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NUKES: U.S. follows in footsteps of fallen empires

Letter by Dory Myers, Lakebay on Dec. 23, 2010 at 1:14 pm with 43 Comments »
December 23, 2010 2:26 pm

Re: “Who’s guarding the nukes at Kitsap-Bangor?” (editorial, 12-21).

“The real world,” according to the editorial and reader responses, declares that we have no choice but to follow the path of military might, weapons of mass destruction, domination and world conquest, war and all the death and destruction that follows in its wake.

Vast empires have been built on the subjugation and exploitation of peoples and their resources. These empires also self-destruct. Empires wax and wane. They overextend and cannot sustain the enormous economic cost of their endeavors.

This is a picture of “the real world” that the U. S. has chosen, modeling itself on fallen empires of the past.

Fact: The U.S. has 737 military bases in 130 countries.

Fact: The cost of wars, unpaid for in the past and present, equals trillions of dollars that could be used to help people.

Fact: Mutually Assured Destruction, established as U.S. foreign policy during the Cold War, has failed to provide a safer, more secure world.

So, what of the five peace activists, the Disarm Now Plowshares 5, who chose a different path to world conflict? Are they quirky, quacky, unrealistic idealists? I submit that they aren’t. Their nonviolent peaceful actions at Bangor carry the vision of a better tomorrow to future generations. Thousands, perhaps millions of people worldwide, choose to carry the banner of peace for all of us.

We all have choices.

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Leave a comment Comments → 43
  1. Roncella says:

    dory, Your polyanna thinking is sad and unrealistic. The only reason the Muslim terrorists and others who would do us harm have not struck again is because of our strength and security systems put in place after 9-11.

    You apparently missed your history lesson in school. Read history and you will learn that Communist/terrorists/Dictators only respeck and fear one thing thats Strength and Power.

    Notice how the Muslim Terrorists are so careful with their attempts to blow up our planes, and times aquare, etc. The only reason for that is that they fear retribution from our bombers to their country.

    Dory if not for the United States what other country would protect the free world as we know it, certainly not spain or france or england or italy or greece, norway etc.

    Take a trip to North Korea, Iran, Seria, Russia, China and try and get in and out of those countries, but be very careful, and you’ll be very grateful to come back to America.

  2. For ‘the Muslim terrorists’ it is much better to be seen as ‘jihadist freedom fighters’ that to be seen as invaders.

  3. blakeshouse says:

    This is the result of the indoctrination going on in the public schools. The scariest part is that folks like Dory ACTUALLY believe this tripe!!!!

  4. harleyrider1 says:

    Dory,
    How can you stand to live in a country like this? You need to move somewhere that demonstrates your values and beliefs. Why would you spend the rest of your life in such a warring nation?
    Certainly you can find a better one to live in.

  5. blakeshouse says:

    Dory,
    How can you stand to live in a country like this? You need to move somewhere that demonstrates your values and beliefs. Why would you spend the rest of your life in such a warring nation?
    Certainly you can find a better one to live in.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2010/12/23/choices-for-war-or-peace/#ixzz192GIbAoE

    One way tickets out of the country will even be paid fro by a collection taken up by AMERICANS!!!!!

  6. ron – other than wiping out every country where Islamic terrorists have been known to function (Germany, Spain, Denmark, the UK, US…..) how will nukes be effective against them?

    Just like a carpenter with only one tool in his tool box……sometimes a 16 pound maul just isn’t the right tool.

  7. m9078jk3 says:

    “So, what of the five peace activists, the Disarm Now Plowshares 5, who chose a different path to world conflict? Are they quirky, quacky, unrealistic idealists?”
    Yes,they are unrealistic idealists.

    those that beat their swords into ploughshares will plow for those that did not (Unknown Author)

    “Fact: Mutually Assured Destruction, established as U.S. foreign policy during the Cold War, has failed to provide a safer, more secure world.”

    False-The concept of Mutual Assured Destruction kept the United States safe from being annihilated by the Soviet Union in a first strike attack by a aggressive communistic totalitarian state bent on world domination during the 1960’s.If the United States had completely disarmed it’s nuclear force deterrence during that period, it would be absolutely certain that the United States would have been obliterated out of existence with nuclear and biological weapon attacks.You would not be writing your opinion today as you likely would not exist.

    The problem with nuclear weapons in recent times is that of horizontal proliferation of these device such as with rogue nations as North Korea which today and recently threatens such attacks against South Korea and the United States with these dangerous instruments of warfare.

    Disarming the United States of nuclear weaponry does not help maintain peace if other nations and aggressive entities enter into the nuclear club of ownership.Disarming now would only invite an nuclear attack upon this country.

    “Thousands, perhaps millions of people worldwide, choose to carry the banner of peace for all of us”
    Perhaps so but there are 7 billion people on this planet and several billion would chose the banner of aggressive war instead.You have been out voted.

  8. Dory,

    The stupid have a hard time with other points of view. They would rather suggest that you go elsewhere, somewhere that represents your values. Why should they leave? It’s AMERICA! There is NO ROOM for other opinions! They have been doing so well screwing things up! See, right wing tea bagging propagandists are the dominant force on the TNT party line.

    So to all of you right wing bible thumping flag waving liars that refuse to learn or live the values you claim to revere: thank you. I laugh every day at the lack of understanding, awareness, and education that you demonstrate each about every single topic imaginable. Thank you. I need the laugh and you make it so easy.

    Warmly, Emoo

  9. Those who laugh today may be weeping tomorrow.

  10. Sozo, I laugh at you till I weep all of the time.

  11. False-The concept of Mutual Assured Destruction kept the United States safe from being annihilated by the Soviet Union in a first strike attack by a aggressive communistic totalitarian state bent on world domination during the 1960’s.

    That is what is known as circular logic: supporting a premise (MAD was the only way to prevent the USSR from destroying us) by restating the original premise (MAD was only thing that prevented the USSR from destroying us).

    While there is evidence to suggest that maybe MAD was effective. What m(numbers)jk states is a conclusion – an opinion – not fact.

    It should be noted that, since the US was the only nation that had actually dropped the Bomb on a civilian population, the Soviet Union probably has(had) a stronger case for The concept of Mutual Assured Destruction kept the USSR safe from being annihilated by the US in a first strike attack by a aggressive capitalistic totalitarian state bent on world domination during the 1960’s.

    It also should be noted that it was START I, not Reagan’s ‘evil empire” rhetoric and demands to “tear down this wall” that allowed Gorbachev to deal with the hard-liners in his Party who greatly feared the US’ military strength and first strike possibilities, and start dismantling the Soviet State.

  12. History shows a rise of power and influence then an inevitable decline. No Empire has lasted forever.

    Yes we are in decline – diversity (standing for all values and cultures but really not standing for anything) and entitlement programs may be the root cause of ours.

    Rome really wasn’t Rome anymore once the gates were opened for the barbarians – and we have our own diversions too as football has replaced the games in the arena.

    250 years by some reckoning is what the great empires lasted. If we last until 2026 I’ll be surprised.

  13. madmike272 says:

    Dory, Dory, Dory, what color is the sky in your world?

  14. m9078jk3 says:

    From the reign of Soviet Premiere Sergei Nikitich Khrushchev and intelligence from Oleg Vladimirovich Penkovsky (Agent Hero) the Soviet Union indeed had plans for invasion of Western Europe and possible strikes against mainland USA and through the 1950’s have developed the worlds first Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles for offensive purposes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Penkovsky
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-7_Semyorka
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

    Some interesting BBC docudramas on this are
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Secrets
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race_(TV_series)
    They contain some minor factual errors but essentially inform the viewer.
    There are also lots of historical documents and books which back up my opinion.

    Yes, what I do state is an opinion just like if one has everyone disarmed in a country such as Poland in 1939 Nazi Germany would be more apt to invade quicker.To note the Soviet Union in a non aggression pact with Nazi Germany also invaded Poland.

    The Soviet Union had a Anthrax arsenal that produced over 4,000 times the quantity ever produced by the U.S. at Fort Detrick.It would have been their biological weaponry capability that would have been even more of a threat.

    What Dory Myers stated about the Policy of Mutual Assured Destruction is also an opinion too and NOT a fact.At least my opinions have some historical facts that back them up along with common sense.

    Tell me if the United States had no armed forces do you honestly believe the “Peaceful” Soviet Union would have left us alone and wouldn’t have given other countries like Western Germany any aggression.
    I scoff at that notion just as I scoff at the peaceniks and religious types who were deservedly in NAZI concentration camps.Deservedly because peace without strength and deterrence is a cookbook for failure.

  15. freakwater says:

    Since World War III never occurred during the Cold War it could be argued that M.A.D was a policy that worked. However, nukes are of absolutely no use against terrorists or even rogue states. We could easily get by with a nuclear arsenal of maybe 50 warheads and dismantle the rest.

    Good letter, Dory.

  16. Roncella says:

    Freakwater. Iran and North Korea two very unstable countries, one wants to destroy Israel, wipe it off the map, the other wants to bomb South Korea, along with the 30 to 40 thousand Americans stationed there.

    Your vision of peace would never work. The only way to deal with these extremely unstable countries is by keeping America’s defenses strong.

    Terrorists have learned that America will invade their home country and bomb the heck out of it, they understand more than you give them credit for.

  17. freakwater says:

    Roncella,

    If you think we couldn’t take out NK and Iran with 50 nukes or fewer, than you hold a very low opinion of the military in which I serve. In fact, we could *easily* eliminate those regimes with non-nuclear weapons.

    Incidentally, despite what Glenn Beck and Fox News is telling you Iran is not unstable. Not in the least. They have a fully functioning government, military, and economy.

    What terrorists home countries have we invaded lately? Iran? North Korea? Al Qaeda is in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen. Haven’t seen any invasions there. We did invade Iraq but no terrorists were hanging around Baghdad. By definition, terrorists don’t *have* home countries; they are non-state actors.

  18. Iran does not want to wipe Israel off the map.

    The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, “The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,”

    While it could be argued that it isn’t much difference, It is also easily argued that he was putting forth his belief that Israel’s imperialist, zionist government must be replaced by an Israeli government that is more cooperative with the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors.

  19. If one wishes to know just how well MAD worked, look at the number of nations who use the AK-47 Assault Rifle.

    While the US stayed fixated on Nuclear Weapons and the Fulda Gap, the USSR and Red China were busy nation building using Peoples War 101 and did a damn fine job of taking over (or at least controlling) large parts of the earth.

  20. Parkland says:

    The letter writer is naive. As the old saying goes, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

    The people that broke into the Bangor sub base are criminals and should be treated no differently than common burglars.

  21. Lisa : “By your logic, I could say this rock keeps tigers away.”
    Homer: “Oh, how does it work.”
    Lisa: “It doesn’t work. It’s just a stupid rock… But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?”
    Homer: “Lisa, I want to buy your rock.”

  22. ItalianSpring says:

    Classic lib thinking by the writer. Suitable for a museum where things should be remembered but for the purpose of not repeating them.

  23. Roncella says:

    Freakwater, I am always amazed at the statement there were absolutley no terrorists in Iraq before we invaded the country. Many Bush haters have made this charge.

    Let see there were terrorists in Afg., Pak., Iran, Saudi Arabia, England, Spain, U.S. but not one terrorist was in Iraq, unbelieveable.

    your charge that the U.S. could easily invade North Korea or Iran and win, you are wrong on both counts. North Korea has over a 1 million man army, along with nuclear weapons, and Iran would be near impossible to invade without a tremendous loss of life for our troops and the iranian people. Iran is very close to having a nuclear capability.

  24. dankuykendall says:

    Having a nuclear capability and a delivery system are 2 different things. What would our motive be in destroying either NK or Iran? The land would be useless for MANY years and depending on how many were used all the people would be dead. By everyone being dead, less American soldiers would be killed or injured directly, but fallout enters the atmosphere and travels everywhere. Waste of time to nuke anyone.

  25. pazzo242 says:

    Beerboy stated: “It should be noted that, since the US was the only nation that had actually dropped the Bomb on a civilian population”
    Once again the liberals want to blame the USA for actions they felt necessary due to actions by an imperialistic empire bent on world domination. The Japanese had several opportunities to avoid that incident (which included its unproked attack on Pearl Harbor) but THEY chose to place their civilian population in harms way.

    Beerboy stated: “the Soviet Union probably has(had) a stronger case for The concept of Mutual Assured Destruction kept the USSR safe from being annihilated by the US in a first strike attack by a aggressive capitalistic totalitarian state bent on world domination during the 1960’s.”
    Really…are you that naïve? We had several opportunities to strike the USSR, starting with the Cuban Missile Crisis but never acted on it. We had every right to bomb the living ba-gee-bees out of them in Cuba but instead we chose to use the Monroe Doctrine, a non-violent method to remove the missiles that were being based so close to the USA by the Soviet Union. Why did the USSR back off, because they were as afraid of us as we were of them—-that was a GOOD thing. Mutual fear is OK and that is exactly why we need to keep our arsenal of weapons, all of them.

    beerBoy says: “Iran does not want to wipe Israel off the map.”
    Please wake up. Once Iran gets its nuke arsenal working to the degree necessary their first strike will be Israel. If you don’t believe that then you truly are naïve. Even the IRNA (Islamic Republic News Agency) has reported: The president (Ahmadinejad) then said: “And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism,” and he also quoted Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran’s Islamic revolution, who said that Israel “must be wiped out from the map of the world.”. (CNN World 10/27/2005)

  26. pazzo242 says:

    freakwater says: “What terrorists home countries have we invaded lately? Iran? North Korea? Al Qaeda is in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen. Haven’t seen any invasions there”

    We invaded Afghanistan because (as so many forget) because they refused our legitimate request to surrender al Qaeda terrorist that were based there and attacked our country. President Bush gave many warnings to the Afghan government but they refused to cooperate and then paid the price. The countries you mention have not been able to launch a strike on the US, so we have no need to invade.

  27. pazzo242 says:

    Dory–so many bloggers on this thread want you to move to another country–though I think you are truly looking through rose colored glasses you have a right to your opinion. That is the beauty of this country.

  28. pazzo – just because you believe it doesn’t mean it’s true nor logical.

  29. pazzo242 says:

    Beerboy: I documented my statements with facts so to your response..its not a belief its a fact. However I will tell you that you are welcome to your opinion and that is all it is.

  30. 1) rationalizations of why the decision to drop the Bomb do not change the fact that the US is the only nation that made that decision.

    2) Citing the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Monroe Doctrine does not negate my claim that, due to the fact that the US was/is the only nation that actually dropped the Bomb in war provided the USSR with historic reason to be concerned about the US’ willingness to drop the Bomb on them.

    3) Again – you are parsing the Iran president’s words (or rather, the translations of those words) and then using guilt by association to try to divine his motives. You also are ignoring the reality that in Iran the Clerics hold far more power than the President.

    Your “facts” are, in actuality, opinion and bias.

  31. spotted1 says:

    Regardless of these five individuals reason for doing what they did, they still broke the law. The cut through the wire, trespassed on a military installation, and were heading towards the storage facilities of the nuclear warheads, which are under armed guard.

    It does not matter the reason, they broke the law and should be in jail.

    The debate of nuclear weapons is ongoing. They are probably not the best thing to have lying around. But here in the US, at least there is a system of checks and balances that may not exist in other places around the world.

  32. Roncella says:

    Piazzo, Liberal thinking and understanding of World events is disappointing to many Conservatives.

    Liberals see the World in rose colored glasses. The libs actually believe that If the U.S. would just disarm and destroy all its Nuclear weapons now, all the agressive Communist Countries and Dictators around the World would follow the U.S. example and destry all of their Nuclear weapons.

    The world would then be a peaceful place for all, Rose Colored Glasses.

  33. ron – instead of trying to tell us something you have no knowledge of (what libs actually believe) why don’t you just deal with facts and rhetoric?

    All living Secretaries of State were strongly in favor of START – so was Kissinger.

    Yes, there are idealists out there – one extreme are the ultra-pacifists, another extreme are the neo-cons with their utopian vision of Pax Americana. Both are not pragmatic in their views.

  34. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, I don’t know of any liberals in Politics or anywhere that want America to retain its Nuclear capability over the World and stay strong.

    I maybe wrong on this, but I don’t ever recall a liberal making statements about building Americas defense systems up, as a deterent.

    If we back up, some years back dems. had a few conservative democrats who were very pro-military spending, most of them are gone.

  35. pazzo242 says:

    Beerboy–
    Item 1) Liberals just won’t let something go that happened 65 years ago. The US has made its apologies and have invested trillions of dollars to make Japan the economic power it is today. But to this date the Japanese have NEVER apologize for its attack and aggressions that brought us into the war. I love Japan and lived there for 4 years and traveled the entire country. They are over it, why aren’t you?

    Item 2) The Soviets were ready and willing to nuke us or they wouldn’t have tried to place ballistic missiles in Cuba. We averted that with the actions a very liberal president took. Let us also keep in mind that Kennedy was ready to attack if the Soviets refused to withdraw. Good for him!

    Item 3) I didn’t paraphrase anything, quite the contrary. I quoted the Islamic news source and the liberal media CNN (“Communist” News Network). Those aren’t my words they are the words of the leaders of Iran and Ahmadinejad’s reiteration of the clerics and his own desires. You can twist it anyway you want but the quote is exactly how it was written–see for yourself, I gave you the source to go to.

  36. the liberal media CNN (“Communist” News Network)

    ROTFLMAO. I suppose that is an example of your “facts” too.

  37. First_Lefty says:

    Somehow or another, Switzerland remains neutral in the fray.

    Probably because they put their money to work in other ways.

    For all the nukes we have, 20plus “terrorists” brought the US to its knees on 9/11/01 and keeps us there.

  38. Novelist3 says:

    Regardless of left or right issues…
    The fact that nuclear weapons are rattled so quickly by any nation is a terrifying thought. I honestly don’t believe that the vast majority of people on the planet, let alone posters here, realize just what kind of a danger even a “small” stockpile of modern nuclear weapons poses. We see footage of half-century old nuclear explosions and tests… Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the Nevada desert… but even though the toll was terrible, the damage that those bombs were capable of doesn’t even begin to compare with the pure destructive power just sitting around in stockpiles to this day. Modern fusion-based thermonuclear bombs? They’re thousands of times more powerful. If one were to be dropped on, for example, Hiroshima today, there wouldn’t be anything left, just a deep, deep crater in the earth. These things are doomsday weapons- they shouldn’t be treated as political tools or the playthings of a belligerent government. Left or Right, any nuclear weapons by any nation is a very, very bad thing.

  39. Roncella says:

    First_Lefty, You have used the phase that the Terrorist brought America to its needs on 9-11.

    I would say the Muslim Terrorists who masterminded and carried out 9-11 gave America a wake up call. They were yelling to anyone who would listen that they wanted America destroyed, we just weren’t listening.

    We have made changes and are continuing to make changes to our security in traveling and many other areas of the Government.

    There is a big difference in you saying we were brought to our needs, and we got a nasty wake up call from the Muslims Terrorists.

  40. Roncella says:

    Sorry for the needs instead of knees spelling.

  41. the phase that the Terrorist brought America to its needs on 9-11.

    Sorry for the needs instead of knees spelling.

    Actually, given W’s exhortation for us to all go shopping, needs is probably more accurate than knees but wants is even more accurate.

    Ya know, with magnetic yellow ribbon “decals” that can be removed without leaving any sticky residue and shopping being seen as patriotic duty, the everyday American hasn’t really been asked to sacrifice anything in the GWOT except getting groped at the airport.

  42. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, Your so right about most Americans not really being affected by the Wars in Afg. and Iraq.

    President Bush should have and President Obama could find ways to include all Americans in the support of our troops who are giving their blood and lifes for this Country. More deaths this year in Afg. as the war heats up there.

    Its especially heart breaking to see these young soldiers dieing and has to be a terrible situation for their families to cope with.

  43. larsman says:

    Lefty sez – “Somehow or another, Switzerland remains neutral in the fray.”
    Gotta love our Lefty
    Geography / topography lesson – Switzerland is a mountainous land-locked
    country that has been bypassed by everyone from Hitler, to the Grand Vizier and pretty much early 3 rd century BC after the price Hannibal payed for his fractional success.
    Main reason in the last century most notably is the Swiss government’s requirement for the head-of-household to maintain defensive armament (including fully automatic rifles) in operational status.
    Sure, they have Zurich banks…and nice watches too, but they are small, nestled and very well armed in a personal way. Or should they go back to habergeons because they are “nicer” than AR-15’s based on your “logic”?

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