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IRAQ: Let country have our constitution

Letter by Johnny Elesky, Tacoma on Nov. 26, 2010 at 11:01 am with 46 Comments »
November 26, 2010 11:01 am

The think tanks in Washington are continually talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq. Why don’t we simply let them have ours? It was authored by some very intelligent individuals, and It has worked for many decades.

Besides, were not using it anymore.

Leave a comment Comments → 46
  1. aislander says:

    Quite true. The constitution of China is worded very much like our own, but they view theirs as a “living, breathing” document. In other words, it means only what those currently in power want it to–as ours has since we allowed the Supreme Court to take the bit in its teeth…

  2. Idofotos says:

    Yes we should let them use ours God knows we dont use it much anymore

  3. Yeah, and they get our debt to go along with it. I figure it would take them about a week to pass a blanaced budget amendment.

  4. “Think tanks in Washington” Therein lays the single biggest problem we face in Afghanistan and Iraq; the misplaced belief that we must impose our system, views, and culture on other nations. Just like something that works in New York City does not work in Utah, what works for us won’t work for other countries. Freedom means the Afghans and Iraqis should be free to determine the own form of government and laws.

  5. nwcolorist says:

    I agree, xring. One of the reasons our Constitution may work so well is that it was hammered out by people who who knew well the problems, both short and long term, that were specific to our country.

    Interesting thought.

  6. bandit101 says:

    xring – Did you lose your sense of humor somewhere? Do you not see the humor in Mr Elesky’s letter?

  7. With you this time Xring- Last time I checked, Iraq was “predominantly” Muslim.

    That means a problem for the “all men are created equal” part that gives power to our Bill of Rights.

    The word that we don’t have, and Islam does, is “Dhimmi”.

  8. bobcat1a says:

    Why would “all men are created equal” be a problem for Muslims? Besides which, that’s not in our Constitution.

  9. aislander says:

    …but equal protection IS in the 14th Amendment. It’s in sharia…where?

  10. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Electing a neo-marxist as Ptresident with all his communist Czars isn’t doing much for the “Constitution” either!!!

  11. bobcat – The Preamble to the D. of I. is the basis of our later Constitution.

    Do you even know about Dhimmitude?
    Do you know of “Passive-submissive” Infidel sub-status within majority saturation in Islamic countries or do you need to have the relevant surahs quoted to you.
    Here’s a well known fact among the better read (or a little known fact among the not so well read): Islam has never had a reformation (ala Martin Luther 1517).
    Taqqiya as the alternate method of interpretive use, gives the later meaning of a surah the most crediblity.
    Democracy, or representative republicanism will not be compatible with Islam and never will. Turkey has a very high saturation point and the parameters of choices will always fall within classic Islam.
    “H” is not at present a practicing Muslim, but that does not mean he is averse to providing favor to the cause of Islam (his Indonesian address last week) at the embarrassment and neglect of our relationship with Israel.

    Big mistake…Genesis 12, still in effect…

  12. piggie, what a hoot!
    Just how many words do you have in your vocabulary——30 maybe?

  13. Lars, Iraq is, like most muslin countries, a tribal culture where the real power rests not with the masses, but with the heads of the various tribes, clans, and families, and the individual is important mainly in terms or which tribe/clan/family they belong to and the position within the various groups.

  14. Interesting thing about Iraq – prior to kicking Saddam Hussein out of power it was one of the least theocratic nations in the Middle East. – too bad he was such an tyrant.

  15. comment_tayter says:

    Aside from the arrogance of presuming another people of another culture even want our Constitution, and that the tenets therein are alien to the Islamic mindset, if the Constitutional Conventions were being held today we would not come together as a unified nation.

    The level of animosity and antipathy that exists would preclude agreement upon a founding document here in North America. Much of this intransigent behavior is the result of having one’s head firmly lodged in the political echo chamber of one’s choice, and being fed a constant barrage of hyperbolic “bad” news. (Take that last phrase any way you want… it’s true either way).

    As much as the plaint is ridiculed, “Can’t we all just get along?” contains a heartfelt sentiment that ought to be taken more seriously. Getting along with others, and ignoring paid propagandists on talk radio, and their parrots everywhere, is more the beginning of community and a better tomorrow than an endless shouting match.

  16. comment_tayter says:

    One more thing… For better or worse, and probably to the joy of one or two others, and in keeping with my above post, I think that is the last comment that I, Mr. Tayter, will be making.

    Out.

  17. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Publico – when dealing with anti-American leftists, about 30 is all that is required to get the point across!!

  18. WOW. Fantastic observation Johnny. Maybe someday we’ll have a president who will use it again.

  19. BlaineCGarver says:

    Cute and pithy…too bad it’s been a bumper sticker and internet joke for about 8 or ten years……

  20. bBoy,
    “Iraq was one of the least theocratic nations in the Middle East” how true, and why Osama bin lauden and Iran listed Saddam Hussein as one of the little satins that needed to be taken down.

    Lebanon, before it employed due to sectarian violence, was known as the “Switzerland of the East” and Beirut was referred to as the “Pairs of the Middle East”.

  21. X – Iraq is predominantly Sunni (fivers) with the northern provinces being the descendants of the Medes (Kurds) which are Elamic in ancestry.

    Iran is almost exclusively Shia ( twelvers) and is also Elamic in ancestry, and is the major support sponsor of Hezbollah.

    However, those claiming Gaza are of Hamitic ancestry through Mizraim and Cush, having migrated in a geographic counter clockwise circle from the Tigris-Euphrates basin to Egypt to (later called) Carthage(Put or Libya / Algeria) becoming a successful seafaring culture eventually inhabiting Crete, Cyprus and the Lebanese coast also known as Phoenicia.

    But there was never a single nation or kingdom known as Philistine and the term “palestine” was a much later Latin designation of the general geographic region from Pelusia to Lebanon and the Med. coast to Petra and Damascus…

  22. IS, “a president who will use it”, Bush didn’t because it was an inconvenience to his decidership, and Palin and the Teapots can’t because they don’t understand it.

  23. I want a President who will defend and abide by the Constitution, not one who will use it. I don’t think we have had any Presidents who have done that since the end of WWII.

  24. sumner402 says:

    Why would “all men are created equal” be a problem for Muslims?

    It isn’t unless you are a bigot.

  25. sumner402 says:

    Maybe someday we’ll have a president who will use it again.

    We have one now, the last one, your failed hero used copies of it in the restroom and not for reading.

  26. eagle_beak says:

    some ppl add nothing of any importance to the discussion…..as above last 2 posts. why do the far left liberal/progressive/communists have such hostility and are so full of negativity? it is so clear they operate and cope by using projection (what they accuse others of is what THEY actually are) check it out in psych 101.

    matters not to me. i am an independent and like the middle just fine.

    God bless America and help us keep our country free!

  27. sumner402 says:

    some ppl add nothing of any importance to the discussion…..as above last post. why do the far right/tea whiner/conservatives have such hostility and are so full of negativity? it is so clear they operate and cope by using projection (what they accuse others of is what THEY actually are) check it out in psych 101.

    matters not to me. i am an independent and like the middle just fine.

  28. Summner “Why would ‘all men are created equal’ be a problem for Muslims?” Because they do not believe in it. Grossly put Muslins are top dogs (God Chosen), followed by Christian, Jews, and everybody else. And men are superior to women who exist for Man’s pleasure and comfort.

  29. xring

    “Grossly put”

    yep….

    “Grossly put”, Jews believe they are the Chosen People, LDS believe they are the Chosen People, Christians believe they are the only ones to be saved and all others are in the service of Satan…..

    c’mon dude, gross generalizations are…….grossly inaccurate.

  30. BB – some are some of the times, but not this one this time.

    But you are correct in that every religion claims to be God’s children.

  31. aislander says:

    In another thread, beerBoy, you called for a Capitalist Reformation. The mohamedans need one far worse…

  32. Blinkered by bias and bigotry makes one unable to see the gross inaccuracy in one’s claims.

  33. aislander says:

    Nice alliterative epigram there, bB…Have any specific examples you’d like to share?

  34. Actually xring, if you will agree that Israel cannot be a democracy AND a Jewish state unless citizenship is limited by religion and purified through ethnic cleansing, thus making it a theocracy rather than a democracy, then I will concede the point.

    No country that is defined by a singular religious identity of “the Chosen”, “the Saved”, “the Submitters” can be an authentic democracy.

    Indonesia is a parliamentary government in a country that is 86% muslim.
    Turkey is a democratic, secular, unitary, constitutional republic with 99% muslim population. Neither government identifies themselves as an Islamic body.

    Perhaps this is why the attempt to identify the US as a Christian nation seems so counter to the principles of representative democracy…..

  35. bBoy,
    ’ll concede that Israel is not a democracy but to be a theocracy the government would have ran directly by the Jewish Church.

  36. aislander says:

    Can’t a democracy set its own criteria for citizenship and still be a democracy, as long as the government operates on democratic principles (that is, that citizens decide on governmental policies and actions)?

  37. sumner402 says:

    Can’t a democracy set its own criteria for citizenship and still be a democracy

    Right up to the point that it stops being a Democrcy, after that it will become something else, no matter what they or you call it.

    It’s like your ‘socialism’ and ‘Marxism’ BS, just because you have been told (endlessly) that something/someone is socialist/Marxist doesn’t make it so.
    as you yourself have said, ‘words have meanings’ changing them as you so often do only works for you.

  38. beerBoy says:

    Can’t a democracy set its own criteria for citizenship and still be a democracy

    You mean like the German Democratic Republic? Or earlier, when the Nazis were elected?

  39. aislander says:

    Did you READ the question, beerBoy, or are you merely content to score a cheap “point?”

  40. Islander, yes a deomocary can limit it’s citizwnship, but if it limits it too much it will cease to be a democary. In Athens only about 10% of the population were citizens, the rest were slaves, foreigners, and women.

  41. aislander says:

    Is Switzerland a democracy, xring? It has extremely rigid immigration laws, and strictly limits the granting of citizenship. While there are no slaves there, women didn’t attain the franchise until 1971. And do believe foreigners should have the right to vote ANYWHERE but in the nations where they are citizens?

  42. Technically Switzerland is a Republic similar to the US; although 2 of the Cantons still practice direct-democracy (what we would call town hall type democracy). Prior to 1971 only military veterans were allowed to vote or participate in the government, and women were not well represented in the Swiss military.

  43. aislander says:

    Yes, Switzerland and the US are both democratic republics, but I don’t think that is germane to the discussion. The question is: to what degree may a democracy (or democratic republic) limit citizenship rights and still remain democratic. I say if it is upfront, in the constitution, a nation can do what its citizens want to do, until those citizens change the constitution in a lawful manner. It’s THEIR country…

  44. I agree. Lots of newly formed countries (including the US) began with limited a citizenship and later expanded the citizenship pool. The problem is how would a country with a universal citizenship (again such as the US has today) reduce citizenship in a legal and peacefully way? In other words how does one group get another to give up its citizenship and other rights, and how will the now non-citizens be protected from the government?

  45. aislander says:

    What do you mean by “universal citizenship,” xring? Nobody’s talking about removing citizenship from someone who already IS a citizen; at least not in the US. If we’re still talking about Israel, well they have a problem if its Arab citizens are propagating at the rate of mohamedans in Europe, but Orthodox Jews believe in having large families, too. I don’t really know their demographic trends, but it would be interesting to find out…

  46. beerBoy says:

    ai – going from the specific to a theoretical that is limited to only specific examples (like Switzerland rather than the GDR or Nazi Germany) in order to “prove” a specific is a cute rhetorical trick. But it is a trick.

    The reason why I pointed to Nazi Germany is that it, like Israel, was a nation that clearly saw citizenship of a specific ethnicity as highly desireable. There really is no other modern example of a nation based in ethnic purity.

    On a related note, google “Israel razes homes in Bedouin village” and read the articles about the efforts to drive Bedouin Israeli citizens from the Negev desert.

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