Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

MILITARY: Get rid of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’

Letter by Gennell Sam, Lakewood on Dec. 15, 2010 at 1:23 pm with 61 Comments »
December 15, 2010 2:35 pm

I have been a military dependent more than 40 years, and I personally know there have been gays and lesbians who have served in the military for many years before being discovered. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is an antiquated failure. Sexual orientation has no bearing on a person’s ability to serve in the military.

The U.S. military needs the best and the brightest soldiers, and “don’t ask, don’t tell” is currently limiting our nation’s skilled service members. In fact, denying enlistment to patriotic Americans and terminating serving members based on sexual orientation threatens military readiness and national security while simultaneously putting American soldiers fighting overseas at risk.

It’s time to repeal this policy.

Leave a comment Comments → 61
  1. platypus1 says:

    No kidding. My father and grandfather were both career military. They knew men and women who were gay & lesbian, some in committed relationships with other soldiers. As long as they did their job well, no one gave a darn who they had sexual relations with. My parents were good friends with a gay couple at one posting many years ago.

    For those homophobes that freak out about getting hit on or seen nekkid in the barracks by a gay or lesbian soldier, trust me, you aren’t that interesting to anyone except yourself.

  2. bobcat1a says:

    Platypus, you will never unhate the haters with reason.

  3. upsidedownflag says:

    Some times reason is at odds with being PC.

  4. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Only the ignorant & inexperienced regarding the impact of gays in the military would support such a policy! The real answer is to prohibit gays in the military under any criteria – keep the social experimentation to the civilian environment – do not degrade our military!!

    Be advised, the US Navy is current putting career heterosexual personnel out of the military service who have had consensual sex and we want to allow openly gay personnel to serve – not on my watch!!!

  5. Gennell, we are almost there. It is once again up to the US Senate and with the stand alone nature of the legislation this time they might get the 60 to stop debate and have a simple majority vote. Everyone needs to remember who it is that stands in the way even if it passes, John McCain, rapidly becoming an embarrassment to the US Navy, for one.

  6. Piggie says: “Be advised, the US Navy is current putting career heterosexual personnel out of the military service who have had consensual sex and we want to allow openly gay personnel to serve – not on my watch!!!”

    Example and source please.

  7. Piggie is probably referring to Sailors getting booted out for fraternization, which does happen fairly regularly.

  8. DADT works just fine – that’s the lavender mafia’s real complaint about it. They want it gone so they can harass the chain of command with phony discrimination grievances.

    However, it will be a good thing if it goes because then the rainbow boys can be cashiered out. Repeal will remove all limitations on investigations and it will also prevent them from getting past the recruiting office.

    All of the smart ones commenting have read the text of the bill, I presume. Therefore, you already know that even if the bill passes and is signed by Barry Bigears, it will never take effect. You did know that, didn’t you?

    You didn’t know that this is all a scam? Oh, I’m sorry to have to break it to you but, yeah, they’re lying to you.

    In order for DADT repeal to take effect (if passed and signed into law), an impossible thing has to happen. The military has to certify that all necessary procedural regulations are in place AND that military cohesion and unit readiness will NOT be negatively affected AND a report certifying that has been accomplished must be presented to each of the congressional defense committees.

    Well, guess who is going to be in charge of the House congressional committees for the next two years? That’s right, boys and girls, your friendly Republicans are.

    Now you don’t really believe that any report submitted to a House committee after 1/5/2011 is going to do anything but sit in the committee inbox for two years, do you?

    Good, I’m glad you all see the reality. Which is that NOBODY but a minute number of loudmouth rabble rousers wants to repeal DADT. Why not? Putting aside the truth that most people just don’t approve of certain behaviors, the number of people who would leave the military if DADT was repealed would cripple manpower needs which would force a return to the draft.

    There are not enough stupid politicians to vote to restore the draft. So therefore repeal of DADT cannot be done without negative impact and the bill passed today in the House says that is the end of it.

    Pass the bill – don’t pass the bill – it doesn’t matter. DADT is not going anywhere. Good luck with the loony judge ruling that a statute that has been in place almost two decades is unconstitutional when that same statute has already been determined to be constitutional in numerous court martial proceedings over the years.

    Now can all you rainbow people just shut up and go away? Please?

  9. pgroup – long posts only serve to reveal your complete lack of logic.

    And…..this is America…..you can’t make us “just shut up and go away” any more than we can make you return the favor.

  10. pazzo242 says:

    I consider myself a die-hard conservative but on this issue I just can’t agree with bloggers the likes of “pgroup” and “the3rdpigshouse”.

    I spent just over 12 months in Vietnam on the Mekong Delta serving in the Navy on PBR’s. Just before I was to rotate home I was wounded. I can tell you when the corpsman came to assist me asking his sexual orientation was the last thing on my mind. Also when ever I was in a firefight again sexual orientation was never an issue. That all said, it doesn’t matter whether or not you are “gay” or “straight”, if you are a good serviceman or service woman, that is all that matters. The issue was just that we wanted to survive and I am sure the gay serviceman had as much a survival instinct as i did.

    Gays have the right to gainful employment, just the same as heterosexuals. If that happens to be the military…fine.

    Do you think we didn’t know gays were serving…….think again. That was long before DADT. They lied to get in so they could serve the country that treated them as second class citizens. If that isn’t commitment and patriotism, I don’t know what is.

    This issue should not be cut along political lines. But it is cut along a bigoted line and nothing more.

  11. JudasEscargot says:

    “Be advised, the US Navy is current putting career heterosexual personnel out of the military service who have had consensual sex and we want to allow openly gay personnel to serve – not on my watch!!! ”

    What a crock of hogwash. A good friend of mine and his wife met and married while in the Navy. BOTH OF THEM.

    “Not on my watch”…….nice Freudian.

  12. I’m sorry that it’s necessary to annoy readers with facts. This is only talked about because of a few ‘look-at-me’ personalities.

    To our friend who served in Vietnam, ask yourself why you never heard this sort of ‘debate’ while you were serving. That’s the real question. In other words, what were you doing wrong or right. You say it wasn’t on your mind at the time – then why is it on anyone’s mind now?

    I can tell you this much – what I posted is exactly what will happen. Hopefully, the noise will die down after the new Congresscritters take over. BYW, I don’t live in a fantasy world. I know that improper behavior won’t go away. I just want it to stop advertising.

  13. “hogwash” nice Freudian.

  14. JudasEscargot says:

    Polago – you’ve baffled me.

    Pgroup – improper behavior is paying too much attention to what people do in their private lives. You’re right. It will never go away.

  15. theogsters says:

    Sexual orientation shouldn’t be an issue, in the military or out — and in most developed countries, it isn’t. Why is the U.S. obsessed over it? Probably a carryover from our (long outmoded) Puritan roots.

  16. sumner402 says:

    “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal….”

    You either support and believe that or you don’t.
    Democrats do, republican/conservative/tea whiners do not.

  17. I don’t think sexual orientation should be an issue ANYWHERE. What happens behind closed doors should stay that way!

    I dont give a tinkers hoot what any of YOU are doing and it’s none of your dang business what I am doing!

    This country has become a population of peeping toms and exhibitionists! It seems like half the people want to know what everyone else is doing and the other half feels some need to tell what they are doing! The whole thing is ridiculous.

  18. the3rdpigshouse says:

    FYI – for those who wish to confirm that the Navy is firing heterosexuals for consensual sex – check the November edition of Navy Times! Fraternization has never been permitted however, we are now to condone abnormal deviant behavior from a small minority openly between same sex individuals as more normal than sex between consenting adults (discounting the fraternization rules)??!! Not on my watch!!!

  19. I’ve been active duty and retired for almost 50 years now.
    I have never known of one gay person in the military. Not one.

    The chance of being treated by a gay corpsman during the Vietnam War really didn’t matter back then. AIDS wasn’t discovered in the military until Mar of 1982.

    For people that seem to think it doesn’t matter what people are doing behind closed doors next time in for a major operation it is almost guaranteed you will be asked if you want to bank blood, and the doctor will discuss the chances of your getting a transfusion. It really does matter what people are doing behind closed doors!

    For me I can’t just forgive and forget. I will never forget the innocent children that required blood transfusions and were given the death penalty when they came up HIV positive. All because of what went on behind closed doors in bath houses, etc.

  20. Might I Suggest the Movies ‘Men of Honor” .

  21. BlaineCGarver says:

    sumner402 says:
    December 16, 2010 at 8:51 am
    “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal….”

    You either support and believe that or you don’t.
    Democrats do, republican/conservative/tea whiners do not.

    Guess what, MalContent….Everyone believes that…it’s just that after creation, some people give themselves over to the dark side and normal people don’t agree with that.

  22. sumner402 says:

    For me I can’t just forgive and forget. I will never forget the innocent children that required blood transfusions and were given the death penalty when they came up HIV positive.

    Yep, Saint ronnie the raygun could have ans should have funded the research earlier but since he thought as you do, that HIV was gods punishment for being gay he let it happen.
    Think of all those that your attitude caused to die.

  23. Private? Thanks for the laugh. That’s exactly what I want from all of them and that’s what DADT helps them accomplish – keeping their aberrant behavior to themselves.

    Time for a pop quiz: if it was really kept private, how would I know about it?

    Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you at the exit door.

  24. Roncella says:

    sumner, You must have missed it when Bushes policy ( A Republican) gave more money to assist with aids in africa than any previous President, that would include Obama also. .

  25. When pgroup uses the phrase, “aberrant behavior,” we learn a lot about him or her. Not much hope there. The same for BCG and “normal.” And piggie’s “abnormal deviant.”
    So much to learn and so little willingness.

  26. ron – that African AIDs W policy was known as ABC – anything but condoms – worked well for the moral majority but not so much in the prevention of HIV.

  27. sumner402 says:

    Try to keep up roncella, I know your talking points is all you’ve got but…..

  28. “Polago – you’ve baffled me.”

    Referring to the3rdpigshouse’s.post as hogwash was brilliant.

    Was that a Freudian slip, JudasEscargot?

  29. fbergford says:

    Just a quick talley….how many on here that have posted served in the military. Out of those people, who volunteered to join…I’m not talking about the draftees (nothing against you draftees, you did not have a choice…I volunteered and did have a choice).

    I spent eight proud years in the Army. Not once did I cross paths with a gay servicemember. Not once…what does that tell me…that DADT works as it is suppose to. To have gay people who want to serve in the armed forces stay quiet about their sexual preference. So that means they can’t be loud and proud waving rainbow flags around. They have to sacrafice some of their personal freedoms just like all the other troops when you sign that dotted line! And if they can’t follow DADT, that puts a big question mark on my ability to trust them with my life if they can’t follow a simple order like that.

  30. fbergford

    Your logic:

    Any service man who cannot follow the rules and restrictions (even if it means accepting a post-DADT military) puts a big question mark on your ability to trust them with your life.

  31. fbergford……i tend to agree with you….of course its about all the support youll get around here with all these non serving military “experts” (USAF 72-78)

  32. you must know by now “fbergford” these characters on these threads couldnt or wouldnt comprehend the term “order” anyway! Probably a concept that is far to regimented and offensive to such free thinkers! HAAA! ;)

  33. of course what do I know….my time in the 70s preceded DADT anyway so I spose Im not qualified to address this anyway. :D

  34. fbergford says:

    hahaha no your good DC! Thank you for your service!

    Beerboy…right before I deployed to OIF 2 I got into a little bit of trouble while “mobing up”. I disobeyed a direct order by sneaking off base and getting drunk with some of my civilian friends. I got caught and busted. I received an field grade article 15 which came from my Battalion Commander. My Platoon Sgt came up to me and told me he doesn’t trust me by his side because I cannot follow a simple order and when poop hits the fan over there, how can he trust me with his life if I cannot follow a simple order. I don’t expect you to understand, in fact I don’t expect a lot of people who have not served to understand. You never will until you put the uniform on. And to answer your question beerboy yes you are correct on my logic. Being in the military is not a game. You don’t get to hit the reset button. If you lose, you are coming home in a flag draped box..your life is over because you are dead. Once again, I don’t expect anyone who has not served to understand, because you can’t…

  35. bobcat1a says:

    3PH, just curious. Who appointed you to the “watch?” And when it DOES happen on your watch are you going to do “the honorable thing?” Not holding my breath.

  36. fbergford – exactly my point.

  37. sumner402 says:

    I don’t think he gets it Beerboy.

  38. I’ll try again.

    When (not if) DADT is repealed any and all service members who, due to their own homophobia, do not support their orders should be discharged dishonorably as they can not be trusted.

  39. It is time to repeal this policy. I suggest a return to ” Rocks and Shoals.”

  40. You signed up for three squares and a cot. Thank you for your service.

  41. sumner402 says:

    I told you he didn’t get it.

  42. fbergford says:

    I didn’t sign up for three square and a cot beerboy. If I wanted that I should have stayed in college at WSU…I was provided that at my frat. I enlisted because I saw planes fly into the world trade towers in NY. I felt compelled to to something than to just sit around and mope. That’s why I enlisted. What did you do? And sumner, I do get that you are a super liberal who blames anything and everything on the republican party. Oh it’s cloudy and cold outside, it’s Bush’s fault for that. They spent way too much. Oh it’s going to rain, those dang republicans!

    I get that you two are for the repeal of DADT with no military experience. Which is cool, not everyone has enough juevos to enlist and serve our country. I understand you may be lacking in physical proweress, may not have the mental toughness, or are just plane self-fish to think about anything more than yourself. I understand that, and I also understand that we will not agree on this topic.

  43. sumner402 says:

    You ‘get’ very little, very little at all, little man.

  44. EqualityNow says:

    My family believes that it is time to repeal of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell law. This law is unfair, and it diminishes the hard work of good people. Moreover, this law has led to over 13,500 men and women losing their jobs in the Armed Forces. In this day and age, it is ridiculous to fire someone just because of who they love. Overall, this law amounts to nothing but discrimination, and this law also prevents many qualified men and women from serving their country. It makes no sense to prevent good workers from doing a job.

    During these times, we need every patriotic soldier, including gay and lesbian people. In America, we have always striven to make this country a place of equality, and the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell law prevents people from being equal. Every citizen should be equal in this country. Everyone.

  45. sumner402 says:

    Looks like the vote will happen this weekend and they have the votes to pass it.
    That is a good thing.

  46. fberg –

    oh…..you’re a youngster.

  47. But……as long as you asked……in response to the run-up to the Iraq invasion I took to protesting in Rush Limbaugh’s home town in southeastern Missouri when “men” would drive by and spit tobacco at women in our group before cowardly driving off. Or yelling homophobic or racist slogans at us before they escaped in their cars.

    I wrote letters to the editor in a newspaper that published my address. I posted these on my office door and my colleagues would sheepishly scurry up to me to thank me for taking stand when they were too afraid to.

    I knew that the invasion was based upon lies. I knew that it had absolutely nothing with 9/11 and, in fact, would divert us from actually catching and punishing the actual perpetrators of the heinous act. So I took a stand.

    Just like I did when in 1975. They stopped registering us 18 year olds for the draft but there was no way in hell I was going to volunteer to be cannon fodder in a war that was justified by a lie (Tonkin Gulf).

    You think that enlisting proves that you have more courage than anyone who didn’t – if you need that to feel like you are a man, so be it. But, if you were really a man you wouldn’t need to make these virtual claims and you sure as hell wouldn’t be threatened by the idea of homosexuals serving openly.

  48. bobcat1a says:

    If you’ve never been in the military you can’t understand whatever but if you once were a student you are an instant expert on what is needed to fix everything wrong with education. If you’ve never worked for the government you still know how to do it better than the governor. Just like all the people around here who are smarter than our college and professional coaches. People should know their limitations.

  49. Repealed.

    Get over it or get out.

  50. So that whole story about not being able to trust anyone who didn’t follow orders*

    *with one exception for homophobes.

    Your logic……suck it up dude.

  51. I wonder how much money will not be wasted in sensitivity training sessions for troops. Lots I’m sure.

  52. “Just like I did when in 1975. They stopped registering us 18 year olds for the draft but there was no way in hell I was going to volunteer to be cannon fodder in a war that was justified by a lie (Tonkin Gulf).”

    Uh, I hate to break this news to you Beerboy, but the draft in this country ended with our involvement in the Vietnam War in 1973. If you were 18 in 1975, you had no worries about getting called up, or becoming “cannon fodder”

    And that also reminds me once again of the misguided lie people fall for about how the United States “lost” the Vietnam war….once again, we pulled out HONORABLY, after gradually turning the while mess over to the South. The South was overrun two years later, in part because our congress reneged on continued support in THEIR efforts.

    It just amazes me that as big a part of our lives that conflict was, how little we remember.

  53. Also reminds me of the guy I saw recently wearing a leather motorcycle jacket that proudly displayed “Vietnam Veteran 1975-1978″…I guess such a thing might impress those who dont know, but it sure raises eyebrows on those of us who do. ;)

  54. Dale – The Fall of Saigon was in 75, shortly after my 18th birthday.

    As an oblivious teen I didn’t realize that the draft ended in ’73. Clearly my memory of the chronology of the time wasn’t completely accurate – I misremembered that they were still holding the draft two years later and that the war went on for a couple more years.

    I went to the post office to register for the draft after my 18th birthday in ’75. I was told to hold off because there was an announcement that was going to come out a little later that year about the end of the requirement to register.

    Officially, there was no war, no foreign threat at the time.

  55. sumner402 says:

    I wonder how much money will not be wasted in sensitivity training sessions for troops.

    How much have we wasted over the last 17 years investigating and discharging troops?
    I’ll bet lots.

  56. sumner402 says:

    Looks like the sun is still going to rise in the East, despite this bill passing.

  57. I wonder how much money will not be wasted in sensitivity training sessions for troops.

    Given the numbers of suicides, homeless, depression, jobless amongst Vets it is pretty clear that there hasn’t been a lot of money “wasted” on easing our servicemen and women back into civilian society. There is clearly an attitude that sees our troops as disposable commodities. A national disgrace.

  58. Roncella says:

    DC628, The viet nam Mess, was caused by Congress not backing the war in fact not giving the necessary funding to keep South Viet Nam free and safe.

    Note the viet Nam Mess was started by President Johnson/ Democrat and kept going with advice from his Generals, which now we find out was not good advice for Johnson or the troops who served there, and the many thousands who lost their lifes there.

  59. Roncella says:

    beerBoy, The Liberals/Democrats impress me for their never give up attitudes when it comes to their social engineering programs they have guided through the Congress.

    Now they finally got their Don’t ask Don’t tell after many debates and years of pushing it.

    The Liberal/democrats almost got the Dream Act approved, they lost by only 5 votes. The lib/dems will bring that back again and again till it finally gets passed.

    If only Conservatives had leaders in the Congress with the kind of courage and fight to keep pushing for Conservative ideals and programs.

    I must admit the Liberal/dems do gget alot of support form the Lame Stream Media in their

  60. Roncella says:

    continued: desire to get their progams pushed through the Congress.

    Another example, ObamaCare…..

  61. To Roncella: You are 100% correct. That’s why our country is in deep trouble.
    Because of the lib/dems, we have astronomical debt, people who would rather
    sit on their duffs than look for employment, and people like you who are
    probably on the doles.

*
We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0