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DOMA: President needs to defend law

Letter by James S. Barr, Tacoma on Feb. 28, 2011 at 4:28 pm with 50 Comments »
March 1, 2011 10:39 am

Re: “Obama won’t defend law banning gay marriage” (TNT, 2-24).

The idea of having a president who refuses to defend our laws is repugnant to me. If the president is against a certain law he has the right to asked that it be changed, but no president should just refuse to do his job.

What if the next president is apposed to the new health care law? Would it be OK to just not enforce it?

We are a country of law, and one does not get to pick and choose which ones to obey and which not to. That includes the president.

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  1. Not to change the subject, but this is exactly what traffic cameras are all about, Jim, zero tolerance.

  2. The author missed the point of what actually happened. The President still will obey the law until they change it. Defending a law that is wrong is a different kettle of fish and there is no requirement to do so. As a matter of fact, defending a law that is wrong because it is discriminatory, as the one in question is, would be unconscionable.

  3. This is no doubt a political move to appease his liberal base as he’s made a lot of them pretty angry lately.

    By taking this position he can appear to be living somewhere between enforcing the law and disdaining it at the same time.

  4. Par for the course.
    If he won’t prosecute civil rights violations by the black Panthers why would this be a surprise?

  5. Publico your stance still leaves us with an untenable position. The next President desides to obey the new health law but not defend it against states not participating. It becomes the same problem. Please remember he is the president not the king. We fired Nixon as he could not understand the difference.

  6. APimpNamedSlickback says:

    Publico:

    He does have the requirement to enforce and defend the laws of the United States. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals did not have the authority to require him to assess the Constitutionality of the law, as it did in this case. He followed the court’s instructions, as he should have, but the only possible conclusion he could have come to was that his administration must defend the law.

    The Executive does not have the authority to evaluate the Constitutionality of laws once they are passed.

    Obama’s only errors here were that he: 1) assumed he had the authority to make the decision forwarded to him by the court, and 2) ordered the DOJ to apply that decision in all other Circuits.

  7. JudasEscargot says:

    The Governor of Wisconsin has an obligation to uphold the Federal Labor Laws, but I don’t hear the Cons complaining about that.

    If upholding the law is the question, why isn’t George Bush in jail?

  8. JudasEscargot says:

    “WASHINGTON — The American people have heard President Bush and his spokespeople say many times that the U.S. government does not engage in torture.

    Whether Bush was believed or not is another story — especially in light of the photographic evidence of the abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib. It’s understood that many of the photos are too sadistically graphic to be made public.

    Still, the official U.S. denials of torture continued until earlier this month when Bush acknowledged in an interview with ABC-TV that he knew about and approved “enhanced interrogation” of detainees, including “waterboarding” or simulated drowning.

    “As a matter of fact,” Bush added, “I told the country we did that. And I told them it was legal. We had legal opinions that enabled us to do it.”

    <as usual, the Cons, as opposed to serious stuff, want to focus on who gets married and why

  9. James, tell it to Baby Boy Bush who appended signing statements to hundreds of laws that said the law did not apply to him or to executive agencies.

    Or to Saint Ronnie who broke US laws by selling military equipment to Iran and conducted illegal war in South America.

    Whatido, The incident with the Two Black Panthers occurred in 2006, and the case was dropped long before the 2008 election. Which din not stop FOX from trying to make it an issure.

    Oldman, The Health Care Reform Law gives individual states to opt out of the law.

  10. JudasEscargot says:

    (Reuters) – Wisconsin officials said Tuesday they would not ease entry restrictions at the Capitol Building in Madison after a judge ordered there be public access during business hours.

    The Capitol building has been the focus of two weeks of protests by labor unions and their supporters opposed to Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to curtail union power.

    The state agency that operates the Capitol building said it was already in compliance with the judge’s order.

    Dane County Circuit Court Judge Daniel Moeser ordered state officials on Tuesday to open access. Moeser’s order was granted without a hearing and specified it would stand until the trial court is able to schedule a hearing on the matter.

    A hearing on the restraining order sought by the Wisconsin State Employees Union is scheduled for Tuesday afternoon.

    Oh my gawd…..some gay people want to get married!!!!!!!!!

  11. JudasEscargot Federal employee’s can form a union but they cannot negotiate pay or other financial benefits. It is against the law. A law passed by the democrats during the Carter admin. Carter was happy to sign it.

  12. JudasEscargot says:

    Oldman, what does that have to do with the Governor of Wisconsin violating the law?

  13. mrenchirito says:

    I see someone is longing for attention with the bold type again… “look at me!”

    The ones truly breaking an actual law are the Democratic Senators gone AWOL.

    “946.12(1)
    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law”

    But don’t let the facts get in the way of your spin.

  14. It has just as much relevance as your Bush rant above.

  15. Judas, All I’m saying is that the Governor of Wisconsin is simply trying to control spending the same way the democrats did during the Carter admin.

  16. JudasEscargot says:

    Oldman – restriction of access to a public building is controlling spending? Breaking the law by not following a judicial order is controlling spending?

    We ARE talking about lawbreaking, aren’t we?

  17. JudasEscargot says:

    Wencherito:

    glad to see YOUR back.

    I understand you miss me in the Southern edition.

  18. JudasEscargot says:

    “946.12(1)
    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law”

    I made your paste bold so your feelings wouldn’t be hurt.

    Lets take a look further than Wenchie’s editing:
    946.12(1)

    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or

    946.12(2)

    (2) In the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee, does an act which the officer or employee knows is in excess of the officer’s or employee’s lawful authority or which the officer or employee knows the officer or employee is forbidden by law to do in the officer’s or employee’s official capacity; or

    946.12(3)

    (3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another; or

    Well, well, well. If the Democrats are in violation of paragraph 1, I’d say the Emperor…..er uh, Governor is guilty of violation of graphs 2 and 3.

    That doesn’t even begin to address agreeing to a gratuity…….LOL

  19. JudasEscargot says:

    But…whatever we do…..make sure that gay people can’t marry because THAT is the important topic.

    ::::::::::eyeroll:::::::::::

  20. Wisconsin State law also requires the governor to ‘negotiate in good faith with the state workers unions.’ Walker as not done so and is therefore not in compliance with the law.

  21. Judas, how can you see mren’s back from where you are?

    I think I know some people here who’d like to see YOUR back.

    Don’t get your shorts in a wad, I’m just razzin’ you.

    On more serious note, just because you are short-sighted and cannot appreciate how seemingly trivial things when played out over time can have disastrous effects on a society, you shouldn’t judge those who CAN see farther down the road than to the mailbox.

  22. concernedtacoma7 says:

    I love when the far left runs out of intelligent debate and brings up Pres Bush. But since it has been brought up, President Bush did what he did to protect America, whether you approve of the methods or not. It was not a political move like everything coming out of the current resident of the White House.

    And how Abu Ghraib was not sanctioned by the President. Your continued outrage of a couple rogue Soldiers 6 years ago versus outrage against the daily acts terrorism by islamic terrorists is misguided and ignorant.

  23. Rollo_Tomassi says:

    Yup – that defense of marriage law sure is important.

    Go ahead folks, raise your hands. How many think your own marriage will just fall right apart if gays and lesbians are allowed to marry?

  24. Those who think the President is wrong and is shirking his duty are those who oppose gay marriage. Those who think he is right defend gay marriage as a vital human right.
    There is no clear Constitutional requirement for him to defend every law without exception. The Justice Department determined, after looking at all the particulars that the law was not constitutionally viable and that it should not be defended.
    The courts will decide in the end.
    I applaud the President for his stand for equality. That is what liberals do.

  25. Maybe it’s “above his pay grade” P…

  26. You can always tell when the far right runs out of ammunition. They start throwing sticks and stones.

  27. spungamy says:

    My impression, although granted I haven’t researched this much, is that he wasn’t refusing to obey the law so much as saying it wasn’t constitutional. Since the primary foundation for American law is the Constitution, and all laws enacted must be in agreement with it, what he’s saying from what I’ve understood is that this particular law is actually illegal based on a more fundamental earlier ruling in our nation’s history, and as such should be struck down. You can agree with him or not, but his line of argument is reasonable and not just making things up to suit himself.

  28. JudasEscargot says:

    “sozo says:
    March 1, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    Judas, how can you see mren’s back from where you are?

    I think I know some people here who’d like to see YOUR back.”

    Sozo – congrats! For the first time since I started posting on here, you actually understood one of my satires. Been reading more intellectual materials lately?

    As to how I can see Wenchito’s back from where I am……if I stopped fast, while walking…..I’d have to see a proctologist to have Wenchito removed.

  29. JudasEscargot says:

    On more serious note, just because you are short-sighted and cannot appreciate how seemingly trivial things when played out over time can have disastrous effects on a society, you shouldn’t judge those who CAN see farther down the road than to the mailbox.

    Gosh, I didn’t know you had a crystal ball. Isn’t that “occult”?

  30. Does that apply to the left as well Po?

  31. One of your satires? Really? mmm hmmm

  32. Do all of your criticisms of the left apply to the right, as well, whateveritisyoudid?

  33. From Gov. Christie on NBC (not Fox please note): about running for president…

    “I think when you have people who make the decision just based upon seeing the opportunity you have a much greater likelihood that you’re going to have a president who is not ready. And then we all suffer from that.”

    I’m kinda wishing Obama had had this kind of wisdom and integrity. No wonder people want Christie to run!

  34. And how much experience did Christy, Walker, and Palin have when they became governors?

  35. Such as Po… ? (you didn’t answer the question)
    .
    xring, sozo was clearly speaking of the office of president… Barry was a community organizer and a 1/2 term senator… nice d.o.c. tho.

  36. I was making the point that Christie was saying he is not ready to be president at this time. Again, I’m wishing Barack Obama had had such humility.

  37. Footnote…being a governor of a state and being president of the USA are very different. However, I DO think that an experienced governor who has been highly successful in managing state affairs is a reasonable presidential candidate…Clinton comes to mind.

    I think we will see Christie in a presidential race one of these days if he remains untouched by scandal and the press doesn’t skewer him.

  38. xring says:
    March 2, 2011 at 9:22 pm
    The Republicans and Tea Baggers…

    Polago says:
    March 1, 2011 at 9:18 pm
    You can always tell when the far right runs out of ammunition. They start throwing sticks and stones.

    since when is xring a rightie?

  39. sozo – and Christie thanks he can beat Obama in 2012.

    My point was that one is never quilified to do certain jobs until they actually do the job.

  40. I don’t throw sticks and stones, I throw facts and figures, They hurt more.

  41. “sozo – and Christie thanks he can beat Obama in 2012.”

    It is my understanding he has no plans to run in 2012.

    And this: “one is never quilified to do certain jobs until they actually do the job.”

    Really? Remind me not to put you in charge of personnel.

  42. I haven’t archived him much, but here goes…
    .
    xring says:
    March 3, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    I don’t throw sticks and stones, I throw facts and figures, They hurt more.
    …..
    xring says:
    March 2, 2011 at 9:22 pm
    The Republicans and Tea Baggers will be feasting high on the hog on the scrapes thrown down by the corporate masters
    ……..

    xring says:
    December 6, 2010 at 7:54 pm
    Sozo, stop being a troll.
    ……….
    xring says:
    December 7, 2010 at 11:02 am
    I did and found a picture of aislander
    …………..
    xring says:
    October 24, 2010 at 2:16 pm
    Roncella – the right wears blinders. And most teabaggers…
    ………….
    xring says:
    November 19, 2010 at 10:23 pm
    And the intellectual right wing leads off with personal attacks on the letter writer rather than attempting to disprove or mitigate the charges with facts and reason.

    PS: Speaker to be Bonehead is…
    …………

    ‘nough said?

  43. jimm – I’m gonna get jealous!

    ;-)

  44. … just keepin’ it real.

  45. I hereby promise to write all my putdowns in palin-english so certain people will have a better chance to understand them.

  46. ah, so you do name call (as you demonstrated with much aplomb)… and the “facts” I provided so eloquently illustrate…

  47. Concerned,
    Since when is torture, spying on Americans (in America), outing a covert CIA operative, and ignoring the Constitution the way to defend America?

    Abu Ghraib was sanctioned, just like rendition, all the way to the White House.

    What:
    The President made a decision and issued an ordered. I would say that is within his pay grade.

    All of us occasional resort to name calling. Some do it with style and grace to reinforce a comment, others because they cannot find a more suitable comeback.

  48. … and you the latter, as you have demonstrated.

  49. Sozo and whoever– learning curve: a graphical representation of the changing rate of learning for a given activity or tool. Typically, the increase in retention of information is sharpest after the initial attempts, and then gradually evens out, meaning that less and less new information is discovered after each repetition.

    What – am I the latter? Well I don’t really know. But IMO you definitely are.

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