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BOEING: Will gets a bashing two-fer

Letter by Jim R. Groves, Gig Harbor on May 16, 2011 at 9:56 am with 65 Comments »
May 16, 2011 1:54 pm

Re: “Anti-Boeing action reflects Obama’s anti-business stance” (George Will column, 5-15).

Will’s anti-union rant is not because he’s trying to show his concern for America; it’s because he wants his disdain for the unions and the president to be well known. He starts out by blaming the National Labor Relations Board for all the ills in the country and then segues, in a very clumsy way, to blame the president for union activities.

He continues on with such hyperbole as “the Obama administration is trying to debilitate the largest aerospace corporation,” knowing full well that the president has bent over backwards to placate big corporations that love to exploit cheap labor.

Will has found a twofer and is milking it for all its worth. A twofer gives him two pouches of ammo. One he uses to blame the unions for wanting fair labor practices upheld, and the other he uses to blame Obama for being anti-business by not taking a stance against one of his staunchest supporters.

Will knows full well that once the unions are busted that contributions for Democrats will be well on the way to drying up, and then only the Republicans will have access to the gold. Look at the union-busting going on by the governors of countless states to see where Will gets his ammo from.

 

Leave a comment Comments → 65
  1. sue1234 says:

    George Will is a shill for the gopcult. End of Discussion

  2. menopaws says:

    He’s a senile old fart who hates baby boomers, hates Obama and hates unions……….He is cranky, has little new to add to any discussion and should retire.

  3. I fully agree with George Will.

    While a few of the highly skilled IAM union machinists deserve their high pay and benefits, that vast majority of the semi and unskilled certainly do not. On average they get 3 to 4 times the going rate of what they would get in the non Boeing IAM world. Janitors for example, why are they classified as IAM aerospace machinists and get paid as such. I would guess 70% of the IAM are not what we would call highly skilled.

    The right to work states know this and pay their staff appropriately. Its the only way Boeing can viably compete against Airbus once Obama is thrown out of office and the once mighty dollar is restored to its true value instead of the current “Charmin” rate for toilet paper that is holds against the Euro.

  4. nwcolorist says:

    Seventy years ago, the unions were on top of the world. But the times have changed drastically. Unfortunately, the unions leadership has not. They have only themselves to blame for where they are.

  5. KARDNOS says:

    IQ – you go fly on a 757 made by minimum wage labor.

    The only reason Boeing has trouble competing with Airbus is……are you ready???

    NATIONAL HEALTHCARE!!!!!!

    That’s right, boys and girls! Airbus doesn’t have to pay heath care benefits for employees because they are government provided. In addition to comparable wages to US workers, the Airbus folks get about 6 weeks vacation a year.

    You see, their heath care costs don’t take into consideration that there are a flock of insurance executives skimming off the top and providers that are in bed with said insurance companies, setting the costs at an astronomical rate in comparison to Europe.

  6. ItalianSpring says:

    Wait, wait, wait. Who’s the “billion dollar man” in this coming election (the first ever in the history of the country)? Where’d he get his money? Answer: lib millionaires and billionaires.

  7. truthbusterguy says:

    menopaws says”
    He’s a senile old fart who hates baby boomers, hates Obama and hates unions”

    He sees that unions are destroying this country and telling the truth. The latest stunt by the NLRB is just wrong. In America you can’t tell a company where they can do business. I hope they move out of WA state and take all the jobs to right to work states.

    Unions are doing it to themselves. They are a cancer in this country.

  8. truthbusterguy says, “I hope they move out of WA state and take all the jobs to right to work states.”

    Here’s the problem. No matter what the Right says, they want our state to fail, so that they can blame the union, the Governor, and those who support progress.

    Thanks truthbusterguy for your honesty.

  9. KARDNOS, can you not read and understand English. Oops you are probably one of the many unskilled IAM.

    My point exactly – the high skilled workers should be paid as such. The people who sweep the floor, push parts through the aisleways do not deserve those high pay rates.

    What is a Boeing IAM janitor a grade 3 or 4 ? Parts expeditors probably grade 10. $40 an hour for pushing a broom or a cart.

    Its a scam run by the IAM who by the way are grandfathered OUT of the Obamacare program. Obama and Murray took care of that. Typical union-Democrat incest.

  10. menopaws says:

    Are you the same people who whined when the Justice Department, under Clinton, went after Microsoft? Funny thing about Democrats in power–they apply the law equally—and don’t let corporations run the country……..To be a Republican means you vote the way the oil companies, Wall Street banks and the insurance companies tell you to vote……..They are currently defending the huge oil depletion allowance tax break given to the oil companies……..Quit whining—if the Republicans win, all the skilled jobs will be shipped overseas and we’ll all be janitors……Yeah, those oil companies really NEED that tax break!!!!!!

  11. KARDNOS says:

    “Ithappened2me2 says:
    May 16, 2011 at 7:02 pm
    Looks like the kard is talking out his southern blow hole again, as usual.

    Perhaps Airbus competes because they have no liability if their product fails. It is called socialism, where the government pays their development costs and if it doesn’t work out, oh well, the heavily taxed (democrat heros) Europeans will pay the bill.”

    Let’s pretend for the moment that your analogy is true. Your answer to competing is low waged employees building airplanes that could fail, but at least their is insurance?????????

    Perhaps the south end of the north bound mule speaks as opposed to the opposite.

    Toyota lead the way for other manufacturing when they refused to build a plant in the South, despite low wages, because of the heath care costs that they’d have to pay for to compete.

    Their answer? Locate in Socialist Canada

  12. KARDNOS says:

    IQ – having worked for a short time, many years ago representing a plating company to Boeing subcontractors, I’ve seen the machinists at work. Save your rant for someone ignorant to the facts of aircraft machine work.

    By the way, plating companies do magnetic reflux and penetrant inspections of parts, thus we were on the end to find the few defections.

    Maybe you can take a blue print and turn it into an aircraft part with the plan sitting on the ground waiting. That’s called a “hot” part in the industry.

    “40 an hour for pushing a broom or a cart.” – maybe you can document that.

    You’re just another in a long line of ‘blame union labor”.

  13. KARDNOS says:

    “ItalianSpring says:
    May 16, 2011 at 6:42 pm
    Wait, wait, wait. Who’s the “billion dollar man” in this coming election (the first ever in the history of the country)? Where’d he get his money? Answer: lib millionaires and billionaires.”

    Grown adults know that the success to Obama’s campaign was millions of small donations

  14. KARDNOS says:

    ooops….typo alert!!!

    “Their” should be ‘there”

    Mind ahead of fingers….

  15. KARDNOS says:

    Funny….this study http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Boeing-Assembly-Mechanic-Hourly-Pay-E102_D_KO7,24.htm

    Shows much less than $40 per hour for an Assembly mechanic, much less a janitor….

    How’s my reading doing now?

  16. KARDNOS says:

    According to this study, engineers barely make more than IQ’s legendary janitor pushing a broom.

    http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Boeing_Company%2c_The/Salary

  17. KARDNOS, I have 30 years experience of Boeings labor rates as well as those at Airbus. Your joke is appropriate about engineers could not make less than janitors. They do.
    I had young design engineers with Aero degrees from MIT making less than the janitors at Boeing. When they complained I had no rational explanation except the unfair power of the IAM union.
    Why dont you just look at the IAM and SPEEA pay scales if you want the real facts. Clearly I cannot link it as it is Proprietary.

  18. “Why dont you just look at the IAM and SPEEA pay scales if you want the real facts. Clearly I cannot link it as it is Proprietary.”

    Did I just read that?????????

  19. The aircraft of choice for the 2008 John McCain presidential campaign? Airbus.

    Now there’s a politician who took action to show his pro-American business commitment.

  20. “The right to work states know this and pay their staff appropriately.”

    Is that why they are all at the very bottom of the income rankings?
    Why would anyone support lower wages?
    Makes no sense.

  21. The next move for Boeing should be to a foreign country. Maybe that’ll should these union whiners up.

  22. “What is a Boeing IAM janitor a grade 3 or 4 ? Parts expeditors probably grade 10. $40 an hour for pushing a broom or a cart”.

    They don’t make anywhere near that, if as you claim you had experience with the IAM, you would know that.
    You busted yourself for your own lies.

  23. As one of the more prolific posters here once admitted, he “used” to work for the TNT. BTW, whatever happened to the Seattle P.I.? Out of business you say? I wonder why. Of course paying union wages had nothing to do with that right?

  24. correction…. “maybe that’ll “shut” these union whiners up. Satisfied KARDNOS?

  25. “paying union wages had nothing to do with that right?”

    No it didn’t, in fact it was you rightist whiners that made the false claim then that it was due to the “liberal slant” of the paper.
    Neither of your idiotic ideas are correct, but that won’t stop you from spewing them again and again.

  26. puyallupmutt says:

    I agree with IQ. So many IAM employees are just lazy and overpaid. They sleep during graveyard shift, they call it nesting in the Auburn factory. Sleeping like rats behind the work areas while at work. I have friends who are low grade union members who have 2 kids in college and can comfortably afford it. Not too shabby.

  27. KARDNOS says:

    The Seattle market couldn’t support two newspapers. Simple as that. The Seattle Times was (and I believe still is) a union newspaper.

    The Times always had a larger circulation and when they went to a morning delivery, that took the edge away that the PI had.

    Of course, all of this information, including the joint operating agreement that used to exist between the two, is available online, but people like frosty would rather say stupid things.

  28. KARDNOS says:

    The News Tribune was a union newspaper until McClatchy bought it and ignored the union contracts. You’ll note that the paper is nothing like it was years ago in terms of circulation and advertising volume.

    Is that because they went non-union, frosty?

  29. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 17, 2011 at 2:23 pm
    The next move for Boeing should be to a foreign country. Maybe that’ll should these union whiners up.”

    They already outsource to foreign countries – China for one. Isn’t it great to know that the Chinese are making defense weapons for the US?

    frosty is in rare form today…..LOL

  30. KARDNOS says:

    These anti-unionists used the same complaints about the UAW.

    Of course, they don’t realize that labor only makes up 17% of the cost of an automobile

    They truly embarrass themselves with their ignorance and bluster

  31. KARDNOS says ‘you’ll note that the paper (TNT) is nothing like it was years ago in terms of circulation and advertising volume”. Nothing is like it was years ago. At least the TNT is still in business, more than I can say for some of the liberal rags that have gone under.

  32. xtp855, So it was the right wingers that caused the P.I. to go down the tubes? In the bluest state in the country/ Try again. I could count all of the conservatives in King county on one hand. None of your socialist tripe makes any sense, but that won’t stop you from repeating it. You know that a sure sign of mental illness is to keep repeating yourself, hoping that someone will believe you. No chance buddy.

  33. KARDNOS says:

    frosty……the TNT is called a liberal rag….what’s your point?

    Oh…that’s right, you don’t have a point.

    The Seattle PI was own by Hearst – not much of a liberal. Politics had nothing to do with the demise of a newspaper – advertising revenue is the issue. Just ask anyone working for McClatchy. Ask them how they are doing in Olympia where they are the only show in town.

    By the way, I emailed Eric and told him you said “hi”.

    His response was “oh geez….not that fool!!!!”

  34. KARDNOS says:

    For those who really want to know about the PI:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_PI

    Oh, uh….frosty…the PI is published daily….online. Just like many of the Conservative blogs.

  35. KARDNOS says:

    There is not hardly a day that goes by when one of the CONs on this forum calls the Tribune “liberal”…..

    but today, it’s conservative for frosty because it still prints a hard copy.

    LMAO

  36. KARDNOS says:

    http://pnwguild.org/?page_id=65

    There is a list of the union shop stewards for the PNW Newpaper Guild.

    You’ll note the largest player in the game is the Seattle Times.

    What was that you were saying, frosty???? Speak up….we can’t hear you…

  37. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    KARDNOS says:

    “Toyota lead the way for other manufacturing when they refused to build a plant in the South, despite low wages, because of the heath care costs that they’d have to pay for to compete.

    Their answer? Locate in Socialist Canada”

    Uhmm, Kardy, I suppose annoying little unvarnished details such as the fact that Toyota opened its first North American car-assembly plant in Georgetown Kentucy in 1987 still do not overshadow the glaring fact that they are also non-union in both Canada and the US.

    Prius anyone?

    Why must you taradiddle so?

  38. KARDNOS says:

    “I could count all of the conservatives in King county on one hand.”

    There’s only five Conservatives on the Eastside???? How do the continue to put Dino Rossi up for elections? Five votes gets a Congressional seat on a regular basis?

    blurring vision is probably contributing to frosty’s finger count on one hand.

    Look here, frosty…..count my finger.

  39. KARDNOS, Rossi keeps getting put up for elections with the help of the disgruntled dems who are getting sick and tired of the never ending tax hikes in King County. They start to figure out real fast when it hits them in the pocketbook. There are some dems who pay taxes you know? So the P.I. being an on-line blog is the same as hard copy now eh? Have you figured out a way to be a copy boy for a blog yet? As for the Tribune, I’ve been reading it for many years, some of the editorials I do not agree with and some I do. That’s more than I could say for the yellow journalism coming out of Seattle. In today’s society, the Tribune represents itself pretty well. Show me where I’ve ever called the Tribune a liberal rag. Finally, I looked for that finger that you mentioned but couldn’t find it. You probably had it buried in your nose.

  40. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 17, 2011 at 7:51 pm
    KARDNOS, Rossi keeps getting put up for elections with the help of the disgruntled dems” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Have one on me and Eric!

  41. frosty says. “There are some dems who pay taxes you know?”

    Who doesn’t pay taxes, frosty. We all pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes.

    We’re all in this together, remember?

  42. KARDNOS says:

    “So the P.I. being an on-line blog is the same as hard copy now eh?”

    To those who can’t read anyway…..

    What I said was that the PI is an online newspaper like many online Conservative Blogs

  43. KARDNOS says:

    “Uhmm, Kardy, I suppose annoying little unvarnished details such as the fact that Toyota opened its first North American car-assembly plant in Georgetown Kentucy in 1987 still do not overshadow the glaring fact that they are also non-union in both Canada and the US.”

    Look beyond the tip of your nose. They were supposed to open another plant more recently and located in Canada to avoid paying health care premiums. Just because someone is non-union doesn’t mean they can automatically avoid benefits, even though the Conservative billionaire owners would prefer it.

  44. KARDNOS says:

    By the way….the negotiated tax deals with the state first…..then snubbed them.

  45. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    They were supposed to open another plant more recently and located in Canada to avoid paying health care premiums.

    Actually, the primary reason for the move you cite (unless you believe krugman) – which happened 6 years ago – was due to the better educated and more productive work force in Canada. Canadian-style health care was secondary. But you need not worry, I would never dream of suggesting you painted less than half the picture. Only that you misrepresent it as the sole reason.

    Just because someone is non-union doesn’t mean they can automatically avoid benefits…

    Who said they could? And as I recall, the topic WAS about unions.

  46. LarryFine says:

    “Who doesn’t pay taxes”?

    I’ll bite… someone who earns nothing.

  47. “xtp855, So it was the right wingers that caused the P.I. to go down the tubes?”

    Where did you pull that from?
    Typical of you trolls, when you are clearly losing, you just make stuff up.

  48. xtp855, only in your mind are we losing. 4:15, May 17th. You claim that right wingers had something to do with rumors about why the P.I went down the tubes. Actually, right-wingers couldn’t give a damn as to why they went belly up. Just another rag flushed away like all other liberal nonsense.

  49. Polago, I wish you would stop using that phrase “we’re all in this together”. It’s trite and too simplistic. As I’ve told you before, I’m not in anything together with liberals. As far as I’m concerned they don’t exist. I don’t play buddy buddy with them, they ride in the wagon that conservatives push. You’ve heard the expression that there are three kinds of people, those who make things happen, those who get in the way and those who wonder what happened. I place liberals in the last two categories.

  50. Of course you do, frosty. You’ve been fed this crap by the Right wing media. It makes you feel superior, so you by into it. People like you need someone to look down on.

    We are all Americans, whether you like it or not. We’re all in this together, unless you’re anti-American.

    Would you like a list of all the phrases I’d like you to stop using? Let’s start with the one about Liberalism being some sort of mental disease. You seem to like to fling that one about whenever it suits you.

  51. Frosty
    If Rossi is a tool of disgruntled dems why do the happy right support him rather than running a food conservative (I thank you can find one over in Eltopia).

    L_F.
    A few big corporations have been known to pay no taxes while reported ly making record profits.

  52. KARDNOS says:

    “Actually, the primary reason for the move you cite (unless you believe krugman) – which happened 6 years ago – was due to the better educated and more productive work force in Canada. Canadian-style health care was secondary. But you need not worry, I would never dream of suggesting you painted less than half the picture. Only that you misrepresent it as the sole reason.”

    I’m sure the people down south in the “right to work” states will love your analysis of their ignorance and lack of production.

    I’m sure that the Right Wing is more than happy to crap on their proletariate when their underwear is showing on a financial issue.

    Oh..and blame Krugman, too.

    LOL

    So, Canadians have superior workers AND government health care. No wonder American manufacturing is heading north.

    Whatever we do, we don’t want to invest in a smarter work force or matching heath care benefits because that would be….uh……socialism!!! That’s the ticket!!!

  53. Polago, America is not a pot of stew, you may like to think that
    we are in this together” but I beg to differ with you. There are many people living in this country who claim to be “Americans”, but given the opprotunity they will carry Mexican flags, communist flags, signs calling for the downfall of America etc. Do you include these people as being “in this together”? Don’t make excuses for them either, you clearly said “we are all Americans”.

  54. xring, what is a “food conservative”. I’m also not sure what “Eltpia” is. Try to write something that makes sense.

  55. “frosty says:
    May 19, 2011 at 10:02 am
    Polago, America is not a pot of stew, you may like to think that
    we are in this together” but I beg to differ with you. There are many people living in this country who claim to be “Americans”, but given the opprotunity they will carry Mexican flags, communist flags, signs calling for the downfall of America etc. Do you include these people as being “in this together”? Don’t make excuses for them either, you clearly said “we are all Americans”.”

    frosty – is your heritage aboriginal to the continent? If not, your ancestry did exactly what you are complaining about. The illegally immigrated, killed the aboriginals, took their land, hoisted their flags and called for the elimination of the “insurgents”

  56. frosty – aren’t you the one that brought your wife and children to America from another country? Who said we needed the increased pressure on our population base. Since you married while in the military, you increased the amount of money taxpayers would have to provide you, and it was going to non-americans.

    There is more than one way to play that game.

  57. Frosty,
    ‘good’ conserative’

    ‘Eltpia’: is not in my post. Off hand I would say it either means you need new glasses are remedial reading classes.

  58. I believe the term is melting pot, frosty, not pot of stew. You’re funny.

  59. LarryFine says:

    “A few big corporations have been known to pay no taxes”

    Really ? “no taxes” ?

  60. six in a row and still nothing for L_F.

  61. LarryFine says:

    Got it… you can’t answer the question…

  62. KARDNOS, before the “aboriginals” arrived on this continent from Asia, and started destroying the continent with intentionally setting fires and slaughtering wildlife and each other, this was a pretty peaceful place. My ancestors did not “illegally” immigrate to this country, they were here before there was a Constitution, therefore, no laws of the land were in existance. It was the later ingrates (probably your ancestors) who came in and enjoyed what the true pioneers had accomplished, who let their greed get in the way of common sense. I make no apologies for bringing a wife to this country, at least we came through the front door, not across the Rio Grande. And all of my children are productive tax-payers helping to support your welfare population.

  63. xring, o.k. what is “Eltopia”? Or do you want to try and run away from it?

  64. polago, I said “pot of stew”, and that’s what I meant. Have you ever heard of “Mulligan stew”? You’re even funnier.

  65. xring, I’m waitng along with L.F for your answer, name those big corporations, o.k.?

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