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SHOOTING: Palin missed a great opportunity

Letter by Jeff Lieurance, Puyallup on Jan. 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm with 109 Comments »
January 13, 2011 1:59 pm

The conservative commentators in general and Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter in particular continue to baffle me. Somehow they’re making Palin out to be the victim in the whole Tucson shooting brouhaha.

Let’s be clear on something: No one is of the mind that Palin made that kid in Tucson take a gun to kill and wound a score of innocent people.

However, the fact of the matter is, the type of rhetoric that Palin, Michelle Bachmann and others spew appeals to a certain type of individual who will act on his impulses because they feel their ideas are in sync. Palin and the others aren’t at fault, but they did contribute and influence the dynamic in a visible and powerful way.

They would be much more credible if, instead of blasting their critics and trying to defend their actions, they were to call for people to tone it down to something resembling reasonable discourse. Palin missed a great opportunity to show the world that she’s capable of rational and deep thought. Instead, she’s making it about her.

Liberals and the left are not, contrary to Coulter, trying to outlaw the use of metaphors. We’re appealing to common sense to keep things like gun sights, “Second Amendment remedies,” “Reload,” “Join me by shooting an M16 to take out Rep. Giffords” out of an already emotional debate.

There is a connection, and to deny that is to deny reality. But that’s what Palin does.

Leave a comment Comments → 109
  1. JudasEscargot says:

    Ann is such a pro at metaphors. For instance:

    “Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant.”

    Now that’s a metaphor directed to looneys that means “if you come in contact with a liberal, the are a traitor that defends the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein, thus their are traitors and are trying to ruin America. Protect us”

    Now as we all know, death is the penality for treason (traitors), so……..

    Yeah, nothing inflammatory about Annie.

  2. JudasEscargot says:

    “Alan Colmes: “You hate liberals. You despise liberals. This is unbelievable. We should execute them to make liberals scared?”

    Coulter: “Right. Right!”

    I think I’l stop now before I vomit.

  3. puyallupmutt says:

    Palin should get herself a new speech writer. She clearly did not understand half the words the spoke. Besides the MILF factor to some men and support from the religious right, I fail to comprehend her continued presence on the front pages of the media.
    I have to agree with a prominent GOP reporter who said that she is a “poison pill” to Republican hopes for 2012.
    As long as she is the face of some GOP issues, the party is doomed in 2012.

  4. Before this things gets out of hand, I respectfully ask that all of you who wish to comment please check out this link via YouTube… Notice the dates of the postings…


    I don’t think Sarah Palin is a victim… but I do think she is being treated unfairly.

    (To TNT – I am asking for a little leeway here)

  5. “rr98411 says:
    January 13, 2011 at 2:22 pm
    Before this things gets out of hand, I respectfully ask that all of you who wish to comment please check out this link via YouTube… Notice the dates of the postings…


    I don’t think Sarah Palin is a victim… but I do think she is being treated unfairly.”
    Not one responsible person represented in the video as opposed to the cross hair poster and the invitation to shoot a M-16.
    Big difference and the politician should know better because what is shown on the video is the kind of reaction we all abhor.

  6. Publico – we can all choose our reactions to the words, images and sounds place before us.

    We keep demonizing people on all sides of the various issues. What is the most sickening is that we continue to do it AFTER the President of the United States spoke movely of the people that were affected.

    Again, Sarah Palin is not a victim but she is a target of rhetoric that has gone too far. She can take it but why does it have to go this far…

  7. This loonie tune didn’t watch TV, listen to the radio, or read newspapers so please explain to me how he could possibly be affected by what anybody said. We would be much better off if we spent our efforts trying to develop a way to recognize the crazies before they explode rather than trying to blame others after they do.

  8. menopaws says:

    Sarah Palin is ALWAYS the victim–that’s her game………..But, I do not believe the shooting had anything to do with her or anyone else who uses intemperate language………but, she had a huge opportunity to behave like a statesman. Instead, once again, she is the victim. She has very little to offer and I shudder at the thought of her as our President. The Republican party has some extremely capable and intelligent women to offer to the American people. Of course, they don’t do big hair and leather suits—but Kay Bailey Huchinson, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins have made careers of being EFFECTIVE legislators…..Perhaps they may not be flashy–but competence and intelligence beat flashy in the real world most of the time. Take a lesson Ms. Palin, Ann Coulter, Ms. Bachmann–the bell is ringing- I think your 15 minutes of fame might be ending.

  9. “Palin and the others aren’t at fault, but they did contribute and influence the dynamic in a visible and powerful way.”

    There is not a shred of evidence for that assertion. There are lies and damned lies. Yours, Jeff, is a damned lie.

  10. menopaws and others – you want this to stop, you want her 15 mins to end then I challenge you, ALL of you to stop right now, post nothing more about her, STOP NOW…. and watch the sands of time fade away.

  11. MalcolmRussell says:

    I assume the writer also blames Marxist rhetoric for the Kennedy assignation and believes that heavy metal music is responsible for the Columbine Shootings?

  12. There is a lot of straw man through hyperbole:

    Catalyzed by the assassination of a federal judge and the attempted assassination of a Congresswoman, many on the Left have decried the violent rhetoric of some on the Right. Perhaps some have tried to make a causative connection but I haven’t seen it.

    The Right responds strongly saying: there is not proof of causation, I have my 1st Amendment rights, you do it too, I am being unfairly victimized, words have no consequences except when they are criticisms by the Left of the words being used by the Right.

    Bottom line: yes – the assassin is responsible of his own actions and yes – the right wing pundits/politicos who inflamed the mob through violent rhetoric should be publicly criticized.

  13. Sheeeez, there he goes again.

    What mob? The shooter acted alone. There is no evidence he was influenced by rhetoric from the right or left. When all your pet theories fail, try the truth. He’s nutty as a pecan tree.

  14. Parkland says:

    Gee, another letter writer that wouldn’t even know what “rhetoric” means if his email wasn’t full of updates from every prog mailing list he belongs to telling him to use it.

    Last week, there was a Dilbert cartoon on the business page, where some computer guy was saying “blah, blah, blah, cloud, blah, blah, blah, cloud, blah, blah, blah, platform”. It’s what this has turned into with “rhetoric”.

  15. hortonpeak says:

    Since words have no meaning or consequence why are you all and me trying to influence each other with words.

  16. Parkland says:

    Are you going to go on a killing spree? If not, you’re sane, and it makes no difference, does it? Of course words have meaning, and no matter what your lefty web site told you to write here to sound cute and intelligent, only whacked out nut cases do what this kid did. Political rhetoric is as old as mankind. The left’s attack on political dissent, cloaked as concern over the Tuscon shooting, is despicable.

  17. tommy98466 says:

    Nice try Jeff. You sound reasonable but your intent is showing. It was ABC, NBC, CBS, Media Matters, MSNBC, Huffungton Post and all of the other liberal rags who blamed Sarah Palin, Rush, Coulter, etc. They are the ones who start blaming. But its the left that really causes all of the turmoil. The political rally the was masked as a memorial was pathetic. The AZ University president had t-shirts made for people to wear. What’s up with that? Of course the AZ U pres. & the idiot sheriff of Pima County are liberals and party hacks that saw an opportunity. This is really pathetic. Remember Emanuals quote “don’t ever let a tragedy go to waste.” Simple liberal politics. Puke.

  18. hortonpeak says:

    Parkland, I presume your kinds words are aimed at me. If not, I extend my apologies. That said, if they are, why such antagonism? I sense a bit of anger but then words do not stir folks — do they.

  19. hortonpeak says:

    Due to internet lag, I also sense a bit of anger from tommy. If words have meaning, then it applies to all sides. Either they do or don’t. Think about it.

  20. LOL, silly liberals still can’t accept they are way off base on this. Nice try, so what if Palin decided to fight back? She is right, you are wrong. Maybe you think she should have been classier, and not risen to your lying, baiting attempts to somehow “libel” her with this crazy mans actions. And maybe she should have. But its her call whether to call you liberal idiots liberal idiots or not. So, apologize, recognize, and open your eyes.

  21. hortonpeak says:

    Take a cleansing breath TMell and start over.

  22. For the love of god. Another lefty letter blaming the right, and another set of back and forth he said she said comments. The left ignores the rhetoric they spew, and blames the right. The right ignores the rhetoric they spew and blames the left. It is the same thing over and over, just like The Twilight Zone episode.

    It is too bad America is destroying itself from within. But we will never change because each side has the “he started it first” mentality.

    Have a good night.

  23. hortonpeak says:

    Oh, I surrender TMell you win. I so admit it. Yes I am ridiculous and small minded and have the incapacity to feel that Beck, Palin, Hannity, O’Reilly have no responsibility for what they say. Yes, yes they have no responsibility. Your wonderfully written words have swayed me. Yes, yes words have meaning. Thank you, thank you for guiding towards the light. God bless you. Cheers numb nuts.

  24. hortonpeak says:

    Bravo WAMTD. And a good night to you also.

  25. “continue to baffle me. ”

    Of course…

  26. hortonpeak says:

    Parkland, gee, seems my words – which we all know do not mean anything – stirred you up even more. Eagerly awaiting your next enlightened broadside. Cheers.

  27. The Left Sucks – period. Nuf-Sed…………………………

  28. geanderson2001 says:

    Palin missed a great opportunity? Move On.org did also. Anybody that thinks Sara has a chance to be the GOP nominee is hopelessly addicted to the proffered Kool-Aid. She is a good pseudo target until the GOP provides us with an excellent choice (I’m hoping). I, personally, am hoping for Romney; or, a suitable equivalent. Give me someone with business experience (at least), so they can help us dig out of this never ending tax & spend destruction.

  29. Parkland, the sales of guns have tripled, particularly the Glock, after this shooting. I wouldn’t assume that it is only the tea party “patriots” arming up. Your rhetoric is vitriolic and antagonistic and you may reap what you sow. I hope there is no more violence, but the a-holes who talk about second amendment rights are bullies and may well be surprised when they are treated as such and when true patriots defend themselves if need be.

    Also, the statements that Palin, Beck, Rush etc have nothing to do with the increase in right-wing violence is utter b.s. Even this guy was influenced, he targetted a jewish politician, it was not random, much of his crazy talk is similar to the rot spewed by the “cut the head off the snake” libertarians who refuse to pay taxes etc. The Ron Paul’s of the world contributed to this conspiracy believer who wanted to make a name for himself. I bet he won’t be found legally insane, he is just another me me me self-centered a-hole who doesn’t care about the welfare of others.

  30. Isn’t it interesting that incidents that happened between 4 months and a year ago suddenly become urgently critical?

    Why didn’t anyone get their panties in a wad at the time these so-called inflamatory acts were done? If the ‘target’ political map was so obviously bad, how come nobody noticed or cared when it was put up on the website?

    Here’s a hint – today’s whining rhetoric is steaming BS.

  31. pgroup- Giffords complained about the crosshairs by Palin, the audio of her talking about it has been all over the news. The use of the crosshairs was HUGE news on many new sites back then, just not Fox Noise apparently. or you would have seen it. Also complained about was Glenda Beck pretending to poison Pelosi (picking on old ladies, big man….) and the tea party people spitting on Clyburn and on and on, was very much complained about. Palin and the turkeys being slaughtered behind her….making fun of animal cruelty and so on and on

  32. mattersnot1 says:

    How ironic for the use of words having meaning. This is the question the Tucson shooter asked his Congresswoman and she refused to answer.
    His question as reported: “If words have no meaning, than why do we have government?” (government translated, We are a Nation of Laws)
    Of course words have meaning, but we must interpret the meaning by the context in which they are used.
    Words taken out of context skew the meaning of the words.

  33. if words and images did not work we would have no advertising, no copycat phenomena, no study of semantics, semiotics.

    propagander works- ask holocaust survivors and the shamed german descendants of the perps.

  34. mattersnot1 says:

    If people would take the chip off their shoulder, be comfortable in their own skin and stop worrying about what the other guy has, this would be a much better world.

  35. mattersnot-

    hear, hear.

  36. FreeAmerica says:

    Didn’t know the libs were so thin skinned?

    If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen….or in other words..

    You can always change the station or walk away

  37. blakeshouse says:

    What it comes down to is the fact that the socialist/ neo marxist agenda is being totally rejected by the nation and the loons are scared and frustrated. The idiot sherriff of pima conty Dupnik and that uber liberal Paul Krugman started spouting their swill before the names of the victims were known. It took mere hours for the rest of the idiots to join the chorus
    It has become very apparent that rational people on both sides of the aisle abhor the lies and outright slander being thrown around. There are still some that continue to spew the venom in hopes that something will stick and slow the spiral down the toilet bowl this anti american agenda is experiencing. It would be funny as well as pathetic if it weren’t for the innocent lives lost being denigrated by the crap. Emanuel’s mantra of never let a tragedy go to waste is alive and well in lib land

  38. Back to the specific topic of the thread. Comments from Republican/Right wing operatives suggest that it is not just the “thin-skinned” Liberals and Jewish groups that felt that Palin’s comments were inappropriate for someone who has aspirations for the White House.

    The gist of the comments were that she really should not have made her “suffering” the focus of her speech – she should have said that, of course she never intended any harm to anyone and then got off the subject of Palin and got back to the people who were shot and their families.

  39. Did you seriously make this statement earlier in the thread bBoy?

    “Perhaps some have tried to make a causative connection but I haven’t seen it.”

    Say it isn’t so.

    Mr. Lieurance, the only thing terribly wrong with your letter is that you fail to acknowledge the hateful, homicidal expulsions coming from folks on the left, and don’t ask me to go find some because it’s all been done and those who read thoroughly are well aware of this.

    As for Palin’s response, I was disappointed in her choices to be sure. I hope she doesn’t run for office. I appreciate what she did to shake some folks out of their stupor in recent years, but I don’t think she’s president material, and honestly, I’m pretty tired wincing when I see that she’s going to be on TV–for fear of what she might say or what will follow the appearance.

  40. Roncella says:

    After reading the posts on this letter by Jeff L. I’d say President Obama the great healer has failed miserably.

    The Liberals go right on making false charges without any proof whats so ever, against Conservatives. When the Conservatives defend their positions, the liberals attack them for being defendsive and not accepting responsibility for the murders in arizona.

    Sheriff Dubnik is the best example of this, within hours of the shootings by an insane shooter, he was giving press conferences blaming talk radio, and
    conservatives for this mentally sick persons actions, without any proof at all.

    Dubnik was familar with the shooter. He had compaints from the college and his own police records involving the shooter, yet he never requested a mental evaluation be done on the shooter, Why Not ?

    the Liberals should stop with the false charges against Conservatives without having any proof to back up their charges ans assumptions.

  41. You’re almost a week to late with this revelation of yours, Roncella.

    Last Saturday, when the news of these shootings emerged, most everyone feared that this was politically motivated. That the victims were at a Democrat’s get together drew the conclusion that the shooter would be a right wing extremist. Fortunately, and to the satisfaction of most rational people, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    I understand that you are offended that your side was initially singled out, but, even you cannot deny that you feared the worst when the story broke.

    That was last Saturday. This is six days later and you still cannot let go of your anger, long after most rational people have come to realize that we all dodged a bullet, this time.

    If I apologize to you, Roncella, will you, then, be able to let go of your anger?

  42. homicidal expulsions coming from folks on the left

    Examples please.

    And, as a pre-emptive, calling someone the “Worst Person in the World” isn’t a homicidal expulsion.

  43. theogsters says:

    Well written, Jeff. I have nothing to add.

  44. Roncella, perhaps you missed the thread where I asked about your comment when you repeat some of the accusations by the right that the sheriff is to blame: “Roncella, I have watched the Fox interview with the sheriff and two others. I know he made several statements. In none that I have seen did he say “right wing” extremists were the cause. He did not say liberal or conservative or name a political party. Would you point me to an interview you are relying on, along with the other righties who accuse him of doing so. ”

    I also looked over all of the articles on Fox to see where people might have got the idea that the sheriff should have known about a police record. I also read a detailed account on NYT that was much clearer. Fox got it right, but used the term “police” to mean both campus police and local police and neglected to mention that almost all of the contact with “police” was with campus police, which records are not shared with the county officials and do not get into any database.

    Loughner had one arrest for juvenile possession of alcohol and another for possession of drug paraphenalia. Neither was adjudicated or followed up and would not have disqualified for gun ownership. All of the rest of the contacts with regular police were made by Loughner as a victim or perceived victim of crime.

    Why the attempt to paint the sheriff as the person to blame here? I just don’t understand unless you are using the unfair blame tactics you yourself are complaining about

  45. Roncella says:

    Polago, my post this morning, (8:56am) was referring to the letter as written by Jeff l. and some of the posters on this site.

    Maybe you need a second cup of coffee to help you wake up this morning.

  46. Roncella says:

    Tuddo, From everything I have heard and read the College Loughner attended had 3 or 4 official reports of class disruption with his teacher and other students.

    He was expelled and told he could not return without first completing a mental evaluation testing. No follow up was done by the college or anyone else that had run ins with loughner.

    The town dubnik is the sheriff in also had been called to the Loughers home a few times, and Loughner had been caught with drugs in his car.

    This has all been reported on the major cable news outlets Tuddo.

    It was also reported that he built an alter with a human skull and other items in his back yard.

    My question is, why wasn’t a Mental Evualation ordered for this troubled mixed up insane man by Dubnik ?

  47. As much as you abhor the idea that many, right and left, first thought that this tragedy was politically motivated, Roncella, you now seem to want to go to great length to falsely pin this on the Pima County sheriff, primarily because he spoke out against vitriolic rhetoric, and you’ve taken it personally.

    Hindsight is 20/20, Roncella. You cannot blame the sheriff for not knowing that this person was as whacked out as he was and was planning to shoot someone.

    You should go back and rethink your position on Obama’s message.

  48. yabetchya says:

    According to the Sonoran Alliance, “Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pime Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation.http://www.dallasblog.

  49. BTW, Did you ever come up with three people who you could not support because they are too far to the right to suite you, Roncella?

  50. Roncella, are you saying that every juvenile that is stopped for possession of drug paraphenelia should have a mental status exam? That is the only charge that the sherriff might have been aware of, and that was by the local police, not the county sheriff’s office. The police were in his home because his house had been vandalized, not because of anything he had done. They had numerous contacts with his family because of complaints of theft, again as victims not as perps.

    The mutiple contacts with campus police are disturbing, but what does that have anything to do with the sheriff? As was pointed out, the campus police do not share any info with the county sheriff unless they rfer the matter for criminal investigation,a nd they did not.. If you want to point fingers, go ahead at the campus police. I think they should have referred him for a mental status exam. But I just don’t get conservative’s insistence that this was somehow the fault of the sheriff.

    Again please point me to an interview where the sheriff called out conservatives since I have seen three of his interviews and he didn’t do it on any of the three. Megan certainly misinterpreted him and went right for the jugular defending conservatives and Palin when he didn’t even mention them. She just assumed he was talking about them. You must have some basis for your accusations.

  51. Not playing the “prove it” game today bBoy. There have been ample examples posted here and elsewhere and you know it.

    I can’t say that I thought the shooting was politically motivated when I first heard about it Polago, but what I did wince when I realized the victim had a “D” by her name because I figured all heck would break loose in an attempt to turn this into a GOP-bash.

    Would it have been the same had she been a Republican? Both sides are culpable in looking for crap to lay at the feet of the opponent I think. Finding new sources of mud to sling these days is a pasttime of many.

    Here’s a thought, though many of you will no doubt find it faulty…but it seems to me the mud-slingers on the right are more overt and blunt while those on the left are better at cloaking their animosity with sarcastic humor.

    It’s a bit like the difference between punching someone and poisoning their drinking water. Both things are intended to inflict damage but the latter gives the poisoner a chance to get away without being identified.

  52. yabetchya, I followed all the links on your accusation that the sheriff had received info on death threats from Loughner and found that it is just a bunch of lies by conservatives. Your link is linked to the website for Sonoran Alliance “Arizona Politics for Conservatives” . They had a guest comment from a blogger who runs the blog “the chollajumps”. In the Sonoran website article and and on his blog the commenter makes the accusation without any factual evidence that the sheriff had been receiving info on death threats and that they did nothing about it.

    One of the commenters on the blog shared a link with the official statement from the sheriff’s department debunking this allegation. The sheriff’s department has opened its records to journalists and has shared all contacts with Loughner. The NYT says there is no prior record of direct death threats known to the sheriff’s office and this allegation is totally false.

  53. sozo, you say the difference is that the mud slingers on the right do it overtly while those on the left do it with sarcastic humor. I think mud slinging is one thing and is part of our election cycle and discourse. However, making up lies, like those repeated by the right about the sheriff is off the chart and intolerable, especially when it is done by people in positions of power and responsibility.

    Also, Tea Party supporters are very vocal in their insistence that the Constitution allows armed insurrection against legitimately elected officials if people disagree with decisions they make. Even Congress members from the right make statements about their colleagues as being the “enemy” of the people and make statements that encourage violence. That is more than metaphor. That is a call for armed resistance to our government. I find that intolerable and a dangerous proposition for the future of our country.

  54. I believe our president referred to opponents as “the enemy” as well or am I mistaken.?

    Look, my notions about what’s best for this country notwithstanding, I find some of the far right big mouths disgusting, just as I find Michael Moore, Keith Olberman, Bill Maher and that nasty little Girafalo (sp?) chick disgusting.

    To suggest that republicans or conservatives in general wish ill will on anyone is just ignorant and it plays into the stuff that keeps these fires burning.

    And Dupnik stepped in it without any help from anyone. The minute he said he would not enforce the law, he revealed himself unworthy of his office.

    This whole thing is getting tedious. Arrogant big-mouths are everywhere, why some of them are right here in these threads, and they come from red and blue states alike.

  55. sozo, OK, I am missing something. When did the sheriff say he would not enforce the law?

  56. Parkland says:

    I have seen a video from a local TV interview just before Arizona voted on their illegal immigration bill of Dupnik stating he would not enforce that law. This is not a right wing blog or third hand, I watched the good sheriff matter of fact say that he would not.

  57. Parkland, in response to your calling me a liar. I am sorry to tell you that too many Tea Partiers have said things that show I am not. I wish I were for our country’s sake. I can’t inagine you have missed the discussions on Fox or the philosophical debates over what the second amendment means. Of course, we’ll start with a candidate who coined a disturbing phrase and her explanation when asked about it.

    Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who’s in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical…And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.However, if it doesn’t there may be a time we need…..” (cut off by interviewer)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7g3y597fs Joyce Kaufmann (a Tea Party organizer and talk show personality) talking to a Tea Party rally “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.”

    The “bullets will work” was the official theme of over 20 Tea Party rallies around the nation before this year’s elections.

    And, I will spare you the hundreds of blogs and other posts that show up when you type “Tea party” and “constitutional right of insurrection” that try to justify insurrection if they disagree with the outcome of elections.

    I think it is one thing to have a very poor metaphor calling to “gather your armies” when railing against the income tax. It is another to have elected Tea Party supporters or candidates talking about using bullets if ballots are insufficient in the change they would like to see. The former is distasteful, the latter borders on treason.

    Some more thoughtful right-wing supporters make a distinction between “revolution”, which is the rising up against a government that is not legally constituted and does not abide by the constitution, and “insurrection”, which is illegal under federal law. However, it is clear from many Tea Partiers that they think that it is OK to have a revolution against a government that is duly elected by the people and are passing laws that will be determined by the Supreme Court as constitutional or not. That is insurrection, and has never been defended by Jefferson or anyone.

  58. Folks, sorry, I am not up to date. Rush Limbaugh repeated all of those fake and phony charges against the sheriff so they must be true. That’s why the righties are so intent upon blaming the sheriff for the shootings because Rush said so. He even repeats the debunked theory that the sheriff’s department had repeated calls about the shooter making threats and ignored them. And now all of the posters on here quote Limbaugh. True journalism is hit with another blow and America is dumbed down even further.

  59. But you do now have the news report about Dupnik’s remarks that he would not enforce the immigration law, right tuddo?

    I am not reinforcing anything Limbaugh has done or said; I have not tuned him in and I’m not interested in his take on it frankly.

    As I said, this sherriff has demonstrated a very political bias all on his own without any help from RW commentators. Of is that “common taters?” :0)

  60. Roncella says:

    Tuddo, I guess we should realize that your alot smarter and more accurate than Rush Limbaugh.

    He only has millions of listeners who listen to his Radio show daily. He is on the air for three hours without guests.

    Yes, attack the messenger, thats what its all about.

    Sara Palin tries to defend herself from being blamed for some sicko in Arizona shooting up twenty people, and lo and behold she gets attacked for defending herself from the bias, mean, unfair, attacks.

    If only Sheriff Dubnik, Democrat would have stuck to the facts and not brought in his personal feelings about what happened and why it happened alot of this back and forth would never have occured.

  61. Parkland says:

    tuddo, you’re a liar, and an embellisher.

    you said, “Tea Party supporters are very vocal in their insistence that the Constitution allows armed insurrection against legitimately elected officials if people disagree with decisions they make.”

    Your Angle quote: “And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny.”

    Sort of a big difference, don’t you think, liar?

    Joyce Kaufmann also spoke of “tyranny” in her video, didn’t she, liar.

    Disagreeing with a politician, and opposing tyranny, are two very different animals. You’re a liar, and you’re intentionally peddling and encouraging hatred. People like you are a disease to decent society.

  62. Geanderson; Bush II and Cheney were millionaire businessman and look what they did to the country.

    Parkland: What is tuddo wrong about: That the Constitution allows for armed insurrection against the legitimately elected government, or that tea baggers believe that it does?

    Parkland: What the Sheriff Dupnik said was his department would be busy enforcing laws that helped keep people in Pima County safe.

  63. Parkland they both talked about taking out legitimately elected government. If you look at the Tea Party sites you will see the same language used. Angle talked about the “Harry Reid problem” as a supportive reason for using guns. Harry Reid was a duly elected official acting in his constitutional authority. That is not tyrrany by any stretch of the imagination. Kaufmann talked about using bullets if the results of the next election were unsatisfactory. Again that is insurrection against a constitutional government. You are ignoring reality if you think people don’t equate the Obama administration with tyrrany. It is a constitutionally elected government by the people, and that, by definition is not tyrrany. Tyrrany is a governement thnat is imposing or enforcing unconstitutional provisions against its people against their will (in the case of the USA, by elected representation). We the people voted Obama in and we can vote him out. That is not tyrrany, that is our form of government.

    If one states that it is legitimate to use bullets against tyrrany, and then call the Obama administration or duly elected officials tyrranical, then doesn’t that mean they feel they can take out the administration with guns?

    I am not the one peddling hatred. I do not believe in hating the other party. I do not and have not ever called Bush illegitimate or a tyrant. I have never called for second amendment remedies when my side lost. People who feel they can use guns when their ballots lose are the ones who are the disease in our society.

  64. Parkland, I am not attacking the messenger, I am attacking the message. I was just wondering where the right was getting all of its lies about the sheriff and blaming him for the shootings. I read the transcript of Rush’s show, and there it was. Most of Rush’s listeners will not go to a legitimate journalistic site to see the real information, so they just parrot what he said. So sad.

  65. sozo, I looked at the transcript and one short interview with the sheriff, but have not found anything supportive of his saying he would not enforce laws that were constitutional. He did say that he would be busy enforcing constitutional laws that kep[t people safe. I guess that could be taken as what you claim. If you ahve a more direct quote, it would save me time looking for it.

    Fortunately, no one is enforcing the law in Arizona because the main parts of it has been determined to be unconstitutional. The Supreme Court will ahve the last say, but it hasn’t ruled yet. Enforcing an unconstitutional law is tyrrany, and people would have a legitimate right to stage a revolution against the governor and her administration, wouldn’t they?

  66. “I can’t say that I thought the shooting was politically motivated when I first heard about it Polago, but what I did wince when I realized the victim had a “D” by her name because I figured all heck would break loose in an attempt to turn this into a GOP-bash.”

    And yet, quite the opposite has happened, sozo. Yes, the initial feeling was that this person must have been a political opponent, bent on revenge, but when the dust cleared, there was no evidence to tie this person to either political party, or of having any political motivations. That was days ago. We should be way past that. Reasonable people have seen the light. Your fears were unfounded.

    So, what seems to be the problem?

    Is it that people like Roncella can’t create a comment without using the Pima County Sheriff’s name? After umpteen comments do they no realize that everyone got the point, or are they trying to prove the media correct by perpetuating their vitriolic rhetoric?

    Let’s stop picking this thing to death. It’s over. It’s been over.

  67. Parkland says:

    Don’t really care if a government is legitimately elected or not. Castro was legitimately elected for almost fifty years.

    “.. — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it ..”

    Again, big difference between a tyrannical government and disagreement of policy. You guys are intentionally attempting to stir hatred using the deaths of innocent people as a platform to launch your completely unrelated vile hatred, and I despise each of you and anyone and everyone who plays the same filthy little game.

  68. JudasEscargot says:

    Hmmm…..Parkland sounds like an anarchist.

  69. How do you figure the opposite happened, Polago? Perhaps the bashing hasn’t been directed at the GOP per se, but it certainly seems to be directed at anyone associated with conservative politics and/or candidates.

  70. ItalianSpring says:

    Palin is smoking HOT!!! Not even she can deny her own HOTTNESS.

  71. Criticism should be directed toward vitriolic rhetoric, from both sides, sozo. If the right feels singled out, that may be due to the fact that the target of Saturday’s attack is a Democrat. We should be way past that.

    I take exception to your word “bashing.” We all need to get on the same side of this issue, which is, how are we going to coexist in this great country? Do we want to coexist?

    Are we going to tear our country down from within?

  72. We are not so far apart on this one Polago though I believe that the “far” left is not going to be happy with the president’s movement towards the center these days. I think it is naive to think that the extreme right is more culpable than the extreme left when it comes to spewing of bile.

    Yes, it’s time that all of us stopped encouraging the blatherskites on either end of the spectrum and try to restore civil debate– though you will never convince me that testy rhetoric causes violence.

    Why? Because in the political domain, it’s been going on forever and has been far worse than it is today in the past. Perhaps, though, the internet makes it all just too in our faces nowadays.

  73. bobcat1a says:

    Italianspring, Costco and a number of other vision correction clinics can probably fix that myopia for you. Or were you being facetious?

  74. Roncella says:

    Polago, You are posting and won’t let go of the debate about what the sheriff said and who he was directing his anger at.

    All I was doing was answering your posts and some others who think as you do.

  75. “Polago, You are posting and won’t let go of the debate about what the sheriff said and who he was directing his anger at.”

    “All I was doing was answering your posts and some others who think as you do.”

    As usual you try to place the blame for your comments onto others.

    You’ll never sell that piece of garbage, Roncella. People here can read.

    Roncella says:
    January 14, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    “If only Sheriff Dubnik, Democrat would have stuck to the facts and not brought in his personal feelings about what happened and why it happened alot of this back and forth would never have occured.”

    If only you’d have dropped it days ago, Roncella, ‘alot’ of this back and forth would not have occurred.

  76. In a nutshell, Roncella, what do you think my position is on the subject of that sheriff?

  77. You know, of course, there are more than a few Republicans who are extremely happy that Palin botched this.

  78. Roncella says:

    Polago, Not being a mind reader, I have no idea. However judging by your posts about the Sheriff I would guess you support his statements about what may have caused the insane shooter to go out of control.

    If you actually saw sheriff Dubniks appearence, and listened to his comments about what he felt actually caused the shootings to occur, did you agree with his opinions ?

  79. JudasEscargot says:

    The Sheriff was talking about inflammatory rhetoric months ago. Long before the shooting. His concern was all of the misrepresentation of “illegal immigrants” – false stories about beheadings and the likes.

    Funny…..his political affilitation didn’t come up then.

    Only after he spoke after the shooting, when the Right Wing needed a scapegoat…..

  80. JudasEscargot says:

    beerBoy says:
    January 16, 2011 at 6:02 am
    You know, of course, there are more than a few Republicans who are extremely happy that Palin botched this.

    I wouldn’t doubt that Karl Rove encouraged her.

  81. “Polago, Not being a mind reader, I have no idea. However judging by your posts about the Sheriff I would guess you support his statements about what may have caused the insane shooter to go out of control.”

    Which posts, Roncella?

  82. Roncella says:

    Polago, Do you support the Dubniks remarks at the news conference he held with reporters covered on all the major cable channels, about what he felt may have caused the shooter to go out of control ? Its an easy yes or no question.

  83. Obviously there are no posts to which you refer, Roncella, just more of your baseless accusations and innuendos.

    I haven’t seen those news conferences. I’ve stated my feeling in the matter more than once. Just for you, I’ll do it again.

    Polago says:
    January 12, 2011 at 9:20 am

    “That jump to the conclusion, that this must be a politically motivated act, was totally understandable, sozo, and most of us were relieved when we found out differently.”

    “If you read these comments for content, you have to agree that the right won’t let it go. They want to crucify the left for jumping to the same conclusion that everybody else, including the right, did.”

    “So, the only ones who can end this vile rhetoric is the right.”

    “You are correct (sozo). I am not Dupnic’s defender.

    “His actions are between him and his superiors, which include the citizens of Pima County, Arizona. I read that he’s 75 years old. Maybe it’s time for him to pass the baton and start making his political statements on his own time.”

    Why do you continue to keep this going, Roncella? It was over several days ago?

  84. Roncella says:

    Polago, I was just wondering is that a Yes or No ?

  85. I’m sorry that your comprehension skills are so lacking, Roncella, which explains alot.

    “I am not Dupnic’s defender.”

    Not is a no word, Roncella.

  86. Roncella says:

    Polago, without spliting hairs here, I believe you said Not to being dubniks defender. In your world that is a No to what he said.

    Its sad that dubnik had to inject his own personal biases into the news conference instead of just giving everyone the facts as he knew them and nothing else.

  87. In your world what would “not” have meant, Roncella?

  88. Roncella says:

    Polago, Were you afraid to take a position by using No ?

    Was it the fact that you might actually have had to agree I was right about Dubnik bringing his own bias personal opinions to the press conference, instead of bringing the Facts and Just the Facts ?

  89. My position is clear to the literate amongst us, Roncella. You’re, obviously having difficulty keeping up with this conversation.

    Go back and reread my post, January 16, 2011 at 11:18 am.

    You were wrong, Roncella, to suggest that I had ever posted that I supported his making statements about what may have caused the insane shooter to go out of control.

  90. ItalianSpring says:

    You have myopia if you cannot see Palin’s hottness with your own eyes. She is gorgeous (NO sarcasm you silly libs).

  91. citylies is most convincing when speaking to his desires. Not so much when it gets into politics.

  92. Roncella says:

    Polago, I have never called you names or in any way tried to make you appear illiterate. Lets face it, your beliefs and my beliefs differ in so many ways.

    I doubt we could even agree about the weather.

    Thats just one small example of what makes this country such a great place to live, we all have the same rights and are governed by the same constitution.

  93. This isn’t about beliefs, Roncella. It’s about your tendency to misunderstand and/or misrepresent what is said, either intentionally or unintentionally.

    If it’s unintentional then your ability to comprehend what is written seems limited.

    If it’s intentional, then you are a liar.

  94. Roncella says:

    Polago, Again calling names to a fellow poster who happens to have a different set of beliefs then you, very disappointing and sad.

  95. And yet again, Roncella, the point is missed.

    I’m perfectly willing and able to have a descent conversation with you where we can express our differing beliefs. This cannot happen if you refuse to grasp the point at hand.

  96. menopaws says:

    Sarah Palin is always the victim………I pray that we never have to see her sitting across a table from some head of state from a foreign country , winking, smiling, doing her “you betcha” and then whining when they refuse to be impressed….America is the land of equal opportunity–the only country in the world where a mindless, ignorant bimbo with a big mouth and a small brain gets considered as a viable Presidential contender………..

  97. LEIURANCE and this other moron, “MENOPAWS” spew the typical liberal garbage!
    Leiurance, it has been PROVEN that the idot in the Arizona shootings had NO political leanings other than being a wacko! Yet you and other liberal hate mongers keep wanting to blame talk radio, conservatives and any one else that will suit your agenda. You had better research your own liberal democratic party and look at their conduct over the past 10 years. Rather embarrassing I believe.
    As for “MENOPAWS,” you are living proof that “mindless, ignorant bimbo’s with a big mouth and a small brain” are alive and well and living in Pierce County!


  99. WE ARE????? OMG!!!!!!! THANKS!!!!!!!

  100. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  101. Such convincing logical analysis coming from froggy. So calm and assuring. He goes right to the heart of the matter.
    Strait jacket anyone?

  102. MarksonofDarwin says:

    ROFLMAO!!!!!!! KTHNXBYE!!!!!!!

  103. froggy: “no political leanings.” Are you sure? I did not know that had been determined through interviews with the shooter. Maybe you are confused with what you think and what reality it.

  104. Sorry. last word is “is.”

  105. ItalianSpring says:

    Palin’s hotness is a fact. Yet another commie-libs cannot face.

  106. I think there should be a local axiom added to Godwin’s Law stating that any thread where a commentator weighs in on the hotness of a politico/media type is officially over.

  107. At least froggy spelled my handle correctly.

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