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OBAMA: What’s really behind the skepticism?

Letter by Mark P. Nelson, Lakebay on April 29, 2011 at 11:58 am with 125 Comments »
April 29, 2011 12:02 pm

Re: “Will skeptics accept birth certificate?” (TNT, 4-28).

This topic is hard to believe as a serious ongoing discussion. I was born in Japan of American parents, so I guess I never could become president. Maybe it’s the Hawaii thing, like it’s not really part of the U.S.

Actually that state has one of the highest rates of biracial marriages and kids. Looks to me this story is really about thinly disguised racism, and that large numbers of people just don’t want a black president with a black father and white mother.

Given our changing American demographics, I think we better get used to it.

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  1. It’s the black thing Mark, pure and simple.
    There is segment of the American population that simply can not accept that a black man is indeed the President. They have to build this fantisy world where he is somehow, no matter what, inelegable to be presidnet. It’s the only way they can get through the day, the only way in which the world seems ‘normal’ to them.

    There really is no other way to explain it.

  2. BlaineCGarver says:

    A racist commenting on a racist…how cute.

  3. BlaineCGarver says:

    I’ve seen this all my adult life: If the facts don’t work out correctly for Black people, cry racist.

  4. hansgruber says:

    Black thing? Obama was raised by his Caucasian mother and grandparents….give me a break

  5. the3rdpigshouse says:

    The guys color is irrelavent – “OH-Bummer” is a dedicated marxist/socialist who intends to “transform” the USA into another failed socialist State – that is why he must be removed from office ASAP!!!! Wake up people and get off the incessant whining about race!!!

  6. Mark you have fallen for the bait. It is always out there just waiting for the fish to bite on it.

    The Al sharptons and jesse jacksons and rev.wrights and many in the Main steam media use Race whenever they want to win an argument on any issue.

    I don’t agree with much of the job President Obama has done so far. But I do not hate or dislike him personally.

    He is far left Liberal and leans to a socialistic form of governance. Most Conservatives and Independents, Republicans, Blue Dog Democrats do not agee with much of what Obama has done so far, its not his race its his far left beliefs and policies that turn most folks off.

  7. Right on mark. You hit the nail on the head just as Eugene Robinson did today in his editorial column.
    The right’s outrageous attacks on the President are so over the top and specious that there can be only one explanation. I love it when they try to deny it and make other lame excuses just as ridiculous.
    A wolf in sheeps’ clothing is still a wolf and just as nasty.

  8. Ithappened2me2 says:

    So what is your explanation for the left’s outrageous over the top and specious attacks on President Bush?

  9. menopaws says:

    The Republicans have forgotten an important rule–you are a Patriot first and a Republican second. This birther issue has proven to the world that America’s hypocrisy is more important than it’s ideals of equality. This President was hounded to show his “papers” to prove his citizenship………..these attitudes diminish our ability to talk about equality and justice to the rest of the world. I am tired of those who claim to love this country–but only if a White Christian Conservative is in the White House. Obama won and keep it up and he will win again–and the tea party will be sent packing. People are getting fed up with this ugliness and refusal to accept this man as the duly elected Commander in Chief. This group makes me ashamed……behaving with dignity is outside their abilities.

  10. The right uses the anti-Obama attacks to mask their own attempts to destroy America by turing Her into oligarcy of the rich and relgious fundementalists.

  11. alindasue says:

    Roncella said, “The Al sharptons and jesse jacksons and rev.wrights and many in the Main steam media use Race whenever they want to win an argument on any issue. ”

    I agree that there are people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who have made a carreer of turning every issue into a racial issue. I am often led to wonder if they don’t want racial issues to be resolved because they would have to go out and get a real job (kind of like how I feel about Tim Eyman and tax issues), HOWEVER…

    “He is far left Liberal and leans to a socialistic form of governance. Most Conservatives and Independents, Republicans, Blue Dog Democrats do not agee with much of what Obama has done so far, its not his race its his far left beliefs and policies that turn most folks off. ”

    … if the issue were just President Obama’s policies, then why all this nonsense about demanding to see his birth certificate or proving whether or not he’s a Muslim? Has any other president or presidental candidate ever been asked to show his birth certificate to anyone outside of the paperwork filed to run for office?

    What about religion, eh? When John F. Kennedy ran for president, some people were concerned about a Catholic in the position, but no one questioned that he was the religion he said he was. President Obama has said that he is Christian. Who but he would no better what his own beliefs are. Why question it?

    Actually, why question it at all? It’s really none of our business. It says right in the Constitution that “no test of religion” was to be performed on people running for the office of president.

    The point is that IF your only concerns were President Obama’s policies, then we would be here in these forums debating policy issues and not whether the president should have shown us all his “long form” birth certificate two years earlier.

    So, if the reason wasn’t race and it wasn’t his policies, then what reason do you, the birthers, and the extreme “right” have for demanding such things that haven’t been demanded of any other president?

  12. “So what is your explanation for the left’s outrageous over the top and specious attacks on President Bush?”

    There were none and what he did get he earned.
    His approval rating 23% remember?

  13. The birthers that responded to this letter so far have more than proven the point of racism being the cause of their unfounded hatered of the President.

  14. “He is far left Liberal and leans to a socialistic form of governance.”

    You just have to laugh at that, I mean what else can you do?

  15. the3rdpigshouse says:

    alindasue – please name the last individual, prior to “OH-Bummer”, who spent a significant time right after his birth in a foreign nation and was fathered by a man from that foreign nation to be elected as President???! Our laws allow only a natural born U.S. Citizen to be elected as President of the United States and why someone would needlessly hold back that information for almost 3 years is bound to encourage those who would question his nationality!!! What happened to the “transparent” administration?

  16. Fibonacci says:

    I seriously question the intelligence level at this point of anyone that still quesitons Obama’s birth. We have seen the short form, the long form, the announcement in the paper at the time. What more could there be? Conspiracy theorists will NEVER beleive anything different. It shows plain downright stupidity, but then 45% of Republicans STILL believe he was not born in Hawaii. And Roncella, you question the intelligence of Liberals?

    3rdpig
    The socialists are comming to get you–check under your bed tonight.

  17. alindasue says:

    3rdpigshouse,

    I don’t know the biographies and family histories of all the presidents. What I do know is that a presidential candidate has to show proof of natural-born citizenship at the time he or she files for candidacy. If his documentation was legal and thorough enough to prove it to the election committee, it should be good enough for the rest of us.

  18. “Ithappened2me2 says:
    April 29, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    So what is your explanation for the left’s outrageous over the top and specious attacks on President Bush?”
    Name a couple that were not true.

  19. “Ithappened2me2 says:
    April 29, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    So what is your explanation for the left’s outrageous over the top and specious attacks on President Bush?”

    Please detail said “attacks”. Did someone question President Bush’s citizenship because of the color of his skin?

  20. Mark – you don’t get it.

    These people that were questioning Obama’s birth certificate didn’t question because of his skin color. They question his birth and citizenship because they don’t like his “policies”

    That is what you do when you philosophically disagree with someone.

    For instance – “Roncella, you are an illegal alien because you haven’t produced your birth certificate upon my demand.”

    See how it works, Mark?

  21. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Yup, there is the Kard trolling as usual.

  22. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Pub, you are so smart, use the Google and research it yourself.

    As sue1234 says, “what I say is fact until you prove me wrong”.

    So go Google and report back what you find.

  23. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Oh, Hollywood Obama is half “Black”, and half “White”. He chose which way to represent himself in life and chose the way that would give him the advantage.

    Because as sue1234 would say, white guys need not apply…..

  24. “KARDNOS says:
    April 29, 2011 at 3:55 pm
    “Ithappened2me2 says:
    April 29, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    So what is your explanation for the left’s outrageous over the top and specious attacks on President Bush?”

    Please detail said “attacks”. Did someone question President Bush’s citizenship because of the color of his skin? ”

    “Ithappened2me2 says:
    April 29, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    Yup, there is the Kard trolling as usual.”

    Yep. Trolling for a straight answer from a Conservative. The fishing sucks in this pond.

  25. “As sue1234 says, “what I say is fact until you prove me wrong”.”

    Uh…isn’t that the tactic used by the CONS about Obama’s birth certificate????

    It doesn’t exist until he proves them wrong???

    Oh wait. He did.

  26. The most frightening thing about it is that history is repeating itself. Whenever racism is called out, people reject it and denounce it as some one using the race card. How convenient to be able to turn your back to it and blame the victims of it! This country is not going to get past the issue of racism until we stand up at the onset and say its unacceptable. If you don’t like our president’s policies then fine- use your vote. BTW? His mother was a citizen and by definition to those birthers? Read the rest of the provision- they must be a natural born citizen AND to have resided in the United States for 14 years. Definition of a natural born citizen is one whose parent(s) are citizens. But not according to the birthers. You have to be born in the United States. IF we take the birther interpretation then they’d better explain their little logic problem- can a so called anchor baby become president? By their definition- Yes!

  27. Mark – remember, you are dealing with people that probably think “demographics” is artwork for the Democratic Party.

  28. Ithappened2me2 says:

    Frida, you are a little late to the party. The One finally put it to bed about where he was born. So why keep flogging a dead horse with your comments?

    Were you talking about the black Obama, or the white Obama?

  29. Nothing like the smell of racism at sundown.

  30. bobcat1a says:

    Piggy, nothing was held back. Obama released his LEGAL birth document while running for president, but you wouldn’t want to believe that, would you? Refuse to believe the facts and then criticize the absence of facts. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

  31. the3rdpigshouse says:

    For KARDNOS – request respond to the following.

    Leftist – lets talk a little real racism! The “Congressional Black Caucus” does not allow caucasian members – has Congress created a “Congressional White Caucus”???! There is a “Black Chamber of Commerce” organization – where is the “White Chamber of Commerce” located??!

  32. agent8698 says:

    The guy in this youtube video says that the long-form birth certificate that Obama released on 4-27 is not a copy of a paper document, but instead is something that has been assembled on a computer out of several parts. He goes into considerable detail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c&feature=feedlik

  33. Hey Karnos… still trying to get that Obama racism thingy going… well just curious… what is your opinion about the CEO of the Black Chamber of Commerce (Hispanics have got one too… I’m not a member… the regular, non-racial US Chamber of Commerce is fine with me)… anyway…

    CEO and his comment… a little taste here:

    Today on The Laura Ingraham Show, Harry Alford, president and CEO of the National Black Chamber of Commerce, blasted President Obama’s anti-business administration in an explosive interview. Alford, a 2008 Obama supporter, labeled the administration “Marxist” and “fanatical.” “They might as well put on the brown shirts and swastikas,” he said.

    Want more…

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/29/black_chamber_of_commerce_president_blasts_marxist_brownshirt_obama.html

    It really is simple, thir are those that are seeing the policies of this administration are destructive to the United States.

  34. labeled the administration “Marxist” and “fanatical.” “They might as well put on the brown shirts and swastikas,”

    Marxism has no connection to the brown shirts and swastikas and xx has posted yet another quote by someone who has no connection to reality.

    A little curious…..since the connection was being made between being a birther and racism…..how does the quote you cited on Dr. Laura’s show (the radio host made notorious for her unrepentent repetitive use of the “n-word”) have any connection?

    Here’s the deal xx – just because there are some black folks who are as stupid as white tea partiers doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t have a huge part of the birther Obamaphobia.

  35. short version… there is a renewed attempt to make any opposition to Obama’s policies racist… bulldongers… it is about him, the people around him, and the people who support the direction he is trying to take the country.

    You wanna have a discussion about policy, etc… then let’s go for it… we have and some good points have been made on all sides. The second some of try to take it down the racism road… then we are going all the way, we are going down that road where ever it takes… including the friggin’ cesspool.

    The man sucks at his job… it is really that simple.

    BB – are you sure you got the right Laura? By the way she (the Dr. one) actually had a good point, us dark (well medium for me) folk laugh every time you pigmented challenged folk try to take this issue on.

    “Some black folks” nope, there are a lot of dark folk who know what the deal is and how words are being used as a weapon against white folk and dey guilt. It’s unfair… it’s alright if you show me da money.

  36. Ithappened2me2 says:

    The source was from the Laura Ingraham show, not the Dr. Laura show. Two different peeps.

  37. menopaws says:

    I am tired of giving stupid and morally bankrupt people all this attention. Nothing this President provides will satisfy them. Already, the “photo shop”crowd is out there………Let’s be REALLY CLEAR–these are NOT patriots. these are people who don’t care if they diminish our President or diminish our country to the rest of the world. The press needs to quit covering them, we need to stop talking about them…….and they need to get stronger meds……..I love my country and watching these people drag it down because they are ignorant racist trash should come to an end. I hope it does because THEY are causing America harm around the world. Someone needs to point out to them what patriotism is all about—this has very little to do with loving your country……..sad, sick stuff.

  38. Roncella says:

    menopaws, Give me a break Please !!!

    Where in the heck was your outrage when Al Gore and others called President Bush a liar over and over again.

    Where was your outrage when President Bushes records from the service were lied about and Dan Rather a Liberal Hero lost his job over it.

    Where was your outrage, after 9-11 when the democrats in congress attacked Bush every way they possibly could, and never once that I can remember gave him credit for anything he accomplished for America.

  39. LarryFine says:

    I’ll help you bB.
    Since most any disagreement with Barry’s policies causes a lefty to call the person who disagrees a racist… what do you call the CEO of the Black Chamber of Commerce (presumably a black person) when he/she disagrees with Barry’s policies?

  40. I believe the word is – stupid…

    … just because there are some black folks who are as stupid as white tea partiers…

    Am I putting words in your virtual mouth BB?

  41. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Larry – he is referred to as honest, patriotic, & pro-American! Mr. Alford is a successful man who has demonstrated that your position in society is attained by hard work rather than becoming a dependent of the government !!!

  42. Of course, it is only pure unadulterated racism. How do I know? The letters from the racists in here trying to rationalize or justifiy their racism tell me. If they can’t do that they project their racism onto the smart people.
    These racists simply can not stand the fact the face of America today is black. Remember racists get their sense of self esteem collectively; using the color of their skin as the only determining factor. A black president has taken this only avenue for esteem away and these people are left hanging… no way for self esteem to develop now. The result is anger and fear and lies.

  43. It is really interesting how quickly the responders to any difference of opinion on anything related to politics or taxes start ranting and raving at each other. I always can count on you guys to make it difficult to wade through your postings to read sane postings from ordinary readers.

    I am a white male. I have white friends, who prior to the election of Obama, felt comfortable enough due to the longevity of our relationship to explicitly state they would NEVER vote for a black man for President.

    After casting their ballot and their candidate losing, these ‘friends’ quickly fell into questioning his birth status, his religion, anything other than his politics.

    I can respect a man or woman who opposes his or anybody’s politics based upon analysis. If you do not like a person because of his color, ethnic background, religion, etc please state so. If you’re proud to be a racist or discriminatory, why not say so. It is not illegal to say you dislike or hate a person or group based on irrational thinking. It’s covered by the First Amendment. Exercise your right!

  44. Sue#### – he is not a BLACK President… he is THE President…

    Race has nothing to do with his policies…. you either agree with his policies or you don’t.

  45. alindasue says:

    Still no one has satisfactorily answered the question I asked before.

    “The point is that IF your only concerns were President Obama’s policies, then we would be here in these forums debating policy issues and not whether the president should have shown us all his “long form” birth certificate two years earlier.

    So, if the reason wasn’t race and it wasn’t his policies, then what reason do you, the birthers, and the extreme “right” have for demanding such things that haven’t been demanded of any other president? ”

    John McCain, President Obama’s opponent in the election was born in Panama, yet no one asked for a public display of any of his documentation proving citizenship – and rightly so, since he was born on a military base. However, John McCain moved around as a child just as much as President Obama who was born in Hawaii, an actual state in the USA.

    Both gentlemen presented their documentation to the satisfaction of the election committee, so why is it that some of you still feel the need to demand that President Obama alone needed to make his documentation public? If it’s not his policies and isn’t his race, as many of you insist it isn’t, then what reason is it?

  46. ItalianSpring says:

    Bravo Hans!!!

    Aditionally,

    “Given our changing American demographics, I think we better get used to it.”

    Observe the price of political correctness and the cost of being liberal. “I think we better get used to it” translates to “we better get used to ignoring LAW and Constitutional law, at least when it effects select people.” See? I get it.

  47. I would vote for Allen West, who happens to be an Afican- American, but I would never vote for Obama. Does that make me a racist? There’s a number of African- Americans that would make great presidents, Obama is not one of them.

  48. the3rdpigshouse says:

    alindasue – FYI, by law, if you are the child of a U.S. serviceman on official orders and born out of the U.S. you are a natural born citizen! The comparison of McCain to “OH-Bummer” is not a valid comparison.

    FYI – the gov’t is supposed to work for the people – not the other way around. If the people question and want to see the proof of citizenship – provide it and move on! Quit wasting the people’s time and concentrate on doing your job!

  49. The only people who bring up the issue of race is always the liberals. It’s as if they can’t help themselves. That is the predominant issue on their little minds. That clown Chris Matthews spends his entire program talking about race, he is the biggest racist of all because that’s all he thinks about. The same with all of you liberals out there, you’re all a bunch of racist dogs. It’s time to call you people out on what you really are. Anyone who pays attention will note that the libs can’t talk about anything unless they throw in the race card. Race pimps like Brutha Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackso and Vann Jones make a living off of selling that B.S to their sheep, mind-numbed robot liberals. It doesn’t sell anymore so it’s time to show who the real homo- phobes and racists are, it’s the people who keep bringing it up.

  50. I’ve had three kids born outside the U.S.A. Each and everyone of them had to get their naturaliztion certificate upon arriving in the U.S. and I am a citizen.

  51. alindasue, the obvious reason no one has answered your foolish question is because it’s a foolish question. I was in the military, my wife was a German citizen so were my kids automatically American citizens? The answer is …..NO, that’s why I had to get them naturalized when we came to the states.

  52. The folks I see on this board calling “racist” the most are the white folks complaining about anyone of color suggesting that racism still is a problem in America.

  53. “frosty says:
    April 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm
    alindasue, the obvious reason no one has answered your foolish question is because it’s a foolish question. I was in the military, my wife was a German citizen so were my kids automatically American citizens? The answer is …..NO, that’s why I had to get them naturalized when we came to the states.”

    citizen n. person who by place of birth, nationality of one or both parents, or by going through the naturalization process has sworn loyalty to a nation. The United States has traditionally taken the position that an American citizen is subject to losing his/her citizenship if he/she commits acts showing loyalty to another country, including citizen n. person who by place of birth, nationality of one or both parents, or by going through the naturalization process has sworn loyalty to a nation. The United States has traditionally taken the position that an American citizen is subject to losing his/her citizenship if he/she commits acts showing loyalty to another country, including serving in armed forces potentially unfriendly to the United States, or voting in a foreign county., or voting in a foreign county.

    According to that definition, frosty is either:

    1. Lying
    2. Foolish enough to go through a process not required.
    3. Not telling us about “serving in armed forces potentially unfriendly to the United States”
    4. is not telling us about voting in a foreign county

    Otherwise, his children were citizens via his citizenship.

  54. An interesting aside to the silliness about Obama’s birth….

    A women was telling her office workers about her trip to Hawaii…over and over….to the point of annoyance. When she finally said….”and the best part was their money is exactly like ours”…..the laughter disrupted.

  55. ItalianSpring says:

    Frosty- those precious certificates of US citizenship are things Obomba doesn’t have. This means he has never renounced his Indonesian citizenship. He did this for a couple reasons 1) he is arrogant and 2) the USA was hated by his father (and is by BO currently) as it is viewed as a “colonialist” entity. Obomba has documented his disgust for colonialism and capitalism in his books.

  56. alindasue says:

    frosty said, “I was in the military, my wife was a German citizen so were my kids automatically American citizens? The answer is …..NO, that’s why I had to get them naturalized when we came to the states. ”

    The difference is that President Obama was born in the United States. Had your children been born in the United States, they would not have needed to be naturalized.

  57. Dave98373 says:

    And Mr. Nelson, I am sure you have plenty of evidence to back up your claim of “disguised racism.” What a stupid remark! Most Americans want the same thing that the rest of the world wants: lower taxes, lower unemployment, and world security and world peace. If those goals are achieved, most Americans do not care the color of the skin or the religon of the President that happens to be in office. The only person keeping score seems to be you…quite a bigoted view since you only see things in black and white! You sir are the bigot! I never looked at my President as black or white…I view the President as an AMERICAN!!

  58. “Most Americans want the same thing that the rest of the world wants: lower taxes, lower unemployment, and world security and world peace. If those goals are achieved, most Americans do not care the color of the skin or the religon of the President that happens to be in office.”

    And because they are not getting ” lower taxes, lower unemployment, and world security and world peace.” They question the birthright and heritage of the man in the White House. Mind you, though, if Obama were not of mixed race and was European caucasion, they would have accused him of being a non-citizen. ::::::::::heavy sarcasm applied::::::::::

    Geeeeeeez, Dave are you blind or just plain ignorant?????

  59. I am so tired of the left constantly pointing a finger at the right about this birth certificate issue. You have only yourselves to blame. The right WAS NOT the first to bring it up. It was the left when Hillary Clinton brought it to the forefront in her over zealous attempt to smear Obama.

    This is typical of the left to use smear tactics and then blame someone else.

    Did you think that the right would not run with it once the left breached the topic? More typical and stupid lefties BS. You want to complain but not at the one who brought it up. More blah, blah, blah from the left.

  60. beerBoy says:

    pazzo – again with the “they did it first” defense of children. The ‘Left” stopped bringing the question almost as soon as they asked it, the “Right” have continued for three years. I won’t call your refusal to accept responsibility for your own actions “typical of the Right” – more typical of children.

  61. beerBoy says:

    it seems that certain words cannot be posted….tried a couple times to reference how similar a story told by u s c h a about living most of his adult life in Germany and how his German wife has a small pension is to the recent story by frosty and it wouldn’t post.

    u s c h a is verbotten!

  62. Obama played it out, and has finally done the right thing-produce it. Could have avoided 3 plus years of dumbness if he wanted to-but his intention was to attempt to paint everyone who doesn’t like his policies as “crazy birthers”. He kept the issue going by refusing to simply produce it. He is such a man-child it’s hilarious. Took Donald Trump goading him to make him produce it, then he has to take the most immature swipes over and over about Trump. SO funny, 2 or 3 jokes would have been the norm…..spending so much time shows just how big an egomaniac Obama is……he gives the Donald a run for his money on the ego scale.

  63. beerBoy says:

    TMell – The Republicans gave this to Obama by giving Trump (hardly a conservative as he has supported single payer) the top ranking in the pre-primary polls. Trump is using the issue to emphasize is base-right stances (and he has several from the past) so the base won’t base their opinions upon his all over the map statements that include some leftist memes.

    Obama saw a big, fat softball and swung his bat. The GOPers who actually have the gravitas to seriously compete are kept out of the limelight for a few more weeks and the entire Party is being measured by the lunatic fringe.

    As a conservative commentator stated on Face the Nation today – reasonable people stopped thinking about this a long time ago. Since over half of registered Repubs think that there might be some there there that pretty much makes it clear that nearly half of registered GOPers aren’t reasonable.

  64. beerBoy says:

    An example of just how delusional the birthers are:

    whatreallyhappened.com is a conspiracy web site that was created to explore the “murder” of Vincent Foster, it regularly contains articles supporting the 9/11, JFK assassination, RFK assassination, and MLKjr. assassination conspiracy theories, along with a whole host of other conspiracy theories.

    That site has repeatedly stated how stupid the whole birther conspiracy theory is – instead offering a theory that, while Obama is indeed a natural born American, he was a “love – child”, hence the reticence to share the full documentation.

    If even dedicated conspiracy theorists are calling the birthers looney you have to realize just how far from reality these folks are.

  65. Roncella says:

    alindasue, You talk about some of the comments here being racist. Interesting you don’t criticize The Rev. Wright. You remember him don’t you ?

    The Rev. Wright Was or is President Obamas Paster for over 20 years. Obama’s children were both baptized by The Rev. Wright.

    There is no better example of a Racist then The Rev. Wright. His sermons of hate for America, Whites and Jews can be found in many of his hateful angry sermons.

    The Rev. Wright has used the Race Card to his advantage. He recently moved into a new custom built mansion he had built in a majority White suburb of Chicago. Yes the Rev. Wright is living the good life unlike many of the poor blacks he screams his hateful sermons to in the slums on the south side of Chicago. Shame on him, he’ll meet his maker some day soon as we all will and hopefully be punished for his lies and hate filled sermons.

  66. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, The whole birther movement was started by democrats who questioned Obama’s birth place.

    This occured during the election of 08. It could have been stop in its tracks had President Obama produced his actual birth cirtificate.

    He would not and left the issue boil and boil out there until The Donald challenged Obama to Produce his Actual Birth Certificate, not his certificate of birth.

    The blame for the formation of the birthers goes to President Obama.

  67. KARDNOS, I personally don’t give a rat’s butt about your opinion on why my kids were required to be naturalized upon returning from overseas. I am an American citizen, I served in the U.S Army, not the any foreign military, I’ve never voted in another country and I was told by the U.S. Army that my kids had to be naturalized. I don’t care if you believe it or not. You are some kind of idiot if you think you know what other people have or have not been required to do. You can keep your dope smoking opinions about something that you are totally ignorant of to yourself.

  68. Beerboy, are you sober yet? I can’t make any sense out of your attempt to draw some kind of comparison between oscha and myself. If you are lucid enough, try again.

  69. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 1, 2011 at 10:22 am
    KARDNOS, I personally don’t give a rat’s butt about your opinion on why my kids were required to be naturalized upon returning from overseas.”

    It’s not my opinion. It’s information from Immigration and Naturalization, Frosty.

    You see the difference between you and I is that I look stuff up.

  70. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 1, 2011 at 9:47 am
    beerBoy, The whole birther movement was started by democrats who questioned Obama’s birth place.”

    Roncella repeats the lie, so Kardnos repeats the reply:

    A staffer on Clinton’s campaign brought it up. She squashed it, then the Republicans picked up the ball and ran for THREE YEARS with it until they were embarrassed this week by the President.

  71. KARDNOS says:

    “There is no better example of a Racist then The Rev. Wright.”

    How many black people has Reverand Wright hung in the name of Jesus Christ and the White Race?

    no better example? Interesting, Roncella.

    The cleaners called and ……oh nevermind, it’s an old joke…

  72. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, You have your comments backwords and mis- directed as usual.

    The only one thats embarrassed about President Obama Finally releasing his Actual Birth Certificate should be and is Obama himself.

    His refusal to release his Birth Certificate for over 2 1/2 years for all to see is what caused the birthers and others to question his background and legal right to be President.

    The Rev. Wright is another embarrassment for Obama. This hateful mean Racist Minister who Obama and his family sat and listened to every week for over twenty years and who has preached his hate for years and years on the South Side of Chcago and has become very rich from it.

    Its hippocritical of him to choose to live in a predominately White suburb of Chicago where all those rich white folks live, on estates, in million dollar mansions, a gated community and all, yes, Whats very good for The Rev. Wright apparently is not also very good for his poor perishers that give him all that money each week, so he can live in grand style as he does.

    I happen to be born and raised on the south side of Chicago and I know alot about that neighborhood, and about Rev. Wrights church.

  73. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella – why should Obama be ashamed to expose all the liars like Trump and Tate?

    As to Reverand Wright – He is not Obama, never has been Obama and never will be Obama. Judging Obama based on Reverand Wright is like judging President Bush on Ted Haggard who make weekly trips to the White House.

    Wait a minute….Haggard was a known crack addict and sex addict…maybe you have something with tying people together…..

    Don’t forget that Reverand Wright is a decorated veteran. Support your troops.

    Meanwhile, Roncella, you have not proven your right to be in our country. I claim you are an illegal alien and you have to prove me wrong.

  74. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella, you either must be ashamed to not prove me wrong, or….if you do, you were ashamed enough to prove me wrong.

    That’s the way it works…..right?

  75. KARDNOS says:

    oh…and pardon my mispelling in my haste….it’s ‘Reverend”

  76. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella, I’m from North/Central Tacoma and I know plenty about racists. You’re doing a great job fulfilling the role.

    (now watch, boys and girls how he calls me a liar because I live in Olympia now)

  77. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella….tell us ONE THING about Reverend Wright’s church that hasn’t been misrepresented by FOX, DRUDGE or some other wacko media.

  78. KARDNOS says:

    Here, I’ll go first….

    “Wright was then trained as a cardiopulmonary technician at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of President Lyndon B. Johnson (see photo of Wright caring for Johnson after his 1966 surgery). Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House Physician, Vice Admiral Burkley, personally wrote Wright a letter of thanks on behalf of the United States President.”

    A terrible racist kept a white man with a heart issue alive.

    Your turn.

  79. KARDNOS says:

    Oh darn…Roncella doesn’t want to play anymore…

  80. beerBoy says:

    His sermons of hate for America, Whites and Jews can be found in many of his hateful angry sermons.

    Then it should be very easy for you to find something to cite to support your accusation.

    Why don’t you?

  81. beerBoy says:

    Its hippocritical of him to choose to live in a predominately White suburb of Chicago where all those rich white folks live, on estates, in million dollar mansions, a gated community

    because only “good blacks” like Bill Cosby can live large?

  82. beerBoy says:

    or maybe….because he isn’t a racist and living next to white folks doesn’t bother him.

  83. beerBoy says:

    I find that, in small phrases, frosty actually tells the truth. To wit:
    I can’t make any sense

  84. KARDNOS says:

    beer……..comment of the week! My compliments.

  85. xx98411 says:

    Paybacks are definitely hell.

    I hope you don’t think this is over and Trump will crawl back into the hole he crawled out of.

    Let us revue what has happened here…. Earlier this week, a carnival barker has badgered the most powerful man in the most powerful office in the most powerful country in the history of the world to the point that the response was to acquiesce and provide said document.

    Saturday, the President doubles down and openly mocks, along with a sidekick, the carnival barker bringing himself and the Office down to the level of an egotistical, big mouth, entertainer… commonly referred to as the gutter.

    Get the popcorn, this is just getting started.

    As they say “The whole world is watching” They sure are and the smiles you see and the laughter you hear is AT us not with us.

  86. SSounder says:

    Who cares Bin Laden is dead.

  87. beerBoy says:

    xx Get the popcorn, this is just getting started.

    And the only one to benefit will be Obama. The Republicans can’t field a serious candidate who has charisma and name-recognition. The continuing side-show with the freak with the bizarre hair makes this very evident.

  88. KARDNOS says:

    xx is still trying to make this Obama’s fault. LOL.

  89. xx98411 says:

    Yes, exactly BB, the “freak with the bizarre hair” will make this a side show about him using the President.

    Good effort trying to make this about the GOP and a “serious candidate” It is early, the only people who want the 2012 race to start now are TV pundits to give them something to talk about and supporters of Obama to give them a target to focus on. It is way to early…

    Fault??? this has nothing to do with fault, a clown accuses and the President responds… no fault, just what has happened over the past week or so…

  90. KARDNOS says:

    The Donald and President Obama were playing poker with some guys.

    The President, poker faced as usual, keeps betting up. The Donald, holding no cards, keeps loudly claiming the President is bluffing. Final cards are dealt and the President keeps poker faced and puts up a final bet. The Donald, loudly claims he is bluffing and doubles the bet. President Obama sees his bet.

    The Donald produces nothing and the President shows a Royal Flush. The President collects all the money on the table.

    Now, according to a Conservative, the President should be embarrassed.

    But wait…I have another.

    A Conservative billionaire, a teacher and Tea Party member are eating cookies. The billionaire takes 11 of the 12 cookies. The teacher takes half of the remaining cookie and the billionaire tells the Tea Partier – “hey that guy is taking half of your cookie!!!!!

    :::::takes bow:::::::

  91. KARDNOS says:

    “Good effort trying to make this about the GOP and a “serious candidate”

    According to the TNT poll, The Donald was the second choice barely behind Newt Gingrich as the GOP candidate.

    I guess that is the News Tribune’s fault.

  92. frosty says:

    beerboy, like it or not, I make more sense in two sentences than both you and your pot-smoking friend KARDNOS make in the volumes of rhetoric that both of you provide for our entertainment. I must admit that I do read your stuff, usually, but tend to skip over KARDNOS’S prolific meanderings. He appears to be a lonely soul crying out for attention.

  93. KARDNOS says:

    “a clown accuses”

    which one? Trump? Bachman? Gingrich? Boehner by default?

    The list goes on and on, if you’d like more.

    I purposefully left Tate out as she is beyond clownship.

  94. KARDNOS says:

    frosty says:
    May 2, 2011 at 7:52 am
    beerboy, like it or not, I make more sense in two sentences than both you and your pot-smoking friend KARDNOS make in the volumes of rhetoric that both of you provide for our entertainment. I must admit that I do read your stuff, usually, but tend to skip over KARDNOS’S prolific meanderings. He appears to be a lonely soul crying out for attention.”

    Well, as someone that has been clean and sober for over 22 years, I can comfortably say that Frosty is lying through he teeth. He reads everything I post. If only Frosty could say the same about himself…..

  95. xx98411 says:

    Ok, it’s official… karnos you need to control your bowels are you are just pooping all over the place in an attempt to make some point know only to you…

    Good luck.

  96. xx98411 says:

    PS – congrats on the 22 years…

  97. frosty says:

    KARDNOS, “the difference between you and me, I look stuff up”. Well KARDNOS, I don’t care what you look up. I know that in 1962, when I came back from Germany, I was told that if I wanted to ensure that my kids would not have :”dual citizenship” because they were born in Germany, they had to be naturalized. I doubt that you were even around at that time, so you don’t know what you’re talking about. You need to keep focusing on things that you do know about, like the effort to legalize pot or legalization of gay marriage.

  98. frosty says:

    KARDNOS, I don’t need two sentences to show you to be a fool, you do a pretty good job of that in the ramblings that you post.

  99. Roncella says:

    DARDNOS, You have no idea how dirty the politics of Chicago are and have always been.

    President Obama has rubbed elbows with some colorful charactors while living for many years on the South side in a very unique neighborhood.

    One very close associate and friend is currently serviing time in jail. Another is responsible for terror attackes against govenment employee’s and buildings some years ago. The xgovernor of Illinois enjoyed a close friendship and association with Obama, as he is under investagation for wrong doing in filling Obama’s old senate seat.

    The Rev. Wright fits in nicely with all the cast of charactors. Another wing nut who Obama seems comfortable to associate with for well over 20 years..

    President Obama’s closest advisor is the son of the Old Boss Of Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. He currently is Obama’s chief in charge of everything Obama says and does.

    The Newly elected Mayor of Chicago a jem of a man. His reputation for having a filthy mouth and was one of Obama closest advisors before running for Mayor of Chicago. This mean, nasty, angry extreme liberal democrat will fit nicely in Chicago Politics.

    As for making fun of The Donalds Hair and his mannerisms, and self confidence, when your worth as much as he is, I’d say he is doing something right to be so successful, especially living in this current Obamaeconomy.

    The Donald at least had the gonads to challenge President Obama to show his actual birth Certificate once and for all and stop the debate that was going on for over 2 1/2 years about his birth certificate, and place of actual birth.

    Its very doubtful he will wind up as the person who will run against Obama in the next election for 2012, however it will be interesting watching him chew up and spit out some of the establishment republicans and debating President Obama would really be great T.V, entertainment and a learning experience for Obama to learn about American enterprize and business formations and so much more.

  100. frosty says:

    Roncella, very well put. My dad lived in Chicago back when the mayor was Daley Sr. in the 60’s and 70’s. He told me about all of the shenanigans going on that were clearly known to most people at the time. It hasn’t changed at all, if anything, it’s probably worse now than ever. For anyone to ignore the fact that Obama is a product of that environment is just plain hypocrisy. These guys make Al Capone look like a sunday school boy.

  101. Roncella says:

    Frosty the folks who are born and raised in the Pacific NorthWest have no ideal how dirty and cruel the political game is played in big cities like Chicago, New York, Boston, Detroit, and some others.

    After moving to the NorthWest I was always grateful that for the most part the follks holding office in Washington especially folks like Henry Jackson a Conservative Democrat and Maggie a good respectable Liberal and some of the Governors also where of very good character.

    However the current Governor and murray and cantwell and some others are almost an embarrassment to the voters and to the state of Washington.

  102. KARDNOS says:

    “Roncella says:
    May 2, 2011 at 8:19 am
    DARDNOS, You have no idea how dirty the politics of Chicago are and have always been.”

    Everything I need to know about dirty politics is in Karl Rove’s handbook.

    Ask John McCain how he felt when Rove did a “push poll” asking southern voters if they’d vote for him even though he fathered an illegitimate black child.

    If Ann Richards was alive, you could ask her about Rove floating the story in Texas about her being a lesbian.

    Of course, you clowns try the same trick with Patty Murray, who has done more for veterans than anyone presently in Congress.

  103. KARDNOS says:

    “frosty says:
    May 2, 2011 at 8:00 am
    KARDNOS, “the difference between you and me, I look stuff up”. Well KARDNOS, I don’t care what you look up.”

    Need I say more?

  104. KARDNOS says:

    “xx98411 says:
    May 2, 2011 at 7:58 am
    Ok, it’s official… karnos you need to control your bowels are you are just pooping all over the place in an attempt to make some point know only to you…

    Good luck.”

    Someone is fecal focal

  105. KARDNOS says:

    “but tend to skip over KARDNOS’S prolific meanderings”

    Doing one heck of a job at it, Frosty. Hanging on my every word.

  106. alindasue says:

    Roncella said again, “The Donald at least had the gonads to challenge President Obama to show his actual birth Certificate once and for all and stop the debate that was going on for over 2 1/2 years about his birth certificate, and place of actual birth. ”

    We’ve been through this issue ad nauseum. The birth certificate he presented for the last couple years was a legally issued government document and sufficient proof of him being a natural-born citizen. It was good enough for the election committee. It was good enough for him to get a passport. It should have been good enough for you.

    However, to appease people like you and “The Donald” who continue to see conspiracies in his every step, President Obama went through the extra effort it takes to obtain a “long form” birth certificate. The issue is settled now. Done. You are beating a long dead horse.

    I’d suggest leaving it out of your future comments. Your theories about President Obama having connections to “dirty” Chicago politics might be a little easier to take seriously if you did.

  107. KARDNOS says:

    “The Newly elected Mayor of Chicago a jem of a man. His reputation for having a filthy mouth”

    Roncella must have missed The Donald’s speech to the Republican Ladies in Las Vegas.

  108. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, You must have missed V.P (foot in mouth) Bidens remark to Your Hero President Obama when he forced through his bankrupt Obamacare bill and called a news conference to announe its passage, Joe leaned over and said ” this is really a big F-ING deal Mr. President, yes sir re, a big F-ing deal.

    I don’t like folks using that kind of language no matter who they are or what political party they happen to belong to, however Clinton used very colorful language as did Johnson, as did Nixon, so I’d say there is enough dirty talk made by many politicians to note they sould clean their acts up.

    Remember The Donald is not currently holding office he is a private citizen, so what ever language he may use is his business only.

  109. Roncella says:

    Alindasue, Come now admit it, it took the Donalds challenging Obama to produce his ACTUAL birth certificate day after day on every interview he went on for almost two weeks before Obama finally caved in and produced it.

    Why it took Obama over 2 1/2 years to produce his Birth certificate no one will ever know.

    Even after Oprah asked Obama why did you wait so long before producing your actual birth certificate, Obama would not answer the question she asked, he laughed and smiled and and made a joke instead.

  110. KARDNOS says:

    “I don’t like folks using that kind of language no matter who they are”

    Which is why you just took Emmanuel to task until I shoved The Donald in your face.

    You know what Roncella? You need to study the First Amendment of that Constitution that you so love to spew about but know nothing about.

    If “profanity” offends you – tough luck. it’s not your call. Plug your ears. You seem to be good at it when a fact is presented to you.

    Now, why did Obama take 2 1/2 years to produce a birth certificate? Because there is no requirement that he present one. He is a legal citizen of the United States, regardless of what you clowns say.

  111. KARDNOS says:

    Roncella….by the way….where is your birth certificate? You still haven’t proven you are not an illegal alien. What do you have to hide?

  112. KARDNOS says:

    “Remember The Donald is not currently holding office he is a private citizen, so what ever language he may use is his business only.”

    There is nothing in the First Amendment to restrict speech by an elected official.

    Learn the Constitution before you take your naturalization test.

  113. SadujTogracse says:

    I wish this Kardnos person would comment more. In fact I think the TNT should just start a separate Kardnos blog page for people that like to comment 24/7.

  114. Roncella says:

    sadu, are you serious or making a joke about KARDNOS, ???

    If your serious, you need help in understanding current affairs and comprehending the News and Politics in General.

    Especially if you agree with Dardnos comments !!

  115. Roncella says:

    KARDNOS, Whats your excuse for the language V.P.Biden used on T,V. at Obama’s News Conference ?

    kardnos, unlike your hero Obama, I’m not the President of the United States, so my birth certificate or lack of one is none of your business, your a real piece of work to try and have an intelligent conversation with.

  116. SadujTogracse says:

    Roncella, well I am serious about the separate blog thing. Leave Kardnos to comment as much as he likes there and leave the LTE section for serious commenters who don’t hog the entire thread. Kardnos is the most annoying poster. He already ruined one newspaper forum (although it is returning back to normal since he left) now he’s on track to doing the same on this forum.

  117. Roncella says:

    Sadu, Sorry, I now understand what your saying and I agree with your opinion.

    I usually ignore most of his posts and speed read his posts as I read the other posts.

  118. LarryFine says:

    … at least someone reads them… that’s more than me.

  119. beerBoy says:

    … at least someone reads them… that’s more than me.

    So that little research project of yours to log all of his posts and the time codes to determine how much time he spends here is on hold?

  120. beerBoy says:

    I’m a little confused here……KARDNOS is snail and backwards snail is who? Cuz, when backwards snail first appeared it admitted to being another incarnation of forward snail but then the original Judas disappeared and the backwards version had a sudden shift to the right.

    Sometimes I think that the majority of participants on this little board are all Cybil.

  121. frosty says:

    Well, I see that I’m not the only one who sees this KARDNOS person for what he really is. I’ve noticed that many of the hard core liberal nut-jobs have a tendency to ramble on and on and on and on. The talking machines on MSNBC are perfect examples of this, Matthews, O’Donnell, Shultz, and the “butch” chick (who’s name is not worth remembering) offer proof positive that KARDNOS is just another of their breed. That malady has become more evident as the children of druggies from the 60’s mature, or in their case, never mature. Chances are that many of them were conceived during some drug infested rock concert.

  122. LarryFine says:

    “research project” what “praytell” are you blathering about?

    It takes mere minutes to glimpse these threads and see how many hours of the day someone spends here.
    Heck, you don’t even need to read their garbage to see who spends the most time here…

  123. SadujTogracse says:

    Beerboy frontward snail is Kardnos as well as old lefty as well as x_6zero as he’s already admitted. Cybil would be an accurate assesment.

  124. beerBoy says:

    And who are you?

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