    Sort of tells you something about what’s to come in 2012.

  34. concernedtacoma7 says:

    KARD, you and your buddy xTP are not worth responding to. In the future I will ignore all of your uneducated, whiny, racist, socialist posts and rants. You are obviously a little kid or a bitter old man. Either way your opinions are worthless.

    But as final rebuttal, here is your hero…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

    Enjoy my tax dollars. Given your re-distribution desires I know you are another loser on the teet. Your time is almost up. Eventually the socialists will all go the way of your mouthpiece Weiner and America will move in the right direction.

  35. KARDNOS says:

    Don’t go away mad, just…….well…you know….

  36. aislander says:

    xring writes: “The German trick was to turn the nation over to the NAZIS. Don’t think that option is on the table here.”

    Still awaiting further developments…

  37. KARDNOS says:

    rebuttle?

    Is that when you buttle for a second time?

  38. Kardnos
    Not just priceless but worth a fist bump.
    Plus another one for ‘Educate and debate”;
    And a double bump for “ignore the content”

    C_T_7
    Actual there are 4 polls, both on the home page and the page your link goes to:

    Obama Job Approval, +6.5

    Congressional Job Approval, -48.6 (big disapproval)

    Generic Congressional Vote:
    Democratic 43.0
    Republican 42.8

    Direction of Country: -30.7 (means most think we are going in wrong direction, but does not indicate which track wrong one)

  39. The recession began in 2008, under Bush’s watch. Kind of like 9/11.

  40. SadujTogracse says:

    The recession began in 2008, under Bush’s watch. Kind of like 9/11.

    Uh in case you haven’t noticed, it’s halfway through 2011 now. Things were supposed to be getting better (you know all that hopey/changey stuff?) Unemployment is higher now than when Bush left office. Take responsibility much?

  41. LarryFine says:

    ’08 … after the dems took the house and senate… kooky.

  42. truthbusterguy says:

    Todays polls shows Obama leading five out of six potential Republican presidential rivals but in a dead heat with former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney.

    Among all Americans, Obama and Romney are tied at 47 percent each. Among registered voters, Romney is ahead 49 percent to 46 percent.

    obama going down in flames. Voter know they screwed up voting for him and won’t repeat their mistake again.

  43. I for one would like to know where the GOP solutions are. They’ve been inform control of the House for six months now, and we haven’t seen one single jobs bill. All we get are complaints about the Democrats. Step up, GOP. Let’s see your solution.

  44. “inform control” = “in firm control”

    Coffee hasn’t kicked in yet

  45. Never fear – Mitt will never get the nomination. His own party will see to that.

  46. Well I see the rightists are doing what they always do, lie, make stuff up, insult, pout, whine and cry, point fingers of blame where they do not belong and then lie some more, then attempt to deflect away from the facts and the truth with childish nonsense.

    Way to go, rightists.
    Germany? Are you kidding me?

    Mitts a loser and a Mormon, he will never be President. Even his own party hates him!

  47. “I for one would like to know where the GOP solutions are.”

    They have no solutions, they don’t want the country or the economy to improve. If it does, they lose. For the right\conservatives\teahaddists\rightists it’s party and power first, country last.

    If they should offer a ‘solution’ it will be more of what got us to this point in the first place. Tax cuts for the rich, robbery of the middle class and more war.
    Redistributing the middle class wealth to the top is thier only plan.

  48. aislander says:

    That’s right: I forgot about the HUGE economic stimulus during the Reagan administration that turned around the Carter recession/depression. Oh, wait: those were tax cuts…

    So what OTHER massive government stimulus has ever worked. Besides Hitler’s, I mean. That one HAS been cited by lefties as a rationale for trying the same thing…

    So, since government stimulus DOESN’T WORK, and that’s what’s been tried by the Obama admin, Obama now owns THIS recession/depression…

  49. steilacoomtaxpayer says:

    Wow, the recesion is still going strong? The real issues are actually how are young people going to pay for their life and are jobs going to come back? This is not a “cash flow” issue, people are going to be badly hurt, some already have. Fine, some of us escaped the blast, but many did not. This society needs people at work. Quit sitting on the $$ and put people on payroll. After that, stop loaning 400 grand to people who make 50 thou.

  50. aislander says:

    steilacoomtaxpayer: Talk to just about any small-business person and he will tell you why there is no hiring going on: uncertainty. No one knows what this insane government will do next. Plus, there are new requirements, regulations, and costs that kick in with each increment of increase in staffing levels. Ever wonder why so many small businesses have just UNDER, say, 500 employees? THAT’S why…

  51. Roncella says:

    All Elections have consequences. When President Obama won his race to become President most all Americans were hoping for the best and feeling good to have finally crossed the color barrier and elected the first black President.

    However President Obama has proved his far far left beliefs and policies just don’t work. Even after having total control of Congress and passing huge spending bills including ObamaCare which is bankrupt before it starts in a little over two years he and Nancy pelosi, Reid, have successfully ruined the American Economy in his first term as President.

    Most Americans largest investment is RealEstate, their homes and businesses. With them the anchor thats makes everything else work is sunk. President Obama has not worked to correct the housing RealEstate mess and work closely with small business owners to get the economy moving again.

    Thats what elections are for to correct mistates and make corrections in policy that need to be made. Lets all be more aware before we vote in the 2012 elections and vote for folks with a business skill that will benefit all of us and our families and our futures.

  52. Roncella – thanks for your demonstration of the lack of understanding market value and impact.

  53. Gee thanks for the talking points roncella, that worn out tripe is just what lemmings need.

  54. “’08 … after the dems took the house and senate”

    What is your cause and effect?

  55. aislander forgets that saint ronnie tripled the debt and out spent every President before him combined and it still took 5 years for the Nixon economy to show any improvment.

    Of couse we know now that the tiny tax cuts had nothing to do with it.
    But the rightists will never admit to the truth will they?

  56. “aislander says:
    June 7, 2011 at 9:04 am
    That’s right: I forgot about the HUGE economic stimulus during the Reagan administration that turned around the Carter recession/depression. Oh, wait: those were tax cuts…”

    Reagan signed the largest tax increase in history…..keep trying.

    Factcheck – A tax increase in 1942 boosted federal revenues by 71%, for example, as the US geared up for war after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Measured in inflation-adjusted 1992 dollars, Roosevelt’s wartime increase amounted to $73 billion a year, while Clinton’s increase averaged $35 billion a year (average for the first two years.)

    The study said that inflation-adjusted “constant dollars” is probably only the second -best measure of the size of a tax increase. “The single best measure for most purposes is probably the revenue effect as a percentage of GDP.” That’s Gross Domestic Product, the way we gauge the size of the economy. Clinton’s tax increase isn’t the biggest by that “best” measure, either. In the period since 1968, the study said, “the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 was the biggest increase.” That was the tax increase signed by Ronald Reagan, rescinding some of the effects of his huge tax cut passed the year before.

  57. LarryFine says:

    ehill says:
    June 7, 2011 at 6:56 am
    I for one would like to know where the GOP solutions are. They’ve been inform control of the House for six months now…
    ….
    Ummm, after 5 years of democrat control of both houses it’ll take a little more than 6 months to undo everything they fouled up…

  58. aislander says:

    The tax increase that lefties love to impute to Reagan did not occur until 1986, by means of the AMT, which was a class-warfare trick that backfired on the middle class. The fact is that the 1981 tax cuts had a salutary effect on the economy AND on revenues. It is certainly possible to increase revenues–for a short time–by means of a tax increase, but those dollars are simply removed from the economy and taken by government, a true zero-sum game. As the GDP decreases, those revenue gains evaporate. Government does not create wealth: it simply seizes it…

  59. aislander says:

    By the way: how’s that stimulus working out? I’ll bet we’ll have to do MORE of what doesn’t work…I smell QE3 waiting in the wings…

  60. LOL!!
    The tax hike under saint ronnie really wasn’t a tax hike??
    Man, a guy really has to suspend reality to be a rightist don’t they?!

    Come on back to reality aislander, it’s worth the trip.

  61. LarryFine says:

    … so who was here the other day claiming Weiner was “hacked” ?

    … and like many a democrat before him… he refuses to resign.

  62. aislander says:

    …about that stimulus?

  63. aislander, just wait, Stimulus #3 will be coming soon. The dems need the infusion of money for the election in 2012. There’s nothing like a little “walking around money’ to get Obama’s supporters all fired up. I know that his sheep all believe that he can reach into his “stash” and help them out.

  64. aislander says:

    frosty: I’m just trying to get one of them to defend the concept and the practice of government economic stimulus, but they keep trying to change the subject.

  65. aislander says:

    ABC-Washington Post poll: Obama approval back down to 47%; 59% disapproval on economy; Republicans in Congress more trusted on economic issues than Obama; Romney beats Obama if election held today…

  66. aislander says:

    …and I wonder what Rasmussen says. After all Rasmussen was THE most accurate pollster in the 2008 election…

  67. KARDNOS says:

    “KARDNOS says:
    June 7, 2011 at 11:04 am

    xtp855 says:
    June 7, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Well, there goes one of LarryFine’s theories down the toilet

  68. Had the stimulous been allowed to be distributed instead of caving to the right, it would have worked much better than it did, but it did work.

    How are those tax cuts working?

    BTW, GOPmussen has always been a huge joke.

  69. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    June 7, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    …and I wonder what Rasmussen says. After all Rasmussen was THE most accurate pollster in the 2008 election… ”

    Oh gaaaaawwwd…not that tired old tripe again.

    Rasmussen’s self-claimed excellence is contrived and has been debunked many times over

    The Rasmussenites always forget 538.

  70. aislander says:

    Actually, Rasmussen has Obama slightly HIGHER than ABC-WashPost. I posed the question just to elicit the knee-jerk response. And aren’t there ALWAYS reasons that stimuli don’t work? “It wasn’t big enough!” “It wasn’t fast enough!” “It wasn’t timed just right!” “It wasn’t denominated in rubles!” Give us all a break.

  71. KARDNOS says:

    The stimulus didn’t work??????????

    Why did all those Republican governors take the money and use it and say what a great thing they did for their states????????

  72. How are those tax cuts working aislander?
    You know, the tax cuts that were supposed to stimulate the economy and made the ‘job creaters’ creat all those jobs?
    How are they working aislander?

  73. KARDNOS says:

    xtp…the tax cuts didn’t provide jobs for 10 years, so they extended them to see if it would work.

    Doing the same thing over and over…..

  74. aislander says:

    Actually, there have been NO income tax cuts for nearly a decade…and you haven’t shown any evidence that the stimulus did anything for the economy, merely that some governors were happy to have help keeping public employees employed, so that their union dues would keep rolling in. And I don’t believe that the majority of those governors were Republicans…

  75. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    June 7, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Actually, Rasmussen has Obama slightly HIGHER than ABC-WashPost. I posed the question just to elicit the knee-jerk response.”

    Uh huh….well….here is what I know about polls…they all have a “plus or minus” factor…..so I don’t get too worked up over it.

    What did the poll on November 4, 2008 say about Obama?

  76. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    June 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    Actually, there have been NO income tax cuts for nearly a decade…”

    The ones done 10 years ago were just extended. It didn’t work then and it ain’t working now……LMAO

  77. KARDNOS says:

    Let’s have some fun with this “polls” stuff….

    Let’s say Obama only has 40%……

    which one of the clowns falling out of the GOP 2012 little car has over 20%?

  78. KARDNOS says:

    Florida Power & Light won $200 million to install “smart” electric meters, devices that allow homes to monitor power use by the minute. The program is being rolled out first in South Florida.

    “aislander says:
    June 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    some governors were happy to have help keeping public employees employed,”

    HUH>>>>>>>>>>????????????

  79. aislander says:

    Normally, I wouldn’t engage directly, since there is no way of arguing with “special” people without appearing “special” oneself, but you must not have read the part of the poll that has Romney beating Obama…

  80. LarryFine says:

    Theory ? What would that be ? That someone wouldn’t be able to post under seperate monikers in less than a minute ? Heck, most of your long winded hackneyed posts are stacked up one after the other in minutes. Doesn’t prove anything… LOL.

  81. Again I ask, how about those tax cuts?
    are they working?
    Is trickel down working aislander?

    Or are you the only one that gets to ask questions?
    how about you show us what you’ve got and answer the question?
    Or are you like your buddys, all talk and nothing else?

  82. Islander,
    Reagan cut taxes once, and then raised them 11 times.
    Or have you forgotten Bush 1’s campaign slogan in 1988 –
    “Read my lips – no new taxes!”

    The other massive Government stimulus that worked – FDR and the Arsenal of Democracy.

    The small business people I talk to say they are not hiring because they are not selling.

    There are about 6 million small businesses in the US – 90% employ less that 20 people.

    http://askville.amazon.com/small-businesses-50-employees-United-States/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2973287

  83. aislander says:

    xring writes: “The other massive Government stimulus that worked – FDR and the Arsenal of Democracy…”

    …which must be why the Great Depression was over waaay faster for the rest of the industrialized world (and was called “Great” only in America), and was BY FAR the longest-lasting economic contraction we’ve ever experienced…

  84. Roncella says:

    xring, I would gladly trade President Ronald Reagan for President Obama in a min. Yes I would take his unemployment, housing, banking, gallon of gas price, and all the rest of Reagans figures, they sure look good now. God Help Us All…..

    Just to remind those who voted for Obama, How are you liking the unemployment, house failures, realestate failures, gallon gas prices, and all the rest of his, smart campaign slogans of Yes We Can, Hope and Change, Oh Yea, are you happy now ???

  85. LarryFine says:

    KARDNOS says:
    June 7, 2011 at 1:50 pm
    “KARDNOS says:
    June 7, 2011 at 11:04 am

    xtp855 says:
    June 7, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Well, there goes one of LarryFine’s theories down the toilet

  86. LarryFine says:

    Speaking of toilets… someone must have jiggled the handle ;)

  87. LarryFine says:

    … because it stopped running…

  88. LarryFine says:

    ;) Thanks for playing…

  89. KARDNOS says:

    “the part of the poll that has Romney beating Obama…”

    Romney has the core of the GOP against him – the Evangelical Christians.

    He has to get the nomination, much less be able to consider beating Obama.

    Great polling source, aislander. You avoid dealing direct with me to avoid being taken to the woodshed

  90. KARDNOS says:

    Larry…is your real last name “Palin”?

  91. LarryFine says:

    Looks like you were taken to the wood shed with the lame attempt to cover your multiple “personas”.

  92. LarryFine says:

    LOL… is your last name “Weiner” ?

  93. yabetchya says:

    People I give you the MOST NIMBLE FINGERED poster on here.. 3 post in 2 minutes…2 at the same time. WOW

    KARDNOS says:
    June 6, 2011 at 8:31 pm
    From the same exact website that ConfusedTacoma posted

    Look at the yellow highlighted area, Confused. They tried to make it simple, even so that you could understand.

    KARDNOS says:
    June 6, 2011 at 8:31 pm
    Hey…Confused….are you, by any chance, related to Sarah Palin?

    KARDNOS says:
    June 6, 2011 at 8:32 pm
    Confused…..

    Your stooge, Sarah Palin, makes the same kind of excuses you do…..LOL

  94. LarryFine says:

    … the “theory” stands. thanks for the contribution yabetcha. ;)

  95. alindasue says:

    Mr. Killion said, “U.S. stocks fell last week, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its longest streak of losses since 2004…”

    I would point out to the Obama is worse than Bush crowd that “longest streak of losses since 2004″ indicates that there was a longer steak of losses during President Bush’s term – but that’s irrelevant.

    The problem is that our economy over the past several decades is based on little but speculation. It’s a balloon with a slow leak. Every time it starts to deflate, they “stimulate” it with cash infusions and/or tax breaks. That’s doesn’t change the fact that it still just held aloft by “hot air” like stock prices, credit/borrowing, and “rising home values”. Where is the real value in any of that?

    A house should be a place to live, not an “investment”. A mortgage should be for financing that place to live, not “paying off” credit card debt or financing a vacation. The value of a dollar should be based on real buying power, not “consumer confidence” or the vagaries of the stock market. We need to get away from the “hot air” way of thinking or we are going to keep bouncing from “real estate bubble” to “real estate bubble” and “stock market crash” to “stock market crash”.

    It is this economy based on speculation and debt that keeps our economy from long term stabilization and allows such things as a “jobless recovery” to happen. Eventually the economy is going to be pumped up until the “slow leak” gets bigger or the “balloon” is going to burst. Before that happens, we need to build a foundation of real value for our economy or it’s going to keep falling with no place to land.

    I doesn’t matter which party is in office, the problem is not going to be fixed within the term of one president. It’s going to require a gradual change of attitude in our society, steering it away from speculative values, starting from the individual on up (just as all great changes are made).

    A hundred years or so ago, financing something as trivial as a vacation or a wedding on credit would have been unthinkable. We need to reach that point again.

    (I know this goes against the current grain of society and will be seen as “unrealistic” by many, but we’ve already seen that doing more and more of the same isn’t working…)

  96. aislander says:

    alindasue writes: “A hundred years or so ago, financing something as trivial as a vacation or a wedding on credit would have been unthinkable. We need to reach that point again.”

    THAT is a conservative sentiment, alindsue. I knew there was a reason I thought you had possibilities. The current run (recently interrupted) of the stock markets is the result of a lot of fiat money being forced into the economy and has nothing at all to do with economic performance. When the Fed stops creating it, the Dow will fall flat, but, as the Dow has risen, the value of the dollar has fallen–another zero-sum game. Like raising taxes…

  97. yabetchya says:

    KARDNOS says:
    June 7, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    Larry…is your real last name “Palin”?

    Oh I think the better insult is if his last name was “Hill”!

  98. Larry,
    In the last 5 years Dems controlled the Houses for 4 years, and never had enough votes in the Senate to override Obstructacon filibusters.

    Ensign did not resign. Vetter did not resign.

    Islander
    Where are the Jobs?

    Why were defunding Planned Parenthood and NPR more important than JOBS?

    In short, the GOP has done nothing to help but have done a lot to help destroy the American Middle and Working Classes.

    FYI most of the Governors were Rpots.

    In Germany the depression ended in 1933 when the NAZIS took over and began rearming the Reich.

    “Running On Credit” Just the way Bush 2 ran the country. Does that make him a Liberal?

    Romney may currently have a edge, BUT he will never be the Republican candidate. His own party will see to that.

    Frosty,
    Reality check. Rpots control the House, and have enough members in the Senate to block any bill they want.

    Roncella,
    And I would take Reagan over Bush the Worst in an New York minute.

    Or for that matter any of the current crop of Goofs On Parade.

    Where are the JOBS?
    In fact where is the JOBS bill?
    Gone overseas HA HA HA.

  99. LarryFine says:

    xring starts up the whine factory early… be careful pedaling backward…

    Kooky how when the shoe is on the other foot… huh ?

  100. letsworkitout says:

    Liberal, conservative, do you really think either has the answers? I don’t believe in either side of the spectrum as they stick to their agendas regardless of the carnage that is going on. They don’t care about the people, they care about being re-elected.

    Besides, the economy isn’t going to be fixed through fiscal policy, so why all the yelling here? Why are the arguing about the parties and ideals when neither matters in this context?

  101. aislander says:

    letworkitout: Fiscal policy IS a huge part of our economic problem: the government is diverting too many resources from the private sector. But, you are correct in that it is not the only problem. Monetary policy, which is destroying the value of the dollar bears equal culpability, as does regulatory policy, the straitjacket on the economy. The common thread is that these are all problems caused and imposed by government. Resolve these problems, as well as the huge burden on the economy resulting from litigation, and the economy will soar.

    Makes more sense than believing in the magical ability of stimulus packages to actually work if only they are done just right, despite overwhelming empirical evidence that they don’t work at all, and, in fact, do much more harm than good…

  102. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    June 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm
    alindasue writes: “A hundred years or so ago, financing something as trivial as a vacation or a wedding on credit would have been unthinkable. We need to reach that point again.”

    THAT is a conservative sentiment, alindsue. I knew there was a reason I thought you had possibilities. The current run (recently interrupted) of the stock markets is the result of a lot of fiat money being forced into the economy and has nothing at all to do with economic performance. When the Fed stops creating it, the Dow will fall flat, but, as the Dow has risen, the value of the dollar has fallen–another zero-sum game. Like raising taxes… ”

    Always the voice of reason, alindasue.

    Rather than call it a “Conservative sentiment”, I’ll be the one to remind you and the rest of the thread that banks and their friends the credit card industry spend billions of dollars reminding you to “don’t leave home without it”, etc….. Take a look at the major sponsors of The Olympics every four years. That ain’t a cheapo vacation…..

    Now I’m not too ignorant to know that banking isn’t a liberal institution, thus the “Conservative” message is “spend now and pay us more later”.

    Sort of the way the country was run from 2003 to 2009…..

  103. letsworkitout says:

    Fiscal policy doesn’t fix an economy period. Give me one example in the last 100 years or so.

  104. aislander says:

    alindasue: I merely would would like those virtues you admire in individuals to be practiced by our government. After all if our government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed, we cannot give government the latitude to break from those principles if we cannot do so ourselves. We can’t GIVE something we don’t HAVE…

  105. aislander says:

    Sure, letsworkitout: Look at the fiscal policies of Harding and Coolidge following the depression of 1920-1921. Pay particular attention to the sharpness of the contraction, and the speed with which the economy rebounded…

  106. letsworkitout says:

    Hmmm…well that was largely due to the influx of soldiers returning combined with labor union issues, and farming commodity prices rising.

    The depression of 1920-21 was largely a market correction, hence the short nature. I’m sure the policies helped, but they are not the reason for the turn around. Just as with Roosevelt, the policies helped but were not the turning point nor the main reason.

  107. aislander says:

    Sure, the depression was CAUSED by those things, but correcting those issues was not a possibility. Fiscal policy was really the only lever that was pulled, and it resulted in a decade of prosperity. At the end of that decade, another “market correction” occurred, but the response (first by Hoover, and then by Roosevelt) was quite different. The result of that was a contraction that really didn’t end until the advent of WWII. The Dow didn’t regain its former heights until the mid-1950s.

    How about this compromise: fiscal policy may not be able to fix an economy, but it certainly can destroy one?

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