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RELIGION: What did the founders say?

Letter by James Warren , Federal Way on Oct. 1, 2010 at 2:28 pm with 37 Comments »
October 1, 2010 2:28 pm

The letter regarding “Faith and the Politician” (9-30) raised great questions about our founding documents and the writers’ religious beliefs.

The Constitution is the basis for both law and our government’s framework. It was created by men tired of British rule, the European feudal divine right of kings, the state’s abuse of human rights and freedoms and the church’s interference. It is a literal document interpreted many different ways by our high courts, constitutional scholars, professors and U.S. citizens. The Founders’ wisdom was to allow differing interpretations, made possible by the actual document itself.

The word “Creator” in our Declaration is a generic term that can include a Christian God, a Jewish Jehovah, an Islamic Allah or even the Hindu goddess Shiva.

Thomas Jefferson published his own self-edited version of the gospels and wrote that “the church’s meddlings have caused good men to reject the whole in disgust.” George Washington was a Grand Master in the Masonic Lodge and attended church once a month but left by the back door to avoid communion. Benjamin Franklin found dogma “unintelligible” and vowed early on to shun “Christian assemblies.”

John Adams was a Protestant Unitarian. During his term, the Senate ratified a “Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli” and Article XI stated that “America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

Misinformation, hearsay and wishful thinking are not factual history, but while our Founders may not all have been practicing Christians, they were far from being “anti-religious.”

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  1. beerBoy says:

    Franklin’s disdain for church services spices his autobiography. Jefferson clipped all references to a divinity for Jesus out of his personal Bible. Paine’s Age of Reason still enrages the official church. Madison’s First Amendment enshrines disdain for an official religion. Unitarianism in all its liberal diversity was shared by presidents two through six, including two Adamses, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe.

    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/harvey-wasserman/31628/hey-tea-gop-ben-franklins-not-your-guy

  2. beerBoy says:

    Meanwhile, in the U.K., Druidry has attained official religion status.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101002/wl_uk_afp/britainreligionlawdruidsoffbeat

  3. Sumner401 says:

    The American christian taliban has over the decades rewritten and corrupted the very foundation of this nation.

  4. Roncella says:

    America is seen by most Americans as a Christian nation. As I drove across the Country through Montana, North and South Dakota, Minn. Iowa, Wisc. Indiana, Il. I seen many many churches with crosses on top.

    I’m certain if you were to ask the folks attending those churches if they were Christian or not they would answer Yes they are Christian and proudly so.

    Sumner you seem to have an unlealthy hate for Christians and folks who follow the ten commandants, why is that ?

  5. Ron – the unsupported assumptions in your posts are:

    1) Your conclusion that, because Christianity is the predominant religion in the US that makes the US a Christian nation.

    2) Your characterization of Sumner’s post regarding the extremist Dominionist Talibangelist minority in America as “unearthly hate for Christians.

    3) Your belief that those who characterize themselves as Christian actually follow the 10 Commandments.

  6. Roncella says:

    BeerBoy, I’m no expert but I believe the the Majority Faith in America is Christian.

    About Sumners post, He disrespectfully compares and places the Taliban with Christians, very sad comparison

    If I had a choice to board a plane with a majority of Muslims or a majority of Christians I would choose the Christians to fly to my destination safely.

    BeerBoy, The ten commandments, are special to both Christians and alot of people in the World.

    Do all Christians follow them to the letter, are Christians pure as the driven snow, No. Thats why forgivenss is available to Christians and Catholiics alike in their bibles and teachings.

    BeerBoy I don’t need to remind you what a great and special Country America is and has been since its begining.

    Does it or has it done everything perfectly, no but I know of no other Country with the freedoms and opportunities that America offers everyone, no matter what faith or color of skin they follow or are.

    BeerBoy I usually don’t enter into discussions of Religion or faith, as its very personal for all of us, who all have our own beliefs and desires. I have noticed that whenever Isreal or Jews enter into the posts you become very out spoken against them, and thats your right, but its one reason why I don’t usually post when the topic is Religion.

  7. OldLefty says:

    “Thats why forgivenss is available to Christians and Catholiics alike in their bibles and teachings.”

    Catholics ARE Christian. Why separate the two?

  8. OldLefty says:

    “About Sumners post, He disrespectfully compares and places the Taliban with Christians, very sad comparison”

    Sorry, but the ultra-conservative of religions – whether Islam or Christian are very much alike.

  9. Roncella says:

    Oldlefty, Shame on you for judging Christians by your description of Ultra-conservates as very much like extreme Muslims terrorists.

    You should be Sorry !

  10. Roncella says:

    Ollefty , the Christians or Protestants have a different Bible than the Roman Catholics, thats the only reason I separated them. Both are considered Christians.

  11. OldLefty says:

    Roncella,

    I’m never sorry for telling the truth. The difference between the KKK and the Taliban is minimal. Take a look at the “Christian militias”.

    Now, for the truth about Protestants versus Catholics. Protestants were Catholics with a resentment. Original Christians were like neither of them.

    The Catholics do predate the Protestants by about 1,000 years, so I’m always amused when I hear the Evangelical Protestants say “we know the truth”.

  12. beerBoy says:

    I have noticed that whenever Isreal or Jews enter into the posts you become very out spoken against them,

    BE VERY CAREFUL – you are close to making a slanderous lie. I have never made comments about Jews. Specific leaders of Israel, yes. the IDF, Mossad, yes, The Israeli government, yes.

    I have never made an outspoken comment about Jews. For you to conflate my criticism of Israel with being outspoken against Jews is completely wrong.

  13. beerBoy says:

    the Christians or Protestants have a different Bible than the Roman Catholics

    But…….. oh never mind…..I don’t think pointing it out to you would get through.

  14. beerBoy says:

    Yep…..the spirit of Know Nothingism is alive and drinking TEA.

  15. Roncella says:

    BeerBoy surly you knew that the Roman Catholics Bible is different than the Protestant Bible ? ! Both are considered to be Christian but they are different teachings and beliefs.

    I would suggest you go back and review you comments as pertaining to Jews in some of the past posts.

  16. Sumner401 says:

    Sumner you seem to have an unlealthy hate for Christians and folks who follow the ten commandants, why is that ?

    roncella you have a real tendency to make crap up (lie) then run like a girl when confronted, why is that?

  17. Sumner401 says:

    He disrespectfully compares and places the Taliban with Christians, very sad comparison

    It’s a very good comparison roncella, you don’t like it because it hits too close to home.
    And I make that comparison out of total respect for christians that do not engage in the tactics of you and some of your fellows, they are real Americans and you are not.
    If the truth hurts you then maybe you should look at why.

  18. I love TEA, and gooooooooooooooooldd.

  19. Roncella says:

    Sumner as an extreme Liberal/Progressive Shame on you for being sexist in describing me as running away like a girl.

    You are being Sexist in using the term running like a girl…..Your fellow liberals will not be happy with you for not being politically correct in your post.

  20. Sumner401 says:

    Extreme liberal/progressive roncella?
    My goodness you never manage to get anything correct do you?
    And yes you run away from questions, reality and a debate like a girl, screaming with your arms flailing wildly and your skirt flying.

  21. Sumner401 says:

    BTW, roncella I notice you and your fellow teawhiners have backed away from your long and over predicted “big win” next month.
    At least you can read and judge political trends, or in your case listen to others not mention 24/7 the “big win”, out of site out mind right?

    But, would care to now step up the plate and give me the number that you consider the ‘big win’? How many seats does your party need to pick up to qualify as your ‘big win’?
    Got the guts or are you going to run again?

  22. Roncella says:

    Sumner, as I have probably been around longer than you, and am from Chicago I never under estimate the Democrats skill at winning elections any way they possibly can

    that would include dead people voting, and illegals voting acorn bully’s at voting centers, and Seiu Union Bully’s intimadating folks trying to vote.

    The Democrats with the help of the Lame Stream Media will come up with charges against their opponets that are usually false a week or two before an election because the Democrats can’s run on the issues that really matter to the voters, they would lose fore sure if they did.

    Thats why I would not venture to guess what will happen this November.

  23. OldLefty says:

    “as I have probably been around longer than you”

    “ACORN, SEIU, Bullies, Lamestream Media”

    All that alleged experience and not an original thought.

  24. OldLefty says:

    Quoting Palin, no less.

  25. Roncella says:

    Oldlefty get your head out of the sand before your brain shrinks anymore.

    All those things I mentioned I have seen happen in the years I have followed Politics, they are truthful and honest assements of what has taken place at elections. As far asquoting what Sarah Palin says and don’t say, I’ll leave that for you to ponder.

    Sarah Palin has accomplished more in her life than most folks will in a life time. She is a leader in the tea party movement , she would make a great fishing and hunting partner, Oh Yea.

  26. Well, this dialogue has certainly run amok.

  27. beerBoy says:

    ron – unless you can cite any antisemitic posts (and, if there were any out there I am sure that iamjimbo would have already posted them) then you better back off.

    I don’t want to have to complain about slanderous behavior by you.

  28. bobcat1a says:

    Roncella said,”Sumner you seem to have an unlealthy hate for Christians and folks who follow the ten commandants, why is that ?

    I notice you wisely separated those two groups. Part of the problem Sumner has is probably the fact that very few members of either group cross over to the other. If all christians followed the ten commandments, I bet Sumner would be tickled to death.

  29. Sumner401 says:

    Thats why I would not venture to guess what will happen this November.

    Running away again roncella?
    Somehow I knew you would, you simply don’t have the talking points to answer the question in an adult, honest way.
    Instead you took opportunity to spew your usual meaningless talking points and ran like a girl.

    I will explain it to you again roncella, I don’t want a prediction from you, I simply want the line drawn as to what, in your opinion, would constitute this “big win” you have been crowing about for the last 18 months.
    How many seats does the GOP need to pick up in order for you to rightfully pound your chest and gloat?
    I say anything over 1 and you and the rest will be using words like, “landslide” “mandate” and “the people have spoken”, “liberalism is dead” and other equally ridiculous statements.

    So, whats the number ron?
    You can’t answer any of my other easy questions, but this one is so simple even a teawhiner can answer it.

  30. Sumner401 says:

    If all christians followed the ten commandments, I bet Sumner would be tickled to death.

    I would be more tickled if they ‘practiced what they preached’, stayed out of politics like they should, shut their mouths and stayed off my porch.
    That would tickle me to death.

  31. Sumner401 says:

    I never under estimate the Democrats skill at winning elections any way they possibly can

    Like having the USSC step in, stop all state mandated vote counting and declare the winner?
    Like that?

  32. Sumner401 says:

    Sarah Palin has accomplished more in her life than most folks will in a life time.

    Your right most of us will never get the chance to quit the office of mayor to become the Governor and then quit that job to!
    Yes her resume is just full jobs and schools she dropped out of, quite the “accomplished” star you’ve hitched your wagon too!

  33. Roncella says:

    Sumner, like I said Sarah Palin has accomplished more already than most folks will in a life time.

    You can call her all the names you want to but she will continue to be a strong influence on Politics affecting both Republicans and Democrats for years to come.

    Sumner the Democrats will try and win anyway they can. Thats their record and its been proven over and over again.

    In Chicago and other large Cities and States, where unions and political bosses have a large payroll all working for city and state government officials its very hard to defeat a Democrat thats been in office many years

    Why are you so bent on getting someone to give you an estimate on how good or bad the Republicans are going to do in November ?

    Sumner, tune in to MSNBC and CNN or Fox News they all have predictions from many Democrats and Republican experts on how the elections will shake out.

  34. “Catholics ARE Christian. Why separate the two?”

    True, the taliban doesn’t so why should libs?

  35. Sumner401 says:

    More meaningless and in this case funny as heck talking points from roncella.

    Seriously roncella, you can’t give me a number of seats picked up that will give you and the other lemmings the ability to rightfully claim this “big win” you have worn out and pound your sunken chests and wave your flags in victory?
    6 seats?
    20?
    Or is it as I say, any number over 1?

    And unlike you, I never, ever watch ‘politics’ TV, it’s more mindless than ‘reality’ TV.

  36. Speaking for secular humanists, you’re all out there on the fringes.

    Back to the subject at hand, I agree completely with Mr. Warren’s premise. Our forefathers had political winds to deal with and apropriately were vague in some areas of their writings. To be clear….We are NOT a christian nation. We are a pluralistic republic and tolerant of many differing points of view and faiths.

  37. beerBoy says:

    ron “Sumner, like I said Sarah Palin has accomplished more already than most folks will in a life time.”

    In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes.
    Andy Warhol

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