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BIN LADEN: Revenge will not provide justice

Letter by Alfred K. LaMotte, Steilacoom on May 13, 2011 at 3:36 pm with 230 Comments »
May 13, 2011 3:56 pm

Did we kill Osama Bin Laden or resurrect him?

Revenge tastes sweet: It makes you dance in the streets for a little while, especially when you rationalize it as “justice.” But has revenge ever solved a single problem?

Assassinating bin Laden stirred up the militant hornets again. The Taliban murdered scores of innocent Pakistanis in vengeance. We shattered our relationship with Pakistan. Navy SEALs now fear that someone will leak their families’ home addresses.

Bin Laden lured us into wars that bankrupted our treasury, exhausted our military, and undermined our Constitution. Now, in death, he continues to seduce us into the endless Middle Eastern cycle of retaliation.

Jesus spoke passionately about breaking this bloody cycle, in which both George W. Bush and Barack Obama have involved our nation. “Love your enemy,” Jesus said, using a new word for love, “agape.” It does not mean sentimental love, but compassionate listening, until we understand how it feels to be in our enemy’s shoes. “Pray for your persecutor . . . For those who live by the sword will die by the sword.”

Confucius offered the same wisdom centuries before Jesus: “Take revenge on your enemy and you dig two graves. Forgive, and you make two friends.”

We Americans have proven that we have the guts to retaliate. But do we have the courage to make peace?

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  1. Hey Fred, we should have chopped him in pieces, wrapped them in bacon and fed them to pigs. When he came out the other side burn that, capturing the entire process on video. Then release it on YouTube. That’s the message we need to send to our enemy.

    I don’t think you understand how bad those people are and how they will die trying to bring the US down. They hate me and they hate you too, no matter what you say or do or feel about them. Until Islam as a whole denounces violence, sharia and jihad, I consider the entire religion an evil cancer and an enemy to freedom loving people everywhere.

  2. beerBoy says:

    America “the peace loving” is easy to incite to unspeakable acts – especially when we can’t really see the result.

  3. hansgruber says:

    Alfred, have you not been keeping up?

    Bin Laden has been continuing to run the show alive, encouraging his followers to “Kill Americans”.

    Leaving him alive, like Clinton did, was not a wise choice and look how it turned out?

    The world is a better off with the people of destruction, such as Bin Laden, dead.

    If, in fact, the Muslims are people of peace, we now have the opportunity to see it.

    Trust but verify and stay the course seems to have proven out.

    I am glad that Obama contunied with the policy that Clinton eventually took and Bush continued in the hunt for this evil man.

  4. fbergford says:

    Yeah we keep the peace by taking the fight to those who want to kill us!

  5. bobcat1a says:

    Parse this out for me: WE killed Bin Laden, the Pakistanis opposed our action but the Taliban killed 80 Pakistanis in revenge. That makes sense in what kind of Jabberwocky universe? Killing members of al-quaeda or Taliban should earn one a free pass to heaven. They are as rabid skunks.

  6. I think even Jesus agrees that Osama put us in the position of kill or be killed. That is not revenge, it is survival.

  7. True enough bobcat, it makes no sense in any universe I know of, but what are we doing hanging out with, or trying to vaccinate the critters. Prior to our involvement in their countries, we had no problems with one another, and they did not hate us, nor jihad us. Their view of us as the “Great Satan” and a cancer to the purity of their culture is a result of our support for dictators in their countries who don’t share their values, and because of our pursuit of their oil, and our support for Israel.

    We need to understand that we had a major role in stirring up the hornets nest. Now that their all stirred-up, they’ll try to bring us down by stinging us when and where they can.

  8. bobcat1a says:

    exactly cirrus. That’s why we will be twice as secure when we cut our “defense” spending in half.

  9. ItalianSpring says:

    Hey Mohammed. I’m not Jesus, so don’t expect me to sacrifice even one of my cheeks. Jackass.

  10. NWflyfisher says:

    Alfred,

    Mark 4:24: And he [Jesus] said to them, “Pay attention to what you hear: with the measure you use, it will be measured to you, and still more will be added to you.

    In other words, you reap what you sow. Bin Laden got his “just reward.”

  11. beerBoy says:

    “Leaving him alive, like Clinton did, was not a wise choice”

    But it was a great idea for W?

  12. beerBoy says:

    nwf – rather bizarre interpretation of Scripture.

    ‘Consider carefully what you hear,’ he continued. ‘With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.’ (Mark 4:24–25)

    In context of the chapter it is clear that Jesus’ is rebuking his followers for not understanding his words. It seems his rebuke applies to you as well.

  13. agent8698 says:

    Alfred, you say:
    “Do we have the courage to make peace?” What do you mean by the words “make peace”? The Islamists, of which there are many, have launched over 17,000 terror attacks since 9/11: http://thereligionofpeace.com/ . Here is a quotation on that same website by Daniel Greenfield:

    “There is a reason we call it Islamic terrorism, and it isn’t
    because we falsely attribute motives to the terrorists, but
    because Islam is the stated purpose and aim of the terrorists.”

    They understand very well the Koranic doctrine of abrogation, which means that the violent verses in the Koran abrogate and supercede the peaceful ones: http://www.islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml Exactly how do you suggest we make peace with such people? They do not allow freedom of religion. They do not allow a people to form their own government.

  14. leehallfae says:

    Never was about justice. It was about making spilling our blood too high a price.

    “We cannot protect every water pipe from being blown up, nor every tree from being uprooted. Nor can we prevent the murder of the workers in the orchards, nor of families in their beds, but we can exact a high price for a blood, a price too high for the Arab community, the Arab army, the Arab governments to pay.”
    Moshe Dayan, 1955.

  15. KARDNOS says:

    “Bush continued in the hunt for this evil man.”

    The re-writing of history continues as we speak.

    “I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.”GW Bush, 3/2001

  16. KARDNOS says:

    “My name is Daniel Greenfield. I’m a blogger and columnist born in Israel and currently living in New York City. I am a contributing editor at Family Security Matters.” http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Family_Security_Matters

    Now that we’ve covered that source…….

    A woman, of no particular claim to fame called in to a radio show last week and said that as a Christian ministry student she was required to read the entire Quran. Upon doing so she understood the description “religion of peace”. Granted, she has nothing to sell and no ax to grind.

  17. tommy98466 says:

    Hey Fred… How come you are not vilifying Bush & Cheney for this hit? If Bush was still the President you would be squeeling like a stuck pig about everything you left, crybaby, cowards do everyday. Pathetic.

  18. Roncella says:

    agent8698, Your post says it all.

    KARDNOS, and other muslim terrorist apoligists read what agent8698 posted and learn somthing for once in your life.

  19. Jesus also told a parable about a king who sent a man to death for not dressing properly for a wedding feast. It was a parable about the kingdom of heaven.

    That same Jesus speaks of separating sheep from goats and sending the goats to hell.

    Likewsie, Jesus, The Prince of Peace, spoke about the fact that he came bearing a sword that would divide friend from friend, mother from child, etc.

    If you’re going to talk about Jesus, give consideration to the whole picture of him, if you would please.

  20. OK…let’s talk about Jesus……

    Matt 22:2-14 “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king, who made a marriage feast for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the marriage feast, but they would not come. Again he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “Behold, I have made ready my dinner. My oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the marriage feast!”‘ But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his merchandise, and the rest grabbed his servants, and treated them shamefully, and killed them. When the king heard that, he was angry, and he sent his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited weren’t worthy. Go therefore to the intersections of the highways, and as many as you may find, invite to the marriage feast.’ Those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together as many as they found, both bad and good. The wedding was filled with guests. But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man who didn’t have on wedding clothing, and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here not wearing wedding clothing?’ He was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and throw him into the outer darkness; there is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.’ For many are called, but few chosen.”

    Now, someone please explain how Jesus was endorsing killing…..and if this is a parable about the kindom of heaven……heaven can wait, as far as I’m concerned.

    Now I must admit I don’t have the magic decoder ring any longer….

    Maybe, and I’m just spitballing here, this is one more example of man’s need to misrepresent the “word of spirits” for power and gain.

  21. If we are going to “talk about Jesus”, let’s remember that those authors who wrote about “Jesus” didn’t do so until some 50 to 100 years AFTER his death, which means they were probably working with verbal history.

    As we view these forums, we all know how history gets rewritten…..

  22. “tommy98466 says:
    May 14, 2011 at 8:39 am
    Hey Fred… How come you are not vilifying Bush & Cheney for this hit? If Bush was still the President you would be squeeling like a stuck pig about everything you left, crybaby, cowards do everyday. Pathetic.”

    Maybe because Bush and Cheney failed to achieve success, tommy

    As to cowards – Bush and Cheney figured out how to avoid Vietnam. John Kerry and Max Clelland volunteered for combat. Who is to the “left” and who is to the “right”?

  23. Speaking of avoiding VietNam KARDNOS, what gives you the right to judge anyone for running from the draft? Try something that you’re more familiar with like searching the Web for your newest talking points.

  24. Since you equate draft dodging as “cowards” maybe you should reflect on your on history. And BTW don’t accuse me of avoiding Vietnam, I served two tours there, I hate to break up your little preconceived notions of what I am and where I served. I just don’t go around broadcasting it to people who didn’t have the guts to do the right thing, but later in life will say “I had friends who served in Vietnam”. Sickening and disgusting.

  25. Speaking of the Bible…Bart Ehrman’s Forged concludes that many of the scriptures are fakes that came later.

    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/walter-c-uhler/36147/centuries-of-lying-in-the-name-of-christianity-a-review-of-bart-d-ehrmans-forged

  26. old_benjamin says:

    When the Kingdom of God is realized on earth, there will be no need for retributive justice. Until that day, it is a necessity. Can you imagine a society without police, courts, and prisons? That’s Somalia–not the Kindgdom of God, and certainly not anywhere Alfred Lamotte would care to live

  27. Roncella says:

    Poor Kardnos, He tries so hard to be right about so many different topics, but he’s usually wrong or so stubborn that he looks silly and foolish and can be annoying all at the same time.

  28. Kardnos, your knowledge and understanding of the Bible is so obviously limited and biased, you’ll forgive me if I do not engage with you except to say that those who call themselves Christian and stick their fingers in their ears when scripture clearly reflects Christ as judge (not some sort of Good Witch Glenda who flits around coating things with sugar) are willfully ignorant and apparently want to stay that way.

    Bboy, clearly those who deny the authority of scripture will not be convinced BY scripture. If you think it’s fake, why would you?

    I was attempting to engage those here who claim to be Christian and actually have a working familiarity with the Bible.

  29. Not only did it not provide justice, but it will IMO ,not make us any more safe.

  30. alindasue says:

    I started posting here with the intent to pull out this scripture and that to prove how Jesus supported peace and that he said that vengence belonged to Heavenly Father and how we shouldn’t cast stones… and then I realized that I’d be stumbling into the realm of “Bible bashing” – which is itself in the spirit of contention… So I erased everything and started over.

    There’s an old saying about “an eye for an eye until the whole world is blind.” One side attacks because the other side is “evil”, and then the other side “proves” to them (in the eyes of the first side) just how evil they are by attacking back with a vengence. Then the first side attacks back also to enact vengence against the second side… and so on. The sides have many different names, and yesterday’s “friend” is today’s “enemy” is tomorrow’s “ally”, but the story is the same throughout the millinnia. Always, there’s someone declaring someone else “evil” and the process begins again.

    I know quite a few Muslims and they are all, for the most part, good peaceful people. I’ve read some of their scriptures and found that they are no more inciting to violence when read in context than our Christian Bible is when read in context. When read out of context, as some some sites on the internet are inclined to do, both the Quran and the Bible can seem equally violent and inciteful.

    Roncella said, “KARDNOS, and other muslim terrorist apoligists read what agent8698 posted and learn somthing for once in your life.”

    Roncella, he did read what agent8698 (a Get Smart fan?) said and, upon researching the source of the information, chose to dismiss it as biased and unreliable. Note KARDNOS’s quote from the author cited by agent8698:

    “My name is Daniel Greenfield. I’m a blogger and columnist born in Israel and currently living in New York City. I am a contributing editor at Family Security Matters.”

    I agree with him that given his history, Daniel Greenfield would not be a reliable source to learn unbiased facts about Muslims from.

    Mr. LaMotte, you asked, “We Americans have proven that we have the guts to retaliate. But do we have the courage to make peace?”

    Judging by the bulk of the replies to your letter, I find I must sadly reply, “No.”
    I pray that someday the people of this country may develope that courage though, for all of our sakes.

    peace

  31. Roncella says:

    alindasue, You are living in the greatest Country in the World. I feel blessed and lucky to have been borned an American.

    The killing of bin laden was long over due. The fact that many Americans celebrated his death especially New Yorkers and the Military folks stationed here and all over the World was a statement to all the other violent muslims and others who would do harm to America or Americans, BEWARE, think twice before you commit violent acts of murder and hatred against Americans especially on America Soil.

    I am very proud of the actions President Obama took and the C.I.A. and the Navy Seals, thank God they had the courage of their confictions to follow through and bring jutice to bin laden just as they did.

    I have no sympathy for hitler, bin laden or stalin or any other past dictator, communist, or what have you who killed innocent people in their desire to control their Country or the World.

    Alindasue, take a min. and reflect just how fortunate you really are to live in America.

  32. borned?

  33. Roncella says:

    Polago, you get the gold star today for a spelling error.

    Its noteworthy that with that whole post thats all you could find to comment on.
    Very disappointing, and small on your part. Thanks…..

  34. the3rdpigshouse says:

    The maggot is dead – lets move on to the next target!!!!

  35. Your rite, Roncella. Your rite alot.

  36. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    alindasue, You are living in the greatest Country in the World. I feel blessed and lucky to have been borned an American.”

    That’s it. I have finally determined that “Roncella” is a joke post. No one would submit the word “borned” .

    Roncella, I have to admit, you got me. I was thinking that you were just a dumb Conservative. Instead you just faked “dumb conservative” and I bought it hook, line and sinker.

    There is nothing I love better than good satire and your’s was brilliant.

  37. KARDNOS says:

    sozo…..now I said I didn’t have a secret decoder ring……

    Nothing pleases me more than when someone claims you “have to be a Christian” to comprehend the Bible. When you consider that over half of it is Jewish legend, the “have to be Christian” really demonstrates the arrogance of a sector of the faith.

  38. KARDNOS says:

    Polago….you remember that Bruce Springberg song….

    Borned inna USA, I was borned inna USA……

    Or was it Bruce Winesteen?

  39. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 14, 2011 at 10:19 am
    Since you equate draft dodging as “cowards” maybe you should reflect on your on history. And BTW don’t accuse me of avoiding Vietnam, I served two tours there, I hate to break up your little preconceived notions of what I am and where I served. I just don’t go around broadcasting it to people who didn’t have the guts to do the right thing, but later in life will say “I had friends who served in Vietnam”. Sickening and disgusting.”

    frosty said he was in stationed Germany in 1972. That’s a long way from Vietnam, but a safe distance. He, Bush and Cheney knew how to avoid combat.

    Those of us who were not drafted, although eligible for the draft, dodged nothing. We didn’t take a cushy position in Alabama or Europe. We just sat on a 1A status and worked and paid taxes so that there were military positions outside the combat zone for people who wanted to avoid combat.

    Thank America, for taxpayers like me that provided safe haven for those who needed a military pay check, but couldn’t handle combat.

    I’m certainly glad that we had Americans like John Kerry and Max Clelland who volunteered to serve and were decorated for their honorable service.

  40. The biggest draft dodge was the Guard and Reserves.

    But they only worked for the rich and connected.

  41. KARDNOS says:

    xring – a very smart friend of mine, upon drawing a low draft number, enlisted in the Coast Guard and after basic training, was stationed in Hawaii.

    According to frosty, that isn’t draft dodging. My friend dodged all the way to paradise.

  42. Whoa Polago. I’m surprised you’ve let the pettiness bug bite you today.

  43. sozo says:
    May 14, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Kardnos, your knowledge and understanding of the Bible is so obviously limited and biased…

    sozo, it may be biased but not limited. As a one time United Methodist Church youth director, he has an extensive book knowledge of the Bible and can go toe to toe with the best.

  44. alindasue says:

    Roncella said, “Alindasue, take a min. and reflect just how fortunate you really are to live in America.”

    Roncella,
    While “greatest country in the world”is purely subjective and usually relative to where one’s home country is, I do feel myself fortunate to have been born in the United States. You seem to question my patriotism because I am a pacifist but, as I’ve told you before, my love for this country is not yours to question.

    It does appear that my views on how to express that patriotism do differ from yours. You seem to think it involves cheering and flag waving as our forces display their military might. On the other hand, I see patriotism more as a responsibility as a citizen and a voter to maintain constant vigilence in insuring that the principles of the Constitution are not ignored in moments of panic or political expediency.

  45. beerBoy says:

    sozo:

    Ehrman commenced his studies at a fundamentalist Bible college, Moody Bible Institute, before completing his undergraduate education at Wheaton College. While at Wheaton, Ehrman did what every serious student of the New Testament must do; he studied Greek. As he explained, “I took Greek, so that I could read the New Testament in its original language.” [p. 4]

    After graduating from Wheaton, Ehrman went to Princeton Theological Seminary, where he studied under one of the world’s great experts on the Greek New Testament, the late Bruce Metzger.

  46. Roncella said, “The fact that many Americans celebrated his death especially New Yorkers and the Military folks stationed here and all over the World was a statement to all the other violent muslims and others who would do harm to America or Americans, BEWARE, think twice before you commit violent acts of murder and hatred against Americans especially on America Soil.”

    It isn’t the celebration that sends whatever message you think we sent, Roncella, it was the relentless pursuit, and the “you can run but you can’t hide,” message that might (but I doubt it) deter others from considering violent acts against Americans.

    Remember just after 9/11 when it was reported that there was celebration amongst some middle easterners? How did that make you feel, Roncella? Did that celebration send a message to you to “think twice” before you consider retaliating against terrorists? I don’t think so. I think it stirred you up. It made you want to hit them back, all the harder. It gave you greater purpose.

    Fred is correct, “Revenge tastes sweet: It makes you dance in the streets for a little while, especially when you rationalize it as “justice.” But has revenge ever solved a single problem?”

    Not hardly, Fred. It usually makes matters worse.

    We’re all relieved that Bin Laden is out there no more. That should be enough.

  47. Ithappened2me2 says:

    dejen2 says:
    MAY 14, 2011 AT 10:26 PM
    sozo says:
    May 14, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Kardnos, your knowledge and understanding of the Bible is so obviously limited and biased…

    sozo, it may be biased but not limited. As a one time United Methodist Church youth director, he has an extensive book knowledge of the Bible and can go toe to toe with the best.

    Looks like the snail made another name to make himself look good.

    :::::eye roll left::::: :::::eye roll right:::::

  48. It happened to you too.

  49. madmike272 says:

    Lamotte – Leftist coward!

  50. Roncella says:

    Polago, Theres a very old saying “pay back is hell”. the rotten scum bin laden got his payback, it just took awhile for him to get to his virgins.

    With all the history I have witnessed and read about the only thing the Communist and dictators, Socialist, terrorists, respect and fear is power and strength, like a very strong Military.

    Example, do you really think that Israel would still be around if it did not have a very extensive, well trained, Military, ready to defend its citizens at a moments notice ?? This tiny Country is surrounded by Countries wanting to destroy its very existance.

    How can you compare the extreme terrorists muslims celebrating the 9-11 airplane bombings and celebrating the death of so many innocent Americans that terrible day, to Americans celebrating the death of an evil sick bin laden ???

  51. KARDNOS says:

    “With all the history I have witnessed and read about the only thing the Communist and dictators, Socialist, terrorists, respect and fear is power and strength, like a very strong Military.”

    Try reading more. The dictator in China loves having the US right where they want them…….in debt to them

    As to a strong military, the largest military in the world was taken to its knees on 9/11/01 by two dozen terrorists, mostly Saudi.

  52. KARDNOS says:

    “Ithappened2me2 says:
    May 15, 2011 at 7:43 am
    dejen2 says:
    MAY 14, 2011 AT 10:26 PM
    sozo says:
    May 14, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Kardnos, your knowledge and understanding of the Bible is so obviously limited and biased…

    sozo, it may be biased but not limited. As a one time United Methodist Church youth director, he has an extensive book knowledge of the Bible and can go toe to toe with the best.

    Looks like the snail made another name to make himself look good.

    :::::eye roll left::::: :::::eye roll right:::::

    It looks like ItOfTwoNames is wrong again.

    Denjen2 is one of my two stalkers. It was not intended to be a compliment, although somewhere Denjen2 is beating its head against a brick wall because of the unintended compliment.

  53. KARDNOS, you’re right I was in Germany in 1972, I was in Vietnam in ’65-’66, ’68-’69. I was also in Germany ’57-’62, and Korea ’74-’75, and ’85-’87. Does that help a little? Or do want to persist in making yourself look even more stupid than you already have?

  54. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Nice try in changing history. 9-11 did not bring Americas Military to its knees, it caused death and destruction to thousands of innocent folks.

    The muslim coward terrorists were too chicken to take on America’s Military.

    Once again your warped version of the issues being discussed have to be corrected.

  55. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, You haven’t answered my question,

    How Can You Compare the extreme violent muslims celebrating the 9-11 Airplane attacks on America to Americans celebrating the death of an evil rotten bin laden ????

  56. “Roncella says:
    May 15, 2011 at 9:36 am
    KARDNOS, Nice try in changing history. 9-11 did not bring Americas Military to its knees, it caused death and destruction to thousands of innocent folks.”

    And the American military spent trillions of dollars, thousands of lives and the next ten years on “who dun it”

    Now to answer your question – my question. When did I compare the “Muslim celebrations” (as if someone checked their religious ID) to the Americans celebrating Bin Laden’s death? Please copy and paste my post where I compared the two.

    Just for your education, Roncella – “Americans” are not the opposite of “Muslims”. There are Muslims worldwide – even in America.

  57. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Since you seem to know alot about muslims, would you say that extreme violent muslims were responsibile for 9-11 plane bombings ???

  58. “Roncella says:
    May 15, 2011 at 10:08 am
    KARDNOS, Since you seem to know alot about muslims, would you say that extreme violent muslims were responsibile for 9-11 plane bombings ???”

    What we KNOW about 9/11 is that the majority of the terrorists were Saudi, thus probably Muslim (which begs the question as to why they would have ties to a secular Saddam, but that is too deep for Roncella).

    I also know that extreme violent Christians are responsible for bombing medical clinics and black churches.

    What’s your point?

  59. Roncella, you didn’t copy and paste my comparison because it doesn’t exist.

  60. “The muslim coward terrorists were too chicken to take on America’s Military.”

    Thus the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cowardly?

  61. KARDNOS, how many chairs did you polish with your butt while spending the majority of you life sitting in a classroom being brain-washed by commie professors? To think that a person could waste their life in a classroom and then end up being a copy boy and dock worker for a newspapaer is disappointing, I can only hope for the sake of your parents that you managed to weasel out some scholarships and not leech off of your parents for the time you spent shining the chairs in school.

  62. KARDNOS, are you saying that our military were cowards for bombing Japan?

  63. frosty….that is Roncella’s statement. The Muslims didn’t “take on” the American military, thus the American military didn’t “take on” the Japanese military when they killed 100s of 1000s of Japanese citizens in those bombing raids.

    It’s simple logic, but I know that logic isn’t taught in the military.

  64. Now, fosty, as to my education and career – I paid for my education by working while attending school. Remember, my tax dollars provided a safe haven for you to polish chairs.

    My time at the Trib was on the dock and delivering copy, but….unlike a non-com that stalls in place in their career, I went on to marketing and management of newspapers and commercial printing in addition to other industries.

    If you want more of my resume, you’ll have to be offering me a job in excess of $60K a year. That’s my bottom line as I near retirement.

    Heck, I know that’s not much, but someone has to keep paying taxes so that you can get your checks and benefits from the government.

    Let me guess….you think the TEA Party is the cat’s meow……LOL

  65. “frosty says:
    May 15, 2011 at 10:25 am
    To think that a person could waste their life in a classroom?

    that is one thing we won’t accuse frosty of doing.

  66. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, What do think the U.S. should have done to Japan in response to Pearl Harbor ??

    Extreme Violent Christians ?

    I don’t recall Christians using planes to kill folks or road side bombs to kill with or blowing up markets filled with women and children, but then maybe you can google some examples.

  67. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, I have associated with both very highly educated types and folks like myself with just average educational levels and have found that there is good and bad types in both.

    Just having alot of book smarts don’t make You any Better or smarter than the next person.

    KARDNOS, How is it that you have such extreme far left views on so many issues??

  68. ItalianSpring says:

    flamotte. LOL. That’s free lib entertainment, baby yeah.

  69. Roncella…..so Hiroshima and Nagasaki were in response to Pearl Harbor?

    That’s a new concept! LOL

    “KARDNOS, How is it that you have such extreme far left views on so many issues??”

    it is a perspective from where you come, Roncella. I voted 40% Republican in 2008. Did you vote 40% Democrat?

    My “extreme left” derives from your Nazi Right Wing position.

  70. “Roncella says:
    May 15, 2011 at 10:47 am
    Just having alot of book smarts don’t make You any Better or smarter than the next person.”

    Roncella….cut it out! Yer killin’ me……HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Isn’t it “book larnin'”?

  71. “I don’t recall Christians using planes to kill folks or road side bombs to kill with or blowing up markets filled with women and children, but then maybe you can google some examples.”

    No, the Christian extremists bombed churches and medical clinics, as I already said. Maybe you know the story of the little girls in the South being blown up after Sunday School? How about the medical clinics blown up by the Army of God?

    (waiting for the “those weren’t real Christians” line)

  72. Roncella asks, “How can you compare the extreme terrorists muslims celebrating the 9-11 airplane bombings and celebrating the death of so many innocent Americans that terrible day, to Americans celebrating the death of an evil sick bin laden ???”

    Because it’s apples and apples. It’s the celebration that’s being compared, not the reason for the celebration.

    Do you care to respond to my query, Roncella? “How did that make you feel, Roncella? Did that celebration send a message to you to “think twice” before you consider retaliating against terrorists? I don’t think so. I think it stirred you up. It made you want to hit them back, all the harder. It gave you greater purpose.”

    That’s what they feel when we celebrate their loss. So don’t try to tell us that our celebrations send “a statement to all the other violent muslims and others who would do harm to America or Americans, BEWARE, think twice before you commit violent acts of murder and hatred against Americans especially on America Soil.” The revelers don’t get to take that credit.

    Again, it isn’t the celebration that sends the message, it’s the diligence of our resolve.

  73. Roncella asks, “Example, do you really think that Israel would still be around if it did not have a very extensive, well trained, Military, ready to defend its citizens at a moments notice ?? This tiny Country is surrounded by Countries wanting to destroy its very existance.”

    Notice that nowhere in that question do you ask about their celebrations, Roncella. What does this have to do with your comment about our celebrations sending messages to terrorists?

  74. Roncella says, “Theres a very old saying “pay back is hell”. the rotten scum bin laden got his payback, it just took awhile for him to get to his virgins.”

    Fred says, “Revenge tastes sweet: It makes you dance in the streets for a little while, especially when you rationalize it as “justice.” But has revenge ever solved a single problem?”

    Has revenge ever solved a single problem, Roncella?

  75. Roncella says:

    Polago, I am proud of our Country finding and ending the life of an evil creep bin laden.

    Many celebrated when it became official and certain that bin laden was dead.

    Not celebrating his death would not have made the muslim terrorists like America or Americans any better, believe that.

    You should be thankfull bin laden is dead, you almost sound disappointed that some Americans chose to celebrate his death.

    I’d say America had plenty of resolve in finding and bringing the bum bin laden to Justice.

  76. KARDNOS says:
    May 15, 2011 at 10:15 am
    Roncella, you didn’t copy and paste my comparison because it doesn’t exist.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/13/revenge-is-not-justice/#ixzz1MRpxQD9J

  77. I’d say America should be thankful to have a President who had the resolve to get the job done, as opposed to throwing in the towel as the sitting president did in March of 2002.

    There is something to be said about a man with courage of conviction.

  78. Ehrman’s conclusions notwithstanding, the canon has somehow been sustained by Christians for 2000 years. Call it folly, but then note that is seems quite typical of God to confound the wise and laud the simple.

    When he invited people to come “as children” it’s clear that erudition was not a criteria for being in a relationship with God…unless of course, those witnesses were lying about Jesus’ comments about coming to faith as children.

    What do you think that it means to come as a child bBoy?

  79. P.S. — the comments about scriptural forgeries doesn’t really address the issue we were discussing. Whatever your reasons, if you treat the scriptures as authoritative (solo scriptura) you are going to have one world view; if you do not, the Bible is just another book.Isn’t that the bottom line, bBoy?

  80. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, I suggest you get some professional help in treating your Bush Hate Sickness.

  81. hansgruber says:

    KARDNOS says:
    May 15, 2011 at 11:43 am
    I’d say America should be thankful to have a President who had the resolve to get the job done, as opposed to throwing in the towel as the sitting president did in March of 2002.
    There is something to be said about a man with courage of conviction

    Yeah-GW said OBL just wasn’t a priority

    “The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.”
    – G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

    “I want justice…There’s an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive,'”
    – G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

    Sept 23, 2001-The United States Secretary of State Colin Powell on Sunday announced a $ 25 million reward for information leading to the apprehension of Osama bin Laden

    March 1, 2006-Bush reiterated his vow that Osama bin Laden and deposed Taliban ruler Mohammad Omar would be “captured or brought to justice,”

    June 15, 2008-Get Osama Bin Laden before I leave office, orders George W Bush

  82. It must really bug the daylights out of you that Obama accomplished what Bush couldn’t?

  83. KARDNOS says:

    Hans – let me help you. You seem to be challenged by the March 2002 quote from Bush as there is a big gap from September 2001 to March 2006 :

    ” Who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not. We haven’t heard from him in a long time. The idea of focusing on one person really indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. He’s just a person who’s been marginalized…. I don’t know where he is. I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.”

    Like I said……threw in the towel.

  84. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    KARDNOS, I suggest you get some professional help in treating your Bush Hate Sickness.”

    Roncella, why hate a man that was used as a puppet to front the Right Wing business concerns for eight years? Bush was a name. He proved to be a fool that stumbled on the English language, with assistance of a teleprompter. He was known to talk with his mouth full at state dinners and groped the Chancellor of Germany.

    This is not the stuff of birth certificates and rappers at the White House. These are the foibles of a totally inadequate candidate that was selected by the Supreme Court and had votes manipulated in Ohio in 2004. He was the best candidate that money could buy, which is why we don’t want big business buying candidates.

    Hate…..no. Pity…….yes.

  85. Roncella says:

    Polago, you take great pleasure in the fact that the creep bin laden was found and murdered on OBamas watch instead of Bushes watch why not just be grateful for his death ?

    You keep posting that some might be bugged that Obama got to give the go get bin laden order rather than Bush, your being petty and childish, and it shows.

  86. Roncella says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    KARDNOS, I suggest you get some professional help in treating your Bush Hate Sickness.

  87. The pleasure I get is in watching you dance all around this issue, Roncella.

    Can’t you just be relieved that Bin Laden has been stopped? Do you have to celebrate his death? Are you that far gone?

  88. Do you have to suggest that someone is sick if they don’t agree with your politics, Roncella?

  89. beerBoy says:

    sozo – I don’t think the Bible is just another book, just not the only book. It has truth even with its inconsistencies, contradictions and false attributions of authorship. But there are other books with truth.

  90. Roncella says:

    Polago, I have never said you were sick, mis-informed and wrong on the issues, Yes thats for certain.

    There are no politicians I hate, unlike some liberals who hate and have little to no sense of humor.

  91. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    There are no politicians I hate, unlike some liberals who hate and have little to no sense of humor.”

    Can’t be me. I think Roncella is the funniest thing I’ve read on forums

  92. alindasue says:

    sozo said, “When he invited people to come “as children” it’s clear that erudition was not a criteria for being in a relationship with God…unless of course, those witnesses were lying about Jesus’ comments about coming to faith as children.”

    Sozo,
    There is a difference between childlike and childish. To be “childish” just means that a person is immature. To be “childlike” or “like unto a child” is to have honesty, a sense of wonder, and a DESIRE TO LEARN just like that of a small child.

  93. larsman says:

    Alfred, so your personal decision is to submit to Islam then?…

    Water seeks the path of least resistance, yet stands for nothing…
    lacking a backbone..
    .
    Please trouble yourself to read their gameplan, the Qur’an…

    Or, switch places with the Egyptian Coptics for a day…

  94. You’ve referred to Liberalism as a mental disease numerous times, Roncella, not to mention the Bush Hate Sickness found in your previous post, so you can’t deny your inference that I’m somehow sick.

    I would contend that you’ve expressed similar feelings about BO as many here have about GWB, but somehow it’s hate when it comes from the left, but humor when it comes from you.

    As far as being misinformed and wrong on the issues, that goes both ways in any disagreement.

    War is not the path to peace. Peace is.

  95. crusader says:

    Polago –

    When your enemy declares war as the islamic terrorists did on 9 11, Khobar Towers, The Cole, etc… you can choose to fight back and win or choose to surrender.

    Waffling the past 10 years because of opinions such as yours hasn’t accomplished much.

    It’s time we nuke ‘em all and let Allah sort ‘em out.

  96. larsman says:

    Bb eulogizes – “.Bart Ehrman’s . No end of the convolutions, Bb, when attempting to defend such writers that operate with one eye closed and at less than 50% capacity of understanding the mechanics of honest scholarship.
    Example from your liberal agnostic author is his self-confounding assertion of the apparent contradiction of Jesus’s geneology between Luke and Matthew.

    Let me explain this werry,werry slowly for you and your author friend:
    Genealogy one is through Mary,
    Genealogy two is from Joseph.
    It is not contradictory, rather it is complimentary.
    Try another half-baked web site…

  97. Fighting back and winning is fine with me, crusader. Nuking them all is a bit over the top. But then……….

    Terrorists don’t declare war, they just terrorize. They don’t wear uniforms or regiment themselves in any conventional way. Weeding them out requires intelligence, surveillance, and covert operations. I’m fine with Obama’s appreciation of Bin Laden, but I won’t celebrate the death of another human being. And don’t give me that “he wasn’t a human being” line, not if you believe in God.

    I’m relieved that Bin Laden is out of commission.

  98. Lars,
    Why would the Bible give a genealogy for Jesus thru Joseph when there is no blood relationship between the two?

  99. Publico says:

    The real question is: Why are there terrorists in the first place? Can the answer be boiled down to a fairly simple statement? I think so, but I would rather see what everyone else thinks.
    Regards

  100. A child’s mind is open, receptive, questioning, and without hate or preconceptions.

  101. Ithappened2me2 says:

    There are terrorists because they hate the USA as it is shaped by the liberals. But then again, those same terrorists have been found to have participated in the USA values that they rail against. Basically, they are terrorist hypocrites.

  102. KARDNOS says:

    “Ithappened2me2 says:
    May 15, 2011 at 7:22 pm
    There are terrorists because they hate the USA as it is shaped by the liberals.”

    Thus if the US becomes Conservative it will be more like a terrorist nation.

  103. Theoldsergeant says:

    Gee, I wish Alfred would get our enemies to love us instead of the other way around. Always seems to be a one way street though. I guess we can love them while we bomb and kill the hell out of them before they do the same to us. Those who get there firstest wins!

    When I first learned that Bin Laden had been killed I felt relief and a heavy burden lifted from me. Maybe Alfred can explain that!

  104. hansgruber says:

    Palago-I applaude President Obama for continuing the hunt for Bin Laden. I applaude him for continuing the tax cuts for all Americans too.

    Kardnos-Throwing the towel? LOL

    It was President Bill Clinton who launched the hunt for bin Laden. After the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Clinton signed what some former U.S. officials called a “covert action finding” authorizing CIA operations against al Qaeda, then regarded as a marginal Islamic militant faction with an eccentric, Saudi-born leader.
    But some Clinton aides, led by attorney general Janet Reno, were concerned about the legality of killing bin Laden, former top intelligence and counter-terrorism officials said. Clinton’s orders permitted U.S. forces to kill bin Laden in self-defense, but the prime directive was to capture him and bring him to justice in the United States.
    The September 11, 2001, attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania instantly made such scruples seem anachronistic.
    Bush’s September 17, 2001, order, which is still highly classified, authorized the CIA to use all methods at its disposal — explicitly including deadly force — to wipe out al Qaeda and its leaders.
    Presidential covert action findings never expire unless a president issues a new written order suspending or revoking them, current and former U.S. national security officials told Reuters. So Bush’s nine-and-a-half-year-old order remained a key legal authority under which Obama launched the commando raid that led to bin Laden’s death.
    It was perhaps inevitable, then, that partisans of both men and their political parties would claim the lion’s share of credit for bin Laden’s demise.
    Bush’s order was both sweeping and general in the powers it granted to the CIA to launch operations against al Qaeda.

    http://www.realclearworld.com/news/reuters/international/2011/May/12/special_report__the_bin_laden_kill_plan.html

  105. beerBoy says:

    “The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaida courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaida, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaida. In fact, the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed produced false and misleading information.”
    John McCain

  106. KARDNOS says:

    “So Bush’s nine-and-a-half-year-old order remained a key legal authority under which Obama launched the commando raid that led to bin Laden’s death”

    It took the encyclopedia and four volumes of Shakespear for Hans to get out the one sentence that he was trying to pull……”Bush caught Bin Laden”

    Remind me to not ask Hans the time. I’ll get a drawing of how to build a watch in return.

  107. The difference between BO’s hunt for Bin Laden and GWB’s is that GWB spent his (our) energies overtly looking in Iraq, whereas BO covertly looked where Bin Laden was likely to be holed up. He played his cards close to the vest and it paid off. Although the world needed to know that Bin Laden was neutralized, playing it up as some sort of victory “Mission Accomplished” and using it as a justification for torture, makes me wonder if it would have been better off to have kept it quiet.

    As for the Bush tax cuts, the sooner they go away, the better off our economy will be. They’ve created more debt and allowed the uber-wealthy (not that I have anything against anyone having wealth) to accumulate that which would be better off circulating throughout our economy, generating jobs and the tax revenue to pay our debts. But that’s a subject for another discussion, hansgruber.

  108. Roncella says:

    Hansgruber, Your post has caused the usual bunch of Obama worshipers to come out of the woodwork over who gets credit for murdering the scumb bin laden.

    It humorous watching the liberals squealing and twisting and turning like a pretzel to keep any and all credit for the killing of bin laden squarely on Obama shoulders Only, no one else gets any credit, in their eyes just Obama.

    Very disappointing and sad and comical all at the same time.

  109. Children are also unsophisticated. They have not had their hearts or minds sullied by speculation and “learnin'” — One does not need an education to run into Jesus’ arms and feel his embrace.

  110. bBoy, I appreciate the respect you show for the Bible, and I know full well that there is wisdom for the ages in other relgious writings, but I accept the Holy Bible as it’s been passed to us through time, represents the word of God and I treat it as authoritative. Yes, there’s room for discussion and interpretation, but in my view, there is no room for revisionist activity re the foundational canon.

  111. Maybe if Bush didn’t waste all that time looking for WMDs under Oval Office desks he might have found bin Laden.

  112. The Bible has been revised many times.

  113. aislander says:

    KARD: In a letter critiquing someone’s spelling, YOU came up with “your’s.” The word requires no apostrophe. Pot/kettle, and all that…

  114. Hansgruber, Your post has caused the usual bunch of Bush apologists to come out of the woodwork over who gets credit for murdering the scumb bin laden.

  115. “your’s” is correct if implying a possessive

    try again.

  116. “What’s the difference between yours and your’s? … Yours vs Your’s. What’s the difference between yours and your’s? Yours. Yours is the second person possessive pronoun”

    No charge for the English lesson.

  117. aislander says:

    As proof that pride goes before a fall, I meant to write: “In a post,” rather than “In a letter…”

  118. aislander says:

    You don’t make yourself right by insisting that your are right. Try typing “your’s” into Word. Hope you like red, squiggly lines…

  119. hansgruber says:

    But there was one constant in the search for bin Laden. On September 17, 2001, six days after the 9/11 attacks, President George W. Bush issued a still-classified “finding” that gave the CIA “lethal authorities” to deal with the al Qaeda leader and his top lieutenants. Ever since, there was an expectation — even a preference — that bin Laden would be killed, not captured, Bush and Obama administration officials said.

    The same day that Bush signed the directive, he publicly declared bin Laden was wanted “dead or alive.”

  120. aislander says:

    The first page of Strunk and White says this: “The pronominal possessives hers, its, theirs, yours, and ours have no apostrophe.”

    from “Elements of Style”

  121. aislander says:

    As for the “English lesson,” KARD: what’s your FIRST language?

  122. “Bush: Who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not. We haven’t heard from him in a long time. The idea of focusing on one person really indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. He’s just a person who’s been marginalized…. I don’t know where he is. I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.”

    “In July 2006, we learned that the Bush administration closed its unit that had been hunting bin Laden.
    In September 2006, Bush told Fred Barnes, one of his most sycophantic media allies, that an “emphasis on bin Laden doesn’t fit with the administration’s strategy for combating terrorism.”

    Once CONSTANT search???????????

  123. aislander says:

    Oh, and I’m not defending my typo: they happen.

  124. My first language is Kenyan and I don’t have a birth certificate.

  125. hansgruber says:

    More “throwing in the towel in 2002” according to Kardnos

    It was Ghul, the officials said, who after years of tantalizing hints from other detainees finally provided the information that prompted the CIA to focus intensely on finding Abu Ahmed al Kuwaiti, pseudonym for the courier who would lead them to bin Laden.
    the real breakthrough that led to bin Laden came from a mysterious CIA detainee named Hassan Ghul. Ghul, who was not captured until 2004 at the earliest, was not subjected to waterboarding,

    The available facts, bolstered by evidence from secret Guantanamo detainee files made public by the WikiLeaks organization, suggest that some of the first information U.S. intelligence received about Abu Ahmed al Kuwaiti surfaced in 2002, when the harshest elements of the CIA interrogation program were still in force.
    While Ghul’s information brought tighter focus to the hunt for bin Laden’s most important courier in 2004, it would be another two to three years before the agency discovered his true identity and more about his activities. A new president would take office before the Abbottabad hideout that Abu Ahmed and his brother are believed to have built for bin Laden was discovered.

    To outsiders, it sometimes seemed as if the hunt for bin Laden languished in Bush’s final years in office. That was not the case, aides said.

    http://www.realclearworld.com/news/reuters/international/2011/May/12/special_report__the_bin_laden_kill_plan.html

  126. “C.I.A. Closes Bin Laden Unit
    James Joyner · Tuesday, July 4, 2006 · 17 Comments
    The CIA has quietly shut down its bin Laden hunting unit.

    The Central Intelligence Agency has closed a unit that for a decade had the mission of hunting Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants, intelligence officials confirmed Monday. The unit, known as Alec Station, was disbanded late last year and its analysts reassigned within the C.I.A. Counterterrorist Center, the officials said. The decision is a milestone for the agency, which formed the unit before Osama bin Laden became a household name and bolstered its ranks after the Sept. 11 attacks, when President Bush pledged to bring Mr. bin Laden to justice “dead or alive – Outside the Beltway

  127. Let’s see…copy and paste the Reuters piece and change the date to 2006 this time, Hans

    How many times does Bush get to throw in the towel and be forgotten?

  128. hansgruber says:

    Clearly you haven’t read the article Kardnos…sad

  129. LarryFine says:

    beerBoy says:
    May 16, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Maybe if Bush didn’t waste all that time looking for WMDs under Oval Office desks he might have found bin Laden.

    Lol… you’re confused about which president was looking under the oval office desk and WHAT he was looking for…

  130. Does your comment box not have spell check? Mine does. It helps alot.

  131. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, The BBC has as much fair and balanced news as the NPR and other very liberal cable channels do, None.
    KARDNOS, Bush was appearing at a Black Tie function with reporters joking at these get togethers is normal for all Presidents, have another cup of liberal kool aid quick.

    As far as making jokes about very serious subjects,

    How about Obama joking about putting alligators in a moat along our southern borders to keep illegal mexicans from coming across. This is a very serious problem which he has shown little interest in correcting since becoming President, just listen to what the border states are going through, with murders, drug trafficing, violence of all kinds.

    Or how about his joking at one of his staged tele-promter stops where one of the folks in attendence asked what his was doing about the over 4.00 a gallon gas, nearing 5.00 in many states, Obama smiled and laughed as his answer to the man who stated he has 10 kids and was having problems because the high cost of gas, was to buy a prius to get aound cheaper, ha ha ha, he laughed and laughed.

    I didn’t notice the Lame Stream Media attacking Obama for his jokes about two very, very, serious problems affecting millions of Americans, but thats the usual different standards for different People and Parties, the dems always given better treatment than the Conservatives or Republicans get in their new Coverage.

  132. KARD you’ve really stepped in it today. It’s one thing to have an occasionaly typo and/or misspelling, but for you to actually believe that there is any version of the word yours that has an apostrophe in it AND argue the point…well let’s just say I’m feeling embarrassed for you. And if that’s not enough, you say your first language is “Kenyan.” Try checking to see if there is a Kenyan language and let me know what you find.

    There is a time to just fall silent and slink away.

  133. Looky there, I committed a typo myself in the post above. Point made.

  134. larsman says:

    xring- Good question, thanks.
    The birthline is identical up to King David.
    Because Jesus is both King of Kings and our High Priest, the birthlines separate after David, one through Solomon representing the line of kings, and the other through Nathan.
    A third distinction from Gen. 14:18-20 and the inclusive chapters of Heb.5-8 is to inform us of the priesthood that was confirmed to Jesus through Melchizedek rather than Levi.
    Jesus, being both the Son of Man, born of a woman…and also the Son of God born of the Holy Spirit needed to be born in the “fullness of time” of a pure bloodline up to but not needing Joseph’s human participation in the conception, hence the virgin birth.
    Hope that helps, just a starter…

  135. beerBoy says:

    Larry – I think your response about a previous President should be on the cigar bar thread….

    :-)

  136. alindasue says:

    aislander said, “As for the “English lesson,” KARD: what’s your FIRST language? ”
    To which KARDNOS said, “My first language is Kenyan and I don’t have a birth certificate.”

    Hee, hee, hee. That’s classic!

    Well, now that I’ve had my big laugh for the day…
    Seriously, folks, how about we file the whole grammer arguement under “he who is without sin…” and get back on the actual topic of the thread.

    Thanks.

  137. KARDNOS says:

    alindasue – laughing at my jokes will get the Conservatives believing that you are me and I am you …..koo koo ka choo

  138. KARDNOS says:

    “sozo says:
    May 16, 2011 at 1:17 pm
    KARD you’ve really stepped in it today. It’s one thing to have an occasionaly typo and/or misspelling, but for you to actually believe that there is any version of the word yours that has an apostrophe in it AND argue the point…well let’s just say I’m feeling embarrassed for you. And if that’s not enough, you say your first language is “Kenyan.” Try checking to see if there is a Kenyan language and let me know what you find.”

    They just dont’ get the joke, do they alindasue??????

    Here’s another for you, sozo – I speak Mou Mou.

  139. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm
    KARDNOS, The BBC has as much fair and balanced news as the NPR and other very liberal cable channels do, None.”

    oh gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwd, Roncella. Is everything a liberal conspiracy?

    Do you even know the call letters for the local NPR station?

  140. Ithappened2me2 says:

    beerBoy, I concur.

    ;-)

  141. KARDNOS says:

    “KARDNOS, Bush was appearing at a Black Tie function with reporters joking at these get togethers is normal for all Presidents”

    Now, just two weeks ago you were all pooping your pants over Obama’s monologue at the roast. At least he didn’t make jokes about an issue where thousands of American soldiers died.

  142. KARDNOS says:

    After further research, I stand corrected.

    “yours” is the singular and plural possessive. Tricky one.

    Not quite so tricky as “your” and “you’re”……but…..

  143. KARDNOS says:

    Oh…and to not leave out lars….

    Oh gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwd……

    Next you’ll have to tell us the lineage of the 7 Dwarfs.

  144. aislander says:

    alindasue: the “grammer argument” began because KARD criticized someone else in that regard. If you’re going to cast that first stone, you’d better make sure you’re without sin…

  145. KARDNOS says:

    aislander…..when Roncella stops with “your dumb” I’ll stop noting it……LOL

    When Will You Take Note Of roncella’s Annialation of the english Language?

  146. KARDNOS says:

    aislander…..you wanna know the difference between Roncella and me?

    KARDNOS says:
    May 16, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    After further research, I stand corrected.

    “yours” is the singular and plural possessive. Tricky one.

    Not quite so tricky as “your” and “you’re”……but…..

    I’m neither opposed to learning by research nor admission of mistake.

  147. aislander says:

    It seems that “your dumb” is the analog to “my bad…”

  148. ItalianSpring says:

    The libs love quoting Bush when he said that he wasn’t really concerned with OBL to give man-child Obomba “man” credit. Problem is they are being hypocrites as they are the ones who also constantly say “Bush lied. People died.” Well in regards to OBL and his (W) not caring about getting him I would say “Bush lied and OBL died.” Mission accomplished.

  149. aislander says:

    Or, ItalianSpring, in the case of Monica’s blue dress: emission accomplished. An oldie but a…

  150. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 16, 2011 at 6:45 pm
    It seems that “your dumb” is the analog to “my bad…”

    There it is folks. Proof that no matter how blatant a Conservative is about butchering the English language, one of his cohorts is right there with an excuse.

  151. KARDNOS says:

    “ItalianSpring says:
    May 16, 2011 at 6:57 pm
    The libs love quoting Bush when he said that he wasn’t really concerned with OBL to give man-child Obomba “man” credit. Problem is they are being hypocrites as they are the ones who also constantly say “Bush lied. People died.” Well in regards to OBL and his (W) not caring about getting him I would say “Bush lied and OBL died.” Mission accomplished.

    aislander says:
    May 16, 2011 at 7:00 pm
    Or, ItalianSpring, in the case of Monica’s blue dress: emission accomplished. An oldie but a…

    I’m not sure which is more pitiful, covering for Roncella’s lack of knowing the difference between “your” and “you’re”….or

    trying desperately to credit George Bush with something of which he totally failed….or…..

    bringing up Bill Clinton’s affair when they constantly say “Bush isn’t president anymore”.

    Multiple choice. I’ll take “D” – All of the above.

  152. aislander says:

    KARD: For someone who excoriates all who “don’t get the irony,” you sure miss a lot…

  153. ItalianSpring says:

    aislander- YES it does.

  154. KARDNOS says:

    Uh….yeah…..

  155. KARDNOS says:

    When someone says “my bad” are the misspelling “my” when it should have been “my”?

  156. What is “Liberism” Roncella? Is that someone who was borned that way?

    Your clueless.

    “If only you had the humility to know when to zip it and when not to.”

  157. Tricky, Kardnos? Really? How old are you and where did you go to school?

    As for your sense of humor…oh heck, never mind.

  158. Roncella says:

    Polago, sometimes the truth hurts, buck up and move on.

  159. sozo….Jesus would like you throwing random insults….

  160. sozo – you sort of “stepped in it” by not getting the joke….didn’t you?

  161. Roncella – keep in mind that Usama Bin Laden and his followers are Conservatives.

  162. sozo – I’m old enough to know the difference between “your” and “you’re”

  163. Roncella, get some help to treat your Hate Obama syndrome, mental illness, its very tiresome reading it in your many many posts repeating over and over and over and over again…

  164. aislander says:

    The terms “conservative” and “liberal” are totally context-dependent in order to have any real meaning. It really matters WHAT one is trying to conserve or liberalize. Saying that UBL is “conservative” really says nothing unless we know that he is trying to conserve a murderous, misogynistic, repressive, barbaric, 7th Century theocracy.

    Trying, through implication, to equate that with American conservatism is more than a little cheap and tawdry…

  165. By definition, it would be very difficult to equate Bin Laden’s theocratic nature with that of the American Liberal.

    Our government stands between the American people and the oppression that would ultimately occur if big business was left unchecked by government regulations, the same regulations to which the American conservatism vehemently objects.

    I’d say that the shoe fits.

    Sometimes the truth hurts, buck up and move on.

  166. aislander says:

    After some consideration, I must revise my previous comment. Almost anyone this side of a junior-high smart-ass would know the “subtleties” inherent in the labels “liberal” and “conservative;” so I must add “sophomoric” to the description…

  167. aislander says:

    Not difficult at all, Polago. The quasi-religious devotion that American liberals hold for government argues that THEY are the theocrats in our polity…

  168. aislander says:

    By the way, Pol: I don’t believe there is ANY modern example of a business’s oppressing a large number of people, but there are MANY examples of governments’ doing exactly that…And they were all BIG governments (relative to the size of the nations they oppressed). Even if your allegation is true, though, give me oppression by business rather than government all day long. At least it is possible to escape the reach of a business. Not so easy to do that with governments…

  169. Roncella says:

    Polago, I have nothing but respect for President Obama. Do I agree with his far leftest agenda NO.

    There is no need to hate, many liberals seem filled with rage and hate and
    they displayed this in their attacks against Sara Palin, President Bush, V.P. Cheney, The Donald, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, are a few examples of some of the folks liberal/progressives hate and vilify at every opportunity.

    When it comes to hateful attacks I admit liberals/progressives and dems. are the experts for sure.

  170. It just seems that way to you, Roncella because you seem to know what others are thinking.

  171. I will have to say that from what I have seen in your comments, Roncella, it doesn’t appear as though you have any respect for anyone to the Left of Attila the Hun.

  172. aislander says:

    Polago: I would say that Roncella’s opinions about liberals don’t require mind reading for justification, merely observation…

  173. Given the influence of labor unions and our government, big business is unable to oppress the working class, and that’s the point.

    Our government is not oppressive in the least. Regulatory, yes. Oppressively so, no.

  174. “quasi-religious devotion”

    That’s a good one.

  175. aislander says:

    I don’t respect anyone who believes theft is justified only when it is done on a large scale, so I don’t respect anyone to the left of Jefferson or Madison…

  176. aislander says:

    Polago wrote: “Our government is not oppressive in the least.”

    Oh, please! Anytime you “level the playing field,” you oppress SOMEONE. Regardless of the elevated motivation, it is still oppression…

  177. A level playing field is oppressive? I’d say that a level playing field is the least oppressive situation one could ask for.

  178. aislander says:

    Think for a minute, Polago. To “level the playing field” for one citizen, don’t you have to hold down another citizen? So, the government picks winners and losers, and success becomes a matter of political connections. THAT is oppression…

  179. So, the government owes it to it’s citizens to allow big business to have its way with them? We are the government, we the people.

    We won’t allow them to oppress us.

  180. Roncella says:

    Polago, reminds me so much of President Obama, as he lectured Joe the Plummer in one of his campaign stops as he ran for President the last time.

    Obama informed Joe the Plummer that he wanted to level the playing field, spread the weatlh, Oh Yea, Hope and Change, and Yes We Can, great slogans by President Obama for libs/dems to believe in.

  181. aislander says:

    So, Polago, our government IS oppressive, but in a good way, according to you. That’s still oppression, so your statement that “our government is not oppressive in the least” is untrue. See, this is the flaw in the liberal project: you can’t make everything perfect (everything would HAVE to be perfect for your statement to be true), nor can it predict every consequence of every policy. Best to let people make their OWN decisions…

  182. aislander says:

    So, again Polago, what do you say about the propensity of governments to oppress their people, which is documented. Certainly they have more ability to do that than do businesses, whose power is much more limited than that of governments…

  183. “So, Polago, our government IS oppressive, but in a good way, according to you.”

    I don’t agree that leveling the playing field is oppressive. Those are your words, repeated back to you.

    Our democracy isn’t about oppression. It’s about opportunity. This is what Roncella’s Grandfather liked about America over his homeland.

    I’m getting the picture that you’re in favor of big business ruling over all of us, aislander.

  184. Roncella reminds me so much of Glenn Beck, as he lectures all of his followers about the evils of the Left.

  185. “Best to let people make their OWN decisions…”

    We do make our own decisions, collectively through our Democratic process, aislander.

  186. aislander says:

    When our personal decision-making about the best way to run our lives is taken away by government, THAT is tyranny and oppression. If that is done “democratically,” that is “tyranny of the majority,” which our Constitution was designed to prevent. Those with a taste for power over others have for decades been seeking (and finding, unfortunately) ways to circumvent the Constitution, and that is what you and your ilk seem to celebrate. Your “progress” is our loss of freedom…

  187. aislander says:

    I’m not in favor of oppression by business OR government. It’s just that government’s so much better at it…

  188. Our progress against oppression is your loss of the “freedom” to oppress.

  189. Wouldn’t you say that environmental issues which are regulated by us, the government, would constitute oppression if you were allowed to pollute my drinking water, or my breathing air, or force me to be exposed to environmental dangers as a condition of employment?

  190. aislander says:

    Not relevant, Polago, since government has always had a role in limiting the direct damage one citizen can do to another, unless there is mutual consent, as with cigar lounges, their customers, and employees.

  191. aislander says:

    …and with boxers, MMA, football, and numerous other PRIVATE interactions that can result in some type of harm. After all, not everyone exposed to second-hand smoke suffers ill effects, just as not all football players suffer injury, but must, as a condition of their employment expose themselves to that possibility…

  192. So, what do you consider the “relevant” regulation to be?

  193. I see that the troll like rightists are still proving my theory that they in fact plants by the Demorats to make the right wing look really stupid.

  194. aislander says:

    What is “relevant” to this discussion, Polago, are regulations that are not consistent with the law as it always has been enforced. I believe many regulations overreach and proscribe behavior that is not directly harmful to other citizens, but that which some legislator or bureaucrat believes may be. The results can and have been harmful to innovation and economic progress. These people are no more prescient or capable than anyone else, yet they get to impose their nostrums on all of us…

  195. aislander says:

    God. I just realized I followed Polago down the rabbit hole…

  196. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 17, 2011 at 2:43 pm
    KARDNOS, this may shock you but I was making $80+ K when I retired over 10 years ago. Not all of my life was in uniform.”

    Tell us the one about when you single handedly won the Vietnam War, frosty.

  197. KARDNOS says:

    “KARDNOS says:
    May 17, 2011 at 10:28 am
    Roncella – keep in mind that Usama Bin Laden and his followers are Conservatives.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/13/revenge-is-not-justice/#ixzz1Mf4YDrMM

  198. aislander, I know what you mean about the “rabbit hole” It’s so tempting to reply to these air heads, but it really gets us nowhere. I’ve tried to ignore them because I know they haven’t a clue about anything outside their little circle of fellow liberals. Zero experience in anything except telling lies to each other, but it is a form of entertainment. The more they write,the more they reveal their ignorance.

  199. Islander,
    A level playing field just means every one advices in accordance with the own talents, abilities, and work ethic, and not on account of daddy’s checkbook.

    But then it never bothers the GOP to oppressive any one who can’t fork over a six figure campaign donation or deliver a couple hundred thousand votes.

    Frosty,
    Or they had daddy buy them a slot in the National Guard.

  200. You said that the example I chose (environmental) was not relevant, aislander, so maybe you could pick a relevant example or two of regulations that you consider to be inconsistent with the law as it always has been enforced, for the sake of discussion.

  201. Roncella says:

    Frosty, Don’t let the turkeys (liberals/progressives) get you down.

    Thats what they do they are relentless on issues. Some liberals ability to reason and use common sense seems to be missing.

    They really can’t help it and they sincerely believe in their causes. They are bent on having a Big Government take care of all of us from birth to death.

    I have debated issues with them for years and have many liberal friends who understand that they are not going to change my mind anymore than I’m going change their mind, however our friendships have been strong enough over the years to survive inspite of our political differences

    I have noticed some of the extreme leftest liberals who post here get very bitter and get nasty and mean in their posts whenever Conservatives express their opinions on almost any topic.

  202. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 17, 2011 at 7:23 pm
    I’ve tried to ignore them because I know they haven’t a clue about anything outside their little circle of fellow liberals.”

    That’s why frosty will post a “zinger” directed at me hours after I’ve submitted my last post.

    On the contrary, I find it amusing to listen to armchair warriors relive the glory days when they follow Ike across Northern Africa on the History Channel and then respond accordingly.

  203. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 18, 2011 at 8:37 am
    Frosty, Don’t let the turkeys (liberals/progressives) get you down….
    I have noticed some of the extreme leftest liberals who post here get very bitter and get nasty ”

    You just can’t find this kind of irony with exception of a Roncella post. Of course Roncella might have his head in the freezer talking to a Butterball as we speak.

  204. KARDNOS says:

    Who threw the first stone on this forum?

    Easily answered:

    frosty says:
    May 14, 2011 at 10:14 am
    Speaking of avoiding VietNam KARDNOS, what gives you the right to judge anyone for running from the draft? Try something that you’re more familiar with like searching the Web for your newest talking points.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/05/13/revenge-is-not-justice/#ixzz1MievU5pS

  205. Poor little Ronny one note. Are those mean Liberals picking on you again?

  206. “Roncella might have his head in the freezer talking to a Butterball as we speak.”

    Is Glenn Beck on this early in the day?

  207. scooter6139 says:

    There’s something I don’t quite understand; a page back someone from the right made the point that is only “liberals” that take away peoples freedom.

    What?

    The passing of the Patriot Act did more to reduce our “freedoms” than anything else in the past few decades. Who passed the Patriot Act? I don’t think it was the “liberals”. Who is trying to extend it and failing? (Hint: it’s not the Dems)

  208. Roncella says:

    Wow, Some of the liberal posters here seem to have got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

    Your right about one thing so far today, Polago, Butterball is one of the best Turkey’s to cook and eat.

    Its time some get out in the sunshine and thank god they live in America, clear the thinking process get some fresh air into the Brain area.

  209. aislander says:

    Polago: When you tried to portray Hitler as a small-government conservative, I learned everything I need to know about you. You have no scruples whatsoever, and it is not worth my time and energy to engage with you further…

  210. ROTFLMAO!

  211. When you said, “You have no scruples whatsoever, and it is not worth my time and energy to engage with you further…” I learned everything I needed to know about you, aislander. What a weenie.

  212. LarryFine says:

    “ROFLMAO”…

    • Polago wrote on 03/06/2009 07:00:34 PM:
    I’m not like most here, Don. I think. I understand. I don’t repeat rhetoric. I don’t trash people.

  213. LarryFine says:

    ;)

  214. Polago you seem to have gone down a rather crooked path lately…throwing dirt clods and making fun of folks. What’s wrong?

  215. KARDNOS, unlike you, I don’t sit at the keyboard all day, so it may take hours or days before I can catch up on your latest silliness. As for who started throwing stones first, it was you talking about military service, and trying to put down those who have served. I’ve found that most draft dodgers tend to shut up when they know that they can’t stand with anyone who did serve. But you’re the exception. You’ve talked about being 1A eligible, then went on to mention that you went and got married then went on to say you polished chairs in college. It doesn’t seem like you were leaning forward to get in the military. It’s more likely that you did all you could to avoid it. But now you, of all people will sit around and try to belittle anyone who didn’t shirk. If that was coming from a fellow vet, I’d be more likely to care. Coming from the likes of you, it means absolutely nothing.

  216. scooter 6139, who was running congress when the patriot act passed?

  217. polagos has been throwing dirt since I’ve been posting here. He is only getting worse because he now has a leader to worship and follow, KARDNOS. You know what they say about the “pack mentality. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

  218. xring, about the daddy buying them a slot in the National Guard. I’m not here to cover for anyone. I see nothing wrong with serving in the Guard. At least they are serving. But if you’re referring to Bush, at least his father was an American citizen. If you think flying a jet fighter is for wimps, why don’t you try it?

  219. Who am I making fun of, sozo?

  220. What a weenie? Perhaps that’s not a schoolyard put-down in your world.
    Also, your comments to ron lately have just been puny lately. That’s all.

  221. I’ve been giving Roncella back, what he dishes out. No more, no less. I’m tired of his baseless insinuations. He doesn’t seem to like it.

    Aislander wimped out on me and disparaged me in the process. I should have called him a loser, but weenie came to mind at the time.

    How are you and KARDNOS getting along, sozo?

  222. I’ve had very few exchanges with KARD, and I don’t think I’ve resorted to name-calling, though I’m not above it. The root of the word ridiculous IS, after all, ridicule.

    I just thought your tone had changed notably in recent posts Polago. Truth is, my six-week hiatus from these pages has resulted in a distinct lessening of interest in all this bickering, period. I like to check the site for sound, reasoned arguments from both sides of an issue but you have to weed through so much BS there’s hardly time for it.

  223. scooter6139 says:

    Frosty:

    In October of 2001, when the law was passed, the House was run by the Republicans and the Senate was either split 50-50 or controlled 51-50 by Democrats (It had support on both sides). The law was signed by a Republican President.

    Thanks for making my point.

  224. You’re correct, sozo about my tone. But as I said, I’m giving Roncella back what he’s been dishing out, and now he’s lecturing me about my being snarky. I wonder if he’ll get the connection, that it’s his own behavior that he’s actually objecting to.

    He doesn’t seem to be the least bit introspective. He doesn’t realize that the very things that he complains about in his Liberal/progressive rants, he is most guilty of, himself. (I hope you’re reading this, Roncella?)

    frosty’s another one, but I digress.

    You and I often disagree, but we don’t behave disrespectfully toward one another. And I appreciate your insight.

  225. Polago, I’m disappointed! I had to read your last post all the way to the end before you finally mentioned me. I would like to think that I am more prolific than other conservatives with calling out liberals for who they are. If it means using crude verbage, so be it. I’m a strong believer in telling things the way they are. I don’t agree with liberals I don’t fraternlize with liberals and lastly, I don’t like liberals.

  226. scooter, the law was passed with a vote of 357 to 66 in the house and 98 to 1 in the senate. Your question on “who passed the Patriot Act” has been answered. You further said “it’s not the dems”. Do you want to try again?

  227. frosty says, “polagos has been throwing dirt since I’ve been posting here. He is only getting worse”

    “I am more prolific than other conservatives with calling out liberals for who they are. If it means using crude verbage, so be it”

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, frosty
    —–
    Thank you for serving our country.

    We’re all in this together.

  228. “modern example of a business’s oppressing a large number of people”
    Try looking up the Northern Mariana Islands and Jack Abramoff.

    The morals of the Rcons are more Vegas Value than family value (unless your family name is Borgia).

  229. Roncella says:

    Polago, Maybe its time for you to spank your fellow lib xring for his nasty mean comments to other posters, after all you are the unelected decider of what folks can express and not express on these posts, Right ?

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