Letters to the Editor

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POLITICS: ‘There you go again,’ Democrats

Letter by Craig Chilton, Bonney Lake on May 19, 2011 at 11:11 am with 95 Comments »
May 19, 2011 11:11 am

“There you go again” said Ronald Reagan to President Carter in the 1980 presidential debate, referring to Carter’s repeated misrepresentations of Reagan’s record.

This phrase is appropriate even today in reply to President Obama and the many liberal letter writers telling us how disastrous the outcomes of Republican policies will be: Grandma will be thrown under the bus, children will starve and the safety net for the poor will be shredded into a thousand pieces.

Have any of these ever happened? No. These ridiculous comments are nothing more than liberal propaganda the Democrats roll out every year at election time.

Americans are the most generous people in the world. We will always have a safety net for the poor, but the Democrats know they can’t win on policy issues so they continually resort to scare tactics. In 1996, the Republican Congress pressured President Clinton into signing welfare reform. Democrats said the law would impoverish more than a million children. Within five years the welfare rolls declined by 50 percent, and more than 1.4 million children were lifted out of poverty.

Now entitlement programs need to be reformed, especially Medicare and Social Security, which are for the first time paying out more in benefits than they collect in revenue.

Congressman Paul Ryan has put forth a Medicare reform proposal. What did President Obama propose? Nothing. Senate Democrats? They punted, too. Instead, Obama made another absurd accusation, that Republicans want to turn the U.S. into a Third World country.

“There you go again.”

Leave a comment Comments → 95
  1. Craig….there you go again…..beating the Conservative drum as directed.

  2. Oh..and Craig….ask Ryan’s constituents what they thought of his plan for Medicare…..

  3. “Within five years the welfare rolls declined by 50 percent, and more than 1.4 million children were lifted out of poverty”

    Of course, of late, Newt Gingrich has called Obama “the most successful food stamp President”

    Am I to guess that the 8 years of Bush put the 1.4 million back in poverty?

  4. “Now entitlement programs need to be reformed, especially Medicare and Social Security, which are for the first time paying out more in benefits than they collect in revenue.”

    Lie. Both are insurance policies and both are solvent to date.

  5. Lie???

    “This year, the system will pay out more in benefits than it receives in payroll taxes, an important threshold it was not expected to cross until at least 2016, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    Analysts have long tried to predict the year when Social Security would pay out more than it took in because they view it as a tipping point — the first step of a long, slow march to insolvency, unless Congress strengthens the program’s finances.”

  6. LarryFine says:

    4 in a row… yet nothing.

  7. “The bad economy has shortened the life of the trust funds that support Social Security and Medicare, the nation’s two biggest benefit programs, the government reported Friday. Here are eight things to know about the new estimate:

    1 What is the new estimate? Medicare could begin running a deficit in 2024, five years earlier than projected last year. And Social Security, which last year began paying out more in benefits than it collected in taxes, now faces insolvency in 2036, compared to 2037 in last year’s projections.”

    Ran in all the major media within the last week.

    Is that the same CBO that Conservatives say are wrong when they don’t like what they say?

  8. The other part of the lie is that they are not entitlements.

  9. BlaineCGarver says:

    This blog is starting to be as much fun as a burn ward….All these attacks and nothing of value. I can’t believe that anyone will believe ANY of the trash thrown out by the PR machines of ANY political party. One FACT that remains is that about half of America does not pay income tax, and that the upper earners pay MOST of the income tax.

  10. xx’s information is about two months old

  11. Letters like this always make me laugh.
    To think that there are people out there that ‘think’ this way, is amuzing to me.

  12. fbergford says:

    Two thumbs up Craig! Good letter, it apparently got some panties tied in a knot ;) On another note, It’s also pretty interesting to see the Democrats at the state level get into a pissing match with each other! House Dems vs Senate Dems…whose going to win?! The sad part about that is, it’s costing every tax payer in Washington 20K a day for this 1st special session, and it’s looking like there will be a 2nd special session. We are already facing a 5 billion dollar deficit…ah but what’s couple million more to add on top of that! That couple million that the Democrats are wasting could have been put to good use!

  13. xx98411 says:

    “xx’s information is about two months old.”

    Is the information invalid?

  14. xx98411 says:

    “Is that the same CBO that Conservatives say are wrong when they don’t like what they say?”

    don’t know… don’t care… are those that raise the issue wrong about the CBO’s current review of the Medicare program?

  15. KARDNOS says:

    xx – according to what I posted from last week….yes…it’s invalid, other than the apples to oranges comparison that the letter writer is trying to create.

    Now, is it true that both are ‘entitlements” or are they insurance benefits?

    You guys can play rhetoric and fear games all you want with SS and Medicare, but the constituents are telling the Republican Congress where the bear pooped in the buckwheat.

    Keep trying a new tack.

  16. KARDNOS says:

    Then let’s take a big boy look at the challenge. The cost of a product goes up, therefore the price goes up. If the cost of Social Security and Medicare goes up, why shouldn’t the premiums increase?

    It appears Congress has no problem in handing out money to the oil companies. Maybe they should tax those companies to pay the bills that are due.

  17. KARDNOS says:

    fberg bleets – “We are already facing a 5 billion dollar deficit”

    How about cutting the 4 billion oil subsidies?

  18. KARDNOS says:

    this is more of the chicken little “sky is falling” crap that the GOP pulls.

    We’re going broke as a country, but we’re providing subsidies to the richest companies in the world.

    Explain THAT math.

  19. xx98411 says:

    Don’t know what you posted last week but a 2010 CBO report says the program will run out of money…

    entitilement vs benefit… don’t care… SS (and Medicare) need to have structural changes made to them well before the programs go broke so that the changes are not as drastic as they will be in the future…

    “If the cost of Social Security and Medicare goes up, why shouldn’t the premiums increase?”

    Because at some point you just have no more money… no mater what income level you are to afford them.

    “How about cutting the 4 billion oil subsidies?”

    Sure… cut all subsidies…

    “We’re going broke as a country,…”

    Glad you agree…

  20. Conservatives are stupid AND mean…if you believe what you hear on TV and read in the paper. They don’t care about kids OR old people; certainly not “the poor”. They hate Muslims and gay people too. They are just bad people. If we could eliminate THEM we could build the Utopia we dream of.

  21. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    xx98411 says:

    ”… a 2010 CBO report says the program will run out of money… ”

    Actually, it gets worse for poor Kardy. He really should pay attenetion to the SUMMARY OF THE 2011 ANNUAL REPORTS by the Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees.

    http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

    That would be (among others):

    Timothy F. Geithner,
    Secretary of the Treasury,
    and Managing Trustee

    Kathleen Sebelius,
    Secretary of Health
    and Human Services,
    and Trustee

    Hilda L. Solis,
    Secretary of Labor,
    and Trustee

    Michael J. Astrue,
    Commissioner of
    Social Security,
    and Trustee

    All 0bama appointees.

    For the Readers Digest version, try boning-up here, Kardy:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7572462&page=1

    Trustees of the programs said Tuesday that Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, one year sooner than projected last year, and the giant trust fund will be depleted by 2037, four years sooner.
    Medicare is in even worse shape. The trustees said the program for hospital expenses will pay out more in benefits than it collects this year and will be insolvent by 2017, two years earlier than the date projected in last year’s report.

    Granted, the letter writer was factually inaccurate – but not completely off his rocker… like certain other proliferous blowhards tend to be.

  22. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Oh, and Kardy, the Trustees Report was released a week ago. Current enough for ‘ya.

    Oh the depth and breadth of fundamental lack of understanding…

  23. KARDNOS says:

    So…..Social Security (which is not an entitlement), under the currect premium rates, one year sooner. Solution: increase the premiums. That is what insurance companies do.

    The LIE is that Social Security and Medicare are entitlements, which they are not.

    You’ll note, much to Voxie’s chagrin, that the drop dead date keeps changing.

    Now to Medicare – again…..raise the premiums.

    If an insurance company isn’t making enough money, they raise rates – proof positive, every year in my home and every other insured home in the United States. The insurance companies aren’t shy about increasing rates. The gas companies know how to raise prices. Why won’t the government take the appropriate action?

    Back to Kardy’s statement “Both are insurance policies and both are solvent to date” Absolutely correct – BOTH ARE SOLVENT TO DATE (today). There is obviously corrective action that needs to be taken and it’s not brain surgery.

    Where is the Republican leadership when we need a simple increase in revenue? Out trying to gin up more money for their business friends.

  24. KARDNOS says:

    Voxie….read this very carefully:

    “Both are insurance policies and both are solvent to date”

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/19/there-you-go-again/#ixzz1MqjwPYmK

    Look up the big words.

  25. KARDNOS says:

    The insolvency of Medicare and Social Security is kinda like the world ending this weekend………

  26. KARDNOS says:

    xx….nice editing job. Do you write for a local blog out of Olympia? The editing is so familiar.

    Now whey you put it back into the real context:

    “We’re going broke as a country, but we’re providing subsidies to the richest companies in the world.

    Explain THAT math.”

    …..it means somethign entirely different. It’s a sarcasm of sorts….but you knew that thus you edited my statement to attempt to change its meaning.

  27. KARDNOS says:

    “sozo says:
    May 19, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    Conservatives are stupid AND mean…if you believe what you hear on TV and read in the paper. They don’t care about kids OR old people; certainly not “the poor”. They hate Muslims and gay people too. They are just bad people. If we could eliminate THEM we could build the Utopia we dream of.”

    No chance, sozo. As long as there is greed, there will be Conservatism.

  28. KARDNOS says:

    Voxie….is Social Security solvent TODAY?

    How about Medicare? Solvent TODAY?

    KARDNOS says:
    May 19, 2011 at 11:22 am
    Both are insurance policies and both are solvent to date.

    Why is reading this sentence so difficult?

  29. KARDNOS says:

    oh the lack of reading comprehension…..

  30. xx98411 says:

    “We’re going broke as a country, but we’re providing subsidies to the richest companies in the world.

    Explain THAT math.”

    My post at 5:05 said “Sure… cut all subsidies…”

  31. xx98411 says:

    “Solution: increase the premiums….”

    Why would you increase the premiums as a solution to unsustainable amounts, without first understanding whether the business model is valid and sustainable?

    karnos you can suggest better than that… can’t you?

  32. KARDNOS says:

    The solution that works for the insurance companies and the oil companies isn’t good enough for the American people???????

    Here is a little piece from a Florida town hall meeting:

    WEST: I don’t think it destroys Medicare.

    [Audience groans]

    CONSTITUENTS: Hands off Medicare! Hands off Medicare! Hands off Medicare!

    WEST: I will take my hands off Medicare and when there is no Medicare, then I will come see you sir. Next slide.

    CONSTITUENTS: Hands off Medicare!

  33. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Bullseye!

    Poor Kardy – tries to deflect to a question of comprehension involving a TNT quote, to which not one single line of my post referred. Kindly point to where I even mentioned the byte you pasted.

    Now I might disagree on the entitlement opinion (e.g. what do you call a program that pays benefits to an able-bodied recipient who hardly worked a day in his life… like my brother-in-law, for instance), but right now the vacuum’s too loud.

  34. xx98411 says:

    “The solution that works for the insurance companies and the oil companies isn’t good enough for the American people???????”

    If an insurance company pays out more than it takes in for too long then the company will go bankrupt. If an insurance company raises it’s premiums you have the option of doing business with a different company.

    oil companies??? remember I have a feeble mind… please help me to understand how an oil company business model is related to Social Security.

    Thanks

  35. xx98411 says:

    “WEST: I will take my hands off Medicare and when there is no Medicare, then I will come see you sir.”

    refreshingly honest for a politician huh?

  36. xx98411 says:

    KARDNOS says:
    “May 19, 2011 at 11:22 am
    Both are insurance policies and both are solvent to date.

    Why is reading this sentence so difficult?”

    Maybe because it is not true…

    “Social Security to See Payout Exceed Pay-In This Year
    By MARY WILLIAMS WALSH
    Published: March 24, 2010″

    It’s from the New York Times… you know how the lefties love that paper…

    hmmm, maybe your are correct for this year 2011… we can hope.

  37. KARDNOS says:

    Any company….oil or otherwise, in need of additional revenue either sells more or increases prices.

    If you don’t know that, you’ve never worked for a business.

    Social Security is solvent. Today. If there is change required for the future, then change.

  38. KARDNOS says:

    I stand by my original statement:

    KARDNOS says:
    May 19, 2011 at 11:22 am
    “Now entitlement programs need to be reformed, especially Medicare and Social Security, which are for the first time paying out more in benefits than they collect in revenue.”

    Lie. Both are insurance policies and both are solvent to date.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/19/there-you-go-again/#ixzz1Mr2Z1kie

  39. KARDNOS says:

    “xx98411 says:
    May 19, 2011 at 6:53 pm
    “WEST: I will take my hands off Medicare and when there is no Medicare, then I will come see you sir.”

    refreshingly honest for a politician huh?”

    If only West had run on this campaign issue, then I’d call him honest. But he didn’t, so he is not honest, refreshingly or otherwise.

  40. KARDNOS says:

    “If an insurance company raises it’s premiums you have the option of doing business with a different company.”

    Oh…you want competition in the marketplace??? OK, give people the choice of private health care or Medicare and see what happens…..

    This is Paul Ryan’s foot in mouth problem as we speak…..LOL

    Wouldn’t you just love to see what an insurance company would do with money that you contributed for 40 years of your adult life……..LOLOLOL

  41. KARDNOS says:

    fberg…..if you are talking state budgets on a thread about federal budgets….I think you are looking in a mirror when you say “idiot”

    Try finding the thread about state budgets and I’m sure your comments won’t be misunderstood

    And yes, bergie….I’m guilty of not paying total attention to your posts. Call it “good taste” if you will…….

  42. KARDNOS says:

    “Now I might disagree on the entitlement opinion (e.g. what do you call a program that pays benefits to an able-bodied recipient who hardly worked a day in his life… like my brother-in-law, for instance), but right now the vacuum’s too loud.”

    So…..your brother-in-law and his physician are committing fraud? That doesn’t make the program bad. That makes your brother-in-law and his physician bad.

    Meanwhile millions of people legally need and receive Social Security.

    Considering what a pittance Social Security is in comparison to basic needs, I’m amazed that anyone can survive on it.

  43. KARDNOS says:

    fberg…..yeah….I’ll log in under “Sue1234″ or whatever the hell name is buzzing around in your mind. Maybe I’ll be xring, or beerBoy…….

    Have you spoken to a doctor about these hallucinations? PTSD????

  44. KARDNOS says:

    Refreshingly full of manure, as opposed to honest.

  45. xx98411 says:

    Karnos – it’s an oil company, they sell a product, they provide a service, they have a for profit business model… regardless of my business knowledge an oil company has no relation to the Social Security program.

    Stand all you want, the data shows you are wrong…

    Competition… yes I do… I would love to see what happens…

    Social Security was and is meant to be a supplement not to solely provide for all ones needs…

    Love that West…

  46. KARDNOS says:

    xx…..so the old adage about “run the country like a business” doesn’t apply when you guys want to change the rules, huh?

    There are plenty of businesses that don’t see a product. They are called “services”. Same method applies. You need additional revenue, you increase the selling prices.

    As to your love of West – what can I say? I demonstrate him to be deceptive and you profess love for him. OoooooooooooooooK.

  47. KARDNOS says:

    Oh…by the way…the DATA does not say that Social Security and Medicare are not SOLVENT TODAY.

    What we have here is a failure to communicate……

  48. KARDNOS says:

    “fbergford says:
    May 19, 2011 at 7:27 pm
    And your wife wasn’t home when I stopped by…she likes it when we play doctor”

    My wife is disabled. Hilarious.

  49. KARDNOS says:

    Now that your comedian career is in a shambles, Bergie…..

    Yes, the Democrats are trying to salvage programs for constituents – state and federal – while the Republicans are up to their typical scorched earth routine.

  50. xx98411 says:

    karnos – sure, when applicable, run the administration like a business. I did say product and/or service earlier….

    Maybe for your business but raising prices should be the last thing you do. Check your business model to ensure that it is still valid and look for ways to reduce expenses so that current revenue can sustain the business…. reducing prices is also valid to generate more volume…. but I digress…

    How can it be solvent today when it took in less than it paid out… that doesn’t sound like solvency to me…

  51. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Looks like the old way of doing italics is no longer valid, yet certain people post in italics and bold face type.

    Just another thing to make you go Hmmm………….

  52. Publico says:

    The statements made by Mr. Chilton are, in his mind, supposed to be facts, one might surmise. Too many of his statements of “fact” are not factual at all making his entire letter a message of muddled nonsense.
    What truly amazes me is that individuals submit this stuff for publication with no care about embarrassment. It must be a kind of numbness to reality.

  53. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    ”Lie. Both are insurance policies… ”

    From Reuters:

    The latest projections hit in the middle of an intense debate between the Obama administration and opposition Republicans about how to rein in the nation’s runaway debt, set to hit the legal limit of $14.3 trillion on Monday. Whether the two costly entitlement programs should be on the table has been an intense subject of debate.

    Is that the same Reuters liberlas say are wrong when they don’t like what they say?

    Well then how about Time and the WAPo:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/22/AR2009022202003.html

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1874858,00.html

    But then, those pieces were from way back in 2009 when the latest huffpo narrative had not yet been spun.

    ”… and both are solvent to date.”

    Yeah, that’s about as comforting as my accountant telling me I’m not bankrupt today, but I will be on Monday. You must be bald – you couldn’t possibly have any hairs left to split.

    Time for your daily walk-back, Kardy. In case you haven’t noticed, comment saturation makes one neither smart or correct.

  54. LarryFine says:

    “comment saturation” … lol, good one.

  55. KARDNOS says:

    “the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act”

    Not “Obamacare”…..as named by the Republican Media Machine.

    Social Security and Medicare are insurances

  56. KARDNOS says:

    My wife doesn’t work at DMV. Next?

  57. KARDNOS says:

    “I await your reply………………….”

    I was busy.

    Do you know how I keep a fool in suspense?

  58. xx98411 says:

    “Social Security and Medicare are insurances.”

    tomato… tomato… they are both going broke.

  59. 98411,
    There is running a business to produce the greatest good for the most people for the longest time.

    Then there is running a business to produce the most profit for the fewest people in the shortest time.

  60. xx98411 says:

    x – your first example brings that list to the tens of thousands… those businesses that have stood the test of service, time and ultimately consumer satistaction…

    The second list can best be illustrated by the offers on night-time TV and in your spam box…

  61. Xx98,
    The first example is usually referred to as the Japanese Business model.

    The second example is generally referred to as the Modern American MBA model.

  62. x – in your humble opinion…

  63. ” they are both going broke.”

    You asked for lies………

  64. x – how is it a lie… based on current projection the programs are taking in less than they are paying out and are projected to run out for Medicare towards the end of this decade… for Social Security two years earlier than previously projected (for those that can parse data… it is getting worse)

    tripe response all you want… the premise is true…

  65. KARDNOS said ” no chance sozo, as long as there is greed, there will be conservatism”. A better way to say it would be, ” as long as there are lazy non-producers, as long as there are those willing to live off of the labors of others, there will be liberals”.

  66. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 20, 2011 at 12:49 pm
    KARDNOS said ” no chance sozo, as long as there is greed, there will be conservatism”. A better way to say it would be, ” as long as there are lazy non-producers, as long as there are those willing to live off of the labors of others, there will be liberals”.”

    What happened to the liberal billionaires that were funding Obama???? Oh…I know they are lazy non-producers.

    “Live off the labor of others” – That is the definition of a Republican CEO.

  67. KARDNOS says:

    “xx98411 says:
    May 20, 2011 at 11:42 am
    x – how is it a lie… based on current projection the programs are taking in less than they are paying out and are projected to run out for Medicare towards the end of this decade… for Social Security two years earlier than previously projected (for those that can parse data… it is getting worse)”

    OK….Company XYZ’s projection is that they are costing more money to provide services to their customers than their revenue projection. Do they change the entire base of operations? Of course not. They alter the selling price of their goods and services and possibly seek savings in operational costs. The government is no different. The wheel need not be re-invented, it just needs honing.

    By the way, BROKE means that you have no reserves, which is untrue about Social Security AND Medicare

  68. Are the reserves Kardnos refering to have a different name? Would that name be called,Obamas Stash?

  69. Roncella says:

    President Ronald Reagan, had a great comment about Big Government as follows,

    ” Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it, If it keeps moving, regulate it, and if it stops moving, subsidize it”.

    The dems/liberals have nothing to offer to fix either Social Security and Medicare so they fall back to their usual game plan, of scaring the old folks and their dependents, with lies and T.V. adds showing grandma being pushed off a cliff.

    Its time they get honest and tell the truth and come to the table and actually help find solutions to fixing both Social Securtiy and Medicare.

    Obamacare is Not the Solution its just one of the problems that needs to be corrrected Now.
    S

  70. xx98411 says:

    “OK….Company XYZ’s projection is that they are costing more money to provide services to their customers than their revenue projection. Do they change the entire base of operations? Of course not. They alter the selling price of their goods and services and possibly seek savings in operational costs. The government is no different. The wheel need not be re-invented, it just needs honing.”

    Prior to raising prices the issues I would look at and ask questions of:

    Change the entire base – I’d considered that a little drastic and not necessary unless I am in the 8-track maker business.

    “…possibly seek savings in operational costs.” – no, not possibly, definately seek savings in expenses, adjustments as necessary, then and only then will I consider raising prices…

    What I am saying is that before we consider raising premiums, we need to look at the Social Security Program model and ensure that it is still valid considering two factors that have changed significantly since its inception…

    *the fact we are living longer sucking more from the system over a longer period of time
    *the number of people currently contributing to the program per recipient has reduced significanlty (35-1 to 5-1??? something like that)

  71. KARDNOS says:

    It’s always nice to see people that are responsible for themselves and don’t blame others for their problems.

  72. KARDNOS says:

    Uh…the Social Security Adminstration runs on less administrative overhead than the insurance industry….

    Nice try.

  73. Ithappened2me2 says:

    “It’s always nice to see people that are responsible for themselves and don’t blame others for their problems.”

    That wouldn’t be democRATs, now would it?

  74. xx98411 says:

    “Uh…the Social Security Adminstration runs on less administrative overhead than the insurance industry….”

    Your statement may be true or not… they are still going to run out of money two years earlier than previously estimated, recently paid out more than they took in in payroll taxes… they are going broke…

    nice try… weak… but nice try nonetheless…

  75. KARDNOS says:

    xx….my statement was in response to your comparison….

    Again…..the “sky is falling” projection can be solved by something other than the GOP Chicken Little act.

  76. yabetchya says:

    KARDNOS says:
    May 20, 2011 at 7:13 am

    Do you know how I keep a fool in suspense?

    Maybe by ignoring yourself ? or playing peek-a-boo with your wife.

  77. karnos – not that we agree that the projections are correct and need to be solved, before a premium increase what do you propose to solve the issue.

    *reducing the amount paid for full retirement
    *reducing the amount paid for partial retirement
    *limiting amount paid to what you put in (assuming a %5 return year over year)
    *increasing the age for a partial retirement
    *increasing the age for full retirement
    *increasing the maximum amount of contribution from $106K by 2%, 5%, 10%…
    *Means testing (a form of tax without representation)
    *???

  78. KARDNOS says:

    xx – without proper data, I wouldn’t guess at an answer. That is why I have a Congressperson and two Senators – to represent me.

    So far the Senators are doing great. The Congressperson was missing in action until her town hall meeting a week or so ago, when she took up the majority of the time with her dog and pony show and avoided questions from constituents.

    I will say this, the entire system would be more healthy if we quit outsourcing our manufacturing work to other countries were people don’t pay into the programs. Let’s just start by eliminating that practice and stop trying to lower the wages (thus the contributions) of workers and maybe the problem will correct itself.

    I’m betting the Republican Party doesn’t think we realize that when they eliminate jobs and lower wages that they set up the increase of the SS crisis.

  79. KARDNOS says:

    “the nanny deleted them (most likely at his request)”

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…..

    There would be no need for a “nanny” if children wouldn’t lie about their age and play on the forum.

    Personally, I don’t flag comments. It think ignorant fools should be allowed their ability to out themselves.

  80. Ithappened2me2 says:

    xx98411, those are great questions. When one party wanted to address the inevitable outcome, another party sent out the troops with slogans to thwart any change.

    Now here we are, with the same reality that the system is broke.

    I am glad that I don’t I don’t rely on three people to take care of the problem.

  81. xx98411 says:

    “I’m betting the Republican Party doesn’t think we realize that when they eliminate jobs and lower wages that they set up the increase of the SS crisis.”

    Do you have any “proper data” to validate your comment above? That way you don’t have to guess the validity of the comment.

  82. xx98411 says:

    Thanks Ithappened…

    I get tired of the Granny will eat cat food stories and would like one of these DC rocket scientist just ask and answer some basic fundamental questions about these issues. My logic is once you get some basic data, ask a few what ifs, the solution will present itself.

    On a side note between me, you and the electrons here… I am just trying to keep karnos focused… I am actually surprise he himself hasn’t played the Granny card. ;)

  83. If the Government is as broke as the Rpots claim why do they insist on continuing billions in subsidies and other payouts to corporations that are reporting record profits?

  84. KARDNOS says:

    xx……you are trying to keep me focused by moving the target?

    Now THAT is funny.

    Each of your questions, while valid, lack a certain element – data….PROOF – of the alleged financial debacle that allegedly exists.

    While the Republicans moan and wail about today’s deficit, they pretent to be solving huge problems that are project to not happen for years. Sooner or later the smoke clears and the mirrors will break and nothing, absolutely nothing, will change the point that the government needs more revenue and smart spending to achieve the task.

    Bring back jobs to the United States and put a huge tariff on imported goods and watch the problem solve itself, until Republican leadership finds a new boogeyman.

  85. KARDNOS says:

    By the way…the system is not broke. That is Republican rhetoric.

    The truth is that there are projections of financial failure, but that does not constitute broke.

    If I’m paying my bills today, I’m not broke. If projections say I can’t pay my bills in 5 years, chances are I need to change what I’m doing – starting with more revenue.

    The deficit we have is from two wars with no funding. Post WWII we had a larger deficit ratio and solved the problem with increased revenue via increased manufacturing and government programs. It can be done, unless you want to scare the crap out of voters and make them think you are the solution to their fears.

  86. KARDNOS says:

    “The granny card”

    Having seen and dealt with seniors that are in need, I find no humor in your rhetoric.

  87. Roncella says:

    DARDNOS, You also should find NO humor in t.v. adds showing a grandma being pushed over a cliff by dems scaring the old folks and their dependents.

  88. KARDNOS says:

    You’re right, Roncella – I find no humor in it. I don’t think the ad intends to be funny either.

  89. Of course the ‘kill granny’ and ‘death panal’ ads are acceptable if they come from the Rpot sources.

  90. xx98411 says:

    K – my questions/statements were posed as an example of what I believe the DC boys and girls should consider when attempting to determine what to do about SS and Medicare…

    PROOF – the projections are out there… Medicare in the toilet later this decade, SS two years earlier than previously projected. I have no clue where you are not looking… the system is broken and heading for a concrete wall.

    Before the DC / Olympia crowd asks us for more money they need to reduce the amount of money they spend now, better manage what we do send them, until then… no more money. For every dollar they take from me (you, us), they less we spend in the local community. It really is that simple.

    “If I’m paying my bills today, I’m not broke. If projections say I can’t pay my bills in 5 years, chances are I need to change what I’m doing – starting with more revenue.”

    Broke – tomato… tomato… If you are having a harder and harder time paying your bills as a result of increase spending and/or a reduction in revenue. OK, how about you are going broke.

    Revenue – your increase in revenue will be a result of providing a service or product to someone willing to pay you for your superior service/product, not as a result of involuntarily taking it via a tax.

    The deficit we have is a result of too much spending. You want to blame the wars… go ahead, but when you spend more than you take in you will run a deficit. It really is that simple.

  91. KARDNOS says:

    And you’d not blame the war spending???????????????

    Someone needs a history lesson…..STAT!!!

    “Budgetary costs include operational spending on Iraq and Afghanistan, which they estimate will total from $1.7 trillion to $2.7 trillion.”

    And THAT is just the outgoing money directly attributed.

    As to “broke” – I owe more money than I make. Am I broke? Not really. It’s called a “mortagage” and lots of people have them. If everyone waited to pay cash for a house, there would be less realtors, I guess….and bankers….

  92. KARDNOS says:

    If I took the Republican approach to my mortage, I’d run away….fast.

    Right now, I’m upsidedown.

  93. xx98411 says:

    Expenditures are the total of all spending, the expenditures should not exceed revenues. We at least agree on that.

    As far as spending priorities, constitutionally mandated services and the associated expenses have the highest priority… defense spending is one of those priorities. Now, if you wanna argue the wisdom of those particular wars and associated spending, that is a different thread. (Though not as many zero’s at the end we can add Libya to the list). Either way they are constitutionally mandated spending.

    I submit that given a stable revenue stream, any spending outside of constitutionally mandated expenses are what causes a budget deficit.

    We have to defend our nation… we don’t have to pay for Medicare sponsored Viagra.

  94. xx98411 says:

    “As to “broke” – I owe more money than I make. Am I broke? Not really.”

    hmm, it appears I am incapable of responding to this form of fiscal perseption and logic.

    I truely believe this statement speaks volumes… :)

  95. xx98411 says:

    If I took the Republican approach to my mortage, I’d run away….fast.
    Right now, I’m upside down.

    Quick story… when the wife and I were decided to refinance our house, the mortgage rocket scientist attempted to lead us to believe the house was worth $X + $250,000.00. I remember coming home from work, looking at my home and thought of all the wonderful things I could do with all that money…

    Then the lightning bolt of fiscal common sense hit me as I thought “who is the idiot that will pay me $X + $250,000.00 dollars for my house?”

    We settled for a refinance of $X dollars (55% of what we were lead to believe), what we thought the house was really worth . As the market collapse we did hold our breath as the values dropped but our current mortgage is at 90-95% of what the house is worth.

    A little luck but mostly fiscal management and sanity.

    I don’t think the ability to fiscally manage one’s home needs to be a Dem nor GOP issue.

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