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LIBYA: President right to confront bully

Letter by Evelyn Irene Walker, Olalla on March 29, 2011 at 1:24 pm with 52 Comments »
March 29, 2011 1:24 pm

Did the president do the right thing by sending help to Libya?

Yes. Remember how we ignored Hitler killing the Jews? When someone is a bully, there is no wrong time to step in. The sooner the better.

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Leave a comment Comments → 52
  1. geeterpontiac says:

    Hmmm, I wonder if Evelyn realizes those folks Obama stepped in to confront would on a collective basis like nothing better than to kill every Jew on the planet.

    Oh well,,,

  2. truthbusterguy says:

    Let’s see how you feel 6 months from now and after billions are spent. It’s on the news now that rebels are running for cover.
    http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/03/29/libyan-rebels-retreat-in-face-of-regimes-firepower/

    Here is the truth from the TBG. If we don’t have the will to win a war, melt sand, kill them all, dare to be bold and take no prisoners plus stand up to world socialist criticism, we should not get engaged.

    There is a reason we have not won a war since WWII. We have become a country of cowards and driven by polls and focus groups. We can’t win because we don’t allow our forces to win. So save the money and blood.

  3. omega629 says:

    Ya.. war is never the answer… except if the question is what stopped the killing of the jews and Slavey, and Japan. Then answer would be war.

  4. Roncella says:

    truthbusterguy, Your short post makes so much sense but again liberals/and some dems. cannot use reason or logic to understand some of the unrest and fighting going on in so many countries and just how long these can last and how much these wars will cost.

    When Bush was still President thats all we heard from dems/lame stream media was how much the wars were costing, daily, weekly, monthy, yearly, now, Not a word about that with our New War with libya.

    .

    Support for everything and anything President Obama says and does along with the lame stream Media just goes on and on.

    Why don’t the muslim countries pay for the war in libya and Afg. and everywhere else, they are flush with Millions of dollars. Why is the United States which is Broke paying for all the conflicts and wars ???

  5. As Sun Tzu wrote, only a Fool stands and fights a battle they cannot win. The Wise and determined withdraw to seek more favorable conditions.

    Interesting thing about rebels: They seldom, if ever, just go away. They may become scarce and hard to find, but just wait awhile and they will be back, and back and back until they finally win.

  6. Fibonacci says:

    Roncella
    So you were AGAINST Bush’s wars? Also, we are not actually at war with Lybia, so it is not the same as your hero’s two wars. By the way, you used “lame stream media” twice in your post. I know you think that it is very clever, it is getting old. Find something else you think makes you sound clever.

  7. whatIdid says:

    At this point I’m giving the prez the benefit of doubt… I just find it amazing how often he (and those in the “lame stream media”) make hypocrites of themselves by doing the very thing they criticized someone else for… it’s kooky.

  8. xring – who are the rebels?

  9. “Also, we are not actually at war with Lybia….”

    So lobbing a hundred plus cruise missles, launching a few fighter jets from a big friggin’ aircraft carrier, sending a stealth bomber from Missouri (24+ hours round trip with a few tanker fill ups), blowing up a few tanks, shooting down an airplane, dead people….

    hmmm, what is it?

  10. Evelyn, Sadam Hussein was a bully, did you support Bush when we went into Iraq? The leader of North Korea is a bully, the leader of Iran is a bully, where do we stop?

  11. gp -those folks Obama stepped in to confront would on a collective basis like nothing better than to kill every Jew on the planet.

    Please clarify what seems like a very broad stereotype about a huge group of people.

    Are you talking about Moamar Gaddafi? If so, why did Israel send mercenaries to support him?

  12. xx98 –

    who are the rebels – they would be the ones who are trying to oust Gaddafi.

    what is it – an Operations Other Than War – conducted under the power of the President as set forth in the War Powers Act.

    Frosty – Sadam had nothing to do with 9/11, and had no WMD’s (having used the last of his supply of gas on his own people) so there was no reason to invade, EXCEPT Iraq has lots and lots of oil.

  13. OK xring – who are the rebels?

    Their are reports from a US Admiral as well as the Secretary of State that Al Queuda may be involved with the rebels, why do we start this action considering that this may be a possibility?

  14. xRoll_On says:

    So xring, if it was all about the oil in Iraq, WHERE THE HELL IS THAT OIL? I just spent $60 to fill up my 16 gallon tank. Where is the oil????

  15. xring – since you refer to the War Powers Act… did Obama miss this part of the War Powers Act.

    “Section 2(c) states the policy that the powers of the President as Commander in Chief to introduce U.S. armed forces into situations of hostilities or imminent hostilities “are exercised only pursuant to —
    (1) a declaration of war,
    (2) specific statutory authorization, or
    (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.”

    1 – Their was no declaration of war
    2 – He did not have a specific authorization
    3 – nobody attacked us…

  16. ItalianSpring says:

    Look at the “NO BLOOD FOR OIL” libs defend their chosen one who is engaged in a war for European oil interests, and probably the Chinese, South Americans, and other countries that are envious of our way of life (less so now with obombunism). Everything is proceeding exactly as I have forseen and the libs again are proven to be hypocrits.

  17. whatIdid says:

    The last 3 posts have nicely summed it up.

  18. Roncella

    http://nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/costs-of-libya-operation-already-piling-up-20110321

    Costs of Libya Operation Already Piling Up

    With U.N. coalition forces bombarding Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi from the sea and air, the United States’ part in the operation could ultimately hit several billion dollars — and require the Pentagon to request emergency funding from Congress to pay for it.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-28-libyacost28_ST_N.htm

    Since ’90s, cost of Libya operation 2nd only to wars

    Not since similar no-fly zones were employed in Iraq and the Balkans during the 1990s has the Pentagon committed such expensive resources outside a war zone as it has in Libya.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/20110321/pl_yblog_exclusive/costs-of-libya-operation-already-piling-up

    Costs of Libya operation already piling up

    With U.S. and coalition forces bombarding Libya leader Muammer al-Qaddafi’s forces from the sea and air, the cost for the first day alone of the operation was well over $100 million with the total price tag expected to grow much higher the longer the strikes continue, analysts said

  19. Xx – may be a possibility – The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    rR_O – where is the oil – You’ll have to ask the Oil Companies and Wall Street Commodities Traders.

    xx98 – maybe you missed Section 3.
    The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations.

    Also there is Senate Resolution 85 – Senate Adopts Libya Resolution

    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM191_libya.html

    What – last three posts – sums up that as far as the neocons are concerned Mr Obama was wrong for committing US Forces and would have been wrong for not commenting US Forces.

  20. geeterpontiac says:

    bB,

    The Muslim world, particularly in the Middle East is vehemently anti Israel, anti-Jew, and have expressed an infinite number of times their desire to wipe Israel off the map. Their children are taught as a normative part of their education that Jews are degenerate wicked people who should be treated as inferiors at best, or exterminated at worst. And when I say collectively, I mean as a group. (Meaning the majority) Are there exceptions? Sure, but they are exactly that, exceptions and have little if any influence.

    I know nothing about Israel sending mercenaries to support Gadhafi. It sounds much like propaganda to me. But, if Israel or the United States were given a choice between Gadhafi and what will likely emerge to fill the void if he is deposed, we would be wise to choose Gadhafi because although he a vile, despicable dictator, who passionately hates Israel and America, he is actually a secularist Arab who has paid lip service to religious extremists in order to remain in power. He is ruthless pragmatist and is no worse and probably better than what will emerge if he is gone, and that is Islamic fundamentalism and the Islamic Brotherhood taking over the country.

    We already see that happening in Egypt.

  21. I posted this on another thread, above, but this youtube clip explains perfectly the (lack of) rationale we are now getting from the left, on the subject of the Libyan intervention versus Operation Iraqi Freedom. Hypocrisy illustrated, this tube totally nails it – says it all.

    Enjoy (especially you libs):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec

  22. gp – even if I accept your premise that the majority of Arab Muslims wish to wipe Israel off the map, your original statement says that they would like to kill every Jew on the planet. Clearly an unsupported, paranoid hyperbole – even if we accept your first paranoid hyperbole.

    Take, for example, Iran the state where the President’s mistranslated words (by an Israeli propaganda organization) are most often cited as evidence that the entire Arab community wants to “wipe Israel off the map”. They have an old and, apparently contented Jewish community that became offended when Israeli’s offered them the invitation to renounce their Iranian citizenship and become Israelis.

    Regarding the claim that an Israeli newspaper confirmed that Israel had sent 50,000 mercs to defend Gaddafi. I see a lot of claims based upon the same statement but haven’t found anything confirming it so I must conclude that it is false and apologize for my part in perpetuating this lie.

    However, there have been credible sources about Israel’s intent to massively expand into the West Bank so it seems that the only people that are being wiped off the map are the Palestinians.
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-planning-mass-expansion-of-west-bank-settlement-bloc-1.271055

  23. xring – I am a little floored here. You provide a section 3 which states one of the side issues I have… “introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances…”

    You realize the military folk were swabbing decks, plyaing video games, hanging out at the PX, sweatin’ to the oldies in the gym, etc… before WE introduced them into hostilities. They are there because we sent them there…. nothing came to us… which is a requirement of the War Powers Act…. see section 2.

    “Section 2(c) states the policy that the powers of the President as Commander in Chief to introduce U.S. armed forces into situations of hostilities or imminent hostilities “are exercised only pursuant to —
    (1) a declaration of war,
    (2) specific statutory authorization, or
    (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.”

    1 – Their was no declaration of war
    2 – He did not have a specific authorization
    3 – nobody attacked us…

  24. whatIdid says:

    Beautifully summated once again xx98.

  25. Thank you WhatIDid… the YouTube video was too funny. I spit out my coffee when whe said “winning” :)

    Oh yeah, xring – let me save a little time and expand on the exceptions to the War Powers Act. Also let me ask, does this exception have any bearing on what is happening now in Libya?

    1 – No declaration, heck we are going to great pains not to use the “W” word, shhh.

    2 – When they say specific authorization, can we please, pretty please, agree that we are not talking about the United Nations… we are talking about the Congress of the United States of America (est. 7/4/1776)

    3 – Nobody attcked us physically using any method that would bring about mass casualties via normal stuff like bullets and bombs (airplanes). I would also add fiscal attack (as we are engaged in with China but I digress). Since we are a modern folk, we can add cyber activity also that is crippling to the US. (Unflattering Facebook pages and YouTube videos don’t count).

  26. xring – when you lose John Stewart… well… in the words of a great american…. “This war is lost.”

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-29-2011/america-at-not-war—obama-defends-military-action-in-libya

    enjoy ;)

  27. The Marines and the Navy, the Joint Chiefs, and most of the Pentigon Pashas
    have no problem following the President’s Orders.

    As I posted elsewhere: Are there any retired Flag Officers speaking out agaist the Lybian Operation?

    If even one could be found, FOX Entertainment would be running the story 24/7 with film at 11.

  28. If it blows up like a war and kills civilians like a war, it’s probably a war.

    What we are doing in that snake-pit region of the world is beyond me. They all want to decimate each other based on thousand-year old tribal conflicts, let ‘em.

    We should be dropping nothing but sunflower seeds over there.

  29. geeterpontiac says:

    bB,
    When I said Muslims would like to kill every Jew on the planet, I was speaking figuratively to emphasis the degree of hatred and animosity most of the Muslim community feels toward Jews. If the Jews were wiped off the earth, the Muslim community would shed no tears and the majority would celebrate. That’s reality.

    The Palestinian question? I’ve been down this road with you before and I’m not going to play the game again.

    If you will recall, in the past you have used sources (“Pappé) that were in my opinion, highly questionable and when I tracked them down, I found they were indeed extremely biased at best, or simply dishonest at worst. In one case if you may recall, I found the source openly admitted to not knowing what the truth was, and felt the truth and facts were secondary to achieving a political goal at the expense of both if necessary.

    Essentially, the end justifies the means and facts don’t matter.

    When I pointed that out to you, you essentially said it was unimportant. You know, it’s hard to dialogue with a person who doesn’t think facts are important. The truth may be important to you, but I am uncertain that you and I would define the word the same way.

    To illustrate, I went back into my files and found this from you. Granted, it is an exert but I assure you it is not taken out of context. If there is any question of that, I will be happy to furnish the full dialogue here and you can review it to ensure I have not taken liberty with context.

    “beerBoy wrote on 08/23/2010 05:35:49 AM:”

    “The quotes of Pappe seem rather honest – he admits that he isn’t objective. The pretense of any historian that he can be objective is a lie. You know Pappe’s bias and can read him accordingly.”

    Below is the quote your comment above was in reply to.

    “Pappé has long acknowledged that he is not objective and cares little about factual accuracy.”
    “Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts. Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers. (Ibid)”

    “There is no historian in the world who is objective. I am not as interested in what happened as in how people see what’s happened. (“An Interview of Ilan Pappé,” Baudouin Loos, Le Soir [Bruxelles],Nov. 29, 1999”)

    As far as the Palestinians go, I support the Israel settlements. It’s past time someone did something useful with the land. The Arab nations in the area use the Palestinians in much the same way Democrats use minorities in this country. And that is for their own political purposes. They don’t give a rip about really helping them. The Palestinians could and deserve to be a part of the reclamation of that land. But, as long as they are viewed as a group to be manipulated by the Arab nations in the area, no integration is going to occur.

    To be honest, I have enjoyed many of our discussions in the past, but I don’t have the time or energy to chase sources down as I used to and I am not sure we interpret the meaning of words such as truth or facts the same way.

    I hope we do, but I am not sure.

  30. Okay XX, how do you spin Senate Resolution 85?
    hhtp://www.politico.com/static/PPM191_libya.html

  31. “The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,”
    Senator Barack Obama

    Those were his words and one could assume, his beliefs on how he would govern.

    From the War Powers Resolution.

    “Section 2(c) states the policy that the powers of the President as Commander in Chief to introduce U.S. armed forces into situations of hostilities or imminent hostilities “are exercised only pursuant to —
    (1) a declaration of war,
    (2) specific statutory authorization, or
    (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.”

    1 – Their was no declaration of war
    2 – He did not have a specific authorization
    3 – nobody attacked us…

    Senate Resolution “urges the United Nations Security Council” to a “possible” act but does not authorize the President as is required.

    No spin… he did not previously make a case for action in Libya and even said that in an interview referring directly to Rwanda and Dafur. The same question applies today though the countries have changed specifically Syria and Baharain.

    His speech on Monday still left more questions than answers… especially amongst those who are supports of the President.

  32. gp – so your statement is clearly speculative, based solely in your distaste for Arab Muslims and your zionist sympathies.

  33. Tell me…..do you agree with Rabbi Yaacov Perrin -“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail”?

  34. “figuratively” of course……

  35. Xx,
    ‘getting put on a bs list is a Rom Emmanuel thingy’ – Great Sarcasm. One could almost believe you meant it.

    A little secret about those military folk – they train to do what they are now doing. This is their Olympiad and they are enjoying it.

  36. geeterpontiac says:

    Not at all bB,

    You and I have talked enough in the past and I since I have previously stated my distaste for, and my disagreement with the comment. And the fact of the matter is, you already know that. .

    Put quite simply, yes, I do have a distaste for Arab Muslims, but only those of a specific mindset. You know, like those that strap explosives on their children and send them out to blow themselves to bits in order to kill a few Jews along with themselves in order to please religious zealots.

    But, since we have dialogued about that in the past, you know that also.

    So, purely speculative, based on a distaste for Arab Muslims?

    Not at all. Just specifc Arab Muslims and their governments that condone and celebrate such acts.

  37. geeterpontiac says:

    “beerBoy says: “
    March 30, 2011 at 5:51 am

    ”Regarding the claim that an Israeli newspaper confirmed that Israel had sent 50,000 mercs to defend Gaddafi. I see a lot of claims based upon the same statement but haven’t found anything confirming it so I must conclude that it is false and apologize for my part in perpetuating this lie.”

    By the way, I had forgotten that I meant to thank you for checking this out and clarifying. It was very gracious of you and much appreciated. We all get fooled every now and then. Especially me. :)

  38. hansgruber says:

    Gee, Bush had the authorization of Congress, numerous UN resolutions and a coalition of 49 countries.

    Obama decided when he was out of the country, without Congressional authority..just like Clinton.

    Obama totally justified Bush’s reason for the action against Iraq & A’stan.

    Using his “justification”, why aren’t we in North Korea? Syria? Iran? What not Israel (Beer would love this this) since they seem to be denying the Palestinians their Obama Doctrine of “Universal Human Rights”?

  39. hans – this is the third thread (so far) you have repeated yourself verbatim.

    NO – I would not love an attack on Israel. I would, however, love for the US to stop sending Israel (which has a better economy than us right now) aid so they don’t have to invest their own tax money in buying more and better weaponry. And stop blindly supporting their interests in the U.N. Treat them like South Africa was treated until S.A. dropped apartheid.

  40. beerboy – it all the same or similar subject, just a diiferent day.

  41. hansgruber says:

    It’s relevant beer…..I find it strange the writer is trying to connect Hitler to Gaddafi but Gaddafi is killing his own people that oppose him, he is not killing people because of their ethnic or religious.

    Not like what Hitler or Stalin did to the Jews or what Saddam did did to the Kurds

  42. Deja-Vu, I loved your video post. It accurately depicts a liberal better than anything I’ve seen yet. “Mind-numbed” robots is exactly what these people are. Thanks for the laugh.

  43. The libs have lost this argument. xx98411 has shoved it down their throats on every point . Their attempts at using the War Powers Act has failed, but there’s always those die-hards who just can’t accept failure. No real point in debating the issue any longer, they clearly lost the argument.

  44. hg – anytime anyone wants to justify launching a military attack they invoke HItler. It wasn’t too long ago that Chamberlain was invoked to sissyfy those who dared question the Iraq invasion.

  45. whatIdid says:

    bB never reposted verbatum on multiple threads… has he ? ;)

  46. If I have reposted claims about another resident poster on multiple threads verbatim I’m sure my friend diddo archiving to recall it at an opportune moment.

  47. whatIdid says:

    Is that a denial ? Intentionally Obtuse ? Or willfully ignorant ?

  48. I do it all the time. Because others keep posting the same comments, I see not reason not to post the same response ( with spelling and grammer errors corrected).

  49. did…..you are letting me down…..you could have easily copy/pasted my comment about people who think they know how others’ think being fools in response to the multiple claims that I would be happy to have the US attack Israel. That would have been completely appropriate.

    But then……it would have been putting down a fellow rightist wouldn’t it?

  50. whatIdid says:

    Are you requesting I defend you?

    “how others’ think being fools” is your quote, not mine. I tend to agree that you probably would get some sort of tingle up your leg if we attacked Israel.

  51. then you are a fool.

  52. whatIdid says:

    Thanks Pee-Wee.

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