Letters to the Editor

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DEFICIT: Rescind the Bush tax cuts

Letter by Charles L. Allyn, Tacoma on May 11, 2011 at 11:48 am with 204 Comments »
May 12, 2011 1:14 pm

Re: “John Boehner strong on ideology but weak on reality” (TNT, 5-11).

Boehner still does not get it. He spreads the myth that increased income taxes do not reduce the deficit.

Just 11 years ago, before the George W. Bush years, we had higher income tax rates and the deficit was reduced to only $18 billion in fiscal 2000. (It was called a surplus, but the national debt still increased by $18 billion.)

The Bush tax cuts went into effect a short time later, and income from personal income taxes dropped by $200 billion the next year.

So doesn’t it make sense to immeadiately rescind the Bush tax cuts which never should have been renewed after 10 years with the deficit we had at that time? It appears that they have been responsible for $2 trillion worth of borrowing.

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  1. I beg to differ with you Charles, it’s not a ‘myth’ as you say, it’s an out right lie.
    And further more the rightists know it’s a lie, and they compound that lie with another big whooper,
    ‘Tax cut stimulate the economy’
    Two huge lies with one tax cut.

  2. old_benjamin says:

    It certainly makes sense, Charles, to rescind YOUR tax cut. Just make out at a check and mail it to the IRS. I’m sure it will help with that $14 trillion meteoride speeding toward your neighborhood.

  3. LarryFine says:

    When Clinton left office we were in a recession…

  4. Fibonacci says:

    Old_benjamin
    Meteriods? What are you on?
    The point of the letter was that the deficit got WORSE when Bush cut taxes and started 2 unfunded wars. So I agree it makes sense to put taxes back where they were before. Just because YOU don’t want to pay it (ah, the old “you can send governement money if you want to” argument, which is donwright stupid) does not mean it makes no sense. You just don’t like that it would help with the deficit.

  5. beerBoy says:

    When Bush left office we were in the Great Recession…

  6. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    Taxes are high enough on everyone!!! It’s spending that’s the problem. I’m with the Speaker. I want to see trillions in cuts!!!

  7. klthompson says:

    The Clinton surplus never happened. It was a ten year projection which never got a chance to happen. For those so anxious to raise taxes how about applying taxes to the 40% or more working Americans who pay no federal income tax? Better yet how about a flat tax or national sales tax to replace the current system? After reading some of the comments on national financial problems it would seem appropriate the require the teaching of Economics 101 and Comparative Economic Systems to all high school students. Maybe also the History of Economic Doctrine and then maybe some of these ludicrous suggestions would go away.

  8. KARDNOS says:

    You have to love the math that some people apply. All you need to do is subtract, no addition required.

  9. oldman4 says:

    The choice is either Boehner and the Republicans tax cuts to try and stimulate the economy or the Democrats no budget, increased deficits, no direction, print more money and watch the recession continue plan. I have no confidence in the democrats at all. Two years without a budget, we cannot continue in this direction

  10. teebird says:

    If they can’t live within the current revenue that’s being generated, more revenue will not solve the problem. Reduce spending in line with revenue. The upper incomes are paying the most already..

  11. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Spending and national debt are the problems!!! Keeping a marxist/socialist like “OH-Bummer” and his communist/socialist friends in government will definitely not solve the nations problems!!

  12. Tell the lies often enough………

  13. What is needed is a combination of target cuts aimed at the big items like the $40 billion in tax cuts and outright payments to the oil companies; closing tax loop holes that only benefit the rich or big businesses; and returning the top tax rates to the Clinton era values.

  14. beerBoy says:

    taxedenough – two(three) wars and taxes rates were cut/extended to near record low levels. Makes less sense than Guns and Butter.

  15. KARDNOS says:

    We need to keep giving oil companies a subsidy and cutting programs for senior citizens.

    That will solve the problem.

  16. Before the Bush oil barons ruled the country, gas cost 1.45 per gallon, and the national deficit was in the process of being eroded to nothing. What do you suppose happened when the Bush vultures on the electorate took power?

  17. the3rdpigshouse says:

    How about we start taxing everyone at some level so everyone has a right to complain about the system. Those who are nothing more than perpetual welfare dependents have no business voting or complaining about their lot in life!!

  18. Definitely need to change the system so everybody has “skin in the game”. Eliminate the Earned Income Credit, set a minimum baseline tax regardless of income(maybe even 5%???). When you have half this nation not paying a dime in federal taxes, and a large portion of those actually getting an “unpaid rebate” in the form of earned income credit, you spawn mentalities like Charles Allyn’s. Its immature class envy, stoked by liberals. Its ridiculous, but those who don’t contribute anything, and don’t better themselves continually believe that those that choose to make their lives better should pay EVEN more. It’s hilarious……”give a man a fish”…..

  19. Publico says:

    Good’ole TMell. He wants to tax even the guy who cannot put food on the table for his family for 3 squares a day. Sure is a weird idea of fairness.

  20. “If they can’t live within the current revenue that’s being generated, more revenue will not solve the problem.”

    So if my daily expenses are two dollars and I only earn one dollar, it will not solve my problem if I earn three dollars per day? Dang!!!

  21. LarryFine says:

    The 104th and 105th congress created the”surplus”.
    The 110th and 111th congress gave us with the “Great Recession” .

  22. I have an idea, lets keep giving the billions subsides to the oil companies and they in turn will create jobs for us with their record profits! Its just crazy enough to work!

  23. “Cut spending, don’t raise taxes”. Which spending would you cut? The billions in equipment and supplies to fund 2 wars, maybe? Might be an unpopular idea with the troops on the ground. How about Medicare? Hell, Grandma’s old and she’s lived through the Depression, she’s used to doing without. Cut the VA! Heck most of those guys are young and should be able to find work. Cut the WIC program. Milk, cereal and formula from birth through age 6. Heck, WE didn’t put them here, why should WE feed them? EVERY cut that you make in the US or the State budget effects PEOPLE. Living, breathing, human PEOPLE. So when you start griping about CUTS, think to yourself: What if it were ME, or my child under that budget axe?

  24. cirrus, not if that means you decide you can now spend 4…..

  25. beerBoy says:

    Which spending would you cut?

    Oil subsidies
    Agriculture subsidies (especially ethanol production)
    The war budget.

  26. KARDNOS says:

    Remember Boehner walking the Congressional floor handing out tobacco checks?

    You know who is taken care of….

  27. KARDNOS says:

    Here is a nice video, complete with comments from GOP Congressional reps:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3a_1284581246

  28. KARDNOS says:

    papasan – you forget, the “Death Panels” was a great talking point for the GOP and their “spiritual leader” Palin. Now that they are in charge they are going after the very thing that keeps older Americans alive.

    They don’t really care, as long as their business partners continue to funnel funds.

  29. beerBoy says:

    Speaker of the House John Boehner said he won’t vote to raise the debt ceiling without cutting the deficit. Democrats agree, and want to start cutting the deficit by ending giveaways to oil companies.

    I just signed a petition to Boehner to end subsidies to Big Oil and use that money to cut the deficit.

    http://www.couragecampaign.org/OilSubsidies

  30. LarryFine says:

    Picking up on a poster’s off-topic comment…

    I remember algore had something to do with tobacco… he grew up on a tobacco farm, worked on it, and continued to accept checks from that farm for years after his sister died. In 1988, while running for president, he defended tobacco farmers while campaigning in Southern tobacco states. He accepted contributions from tobacco companies as late as 1990.

    “Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I’ve hoed it. I’ve chopped it. I’ve shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.” — Al Gore, 1988

    (and oil… he owned a fair amout of Occidental Oil stock WHILE he was VP)

  31. KARDNOS says:

    So….because Al Gore (it’s a first and last name unless you speak Limbaugh) was raised on a tobacco farm, that gives Boehner the right to hand out checks from lobbyists on the Congressional floor (Boehner IS the topic of this letter). The concept of accepting farm subsidies isn’t just novel to Michelle Bachman and 5 Republican state legislators in Wisconsin?

    The last time I checked, Al Gore is no longer an elected official. Isn’t that the “Bush Excuse”?

    Fascinating how Republican Congressional representatives were questioning how you can “balance the budget” and still give away subsidies.

    If only Linda Smith and Steve Largent were still around…..

  32. KARDNOS says:

    It’s kinda funny how someone would bring up “off topic” and then insert Al Gore when the letter was about John Boehner.

    That, my friends, is called “deflection”.

  33. aislander says:

    So…how much did ACTUAL (not projected) revenues fall with the advent of the Bush tax cuts? And how much have deficits increased since the advent of the Nancy Pelosi congress and Obama? As someone said above, it’s just simple arithmetic. Adds up to a spending problem.

  34. KARDNOS says:

    Yes, aislander, since the Obama Administration took over an American economy in shambles, there has been more money spend – not unlike what happens when a company takes over a distressed company.

    Now if the distressed company is losing REVENUE (not profits) and increase is revenue is what is needed. You can cut labor to the bone but if you can’t produce enough to make your revenue projections, you are going deeper in the hole.

    You’re right. It’s simple arithmetic.

    Since the government doesn’t produce a product, it must increase revenue the only way possible – taxation – unless, of course, you’d like to see our country selling a product – maybe oil and other minerals?

  35. Roncella says:

    The only answer President Obama, and the fat cat big spending dems in the Congress have to the budget problems is to raise taxes higher and higher.

    Obama and the dems. in the Congress need to stop their out of control spending, trillions of wasted dollars on programs that don’t work, stimulus packages costing millions and millions providing few jobs for the buck.

    What happened to all those thousands of shovel ready jobs Obama and the Dems kept talking about in order to get their big spending bills passed,

    remember libs when your hero repeated over and over that unelmplyment would never go above 8% as long as his spending bills got passed Now ?????

    What happened its staying at 9% with long term unemployment actually being around 17%, What happened to all the Hope and Change, and Yes We Can, ??????

  36. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 12, 2011 at 8:19 am
    So…how much did ACTUAL (not projected) revenues fall with the advent of the Bush tax cuts?”

    That would be an unknown, since part of the equation is missing and you won’t allow projections.

  37. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella – other than NPR and Planned Parenthood, what exactly to you propose be cut?

    We know you don’t want to cut $4 billion to oil because we’d lose jobs at convenience store gas stations.

    We can’t cut farm subsidies to Republican elected officials.

    Are you ready to watch the GOP be toast when they cut Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security (all of which were paid into by recipents)?

    Oh…I almost forgot – we can’t cut miliary spending because we need to have more military that all the other countries in the world, combined.

  38. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella – my hat is off to you if you are earning in excess of $250K a year.

  39. KARDNOS says:

    “stimulus packages costing millions and millions providing few jobs for the buck.”

    You mean like 4200 GM jobs in 8 states?

    Oh. Sorry, FOX was focused on Common visiting the White House and didn’t cover the GM success, yesterday.

  40. LarryFine says:

    Gotta love the snails complaint about her offtopic rant being one upped… par for the course.

  41. KARDNOS says:

    Larry…..if the kitchen is too hot….go outside and play.

    You are the one complaining about “off topic” and you are the one that is guilty.

  42. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella – you’ll not find answers to my challenges in a Right Wing Talking Points website. You’ll have to just wing it with some ideas on cutting.

  43. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Another hero for the libs and dems. including Michelle Obama to fall all over “Common No Sense”.

    What shame they have allowed into the Whitehouse, sad and disappointing to most main stream Americans.

    I guess this is what President Obama meant when he said over and over again, Change and Yes We Can as he read from his many tele-prompters.

  44. aislander says:

    Of course actual revenues are “known.” That’s why they’re called “actual!” Projected revenues are indeed, “unknown.” What IS known is that, after a small fall-off due to the post-9/11 recession, revenues increased and–surprise!–deficits went down until–surprise again!–the Nancy Pelosi congress. So, if revenues increased and deficits went down: what changed in 2008? Oh, yeah. Spending went up…

  45. KARDNOS says:

    I love how we bring up 1988 quotes from Al Gore and year 2000 reports on his family stock ownership and relate that to the Republicans inability to rationally identify real cuts in the budget.

    A little research shows that the Occidental Oil was daddy’s deal, and as we all know the Gore’s were anything but liberals.

  46. I think that is the biggest blocker from us “middle Class” tax payers. I for one would miss the tax breaks BUT would give them up IF I saw our Government cutting its spending and excessive growth.

    Just saying no politician or political party is soley responsable for this mess we are in the fault is ours (the voters). We don’t demand that our reps not be influenced by lobbiest (both right and left).

  47. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella….I’m sorry I distracted you from the real important stuff of our government.

    “Common” is the “Reverend Wright” of the week.

    The First Amendment is only good if it’s burning the Quran.

  48. KARDNOS says:

    JRKill – I think you’d find that middle class tax increases wouldn’t be required if tax loopholes and subsidies were cut and an increase on upper income brackets was initiated.

    The other thing would be returning manufacturing to the United States so that there are jobs other than minimum wage service industry.

  49. KARDNOS says:

    aislander – If the “actuals are know – why are you posing this question?

    “aislander says:
    May 12, 2011 at 8:19 am
    So…how much did ACTUAL (not projected) revenues fall with the advent of the Bush tax cuts?”

  50. aislander says:

    The wisdom of Obama’s inviting this supporter of thugs to the White House has absolutely NOTHING to do with the First Amendment. Nobody is talking about US government censorship of his crap (no matter how beneficial that may be for our culture). The discussion is about the good sense (or lack thereof) in extending the invitation…

  51. KARDNOS says:

    Spending increased – starting with bailing out Wall Street who rewarded themselves with bonuses.

  52. aislander says:

    I ask the question (rhetorically) because revenues DIDN’T fall appreciably, so, if revenues didn’t fall (and in fact rose, later in the decade) spending MUST have increased–which it did. So, we have a spending problem, NOT a revenue problem…

  53. aislander says:

    Wall Street bonuses (as unpalatable as they may be) are not even a pimple on the butt of this rhinoceros of a deficit and debt…

  54. KARDNOS says:

    Oh, now I’ve gone and done it…..

    Common has been creating his craft for over 10 years and was inspired to one eulogy to a Black Panther. Of course, no one wants to talk about the murder of Black Panthers by police…..

    Since Ted Haggard was a weekly visiter to the Bush White House, I don’t think a poet/actor is going to taint it too much.

  55. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 12, 2011 at 9:12 am
    Wall Street bonuses (as unpalatable as they may be) are not even a pimple on the butt of this rhinoceros of a deficit and debt…

    And they were more than NPR and Planned Parenthood combined – almost as much as Oil subsidies. We’ve found plenty of time to work on cutting Planned Parenthood and NPR. Plenty of time to defend oil.

    Can someone please identify the rhinoceros???????

  56. menopaws says:

    Boehner is willing to let the market crash again–even if our recovering 401-K’s crash with it……..So, once again, keeping those wacko tea party people happy trumps the health of the American economy. Two wars off the books, tax cuts–it took us a very long time to go down this hole . I truly understand how frustrated and scared people are. But, you don’t place the United States credit and and markets on the chopping block to prove your point…….If Boehner and company do this and then try to pin it on the President—we can all argue about who was right while we are standing in the soup line…….Because, the banks will fail and your money will be gone. Time to be grown-ups and figure out a reasonable compromise……..or learn to speak Chinese…..

  57. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 12, 2011 at 9:10 am
    I ask the question (rhetorically) because revenues DIDN’T fall appreciably, so, if revenues didn’t fall (and in fact rose, later in the decade) spending MUST have increased–which it did. So, we have a spending problem, NOT a revenue problem… ”

    So the doubling of the debt during the Bush Adminstration was a “spending problem”? Remembering the 6 of 8 years that Congress was GOP during that time.

  58. Roncella says:

    DARDNOS, FYI. Common no sense attended The Rev Wrights (Obams ‘s minister) Church for many years, its no wonder he sings violent rap against the police and others.

  59. aislander says:

    …and deficits were decreasing in the last years of Republican control of Congress, only to skyrocket under the profligate Pelosi/Reid/Obama regime.

    Please explain how raising burdens on oil companies that fall under US government jurisdiction will reduce the cost of a gallon of gasoline…

  60. KARDNOS says:

    What is comical is how these Right Wingers buy exactly what FOX wants them to hear without taking 5 minutes to look something up for themselves.

    Common also starred in a good movie, where Queen Latifa became his love interest. Now seeing that Queen has come out, doesn’t he get props for turning a lesbian into a “normal” woman?

    :::::::please pardon my sarcasm::::::::

  61. aislander says:

    KARD writes: “Common’s lyrics are not all about cop killing.”

    …and Haggard’s life wasn’t all about male prostitutes. So, what’s your point?

  62. Roncella says:

    KARNNOS, You need to Think and lighten up with your computer use,

    Think, On Your Own for once and you might occasionally come to a real common sense conclusion about current events, Try it, if you have the courage to.

  63. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella….answer honestly….

    Did you know the name “Common” before yesterday?

  64. The top group making over 350 million a year paid less than 17% of that in taxes.Thats half the percentage I paid. Most of these people only pay 10% for stock they are given as compensation. Every penny my company pays me is taxed at over 32%. How is this fare, sounds like class warfare and redistribution of wealth to me. So we rescind tax cuts and they pay 2% more only on income not tied to stock. Sounds like the still are getting a better deal than the middle class.

  65. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 12, 2011 at 9:32 am
    KARNNOS, You need to Think and lighten up with your computer use,”

    Yeah…I need to avoid researching facts at all costs!!!!!

  66. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 12, 2011 at 9:32 am
    KARD writes: “Common’s lyrics are not all about cop killing.”

    …and Haggard’s life wasn’t all about male prostitutes. So, what’s your point?”

    Well…first of all…YOU were the one that brought up MALE prostitutes. I thought I’d leave that part alone.

    There are websites where you can read Common’s lyrics and I’ll bet that there is less time spent about “cop killing” than time Ted Haggard smoked meth

    If we are going to worry about a poet coming to the White House, where is the concern about the meth using, prostitute hiring preacher?

  67. aislander says:

    How many times was Haggard celebrated at the White House either before or after his peccadilloes became public knowledge? And how many times was Common celebrated at the White House after his views on the killing of police officers became known? The time line and the occasion are the differences. Besides, I thought you guys were all in favor of drugs and gays…

  68. aislander says:

    theo writes: “The top group making over 350 million a year paid less than 17% of that in taxes.”

    …and rescinding the Bush tax cuts STILL wouldn’t touch that income–it would just kill a bunch of small businesses. Then we could ALL work for the government, which could just print more money to pay us all. Yay! That would work, all right…

  69. Roncella says:

    KARKNOS, Like I said, find the courage to form your “own opinion” without googles help once in awhile.

    If folks wanted to hear from google its at our fingertips, we don’t need you repeating facts or figures to try to back up your many wrong comments about many different issues.

  70. aislander says:

    …besides, KARD, almost ALL the TARP money has been repaid except for that part diverted to support of GM. I didn’t favor TARP, by the way, since I believe that ANY relationship between business and government (aside from the enforcement of basic laws and proper adjudication of civil torts) is fascistic.

  71. Roncella…..please tell me that was a joke….otherwise I’m concerned about you.

    Well, aislander, I don’t partake in drugs or prostitutes, so, there goes another of your theories.

  72. ..and rescinding the Bush tax cuts STILL wouldn’t touch that income–it would just kill a bunch of small businesses.

    Is the inverse true? Did the institution of the Bush cuts result in the creation of a bunch of small businesses? Since the Bush Administration had the worst overall job creation numbers since Hoover I don’t think so.

    (and, citing the bad jobs creation numbers for Obama doesn’t do anything to booster your argument since the tax rates from Bush have continued under Obama)

  73. “And how many times was Common celebrated at the White House after his views on the killing of police officers became known?”

    First….why don’t you quote the lyrics of which you are so offended? I’m betting that this is as good as “god damn, America”

  74. aislander says:

    Modest proposal: Why don’t we put corporate taxation on a sliding scale. The more of a company’s activities that are conducted within the United States, the lower the tax rate, going all the way down to zero for companies whose production and employment are wholly within our borders. Furthermore, those companies WITH overseas operations could reduce their tax rates by repatriating revenues from those operations. The taxes not collected would be recouped by taxing employees and realized capital gains of stockholders. Even better would be taxes solely on consumption. Then EVERYBODY pays, with no underground economy. Result: more revenues to government…

  75. Common also condemns abortion in his raps…..

    But this is, like the rest of the blather from the Obamaphobes, much ado about nothing.

  76. aislander says:

    beerBoy: Please provide a source for your assertion that “the Bush Administration had the worst overall job creation numbers since Hoover…”

  77. aislander says:

    …the numbers I found were about 8 million new jobs and then 2 million lost in the recent meltdown, for a net of 6 million…

  78. beerBoy,

    “Did the institution of the Bush cuts result in the creation of a bunch of small businesses?”
    —–
    No. Bush II’s first tax cut went into effect in May of 2001. At that time unemployment was 4.3% (up 0.1% from his inauguration – so much for the conservative claim that Bush inherited a recession, right?). Beginning the very next month, unemployment went up steadily for the next two years, topping out at 6.3% in June of 2003. It didn’t ever go back down to 4.3% during his time in office, but it did reach 4.4% in October 2006, five years after the tax cut.

  79. MalcolmRussell says:

    The tax rates (Bush Tax Cuts) have less to do with overall tax revenue that get collected each then most people think… Federal tax revenues as a % of the GDP are remarkably steady regardless of changes (increases or cuts) to the top marginal tax rates. Think of it this way – it like the case where you have a small business and some years you charge only a 30% mark up on products sold and other years you decide to charge a 50% mark up on the products sold, BUT every year you make about the same percentage of overall profit on your annual sales. (When you have a lower mark up you sell more product but make less profit and when you have a higher mark up you sell less product but have a higher profit – but overall the general profit margin remains steady)

    People are too focused on the Bush tax cuts argument, its arguing about if we need to charge a 30% or a 50% mark up in the fed store and ignoring that the mark up itself has less to do with our overall return (tax revenue) then we think it does… We need a fair system, top earners pay (a little) more, the bottom earners pay SOMETHING and we eliminate many of the tax breaks…

    SEE: http://reason.com/assets/mc/ngillespie/2010_11/taxratevsgdpjpeg.jpg

  80. aislander says:

    Thank you for making that point, MalcolmRussell. It explains precisely why revenues didn’t fall off appreciably with the institution of the tax cuts. There is no doubt that tax-rate increases inhibit economic activity, which is proven by the fact that revenues are not increased in lockstep with rate increases. The only explanation for that is reduced economic activity…

  81. aislander says:

    To put that on a personal level: Does anyone believe it is better to pay out in taxes a larger percentage of smaller income or a smaller percentage of a larger one?

  82. aislander says:

    I should have written that: “Does any believe it is better to pay out in taxes a larger percentage of a smaller income rather than a smaller percentage of a larger one?”

  83. I see that the rightists (plants to make the right look stupid) are doing the only thing they can do, whine and cry with talking points from todays hate radio shows and the standard known lies, like ‘we have a spending problem’.

    Neat how they govern with bumper sticker slogans isn’t it?

  84. If the weeper of the House got his wish for a trillion dollars in ‘cuts’ the deficit/debt would not go down, and the reason is the very expensive bush tax cuts.

    The ONLY way to solve our problems is two fold, cut wasteful spending and return our tax rates to reasonable levels.

  85. LarryFine says:

    I see kardnos switched to her other alt…

  86. Roncella says:

    Everytime there is an attempt by Republicans or tea party folks to pressure Obama and the dems in Congress to cut wasteful programs and stop spending and taxing (dems have not presented a budget in two years) Obama and the dems. fall back to putting fear into the older folks about them losing their social security, medicare coverages.

    Whenever an attempt is made by a Republican such as paul Ryan as presented in his budget to Fix Social Security and medicare, Obama and the dems, fall back on scaring folks with lies and distortions, instead of reaching across the aisle and working to fix the problems.

  87. menopaws says:

    Pay attention here—Nero fiddled while Rome burned!!!!!!! If we don’t raise the debt ceiling and do default—our credit rating becomes that of some third world nation. We cease to set the agenda for America and we can truly fall over the precipice……..We can argue about rap music, and ministers and all the rest of the useless crap, but we need to stop being reality challenged. This is about politics being played with the faith and credit of the United States of America………and it won’t be fun when the bottom drops out. I think Boehner knows that and he can continue to play spin for awhile if he wants……..But, this is no game–it is deadly serious and we all need to quit with the rightie- leftie crap and let Congress know this is a truly dangerous game and everybody loses–right or left…….I don’t think the past is nearly as important as the future and that is where our focus needs to be.

  88. aislander says:

    Not only will the Dems not reach across the aisle; they won’t even put forward their own proposal with respect to the budget. Their behavior is completely dishonest…

  89. aislander says:

    I didn’t know that Chicken Little had paws, meno or otherwise. Raising the debt ceiling is not nearly as important as it is being made out to be (lefties ALWAYS need a crisis, don’t they?) since interest payments can be made with current revenues. In the mean time, why don’t the Dems propose a budget?

  90. The facts are,If you spend more than you earn,you will be left with 2 choices,cut spending or get a second job! The Government choices seems to be,raise taxes and keep spending our children and grandchildrens future earnings.Eventually the voters will realize we are all on a sinking ship and not enough lifeboats to hold all the passengers.Thats when the voters will find themselves treading water,while the Politicans sail away to some sunny Island!Excuse me as I have to try and find some Lifevests for my family.

  91. Roncella says:

    Sincere, After watching Obama’s last tele-prompter reading news conference, along our southern border, anyone can see he is not serious about safe guarding the borders of our southern states before he offers illegal mexicans and others who have come to the U.S. illegally, anmesty or the dream plan he has re-resurrected.

    All Obama is doing is trying to shore up more mexican votes for his election in 2012

  92. beerBoy says:

    sigh…..aislander…..this is at least the third time I have posted this

    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

    The current President Bush, once taking account how long he’s been in office, shows the worst track record for job creation since the government began keeping records. –Sudeep Reddy

    Note: The wsj in the URL stands for Wall St. Journal…..hardly a leftist organization.

  93. Roncella says:

    Fibonacci, Pay attention for once. No republican plan does anything to alter the current folks like 64 years and older, the changes needed to fix social securtiy and medicare will affect the younger folks, in order to save the plans or portiions of the plans.

    Your listening to the lame stream press and Obama and some dems trying hard to scare the Old Folks.

  94. My lord the lies from the rightists are nearly nonstop!
    When will you rightist learn that all your lies have been more than refuted?

    Ailander, the littlest cowboy left office with a net LOSS of jobs, even you can’t rewrite that bit of history.

  95. aislander says:

    Sorry, beerBoy, but the blog you cited is not authoritative. Jobs need to be created merely to accommodate those just coming into the job market, which is why, in spite of ALL the new jobs supposedly created under Obama, the unemployment rate doesn’t go down and was, in fact, revised upward last week. In order for the unemployment rate to stay as low as it was during most of the Bush administration (which most experts called “full employment”), that baseline number of jobs HAD to have been created. That job creation stayed ahead of new workers added, proving that net jobs creation was at least where it needed to be…

  96. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 12, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    Fibonacci, Pay attention for once. No republican plan does anything to alter the current folks like 64 years and older, the changes needed to fix social securtiy and medicare will affect the younger folks, in order to save the plans or portiions of the plans.”

    “Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee, wants to dismantle the Medicare program and replace it with a system of vouchers. Starting in 2022, the government would give the average 65-year-old Medicare beneficiary $8,000 a year to buy coverage from a private insurer.”

    Now, in my personal case I will be 71 in 2002, well into retirement, hopefully. The Republican plan that won’t affect me will allow my spouse and I only $16,000 a year to buy insurance that costs about $12,000 a year now, in a employer union program that is known as a Cadillac. Roncella is trying to convince me that at 71 years old, insurance companies will not want more than a group program charges now considering that I’m 11 years younger and a lower risk

    Yep…..won’t affect me at all………if I die before 2022.

    My next thought is – how does changing Medicare in 2022 take care of today’s deficit?

  97. KARDNOS says:

    The Wall Street Journal, citing Labor Department statistics, is not authoritative.

    Now THERE is an authoritative statement!

  98. KARDNOS says:

    Since Mexicans are notoriously Catholic and socially conservative (sort of like Newt Gingrich is trying to be), why would they vote Democratic? As to amnesty, it seems to me that Ronald Reagan was the king of amnesty and he is the Saint of the Republicans.

    The GOP will just have to translate their three word chants into Spanish.

    “Taladro, nino, taladro”

    “no nuevo asensuar”

    Sorry, I don’t know where the “enye” is on my keyboard

  99. KARDNOS says:

    As to our earlier conversation about Common’s attendence at the White House….

    “So the big controversy in the news this week is how Chicago rapper Common was invited to the Obama White House. Republicans and conservative commentators, Fox News anchors like Sean Hannity, and talk radio people like Glenn Beck are all up in arms, because Common has a few verses in a few of his songs that are of a violent nature, anti-police, etc.

    What they forgot was that Eazy-E, the late, controversial rapper from the gangster rap group NWA, was also invited to a Republican White House luncheon on March 18, 1991, when George H.W. Bush was president.

    If you don’t know about Eazy-E, let’s just say that he makes Common look like Vanilla Ice when it comes to violent lyrical content. Just about all of Eazy-E’s songs concerned killing cops in lurid detail, raping women, shooting people, robbing people, etc.”

    Strange bedfellows, indeed

  100. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Because they want the free money the democRATs give them?

  101. ItalianSpring says:

    Don’t worry Chuck. Once Obomba wins his second term, it will be a full on press to Comfassocialism and the Bush tax cut will be nixed.

  102. Rather than a long detailed rebottled, sufficient to say the right wing trolls are so blind, deaf, and dumb they make a zombie look like a rocket scientist.

    All right has have are lies, revised history, and outright fantasies (AKA: right wing talking points).

  103. Fibonacci says:

    Roncella
    You have show your true colors. “No Repbulican plan does anything to the current folks like 64 and older…” So, in other words, you have yours and scr*w everyone else, who by the way, ARE GOING TO GET OLD!!!

    Congratulations on how long you refrainde from your lame stream medaiacomment, you could not leave it alone though could you. Lame stream (what, 85+% off the population versus 15% for Faux Spews?

  104. bobcat1a says:

    Roncella, it is quite obvious you have not read Common’s work; listening to Sean Hannity read a few lines out of context does you a great disservice. The lines Sean quoted are actually part of a longer section asking for peace and an end to violence; but Sean doesn’t want you to know that because he’s in the business of propaganda not the business of information. He just gets excited when you parrot his disinformation.

  105. Publico says:

    Let’s see………….we have comments here from loyal followers of the right’s philosophy on the budget and what taxes do or do not do and none of them are economists as far as I know and they seldom quote any authority. These same people are, with few exceptions, deniers of global warming and the resulting climate change that will produce drastic life changes for lots of people. They are also, for the most part, people who believe that a woman’s right to choose is an abomination which goes against god’s will.
    Do you see the drift here? There is a reliance on belief and repugnance for science and fact. It very closely fits the evolving definition of the far, extreme right, which is unfortunately represented here by fellow members of our community who share in the national bounty, all the while disparaging what they have received.

  106. aislander says:

    I DO see the drift, Publico. You are indulging in the time-honored lefty tactic of diminishing and smearing your opponents. If you don’t have a compelling argument…

  107. SadujTogracse says:

    Ah yes the typical “but he did it in 1991 so it’s ok to do it now” line from Kardnos. And let’s not forget common wrote an ode to AN ACTUAL cop killer, not some fictional character. Assata Shakur (who common wrote a song about) was convicted of a cold blood murder of a NJ state trooper. Not a person who should be honored with a song, and a very real reason to be outraged at that person getting a White House invitation.

  108. aislander says:

    lians: Thanks for making that point. It was percolating in the back of my mind, too, but I never quite got around to posting it…

  109. aislander said: “Not only will the Dems not reach across the aisle; they won’t even put forward their own proposal with respect to the budget. Their behavior is completely dishonest…”

    Apparently aislander has overlooked this: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget

    Now, who is it that’s being dishonest?

  110. KARDNOS says:

    “SadujTogracse says:
    May 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm
    Ah yes the typical “but he did it in 1991 so it’s ok to do it now” line from Kardnos. And let’s not forget common wrote an ode to AN ACTUAL cop killer, not some fictional character. Assata Shakur (who common wrote a song about) was convicted of a cold blood murder of a NJ state trooper. Not a person who should be honored with a song, and a very real reason to be outraged at that person getting a White House invitation.”

    A Bush apologist – how novel! Saduj doesn’t want to discuss the number of Black Panthers murdered by police and the circumstances surrounding the alleged “cold blooded murder”.

    On May 2 1973, Black Panther activist Assata Shakur (fsn) JoAnne Chesimard, was pulled over by the New Jersey State Police, shot twice and then charged with murder of a police officer.

    The “cold blooded murder” starts sounding like self defense.

    So how about some lyrics?

    In the spirit of god.
    In the spirit of the ancestors.
    In the spirit of the black panthers.
    In the spirit of assata shakur.
    We make this movement towards freedom
    For all those who have been oppressed, and all those in the struggle.
    Yeah. yo, check it-

    There were lights and sirens, gunshots firin
    Cover your eyes as I describe a scene so violent
    Seemed like a bad dream, she laid in a blood puddle
    Blood bubbled in her chest, cold air brushed against open flesh
    No room to rest, pain consumed each breath
    Shot twice wit her hands up
    Police questioned but shot before she answered
    One panther lost his life, the other ran for his
    Scandalous the police were as they kicked and beat her
    Comprehension she was beyond, tryna hold on
    To life. she thought she’d live with no arm
    That’s what it felt like, got to the hospital, eyes held tight
    They moved her room to room-she could tell by the light
    Handcuffed tight to the bed, through her skin it bit
    Put guns to her head, every word she got hit
    ‘who shot the trooper? ‘ they asked her
    Put mace in her eyes, threatened to blast her
    Her mind raced till things got still
    Opened her eyes, realized she’s next to her best friend who got killed
    She got chills, they told her: that’s where she would be next
    Hurt mixed wit anger-survival was a reflex
    They lied and denied visits from her lawyer
    But she was buildin as they tried to destroy her
    If it wasn’t for this german nurse they woulda served her worse
    I read this sister’s story, knew that it deserved a verse
    I wonder what would happen if that woulda been me?
    All this stuff (edited for acceptance) so we could be free, so dig it, y’all.

    (cee-lo vocals)
    I’m thinkin’ of assata, yes.
    Listen to my love, assata, yes.
    Your power and pride is beautiful.
    May God bless your soul.

    As usual, FOX and the Right Wing Sound Machine love to keep the ignorant ignorant.

  111. KARDNOS says:

    Now, ultimately, the only reason Common’s visit to the White House became an issue is because the Republicans have gotten the word that their little assault on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security isn’t popular among the high voting senior citizen population sector. This is the latest “much ado about nothing” to distract the voters from the real issue.

  112. KARDNOS says:

    Oh…and as to Bush I’s White House guest – you can make up your own mind:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eazy-E

  113. KARDNOS says:

    As a caller on the radio pointed out yesterday, Johnny Cash, former penitentiary inmate sang:

    “I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die”

    The Conservatives loved him.

  114. aislander says:

    ehill: I am fully aware of Obama’s alleged budget proposal. It is neither a serious document in light of the staggering debt we have incurred, which it does nothing to stanch or address in the slightest, nor have the Dems in Congress taken it up so that there is something for that body to discuss. The Republicans DO have a budget proposal on the table, but all the Dems do is attack aspects of it rather than offering their own proposal or a counter-proposal…

  115. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 13, 2011 at 7:30 am
    ehill: I am fully aware of Obama’s alleged budget proposal. It is neither a serious document in light of the staggering debt we have incurred, which it does nothing to stanch or address in the slightest, nor have the Dems in Congress taken it up so that there is something for that body to discuss. The Republicans DO have a budget proposal on the table, but all the Dems do is attack aspects of it rather than offering their own proposal or a counter-proposal…”

    Funny. The Dems budget does “nothing to stanch or address”, but the GOP’s budget proposal changes Medicare in 2022. Will someone explain how changing Medicare in 2022 does something for today’s debt?

    Dog and pony show for the TEA Party numbskulls who don’t realize that the GOP is taking from one pocket and putting it in another.

    Pity the poor Majority party that has to lead.

    The GOP got by on playing defense from 2007 to 2011 and now are complaining because they can’t do the same as the majority party???????

  116. Roncella says:

    Publico, What are you tring to say in your post ? By the way incase you haven’t noticed the tea party movement is a majority movement in the nation.

    Everything you attacked, they are for, which means your beliefs are in the minority, a fringe few who are bias leftest, liberals, its tough for you to accept but your beliefs are extreme, and socialistic for sure.

  117. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Your telling me that Michelle Obama could not find someone to do rap who was not defending cop killers in their rap ??, sad, disappointing, an embarrassment to all Americans who respect and admire the Police all over the Nation, in the work they do in keeping us all safe.

  118. LarryFine says:

    beerBoy says:
    January 4, 2011 at 8:56 am
    rr – are you suggesting that the US Dept of Labor is somehow pure and not subject to manipulating statistics for political gain?

  119. LarryFine says:

    xring says:
    May 12, 2011 at 7:18 pm
    … the right wing trolls are so blind, deaf, and dumb they make a zombie look like a rocket scientist.

    .

    xring says:
    March 3, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    I don’t throw sticks and stones
    .
    That’s all you do…

  120. LarryFine says:

    There’s a new Obama Action figure out now. He’s dressed up as a Seal Team Six soldier… they used Michelle’s body.

  121. aislander says:

    No one says that future changes to “entitlements” are to address today’s deficits. It’s just something that needs to be done. Republicans in the Senate are proposing a budget that doesn’t address them, simply to remove a political target from Dem sights…

  122. KARDNOS says:

    Uh……Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are all insurance policies, not entitlements.

    Try losing the Right Wing Rhetoric before addressing the issue.

  123. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 13, 2011 at 8:06 am
    KARDNOS, Your telling me that Michelle Obama could not find someone to do rap who was not defending cop killers in their rap ??, sad, disappointing, an embarrassment to all Americans who respect and admire the Police all over the Nation, in the work they do in keeping us all safe.”

    This is a classic “Roncella”. Despite the material posted that demonstrates that Assata Shakur could have just as easily been defending herself from police known to murder Black Panthers, Roncella continues to parrot the line that FOX fed him.

    Now here is a sample of Bush 1’s rapper: (I couldn’t copy much more because the auto edit would delete the lyrics anyway)

    “Take out the security guard with a slap of my hand
    Yeah, he’s wearin’ a badge”

    It goes on in profane detail about taking his gun and…..well…you’ll just have to look it up.

    Common has been producing rap for a decade. One cut honors Shakur (again, consider ALL the facts in the case). The rest of his material is about improving your life.

    Roncella, since Robin Hood was a thief and the government opposed him, should we eliminate all books, movies and TV re-runs about him?

  124. KARDNOS says:

    As far as admiring police across the nation…..who is trying to break their unions??????

  125. KARDNOS says:

    “aislander says:
    May 13, 2011 at 8:18 am
    No one says that future changes to “entitlements” are to address today’s deficits. It’s just something that needs to be done.”

    If it “needs to be done” and is “contributing to the debt”…..where’s the leadership?

  126. SadujTogracse says:

    The “cold blooded murder” starts sounding like self defense.

    Well considering she was pulled over for a traffic violation I guess Kardnos thinks it’s ok to shoot em out with the police when you get pulled over for speeding. After all it’s just self defense (eyeroll). Nevermind she was CONVICTED for the murder in court, nevermind she escaped from prison, nevermind she fled to Cuba, let’s all sing her praises through song! This is the mentality of people like Kardnos and common.

  127. aislander says:

    re: police unions. Non sequitur much?

  128. aislander says:

    lians: The killer had the officer’s brain matter on her shoes, which could have gotten on them only by her standing over the officer’s body and shooting him in the head as he lay bleeding. Yup–sounds like self defense!

  129. Roncella says:

    It never ceases to amaze me how fast and hard some of the very extreme left/Liberals will defend even a rap star who raps about folks who are accused of violently killing innocent Policemen.

    These Liberals can’t put their bias remarks asside even to amit that Michelle Obama was wrong to invite common(no cents) to the Whitehouse and give him respect, and more exposure, Unbelieveable….

  130. Publico says:

    Ron, if you cannot tell what I was saying, it reinforces what I was saying. Does that help? It ties in with the decline we see in our poorly funded and undercompensated system of public education. Just maybe, that is why the tea party has as its many followers.

  131. sue1234 says:

    One more time… the gop is nothing but a cult for rich white men.
    They put their ideology before the best interests of America……
    Paul Ryan’s budget is just a regurgitation of their sociopathic ideology.
    Boehner has failed across the board as Speaker of the House because all this poor drunk can do is follow his cult’s ideology.

    What do you call a group of people who all hold the same delusions and who claim they have the answers for the entire human population? .. the gop.. oops.. i mean a cult.

  132. aislander said: “The Republicans DO have a budget proposal on the table, but all the Dems do is attack aspects of it rather than offering their own proposal or a counter-proposal…”

    The GOP controls the House. Why can’t they pass a budget? They have a majority. Why can’t they accomplish anything?

    Why do you have a problem with the Democrats’ behavior? They’re behaving just like the GOP did 2009 and 2010. Are you saying that sort of behavior is good, but only when the GOP is doing it?

  133. aislander says: “[Social Security and Medicare] are…transfer…payments…also…called…”entitlements…”

    So of course you’re going to put your money where your mouth is and pledge not to avail yourself of them when you’re eligible, aren’t you?

  134. Roncella said: “These Liberals can’t put their bias remarks asside even to amit that Michelle Obama was wrong to invite common(no cents) to the Whitehouse and give him respect, and more exposure, Unbelieveable….”

    I wonder where your concern was when Ronald Reagan had terrorists at the White House, or when George Bush had repeated meetings with Ken Lay.

  135. aislander says:

    ehill: The Enron crimes occurred during the Clinton admin. PROSECUTIONS were during the Bush era.

    I’d be interested in knowing which terrorists visited the Reagan White House (wasn’t that almost thirty years ago, by the way?), but I do know that terrorist Yasser Arafat was a frequent visitor during the Clinton years…

    Yeah, we already know the Dems are reluctant to pass a budget. After all, they didn’t pass one when they had total control of Congress, so what the minority did or did not do at that time was irrelevant…

  136. the tea party movement is a majority movement in the nation.

    ROTFLMAO

    LF – tasteless misogyny. You could have gone for a joke about Obama but you had to attack Michelle’s body that isn’t reality based.

  137. I do know that terrorist Yasser Arafat was a frequent visitor during the Clinton years…

    And how would you suggest else should he have attempted negotiations with the head of the, then, governing body of the Palestinians?

  138. “The Republicans DO have a budget proposal on the table”

    Which no serious econimst is endorsing or even taking slightly serious because it’s a joke. So much of a joke that even the GOP has backed off from entirely.
    So much for that.

    I will ask again, is there anything you get correct?

  139. “I’d be interested in knowing which terrorists visited the Reagan White House”

    The Taliban had quite a group in the raygun white house, they were there to get a very large check from him. He, rayguy, spoke very highly of them.
    Do a google, there is a famous photo with a nice little quote from your hero praising them.

    Do you get anything correct?

  140. Your telling me that Michelle Obama could not find someone to do rap who was not defending cop killers in their rap

    Ron, we are a week into this phoney ginned up ‘scandel over nothing, I would think that by now you would have taken a few quick seconds to check things out for yourself. Considering how fox is a proven liar network, I would think that in order to not look like a total fool you would know how wrong they are……..again.

    Do you ever bother to check them out or do you just robot like parrot everything you hear as gospil?

  141. roncella will just have to ignore the putdowns from the people that ignore what is happening to the America we used to know.Those same complainers will eventually get what they deserve,unfortunatually if the voters don’t wake up,they will find themselves in the same sinking ship.

  142. aislander:

    “ehill: The Enron crimes occurred during the Clinton admin. PROSECUTIONS were during the Bush era.”

    Why did Bush have regular meals with Lay?
    —–
    “I’d be interested in knowing which terrorists visited the Reagan White House”

    Glad to oblige.

    The Taliban: http://www.legitgov.org/graphics/reagan_taliban_1985.jpg
    The Contras: http://www.de-fact-o.com/php_uploads/Image/contra_mtg.jpg
    —–
    “Yeah, we already know the Dems are reluctant to pass a budget.”

    You didn’t answer the question I asked. Why haven’t the GOP passed a budget? After all they control the House now.

  143. aislander,

    While it wasn’t taken at the White House, who can forget this picture?

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

  144. Roncella says:

    Sincere, Many of the liberals who post regularly here, come unglued whenever anyone criticizes President Obama or Michelle for reason.

    Yet many of the liberals and democrats criticized President Bush for eight years and some go on criticizing and blaming Bush and Cheney for all that is wrong even now.

    It is entertaining watching them twist and turn their comments in many different directions to defend and make excuses for President Obama V.,P. Biden and Pelosi, Reids mistakes and out of control spending. .

  145. If you want to talk about pictures, let’s start with Obama bowing to Saudi princes, Chinese heads of state, Hugo Chavez etc. etc. We might also add a picture of Vann Jones professing to be a commie, and bringing Jeremiah Wright to the White House. That’s just a sampling of potential photos for you to look at.

  146. As I said on another post, the transition of the White House is just about complete. All that needs to be done is to have some dice players in the Rose Garden. convert the presidential limos to low-riders, and install a 7-11 sign and phone booth in front of the White House.

  147. beerBoy says:

    frosty – it wasn’t funny the first two times I read it.

  148. KARDNOS, just curious, were you singing those lyrics out loud as you typed them? I’ll bet you’re one of those annoying people who drive around blasting that garbage from your car right? Sort of fits your persona

  149. beerboy, then I guess you have no imagination.

  150. aislander says:

    Your play, ehill (et al) apparently is to put me on the defensive and tied up with trivia. I’m not playing…

  151. aislander says:

    beerBoy writes: “And how would you suggest else should [Clinton] have attempted negotiations with the head of the, then, governing body of the Palestinians?”

    Key word: attempted. Result: Continuation of the 1st intifada, initiation of the second.

    …should have known a scorpion must be a scorpion…

  152. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    KARDNOS, just curious, were you singing those lyrics out loud as you typed them? I’ll bet you’re one of those annoying people who drive around blasting that garbage from your car right? Sort of fits your persona”

    Sorry to disappoint your racist attitude, frosty. I’m a fan of jazz, blues and Motown.

    Now what’s my personna?

    I’m guessing you like both kinds of music – country AND western.

  153. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 13, 2011 at 8:03 am
    Publico, What are you tring to say in your post ? By the way incase you haven’t noticed the tea party movement is a majority movement in the nation.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    “The approval rating for the 2-year-old movement fell to 32 percent in a CNN/Opinion Research corporation poll released Wednesday, the lowest it’s been since CNN first polled on the tea party in January 2010.

    Forty-seven percent of Americans, meanwhile, said they have an unfavorable view of the movement, a higher negative percentage than ever. Another 7 percent said they’d never heard of the movement, and 14 percent said they had no opinion.

    In December, 37 percent of the sample surveyed by CNN said they saw the tea party favorably, while 43 percent saw it unfavorably. The group’s favorability rating hovered between 36 percent and 38 percent throughout 2010.”

  154. Ithappened2me2 says:

    someone let sue have access to the computer again.

    Nice to see the TNT is trying to drum up more business.

  155. aislander says:

    …and what was the approval rating of the Democrat party? Hmmm?

  156. beerBoy says:

    aislander – You do know that both sides have to negotiate in good faith don’t you? Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres, who were selected along with Arafat for the Nobel Peace Prize, are at least equally responsible for the failure of the attempt.

    and….Rabin and Peres are, like their co-prize winner, were happy to employ terrorism when it suited their needs.

  157. beerBoy says:

    frosty – I imagine you thought that was a clever comeback.

  158. ron – Only 32% of TP identified candidates won in 2010.
    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/03/5403120-just-32-of-tea-party-candidates-win

    You really should stop making stuff up.

  159. A new Gallup poll shows that the tea party has lost major ground in terms of mainstream American support since last year’s crop of tea party candidates took office in January. Almost half of all Americans now have an unfavorable view of the tea party, compared to a third who hold a favorable view.

    Opinion on the tea party had remained more or less steady, with around 41 percent disapproval and 38 percent approval, from the time Gallup pollsters asked about the tea party in March 2010 right up until January, the last time the question was asked. In the three months since, unfavorable opinions jumped to 47 percent, while favorable opinions dropped to 33 percent.
    http://newmexicoindependent.com/69899/poll-tea-party-support-nosedives

  160. Just wait to see what the poll numbers are after the TPers refuse to budge on the debt ceiling and close down the government…..

  161. Roncella,
    RE 2010 elections: That was then and this is now.

    Look at New York’s 26th District – one of the reddest districts in the State. Latest poll numbers for the upcoming especial election show the D leading the R by 3 points, and the T by 11 points.

    The only T’s that won ran as R’s. The one’s that ran as T’s lost. And that will happen again in 2012. The T’s will act as a third party and drain R votes away.

  162. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, talk about stretchng facts to fit your agument, I hope kardnos isn’t rubbing off on you.

    Like I said to Kardnos did the teaparty and conservatives and republicans massacre the dems in the house and take many governorships and take control of many state houses in 2008 or Not ? Its a proven fact they did …..go figure….

    It would be convenient to be able to change history but not factual.

  163. Frosty says: “If you want to talk about pictures, let’s start with Obama bowing to Saudi princes”

    …and end with Bush kissing them and holding their hands.

  164. aislender said: “Your play, ehill (et al) apparently is to put me on the defensive and tied up with trivia. I’m not playing…”

    My “play” was to answer your question. Do you think your own question was trivial?

    Oh, and I note that you STILL haven’t answered the question I asked you: Why haven’t the GOP passed a budget? After all they control the House now.

  165. aislander says:

    The House Republicans HAVE a budget proposal on the table.

  166. When you can’t make a good argument against the facts,I see a lot of folks just cover the real facts up with a lot of BS.You know who you are and you know who I am refering To!

  167. Any any one who votes for Ryan’s Folly will have a very difficult time getting re-elected in 2012.

    Of course any GOP type that votes against it will have to contend with a Tpot and and Dem in 2012.

  168. beerBoy says:

    ron – explain where you think my citations are “Stretching the facts to fit my argument”?

    The Teaparty is a minority movement within the Republican party. Yet you claimed that the Teaparty was a majority movement of the entire country. Now, confronted by facts I provided you change it to ” the teaparty and conservatives and republicans “.

    Did you think that I wouldn’t notice how you have stretched your claim?

  169. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, come on your smarter than your last post. How can you deny that the Tea Party Movement was not successful in assisting the Republicans winning 64 seats in the House and many Governorships, including many state houses?

    How is that fact stretching my original statement about the Tea Party ?

    Your 11:10am post where your referenced some percentages of support for the Tea Party movement nation wide is where you stretched facts to fit your argument.(this was originally aimed at Kardnos who also likes to minimize the Tea Party Movement Nation Wide and the affects it had on elections Nation Wide.

  170. Roncella says:

    ehill, Its takes passage of the senate to get bills through the congress approved not just the House.

  171. It’s alot like trying to nail jello to a wall.

  172. aislander says:

    Then your walls must be constantly in motion, Pol…

  173. My walls?

  174. aislander says:

    Did I stutter?

  175. It never ends, does it, aislander? I have no idea what you meant by, “Then your walls must be constantly in motion, Pol…” so, you didn’t need to have stuttered.

    I’m sure that it was some form of one-up-mans-ship, so have at it.

  176. aislander says:

    You didn’t say you didn’t understand my reference to Jell-o’s propensity for wiggling after being moved (or nailed). By your simile, you must have a GREAT amount of the stuff on your walls, giving the illusion that the walls themselves are in constant motion. It wasn’t any great mystery, I don’t believe…

  177. The simile is that one cannot nail jello to a wall.

  178. aislander says:

    I understand the difficulty, but I am certain you overcame it…

  179. Yet again, you prove my point, aislander.

    It’s alot like trying to nail jello to a wall.

  180. Roncella says:

    Polago, If only you had the humility to know when to zip it and when not to.

  181. Show me how that’s done, Roncella.

    Be my guiding light.

  182. aislander says:

    Is…that a proposal, Polago?

  183. Roncella says:

    aislander, Lets Hope Not !!!???

  184. Roncella, it’s nice you help aislander in answering his posts.

    Birds of a feather do flock together, twiddle – dee & twiddle- dumb.

    I’d say that the shoe fits.

    Sometimes the truth hurts, buck up and move on.

  185. Roncella says:

    Polago, Why, I’m honored that you enjoy using my comments over and over again, I ejoy seeing them being used, thanks for the compliment.

  186. aislander says:

    What REALLY helps me with my posts is the staggering vapidity of lefty opinions. Fish in a barrel.

  187. You may pretend to find it complimentary but trust me when I say that I’m simply giving you your own crap back.

  188. You need to be shown that your cute little innuendos go both ways. They apply to you as well, so think about that before you accuse someone of that which you are equally guilty, Roncella.

    Your words are double edged swards.

  189. Roncella says:

    Polago, I was hoping semetimes to possibly enlighten you with my comments and perhaps give you another point of view on some issues.

    I see my opinions as something other than ” crap” as you describe them, but thats your opinion, and your welcome to it.

    You remind me alot of some folks who say I was born a democrat and I’ll die a democrat, no matter how far left the democratic party has shifted and keeps moving to the left.

  190. Can you not see that your entire comment applies to you as well, Roncella?

  191. Roncella says:

    Polago, I was a far left Liberal when I was in my twenties. My change to Conservatism was slow and steady, until my mid fifties.

    Its doubtful you have ever been anything other than a far left liberal leaning to a more socialistic form of Government, from the many posts you have written your opinions on.

  192. “My change to Conservatism was slow and steady, until my mid fifties.”

    Sounds like you’ve got a bad case of Alzheimer’s, Roncella.

  193. Roncella says:

    Polago, I can’t describe on these posts what you sound like sometimes.

  194. Anytime you want to quit this non-sense and communicate with us like respectful adults, just let me know, Roncella.

    Is this the way you want to behave? Two can play your game.

  195. Roncella says:

    Polago, before you spank anyone else take a good long hard look at your own attitude when posting, you don’t come across like a respectful adult , thats for certain..

  196. Usually my comments are respectful, Roncella. But I’ve been giving it back to you purposely, due to your arrogant comments concerning your low opinion of Liberals.

    It’s not my job to spank anyone. But I’m not going to sit here and take the kind of abuse that you seem to feel that you have the Right to dish out.

    We’re all in this together, even though we don’t always agree.

  197. If all you want to do is exchange snarky remarks, fine. But if you want intelligent respectful discourse then you have to be willing to be respectful in return.

    It’s a two way street.

  198. Roncella says:

    polago, my opinion of liberals is one that has taken many years to formulate.

    My remarks can get snarky when provoked by some. So can Yours.

    However I usually sincerely express my Conservative opinions not to be snarky but to be truthful and to the point.

    Do I respect many of the far left liberal senators or what they have done to America, not really.

    I truly believe its time for Conservatives to fight back and defend their beliefs no matter who attacks them or criticizes their opinions.

    Ronald Reagan, has many great lines of conservative thought. One that really hit home for me about all of us, liberals and conservatives, democrats and republicans,

    ” No people who have ever lived have fought harder, paid a higher price for freedom or done more to advance the dignity of man than Americans”,

  199. Notice that Reagan said Americans, not Conservatives, Roncella?

    You said, “I truly believe its time for Conservatives to fight back and defend their beliefs no matter who attacks them or criticizes their opinions.”

    Well don’t expect me to stand back and allow you to continue your abusive discourse, belittling those who claim to have a mental disorder without rubbing your nose in it. You’re no better than any one else.

  200. Roncella says:

    Polago, in my post about Reagan that I thought was outstanding, if you read it again, you will note I said it hit home for me, about all of us, Conservatives, Liberals, Democrats and Republicans.

    Don’t expect me to allow your snarky remarks to everything I and other Conservatives say without an answer directly back to you. You need to try to stay on the issues and leave out your little snid remarks.

  201. “You need to try to stay on the issues and leave out your little snid remarks.”

    As do you, Roncella.

  202. “However I usually sincerely express my Conservative opinions not to be snarky but to be truthful and to the point.”

    Many of your personal opinions about Liberals/Progressives are outlandish, Roncella. If you stuck to the facts, I would have nothing to object to.

  203. Roncella says:

    Polago, My comments about liberals come from many conversations and debates with them through the years.

    The truth does hurt, but sometimes it needs to be expressed and certain posts need to be answered to show both sides of an opinion or fact.

    You come across on the posts as a know it all, you remember in grammer school, you were no doubt the kid who waved his hand whenever the teacher asked a question of the class and always had an answer, (Brown Nose).

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