Letters to the Editor

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UNIONS: Laws on the books now protect workers

Letter by David C. Woods, University Place on March 14, 2011 at 12:53 pm with 79 Comments »
March 14, 2011 1:25 pm

It’s a shame that the public worker’s unions in Wisconsin have lost their collective bargaining rights. Now they are going to have to live just like me and the 93 percent of the private-sector workers who are not unionized.

This country has survived and even thrived without collective bargaining for the majority of us in the private sector. I doubt that the public workers in Wisconsin will suffer much due to this “setback.”

At one time, unions were absolutely necessary to protect workers against unscrupulous employers that made them work long hours without decent pay. But those days are pretty much gone now. We have many laws and regulations on the books to protect workers.

There is a need for unions in some private-sector industries, but I still am trying to figure out the need to unionize public workers. They work for the government, and thus are protected by these laws and regulations.

Seems to me the only reason public employee unions still exist is due to the strong bond between the unions and the Democratic Party. It’s a “you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch your back” mentality, and a recipe for corruption. It’s time this came to an end.

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Leave a comment Comments → 79
  1. David, great letter! I totally agree.

  2. mattersnot1 says:

    Right on!
    .
    I’m tired of paying for their union dues.

  3. geeterpontiac says:

    Well said.

  4. There are many laws on the books, yet we still employ police officers.
    Unions spend most of their efforts in protecting members, (and non members), from management running rough shod in violation of contracts they have signed.
    I have been a union shop steward in 2 different industries, one private, the other government. I only filed 1 grievance against management in my construction environment, but several every year when representing government employees.

    Bureaucrats are incredibly difficult to force following the valid contract.

  5. JudasEscargot says:

    According to the CONservatives, government workers are something akin to a black man or woman – prior to the Civil War – owned lock, stock and barrel by the taxpayers (slave masters) without a say in their career.

    Did it ever occur to these CONs that government workers pay taxes just like everyone else?

    Of course not. That would require critical thinking and listening to someone other than Rush Limbaugh or a FOX pundit.

    Hey, David – here’s how much back scratching is going on between our elected officials and our state employees. They haven’t seen a cost of living raise in over 10 years, many have been laid off, some, upon being rehired had to take a lower tier position, thus less pay. In addition, their cost of benefits have increase, the benefits are less than in the past AND, they got to take an 8 percent ADDITIONAL reduction in pay called a “furlough” – AKA time off without pay, regardless of if you had paid leave in the bank.

    Yeah, those state employees have really got the elected officials right where they want them, huh?

    Next time you write a letter to the editor, try some research so that you don’t end up looking like a fool, David

  6. JudasEscargot says:

    Oh…and just for the record, while the CONs are celebrating the fine work done by their GOP heroes in Wisconsin, they’ll enjoy making excuses for one of the GOP senators – Hopper – who is no longer living in his district and has taken up residence in Madison, with his mistress who is a lobbyist for Right Wing interests.

    Honor and ethics abound.

  7. JudasEscargot says:

    slyfed – a relative of mine organized unions for government employees for 17 years. His statement – “there is no need for a union when management knows how to do their job properly”

  8. JudasEscargot – In a perfect world, everyone would do their jobs properly, and we would all be living in peace and harmony.
    Everyone working by the hour, has much to be thankful to labor unions for in establishing livable wages and working conditions. Management does not concede anything out of “the goodness of their hearts”.
    Although the “management / labor” pendulum appears to have moved in the opposite direction from the days of the robber barons, those days could easily return without unions forcing management to operate for the common good.
    I had a good example of the differences when a few years ago I worked on a job where my construction craft was the only one that was unionized. The difference in treatment by management was obvious, and a sad to see, especially since on the job site I met up with a man I had known from junior high school who was working without union protections or benefits.

  9. Notice how the anti union crowd blames all evil on unions and the workers, while portraying big business as benevolent and fair?

    Sort of like slavery was defended in the old south.

  10. kawika51 says:

    Hey J.E., did you take your brain out to play with it and then forget to put it back? If you are going to be employed by the government, you must realize that the government (be it federal, state, or local) is going broke. Anybody who works for a company that is losing money and facing severe financial problems certainly has to accept the possibility of losing your job, giving up some benefits, and having to pay more for your retirement and health care. It’s the same working for the government. If the federal and state governments were private entities, they would be bankrupt. Dah!! Of course people employed by the government are facing these consequences. Time to join the rest of us in 93% of the private sector is not unionized. There are no guarantees in life, big buddy.

  11. The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) explicitly grants employees the tight to collective bargain and join trade unions.

    http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/Collective_bargaining

  12. This link is to a letter to Gov Walker from a WI teacher, well worth the read if you haven’t already. I think it touches on many of the reasons we need public unions.

    http://positivelypersistentteach.tumblr.com/post/3512331803/a-letter-to-scott-walker-from-a-wisconsin-teacher

    I don’t believe this teacher received a reply from the Gov but then his name is not Koch.

  13. David C. Woods writes, “This country has survived and even thrived without collective bargaining for the majority of us in the private sector.”

    Does David know that those “without collective bargaining” realized many of the same gains that union members fought for? Does he understand that employers had to satisfy their non-union employees by granting the same, or similar wages, benefits, working conditions, and holidays that union members fought for (Labor Day) lest they go union?

    He doubts “that the public workers in Wisconsin will suffer much due to this “setback.” Then why bother to take away collective bargaining if it doesn’t translate into sever losses for the public employees? Does he not understand that the whole purpose is in Wisconsin is to dramatically lower their wages and benefits?

    David contends that, “At one time, unions were absolutely necessary to protect workers against unscrupulous employers that made them work long hours without decent pay. But those days are pretty much gone now. We have many laws and regulations on the books to protect workers.” What does David think will happen to these laws now that organized labor is out of the picture? Does he think that people like Walker will shrivel up and blow away? Not hardly. This “setback” will empower them to the point that whatever gains people like David enjoy at the expense of those who, through their union bargained collectively, to re-evaluate labor law and undo years of legislation.

    It’s people like David who live under rocks, thinking that the government will protect them while they do nothing to protect themselves.

    Wake up, David. Walker doesn’t like you, either.

    ——
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
    ——

  14. David writes, “Seems to me the only reason public employee unions still exist is due to the strong bond between the unions and the Democratic Party. It’s a “you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch your back” mentality, and a recipe for corruption. It’s time this came to an end.”

    Whose back does Walker and the rest of the GOP scratch, David?

  15. harleyrider1 says:

    David, you wrote a thoughtful letter.

    Some people must live in the past to feel “safe” or to feel “right”. This is 2011 and substantial gains have been made in the workplace, both in our laws and in decency. We won’t be returning to the 20’s and 30’s – or even the 60’s.

    Unions had their place in history. So did voting “party” lines and spewing “party” propaganda. We’re smarter than that today. We want accountability and we want money taken from our paycheck to go where we want, as an individual – not as a collective society. That freedom is America.

  16. “So did voting “party” lines and spewing “party” propaganda.”

    …..as he spews party propaganda.

  17. JudasEscargot says:

    “kawika51 says:
    March 14, 2011 at 8:44 pm
    Hey J.E., did you take your brain out to play with it and then forget to put it back? If you are going to be employed by the government, you must realize that the government (be it federal, state, or local) is going broke.”

    Thus the billions in tax breaks for businesses and billionaires, kawika. It’s always smart, when you are going broke, to not charge your largest customers.

  18. theogsters says:

    Unions have fought for, and won, so many concessions over the years that most of them are now considered basic, for everyone (40-hour work week, work place safety standards, health coverage and pensions, to name a few). But, like their employers, unions have over-stepped on occasion. Their excessive perqs probably contributed to the decline of US industry and now threaten cash-stapped government operations; but that doesn’t mean unions should be annihilated. Instead, negotiators on both sides should acknowledge the realities of our tough, new, competitive world .

  19. JudasEscargot says:

    “We want accountability and we want money taken from our paycheck to go where we want, as an individual – not as a collective society. That freedom is America.”

    Accountablity? Who makes an employer more accountable than a union?

    “money from our paycheck to go where we want?” – don’t join a union workplace. It’s your choice.

    THAT freedom IS America.

  20. JudasEscargot says:

    “Course no one has ever accused a liberal of being smart. Just look at Michael Moore!”

    I wonder if Michael Moore has been more successful in his career endeavors than TMell. Just a question.

  21. Kawika: the reason government is going bankrupt is because corporations and the rich are still demanding and getting special tax breaks and other giveaways so they can send more American jobs overseas. And the public unions have accepted cuts and freezes in pay and benefits, and increased withholdings for health, retirement, and other benefits. Being non-unionized sure helped protect your private sector jobs.

    Rider, it’s not the 20’s and 30’s the neocons want to go back to but the 1870’s and 80’s.

    Theog: the 1950’s were the golden age of American prosperity and was the time of high rates of unions membership and a top income tax rate of 90%.

  22. lawrencejprice says:

    Yes mother and daddy government is going broke. Time to dump the all those gouging plundering public unions. This won’t gain much since mommy and daddy government is still on the hook for those massively over paid, over compensated jobs. Get rid of all those over paid costly public jobs as well. It’s long past time to move these cushy jobs over to the private sector. Everyone should pay the real cost for education, police and fire service. Run a school like a private sector business, of course you’ll have to pay tuition, meals, and transportation. Need the police, you will be charged for the cost to deliver that service. Need fire or aid, same deal. Throw the bums out, no one needs them anymore. Privatize all services. Just say’n….. be careful what you wish for….

  23. mrenchirito says:

    “kawika51 says:
    March 14, 2011 at 8:44 pm
    Hey J.E., did you take your brain out to play with it and then forget to put it back?”

    LMAO!

    You’ll note on your LTE I took stalker on and made her look like the fool she is. My favorite was her stand that the January special session was called on February 14th.

    The only fool here is Judas who fails to understand the January regular session was adjourned and the special session called in its place to only deal with specific issues. I never said the special session was called on Feb. 14th, Judas is a LIAR and a fool.

  24. mrenchirito says:

    “I wonder if Michael Moore has been more successful in his career endeavors than TMell. Just a question”

    Yes, I’m sure Michael Moore is much more successful in his career endeavors, which is lying and being a hypocrite on a continual basis, than TMell.

  25. Lawrence,
    Wisconsin: average state work makes $51,000 per year
    Wisconsin Gov Walker makes $137,000 or about 2.7 times what the average state worker makes.
    In the private sector, CEO AVERAGE salary is 364 times what their workers make.
    So now who’s you daddy?

    Mrenchirito: Is your real name Glenn Beck, or are you just trying to sound like him?

  26. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Funny how WI voters put this guy in office, he acts boldly, and now every hippie in America is throwing a tantrum.

    This is democracy at work. If the people of WI desire, they can vote him and his supporters out and repeal the law. When Obamacare was passed against the will of the people and the minority party I do not recall the outrage from the left over everyone’s ‘rights’, even though he is forcing people to buy a product and stole/socialized an industry (student loans) to pay for it. The right voted last November and new elected officials will use the democratic process to reflect what the voters put in them in office to do.

    The comments that we are back on a road toward slavery are ignorant. And I love the hatred toward business. A) Business is an entity not a person, B) the private sector, not the public is home to the American Dream. USSR tought us that everyone working for the govt doesn’t end very well.

  27. JudasEscargot says:

    xring – MR is a Michelle Malkin wannabe that ends up sounding like Michele Bachmann.

    “mrenchirito says:
    March 13, 2011 at 10:40 am
    “On February 14, 2011, January Special Session Senate Bill 11 was introduced by the Joint Committee on Finance, at the request of Governor Scott Walker, to address the budget deficit for the current fiscal year.”

    “mrenchirito says:
    March 15, 2011 at 11:42 am
    I never said the special session was called on Feb. 14th”

    Now, let’s recap. Walker was sworn in on January 3. According to MR, before January was up (19 working days) the legislature had ended and a Special Session was called or was it called on February 14, as MR said on March 13th at 10:40 am?

    Either Walker completed the legislature in record time, or MR is making up this crap as she goes along or both or either

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/jr1AB11hst.html

    Here is the complete timeline on “Bill 11″ “January special session” that has no date prior to February 15th.

    MR should be on Walker’s staff. Liars leading liars.

  28. JudasEscargot says:

    Concerned: Oh my….”hippie”??????? Now THAT really hurts. LMAO

    Take a look outside the FOX pundits about individual issues of the Health Care improvement legislation, known as “Obamacare” by the three word phrase crowd.

    Tell me the percentage of people that want to see children without insurance because of genetic defects.

    Tell me the percentage that wants to see people thrown off insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

    When you get to the details of the legislation, the majority of Americans like it, but when you attach a black man’s name to the legislation, they think it’s bad because there shouldn’t be a black man in the White House.

    We haven’t come a long way, baby.

  29. “and now every hippie in America is throwing a tantrum.” ???

    What is that supposed to mean, concernedtacoma7, that the American working class is made up of hippies, and that if we have anything to say about our existence it’s the same as “throwing a tantrum?”

    And who said that we were “back on the road to slavery?”

  30. JudasEscargot says:

    Just a bit of real proof:

    History of Assembly Bill 11
    ASSEMBLY BILL 11, January 2011 Special Session

    An Act relating to: state finances, collective bargaining for public
    employees, compensation and fringe benefits of public employees, the
    state civil service system, the Medical Assistance program, sale of
    certain facilities, granting bonding authority, and making an
    appropriation. (FE)
    2011
    02-15. A. Introduced by committee on ASSEMBLY ORGANIZATION, by
    request of Governor Scott Walker.

    Now, let’s not forget, boys and girls, that the Senate of WISCONSIN can’t use the nuclear option on financial issues

    This is the “bill” introduced by Walker on 2/15, as stipulated.

    Now, who is lying to who?

  31. JudasEscargot says:

    Like shooting fish in a barrel.

  32. Typical Judas stuff…

    to answer your questions… 0%… 0%… and crappy legislation is crappy legislation regardless of skin color or ideology…

    As a darker in color person myself, I cringe when a person of color pulls that “black man in the White House” card… I LMFAO when a pigmentally challenged person pulls that card…

    In honor of you Judas, I am doing both, cringing as I LMFAO…

    “We haven’t come a long way, baby.”

    I am sad for you in your view of the world you live in…

  33. Are you still on that Walker stuff… it was introduced and voted on in a Special Session in March…

    dude???

  34. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    March 15, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    The comments that we are back on a road toward slavery are ignorant. And I love the hatred toward business. A) Business is an entity not a person,”

    About part A, tell that to the Supreme Court please.

  35. JudasEscargot says:

    “rr98411 says:
    March 15, 2011 at 1:54 pm
    Are you still on that Walker stuff… it was introduced and voted on in a Special Session in March…

    dude???

    NO, DUDE. According to the timeline, it as introduced on February 15, as a January special session.

    Unless they lied on the timeline also. There are so many lies that come out of Walker’s office they are really tough to keep track of.

  36. JudasEscargot says:

    dude – “flashily dressed man: a man who wears flashy, highly stylish clothes”

    Not today, I’m hanging out in my sweats.

  37. So, David, you think everyone should be brought down to your level. Tell us all what you earned last year and what the value was of your benefits. Then we can decide if we want to be where you are or not since it really is our choice and not yours.

  38. mrenchirito says:

    On February 14, 2011, January Special Session Senate Bill 11 was introduced

    The BILL WAS INTRODUCED on Feb. 14th you fool! The special session STARTED IN JANUARY. That is why the title of the bills introduced are called “special session bills”. I”ve never seen anyone so stupid in my life.

  39. Judas – I know it is a lot of dates and words but further down the list is the date – 03-09 where the history shows that “pursuant to Joint Rule 3, …

    They provided Conference Substitute Amendment 1, to Assembly Bill 11 (only 138 pages too)

    They voted 18-1 > passed > went back to the Assembly > voted on > passed 57-38

    On 3-11, presented to the Governer > approved and filed as Wisconsin Act 10 (that only 46 pages)

    It is there in black and white, I know you don’t like the bill but… “elections have consequences”

    “We Won”… any question???

  40. mrenchirito says:

    “Now, let’s recap. Walker was sworn in on January 3. According to MR, before January was up (19 working days) the legislature had ended and a Special Session was called or was it called on February 14, as MR said on March 13th at 10:40 am?”

    No, not according to me. According to your brain dead self.
    Let’s recap. Walker was sworn in on January 3. He immediately ADJOURNED the regularly scheduled session and called a special session to address the problems in the state. All the bills introduced AFTER that point obviously have the January special session title in the name because that is when the session started.

    Got it now IQ of 10?

  41. mrenchirito says:

    “JudasEscargot says:
    March 15, 2011 at 1:43 pm
    Just a bit of real proof:

    History of Assembly Bill 11
    ASSEMBLY BILL 11, January 2011 Special Session”

    LOL, he has SPECIAL SESSION written IN HIS OWN POST yet he still says they aren’t in special session. This is the kind of idiocy I’ve been dealing with.

  42. mrenchirito says:

    Like shooting fish in a barrel.

  43. Judas – from the link you initially provided and the subsequent links and related documents…

    ASSEMBLY BILL 11, January 2011 Special Session

    Wisconsin Senate Roll Call
    JANUARY 2011 SPECIAL SESSION
    AB 11
    ADOPTION
    CA1

    2011 − 2012 LEGISLATURE
    CONFERENCE SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT 1,
    TO ASSEMBLY BILL 11
    March 9, 2011 − Offered by COMMITTEE OF CONFERENCE ON JANUARY 2011 SPECIAL
    SESSION ASSEMBLY BILL 11.

    January 2011 Special Session Date of enactment: March 11, 2011
    Assembly Bill 11 Date of publication*: March 25, 2011
    2011 WISCONSIN ACT 10

    Based on the fact that you provided the link, it is clear what you are looking at… it’s not clear if you understand what you are looking at… dude… ???

  44. David wrote of union members, “Now they are going to have to live just like me and the 93 percent of the private-sector workers who are not unionized.”

    Wouldn’t it make more sense if that 93% became organized union members?

    Are you totally against prosperity, so much so, that you choose to shoot yourself in the foot by remaining non-union?

    Wouldn’t you rather want to live like the 7% that you criticize?

    You can drag them down to your level, but what does that say about your level?

  45. Polago, I to would like to know who said we are ‘back on the road to slavery’?

    Shooting fish in barrael often lead to bullet in foot.

  46. Judas – so far, all that I have read from the Wisconsin government sites realated to this issue have Special Session someshere in the title or sub-title…

    Not too sure what to tell ya VB… I know it’s hard… pretend I am putting my arms around ya and giving you a big hairy bear hug…

    I feel better already… yeah me!

  47. concernedtacoma7 says:

    “What is that supposed to mean, concernedtacoma7, that the American working class is made up of hippies, and that if we have anything to say about our existence it’s the same as “throwing a tantrum?””

    No, the non-working class of unproductive, money sucking, American Dream hating socalists are hippies, and they champion the issues of the left. The current PR campiagn to paint all working class as democrats is a farce.

    And who said that we were “back on the road to slavery?” —
    Both JE and Xring brought up slavery in an obvious attempt to infer that those opposed to the left are racist. This is a habitual theme from the ignorant to smear those who have difference of opinion. Low class and polarizing.

  48. “the non-working class of unproductive, money sucking, American Dream hating socalists are hippies”

    I don’t know any American workers who would fit that description, concernedtacoma7.

  49. Special session or not, the bill and the actions of the WI GOP Senate is bing challenged under the WA State Open Meettings Law.

    8 republican senators are being recalled.

    Walker will be recalled in Feb 2013 after he has served his manditory one year.

  50. JudasEscargot says:

    “And who said that we were “back on the road to slavery?” —
    Both JE and Xring brought up slavery in an obvious attempt to infer that those opposed to the left are racist. This is a habitual theme from the ignorant to smear those who have difference of opinion. Low class and polarizing.”

    Concerned: Since you obviously don’t embrace the finer points of conversation, allow me to lower this to a level that you might comprehend.

    Many of the Conservatives act as if government workers are their personal property because the “pay taxes”. They totally fail to embrace that said employees provide labor for their wages and are taxpayers as well. For some strange reason they think because they personally provide less than 1% of a government worker’s wage that gives them the right to decide how a government worker get’s to negotiate their wages, benefits, etc. Thus the “slavemaster” attitude. It had nothing to do with race.

    I spend money at Fred Meyer, yet I treat the employees of Fred Meyer the way I would like to be treated – with dignity and regard for their need to have a living wage with which to raise their families. Maybe – and I’m just suggesting here – if people would realize that government employees are just their neighbors who pay taxes and spend money to keep the local economy alive, they might be less apt to be so controlling as to how government employees negotiate their wages and benefits and stop acting like they are a piece of property.

    Your need to deny racism in this discussion, may come from a deep seated issue within yourself, but in this case, my contention had to do with an “ownership” mentality.

  51. JudasEscargot says:

    “the non-working class of unproductive, money sucking, American Dream hating socalists are hippies”

    Awful lot of “hippies” in those red states that are taking more money from the Federal government than they are putting into it.

    If I’m not incorrect, Mississippi and Alaska are two of the top money sucking states in the Union.

  52. JudasEscargot says:

    “Walker was sworn in on January 3. He immediately ADJOURNED the regularly scheduled session and called a special session to address the problems in the state.”

    Someone alert the media. No one knows about this.
    Like I said, making it up as we go.

    According to the Senate Website there was no adjournment on January 3 to enter a special session.

  53. JudasEscargot says:

    You’ll have to read the tabs into this, as they won’t copy/paste:

    January 3, 2011 Monday
    FloorperiodJanuary 11, 2011 Tuesday
    FloorperiodJan 25 to Feb. 10, 2011 Tu − Th
    FloorperiodFebruary 22 to 24, 2011 Tu − Th
    FloorperiodMarch 8 to 10, 2011 Tu − Th
    Bills sent to GovernorMarch 24, 2011 Thursday
    FloorperiodApril 5 to 14, 2011 Tu − Th
    FloorperiodMay 10 to 19, 2011 Tu − Th
    FloorperiodJune 7 to 30, 2011, OR budget passage
    Nonbudget Bills sent to GovernorAugust 4, 2011 Thursday
    Budget Bill sent to GovernorAugust 4, 2011 (or later) Thursday
    FloorperiodSeptember 13 to 22, 2011 Tu − Th
    FloorperiodOctober 18 to Nov. 3, 2011 Tu − Th
    Bills sent to GovernorDecember 8, 2011 Thursday
    FloorperiodJanuary 17 to 26, 2012 Tu − Th
    FloorperiodFebruary 14 to 23, 2012 Tu − Th
    Last general−business FloorperiodMarch 6 to 15, 2012 Tu − Th
    Bills sent to GovernorMarch 22, 2012 Thursday
    Limited−business FloorperiodApril 24 to May 3, 2012 Tu − Th
    Bills sent to GovernorMay 10, 2012 Thursday
    Veto Review FloorperiodMay 22 and 23, 2012 Tu − W
    Interim, committee workMay 24, 2012, to Jan. 7, 2013 Th − Mon
    Bills sent to GovernorJune 13, 2012 Wednesday
    2013 InaugurationJanuary 7, 2013 Monday

    Even without the tabs, it’s fairly easy to see that the WI State Senate calendar, published on their website, is pre-scheduled for two years. There is nothing on said website to inform the public (it’s a law, ya know….) about “January special session” called in February.

    Despite the desires of Walker, the GOP and the CONs on this forum, there are still laws that have to be followed and Walker is in violation.

  54. JudasEscargot says:

    Fascinating!!!!!!!!!!

    The webpage that outlined the “history” of the “January Special Session” has disappeared from the website and has been replaced with:

    Page Not Found
    The page you requested cannot be found. There may be several reasons for this.
    Mistyped URL.
    A bad link from another site.
    The file may have been moved.

    Scrub a dub dub.

  55. mrenchirito says:

    Dimwit said: “Someone alert the media. No one knows about this.
    Like I said, making it up as we go.”

    Hey Judas, maybe because some dimwit is looking at the regular session schedule which was ADJOURNED, there is that word again.

    “The schedule of floorperiods for the new session was established by Senate Joint Resolution 1. The January special session is ongoing. The regular session has adjourned pursuant to SJR-1; the next scheduled floorperiod begins on April 5.

    “January 2011 Special Session
    Governor Walker called the legislature into special session on January 4 to consider legislation on a variety of topics, including tax credits, tort law, medical savings accounts, other legislation relating to taxation, and the budget repair bill. ”

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/spotlight/index.htm

    BUT NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT IT, LOLOLOLOL!!!

  56. mrenchirito says:

    “Fascinating!!!!!!!!!!

    The webpage that outlined the “history” of the “January Special Session” has disappeared”

    Nope, wrong again.
    “January 2011 Special Session
    Governor Walker called the legislature into special session on January 4 to consider legislation on a variety of topics, including tax credits, tort law, medical savings accounts, other legislation relating to taxation, and the budget repair bill.”

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/spotlight/index.htm

  57. mrenchirito says:

    “Critics of the legislation have contended that the conference committee met in violation of open meetings law. An open meetings complaint was filed by Representative Barca on March 10. Wisconsin’s open meetings law can be found in Subchapter V of Wisconsin Statutes Chapter 19. Senate Rule 93 and Assembly Rule 93 provide modified notification procedures for times when the legislature is in special session. Article IV, Section 8 of the Wisconsin Constitution gives each house the authority to determine the rules of its proceedings. For more information on this topic, see our Informational Bulletin 98-1 on Special and Extraordinary Sessions of the Wisconsin Legislature.”

  58. mrenchirito says:

    “On February 14, 2011, January Special Session Senate Bill 11 was introduced by the Joint Committee on Finance, at the request of Governor Scott Walker, to address the budget deficit for the current fiscal year. The Joint Committee on Finance held a public hearing on February 16 and voted for passage (as amended by Senate Amendment 1) 12-4 on February 17. Action on the bill was delayed due to the lack of the required quorum in the Senate. On February 17, 14 Democratic senators left the state, effectively preventing a vote from being taken. Around 1:00 a.m. February 25, the Assembly passed January Special Session Assembly Bill 11, its version of the budget repair bill, 51-17, after a 60-hour floor session during which over 100 amendments to the bill were offered.

    January Special Session AB-11 was taken up by the Senate on February 25 with all 14 Democratic senators still absent. The bill was debated and given its second and third readings. While both versions of the bill, SB-11 and AB-11, were ready for a vote on final passage in the Senate, they did not have the 3/5 quorum required for passage of fiscal bills.”

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/spotlight/spotl473.htm

  59. JudasEscargot says:

    “WHEREAS, on January 3, 2011, I, Scott Walker, Governor of the State of Wisconsin, by Executive Order #1, convened a special session of the Legislature at the State Capitol on January 4, 2011, at 10:00 a.m. solely to consider and act upon specified legislation
    NOW THEREFORE, I, Scott Walker, Governor of the State of Wisconsin, pursuant to Article IV, Section 11 and Article V, Section 4 of the Wisconsin Constitution, hereby amend and supplement Executive Order #1 as follows:
    1. In addition to considering the legislation previously specified, the Legislature shall consider and act upon legislation relating to increasing the amount of the credits under the economic development tax credit program; and
    2. The tenth paragraph of Executive Order #1, which set forth matters to be considered and acted upon by the Legislature, shall be amended to state as follows:
    6. The authority of a state agency to promulgate rules interpreting the provisions of a statute enforced or administered by the agency and to implement or enforce any standard, requirement, or threshold as a term or condition of a license issued by the state agency; gubernatorial approval of proposed administrative rules; economic impact analyses of proposed rules and emergency rules; venue in a declaratory judgment action seeking judicial review of the validity of an administrative rule and in an action in which the sole defendant is the state; requirements for wind energy systems; an exemption from water quality standards for wetlands and from certain other regulatory provisions concerning water quality and surface water use that apply to a wetland area in Brown County; review of certain changes to shoreland, wetland, and floodplain zoning ordinances that apply to a wetland area in Brown County; providing an exemption from emergency rule procedures; and granting rule-making authority.
    IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Great Seal of the State of Wisconsin to be affixed. Done at the Capitol in the City of Madison this thirteenth day of January, in the year two thousand eleven.
    SCOTT WALKER
    Governor

    There is the declaration of special session – without MR’s editing. As we can all see it had nothing to do with government employees.

    Again, copied and pasted from Wisconsin legislative document http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Session%20Related/journals/1/10?f=templates$fn=document-frame.htm$3.0$q=%5Bfield%20folio-destination-name%3A'S42'%5D$uq=$x=Advanced$up=1#LPHit1

  60. mrenchirito says:

    What does the expert say? The Wisconsin Senate Chief Clerk, a non-partisan official who’s job it is to determine if any rules have been violated, stated this:

    “Tonight’s Conference Committee was properly noticed. From the Senate Chief Clerk, Rob Marchant:

    FYI . . .

    There was some discussion today about the notice provided for the legislature’s conference committee. In special session, under Senate Rule 93, no advance notice is required other than posting on the legislative bulletin board. Despite this rule, it was decided to provide a 2 hour notice by posting on the bulletin board. My staff, as a courtesy, emailed a copy of the notice to all legisaltive offices at 4:10, which gave the impression that the notice may have been slightly less than 2 hours. Either way, the notice appears to have satisfied the requirements of the rules and statutes.

    I thought you might find this information to be useful.

    Thanks.

    Rob”

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wisconsin-senate-chief-clerk-says-vote-procedurally-was-sound_553945.html

  61. JudasEscargot says:

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf

    document not found

    search in reference to – LRB-1383/2 CMH/RAC/TJD:all: all January 2011 Special Session 2011 – 2012 LEGISLATURE SENATE BILL 11 February 14, 2011 – Introduced by C OMMITTEE ON S ENATE O …

  62. mrenchirito says:

    “There is the declaration of special session”

    So Judas FINALLY admits it. Of course now he’s changing his tune, to “it’s an improper use of a special session”. He’s been arguing for the past week that they weren’t even in one.

    You have to take things one step at a time with the slow ones.

  63. JudasEscargot says:

    I’m really impressed by a concocted, alleged email that was published by…

    The Weekly Standard | A Weekly Conservative Magazine and Blog

    yep. Now I’m convinced that Walker did everything by the book. I mean, you know that the Weekly Standard wouldn’t publish anything to try to make it look like the GOP was on the up and up……

    By the way, Bill O’Reilly is an independent. He even said so. LMAO

  64. mrenchirito says:

    Yeah I knew that was coming, so here’s the same exact memo in Huffpo. “Balanced enough for ya?”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/capercaper/labor-recall-wisconsin-gop-court-challenge_n_833848_80231515.html

  65. JudasEscargot says:

    “solely to consider and act upon specified legislation……”

    you left something out MR. As usual.

    MR has been stipulating that this “special session” was all about collective bargaining and the above document demonstrates that there was a ‘special session” about……well, you read it, I’m not going to repeat it….but there was nothing in that declaration that had one thing to do with any of the subject matter of this forum.

    MR – You can squeal until the cows come home, but your manipulation of documents and facts will not get past me.

    Maybe while you are screaming, you can explain how they used the nuclear option on a budget issue but said it wasn’t a budget issue. That will be about as good as the special session “solely to consider and act upon specified legislation” – none of which was about collective bargaining and budgets.

    You are halfassed with your halftruths.

  66. mrenchirito says:

    Here’s the Chicago Tribune, that good enough?

    “Senate Clerk Rob Marchant said under Senate rules, no notice was required other than posting it on the legislative bulletin board. Despite that rule, he said, the Senate gave two hours’ notice “as a courtesy.”

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-complaints-accuse-wis-senators-of-violations-20110310,0,7176983.story

  67. JudasEscargot says:

    So a commenter in the Huffington Post now becomes an authority for them?

    LMAO

    Boy, The Olympian is in trouble.

    I note that you failed to mention the comment response from Big Rex who disagrees with capercaper……

  68. mrenchirito says:

    “MR has been stipulating that this “special session” was all about collective bargaining”

    Another lie. This whole time, every post I’ve given the last few days was only around ONE SINGLE ISSUE. Whether or not the Wisconsin Legislature was/is in a special session. You have been arguing (until just now) that they have not been. I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are.

    Now you are going in a totally new direction saying the special session is not valid. You know what, you go run with that, I’ve proved my point. It’s not my job to determine if the session is valid, all I did was prove THEY ARE IN ONE.

  69. mrenchirito says:

    Big Rex can disagree all he wants, just like you he’s not the Wisconsin Senate Chief Clerk. Need another source?

  70. JudasEscargot says:

    “Wednesday’s meeting represented a work-around designed to end an impasse over Republican Gov. Scott Walker’s budget-repair bill. One part of the measure would strip most public workers of their collective bargaining rights, while other parts would increase the amount that public employees contribute to their health-care and pension costs.”

    Interesting. The same ChiTrib article said that the meeting was designed to end an impass over the budget repair bill. Part of that was to strip collective bargaining rights.

    One slight problem that the AG didn’t cover his ass on – you can’t exercise nuclear option on budget issues.

    Round and round and round we go……….

  71. JudasEscargot says:

    “solely to consider and act upon specified legislation”

    curiouser and curiouser…..LOL

  72. JudasEscargot says:

    Well…..we KNOW that the State Clerk can’t be wrong, nor could manipulate things to favor the Governor…..LOL

    Remember, this is the same Governor that stated a willingness to accept a gratuity from a billionaire for his “work” against union employees.

    I’m sure that Walker and his staff are all 100% honest.

    “solely to consider and act upon specified legislation….”

    I just love that line…..

  73. JudasEscargot says:

    Nice try, though, MR. You rammed the ‘special session’ long enough to make me dig deeper. I kept looking for “special session” in connection to the state budgets and collective bargaining issues. I should have known that it would be something obscure having nothing to do with the issue at hand.

    LOL

  74. mrenchirito says:

    Some ditz wrote “Well…..we KNOW that the State Clerk can’t be wrong,”

    LOL of course we KNOW Judas knows more about the Wisconsin Senate rules than the non-partisan expert who’s job it is to interpret thos rules, LOL!

    Nice try Judas, you finally figured out they have been in special session all along, so now you’re looking for new windmills to fight.

  75. mrenchirito says:

    some blockhead wrote..”One slight problem that the AG didn’t cover his ass on – you can’t exercise nuclear option on budget issues”

    That’s nice, you go fight that one. In the meantime we can all agree they have been in special session all along.

  76. mrenchirito says:

    LOL, Judas has to run away with his tail in between his legs and claim “victory” on his sad website. He knows he was thoroughly trounced here so he has to parade his victory to his 3 friends. Oh and p.s. keep trumpeting how many people visit your website, 3/4 of them are people LAUGHING AT HOW STUPID IT IS!

    Oh and for someone who claims to not read the paper down south anymore, you sure do post a lot of comments from there. More lies, more hypocricy, this is the real Judas.

  77. sandiKLawz says:

    that mrenchirito guy has issues

  78. Laws on the books that protect workers are there because unions.

    Being on the books now does not mean it will be on the books tomorrow.

    The Walker law faces several court actions, some under the state open meetings law because of how it was passed, others because of its content.

  79. It’ll be interesting to see how Walker’s law, which targets certain public unions and not others, makes it through tests for constitutionality.

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