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PUYALLUP: Attack on citizen was unwarranted

Letter by David J. Couch, Puyallup on Jan. 5, 2011 at 2:08 pm with 41 Comments »
January 5, 2011 2:08 pm

At the end of the Jan. 4 City Council meeting, Mayor Kathy Turner and Councilwoman Nicole Martineau took it upon themselves to reprimand citizens for requesting public information, in particular singling out one citizen: Bob Lord.

Lord, or any citizen, is allowed to request public information through the United States Constitution, Washington State Constitution and the Open Public Meetings Act. The fact that he was chastised for seeking answers is both disturbing and disgraceful. To make it worse, let’s examine who Lord is:

• A graduate of the University of Nebraska with degrees in mechanical engineering, mathematics and physics.

• A decorated Air Force combat fighter pilot who flew 166 missions over Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

• A former Air Force pilot instructor, squadron commander and supervisor of flight operations of 150 aircraft.

• A retired aircraft instructions design engineer, a job he held for 20 years.

If anything, Turner and Martineau should be thanking Lord for his service to our country, not berating him for exercising his rights, rights he risked his life defending.

I say thank you to Lord and all others who have fought for my right to know what my government is doing.

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Leave a comment Comments → 41
  1. drxtreme says:

    Well put Mr Couch! Very Well Put!!!!! and add me as another who agrees 1000% with your statement and with the requests Mr Lord Made…Madam Mayor – Either Apologize and give up the data requested or stand ready to be call out in public for unethical and possible illegal actions!

  2. How bad can this get before they’re out on their ear? Failed governments from local city councils all the way to Washington DC. This is the hippie generation in control now, they have become what they hated. I believe they are worse than anything we had in the 60’s.

    Voters need to wise up and vote them all out, every one. Vote in business owners, working people, outsiders, and people like Bob Lord.

    Enough of the current political class, they are more like Stalin than anything we have seen prior. They really believe they are beyond us commoners. Lets show them how we really feel next November.

  3. Mayor Turner made another one of her unsubstantiated wild remarks claiming a similar recent request for her e-mails cost $8K in city staff time. If she had nothing to hide, it should only cost $1 for the CD ROM and about 10 minutes of her PC to burn the disk.
    Martineau should be ashamed of herself for attacking the open transparency process.
    You notice nobody ever asks for Deputy Mayor Gaga Brouillet’s. How can you copy an “etch a sketch” ?

  4. Publico says:

    Did Mr. Lord follow proper procedure when he made his request?

  5. drxtreme says:

    That is not the point — no elected official has the right to chastise a citizen in an open forum for a request. They Do Have the right to correct them and explain their is a process “IF” they are out of line or “IF” the request was not made correctly. In this case Neither Apply….As she blatantly blasted him for asking for data….Similar to what happened to Mr Knudsen when HE asked for details regarding an item he was to be voting on….They have COMPLETE and TOTAL CONTROL — and THEY ARE NOT GIVING IT UP IN ANY WAY – SHAPE — OR — FORM!!!!!!

  6. PuyallupNow says:

    Yes, Mr. Lord did follow the correct procedure.

    But, either way, he should not be attacked in a public forum.

  7. Yavoll, ve must alvays follow da proper procedures ven making das requests of der govnerment!! Ve must have order at all times!! Kapish?

  8. Publico says:

    Was his request a fishing expedition or some sort of veiled threat that the person whose emails he wanted to see was doing something improper?
    Was there a good reason behind his request or was it simply something to do to try to embarrass someone?
    You know what a frivolous lawsuit is? Was this similar?

  9. Publico says:

    How many times has he made this kind of request?

  10. JudasEscargot says:

    Publico – you are asking some very good questions, all of which are being avoided.

    I don’t have an ox to gore on this issue as I don’t live in Puyallup, but I’ve never had trouble with getting public records, as long as I used proper channels.

    As to “attacked” – aside from “socialist”, “attacked” is the most misused word in the English language.

    A caller on Ed Schultz Show today said he called Michele Bachmann’s office (his Congressperson) to ask when jobs would start becoming available, since the Congresswoman talked about jobs in her campaign. Her office staff hung up on him.

    Ve dont haf to haf answers to yer qvestions

  11. JudasEscargot says:

    http://cityofpuyallup.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=217

    Well, that didn’t take much. There is a video of Lord attacking the credibility of the city elected ofiicials.

    If anyone thinks that an elected official has to take that kind of malarky and not respond, they’d better get ready to run for office and show us how they can take it.

  12. JudasEscargot says:

    Try watching the video, Pokey. Then you can apologize to Publico.

  13. JudasEscargot says:

    The mayor’s statement after Lord’s rant?

    “Thank you, Mr. Lord”

    It appears that we have a letter writer that has a problem with the truth.

  14. I’m sorry Publico and Judy. My bad. I watched the video and you are right. It appears Mr. Lord is a communist with an evil agenda. Hee Haw!

  15. letsworkitout says:

    I’m listening to this whole session and I have to say this council sounds a few cans short of a six pack. They are so concerned with the terms “at an arms length” in regards to the presentation of utility loans. Lol. Are they always like this? This may turn out to be a new hit “reality” tv show! Do these council members get that most of the public comments are negative towards them?

  16. letsworkitout says:

    I mean, this council member is trying to pick apart an accountant? lol

  17. letsworkitout says:

    Holy cow, this knudsen guy is hilarious. He thinks what happened in the “old days” should still apply today? Is he insane?

  18. letsworkitout says:

    Wow, they have accomplished nothing in the last hour. They for some reason do not understand have a reserve fund. lol. I am glad I don’t live in Puyallup.

  19. letsworkitout says:

    Let me get this straight. This accountant gives them a presentation. Isn’t it up to the council to make their decisions based on his information and anything else THEY research? It is almost as if they are trying to convince him to make a different decision, as if HE is the one making the decision. These guys are coo coo cachoo.

  20. letsworkitout says:

    They have now spent 10 minutes trying to figure out if they are allowed to discuss a tabled issue. wow.

  21. letsworkitout says:

    lol, knudsen says, we don’t want to go down the slippery slope of using bonds to pay off lawsuits. Really? How about don’t do anything stupid to get sued for!!!

  22. harleyrider1 says:

    And yet… the citizens of Puyallup continue to vote these same kind of people back into office, don’t they?

  23. “If anyone thinks that an elected official has to take that kind of malarky and not respond, they’d better get ready to run for office and show us how they can take it. ”

    They can respond, but not by withholding information that is public, and to publicly chastise someone for asking for said information is childish.

    Publico, I beg to differ with your pal Judas; your questions are meaningless in this situation.

    Can you boys spell PUBLIC S-E-R-V-A-N-T?

  24. JudasEscargot says:

    “They can respond, but not by withholding information that is public, and to publicly chastise someone for asking for said information is childish.”

    There was no public chastiing. The only thing public was the memo that Lord himself read aloud in a public meeting, which contained dialog of personal opinon about the request.

    There is also a procedure on public information and if the request isn’t warranted, it can be denied – which obviously it wasn’t because he read it aloud.

    As usual, the gadflies are making things up about government officials.

  25. For those of you who scan through the TNT and respond to random articles without any knowledge of the history or parties involved, I suggest you stick to the topics you know something about. Mr. Lord has been requesting info following city protocol for the last 5 years at least and knows the system better than any city staff or councelor. He is given carbon copies of his requests which are to take 2 weeks and follows up on them after months of not receiving any response from the city. See ya later pardner! Hee Haw

  26. freakwater says:

    You forgot to mention star of ‘Hawaii Five-Oh”

  27. chip98404 says:

    I do not live in Puyallup so I am not “tuned in” to the politics there, nor am I acquainted with Mr. Lord, but in all cases, the government employees who serve us, whether elected, appointed or hired, should be courteous to the citizens they serve, regardless of circumstance. That does not mean that they should violate rules or laws, or accede to outrageous or harassing demands, but they should deal with them in a professional and courteous manner. If the Mayor did not do that, she was in the wrong and should apologize or be censured for her behavior. There is enough disrespect in our society without our public servants setting a bad example.

  28. JudasEscargot says:

    Lord is demanding personal access to email ON COMPUTERS, not printed copies. That requires substantial labor time to monitor him (you can’t turn anyone loose on a computer…..even the most ignorant know that).

    If you watch the end of the video, you’ll see there was no “attack” on Lord. One councilperson lauded his lifetime accomplishments (as if THAT has something to do with the issue) and said “his name shouldn’t be mentioned”. Hey Councilman!! That is a bell that can’t be unrung. Lord personally addressed the council and introduced himself.

    Uh….Josey…..try being civil, they might not take you for a crackpot that is going to uzi the session one of these days.

    This letter is not correct as per the video of the meeting. You have your right to your opinion but to to you reality.

  29. letsworkitout says:

    I think it would be naive to believe that this council does not have some sort of power control issues.

  30. The soap opera continues. Knutsen is despised by 5 of his 6 peers on the council. Lord is viewed by them as his personal attack dog. That is why they slow roll him on access to public documents (just as they did Knutsen).
    The paranoids and ADD suffererors on the council dont like the idea of the public seeing their e-mails despite the law. What should be a simple data dump onto a two buck CD is maneuvered into a high price scam to scare off the public. They claim each e-mail has to be printed out, reviewed for sensitivity, scanned and then encoded onto a disc. Cost 15 cents a page. That is a lot of pages.
    Turner, Deputy Mayor Gaga and ADD Martineau will all be gone soon. But they intend to cause grief and leave their skid marks in their final year of office.

  31. JudasEscargot says:

    “letsworkitout says:
    January 6, 2011 at 8:37 am
    I think it would be naive to believe that this council does not have some sort of power control issues.”

    I remember how much access George Bush provided to the public. What a difference a political philosophy makes. How many emails were trashed?

  32. JudasEscargot says:

    “• A decorated Air Force combat fighter pilot who flew 166 missions over Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam during the Vietnam War. ”

    Anyone remember the trashing of John Kerry and Max Clelland – both decorated vets of Nam?

    That was OK. But question Lord on his intent of tying up the city computers and you’re terrible.

  33. JudasEscargot says:

    “The Bush White House e-mail controversy surfaced in 2007, during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an e-mail server not controlled by the federal government. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act.[1] Over 5 million e-mails may have been lost or deleted.[2][3] Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove lost emails, leading to damaging allegations.[4] In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted.[5]

    I remember how up in arms the Conservatives were about this….NOT

  34. letsworkitout says:

    Hey there, I didn’t say anything about emails or Bush. I just said this council has serious power control issues. I don’t see how anyone can think differently after observing them. Stick to the content of my posts, don’t hijack them.

  35. JudasEscargot says:

    I DID compare this to the Bush Administration emails, because I see it as an issue of selective “enforcement” (if there is such a thing from a civilian).

    This is politically motivated, false and a waste of the taxpayer’s money.

  36. letsworkitout says:

    I just said to stick to the content of my post.

  37. redneckbuck says:

    Crazy old white people in Puyallup…..real glad I live in the boonies!

  38. commoncents says:

    I heard Ms. Turner and Ms. Martineau’s “attack” and some people need to examine the definition of the word. I’ve seen harsher words used in kindergarten classes. That being said….these guys have more issues than this public records request. They clearly are more interested in battling each other than working to get things done.

  39. JudasEscargot says:

    thank you, common.

  40. beerBoy says:

    The word “attack” was not used by the letter writer. It was the TNT headline editor who chose that word.

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