Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

FEDERAL BUDGET: U.S. has a revenue problem

Letter by Timm C. Stone, Lake Tapps on April 4, 2011 at 1:45 pm with 94 Comments »
April 4, 2011 1:45 pm

With the possibility of a looming government shutdown, it’s really worth considering what dug the hole we’re currently in. All we hear about – thanks primarily to the corporate right wing media – is that spending cuts are the only salvation for our country’s woes.

The Republicans seized control in the House with the promise of creating more jobs and solving our fiscal problems. Have they delivered? I’m curious about how the EPA, Planned Parenthood, NPR, Head Start and any of the other programs on the conservative hit list have put our country in such jeopardy. This is a classic bait and switch – identify a problem, promise a cure and then focus on something totally unrelated as the solution.

How about talking about the elephant in the room? We have a revenue problem. Why have two major wars been funded with no financial sacrifice by Americans? Why was an expensive Medicare giveaway to the pharmaceutical industry not funded by tax increases? Why has the gap between the rich and poor – with the middle class in the crosshairs – widened to the point of where it was just before the Great Depression?

How can a company like GE generate over $14 billion in profit and not pay a cent in U.S. taxes? Why have the Republicans blocked legislation that would forbid corporations from moving jobs overseas and then claiming a tax benefit as an added bonus?

Face it: You are subsidizing millionaires and billionaires. How are they thanking you?

Leave a comment Comments → 94
  1. the3rdpigshouse says:

    The only problem with State and Federal budgets are that they have been in the hands of the socialist democrats for far too long! Get rid of the social welfare programs, socialized medical care, and programs that have outlived their usefulness years ago!!

  2. truthbusterguy says:

    This author gets the “kool-aid drinker” of the week award. And it’s only Monday!!!

  3. truthbusterguy says:

    The state has a revenue problem too. They have 4 billion $$$$ more in revenue compared to the last budget but spending continues.

    The get 4 billion, they cut 4 billion, they break even and still whine to the voters. Disgusting.

  4. chris3dog says:

    the3rdpigshouse says…..On top of all that, someones been eating my porridge!

  5. The Federal Budget as written by the repubicons in the House has so many riders that it will actually INCREASE federal spending rather than cutting it.

  6. jtarleton says:

    Socialist Democrats or Fascist Republicans ….the question I ask any of you , is the question I ask often and get very few responses from. That being, if you believe the budget was balanced by Newt and Bill in 2000, What changed between 2000 and 2010. That I feel is the 64,000$ question. Obviously we are taking in less revenue and we are spending more but the question is what are the elements or legislation which brought us to where we are fiscally. Any takers?

  7. nwcolorist says:

    I second your nomination, truthbuster.

    And chris3dog, I think your mixing up your fairy tales.

  8. lovethemountains says:

    As far as the state budget problems…..do you suppose a 3+ million dollar outhouse built near Elbe may be part of the problem? This was a DOT project and of course we know their record of fiscal responibility.

  9. menopaws says:

    TWO WARS and a tax cut—-my economics Professor from college is probably throwing up……….But, hey, cut NPR and Public TV–that makes all those tea party idiots who scream about “socialist Democrats” (like they even know what socialism is……) happy………….You don’t fight TWO WARS without paying for them……….This has nothing to do with socialism—it’s basic bookkeeping–which was never Bush Jr.’s area of expertise……So cut social programs—only idiots think it will make a BIG difference. We are spending about 2 BILLION a month in Iraq AND Afghanistan and the whiners don’t want to pay more taxes to fix it. So, they get thrilled about maybe 30 million and think that will actually make a difference……..Their stupidity would be amusing if it wasn’t so dangerous.

  10. nokoolaide says:

    Three wars now huh?

  11. Menopause, Wars and tax breaks says it all. Huge unregulated spending, deliberate cuts in revenue, and mad borrowing to make up the difference. This County does need to be invaded; our creditors just need to call their loans. Of course they will probably settle for no USA made goods to be produced, and no tax or tariffs on foreign goods.

  12. ps by the fiscally conseratvie republicans for 8 of those 10 years.

    And lets no forget all well paying jobs going overseas.

  13. hortonpeak says:

    Can you all stop throwing crap at each other and have a meaningful discussion? Think not – because that would not be nearly as much fun. Entertaining but meaningless.

  14. ItalianSpring says:

    We may be short on cash but we have enough ignorance to supply the universe. Just ask any lib about the greatness of Imam Obomba.

  15. Rollo_Tomassi says:

    In 2005 the Federal Government spent $2,471,971,000,000
    In 2006 the Federal Government spent $2,655,057,000,000
    In 2007 the Federal Government spent $2,728,702,000,000
    In 2008 the Federal Government spent $2,982,554,000,000
    In 2009 the Federal Government spent $3,517,681,000,000
    (source http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf page 27)

    That’s an spending increase of over 1 Trillion and 100 Billion in just four years. I think the Federal government has a spending problem.

  16. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    Rollo, your comment took the wind from the dem’s sails. Shame of bush too for overspending.

  17. The rest of the story is that a large part of the jump between 2007 and 2009 was due to the Dems bring Bush’s war funding in to the general budget.

  18. “All we hear about – thanks primarily to the corporate right wing media… ”

    Credibility alert – laugh test successful, no real need to read further.

    “The Republicans seized control in the House with the promise of creating more jobs and solving our fiscal problems. Have they delivered?”

    Wow Timm, you think it is possible to control 1/2 the legislative branch, only, and do this… in less than three months? Sounds down right 0bama-ish. But grab your britches, the fun is going to begin tomorrow:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/usa-budget-republican-idUSN0421317220110405

    But hey let’s hear some of your ideas for cutting spending. Oh that’s right, you think we have a revenue problem.

    “We have a revenue problem.”

    LMFAO, I think I’ll use that one next time I can’t pay my credit card bill. (But why do I think the bank will tell me I have a spending problem?)

    “How can a company like GE generate over $14 billion in profit and not pay a cent in U.S. taxes?”

    Oh… I dunno’, why not ask 0bama’s good buddy, GE CEO, and chair of the President’s Council on Jobs and Competiveness, Jeffrey Immelt .

    http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/its-free-blog/2011/apr/04/if-something-legal-does-make-it-right/

    http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110403/EDIT05/304039933/1147/EDIT07

    Then buy a clue.

  19. US Republican budget plan would cut $5.8 trln in 10 yrs
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/usa-budget-cuts-idUSN0429071020110405

    let the Dem crying begin….

  20. 14 Billion in profits.
    GE is a picker when it comes to not paying taxes.

    Bank of America made between 30 and 40 billion in profits and still paid no taxes.

    Here’s your clue – tax loop holes.

    Actually the Republicans working harder to get un-elected than they did to get elected.

    So its HIP HIP HOORAY for the Dems and the Blues.

  21. tarleton asked: “Socialist Democrats or Fascist Republicans ….the question I ask any of you , is the question I ask often and get very few responses from. That being, if you believe the budget was balanced by Newt and Bill in 2000, What changed between 2000 and 2010. That I feel is the 64,000$ question.”

    tarleton: What changed? The expiration of PAYGO. The PAYGO statute was enacted in 1990 under George Bush 1 as a part of a Budget Enforcement Act, and was in effect throught the entire Clinton presidency. It required that new spending or tax cuts not add to the federal deficit. If new spending or tax cuts were to be enacted, PAYGO required that they be offset by other spending decreases or revenue increases.

    PAYGO worked.

    In 2002 however, under GWB and a Republican house and senate, the PAYGO statute was allowed to expire. Shortly thereafter, the Bush 2003 tax cuts and Medicare Part D were enacted, neither of which would have met the then expired, PAYGO requirements. Each year following the expiration of PAYGO, deficits have increased no matter which political party has been in control.

    Both Democrats and Republicans have deficit-spent with gusto since PAYGO expired, but it was the fiscal irresponsibility of Republicans in 2002 that lit the deficit spending fuse.

  22. There are a few who get it. But most of you are content to participate in the partisan sideline hooliganism that passes for political debate in this country. NEITHER Party is innocent, BOTH are culpable.

  23. “We’ve got to show the country that we can get this situation under control and grow the economy, and that’s what we’re doing,” he said. “So whether (Democratic Senate Majority Leader) Harry Reid is willing to pass this bill or Barack Obama is ready to sign it, I don’t know the answer to that question.

    “What I do know is I can’t look my kids and my constituents in the eyes with my conscience being clear and not know that I didn’t do everything I could to try and fix this problem before it got out of control.” Paul Ryan R-Wisconsin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwv5EbxXSmE&feature=player_embedded#at=30

    We have a spending problem…

  24. commoncents says:

    I’m sorry – I consider myself a democrat but I won’t demonize a company that takes advantage of allowable deductions under GAAP. Don’t like it? Remove the barriers… Reduce the corporate tax rate to 20 or 25%, implement incentives to bring back work from overseas, raise the capital gains rate to 35%, and increase the highest personal tax rates to 40 or 45%. If done correctly it will remove the tax burden from the corporations and place it on those earning the money…which is where it belongs. Businesses are just conduits…

  25. The gop is nothing but a socipathic cult for rich whitemen.
    The rank and file gop member is fed a diet of lies, myths, and delusions. Look at what these poor exploited people post in here.

  26. “chris3dog says:
    April 4, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    the3rdpigshouse says…..On top of all that, someones been eating my porridge!”
    ————————————————————————-
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  27. “LMFAO, I think I’ll use that one next time I can’t pay my credit card bill. (But why do I think the bank will tell me I have a spending problem?)”
    —————————————————————————————–
    Well, first of all, the credit card would have a spending limit. The one used by George Bush and the GOP Congress from 2001 to 2007 had no limit. Then when the bill comes due, they get to push it across the table and say “those guys will pay the tab”.

    In business, when your revenue is down, you seek more revenue because cutting back on services will only restrict your ability to create more revenue. Businesses borrow from banks to expand and float capital constantly.

    Don’t the Conservatives always say “run the county like a business”?

  28. Spending is only one side of the equation. By definition, a budget has to consider BOTH Income and Spending.

    Reduction of Spending while reducing Income makes no sense as it just won’t pencil out. The budget cannot be balanced by only looking at one side of the equation.

  29. hansgruber says:

    Rollo_Tomassi says:
    April 4, 2011 at 6:59 pm
    In 2005 the Federal Government spent $2,471,971,000,000
    In 2006 the Federal Government spent $2,655,057,000,000
    In 2007 the Federal Government spent $2,728,702,000,000
    In 2008 the Federal Government spent $2,982,554,000,000
    In 2009 the Federal Government spent $3,517,681,000,000
    (source http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf page 27)

    That’s an spending increase of over 1 Trillion and 100 Billion in just four years. I think the Federal government has a spending problem.

    I agree Rollo

  30. Of course hans – the budget from 2005-2008 didn’t include the Iraqistan wars……

  31. Rollo_Tomassi says:

    beerBoy –

    The numbers sighted from the OMB report are for total expenditures and explicitly include off-budget items – so it does include the two wars.

  32. Rollo-thanks for pointing out its a spending problem NOT a revenue problem. So simple, thank God and Country for men and women like Paul Ryan. Many Republicans(RINO’s) are responsible for this out of control spending as well. Hopefully the TEA party will straighten this great nation out.

  33. You have some valid points Timm. Regrettably your liberal blinders do not allow you to see the obvious.

  34. hansgruber says:

    Table 1.1—SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS, OUTLAYS, AND SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS (–): 1789–2015—Continued
    (in millions of dollars)
    Year
    Total -Budget
    Income Spent Borrowed
    2010 estimate $2,165,119 $3,720,701 $ –1,555,582
    2011 estimate ..$2,567,181 $3,833,861 $–1,266,680 2012 estimate ..$2,926,400 $3,754,852 $ –828,452 2013 estimate ..$3,188,115 $3,915,443 $–727,328 2014 estimate ..$3,455,451 $4,161,230 $ –705,779 2015 estimate ..$3,633,679 $4,385,531 $–751,852
    Page 23 ****$5.832 Trillion added to the deficit
    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf

    Yep…we got a spending & borrowing problem!

    Obama is right on track to BORROW more money than ALL of the previous 43 Presidents COMBINED!
    Obama took office
    Deficit $10.626 Trillion
    Current deficit is $14,251Trillion (Increase of $3.625 Trillion in 26 months)
    Add estimated $5.832 Trillion thru 2015 is $9.457 Trillion with one year remaining.

    And we all know the estimates have allways been more ….Stop the madness

  35. hansgruber says:

    Hope this works a little better to read
    Income Spent Borrowed
    2010 estimate $2,165,119 $3,720,701 $ –1,555,582
    2011 estimate ..$2,567,181 $3,833,861 $–1,266,680
    2012 estimate ..$2,926,400 $3,754,852 $ –828,452
    2013 estimate ..$3,188,115 $3,915,443 $–727,328
    2014 estimate ..$3,455,451 $4,161,230 $ –705,779
    2015 estimate ..$3,633,679 $4,385,531 $–751,852
    Page 23 ****$5.832 Trillion added to the deficit

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2011/04/04/deficit-problem/#ixzz1IfHGcOEJ

  36. Roncella says:

    Thanks, to the Tea Party and some brave Republicans like Ryan and a few blue dog Democrats the Country made be saved before President Obama and Reid and Pelosi and other liberal democrats and rino republicans destory Americas future entirely.

  37. bB – yes both parties have spent and cut taxes and other revenue. And the only way we can get out of this mess is through thoughtful, longer term spend reductions, and by tapping new sources of revenue by closing tax loopholes and returning to the Reagan’s 38% top tax bracket.

    X60 – when they say ‘run the country like a business’ they mean obscenely high wages, Rolls Royce benefits, and no taxes for the rich and big business, sub-minimum wages no benefits for the working classes, and to do away with the middle class.

    Hans, ‘borrow more that all others combined’ makes a nice talking point, but is not a truthful one. Also see my comment to bB above.

    Tmell and nanook, you conservative blindness prevents you from seeing that the real solution to our problem requires a controlled reduction in spending AND an increase in revenue.

    During the Health Care debate, the right-wingers were yelling and screaming about how the bill would create Death Panels and kill Grandma by denying coverage. Now the right-wing wants to throw everyone over 65 under the bus by eliminating Medicare and Medicaid. What’s next, use the elderly to make Soylent Green?

  38. “beerBoy says:
    April 5, 2011 at 8:34 am
    Of course hans – the budget from 2005-2008 didn’t include the Iraqistan wars…… ”
    ———————————————————————————
    Your facts are getting in the way of the cheerleading…..

  39. If the TEA Party really wants to cut spending, when will they cut military spending?

    $3 million for NPR and a few million for Planned Parenthood won’t balance any budget.

    Leave the parsley on the plate and cut into the meat and potatoes.

  40. I’d love to know how the Conservatives plan on serving a growing country with the same money as they did a few years ago.

    All this talk about “family budgets” – do you have the same budget for a 5 member family as you did for a 3 member family?

  41. “If the TEA Party really wants to cut spending, when will they cut military spending?”

    178 Billion dollars of Secretary Gates approved budget cuts… they heard your griping…

  42. “I’d love to know how the Conservatives plan on serving a growing country with the same money as they did a few years ago.”

    Cut the spending… leave more money in your and my pocket… grow the economy by getting government out of our ways…

    This way you and I can build and grow our respective lives… while contributing via taxes and growth to the colective whole that is this great country.

  43. “All this talk about “family budgets” – do you have the same budget for a 5 member family as you did for a 3 member family?”

    YOu shouldn’t grow a family if you can from a 3 member family if that is all you can afford to a 5 member family you can’t… unless you plan for it and lay the foundation for current fiscal responsibility, cut unneccessary spending and develop a plan for revenue growth by providing a product or service that you and I would want to purchase from that “family”

  44. theogsters says:

    A great letter, Timm, we have a relatively small “spending problem” and a gigantic “revenue shortfall”. And the example you choose, GE, it’s a good one. According to “60-Minutes” they moved their headquarters to Ireland in order to avoid a 35 percent corporate tax in the US. Ireland’s rate is 12.5 percent. And, in the same report, 60-Minutes pointed out that when corporations move their headquarters they usually move the top staff as well; over 100,000 well-paid corporate jobs have moved to Europe. So, ironically, if we reduced corporate tax rates to be competitive with Europe we just might recapture that revenue. Problem is, I don’t think congress is that smart.

  45. DOD spending – $1.030–$1.415 trillion

    Gates cut 178 Billion dollars

    My online calculator doesn’t go to trillions, but we are back to cutting the parsley instead of the meat and potatoes.

  46. “YOu shouldn’t grow a family if you can from a 3 member family if that is all you can afford to a 5 member family you can’t…”
    ————————————————————————-
    Thus we cut funding to Planned Parenthood. LMAO

    Read the name, it will tell you the business they provide.

    Being a “surprise baby” (before birth control pills) my parents didn’t have a choice (before Roe V Wade) so Dad had to make more money.

    In your utopian world of “everything is how you plan it”, I realize this would never happen, but it does.

  47. Typical rant – challenge cuts to the defense department, provide an amout of cuts and it’s ether too much or too little… typical dribble.

    I could care less if Gates said I’ll start by cutting $100.00 from the defense budget… I would thank him, return the money to the taxpayer and ask if he could more next time… the trend will be out friend…

    do you not realize that a Secretary of Defense is actually offering to cut any money from the “sacred” defense budget and comes up with a figure that is half of what the Senate Dems are griping about for a year (17.8 billion vs 30 Billion for a yearly figure)

    Jeeze dude… gripe, gripe, gripe…. He is doing a good thing, serving the country by doing and taking a lot of crap for it in that funny shaped building.

  48. “xx98411 says:
    April 5, 2011 at 10:47 am
    Typical rant – challenge cuts to the defense department, provide an amout of cuts and it’s ether too much or too little… typical dribble.
    —————————————————————————

    Typical excuse making. Our defense spending exceeds all the defense spending combine of the rest of the world and when challenged to be reasonable about expenditures, it’s call dribble.

    If it was the salary of a government worker, it would be the reason for the end of mankind

  49. Again with the typical rant… OK, here goes…

    Our defense spending exceeds all the defense spending combine of the rest of the world…
    Because we have the largest military, have neat military toys and actually pay our military well… duh!

    and when challenged to be reasonable about expenditures, it’s call dribble.
    Gates has submitted plans to cut the defense budget… considering the past, by alot… the sacred cow is being cut… what more do you want???

  50. That sacred cow is mighty obese.

  51. “That sacred cow is mighty obese.”

    Not enough for you… try to catch Gates before he leaves or talk to Obama… go for it.

  52. menopaws says:

    Every time I hear some tea party type rag about the deficit, I want to scream “Obama put the Wars on the books!!!!” Honesty doesn’t appear to count with this crowd…….Bush NEVER included it’s costs on the books and……….gave all the banks a free ride from regulation……..People seem to conveniently forget that the banks CRASHED on his watch—-BEFORE the election. TARP was a Republican baby—Obama didn’t have a whole lot of options when he walked into the White House………….All these people who refuse to remember how all this happened need to get their meds checked. We would be standing in soup lines if the government under both Bush and Obama had not stepped in……….Get a clue people……..the free ride is over…….

  53. xx:

    You can dance around the subject all you’d like, but those of us with rational minds know that the Republicans’ idea of “cutting the budget” is eliminating that which they oppose and has nothing to do with saving money.

    You want a number on defense? How about half? That would still make the US #1 in the world in spending and still 3 times as much as #2 – China.

    Considering that being #1 didn’t do squat for us on 9/11/01, in terms of defending the country versus 22 terrorists, I’m certain that half as much would probably get no worse results.

  54. You can dance around the subject all you’d like, but those of us with rational minds know that the Republicans’ idea of “cutting the budget” is eliminating that which they oppose and has nothing to do with saving money.

    What dance, you haven’t played a tune anyone can keep a beat to. Dude you not realize that by eliminating a program, regardless of reason, is one less program that is budgeted for and by default saves money. How’s that for being “rational”

    You want a number on defense? How about half? That would still make the US #1 in the world in spending and still 3 times as much as #2 – China.

    As I said before to whoever I was talking to… you need to talk to Robert Gates, you gotta catch him before he leaves. Obama may make some time for you. But I really do think olde Bob is on to something with the proposed cuts. Kudos to the man.

    Considering that being #1 didn’t do squat for us on 9/11/01, in terms of defending the country versus 22 terrorists, I’m certain that half as much would probably get no worse results.

    You really do hate this country and being an American don’t you? You are truly a class act.

  55. Speaking of cutting…

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/42432883

    snip… snip… snip…

  56. Tax the hell out of the rich…so the idiot republicans can spend the rest of their lives mad that the rich pay their fair share. Remember, small things amuse small minds.

  57. Maybe they will shut up about abortion and gay marriage…lololol

  58. Xx – ‘getting the government out of our ways’ so Wall Street and the Credit/Lending Companies can try to bust the economy worse that they did back in 2008?

    X60, being number one didn’t help us in Viet Nam, and hasn’t helped us in Afghanistan or Iraq.

  59. “xx – ‘getting the government out of our ways’ so Wall Street and the Credit/Lending Companies can try to bust the economy worse that they did back in 2008?”

    I’m sorry xring but I can’t seem to drop my IQ far enough to respond to this dribble….

  60. Sue-not sure how you can refer to anyone else as small-minded….other than you would arguably be considered an expert on the subject. FYI-the “rich” do pay their fair share, they pay ridiculous amounts. Obama thinks I’m rich. LMAO-I’m just working to take care of my family, put my kids through college without a hundred grand apiece in student loans when they get out. I pay through the nose on taxes already, its ridiculous. Meanwhile, the earned income credit is giving refunds to people of money they DIDN’T EVEN PAY IN. It’s one thing to not have a family making25, 30 or 40k a year pay anything in Federal income taxes, but to pay people an excess refund of money not contributed? It’s just another welfare. And there are idiots out there that think 35% isn’t a high enough tax bracket? And that my contribution to social security shouldn’t stop at 106,000.00 a year. I’ll never see a dime of social security-which is fine, I fund my own 401k. Grow up, and start contributing!!

  61. Due to the overwhelming ignorance of liberals, I obviously am not stating that the social security tax is 106,000.00 a year, just that the social security tax ends right around 106,000.00 in taxable income(not sure exactly what they have jacked it up to this year, was at 80 or 90 just a couple of years ago)

  62. Xx –You are a perfect example of the old saw ‘ He who does not know history is condemned to repeat it.’
    TMell

    ‘the rich pay ridiculous amounts’ – ridiculously low, an exceeded by the non-payment of Corporations.

    And the problem is not the tax rate but the number of loop holes that allow the big boys to avoid paying any tax.

    One may find ignorance on the left, but it is endemic to the right wing.

  63. olbluedoc says:

    “I’m sorry xring but I can’t seem to drop my IQ far enough to respond to this dribble.”

    Great Response from someone who obviously doesn’t have an answer. I just don’t understand how anyone could support a system that abuses people. And our economy. And I DON’T HATE MY COUNTRY. I just want to live in a society that doesn’t take advantage of those less fortunate and rewards the wealthy, especially the scum who obtain wealth on the backs of the poor and middle class.

  64. xring – history… no, we just simply disagree about today’s solutions

    olbluedoc – response… answer… no, I have and did provide some solutions, I would say we just disagree but you haven’t provided any solutions…

  65. xx – but we have. Controlled long term cuts, and increased revenue by closing tax loop holes.

  66. xring – I was talking to olbluedoc but if that is your position then great… proposed cuts include both short and longer term cuts, as well as modifications to programs to ensure their viability and following up on the Debt Commision with the GOP plan to close tax loopholes.

    see that wasn’t hard… respectful response begets a respectful response… on and on it can go…

  67. Tmell… im an educated liberal woman.You are a gopcult member. You watch Fox News. enough said.

  68. xx – Would that be the commission that wants to a 70% cut in spending targeted mainly at gutting Social Security, Medicare and other social benefits, and Medicaid, and a 30% increase in revenues?

    And wold:

    • Roll discretionary spending back to FY2010 levels for FY2012, requires 1% cut in discretionary budget authority every year from FY2013 though 2015;budget authority every year from FY2013 though 2015;

    • Fully offset the cost of the “Doc Fix” by asking doctors and other health providers, lawyers, and individuals to take responsibility for slowing health care cost growth;

    • Reduce farm subsidies by3 billion per year by reducing direct payments and other subsidies;

    • Achieve100 billion in Illustrative Defense Cuts;

    • Index retirement age for Social security to increases in longevity.

    • Give retirees the choice of collecting half their benefits early and the other half at a later age to minimize impact of actuarial reduction and support phased retirement options;

    • Reduce corporate tax rate to 26% and permanently extend the research credit; [IMO the rate is not the problem. we need to close tax loopholes];

    • Gradually increase gas tax to fund transportation spending.

  69. xring – I would go with the 70% cut in spending first, Congress (Dems and GOP) need to prove to the American people that they can live within what is given to them.

    In the meantime, We, the People, need to make a decision of what we want government to do. The smaller the government, the smaller the revenue need. The larger…. well you have what we have and are heading to right now.

    By the way the deal with reducing both the personal and corporate tax rate is a elimination and also reduction in the tax deductions available to each. (one man’s deduction is another man’s loophole)

  70. ididwhat……and you get on my case because I have posted as beerBoy, arts, and beerBoy2……

    Well…..at least there is some continuity to your various names so I can know who I am talking to – unlike several(?) folks here on the left and right who change names like others change socks. Some folks change socks, others change sock puppets.

    Isn’t it time for idontknow on third?…….”Abbott, Abbott!”

  71. The only solution is to rebalance the economy, which means the failed trickle down supply side nonsense of the last 30 years HAS to come to an end.
    The only way to do that is to tax the B-jeebers out of the upper ‘income’ and cap gains, that way that money is not counted as ‘income’ but rather gets reinvested into the economy.

    It also means an over hual of the tax code, both personal and corporate and closing a lot of the old loop holes.
    Taxing churchs and PACS as well as these new 531’s should be looked at as well.
    Another thing that needs some serious consideration is removing the tax credit for dependants, it’s not fair for single people to subsidize large families with higher taxes and also pay again with property taxes.
    You want kids? You pay for them.

    Cuts? Yes we should have cuts as well, cut the corporations off and do it yesterday.
    Anyone who thinks we can fix our problems with cuts in spending and taxes hasn’t been paying attention to how we got to where we are now.

  72. Roncella says:

    Sue1234, Without knowing you, most who post here would have known you are a liberal. Its Very Obvious.

    By the way just having an education does not automatically make you any smarter or more intelligent than anyone else.

  73. “Anyone who thinks we can fix our problems with cuts in spending and taxes hasn’t been paying attention to how we got to where we are now.”

    cuts in spending… that is an important part of the equation.

    “…cuts in taxes…” if you mean tax rate cut then that is a start as that typically results in an increase in tax revenue as the econmy expands.

    I am saying that before the government comes and asks me for more money they do what we have sent them to the capitol to do and focus on the essential government services… pay for those first. Determine, with the approval of the govern, what other services government can do and present a plan for those services before you ask… no take from us the money to pay for it.

    You wanna tax increase… cut the spending first.

  74. Tax cuts have never resulted in more tax revenue, to say it does is to tell a lie.

    We have been living that lie for the last 30 years, look where it and the other group of lies known as ‘supply side econimics’ has gotten us.
    How can anyone make the case that doing more of the same would solve a problem it caused!!??

  75. “Tax cuts have never resulted in more tax revenue, to say it does is to tell a lie.”

    Oh, stop with the slinging… go look at the CBO.gov as well as other sites for information on the fact that tax revenues increase after a tax rate cut… go look, give it a shot.

    First Greece… now ask Portugal how that social cradle to grave stuff is working out for them… bailout, bailout, bailout.

  76. xtp – I also said cuts in spending dude… any comment on that?

  77. Here is an example of your ‘small government’ courtesy of you Republican House where a bill was introduced on Monday that would bar the City of Washington DC from using its tax moneys to pay for abortions for low income women.

    BTW, I did not see anything about tax loopholes in the Commission’s report or in the proposed 2012 budget.

    Anyone who does not see the need for a balanced approach (spending cuts and increased revenues) is not dealing with a full deck.

    IF cutting just taxes to create jobs worked, the US would have 110% employment.

  78. xring – tax money for abortions… sorry you play… you pay.

    I saw that in a summary and from an interview of Paul Ryan.

    when you lower the tax rate and set the conditions for economic expansion the tax revenue increases to Uncle Sam

    If stimulating the economy via government spending created jobs the US would have 110% employment. Cutting taxes and keeping them low help to create the conditions for economic growth.

  79. “Cutting taxes and keeping them low help to create the conditions for economic growth.”

    This is a standard conservative talking point, but in actuality, it’s a myth which has been propagated on an unwary public by who else, than “Propagandists”. The evidence suggest that tax cuts do not increase revenues, but instead, they increase government deficits and lower revenues. If what you say were true, the economy would have been cooking after the tax cuts of 2001,02, and 03, but instead tax revenues went down and deficits went up for several years thereafter. Conversely, government revenue and the economy should have faltered after the 1993 tax increases, but the opposite happened.

    Going back farther, after Reagans tax cut in 1981 government revenue went down. To remedy the increasing defict and decreased revenues, another tax act was passed in1982 which back-tracked the 1981 tax cuts. Revenues then went up. In 1984, a Deficit Reduction Act was passed increasing taxes which also had a positive effect on revenue and the economy.

    There are some interesting graphs and information to support this: http://www.econdataus.com/taxcuts.html

  80. According to the CBO and IRS data, tax revenues did go up after the 1981/82 tax cuts and continued to go up for almost 15 years. Aftert the tax cut of 2001/02 tax revenues did go up until we hit the wall in 2008.

    Deficits are the result of too much spending. If the government runs a deficit it is almost always the result of too much spending. During the Bush years we railed against the deficits… The tax revenue did go up… our expenses also went up (the two wars, etc..) more than our revenues hence the deficit.

    If we are trying to make the claim for increasing taxes to pay for our deficits and debts… good luck.. I need to hear from the DC/Olympia trogodytes is that they are reducing spending…. when that occurs and indeed a legitimate gap still exist… then come to me for more money… until then… here is some lint from my pockets.

    PS – the source data from your links does not exist (www.gpoaccess.gov)

  81. 30 years of supply side voodoo tax-cutting has led us to where we are. It doesn’t work.

    Repeating your faith-based economic theory doesn’t make it true. Your use of an impossible figure (110% employment) as a way of dismissing other approaches (which haven’t really been tried – note the 30 years of supply side that has been the rule since St. Ronnie mucked it up) demonstrates how you really aren’t interested (or can’t) engage in a reality based discussion about this issue.

  82. BB – if you are talking to me and the following:

    If stimulating the economy via government spending created jobs the US would have 110% employment.

    I was making fun of the logic of xring… his statment was just as rediculous as my statement. Sorry you didn’t see that.

  83. The issue is not soley tax cutting. We have to have other sound economic policies to compliment tax policy.

    Please explain how taking money from your pocket via increase taxes helps the economy as a whole. Please not again with the tired argument about roads for example, they have responsibility to provide services in a cost effective manner.

    When you give up that money via taxes, are you really satisfied that the government (at all levels) is spending the money responsibly?

    If we run a deficit, is it not the clowns down in Olympia/DC that are responsible for spending too much of our money?

  84. Xx
    Federal funds for abortion are a no-no. State and local funding is up to the State or Local government.

    You could set the tax rate a zero and get the same amount as at 100 unless we close the tax loopholes and take other steps to prevent American jobs from being outsourced.

    (GE $14 billion in profits, paid no US taxes due to loophole; Bank of America over $30 billion in profits, paid no US taxes due to loopholes).

    Reagan lowed the 81/82 tax rates, and then raised taxes 11 times in the next 6 years. (Or have you forgotten Bush I’s ‘read my lips – NO new taxes’ or his ‘it it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck).

    We need a balance approach to reducing the deficit – spending cuts and more revenue.

    The differences are where/what/how much is cu, and how to increase revenue.

    And we need to overhaul the tax system.

  85. crap xring – in this case I think we are arguing from the same side of the table though we are at different ends…

    One more time… cut spending first, time passes, then ask me to raise taxes… I submit you probably won’t have to.

    yes, overhaul the tax system, cut most if not all deductions (personal side of the house), reduce the tax rate to the lowest possible.

    GE / BoA – yes they paid little to no taxes. I’d have to analyze the return but the belief is that it is a result of business losses over the last two years (at least that is what the GE CEO said and I have no reason to disbelieve him at this point)

    One more time – one mans loophole is another mans legitimate tax deduction… don’t like it change the tax system.

  86. A tax deduction is authorized by the tax code.

    A tax loophole is an exploitation of a tax code.

  87. “A tax loophole is an exploitation of a tax code.”

    The IRS as well as the US Justice Department are very clear about what is legal vs illegal interpreations of the tax code. You can paly word games all you want… let me help by saying… I will take every deduction authorized by the tax code. All persons or corporations should take every tax deduction that is legal.

    A “tax loophole” is nothing more than a media (or whoever) term to describe something they don’t like. The line is clear here. It is either legal or illegal.

    In the words of my Dome Accounting Ledger…

    “to avoid taxes is legal… to evade taxes is illegal”

    To save you a nauseating response, if GE’s (BP, GM, Apple, etc..) tax deductions are illegal then we will know about it… at this point they are not.

    Don’t like it… talk to your Congressman

  88. xx98 I have a question so simple that a conservative can answer it,
    ‘Has tax cuts stimulated our current economy’?

    Simple yes or no question that even a teapartyer could answer.
    What say you xx98?

  89. xx
    Tax loopholes take advantage of flaws in the wording of the tax code so a technically legal, but violate the intent of the code.

    This exemplifies a tax loophole — the original intent is not illegal, but the definition can be exploited for personal gain

    Several years ago, a substantial tax break was offered to small companies who invested in SUVs and other heavy vehicles for their transportation fleets.

    Because the tax law allowed for 50% personal use, small business could upgrade their own personal vehicles to SUVs and still receive a tax credit.

    Other examples include:
    1. Using home equity lines of credit for personal expenses such as paying credit cards or buying a car, boat, or other large items so that the interest may be deductible.

    2. Added use of a vacation home (which is limited to 14 days per year ‘vacation’ excluding time spent on repairs and maintenance – but if a 1 day job just happens to take 3 or 4 days those extras days are still counted as maintenance and not vacation days)

    3. Pocketing Vacation home Cash such as from renting it out for more than 14 days.

    4. Converting property settlements and child support into deductible alimony.

  90. ‘Has tax cuts stimulated our current economy’?

    BS setup question, you know and I know it…

    The answer is tax cuts contribute to the stimulation of our economy. We need other components such as sound fiscal policy, tax policy, etc…

  91. xring – unintentional omission or obsurity in the law… OK and the problem is???

    Simple solution, simplify the tax code to the point that deduction are unneccessary, reduce the tax rate to a level that provides the necessary revenue, demand that your Congressman stop using the tax code as a means of chosing winners and losers in the business world.

    Your examples are nice… so what… call your Congressman and demand that the tax code be simplified, reduce the tax rate and demand a super majority to raise the tax rate.

  92. PS – SUV tax stuff… great law if you took advantage of it. I wasn’t a small business at the time but I would have take advantage of the law if I could have.

    Like I said before one businessmans tax advantage while another mans tax loophole.

  93. I see that xx98 can’t answer a very simple question because to do so, would if answered honestly force her to admit that her idioligy and ranting is completly wrong.
    Typical rightwinger.

  94. I did answer the question… it’s just not the answer nor the form of answer you want… sorry…

*
We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0