Letters to the Editor

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ELECTION: Voters are blind

Letter by Robert D. Andrews, Puyallup on Nov. 4, 2010 at 11:14 am with 72 Comments »
November 4, 2010 11:14 am

I have lived in Washington for six years now, and I lived in California for many years before that. I must say I’m stumped. California has the eighth largest economy in the world yet the state is going bankrupt. Why? Could it be that California is also the most liberal entitlement state in the union?

Now the voters in Washington are doing the same thing by keeping people in office like Chris Gregoire and Patty Murray. You remember the last election for governor when Gregoire campaigned saying “Washington does not have a deficit. We have a rainy day fund surplus.” Of course, when the election was over she finally realized we do in fact have a deficit in Washington.

Now we had a chance to replace Murray with someone who won’t try to bankrupt our country like Murray’s idols in California. And what have the voters done? Put Murray back in D.C. trying to spend the country out of debt and taxing us more to pay for it. What does it take for voters to see where this state is headed and why it is headed there?

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  1. Liberalism is a mental disease.

  2. Sumner401 says:

    Could it be that California is also the most liberal entitlement state in the union?

    No.
    Unless you have some evidence of that, you are just squawking the party line.

    One thing that hurt CA and hurt them bad is the same thing we did here, force a 2/3rds vote to raise taxes and fees.
    So it seems the thing that has bankrupted CA is conservatism.

    Conservatism is a mental disease.

  3. Roncella says:

    Robert, lots of good points in your letter. Its amazing when you see a map of Washington State showing how its citizens vote.

    The whole state is Red except for a small area in and around Seattle/king country its blue.

    The massive title wave that came across the whole Country stopped at the borders of Washington and California. The liberal Progressives have successfully taken over both states.

    Washington at one time had some very outstanding senators both democratic and republican like senator Henry Jackson, senator Maggie, so many others.

    Now we are stuck with the likes of Cantwell, Murray, Gregoire.

  4. Rossi voters = sore losers

  5. misswillie says:

    The voters in this state continue to give too much power to the state government. L& I rates are putting people out of work and little companies out of business and yet the people voted to let it continue. The liguor control board operates at a loss every year, our tax dollars paying the bill, and yet the people voted to continue. We have the highest gas tax in the Union, yet the people voted for more a few years back. When will the voters of this state wake up?

  6. Robert, Christine wasn’t running this year for election.

    I voted for Patty simply because I didn’t a see a workable plan from the Republicans that would provide health care to all Americans.

    Normally I wouldn’t have voted for either party, but health care for all Americans is very important to me.

    If the Republicans had said, let’s replace Medicare, Medicaid, and tax deductions( employer and individual), with a health care voucher based on what Germany or Canada pays per person and adjusted for age and health, I would have voted for them.

    If the Republicans had said, let’s fix Social Security. Let’s raise the age for full retirement benefits and then index the age requirement to life expectancy. And let’s make the cost-of-living increase means tested. That would give an another good reason for voting for them.

    If the Republicans had said war is too damn expensive, let’s rethink this. That would give me still another good reason for voting for them.

    For Dino to get my vote, he needed a workable plan to tackle the hard choices. A plan that I didn’t see.

    Like I said, normally I wouldn’t have voter for either party. Both parties kept ducking the hard choices. However, health care for all Americans is so important to me that I voted for Patty.

  7. Ya know, bBoy, I think sore might be the right word, but not in the way you mean it…just sore as in achy.

  8. Mr. Andrews,
    You are certainly not alone in this assessment, but I don’t see much hope in altering the view of West Coast progressives.

  9. ronniew says:

    fatuous — I would be in favor of health care for everyone IF I thought people really truly cared about their health. When I see obesity rates on the rise because of what people choose to eat and a sedentary lifestyle I see that people don’t really care if they are healthy or not.

  10. fatuous says:

    “The liguor control board operates at a loss every year, our tax dollars paying the bill, and yet the people voted to continue.”

    I’m not following you. Can you provide a link to your data?

    Anyhow, I voted no on both initiatives because I didn’t think the sale of more booze was a good thing. I don’t care who sells it.

    “We have the highest gas tax in the Union, yet the people voted for more a few years back.”

    No we don’t. Do your homework and stop posting bogus information.

    http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/GASOLINE_TAX_MAP_OCTOBER2010.pdf

    “The voters in this state continue to give too much power to the state government. L& I rates are putting people out of work and little companies out of business and yet the people voted to let it continue.”

    You have a point, but passing a one sided initiative is not the answer.

  11. sincere says:

    Roncella has it right!And Pepperment Pattys Plan Is called,follow the Pied Piper because that is what she does best,Follow!For all you Patty Fans,do not worry,as long as there is a King County,you will have Murray in office.

  12. As soon as Gregoire mentioned the rainy day fund surplus, the Teachers Union and the State Workers Union gobbled it up. Now that it has been expended, all new taxes are pointed at paying for the excesses that these two entities now cost annually.
    I got a decent education with 33 students to a class. But then, teachers had talent and were respected. Now teaching is taught to the lowest common denominator.
    State Workers Unions – work on sacred cow projects like the Rainier School which is a drain on the taxpayers. Dont touch their gravy train !
    Democrats, dont you just love them.

  13. slinky246 says:

    I think there exists a more fundamental problem than what Robert mentions here. The problem is not the elected officials although they are a part of it. The problem is, as Roert mentions, the voters are blind.

    The blindness is not the fact they vote for the wrong people, the blindness is their overwhelming desire to protect their wallets.

    Voters turned down a state income tax, they voted down the beverage tax and they made it pretty near impossible for the state legislature to increase revenue (re-instating the 2/3 majority rule), everything to protect their wallets. Basically, since the state is constitutionally required to balance its budget, they can only reduce expenses.

    The bottom line then is a reduction in health services to those who need it most, increases in tuition costs for those who don’t have the money, larger class sizes and reductions in the number of law enforcement personnel who ensure our safety. Is all this worth the 2 or 3 cents they now will save when they buy a soda pop?

    Of course, to assuage the criticism, they will say cut state employees from the state payroll, we don’t need them anyways. But will they be singing the same tune when their child’s class size increases from 20 to 30 students, or when their child has to attend a state school an additional year due to the fact the last class they need to graduate is now only being offered once a year rather than once a semester, or having to wait months to start collecting unemployment benefits if they are temporarily laid off. The list of benefits provided by these unneeded state employees goes on and on.

    Bottom line, they want all the services and benefits the state provides, they just don’t want to have to pay for them.

  14. oldman4 says:

    Good afternoon Sumner some facts for you. California has an income tax that goes from 1% for those making less than $7168.00 to 10.3% at the high end. They also have a sales tax that goes from 8.25% to 10.75%. their problem isn’t that they lack the ability tax tax it’s you guessed it liberal social programs. They are bankrupt and still spending. Expect to see a request for an Obama bail out soon. There’s the facts just the facts

  15. Murigen says:

    I’m not blind. I’m tired of state spending being out of control. Give them another revenue sourse and they won’t slow down their spending. They need to do better with the money they have before they get any more.

  16. JudasEscargot says:

    Well, although the campaigns are over the misinformation campaign wages on.

    Regardless of what percentage of income tax or sales tax exists, if you are not paying the bills (the money REQUIRED to run the state), you will end up bankrupt.

    Oldman is a classic example of single dimensional thinking. He can quote tax percentages, but probably doesn’t know diddily squat about what it costs to run a state the size of California and provide essential services to millions. Yes, Oldman, welfare is essential, unless you want people dying on the streets increasing your cost of health and safety.

    Sumner401 nailed it. California limited its governing body as to how they could create revenue to pay the bills and are now reaping the result.

    Could you image if the oil companies were restricted to raising their prices based on a 2/3 majority of consumers?

    Wait – I want you to say that purchasing gas is a choice and not a requirement. It will make for a fun debate. I’ll start with emergency vehicles.

  17. JudasEscargot says:

    Murigen – name one specific think where the state overpays for what it gets in return.

  18. JudasEscargot says:

    make that “thing”

  19. JudasEscargot says:

    Slinky:

    Great comment!

    Want to see the result of cutbacks in employees, thus services, at the state level? Go to the drivers licensing office and wait in line, watch and listen.

    I loved your example of Employment Security. Having been through that pleasure, I’ve witnessed first hand how long it takes to get a claim filed – meanwhile your bills have to be paid. The other fun part is participating in the mandatory cattle calls to keep your benefits alive. During the time that you listen to someone tell you how to write a resume, you could have applied for a dozen jobs online (the way the majority of employers want). But the cattle call is mandatory because some bureaucrat was sure that everyone on unemployment is getting rich and loves it. This is how they have to manage cases – in mass – because they can’t hire enough case workers.

    Filings increased last week. The “recession” is far from over because it suits the Republicans to keep things fearful and angry. Those middle class Tea Party folks (the ones that are not enjoying Social Security and Medicare) will get a chance to see the new improved government in action.

  20. JAvison says:

    Majority rules Bobby. Sorry you don’t like it. Maybe we should pass a 2/3rd’s requirement for candidates too so that no one can get elected.

    Besides, what has bankrupted our country is two wars (one nearing 10 years) and the financial collapse and ensuing recession.

  21. beerBoy says:

    Meanwhile – here in completely Republican Idaho, they cut services, cut education, used up the rainy day fund and raised taxes and…..bigger shortfalls in the budget are predicted. Explain how that was the Dems fault.

  22. Yes, the restriction on taxation is California’s problem. All the people need to do is send all their money to Sacremento. Voila, no problem.

    If the tea partiers of 1773 came back, they would throw the entire state of California in the Pacific Ocean.

  23. Murigen says:

    I don’t have the budget numbers in front of me, Judas. However, since the budget has been going up every year I have to assume that spending has as well. And since we’ve been in a recession, with revenues going down, the budge should not have been going up. I know, it’s not that simple. But it should be. That’s the way the rest of us have to look at our budgets. The state should operating the same way.

  24. Novelist3 says:

    The state of California is going down the drain day by day, yet Nancy Pelosi was re-elected with 80 percent of the vote. I’d regard that as proof that voters in California will happily cling to their failed policies no matter how much the state sinks. Since Seattle and Olympia are nothing but mini-me clones of Cali, it doesn’t surprise me to see a typical result from those regions. Which also just happen to be the only ones that gave Patty a large margin of victory. The world could burn and the liberals would still vote the same predictable way.

  25. beerBoy says:

    velmak –

    The Tea Party was the culmination of a resistance movement throughout British America against the Tea Act, which had been passed by the British Parliament in 1773. Colonists objected to the Tea Act for a variety of reasons, especially because they believed that it violated their right to be taxed only by their own elected representatives.

  26. Novelist3 says:

    Which has nothing to do with anything. Hence why you said it, of course.

  27. oldman4 says:

    Judas I’m back and being 1 dimensionable let me share some additional information with you. California has a 2010-11 state budget of slightly more than 125.2 billion dollars with a population of 23.5million adults between the ages of 18 and 65. That means each one is responsible for over $5300.00 each.

    The fiqure is an average some pay none some pay more. This does not include local taxes and bonds. I’m pretty certain that people starving for lack of state funds is an over exageration on your part. Now please tell me is there ever a point where we can say to the government enough.

  28. dewilson says:

    ‘scuse me? Murray is going to bankrupt the country?? Wasn’t Rossi an advocate of extending the tax cut to the richest 2% of Americans, adding $570 Billion to our national debt, while also shoving the greatest share of the debt onto the middle class (with interest!). He’s also a shill for the banks and big business who have reaped the benefits of taxpayer-funded bailouts, and still demand Rossi and his Republicans friends do not place any regulations on them to prevent another financial melt-down.

    Good luck America! The 10 years of Republican/Corporate rule brought us to our knees. Now that they have to power to completely turn over our democracy to the corporate interests, we will soon become a subsidiary of China as soon as they call in their debt.

  29. What do you call doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

    CALIFORNIA

  30. to both sides, you have all the numbers, and all the auguments. BUT NO PLAN.
    and no idea how to get us out of these sorry economic conditions.

  31. villager98 says:

    Mr. Andrews must have been in a coma during those “many years” he lived in California. Prop. 13, Ronald Reagan, requiring a two-thirds majority to pass any legislation dealing with the economy, cutting education funding, and on and on. Don’t worry, Mr. Andrews, you will soon feel right at home here in Washington because we are doing all the stupid things Californians did.

  32. First_Lefty says:

    “California has a 2010-11 state budget of slightly more than 125.2 billion dollars with a population of 23.5million adults between the ages of 18 and 65. That means each one is responsible for over $5300.00 each.”

    Notice how Oldman carefully trimmed out the children, who are the ones that need assistance more than anyone. (i’m betting it’s a copy and paste from a Right Wing think tank)

    You have to love watching the Right Wing manipulate and misrepresent issues. If each of those adults is responsible for 2 children (average) you can cut $5,300 each by 3 and you’ll have $1777. Now there is a nice sum to live on in California’s cost of living.

    How do you like THAT manipulation?

  33. beerBoy says:

    Novelist Which has nothing to do with anything. Hence why you said it, of course.

    velmak If the tea partiers of 1773 came back, they would throw the entire state of California in the Pacific Ocean.

    And various other claims about the original Tea Party being in lockstep to velmak’s opinions in response to Op-Ed pages.

    Do I have to draw a diagram novelist?

  34. First_Lefty says:

    Here, Roxey – enjoy some education for the day.

    At the recent conference in Chicago of the Association of Politics and Life Sciences, a panel on “Biobehaviorial Approaches to Politics” addressed the important question: What is wrong with people who disagree with the mainstream of American academic social scientists? Nancy Meyer-Emerick, an assistant professor of public administration at Cleveland State University, made a presentation on “Evolutionary Perspectives on the Authoritarian Personality.”

    Professor Meyer-Emerick wants to know if there are genetic tendencies that promote what she dubs “authoritarianism.” She defines this distasteful quality through the work of University of Manitoba associate professor of psychology Robert Altemeyer. He’s developed a helpful questionnaire, the Right Wing Authoritarian (RWA) Scale, to identify those harboring authoritarian tendencies.

    According to Professor Altemeyer, right-wing authoritarians are cognitively rigid, aggressive, and intolerant. They are characterized by steadfast conformity to group norms, submission to higher status individuals, and aggression toward out-groups and unconventional group members. On the RWA Scale, subjects are asked to agree or disagree with statements like: “Some of the worst people in our country nowadays are those who do not respect our flag, our leaders and the normal way things are supposed to be done” and “There is absolutely nothing wrong with nudist camps.” Guess which one RWAs tend to agree with?

  35. There IS a plan and was started in 1776. We have since gone off the plan and freedom itself (plus a sales tax) will be on the final bill. The founding fathers would not be happy about what government has been doing for the past 100 years.

  36. FL, do you expect anyone to be surprised by this professorial B$? For every red-neck extremist you can find, I can find you a brainwashed, biased university professor.

    I

  37. Make that brain-scrubbed.

  38. IS – In 1776, the plan included slavery.

  39. sozo – there are not that many professors, biased or not.

  40. FL, what does professor whazzisname have to say about left-wing authoritarians? Not a damn thing, I’m sure. He needn’t do any more research because they’re the same as their right-wing counterparts. They just have a different way of showing it, as in Stalin, Castro, Paul Pot, and Hugo chavez. Want to move to Cuba or Venezuela?

  41. Then there’s that psycho Kim Jong Il in North Viet Nam, which is second on Human Rights Watch’s list of top 100 offenders.

    Your authoritarians on the left are responsible for most of the carnage of the 20th century.

  42. And that would be North Korea. “North” Viet Nam has its own issues.

  43. Neo doesn’t mind voting for the loser this time. Sorry Dino, 3 strikes. Patty has the message. Seems that our politicians have forgotten that it is the local voters who elect them. Too many pander to the national political audience. Scoop Jackson, Warren Magnusson, Tom Foley all understood that the most important role for them was to legislate to the benefit of Washington state. Too much emphasis on large population centers make politicians like Pelosi and Mitchell appear to be the leaders. The real leaders know they are in DC not for the national politics but because of local politics. Patty knows we’re here. I expect better performance from her this term. Bring home the bacon baby!

  44. bobcat1a says:

    Funny Roncella, but not only does the area around King County vote blue, it also provides most of the money to pay for services in the red parts. You might also want to look at which states pay most of the federal income taxes that pay for the services the red states can’t afford to provide their citizens. Hint: It’s California and New York among other mostly blue states. You know, the ones that voted for Obama.

  45. Roncella says:

    Bobcat1a, Your right they pay for alot social programs they have created.

    they are also bankrupt, in need of a bail out from the federal government, which is all of us in increased taxes.

    This increased taxing and social programs need to be reviewed and in some cases cut or redone.

    There are too many taking and getting these services and too few contributing, so up go the taxes, and more and more big cities & states are going bankrupt.

  46. Sumner401 says:

    What do you call doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

    Republicans.

  47. beerBoy says:

    Still think it odd that red, which was once associated with communism, is now accepted as the signifier for Republican or conservative.

  48. aislander says:

    Murray won and the Seahawks are losing. Sucks to live in Washington…

  49. aislander says:

    The red/blue shift was done, I am certain, beerBoy, as a way of removing a weapon from the conservative rhetorical arsenal…

  50. Isldr _ NeoCons created the red / blue shift, with Red = red blooded Americans and the Blood of the Lamb. Blue was a slap at blue blooded elites.

  51. larsman says:

    X- I thought it was Red as in communism and Blue as in true blue, maybe it is time for the purple?

  52. aislander says:

    It occurred during the 2000 election, when the networks decided to use red to stand for Republicans, and blue for…those others on the election map, contrary to a hundred years of tradition. I seem to recall that the League of Women Voters pushed the change…

  53. Lars – red – republican, blue – democrat.

    In the 50’s or 60’s the US Army in Europe had an anti-communist training program that used Red = Communist, and Blue = non-communitst west.

  54. PS: the program was called Pro-Blue

  55. Bingo Ai… and it falls w/in the left’s penchant for redefining language.

    I was tempted to utter an offensive term meaning thought to be unpleasantly eccentric, but I abstained.

  56. beerBoy says:

    iam(who) – You give a bingo to aislander, who believes in Goldberg’s revisionist political language, for saying that he “is certain” without citing anything to support his assertion.

    The simulacra that you guys create is staggering.

  57. Yo Mr. Beer, getting a bit obsessive there with following me around and trying to counter what I write.

    ………..
    The terms “red states” and “blue states” came into use in 2000 to refer to those states of the United States whose residents predominantly vote for the Republican Party or Democratic Party presidential candidates, respectively. A blue state tends to vote for the Democratic Party, and a red state tends to vote for the Republican Party, although the colors were often reversed or different colors used before the 2000 election. According to AlterNet and The Washington Post, the terms were coined by journalist Tim Russert, during his televised coverage of the 2000 presidential election.[1]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

  58. cont. > This unofficial system of political colors used in the United States is the reverse of that in most other long-established democracies, where blue represents right-wing and conservative parties, and red represents left-wing and social democrat parties.

  59. aislander says:

    I am “certain” beerBoy, because I was alive in the year 2000 (I know a good memory is inconvenient for lefties), and I remember the discussion surrounding the decision to use red in a manner contrary to custom since, oh, 1917 anyway…

  60. Color phobia. What will we trash each other for, next?

  61. aislander says:

    It was handy shorthand, Polago, to refer to communists as “reds” (as in the movie starring Warren Beatty) and socialists as “pinks” of “pinkos.” It is mildly irritating and illustrative of the left’s technique of perverting and usurping language to achieve political goals, that we no longer have that shorthand. The necessity of explaining that one is referring to communists rather than Republicans renders it anything but shorthand…

  62. It’s always the left’s fault, aislander. But then I should know better than to expect more from you.

  63. aislander says:

    Add the fact that goals and values of Dems more closely resemble those of communists than do the goals and values of Republicans, and the color shift becomes even more irritating. Not that Republicans have been paragons of adherency to constitutional principles, but they’re not as bad as Democrats…

  64. aislander says:

    …and there you go again, Polago. Facts and logic, right? You can do better, I’m sure…

  65. X – The color differentiation dates back to the Byzantine era chariot races in the Hippodrome that were sponsored by different politically influenced entities each attempting to succor favoritism by influencing the nearby attendants to the Emperor. These events went from sports betting into extreme active political “debate” on the street which began to get deadly.
    These developments accelerated between the reigns of Constantine through Justinian and were abated by the Alexandrian “rat / flea” Plague around 532 A.D.

    The colors were Blue and ….Green…

  66. beerBoy says:

    aislander – go to the link iam(who) provided and you will see that there are historical precedents from before 2000. I was there in 2000 too ( and much earlier) – your paranoid interpretation of it being a liberal plot isn’t supported.

  67. Regardless of who, when, where, and how the terms were first used, I stand by my original comment.

    That is the right uses red to imply Red Blooded Americans Bathed in The Blood of the Lamb, and blue to refer to effete, atheistic, leftist elites.

  68. aislander says:

    As I said, beerBoy the red/blue thing is mildly irritating and not worth any more discussion, but I’ll continue to discuss it to this extent: I am not the only one who noticed the incongruity of the map colors on election night 2000 AD. Several commentators noted that the League of Women Voters had spearheaded the change (it would be VERY coincidental if ALL the networks decided on the color assignment independently of each other, and coincidence does not prove causation, but it DOES indicate A cause), and they speculated that it was to break the tie between the color red and left-wing politics…

  69. The red blue thing is total non-sense.

    We must have run out of important things to dis-cuss.

  70. I say who cares? If changing it makes the reds and pinkos feel good, then let them have their way.

  71. aislander says:

    I agree, thewho. This may develop into one of those anomalies that makes English such an interesting language: reds will still be left-wing radicals, but red states will be bastions of conservative values…

  72. It is an odd thing. Even Howard gets it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9GespLQrM8

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