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TAX CUTS: Social Security cut portends ill to come

Letter by O. T. Clark, Puyallup on Dec. 10, 2010 at 1:30 pm with 91 Comments »
December 10, 2010 2:03 pm

So the President has agreed to extend the Bush tax cuts for another two years. This is in spite of the fact that the national debt is presently 60 percent of the GDP, the national budget spending level is 25 percent of GDP and the national budget revenue is 15 percent of GDP.

How long could your household survive under these conditions?

But then he also proposes to reduce the Social Security withholding from 6.2 to 4.2 percent. Granted, the working man needs every break he can get, but where the hell did that one come from? Especially since Social Security is expected to pay out more in benefits than it receives in payments this year. Not by much, it’s true, but the imbalance does exist and portends worse to come.

We, the taxpayers, brought this situation on ourselves by allowing Congress to buy our votes with entitlement programs. Now its time to pay the piper. Fortunately we have two congressmen, Adam Smith and Jay Inslee, who will be voting no on extending the Bush tax cuts.

We must instill a backbone in Congress to save the country. This means a deluge of letters. One or two won’t cut it. It will take hundreds or thousands. Write to your representatives in Congress now.

I am an octogenarian and depend heavily on that Social Security check. However, I am ready to sacrifice some now rather than suffer greatly when the debacle hits.

Leave a comment Comments → 91
  1. This is spot on. But also contact Senators Murray and Cantwell, because the bad bill is being considered in the Senate first.

  2. Roncella says:

    Its amazing all of a sudden the dems. and establishment republs. are all concerned about the deficit. Social Security checks have been frozen for two years and are not expected to increase for another year.

    Our Rich and happy Congress goes on spending for every program they can get for their states. they are called Ear Marks. They also give themselves and their staffs raises every year.

    Its about time for them to cut their wages and stop with their raises and cut their staffs at least 5 to 10 percent.

    In the mean time the Seniors Medicare is going up and prescription drugs are going up, utilities and taxes are going up along with food prices.

    Congress and President Obama need to stop all the excess spending Now.

  3. At least Nancy and the Dems in the house found a pair and are standing up for their ideals and promises.

  4. fbergford says:

    ZING! Good one xring, not really! Don’t know if you caught my sarcasm there!

  5. Roncella you have your wish, John Boehner has ordered a 5% reduction in congressional staffing, administrative funding, etc… this only applies to the House.

    Senate… well you need to talk to Harry Reed.

  6. O.T., if you had to cut back, what would you cut back on first, your premium subscription to Comcast or your heat? This government needs to cut back on crap like the “stimulus” that created 50 jobs in California at a cost of $2 million each. There is an estimated $100 billion of waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicare annually. Obama’s response to the charge of waste in the “stimulus” program was that it didn’t matter, since spending itself was the issue, not value for the dollar. If half the waste in government were eliminated, there would be no threat to Medicare at all. That’s where you should focus your anger. Continuing to overtax and overspend is not the right answer, for you or anyone else.

  7. roxy, if you know where the waste is, it is your patriotic duty to bring it to the attention of the proper authorities. If you don’t know and are only guessing, then I suggest you pick some other topic to be expert in.

  8. “buy our votes with entitlement programs” …well, some peoples votes. I never knew having to pay 35% of your income to the government was an “entitlement program”.
    Weird.

  9. First_Lefty says:

    “Roncella says:
    December 10, 2010 at 2:25 pm
    Congress and President Obama need to stop all the excess spending Now.”

    Let’s start with reducing defense spending by 50%. Bring all the soldiers home and send them back into the workforce. Oh, sorry. Their jobs have been outsourced to India or China or Vietnam.

    We can’t cut Social Security/Medicare because this letter writer is in favor of it. Of course any other time, the GOP would be saying “if they die, that’s less we have to pay for”

    Maybe if we quit extending tax breaks to millionaires, the old folks can eat something other than Alpo.

    I understand Nalley’s chili is going down in price due to labor savings……

  10. First_Lefty says:

    “I never knew having to pay 35% of your income to the government was an “entitlement program”.”

    There are some people that need better tax accountants. I’m a married empty-nester with average income and my total tax burden – property and income, was about 20% last year.

    For those that don’t know, Social Security is an insurance policy, not a tax.

  11. First_Lefty says:

    “roxey says:
    December 10, 2010 at 4:00 pm
    Publico

    A. The proper authorities know where the waste is, just as they knew about the fraud and abuse in Freddie and Fannie and did nothing.

    B. Stick your suggestion where the sun don’t shine. ”

    Leadership like this is why children turn to gangs for love

  12. First_Lefty says:

    “This government needs to cut back on crap like the “stimulus” that created 50 jobs in California at a cost of $2 million each.”

    Where do they get crap like this?????? Needless to say, Roxey didn’t cite a source.

  13. What part of stupid describes tax-rates in effect since 2003 as a tax cut?

  14. The 35% tax rate Roncella refers to is for income @ $372K and above. True that about a good accountant. Better true that if we simplfy the tax policy.

    Social Security is an insurance program funded by a payroll tax. The government has the authority to tax us. Hence the arguement that the Health Care premiums are now magically a tax.

  15. Thank you nanook, i have been trying to get across to my friends that we are trying to prevent a tax increase… their is no tax cut… well not quite, in the new deal between Obama and the Republican has an extension of some tax credits.

  16. Due to there being no raise in the cost of living,There will be no raises for Seniors Social Security for 2 years.Then I have a feeling, No more raises for another 2 years after that,but somehow there will be money for a congressional pay increase.

  17. Weird, when you collect your “insurance” that you paid for thru a payroll TAX, you’ll now be paying TAX on that TOO.

  18. the3rdpigshouse says:

    The legislation is “bad legislation” and should be revised once the socialist democrats lose control of the House! Additionally, congressional salaries should be reduced 20% until the deficit situation is reversed thru spending cuts!!

  19. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Washington’s ignorant electorate needs to look at the congressional representatives in office and ask yourself if you think you are competently represented – if you believe you are, you know why you are referred to as the “ignorant electorate”!!

  20. 3pig, you do know it is the ‘evil socialists democrats’ in the House (including the ones we ‘ignorant electorate’ voted in) who are opposing this ‘bad legislation’ and it is the ‘Heroic Republicans’ who favor it?

  21. “rr98, would this be the same Boehner who hired K Street Lobbyists to be Chiefs of staff for the incoming tea baggers?”

    yep… he hired a lobbyist for himself, a few of the newbies also hired some now former lobbyist. It is literally a standard job for the Washington, DC crowd. You either worked as a lobbyist or will work as a lobbyist when you are done with office or part of the staff.

    Anything else?

  22. “but somehow there will be money for a congressional pay increase.”

    There were no pay raises for 2010 and there will be no pay raise for 2011.

    Educate yourself.

  23. “Weird, when you collect your “insurance” that you paid for thru a payroll TAX, you’ll now be paying TAX on that TOO.”

    It depends on how much other income you have. My mother-in-law isn’t paying any taxes on her Social Security.

  24. That’s weird x, Obama doesn’t have or didn’t hire former K-street lobbyists for his administration?

    Out of the over 40, The Examiner reported back in Feb. that 3 include IRS General Counsel William Wilkins, a former lobbyist for the Swiss Bankers Association, deputy Defense Secretary William Lynn (who was appointed 10 months after he lobbied for defense contractor Raytheon), and Vice Presidential Chief of Staff Ron Klain (who lobbied for Fannie Mae during the housing boom).

    LOL.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/search/apachesolr_search/obama%20lobbyists

  25. the3rdpigshouse says:

    xring – the only reason the Republicans agreed to the deficit increasing elements in the legislation (social security, inheritance tax, etc) was that their pledge prior to the election was to stop the expiration of the Bush tax cuts – and they have accomplished that!! Remember who still controls the House until next year – hopefully they will eliminate the added deficit items when the Republicans take control of the House. And yes – the ignorant electorate that gave us the current socialist democrat leadership in the House created the inability to get a descent bill thru the House! Don’t shift the blame to the Republicans until they can control the House legislation – if they screw it up they will hear about it!!

  26. “Then I have a feeling, No more raises for another 2 years after that,”

    The cost of living increase depends on the inflation rate for wage earners, CPI_W. If you can do 5 grade math, you can calculate it.

    http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/cola/latestCOLA.html

    http://www.bls.gov/cpi/#tables

    If you believe that there will be no raises in 2012 or 2013, then you are expecting no inflation for wage earners.

  27. “xring – the only reason the Republicans agreed to the deficit increasing elements in the legislation (social security, inheritance tax, etc) was that their pledge prior to the election was to stop the expiration of the Bush tax cuts – and they have accomplished that!!”

    I don’t see any deficit reduction! I don’t see any cuts in spending. So we have more charge an spending.

    If you are a deficit hawk, this has to be giving you heartburn.

  28. First_Lefty says:

    “roxey says:
    December 11, 2010 at 9:44 am
    Lefty, if you know how, search for “stimulus creates 55 job.” You’ll get tons of hits. If you don’t, just remain the ignorant fool that you are.

    BS right wing blogs don’t count.

    Here is what REAL media says:

    September 17, 2010|By David Zahniser, Los Angeles Times
    Two Los Angeles departments have received $111 million in federal stimulus funds yet have created only 55 jobs so far, according to a pair of reports issued Thursday by City Controller Wendy Greuel.

    The reports conclude that the agencies, Public Works and Transportation, moved too slowly in spending the federal money, in part because of the time it takes to secure approval of government contracts. The two agencies plan to create or retain a combined 264 jobs once all the money is spent, according to the reports.

    What was that about ignorant fool??????????

  29. First_Lefty says:

    Oh my!

  30. First_Lefty says:

    “The Examiner’s editorial page is heavily conservative; it is headed by Mark Tapscott, with American Spectator senior editor Quin Hillyer serving as its associate editor. The paper’s national political coverage, which also appears in Examiner papers in Baltimore and San Francisco, was previously headed by Bill Sammon, a former Washington Times reporter who has written several books praising George W. Bush.”

    Don’t be surprised if the Examiner lacks accuracy.

  31. First_Lefty says:

    “thewho says:
    December 10, 2010 at 11:08 pm
    Weird, when you collect your “insurance” that you paid for thru a payroll TAX, you’ll now be paying TAX on that TOO. ”

    My friend, disabled at 50 years old, doesn’t complain about paying taxes on his SSI. Of course, he’s happy to have an income and medical care.

  32. wow, the mature and even-keeled debate today is just amazing!

  33. Oh, well $420,000 per job is a real bargain. If YOU had ever created a job, you’d have a clue that even that figure is wildly extravagent unless it’s for hiring 747 pilots. You, of course would believe the government hype about what it’s GOING to do. Ignorant fool does you more credit than you deserve.

  34. First_Lefty says:

    “If YOU had ever created a job, you’d have a clue”

    I have.

    There’s salaries, benefits, buildings, materials and other related costs of doing business.

    REAL business people know this.

  35. First_Lefty says:

    It’s rather humorous that someone who would defend a person’s right to make as much money as possible and avoid taxes is complaining about job creation costing too much.

    Oh….wait. The Lucky Genetics Club gets richer while the workers should make less. I forgot.

  36. Roncella says:

    First_Lefty The L.A. Times is Real Media ?? Only in your World. Just like the New York Times is real Media in your Liberal World.

    Liberals/dems are very good at social programing, spending, taxing, and taking money from those that work and pay taxes and giving it to those who don’t.

    .

  37. When the government gives money to a group under the gise of a stimulus, tax break, etc… then a cost vs benefit analysis is warrented. It is a measure of the effectiveness of the money. The cost per job created is a valid measure (taking into account other expenses as you state). The lower that number the better, isn’t that the goal?

    Again, it is your money period. You are under no obligation to send more money to WA (or Olympia) than is necessary to support the mandated and other services we expect from government. It is governments obligation to provide these services at the least possible cost.

  38. Lefty, two questions:

    How much did YOU spend to create a job?

    Are you still in business?

  39. Roncella says:

    First_Lefty, Your name suits your beliefs to a tea.

    You would cut the Military by 50%, and bring all those troops home now. What do you think that would do to the rest of the Countries where these troops were stationed.

    You and other libs/progressives would cause stability to be gone in some parts of the World, just so you could dream up some more lib/progressive progams to futher bankrupt America.

    The Military Budget needs reviewing like all the budgets in Washinton D.C, and Washington state need reviewing, and trimming.

    First_Lefty you are living in the most Powerful Country in the World, in case you forgot about that.

    America is freedoms best and last chance to be successful and continue giving millions of folks a great place to live and raise families and own property and prosper.

    The tea party movement has awakened milllions of Americans to what can happen when liberalism takes hold and smothers the life out of freedom and makes Government more and more powerful.

  40. So the selective lobbyist outrage talking point is settled.

  41. sumner402 says:

    Thank you for proving my point valmak.
    Your attacks validate my point very nicely.

  42. redneckbuck says:

    Sumner does not answer questions. He reminds me of 1090AM radio. The just complain about things convinced that the world is one big right wing conspiracy.

  43. You would cut the Military by 50%, and bring all those troops home now. What do you think that would do to the rest of the Countries where these troops were stationed.

    The Okinawans would be delighted to finally have control of their own land rather than having it leased by the Japanese to the Americans.

    Not sure why you think it is the US taxpayers burden to provide a military presence in foreign countries for those countries’ defense.

  44. you are living in the most Powerful Country in the World, in case you forgot about that.

    That’s why the military budget can be cut by half without impacting our DEFENSE capabilities

    America is freedoms best and last chance to be successful and continue giving millions of folks a great place to live and raise families and own property and prosper.

    Nice jingoism, I really would love it if it were true.

  45. Once the U.S.goes into another country,No matter what the reason,there will always be a reason for them to stay there,no matter what it cost the taxpayers to keep the PEACEKEEPERS there!!!!!I have a feeling the troops will be in Iraq and Afghanistan until they are annexed to America.But maybe after they see how high our national debt will rise,they will pass on that dubious honor!

  46. fatuous in educating myself, I find the congretional payraise is automatic, unless the raise is voted down.That is what happened in 2010 and this year.The base salary for the House and Senate is 174,000.00 a year!The leaders make more.By forgoing this years raise,the lawmakers saved the taxpayers about $850,000.00.

  47. First_Lefty says:

    “Roncella says:
    December 11, 2010 at 12:29 pm
    First_Lefty, Your name suits your beliefs to a tea.

    You would cut the Military by 50%, and bring all those troops home now. What do you think that would do to the rest of the Countries where these troops were stationed.

    FIRST Thanks for the compliment. I chose my name. Now the “tea” part is an insult, but I’ll overlook that.

    If we cut our military by 50% we’d still have the most military spending in the world. Right now out military spending is more than all the other countries in the world combines.

    As to “most powerful”…….20 terrorists brought this country to its knees and is still controlling it.

  48. First_Lefty says:

    “velmak says:
    December 11, 2010 at 12:10 pm
    Lefty, two questions:

    How much did YOU spend to create a job?

    Are you still in business? ”

    Two Answers
    1. It varies
    2. Yes

  49. First_Lefty says:

    Hey Ronnie…..

    “suits you to a “t” – is the phrase you are seeking.

  50. First_Lefty says:

    Military spending:

    1 United States – $663,255,000,000
    2 China – $98,800,000,000

    Now, who owes who the most money? Who has the trade advantage?

  51. xring – reread my post and check Bloomberg news for one source (as well as others). He is refering to the House and the areas he controls as House Speaker. He doesn’t need the full House approval for that.

    Xring – The last election was pretty clear to me, stop the excessive spending. I am not raising a red flag as to who they hire since I know it wasn’t ALL their staff for ALL of them. If you think you have a talking point then fine, have fun with that. Check the news, it wasn’t all of them. Second, with those hires they will be watched and I am confident saying the Tea Party will hold them accountable for their promises.

    About the federal/military pay vs income tax – It seemed odd to me that I was literally paying my own salary. If they are exempted then it increases the number of civilian tax payers that are needed to support one federal/military worker. Taxes would be significantly higher and/or the federal/military workforce would have to be significantly reduced. Personally I think all income levels should pay income tax. $10.00 a month as a token minimum.

  52. The last election was pretty clear to me, stop the excessive spending.

    Republican Harold “Hal” Rogers, (aka The Prince of Pork) to chair the House Appropriations Committee.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/10/gop-taps-prince-pork-lead-committee-overseeing-federal-spending/

    You may have thought it was clear. But what was clear is that BOTH “parties” are wings of the Money Party going on.

  53. I agree Hal Rogers was a “curious” pick… and gives me pause to wonder wtf were you thinking with that pick… they know we know it was a curious pick and now… watch the bastard… listen to what he says… more importantly watch what he does and what he supports. (Pretty much goes for all of them by the way)

    I am not going to fault him (or a Democrat either) for making a few crappy deals to move something through but come 11/2012 I will give him (and others) their report card. In the meantime, We the People, need to allow the DC players to play the ballgame and stay involved in the democratic process.

  54. sumner402 says:

    The last election was pretty clear to me, stop the excessive spending.

    Thats not what the last election was about.

  55. I’ll put it another way… Do I know that Hal Rogdger is a pork spending DC douchebag… yep! But Rodgers is part of the GOP team on the field and he was picked by the QB (Boehner) for the starting lineup. If he is weak and the Dems exploit that weakness then he is either on the bench or the GOP will lose the game come 2012.

    Another reason for the Rodgers pick is that he is experienced and knows how to play the game. I wouldn’t put a rookie in there. They would just get chewed up and spit out. There are other players on the House team that are strong in their respective positions.

    I’m watching…

  56. What was it about sumner?

  57. sumner402 says:

    What elections are always about, power and money.
    The GOP set records on spending to win control of Congress, you really think they did that so they can cut the amount of money being funneled to their corp masters?
    I’ll bet you voted for mt hem too didn’t you?
    Didn’t learn from your mistakes the last 30 years? Look at the vast spending the GOP has done, what on earth makes you think they will stop?
    The tea whiners? Please, lemmings are easy to control and that is all the tea whiners have ever been, lemmings.

    Look at the tax cuts, nothing but adding to the debt (spending) and who is in favor of them?
    You guessed it.
    Mention cuts in defense and who goes nuts?
    Yep same people that favor spending more for tax cuts.

    No, it’s about spending (money) but not cutting it. Never has been never will be.

  58. So either xring is willfully ignorant or just obtuse. Obama doesn’t have or didn’t hire former K-street lobbyists for his administration?

    Out of the over 40, The Examiner reported back in Feb. that 3 include IRS General Counsel William Wilkins, a former lobbyist for the Swiss Bankers Association, deputy Defense Secretary William Lynn (who was appointed 10 months after he lobbied for defense contractor Raytheon), and Vice Presidential Chief of Staff Ron Klain (who lobbied for Fannie Mae during the housing boom).

    LOL.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/search/apachesolr_search/obama%20lobbyists

  59. Yes all elections are about power and using that power to control the fiscal purse strings on that we agree.

    For every comment – the GOP has set records… I could also state with credibility – the Democrats has set records… or how about GOP – corporate masters : Dem – union masters. Hence your comment about power and money rings so true. Which master do yo want to serve? Neither I hope.

    The same reason that makes me think the Dems will stop spending… the American people… WE AIN’T GO NO MOE’ MONEY… The Tea Party is a good start, others need to get off their respective a$$es and also make the case for reduced spending.

    First, their is no coming tax cut, it is the current tax rate. The only reason we continue to be in debt is because the idiots in DC refuse to slow down the spending to corresponse to tax revenue. Slow down the spending and we will reduce the deficit.

    Military spending – tell them Robert Gates offered $100b in cuts that will shut them up… well at least for now.

    Your premise – it’s about spending… – works as long as you have an unlimited source of revenue to spend… we don’t the american people are starting to tell them loud and clear.

  60. Roncella says:

    First_Lefty, Having served in the service in a special weapons company many years ago, I can tell you without a doubt America is the most Powerful Country in the World.

    If certain weapons were used in No. Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq and Aft. those wars would have ended immediately, and those countries rebuilt, hopefully with a democratic form of Government.

  61. First_Lefty says:

    Roncella says:
    December 12, 2010 at 9:52 am
    First_Lefty, Having served in the service in a special weapons company many years ago, I can tell you without a doubt America is the most Powerful Country in the World.

    If certain weapons were used in No. Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq and Aft. those wars would have ended immediately, and those countries rebuilt, hopefully with a democratic form of Government.

    Still doesn’t change the fact that 20 terrorist brought this country to its knees and although they are all dead, we are still being held mentally hostage.

    As to “certain weapons”……you want nuclear war????? Remember there are a few other countries that have them now. This isn’t WWII.

    I’m frightened to think that people so willing to push the red button are in that line of the military service. Reminds me of “Crimson Tide”…..

  62. sumner402 says:

    rr98411 I understand what you are saying, and to a point agree but you have to know that what you are claiming isn’t going to happen.
    The right is going to keep spending the way they always have, deficit be damned, they will just do it ‘off the books’ they way they did during the long dark bush years.
    You and the tea whiners are not going to stop them.

    Reality sucks but at some point you have to open your eyes to it.

  63. Roncella says:

    First_lefty, No I’m not for nuclear War. However if we are attacked again, those that attack America should be made to understand not to mess with this Country, unless they want retribution back to their own countries.

    Yes some other Countries do have Nuclear Weapons. I can assure you the Weapons systems America has would more then handle anything others may have now.

    First_lefty, What ever happened to the Dem Party. President Truman had more guts and courage than all the dems. in the current Congress rolled into one have.

    Truman saved alot of lives and sent a message to the World, if you Mess with America you will pay a price.

  64. I am looking at reality… the left and the right both have crappy records of spending. Over the last two years the deficit has double… blah, blah, blah… I know it’s all Bush’s fault, inherit this, two wars that, the worst recession since money was invented, blah, blah, blah.

    My point is that the GOP took a surplus (a GOP congress by the way) and they made it a deficit. The Dems took that deficit and made it worst. Given the choice between one over the other… I am making the call for the GOP right now. The Dems went quite a few dollars too far for me… but then again I knew that was going to happen when Obama was elected.

    The GOP are a bunch of doucebags… the Dems are a bunch of doucebags… the differance, the GOP knows they are doucebags and can get something done. The Dems are sanctimonious doucebags and pretend they are not.

    Where I may be delusional is the continuing positive effect of the Tea Party and their influence on spending. If I am wrong then we all are in trouble, oh yeah, alot of trouble with a hole so deep you may want to purchase a copy of Rosetta Stone for Chinese.

  65. t_w, nice straw man, total and completely off the subject. Now, do you have anything to say about how and who hired all the new staff for the incoming Tea Party Congress people?

    Rocnella, yeah, we could have nuked them all back to the Stone Age.

    Goliath was the most powerful person in the world and look what happened to him.

    Truman sent a message, but I guess Viet Nam never got it and we paid the price, just like we are still paying the price in Afghanistan and Iraq.

  66. sumner402 says:

    I am making the call for the GOP right now.

    Why?
    Considering their history for spending like drunken sailors and telling you not to worry about it, you know “deficits don’t matter” and hiding trillions more in spending, what makes you think they suddenly changed 80 years of lies and deceit?

    As to the Democrats spending, considering the mess the republicans made of the economy, do you really think letting our entire banking industry as well as our auto industry and all that goes with both of them fold up and die would have been a viable choice?
    How big of a mess would we be in right now had we not done the bailouts? Both the TARP (bush) and the auto loans, which are being repaid BTW?

    And you do know that a huge amount of ‘spending’ that you and the GOP give credit to President Obama is in fact the hidden spending of bush the failure being put on the books and shown the light of day right?

    You don’t really believe the ‘tax and spend’ BS do you?

  67. sumner402 says:

    Roncella, please check your calendar, it’s 2010 not 1953.

  68. Roncella says:

    Sumner, Thats it ?? Thats all you can add to the conversation ??

    like I said, what ever happened to the once proud, brave, respectful Democratic Party to move it so far to the extreme left, where it is now ???

  69. 1- “History for spending like drunken sailors…” can be applied to both parties. They need to both go to Debtors Anonymous. I’d like to think this is a point of agreement for all on this discussion board.

    2- A false choice. Nowhere did I make a comment about TARP (Bank Bailout), Auto Bailout, etc… If I have a problem with them is not that they were done but how they were done. GM did go bankrupt, the world did not end, but look who was protected during the auto bailout. That is not quite the way it works per the law. Could of, would of, saved jobs, etc… unless you got a time machine or crystal ball, no one, neither Dem nor GOP can make that claim. It’s a BS claim.

    3- As far as the deficit during the Bush years. In 02 to 04 the deficit shot up to a max of -400b. From 05 to 07 the deficit dropped to @02 levels. In 08 the defict shot back up to @550b. I could be petty and say that the Pelosi/Reed were the respective congressional leaders but the would be partisan for the GOP side of me. Besides Bush signed the documents. As I said, drunken sailors, different bars… but both are fiscal drunks none the less.

    4- No, its actually spend and tax. Congress is notorious for finding new ways to spend your money. Considering the growth of government over the past 50-100 years, how is that concept BS?

    5- The Tea Party serves a purpose. They were fairly effective in getting quite a few of their backed candidates elected. We shall see the Tea Party relevance over the next two years.

    6- Yes, I am pretty smart. Thanks for noticing.

  70. I’m just pointing out your obvious case of selective lobbyist outrage. I mean, you seem to be pretty upset about it on one hand and turn a blind eye on the other… that’s all.

    .
    “Goliath was the most powerful person”… I suppose that depends on your definition.

  71. “I am pretty smart” I have found people who brag about some trait really don’t have the trait in the first place.

    T_W my point was that Boehner and McConnell do not like and do not trust the New Tea Party members and have surrounded and isolated them with trustworthy Republicans who are beholding to Boehner and McConnell rather than to their Congress person.

  72. Ok xring – I am dumba$$… does the same logic apply now?

  73. Why didn’t you just say that in the first place?

    So… what’s your opinion of Obama hiring all those lobbyists??? especially after the “no lobbyists” promise. Really, Obama’s mountain next to “Boehner and McConnell’s” mole hill.

    Bizarre

  74. sumner402 says:

    rr98411, I get it now, you do swallow the GOP propaganda, you do think the tea whiners are valid and real and your really do think that conservatism is the answer even when faced with the fact that conservatism is what got us into this mess and has ruined the country over the last 30 years.

    You and roncella will enjoy each other company, you’re both blinded by partisanship.

  75. Good Morning sumner, I can only guess you disagree with some positions I hold.

    How on this earth you believe I “swallow the GOP propaganda” is a mystery to me in that I clearly said the GOP (as well as the Dems) are doucebags. That doesn’t sound like a compliment to either of them to me.

    I offered some opinions and positions on some of the issues on this board. You agree, fine… you disagree, OK… how about this for a spin…

    The same can be said for both parties and the cherry picking of “facts” with the associated super generalized biased opinions serve to only talk past one another. I could have used my own words to respond as I did using your words but why… it becomes a circle jerk of a conversation. The kneejerk response defending either party is nothing more than an exercise in determining which party is the bigger doucebag. They both are… duh!

    And yes, the Tea Party movement is significant. How that escape you is a mystery to me.

  76. the following didn’t post

    I offered some opinions and positions on some of the issues on this board. You agree, fine… you disagree, OK… how about this for a spin…

    sumner402, I get it now, you do swallow the Dems propaganda, you do think the progressives are valid and real and your really do think that liberalism is the answer even when faced with the fact that liberalism is what got us into this mess and has ruined the country over the last 50 years.

    The same can be said…

  77. Roncella says:

    rr98411, Welccome. When commenting with true leftests and some liberals don’t expect to get much agreement with your point of view.

  78. sumner402 says:

    And roncella when was the last time you agreed with the ‘leftests’?

    In fact when was the last time you offered anything more than platitudes and talking points?

  79. sumner402 says:

    rr98411,

    “the GOP (as well as the Dems) are doucebags”
    doesn’t quite get you off the partisan hook in my book.
    You clearly are a republican, and you clearly always have been. Like many other tea whiners you are not happy with your party but you haven’t the guts to open your eyes to the reality of how it’s not really the republican party that is at fault but rather conservatism that is bring down the country.

    Can you name one conservative principal that has been in place for the last 30 years, and there are many, that has worked?
    Privatization?
    Deregulation?
    Trickle down?
    Tax cuts?
    When has a conservative owned up to and accepted responsibility for their actions and not blamed someone else?
    Offer up some solutions that are not the standard party line.
    (having roncella defend you isn’t helping either)
    Sell me on those and you will have proven your self proclaimed bipartisanship.
    Until then you will be what you are in my eyes, a right wing tea whiner that is still being lead down the primrose path by your media.

  80. My doucebag comment is not to get me off yours and anyones elses hook. It is to provide an accurate position of my view of the major political parties. I am also not out to be partisan. I do have values, beliefs and experiences that have guided my view of the world over the years. They may put me to the right of you but are not meant to be partisan.

    Actually I was raised by New York 60’s liberals. My Uncle gave me a copy of Mao’s red book. (I think I still have it). When I came to WA state, I registered as a Democrat. “clearly republican” you don’t know me. I don’t know what to do with that. If calling me a republican makes you feel better then OK.

    I can’t sell you on anything… no one can… your experiences are your own, your beliefs are your own… hope their working out for you.

    …”by my media” Too funny… I start my day with Morning Joe, flip between local news (13), CNN/MSNBC and FoxNews. Usually on mute until I see a story I am interested in. During the afternoon I have a life and need to get some stuff done but do try to catch Cavuto and Brett Bair. Have been know when I am working out, to switch to Dylan Ratigan, Ed Shultz, and Chris Matthews to catch their spin on the issue of the day. (Today will be the Health Care ruling). OReilly more often than not (unless his ego gets in the way of his logic), back to NBC for the evening News with Brian Williams, keep it on NBC for King.

    Online media include the Huffinton Post, Daily Caller, Politico, Newsbusters, BigGovernment, Daily Beast and the Drudge Report for a glimpse of the various opinion out there. Use to go to Newsvine… you may feel real comfy there. I felt I needed more local news so my presense here on theNewsTribune.

    Wow, you really are able to read and know people really well. You should bottle than and sell it. you can be a private company, the will be currently deregulated, you idea will lead to success and it will trickle down to those that assist you in your endevour (realtor for office space, shipping, marketing/media development, sales associates, you’ll need an administrator to handle you office space, an accountant for the mucho dinero, on and on it goes). Think of all those taxes you will pay across the board and how grateful you will be when Christine and Obama let you keep more of you wealth.

    Good luck with that you fine speciman of an American you.

  81. Roncella, thanks to you too, quite a feisty bunch here, too much fun.

  82. sumner402 says:

    So you have no answers, no solutions and nothing what so ever out side of some mild ad hominm attacks and plenty of blah, blah blah.

    Well thats typical isn’t it?

  83. JudasEscargot says:

    Roncella says:
    December 13, 2010 at 9:16 am
    rr98411, Welccome. When commenting with true leftests and some liberals don’t expect to get much agreement with your point of view.

    Roncella is so caught up in the rhetoric it forgets the reality – the “Founding Fathers” of this country were liberal/leftists, otherwise we’d be part of Canada.

  84. JudasEscargot says:

    rr – did you also forget that the Founding Fathers were liberal/progressive/leftist? We could also examine the socialistic viewpoints of the legendary Jesus of Nazareth.

    You “independents” are leaning so far to the right that you’ve fallen and can’t get up.

  85. aislander says:

    Justin…er…I mean “JudasEscargot” writes: “rr – did you also forget that the Founding Fathers were liberal/progressive/leftist?”

    I wouldn’t call my worst enemy that. How dare you do that to the Founders! WHAT–exactly–is your basis for that allegation?

  86. Roncella says:

    Judas, How did you come up with idea that the Founding Fathers were liberal/progressives/leftest ?

    The Founding Fathers as they debated and wrote the Constitution, were a bunch of very enlightened, intelligent, and politically savey people, which means they could never be lib/progressives or leftests.

  87. fbergford says:

    Roncella, don’t forget about them hating a large intrusive government!

  88. rr98:

    The Wall Street Journal: “Incoming House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) said he WOULD PUSH FOR LEGISLATION early next year that would cut Congress’ budget by 5% as part of Republicans’ efforts to tackle out-of-control federal spending . . .”

    Politico “Incoming Speaker John Boehner said he WILL PROPOSE to cut nearly every office budget by five percent as one of Congress’ first measures next year.”

    Bloomberg: Incoming U.S. House Speaker John Boehner, saying reduced government spending begins at home, PROMISED TO SEEK A 5 percent cut in the chamber’s legislative budget as one of the first steps when Republicans take control next year.

    Need I go on.

  89. What do you know, I believe I have entered “The Twilight Zone”

    :-0

  90. t_w – I was using leading comments to see who would spot the real meaning of the staff stuffing. The case I was making is not one of who hired more, it was how Boehner and McConnell were trying to hog tie the newly elected Tea Party people.

    As for Obama, or anyone hiring lobbyists, like you I find in bizarre and deeply disturbing. But as somebody pointed on another blog stream, that seems to be the natural life cycle of career politicians and public servents.

  91. Rr98411 “does the same logic apply” Yes, you are still claiming to be something we all know you are not.

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