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WAR: Obama’s right to shift our focus

Letter by Karin J. Morris, Tacoma on Sep. 3, 2010 at 4:19 pm with 91 Comments »
September 3, 2010 4:20 pm

Charles Krauthammer, he of the neo-con club which pushed to get us into the ill-conceived war in Iraq, is at it again (column, 9-3).

He still engages in this willful thinking that only if we spread our power around the trouble spots of the world and worked to bring democracy to those areas, all would be well. This after a seven-year war in Iraq and an even longer one in Afghanistan where our $700 billion – annual - defense spending and our whiz-bang technology does not show clear success.

I welcome President Obama’s desire to focus on our economy and on rebuilding our nation. How can we stay strong if we are slowly bleeding our resources through these ill-conceived wars?

“Those whom God wants to punish, he will send into Afghanistan” is an old East Asian proverb. After the British in 1845, the Germans in 1915 and the Russians in the 1980s were driven out without success, our efforts look like they will follow the same path.

Better to focus on “nation building” here at home and make us strong from within so that we can have clout when real threats come our way.

Leave a comment Comments → 91
  1. donjames says:

    “I welcome President Obama’s desire to focus on our economy and on rebuilding our nation.”

    I would too. But economy and focus are two words that are never seen in the Oval Office at the same time.

    Unfortunately barry is far too busy working on his golf games, taking as many vacations as possible, spending us into oblivion with entitlement programs like 0bamacare, setting up democrat slush funds – like the stimulus package – for use in paying back those whose obscene contributions paid for his election, and pushing for the single most massive tax increase in history – the repeal of the Bush Tax Cuts – to go along with his future economy-wrecking boondoggle AKA Cap and Tax… er, cap and trade.

    0bama is not trying to shift our focus from the war. If anything, it may yet be the one single issue on which he could hang his golf cap come 2012.

  2. beerBoy says:

    dj – c’mon, there are so many other things to criticize Obama for:

    President Obama has spent all or part of 26 days “on vacation” during his first year as president, according to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller.

    President Reagan, in 1981, spent all or part of 42 days away from the White House “on vacation” at his home in Santa Barbara, Calif, according to Knoller. President Reagan and his wife, Nancy, also spent three or four days around New Year’s Day each year in Palm Springs, Calif., at the home of philanthropist Walter Annenberg. (In 1993 the late Mr. Annenberg founded the nonpartisan Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, which is FactCheck.org’s parent organization.)

    President George W. Bush spent even more time away from the presidential mansion in the nation’s capital than Reagan. Of the 77 total “vacation” trips the former president made to his Texas ranch while in office, nine of them — all or part of 69 days — came during his first year as president in 2001, according to Knoller.

    Bush’s father, President George H.W. Bush, spent less time “on vacation” during his first year than his son, but spent more days than President Obama. According to travel records provided to FactCheck.org by the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum, the former president took six trips — spanning all or part of 40 days — to the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1989. The archivist at Bush’s presidential library told us she didn’t have a list of all vacations but did have the Kennebunkport visits.


  3. Based on today’s job statistics, it would appear that the rebuilding isn’t going well. It’s a gloomy day at the Whitehouse, or should be.

  4. Sumner401 says:

    Like all conservatives Krauthammer is a joke and should be treated as such.

  5. Come on November!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. iamjimbo says:

    Anytime a neo-soc (puppet) “focuses” on the economy we are in trouble.

  7. dewilson says:

    Great letter Karin. As you point out, we were snookered into an unncessary (and illegal) war by Krauthammer and his neo-con friends and they are desperate to perpetuate the myth that it was good decision.

    DJAmes – I love how you frame the “tax cut” issue. Firstly, it’s not a REPEAL of tax cuts. As intended by the Republicans and Bush who signed the bill, they EXPIRE this year. Obama proposes to EXTEND only those cuts for the middle class, i.e., households with under $250,00 income. The top 2% would revert to the old rates, a whopping 3.5% increase on the richest of the rich. Of course our Conservo-Republican friends, the Johnny-come-lately deficity hawks, want those super rich folks to get an extension too, which would add almost $700 BILLION to the deficit (and leave the middle class with an ever greater share of the tax burden).

    And a question, DJ – If Obama’s proposal is “the single most massive tax increase in history” wouldn’t that make Bush’s 10 years of tax cuts the single most massive deficit increase in history??

  8. freakwater says:

    George, where are the WMD?

  9. iamjimbo says:

    “real threats”? Tell that to the families of those that were killed on 9-11.

  10. the3rdpigshouse says:

    “OH-Bummer” is an anti-American marxist/socialist and none of his policies will accomplish anything but drive our nation further down the socialist toilet!! Only other anti-American leftists can find comfort in that reality!

  11. Roncella says:

    President Obama has given a green light and encouragement to those terrorists fighting our troops in both Afg. and Iraq, this according to an Active Duty General with knowledge of both Countries by continuing to announce a withdrawal date certain.

    Yes its true Obama didn’t get America involved in these wars but once elected President it becomes his responsibility as Commander in Chief to fight those wars and make decisions and policies that will not endanger our Troops. We have just lost over twnety toops in two days of fighting in Afg..

    President Obama is bent on a equalizing wealth in America by lowering the standard of living of the middle class and upper middle class working folks who pay their taxes unlike many of his cabinet selections, and follow the laws of the land.

    If he finds a way to force his cap and tax utility bill through the congress along with the already bankrupted Obama Care health care bill already passed he will have moved alot closer to his goal of equalizing most Americans incomes and futures.

    Hopefully the voters will not be fooled by the bluedog and other democrats who at election time become very conservative and republican sounding. Some of the democrats runing this year are actually attacking Pelosi, Reid, & Obama in their adds and they never mention that they are Democrats.

    Its time for the voters to send the pretenders packing and bring in some new folks that will better represent their views and wishes.

  12. JungleBoy says:

    Karin – the annual defense spending of the United States is about 700 billion dollars. This is money that would be spent regardless of whether or not we are engaged in a war(s). The total money spent on the War on Terror, which includes the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, is about 1 trillion dollars. This figure is not an annual amount. It also happens to be about the same amount spent on the Stimulus Bill (which has been a complete waste of money).

    You say that you welcome President Obama’s focus on the economy. Unfortunately, that scrutiny by the president has done very little to improve America’s economic situation. Also unfortunate is the fact that the Community Organizer in Chief has completely ignored the war in Afghanistan – other than to implement a Bush-like troop surge, and install a Bush era General (remember when you called this General, “General Betray-Us”?). This lack of focus on foreign policy is endangering our troops, and setting up the U.S for failure.

    By the way, President Obama and the Democrats in Congress are the ones who called the war in Afghanistan a “necessary war.” This implies that the war belongs to them. It’s time for the Democrats to “man-up” and start taking responsibility for their actions.

  13. dj says “Barry”… “pushing for the single most massive tax increase in history – the repeal of the Bush Tax Cuts”

    The Republican congress passed “the Bush tax cuts” in such a manner that they would expire after ten years, and now that the ten years has passed and the tax cuts are expiring, the Republicans claim Obama and the Democrats are increaseing taxes by simply following the law that the Republicans originally legislated.

    Will the party of moral superiority and “Country First” please stand up just once and take responsibility for their own actions?

  14. Sumner401 says:

    Take responsibility? republicans?
    Are you kidding?
    Name one time in history where they have done that.

    They still blame Carter for everything!

  15. Sumner401 says:

    Where is Osama Bin Lauden?
    Remember him?
    He is the boogy man we went to ‘smoke out of his hole’ 10 years ago, in a country that he was NEVER in!
    Over a trillion dollars and 5000 dead Americans later, where is he?

  16. JungleBoy says:

    Sumner – maybe you should ask Obama where Osama is hiding. President Bush killed Saddam Hussein. When’s Barak Hussein going to kill Osama? It is after all Obama’s war now. Or is it Osama’s? Now, even I, am getting confused.

  17. “It’s time for the Democrats to “man-up” and start taking responsibility for their actions. ”

    Ya think?

    Not as long as they can shift the focus to someone else.

  18. Sumner401 says:

    President Bush killed Saddam Hussein.

    So what?
    There was no threat from him or Iraq, so what really was the point in starting that war? Had nothing to do with 9/11 or the big scary terrorism boogie man you all hide from, so why did he start that war and why did he lie to do it?
    Why did we spend so much blood and treasure there?


  19. Sumner401 says:

    Those 2 wars and the devastation to the economy are a couple things the republicans can ‘man up’ and accept responsibility for.

    Any bets on when they will or will they keep “shifting the focus to someone else”?

  20. The chances of anyone finding Osama are pretty slim, once given a head start of many years to find a hiding spot.

    But back to taxes. If the Republicans can distort the expiration of the tax cuts into a tax increase, then in lieu of the fact it was Re[publican legislation that included an expiration date, it is a Republican tax increase, not a Democratic one.

  21. Roncella says:

    Sumner, ” So What “/ Not So What to millions who had to live under Saddam and sons murder, rapes, experimental chemical weapons. Our troops found many many mass graves while looking for WMD’s.

    And all you can say is so What !!??

    At least now millons who live in Iraq have a chance for a decent life with a much better form of Government.

    By the way Sumner, I guess you must have missed it when so many of your hero’s also believed that Suddam had Wea;pons of Mass Destruction and was about to use them on his neighbors, Like John (I served in viet nam)Kerry, Hillory Clinton, Bill Clinton, Nancy :Pelosi, the United Nations, England, France Spain, Germany, NATO, on and on, they also voted to give Bush the authority to invade Iraq.

    You were no doubt tuned in to CNN or MSNBC taking notes and having a kool-aid party for Liberals/Progressives.

  22. Sumner401 says:

    Yes roncella, so what.
    We Americans do not do what your failure bush had us do, ‘nation building’.
    it cost us over a trillion and counting, yet you whine about spending.
    Just not that spending, why is that? You got more talking points for that no doubt.

    And if you ask the Iraqi people, they will tell you they were much better off before your failure rode into town, at least they had electricity and running water.

    Listing off the people that swallowed the WMD lie doesn’t do you any good roncella, it’s still lies and they came from your hero, the failure.
    Shifting focus onto someone else?
    The hypocrisy shines bright.

  23. Let’s just say Bush did lie (which he didn’t) but let’s say he did…how stupid does that make your heroes Sumner, to fall for it?

  24. chris3dog says:

    Sumner401, Osama bin Laden is hiding out in Crawford, Texas. He is cleverly disguised as a ranch hand, while working on the Bush ranch.

  25. beerBoy says:

    “Bush killed Saddam Hussein”…..funny I thought the Iraqis hanged him after a “fair” trial.

  26. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Karin – the only focus a competent Commander-in-Chief has is completing the mission and bringing our men & women home victorious!

  27. Sumner401 says:

    The failure bush DID lie, it’s well established and undeniable at this point, at least by those that are drunk on koolaid and my hero’s are mine, very few people know who they are and anyone that claims to know, it in fact a liar them self.

  28. Re read your post Sumner.

    Even you say you’re drunk on kool-aid.

    And I didn’t mean to get your knickers in a twist about your heroes. They are all yiours and you are welcome to them. That’s the crazy and wonderful thing about living in America!!

  29. iamjimbo says:

    Weird… there’s like… A LWN echo chamber…

  30. Sumner401 says:

    I see the right is still attacking the person, it’s what they do best best.
    In fact since logic, truth and facts are not in their wheel house, it’s all they can do, call names and hope to ‘shift the focus onto someone else’.

  31. Yep…..those documentaries sure have a lot of truthiness to them.

    I doubt they included the reporter who threw his shoes a W, or interviews of the detained in Abu Ghraib, or the families who lost loved ones through “collateral damage”.

    An overview of opinion polls of Iraqis doesn’t really support what those documentaries suggest to you

    Polling organizations have carried out many opinion surveys in Iraq since March 2003. These polls, including those sponsored by the US and UK governments, have clearly shown that Iraqis are very critical of the presence of foreign forces in their country.

  32. iamjimbo says:

    “those documentaries sure have a lot of truthiness to them.”

    This isn’t the globalwarmingclimatechange thread B.

  33. iamjimbo says:

    … and the polls have more truthiness?

  34. beerBoy says:

    Let me explain it in a way you might understand…..”Michael Moore”.

  35. beerBoy says:

    or, in your particular instance, algore.

  36. beerBoy says:

    the gay liberals she insults with her homophobic slurs towards the Tea Party people

    Umm…..it was the TP faction that first used the term “tea bagging”. And, though I have never experienced it, there is nothing about that particular practice that is necessarily exclusive to the homosexual community.

  37. beerBoy says:

    And….are you saying that gay conservatives don’t indulge in that practice?

  38. Roncella says:

    Karin, President Obama is trying to shift the focus on almost anything he can away from the unemployment of 9,6 %, companies to uncertain about Obamacare to start hiring or expanding or up grading.

    Obama and the Democrats in Congress have started a new scare tactic telling all the seniors that Republicans will end their social security checks.

    The democrats do this at every election cycle. This time they are starting early to try and change the subject to anything but the ecinomy. Obama’s advisors have to be chicking all the different ;polls and are noticing that in many states like Ohio, they just did a poll showing 51% to 42% want President Bush back over President Obama.

    The Democrats are now starting to ;panic. I heard Nancy Pelosi speaking to some reporters yesterday and she looked like she was in a trance of some kind, she made no sense at all.

    All independents, Conservatives, Republicans, enlightened Democrats need to get all their friends and family registered and ready to vote these big spending elite snob democrats out of office this November.

    Help to inform your family about which canidates would best represent their best interest.

    November is only a couple of months away, its time to get started now. Its Your Country hanging in the balance, it yours and your familes futures that will forever be affected.

    Warning, don’t be fooled by the conservative souunding blue dog democrats, they always vote with Pelosi & Reid & Obama.

  39. You are really losing your way bBoy, engaging in the nonsense about sexual practices. What’s happened to you?

  40. Sumner401 says:

    Yes, ‘shifting the focus’ is alive and well on talk radio and on the GOP propaganda network.
    The talking points are flowing.

    Conservatism is what has gotten this country into the mess it is now in, the facts of that can not be denied.

  41. iamjimbo says:

    “it was the TP faction that first used the term “tea bagging”. ”

    … funny, I never heard the term until Beerboy first uttered it, here… he must have heard it from Anderson Cooper whilst gathering his lwnut talking points ;)

  42. Novelist3 says:

    “Let me explain it in a way you might understand…..’Michael Moore’ ”

    Why are you bringing up that politically irrelevant, overweight propagandist here? That seems like a very Sumner401 thing to do, Mr. Beerboy. Moore has absolutely no credibility amongst anyone who actually has a brain and can do research.
    Seriously, there have been entire books written about how Moore lies to his audiences- about how he carefully splices footage together in order to manipulate “events” the way he wants.
    Truth and Micheael Moore are polar opposites.

  43. beerBoy says:

    sozo and Novelist3 – I was responding to the absurdities of AreYouHighOrWhat posted upthread where s/he posts:

    Dozens of documentaries clearly show…. hence the reference to the Right’s loathed and ridiculed documentary film makers Michael Moore and Al Gore. To clarify – if you understand that documentaries are slanted then to cite them as evidence is absurd.

    and this gem

    the gay liberals she insults with her homophobic slurs towards the Tea Party people Which, I assumed, was a reference to Sumner’s sometime use of the term “Tea Bagger” (not on this thread though)

    I should have just not responded as it only provided others with a chance to be confused.

  44. hansgruber says:

    Maybe Biden needs to tell Barry the economy is “a big F-ing deal” and should have been focused on from the very begining.

    The failed stimulus bill of 2009 costs MORE than the entire Iraq War has (The financial impact of the Iraq War is calculated to be just under $750 billion (CBO ranks it at $708B). http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Little-known-fact-Obamas-failed-stimulus-program-cost-more-than-the-Iraq-war-101302919.html

  45. Uh-OH, this just in and from CBS no less:

    CBS Congressional correspondent Nancy Cordes said the Democrats are distancing themselves from President Obama.

    “Not only are they running away from President Obama, they’re running away from being Democrats in some cases. In some races you actually see the Democratic candidates not really mentioning that they’re a Democrat in their campaign ads,” Cordes said.

    Smith asked his guests to try to identify the source of the discontent: “From your experience on the Hill, have you heard any Democrats in private conversations say, ‘You know what? We went down the wrong road. We went after health care. We went after so many other things on the Obama agenda as opposed to, in the end of the day, it’s all about creating jobs?'”

    “Not only have we heard that, but we’ve been hearing it for months,” said Cordes. “We heard it during the health care debate that dragged on for a year when the economy was so bad; they focused on health care and they focused on financial regulation. “

  46. dewilson says:

    Gosh guys and gals, do you think that the falling of Obama’s polls might have anything to do with a well-funded, well organized campaign to engage in ad hominen attacks against the man and to foment hatred and racism, even to the point of implying he is Muslim, and therefore a terrorist sympathizer??

    Just give a listen for a fews hours to the FOX News Propaganda Network (who recently gave $1 million to the Republican Governor’s Assoc.) and gave millions in free publicity to the Tea Partiers, not to mention providing their big names (Hannity, Beck, et al) to their rallies. Then there are all the thousands of radio stations carrying the hate talkers – Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, Savage, etc. And of course, the Citizens United group, funded by the Koch Brothers and headed by Dick Armey, with their phony astroturf ‘activism’ that bussed in well intented Americans to affairs like Beck’s 8/28 rally, where they’re duped into forsaking their own intererts and prosperity to the benefit of their corporate overlords.

    These people can’t run a government worth a darn, but they sure have the proganda schtick mastered and use their phony ploys of “patriotism”, religion, and fear like the grand master himself, Joseph Goebbels who said

    “”…the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly…it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

  47. Sumner401 says:

    a chance to be confused.

    They have never passed up one of those!

  48. theogsters says:

    Great insight, Karin. Thanks for speaking up to Obama’s (habitually angry, simple) critics.

  49. Sumner401 says:

    These people can’t run a government worth a darn, but they sure have the proganda schtick mastered and use their phony ploys of “patriotism”, religion, and fear like the grand master himself, Joseph Goebbels

    Fear, hate and propaganda is all the right has.

  50. Since the majority of writers from the Right on this board are admitted 18 Percenters who believe that Obama is a Muslim (and a Christian Black Liberation Theologist) and/or Birthers, any attempt to have a reasoned discussion with them is absurdist at best.

  51. What arrogant nonsense bBoy. I am a regular on this site and I do not believe Obama is a Muslim, nor do I think him a Black Liberation theologist (hardly) or a birther. He’s pretty much whatever he needs to be in the moment as far as I have observed.

    Get over yourself, Man.

  52. You gripe when folks turn to FOX news, then you ignore news from other sources. And then you insist that we all listen to FOX.

    How about we just watch and listen to the president himself and decide based on that?

  53. Sorry, the “you” in my last post was meant for dewilson

  54. nwcolorist says:

    Have you noticed that those who talk about hate the most are a few core bloggers – mainly dewilson, beerBoy, and sumner?

  55. Roncella says:

    All you Obama supporters just keep on supporting him.

    You voted and made him President now you must go on day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, defending all his mis- steps, mis-takes, terrible judgements, off the cuff remarks, Obamacare, border invasion by illegal mexicans, six vacations in less than 19 months, (while America has a 9.6% unployment) on and on and on….

    Its not all your fault, the lame stream media sold President Obama to the voters, never vetting him or looking into his qualifications to be President. He sounded great reading from his many tele-prompters, thats all it took.

    After a full four years in office Obama will no doubt be more ready to be President than today, lets hope so……!!!!

  56. hansgruber says:

    BeerBoy, I don’t think of Obama as a regiouls person at all. I do think he is the most liberal person ever to be elected President.

    Here is quote from a letter he wrote to the Dailey Kos:

    Tone, Truth, and the Democratic Party
    by Barack Obama
    Fri Sep 30, 2005
    “There is one way, over the long haul, to guarantee the appointment of judges that are sensitive to issues of social justice, and that is to win the right to appoint them by recapturing the presidency and the Senate.”

    “In order to beat them (the Republicans), it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in “appeasing” the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda. The country, finally knowing what we stand for and seeing a sharp contrast, will rally to our side and thereby usher in a new progressive era.”

    This isn’t even from Fox News!


  57. Roncella says:

    nwcolorist, You are correct, about that, the same three also like to use the word racist alot.

  58. iamjimbo says:

    Obama himself is an “18%”…


  59. iamjimbo says:

    Boy, the left sure could dish it during the last administration, but as has been noted here more than once… they sure are whiney babies when it’s directed there way.
    That and the hackneyed use of “racist” … pathetic.

  60. Sumner401 says:

    For someone who claims to ignore my comments and never read them one person here sure thinks she knows alot about me, my heros and every word I post.
    Honesty is not one of her strong points, I will say that.

  61. beerBoy says:

    sozo – why do you assume that everything that is written about the majority of Right wing posters on this site is about you?

    Recently iamjimbo outed himself as a believer that Obama is a Muslim. And he had fairly successfully masqueraded as a somewhat rational rightist. There are several others that don’t even come close to his level of rationality. So again, the majority is a fair appraisal.

  62. JungleBoy says:

    The fact that so many Americans are confused about Obama’s faith suggests, to me, that he has no God other than himself. It should be apparent to everyone who’s ever watched him give a news conference or whatever that he’s always using the word’s “me” and “I”. The man is in love with himself, plain and simple.

  63. I do believe that narcissism is not too strong a word to describe this president, though perhaps it’s too clinical. He’s arrogant, I’ll say…and I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the smoke-filled room with him and his pals after the cameras stop rolling. Not hard to imagine the tone and tenor.

  64. I actually feel bad for singling you out Sumner; I do try to ignore your slander, but you’re a bit like a bad wreck…I try to look away but can’t always do it.

    Perhaps if your commentary were just moderately thoughtful rather than just an emotional reaction to anything coming from right of center, people would actually consider what you have to say.

  65. JungleBoy says:

    Amen to that. Or should I say, “Allah Ahbar?”

  66. On the subject of focus-shifting, I appreciated these words about Labor Day from Chuck Colson, and I’d like to point out that they lend credence to the position I and others have taken regarding Christian efforts to care for and help the marginalized and disenfranchised. The characterization of Christians as selfish, greedy corporate execs is an unfair depiction of Christians at large. Here’s what Colson wrote:

    “Th[e] high view of work can be traced throughout the history of the Church. In the Middle Ages, the guild movement grew out of the Church. It set standards for good workmanship and encouraged members to take satisfaction in the results of their labor. The guilds became the forerunner of the modern labor movement.

    Later, during the Reformation, Martin Luther preached that all work should be done to the glory of God. Whether ministering the Gospel or scrubbing floors, any honest work is pleasing to the Lord. Out of this conviction grew the Protestant work ethic.

    Christians were also active on behalf of workers in the early days of the industrial revolution, when factories were “dark satanic mills,” to borrow a phrase from Sir William Blake. In those days, work in factories and coal mines was hard and dangerous. Men, women, and children were practically slaves—sometimes even chained to machines.

    Then John Wesley came preaching and teaching the Gospel throughout England. He came not to the upper classes, but to the laboring classes—to men whose faces were black with coal dust, women whose dresses were patched and faded.

    John Wesley preached to them—and in the process, he pricked the conscience of the whole nation.

    Two of Wesley’s disciples, William Wilberforce and Lord Shaftesbury, were inspired to work for legislation that would clean up abuses in the workplace. At their urging, the British parliament passed child-labor laws, safety laws, and minimum-wage laws.”

    Just as the American Civil Rights Movement was born in the heart of a Christian, so too were the efforts to advocate for the poor and the helpless.

  67. dewilson says:

    Sozo- There were no doubt many movements that serve social justice and the good of the common people that were inspired by Christ’s teachings, the abolitionists, Martin Luther King, Jr., Mother Teresa, and many others. Of course modern Christianity is not without it’s demogogues (Father Coughlin, Glenn Beck) and even domestic terrorists, i.e, the KKK.

    I’ll be the first to praise Christian efforts to help the least of us (Catholic Community Services is a great example, as well as religious efforts to help in natural emergencies). However, the American Christian Religiou Right certainly does not seem to carry out Christ’s admonitions to clothe the naked, feed the starving, and heal the sick. What we seem to hear from them is the message that a man’s wealth proves his blessings and rather than talk of tolerance and forgiveness they would rather encourage intolerance (anti-gay rights) and foment hatred for those not of their particular faith (Islamophobia). The Christian Right seems far more inclined to support the corporate agenda than they do Christ’s agenda.

  68. I believe Obomba is muslim because he has told us several times, and in so many ways himself.


    I believe what he says about himself. You can call him a liar if you want.

  69. iamjimbo says:

    “Recently iamjimbo outed himself …” stalker much? LOL! You crack me up…

  70. “Christian Religiou Right certainly does not seem to carry out Christ’s admonitions to clothe the naked, feed the starving, and heal the sick.” –dewilson

    You are simply dead wrong about this. A small percentage of Christians may fall into this narrow slot — a sort of perverse “prosperity theology”, but not many. Evangelical Christians are on the forefront of mission efforts to heal the sick, clothe the naked and feed the hungry as well as educate the young.

    Perhaps you hold the outdated notion that “missionaries” are only out to obliterate other cultures and force Western ideas on other people, all the while shoving the Bible down their throats. Not true.

    It won’t be easy, but if you hope to be an informed person on these matters, you MUST relinquish the caricature you have of conservative Christians. There are always rascals and rogues out there giving a bad name to others (and yes, we all hope that’s the case with Islamic terrorists too).

  71. Roncella says:
    “Its not all your fault, the lame stream media sold President Obama to the voters, never vetting him or looking into his qualifications to be President. He sounded great reading from his many tele-prompters, thats all it took.”

    Roncella, I’m going to tell again, so listen up. It was not the “lame stream media” or the “ignurnt electorate” that was responsible for the election of president Obama. It was your heroes of the previous eight years that bogged us down in an Iraq war that was suppose to have lasted less than six months, and for passing the drug bill that benefited drug companies more than individuals, and for the tax breaks benefiting mostly the rich, all of which pilfered the treasury and mortgaged your childrens future. And there was a series of scandals of immorality by Republicans, who hypocritaclly had won election by claiming God on their side. And to top it off, your heroes ended their shift by throwing the country into a serious recession.

    Who could blame a yearning for change by the American people in 2008. And what candidates did the Republicans offer? More of the same. Who wanted it. Any Democrat would have won that election.

  72. dewilson says:

    Sozo – I would like to believe that the vast majority of Christians truly try to live by Christ’s teachings, and I have heard some moderating voices and those who speak of tolerance and even love in the spirit of Jesus regarding persons of other faiths and ethnic groups. However, I have to say that the Christian Religious Right seems to be far more vociferous and inclined to use their “righteousness” as a club to justify intolerance (attacking gay rights) and even hatred (Islamophobia). They are therefore useful recruits for the Republicans who give enough lip service to “social conservative causes” to get the religious right to support the kind of corporate agenda that I believe would throw Christ into a rage.

  73. hansgruber: Interesting how you provided us with the only quotes from Obama’s diary that actually conflicted with the diary’s general context, in order to bolster right wing talking points.

    Having read “Tone, Truth, and the Democratic Party” from the link you provided, gives insight, at least to me, into Obama’s complexity, intelligence and character, all of which have been misrepresented by right wing media, and folks who comment here.


  74. beerBoy says:

    If Obama really was a socialist then the Left wouldn’t be so disenchanted with him for extending Bush policies.

    Nothing quite like blaming the victim: The fact that so many Americans are confused about Obama’s faith suggests, to me, that he has no God other than himself. Care to explain why so many still reject the Hawaii birth certificate and birth announcement in a Hawaii paper? How is that Obama’s fault?

    The circular logic of the Obamaphobes is impervious to fact or logic.

  75. “throw Christ into a rage,” you say. I actually agree that there’s plenty of corporate greed and lust that would enrage Christ, but no more than some other things going on around here that have nothing at all to do with conservatives or Christians.

    And probably, he’d be more inclined to weep, especially when he observes the mess we’ve made for our children who, I think, are confused and angry.

  76. beerBoy says:

    sozo – the term conservative means so many things to so many people that it becomes almost useless.

    A fiscal conservative may or may not believe in neo-liberal economic theory and oftentimes is rather disdainful of conservationists who wish to conserve natural resources. Their alliance with social conservatives is oftentimes not really based in shared belief systems, especially if the conservative is libertarian.

    I would venture to say that the term Christian is likewise rather broad.

  77. donjames says:

    “Care to explain why so many still reject the Hawaii birth certificate and birth announcement in a Hawaii paper? How is that Obama’s fault?”

    Uhmmm, because hillary clinton did such a good job of starting the rumor in the run-up to the democrat convention?

    Interesting dichotomy though; in the world of 0bama, useful idiots – including relatives and pastors – get tossed under the bus, while challengers are offered/ rewarded with cabinet positions (hillary, biden, sestack, etc, etc). Makes me feel like taking a bath.

  78. Sumner401 says:

    Useful idiots, yes most on the right are in fact idiots and very useful to the party.

  79. donjames says:

    And speaking of needing a bath, that would certainly be a most “useful” undertaking for the otherwise otiose zip code.


  80. Sumner401 says:

    Perhaps if your commentary were just moderately thoughtful rather than just an emotional reaction to anything coming from right of center, people would actually consider what you have to say.

    Shifting focus to others and away from your hypocrisy?

  81. dewilson says:

    Sozo – Christ said, “Man can not serve two masters. He can serve only one, God or Mammon.” To serve God is to do good works for mankind and preserve God’s creation, the Earth. I think this is the great divide for our public policy debate – those who believe government should protect and serve the “general welfare” of the people are on one side of the chasm and those who believe that government should preserve and protect the power and profitibility of the corporations (i.e., unfettered capitalism) are those who serve Mammon. (Remember, Christ’s only rage was directed at the money changers, the capitalists of the era.)

    Christ was the greatest liberal to ever walk the face of the Earth, a great leader in defining and promoting social justice, an incredible “community organizer”, and the ultimate “hug-a-thug” proponent. Yet our right wing friends mock such sentiments and are much more inclined to worship the “invisible hand” of capitalism that they claim is benign (if not helpful) to mankind and Earth because it is somehow self-regulating. Obviously, the greatest exploitation of mankind and God’s creation, the Earth, has come at the hands of those who serve Mammon. (Witness the global climate crisis that the left is trying to warn mankind about and the denial that is so well-funded by the great Mammon-servants, the Koch brothers.)

    It is therefore amazing to me that so many of our Christian Right(eous) are far more inclined to fall in with the Conservo-Republicans than the liberal left. But then, upon reflection it’s clear that that alliance advances their power even if it doesn’t advance the philosophy of Christ, but that is what they’re really after anyway. Their service is to Mammon, not God.

  82. Zillahboy says:

    Why do some people think that President Obama might be a Muslim? Well, if you walk a duck, swim like a duck, and quack like a duck………………..

  83. dewilson, here’s the funny thing about folks embracing Christ as their role model. You do know he claimed to be the Son of God, right? Are you suggesting that this man, either divine, deceptive or demented (choose one) operated in any way on a political plane?

    In what passage of the Bible do you find him tinkering with government systems?

    In what passage do you find him functioning as a “community organizer” in any way resembling our president’s former career?

    Christ was indeed a radical, and you are absolutely right, there’s plenty in the Bible to warn us as to how God feels about greed and the oppression of others; also the neglect of those in need.

    (Surely you are not so naive as to think that all that corporate greed and corruption is exclusive to “the right?” It’s always been a source of embarrasment to the Democrats, I should think, to have Limousine Liberals advocating for the poor and the environment from the steps of their mansions and Lear jets!)

    The message from Christ is directed TO THE INDIVIDUAL, never to the government…”sell all that you have an follow me,” he said. And when the man chose NOT to do so, Christ was sorrowful, but he did NOTHING to tax the man’s wealth and redistribute it to the poor. Nor did he do anything to suggest that this would be a right(eous) response.

    So, this man you so admire, dewilson, the one who said he was The Messiah, the one who grew up a Jew and fully embraced promises made to Israel — this IS the man you hold up for the rest of us to emulate?

  84. Zillahboy Why do some people think that President Obama might be a Muslim? Well, if you walk a duck, swim like a duck, and quack like a duck………………..

    How incredibly appropriate that you would use a phrase made famous during the hysteria surrounding the House UnAmerican Committee witch hunts to rationalize the Obama as Muslim nonsense.

  85. iamjimbo says:

    Boy, this thread has really drifted…

  86. Sumner401 says:

    Why do some people think that President Obama might be a Muslim?

    Because they are idiots.

  87. dewilson says:

    Sozo – First of all, I do not accept the ‘miracles of Christ’, i.e. that he is the son of God, that he is ‘the’ Messiah’, that he could heal the sick and restore sight to the blind, nor did his death absolve us of sins, nor did he rise from death. Those are all spiritual notions that can only be accepted on faith.

    What I admire about Christ’s teachings is the basic philosophy that expects all mankind to care about others, that they are equal in God’s eyes, and that all men should be judged on how they treat the least of us. It was quite obvious that Christ’s only concern was the welfare of mankind and he abhorred the rich and the church leaders who only exploited the common people to advance their wealth and power. He obviously created enough of a following for the power structure to fear an uprising and therefore saw the need to crucify him, and hence he was, to my mind, the ultimated “community organizer”, although not in the political sense. He clearly eshewed governmental involvement, but sought the general welfare through each person’s caring for others and thereby serving God. (In that respect, I agree with you about the individual’s concern for another).

    Of course corporate greed is not limited to Republicans; our entire Congress has been corrupted by the undue influence of corporate money. However, there can be little debate that the preponderance of corporate contributions go to the Republicans who have had a long-term, incestuous relationship with K-Street and who serve as dedicated shills for corporate interests (deregulation, generous tax incentives, the bank bailouts, obscene CEO salaries, reductions in benefits, fighting minimum wage, opposition to health care reform, opposition to environmental controls, etc.) These later serve Mammon, not God, and the Religious Right are their allies.

    Bottom line: IMHO, Jesus Christ would be far more inclined to support liberal policies than those espoused by Conservo-Republicans even though the right likes to invoke Christ’s name at every opportunity in order to veil their real servitude to Mammon. (By their works, ye shall know them.)

  88. For all my time spent studying the Bible, and that would be hundreds upon hundred of hours, I would not say for sure where Christ would stand politically. My sense is that he would no doubt stand firmly outside the bounds of political crap altogether.

    As for Christ’s only concern being the welfare of mankind, I’m not sure just what you mean by that, but what do you make of these words from Christ?

    “I am the way, the truth and the light; no on e comes to the Father except through me.”

  89. Correct me if I’m wrong dewilson but it seems you admire and respect a man who was either a liar or a lunatic or both.

  90. So by not correcting me, may we assume I was correct in understanding your admiration for Jesus who boldly claimed to be “one with the Father?”

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