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ISRAEL: U.S. support is in both countries’ national interest

Letter by JOSH R. BASSON, SEATTLE on May 27, 2011 at 11:21 am with 77 Comments »
May 27, 2011 11:21 am

Re: “U.S. shouldn’t meddle in other countries’ affairs” (letter, 5-26).

The writer was right on the mark.

I believe President Obama’s speech on the Israel-Palestinian conflict was a serious blunder. Instead of urging Abbas to directly negotiate with Israel, he dictates to Israel, on behalf of the Palestinian Arabs, that the borders should be based on the indefensible pre-1967 borders.
By doing so he emboldened the Palestinian terrorists whose declared aim is to destroy Israel.

I’m glad to know that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had a rousing reception by members of Congress when he addressed them. This reflects the overwhelming support Israel enjoys from the vast majority of the American people.

Israel is the only reliable democratic ally the U.S. has in the Middle East. It must stand firm in not making any more one-sided concessions that will endanger its existence. The U.S. defense of Israel is in both countries’ national interest.

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  1. Explain how support of Israel is in US strategic interests…..

    he United States aid relationship with Israel is unlike any other in the world, or indeed, like any in history. In sheer volume, the amount of aid is the most generous foreign aid program ever between any two countries, totalling $77.726 billion through fiscal year 1996.

    No country has ever received as much Congressionally-mandated aid as has Israel, including South Vietnam. Indeed, Israel receives more U.S. aid per capita annually than the total annual GNP per capita of several Arab states, including Egypt, Mauritania, Sudan, Yemen and Morocco.

    http://www.eroj.org/Palestina/zunes.htm

    What is perhaps even more unusual is that Israel, like its benefactor, is an advanced, industrialized, technologically-sophisticated country, as well as a major arms exporter.

  2. America’s ties to Israel are not based primarily on U.S. strategic interests. At the best of times, an Israeli government that pursues the path to peace provides some intelligence, some minor advances in military technology, and a potential source of stabilizing military power that could help Arab states like Jordan. Even then, however, any actual Israeli military intervention in an Arab state could prove as destabilizing as beneficial.
    [....]
    Israel’s government should act on the understanding that the long-term nature of the U.S.-Israel strategic relationship will depend on Israel clearly and actively seeking peace with the Palestinians—the kind of peace that is in Israel’s own strategic interests.

    http://csis.org/publication/israel-strategic-liability

  3. Yet another foreign policy expert. We have so many around here.

  4. BlaineCGarver says:

    The enemies of our enemies are our friends. This works both directions with the Jews. Bless ‘em all. I’d man a foxhole for them if I could.

  5. 77 billion aid to Israel until 1996, and circa 120 billion to date. When you include the interest the U.S. Treasurey pays to borrow the 120 billion aid to Israel over all these years, the total cost is several multiples of the 120 billion.

    Meanwhile, the claim is that we are destroying our country by deficit spending on our own infrastructure, education, a clean environment, and accessible health care of our own citizens.

  6. “The enemies of our enemies are our friends.”

    And our enemies are our enemies because of our friends.

  7. alindasue says:

    “Israel is the only reliable democratic ally the U.S. has in the Middle East. ”

    I wonder if Israel would be as “reliable” if they weren’t getting its regular allowance from the US government.

    “It must stand firm in not making any more one-sided concessions that will endanger its existence.”

    Israel must be willing to go to peace talks willing to negotiate in good faith. If they expect the Palestinians to make all the concessions or if they agree to a cease fire while still bulldozing Palestinian homes, they are not negotiating in good faith. That’s essentially what President Obama, and several presidents before him, have told the Israeli government to start doing.

    “The U.S. defense of Israel is in both countries’ national interest.”

    The US defense of Israel is in Israel’s best national interest.

    Given the amity it causes between us and the rest of the middle east, our financial support to Israel doesn’t really serve our own national interests at all – at least not from a safety and defense standpoint. We could solve a lot of our “defense” issues if we pulled our support out of Israel, but we don’t. However, the reason we don’t is purely out of friendship, not because it’s in our national interest to do so.

    I think Prime Minister Netanyahu would be wise to consider that.

  8. It’s staggering the number of fox viewers that didn’t listen, LISTEN to the Presidents speach the other day yet they seem to think, after being told what to think, that they are the worlds experts on not only the speah they didn’t hear and on the PM speah wich said the exact samething.

    Just amazing.

  9. Roncella says:

    Josh, Your so right, President Obama stepped right into a bee hive with his speech pressuring Israel to reverse course and move its borders to the 1967
    borders.

    I remember when President Obama was running for President and attacked President Bush over and over again about interfering with other Countries and their Government Policies.

    Now he calls for the leader of Libya to step down, and other mid-east keaders to step down.

    Then Obama leaves for an extended vacation as he tours Europe, Poland and other Countries.

    Who is in charge and working hard on all the Problems the Country is facing Now ?

    You guessed it Joe (foot in mouth) Biden the V.P. who released the location of his own top secret security command center only days after becoming the V.P.

    Neither the dems. in the Congress or Obama have yet to come up with a serious budget proposal that corrects even some of the problems facing the Country.

    Run Sarah Run, Run Mitt Run, Run Gov.Perry Run, Run Herman Cain Run, any one of you would be a Huge improvement over whats running the Government right now……..

  10. “pressuring Israel to reverse course and move its borders to the 1967
    borders.”

    Yet another foxbot prove he didn’t listen to the speach, or understand a word of it. Only knows what he has been told.

  11. BlaineCGarver says:

    Well, XTP, that’s the message I got from the BBC World News the day after the speech….So, if that’s wrong, everyone got it wrong except you…. LOL

  12. So true Roncella.

  13. What the President said was to start with the ’67 borders and negotiate a mutually agreed on settlement.

  14. Roncella. Do you have any idea that when you say “Josh, Your so right,” that the word your is supposed to be you’re, as in, you are? Is that so hard for you to comprehend?

  15. LarryFine says:

    “Explain how support of Israel is in US strategic interests…..”

    Freedom and democracy… yes, we know… a foreign concept to antisemite bigots.

  16. LarryFine says:

    Netanyahu ATE Soetoro’s lunch !

  17. oooh….another taunt of antisemitism. You are quickly devolving into the same mindless jingoism of _____house.

  18. beerBoy says:

    According to a Teleseker-Maariv poll, conducted last night(Tues, May 24), a clear majority of 57 percent of Israelis would have wanted Netanyahu to say “yes” or “yes, but” (figures break 10 percent “yes”, 47 “yes, but”) to the path to a two-state solution outlined in President Obama’s speech.

    By being more pro-Israeli than the Knesset, the US Congress indicates that the road to peace and justice in the region cannot pass through Washington

    If the events of the past few days have taught us anything, it’s that the unique connection between Washington politicians (Republicans and Democrats alike), the Jewish lobby and Israeli hawks is the main obstacle to the termination of the occupation.

    http://972mag.com/poll-netanyahu-us-congress-aipac-stand-to-the-right-of-israeli-public/

  19. beerBoy says:

    In sum, the Jewish Israeli public over the last few years tends to be divided regarding levels of support for the explicit notion of returning to the 67 borders, with land swaps/adjustments. However, when presented as part of a larger package of an agreement rather than as an isolated concept, Israelis mostly support such packages with clear majorities. The Jewish public became generally more hard-line after the mid-2000s, following the unilateral settlement dismantling in Gaza, the subsequent electoral rise of the Hamas and its takeover of Gaza in 2007 (see this comprehensive INSS report for evidence of the shift in attitudes following this phase).

    The bottom line is that the notion of a Palestinian state based on the1967 borders, with adjustments, has never been shown to drag down support for a comprehensive agreement – were the leaders of this region serious enough to reach one.

    http://972mag.com/what-do-israelis-think-of-1967-borders-with-swaps/

  20. xx98411 says:

    Refering to the first link from BB, I suggest you all read the comments. Some good points were made in regard to the lines vs boundary’s, interpretations of the meaning of questions, etc.. The following comment was also interesting:

    “Do you think you can base a foreign policy on a poll which summarized everything into one or two words???”

    Regarding the second link. They were refering to polls and I though this review of a question from a poll was interesting in that it combined the answers to four questions to obtain a perceived majority number.

    “Israel should withdraw to the 1967 border with adjustment through agreement of equivalent exchange of land”

    • 52% of all Israelis responded that this is “essential,” “desirable,” “acceptable” or tolerable”
    • 39% considered it unacceptable.”

    Polls should reflect public opinion as oppose an attempt to shape it.

  21. KARDNOS says:

    “BlaineCGarver says:
    May 27, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    The enemies of our enemies are our friends.”

    That one works in middle school, but most of us grow up and understand that no one is right all the time. We mature beyond blind obedience.

    Discernment, I believe, is the term…..

  22. KARDNOS says:

    xx98411 says:
    May 28, 2011 at 5:47 am
    Polls should reflect public opinion as oppose an attempt to shape it.

    Now there is a democratic idea. Take popular opinion, ignore it and do what you want. That plan is working well for the Republicans in America. Ask the New York 26th District what the popular opinion of Paul Ryan’s medicare plan is.

  23. Roncella says:

    Polago, Your buddy Kardnos, has already corrected my spelling of your and when to use it and when not to.

    Now that I know it seems to unset both of you do you really think I will not continue to spell Your how ever I want to, when even I want ??? my oh my….

  24. LarryFine says:

    As I said earlier, many of you lefties here have no problem hanging the racist, bigot, homophobe, hater … labels on people you disagree with, but the light shines on your antisemitism you get all bent out of shape when someone mentions it.
    .

  25. KARDNOS says:

    it’s really sad when Americans make light of the racism that exists in our country. When you travel the world and see that racism is a characterist of the most ignorant societies, it says something about how far we haven’t evolved as a country in over 200 years

  26. KARDNOS says:

    Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is “hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity.”[1] In its extreme form, it “attributes to the Jews an exceptional position among all other civilizations, defames them as an inferior group and denies their being part of the nation[s]” in which they reside.[2] A person who holds such views is called an “antisemite”. Antisemitism may be manifested in many ways, ranging from individual expressions of hatred and discrimination against individual Jews to organized violent attacks by mobs, or even state police, or military attacks on entire Jewish communities. Extreme instances of persecution include the First Crusade of 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various pogroms, the Dreyfus Affair, and the Holocaust by Nazi Germany.

    I posted that for those that want to know the real definition and discern the difference between the bigotry and the feigned outrage that the Conservatives are using for political purposes.

    It’s truly a sad statement of America when people of a political persuasion will use false outrage to futher a political cause.

  27. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Think, think, think, before you attack the U.S. about being a racist country.

    You must have flunked history or slept through the class when U.S. History was being discussed.

    America is not perfect but consider the number of races and religions all living together and working together. Kardnos name another country with as many different religions and races with a population of over 300 million people that offers more freedoms to live and work and prosper than America.

    Let me remind you how after 9-11 occured hillary clinton and algore and others called President Bush names in fact algore called him a liar in a number of speeches These attacks continued on for 7 years, until he left office, now thats truly a sad statment and reflects the low character of some dems in caring more about their own future than that of their Countries Future.

  28. “Roncella says:
    May 28, 2011 at 10:01 am
    KARDNOS, Think, think, think, before you attack the U.S. about being a racist country.”

    Three letters, Roncella……KKK.

    An organization that flourished under the roof of America and still does, to a lesser extent.

    The embarrassment of America still lives and breathes.

    “Let me remind you how after 9-11 occured hillary clinton and algore and others called President Bush names in fact algore called him a liar in a number of speeches”.

    Again….post a link to said quotes. You can’t because the don’t exist

  29. As to calling Bush a “liar”….well….when it’s proven that he is a liar, there is no name calling going on, it’s just an observation of the truth.

    Ask Joe Wilson about Bush’s honesty.

  30. Try this search and see what you get:

    “Al Gore calls Bush liar”

    It was so funny I had to laugh…..

    All Conservative websites about “Al Gore is a liar”

  31. “Kardnos name another country with as many different religions and races with a population of over 300 million people that offers more freedoms to live and work and prosper than America”

    The population has nothing to do with societies ills. Great Britain is miles ahead of us on racial harmony. The Netherlands, Sweden and Norway don’t even think about race.

    “live, work and prosper”……please…save the fascist slogans for someone else. We live in a country where the middle class is being pushed out of existence by the wealthy elite and you are going to talk about equal access to the freedom to “live, work and prosper”???????

    You are truly a walking, talking satire of yourself.

  32. MarksonofDarwin says:

    I thought perhaps that this particular thread wouldn’t be infected with the spam-bot, but like some dumb machine, every single letter on this site is a boring spam-a-thon by the megalomaniac who haunts the joint.

    I will attempt to address one of bB’s complaints. It’s true that we send large sums of money to Israel. Why is it that nobody ever mentions the fact that we ALSO send money to the Palestinians? We do, by the way.

    Since 1993, when the Palestinians were given self rule, they have received 3.5 billion from us. The number is much higher for Israel only because that country has been recognized since 1949……you do the math.

    Personally, I think we should end or reduce ALL aid to ALL ME countries, but this dishonesty regarding Israel needed to be addressed. I think on another thread somebody even came out and SAID that the Palestinians got NO aid from us. Frankly, it’s appalling.

    Anyway…so much for spitting into the wind.
    By the time I finish writing this and posting, there will be another 5 to 6 stunningly immature comments made by ONE guy. *shrug* I’m sure the TNT doesn’t mind the hits….

  33. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Thank you MoD

  34. KARDNOS says:

    Still waiting for Roncella’s links….

  35. KARDNOS says:

    Markson….I agree with you 100%. No aid for any ME country….absolutely none!

    Oh wait….I’m stunningly immature…..thus….oh nevermind….

  36. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, You have to be smarter than your last post, comparing englands population to that of the U.S. Population, sweden, and norway, please one is the size of vermont, the other main, with populations about 3 million each.

    You brand America as a Racist Country with its over 300 Million citizens all working and getting along just fine, Not Perfectly.

    Don’t run away from this Kardnos answer the question,name another country the size of the U.S. with as many different races and religions that would be better to live and work and prosper in than the U.S. of A.

  37. KARDNOS says:

    Still no citations from Roncella. Just baseless assertions.

    One more time, Roncella….since you are reading challenged…

    The population has nothing to do with societies ills.
    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/27/israel-is-u-s-s-best-ally-in-mideast/#ixzz1NhHeFYnm

    See it that time?

  38. KARDNOS says:

    Oh…correcting my mistake…

    “Population has nothing to do with a society’s ills.”

    Of course, I was talking to Roncella so I could have used phonetic spelling and gotten the point across

  39. mod says: “Since 1993, when the Palestinians were given self rule, they have received 3.5 billion from us. The number is much higher for Israel only because that country has been recognized since 1949…”

    Israel has recived an average of 2.75 billion per year in economic and military aid from 2001-2011. (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm,)

    If mod is correct that the Palestinians have received 3.5 billion since 1993, which equals 206 million per year, then the Palestinians receive 7% of what Israel receives from the U.S. each year.

  40. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Cirrus,

    You can’t possibly ask me or anybody else to seriously consider a blog by some guy calling himself “Vaughn” as a credible authority on the middle east.
    He fancies himself as an expert in many things it seems, and he has cute dogs too.
    http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/index.htm

    I apologize for not including my source earlier.
    Here it is:
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

  41. So, you think that it bothers me that you misspell and misuse certain words, Roncella? Not hardly. Most of us here can read typo.

    Feel free to spell any way you want. It fits your persona.

  42. sue1234 says:

    I consider myself a good decent American and I hold no alligence to ANY OTHER country. George Washington warned Americans about unconditionally supporting another country.

    I also believe, anyone with dual citizenship should be not be able to hold a position in any governmental entity.

    Israel, We Bless Thee
    For taking that high-tech military technology and selling it to our enemies, such as the Russians and Chinese, thus further endangering us, we bless thee

    For killing 35 and wounding 170 American sailors aboard the USS Liberty, we bless thee.

    For sending your agents into Egypt and blowing up American buildings for the purpose of blaming the Arabs in an event known as the Lavon Affair, we bless thee.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3327.h

  43. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, I am waiting for you to enlighten everyone as to another Country with over 300 million people with as diverse a population of blacks, spanish, whites, asian, all the rest, with thousands of religions all living and working together peacefully.

    By the Way Sarah Palin had it exactly right when she used the phrase ” Drill Baby Drill”.

  44. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella….for the third time….

    “Population has nothing to do with a society’s ills.”

    Did you understand that time?

    Please avoid quoting Sarah Palin before I’ve had breakfast.

  45. KARDNOS says:

    Oh…and Roncella….when are you going to post links to cite support for your baseless assertions?

  46. KARDNOS says:

    “blacks, spanish, whites, asian, all the rest, with thousands of religions all living and working together peacefully.”

    Tell the black man that was dragged behind a pickup truck.

    Tell the gay man that was tortured and murdered.

    Tell the Japanese that were interned for being….Japanese Americans.

    Tell the Hispanics who are profiled and sent to jail for not carrying ID.

    Tell the Muslims that have been attacked for wanting to build a community center in New York and a Mosque in Tennesee.

    Tell the Jewish Community of Seattle who had a white separatist open fire and kill people in their center

    Shall I keep going or are you embarrassed enough by your silly fascist flag waving ideals?

  47. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Next time you attack and acuse the U.S.A. of being a racist country be ready to back it up with true facts and honest figures, and examples of another country close in population that you think is as good or better than America.

    I will let you off the hook, as I understand better than you that there is no other Country with a population of over 300 million (not sweden/norway) that has so many different races and religions all living and working together to have a decent life, and a very good standard of living.

    As an extreme far left liberal, I understand its painful for you and other liberals to admit that America is that shining city on the hill. You would rather apoligize for and criticize America every chance you get.

  48. xx98411 says:

    karnos: 1-800-YTGuilt

  49. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, I don’t need a link to prove that America is the Greatest Country on the Planet, anyone with a brain could figure that out.

  50. Roncella says:
    May 29, 2011 at 9:57 am
    KARDNOS, Next time you attack and acuse the U.S.A. of being a racist country be ready to back it up with true facts and honest figures,
    ————————————————————————-

    KARDNOS says:
    May 29, 2011 at 9:52 am
    “blacks, spanish, whites, asian, all the rest, with thousands of religions all living and working together peacefully.”

    Tell the black man that was dragged behind a pickup truck.

    Tell the gay man that was tortured and murdered.

    Tell the Japanese that were interned for being….Japanese Americans.

    Tell the Hispanics who are profiled and sent to jail for not carrying ID.

    Tell the Muslims that have been attacked for wanting to build a community center in New York and a Mosque in Tennesee.

    Tell the Jewish Community of Seattle who had a white separatist open fire and kill people in their center

    Shall I keep going or are you embarrassed enough by your silly fascist flag waving ideals?

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/27/israel-is-u-s-s-best-ally-in-mideast/#ixzz1NlNacl6k

    You need to work on that reading problem, Roncella. I guess you want another “fact”

    How many blacks were killed by the KKK?

    I’ll divide the answer into several sections
    Reconstruction 1st Klan (1865-1877)
    1500 estimated by the Tuskegee Institute
    1200 blacks 300 whites
    100-200 killed in South Carolina
    150 Florida

    The rest mostly killed during black voting in Louisiana in the 1868 US Presidential Election
    The Klan was also partially involved in the Colfax Massacre
    Nadir 2nd Klan ( 1915 – 1944)
    416
    Klan was frequently involved in lynchings, killed mostly blacks in this era
    Murdered Blacks returning from WW1
    Killed Leo Frank (Jewish White)
    Killed 6 blacks attempting to vote in Orange County Florida
    Civil Rights 3rd Klan (1954-1968)
    15 people (13 black)
    These murders are well known and include, but are not limited to
    1963 murder Medgar Evers
    1963 16th street baptist church bombing
    1964 Mississippi Burning
    1965 Viola Luizo Shooting
    1966 Vernon Dahmer Killing
    Many of these murders were prosecuted … in the 90s and 2000s
    David Duke 4th Klan
    1979 Greensboro Massacre 5 killed
    5th Klan
    1981 Lynching Michael Donald
    Klan member electrocuted
    Total 1937
    Note these are only those killed. Hundreds of thousands of people were injured or intimidated by the Klan
    + Although the Klan hadn’t been formed, Nathan Bedford Forrest, leader of the first Klan committed this atrocity
    Fort Pillow Massacre 1864 277 blacks

    Feel free to ask when you need more facts about our so call “Greatest Country in the World”

  51. xx…..if you are feeling guilty enough to have to make light of the truth of our country’s greatest stain, continue to make light.

    We repeat the mistakes we made in the past by ignoring them.

  52. Sadly, you didn’t get Garret’s humor. Satire is often missed by the receiver.

  53. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, As a proud American getting ready to celebrate Memorial Day with good food and drink to honor our fallen soldiers who sacrificed their lifes so we could all live free,

    I would like to encourage you to leave America and perhaps re-locate to France or Sweden or Norway, maybe Iran or some other mid-eastern country that might fit your beliefs better, ya know, another country you would be proud to live in.

  54. “Roncella says:
    May 29, 2011 at 10:44 am
    KARDNOS, As a proud American getting ready to celebrate Memorial Day with good food and drink to honor our fallen soldiers who sacrificed their life”

    Gotta prepare to drink a day early? Hmmmm…..oh well

    “I would like to encourage you to leave America and perhaps re-locate to France or Sweden or Norway, maybe Iran or some other mid-eastern country that might fit your beliefs better, ya know, another country you would be proud to live in.”

    We see here, from Roncella, the celebration of the First Amendment to the Constitution that says “if you voice your opinion and I disagree, you should leave the county”. Remember folks, Roncella is a member of the TEA Party and they live strictly by the Constitution.

    Jingoism is so ugly…..

  55. Hey….little one….how did you like my fact that you asked for?

  56. LarryFine says:

    beerBoy says:
    May 28, 2011 at 3:57 am
    According to a Teleseker-Maariv poll …
    .
    beerBoy says:
    September 10, 2010 at 7:55 am
    It’s interesting how polls are always most significant when they support one’s own views and rather unimportant when they don’t.

  57. MoD says: “Cirrus, You can’t possibly ask me or anybody else to seriously consider a blog by some guy calling himself “Vaughn” as a credible authority on the middle east.”

    That’s a cheap shot. Evidently you only take web sites seriously if they align with your ideology. It’s well known that Israel receives around 3 billion per year in U.S. aid. I chose that sight because it had a nice graph and easy to understand, and if anything it understates what Israel receives each year.

    According to http://WWW.CRS.gov, Israel receives 3 billion per year in U.S. aid which is more than the “Vaughn” web site I referred to states. My apologies for choosing a web site that may have understated the amount.

  58. Roncella says: “As a proud American getting ready to celebrate Memorial Day with good food and drink to honor our fallen soldiers who sacrificed their life”

    A proud American honors our fallen soldiers who sacrificed their lives by drinking and eating? That seems silly. No wonder they call us the Ugly Americans.

    Try doing something positive for veterans and their families instead of yourself.

  59. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Cirrus,

    Not meant as a cheap shot. I sincerely wasn’t looking to offend.
    I don’t dismiss most websites, but a blog by some guy is a non-starter for me.
    I read many sites that don’t align with my views….actually I question any site that aligns with my views too closely. Many times my suspicions of complete bias and untruthfulness are confirmed. I’m not interested in propaganda…..and this particular subject has more propaganda surrounding than any other.

    Thank you for taking the time to post another site…

    My point isn’t that Israel gets no aid….or even that they get less aid.
    My point is that Palestine also gets aid at a comparable level. Comparable to me at least…..we shouldn’t be giving aid to any of them…

    Simply complaining about Israel’s aid gives the impression that they are the ONLY ones who receive it….I was responding to that.

    I do have a sincere question though. How would our foreign policy look if we broke our relationship from Israel entirely? We could pull monetary and policy support tomorrow…..what will that accomplish?

  60. alindasue says:

    MarksofDarwin said, “I do have a sincere question though. How would our foreign policy look if we broke our relationship from Israel entirely? We could pull monetary and policy support tomorrow…..what will that accomplish?”

    If we pulled our monetary support from Israel (and the smaller support from Palestine as well, I would think), it might have the effect of making their government leaders take our government less for granted… might. It might lead to the USA being seen in a better light by Israel’s neighbors… again I say, might. Honestly, I think the damage is already done. Unfortunately, it’s a lot easier to get into the middle of a fight, even vicariously through “aid”, than it is to pull out of one.

    It probably wouldn’t happen anyways though because the domestic political backlash that would ensue would be of awesome proportions. I think that’s the main reason the “aid” payments keep flowing, despite the fact that they should never have started to begin with.

  61. beerBoy says:

    MoD – Israel isn’t the only country to receive aid but they are, by far, the only country on top of the list to receive aid.

  62. beerBoy says:

    “America is the Greatest Country on the Planet”

    Do you have pom-pons that go with that routine?

  63. beerBoy says:

    You know xx – that bit about white guilt works out pretty well for Israeli’s collecting on the holocaust guilt of Americans…..

  64. xx98411 says:

    BB – I pulling out of this thread.

    I should kept the train wreck discourse I was having with karnos on the other thread and I let it spread here. My bad…

    Just ignore my post, it won’t be hard , just pretend I am karnos… ;)

  65. KARDNOS says:

    Excellent point beerBoy….

    Whenever I, or any other person, notes obvious racism applied towards our President, the Conservatives yammer to the rescue of that person.

    Not one person has made an issue of LarryFine’s mockery of racism as misapplied on the issue of support for Israel.

    There is no logical reason for the US to continue sending money to a county whose leadership so strongly disagrees with our administration. We cannot buy Israel, and frankly, who wants it anyway?

    The religious war in the Middle East is nothing but a future war for the US that can’t be paid for by lowering taxes on the rich.

    It’s time to start taking care of America. THERE is a Memorial Day thought

    Let’s take all the money given away around the world a remember our veterans, our elderly and our poor.

  66. xx98411 says:

    The issue here is antisematism not racism… different ball of wax…

  67. Roncella says:

    Happy Memorial Day to my follow posters who love America and believe in America and are not ashamed of America, and never apoligize for America.

    To the far left liberals,progressives,hope you enjoy your day off today, it was paid for with the lifes of brave Americans who believed in America and gave their lifes to keep it strong and free.

  68. Ron – the reality is that there are at least as many, if not more, “liberals” in Congress who are veterans than “conservatives”.

    The Dems are also as likely, if not more, to send troops into harm’s way as Republicans.

    The major difference is when it comes to funding Veterans – the Dems tend to be much more willing to take care of our warriors after they come home.

  69. Ron – I love my country but, just as is true with my love for my wife, I can see and admit her faults. Infatuation, like yours, requires one to ignore all of the blemishes.

  70. MarksonofDarwin says:

    bB,

    Israel receives a bigger slice of the American pie, therefore everything they do is automatically worse than even the most atrocious acts committed by those countries and peoples who receive less? Is that right? I’m just trying to follow the logic.

    My thoughts on the subject go more toward staying out of foreign entanglements. I have no doubt that yours do too, yet you seem to also take a leap and add our mistake in giving aid to the long list of Israel’s shortcomings.

    When searching for the site I posted earlier, I came across a pro-Israel site that claimed the majority of the money Israel receives is in the form of loans. That may be true on paper, I don’t know, (I dismissed the site after one sentence) but if these “loans” are of the same variety as the “loans” we gave to GM….then it’s a game and a joke. If Israel is sending money back to us, then just like GM, the money probably comes from a fund we gave them to
    begin with.

    Nope. I don’t believe Israel is perfect.
    I DO know that Israel is the most liberal of ANY country in the ME, and it’s baffling to me that anyone who professes to love liberty would choose any other country in the region as an ally.

  71. “The issue here is antisematism not racism… different ball of wax…”

    Now I’m confused…..the belief in Aryans as the “Master Race” is racism but the belief that Jewish blood polluted Germans was antisemitism? So….was the Final Solution racist or antisemitic?

    And….is any criticism of Israel, or any Jew, antisemitic? Jerry Seinfeld’s Uncle Leo thought so. Heck, he knew that anytime he got bad service at a restaurant it was due to antisemitism.

    Here’s the deal: I criticize Israel because of their apartheid policies – exactly like I did with South Africa – if you really think that that is an example of antisemitism you are just as much a cartoon as Uncle Leo.

  72. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, As far as who cares more for our wounded Military heros after they return I would say most liberals and conservatives are equally concerned for their well being and recovery.

    However sadly I can still remember democrat leader of the senate, harry reid having a press conference stating the war is lost its time to bring the troops home Now, while our troops were activley fighting and dieing in Iraq. All he did was give aid and encouragement to the terrorist fighting our troops. Almost as bad as Janefonda did in encouraging the north vietcong to keep fighting.

  73. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, Having pride in ones Country is honorable. Is there room for improvement, of course thats true. However you should never bow or apoligize for America. Its the greatest Country on the Planet.

  74. bb- my comment wasn’t directed at you…

    you wanna start a figth with me… I’m cool with that… I just need to know what I am fighting for/against….

  75. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 30, 2011 at 10:56 am
    Happy Memorial Day to my follow posters who love America and believe in America and are not ashamed of America, and never apoligize for America.”

    The founding fathers if this country were smart enough to know that blind obedience was not good, thus the First Amendment to the Constitution.

    If only the TEA Party members were as good at practicing the Constitution as they are at waving it in the air…..

  76. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 30, 2011 at 11:32 am
    However you should never bow

    Oh…let’s have that protocol discussion again……

  77. beerboy, I gotta admit, you do have guts to bring South Africa into the discussion. That’s a perfect example of a failed state. So you want Israel to take the same path as South Africa?

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