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MOSQUE: Shame on un-Christian Christians

Letter by Darcy L. Wright, Gig Harbor on Aug. 27, 2010 at 1:09 pm with 48 Comments »
August 27, 2010 1:40 pm

God surely cries out in vain to followers of Islam and Christianity: “You spew hatred in my name?”

Hateful behavior within religion should be as oil is to water. “Hate thy neighbor”? No.

Since 9/11, many have asked: “Why aren’t Muslims rising up to reject extremist ideologies that go against the faith?”

If the mosque-near-ground-zero project was seeded in the spirit of standing against destructive forces that would hijack Islam and with a heart toward modeling the best of Islam, then shame on those who jump to the worst conclusions in their eagerness to bring down President Obama, a potentially healing force.

When followers remind their peers and leaders of the common denominators of faith – essentially the Ten Commandments and their equivalents – refusing to support them when they deviate, this makes things right with God, whatever the religion.

I’ve watched, mystified and mortified, as so many churches that declare themselves “Christian” magnify the worst in human character, naked hatred, in front of God and everybody. They behave like heathens, in ironic parallel to what is happening within Islam.

If the purpose of the mosque is to bring healing, I have some advice for the Muslim visionaries: Take a marketing course and start from scratch.

And a bit of advice for Christians-gone-wild as well: Pray for your souls.

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Leave a comment Comments → 48
  1. JungleBoy says:

    Darcy, you seem to be enamored with the Islamic faith. Maybe you’d get a clearer picture what Islam stands for if you but on a bhurka (sp?) and move to Saudi Arabia. My guess is you’d be singing “Amazing Grace, How Sweet the Sound” within a month of your arrival. Shortly thereafter you’d be on the plane home to the U.S.A.

  2. Darcy_ Where on Earth are you coming from??? The 10 Commandments are nowhere to be found in the Qur’an and to what new translation of Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5 are you referring? The new “Liberal” tactic is to characterize any questioning , disagreement or the calling of B.S. (which, in your case, I am doing) as “hatred” (ho hum), “bigotry ( yawn) “phobia”(rolling eyes). I will direct you to PLEASE READ the Hadiths, Sira, and the 114 Surahs in chronological order. Please read the Bible, too after you’ve turned off Oprah and Olberman. The inaccurate claim by those who apparently cannot read for themselves that Christianity and Islam are somehow”shared, equal and practically identical” just because Islam claims origin from Abraham (2600 years AFTER Abram’s name was changed) is like saying that all printed material says the same thing, according to your thought process. It’s YOUR intolerance of those who have actually gotten off the couch to study what Islam and Christianity actually say about themselves that is amazing. Allah is not the same god as God. Jesus is not only “son-of-Mary”-He is fully man and fully Devine-Son of God. Mohamed is not. Mohamed did not live a sinless life to die for our sins, Jesus did. Just a few absolute differences to which your Christaphobia is preventing you from ascending. They, and you have a right to build or believe in anything you want, that was never the issue, my dear. But please arrive at a discussion…prepared…

  3. I have to say Lars, that if ever there was mass hysteria and phobia directed at a religion, it would be that directed against conservative Christians. There’s enough prejudiice, misinformation and bigotry on these pages alone to plug up the Suez Canal, but will those immersed in the bigotry admit it?

  4. iamjimbo says:

    I have to say Darcy… colorful, yet overly dramatic… lite on fact, with a hint of ‘Obama is messia’ overtones.
    .
    A+ lars

  5. larsman, I know that you have not the slightest clue about what is in the Quran, so I present this information for your edification. The Ten Commandments are found in several different versions in the Bible, and really encompass about 15-20 different prohibitions or “orders” from God. Here are some similar prohibitions and “orders” found in the Quran. In fact, the Quran tells Muslims to follow the tablets of the old religion of Abraham, and scholars of Islam take this to mean the Ten Commandments.

    1.
    “There is no other god beside GOD,”(47:19)
    He is the one God; there is no other god beside Him. ……(28:70)
    2.
    Protect me and my children from worshiping idols. (14:35)
    3.
    Do not subject GOD’s name to your casual swearing, that you may appear righteous, pious, or to attain credibility among the people. (2:224)
    4.
    . Your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, the slightest gesture of annoyance, nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably. (17:23)
    5.
    Thievery is a crime. The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. (5:38 – 39)
    6.
    He will incur GOD’s condemnation upon him, if he was lying. (24:7)
    Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. Anyone who withholds a testimony is sinful at heart. (2:283)
    7.
    “You shall not kill any person – for God has made life sacred – except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice.
    8.
    You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behaviour. (17:32)
    9.
    Do not covet what we bestowed upon any other people. Such are temporary ornaments of this life, whereby we put them to the test. What your Lord provides for you is far better, and everlasting.(20:131)
    10.
    O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. . (62:9) (Of course, the “Sabbath” was specifically done away with by the Angel Gabriel in the Quran.)

    Before you call “B.S.” you might want to check you facts.

  6. Sumner401 says:

    I have to say Lars, that if ever there was mass hysteria and phobia directed at a religion, it would be that directed against conservative Christians. There’s enough prejudiice, misinformation and bigotry on these pages alone to plug up the Suez Canal, but will those immersed in the bigotry admit it?

    The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
    You don’t even try to hide it any more do you?

    I do have to ask if you even read this stuff before you post it?

  7. Sumner401 says:

    Nice work tuddo, but you know it will fall on deaf ears.

  8. iamjimbo says:

    So the quran copied the good parts of the bible and added a bunch of violent jihad 72 virgin (didn’t specify sex or gender identification… kooky in and of itself) b.s. religion of peace malarchy….

  9. iamjimbo says:

    … I forgot… allahu akbar… BOOM.

  10. Explain again ij how your posts are based in “respect” and “sensitivity” and aren’t hateful, phobic, bigoted, etc…..

    And….do you really need to be reminded that the Bible has more of those “kooky” and “violent” sections than the Quran?

    Larsman…..weren’t you recently criticizing the critics of Judeo-Christian excess for not being fully apprised of Scripture. Applying your own standards, you really should stop attempting to say anything about Islam before spending some serious time with the Quran.

  11. iamjimbo says:

    • beerBoy2 wrote on 06/18/2009 10:46:33 AM:
    Just to remind the humor-impaired: comedy rarely is inoffensive to all

  12. iamjimbo says:

    I am no more “hateful, phobic, bigoted, etc…..” toward the religion of islam than you are of jews or Christianity… applying your own standards that is.

  13. If that is what you want to believe…..

  14. iamjimbo says:

    beerBoy wrote on 08/28/2010 07:04:23 AM:
    It ain’t name-calling if it is true

  15. “I have to say Lars, that if ever there was mass hysteria and phobia directed at a religion, it would be that directed against conservative Christians.”

    In the light of these posts about Muslims, sozo, it appears that Christians have nothing to worry about.

  16. Darcy, Christians who study the whole Bible (rather than lift a line or two here and there to support their views) will tell you that the larger narrative of the human race as recorded in scripture points to repeated apostasy — turning away from God — and the consequences contained therein.

    If I see a Mack truck heading for one of my kids, I’m going to do everything I can to stop it. If that Mack truck happens to be an insidious relilgion or philosophy, it matters not to me. I am going to sound a tocsin about the dangers of that truck whether you think it’s dangerous or not.

    Okay?

  17. Two things that bug me about your last post, sozo:

    1. the vagary in which you refer to as the “consequences” of turning away from God.

    2. the vague association between “an insidious relilgion or philosophy” and the subject at hand, which is the Muslim religion.

    Are you insinuating that there are consequences associated with NOT being a Christian? If so, what are they?

    Are you actually saying that you consider the Muslim religion to be an insidious religion?

  18. ij – there is a huge difference between truthiness and truth.

  19. sozo – if you continue to claim that Islam is a Mack truck headed for our children, and an insidious religion, then you need to accept that you are going to be seen as hateful, bigoted, Islamophobic, and fearful.

    OK?

  20. Roncella says:

    Why all the name calling by the supporters of the Mosque ? We all agree that legally Muslims have a right to build their Mosque where ever they want to.

    All that most Americans want is for the Emam to reconsider the location so close to the attack by extreme Muslim Terrorists on 9-11.

    Shame on the Mayor of New York for his name calling and nasty remarks about those opposed to the location of the Mosque so close to the sacred ground where 3,000 people were murdered on 9-11.

  21. And it’s a sign of Muslim good will to insist on building a mosque where none is wanted ? Right, and Charlie Rangel is looking out for you, chump.

  22. Sumner401 says:

    roncella, do you see the ‘name calling’ by the far right christians that oppose a community center 5 blocks from ground zero?
    Or are you blind to it?

  23. iamjimbo says:

    “…it appears that Christians have nothing to worry about.”

    Unless, of course, they try to practice their religion in a muslim country… like Iran.

  24. dewilson says:

    If these God-fearing, people loving-Christians are in fact, not undertaking blatant acts of bigotry regarding Muslims, why do they find it necessary to exaggerate or lie about the facts relating to the proposed Cordoba house, which they love to refer to as Obama’s Victory Mosque at Ground Zero –
    It’s not Obama’s (nor is Obama a Muslim), it’s not celebrating a “victory; it’s not a Mosque, and it’s not at Ground Zero, nor is the Muslim who supports it an extremist Muslim but a moderate who is trying to build bridges between Muslims and Christians. But these facts don’t fit their meme to demonize all Muslims and blame them for 9/11. So the partisans and the FOX Network pundits lie daily about the Muslims and Obama to keep Islamophobia at a fever pitch, because it serves their partisan agenda.

  25. iamjimbo says:

    If people continue to rely on calling others they disagree with bigot, islamaphobe, etc. … they will continue their march toward irrelevance.

  26. “Polago says:
    August 28, 2010 at 10:24 am
    2. the vague association between “an insidious relilgion or philosophy” and the subject at hand, which is the Muslim religion.
    Are you actually saying that you consider the Muslim religion to be an insidious religion?”

    Excellent! Thanks for your effort. I noticed no response.
    Bigots who open their mouths often enough eventually fail in their efforts to hide their true nature. Some, like Beck, don’t even care.

  27. dewilson says:

    ij says: “If people continue to rely on calling others they disagree with bigot, islamaphobe, etc. … they will continue their march toward irrelevance.”

    How is that ij? Bigotry and religious persecution has been at the root of wars and the cruel deaths of millions of innocents over the centuries. Are you suggesting the outrageous accusations and lies being perpetrated about Islam in general and the NY “Mosque” in particular are not clear indications of Islamophobia and religious persecution.

    Note the recent stabbing of a Muslim taxi driver, vandalism and protests against Mosques in other states, and the proposed burning of Quorans by a Pastor in Florida. I wonder – do you condemn those actions or applaud them?

  28. “iamjimbo says:
    August 28, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    If people continue to rely on calling others they disagree with bigot, islamaphobe, etc. … they will continue their march toward irrelevance.”
    jimbo, you are missing the point. The fact that there is a disagreement is beside the point. It is what is being said AND how it is being said that matters. It is the intolerance and narrow-mindedness exhibited by some against a valid system of values. You see, my good man, the Christian value system is not the only valid one around, believe it or not. When sozo attacks Muslims she puts herself squarely inside the quotation marks for the definition of bigot. I can’t agree with her for it would make me a bigot too. So, disagreement is the only choice and it is automatic. And I’m not even a Muslim. Imagine what a Muslim takes away from sozo’s comment.
    I would never use the label, bigot, for someone who disagreed with my economic principles as long as my skin color or religion or ethnicity stayed out of the discussion. See how easy that was.

  29. Well, I understand that we are all supposed to play nice, and by playing nice we are obligated to follow the rules set forth by the PC police, so it is no surprise that people dance around when trying to express themselves on this subject, so I’ll be as frank as I can. Let me start with a question:

    Is it not true that one of the missions of Islam is to see the world governed according to the theology of Islam? A global Taliban, if you will.

    If so, you may rest assured that I will not play nice in my assessment of their mission. And that, yes, I do find this an insidious threat to the freedoms I hold dear as an American citizen (including, I hasten to add, my agreement that the folks in NYC have every right to build their “community center” wherever they like).

    If I’m wrong about this objective, I will most gladly concede. However, do remember that one of the characteristics of insidiousness is deceit, so I’m not interested much in what the NY imam says about his reasons for wanting this mosque built so near GZ; people say what they need to say when “the end justifies the means.”

    My understanding of this mission comes from readings from the Koran, though I do not pretend to be an authority on the whole body of scripture of Islam.

    Feel free to set me straight if I am mistaken. Meanwhile, I will treat the mirage of a mack truck as the real thing for the time being.

  30. Polago, the first part of your response here confuses me (grammatically) : “the vagary in which [I] refer to the “consequences” of turning away from God” — ???

    Perhaps you meant to delete the word “in.”

    The consequences to which I refer can be summed up with the term “self-destruction” I suppose. Man’s ego and hubris will be our undoing in my opinion. And his lust for self-gratification.

    It is the blatant lack of humility among certain members of what I will call the intellectually elite — their arrogance and reliance on only that which they can prove empirically, or think they can prove (for the time being, until some new scientific discovery trumps the one they’ve been living by up till then).

    There is knowledge as in “information” and there is “knowing” which I believe grows out of a posture of humility before God and a dependence upon God.
    The Bible says that the wisdom of the world is folly to God and the wisdom of God is folly to the world.

    Narcissism is perhaps the best word to describe the posture a world out of touch with God. IMO…note, IMO

  31. iamjimbo says:

    “I would never use the label, bigot, for someone who disagreed with my economic principles… ” … ummm , goodey. So you’ll hang another label on them, like Greedy. What’s the diff?

    Keep it up …

    “Imagine what a Muslim takes away from sozo’s comment.”…
    are you refering to a male muslim??? Because there’s a good chance that the female muslim can’t read or if she can she wouldn’t admit it for fear of being stoned….

  32. iamjimbo says:

    “against a valid system of values”… ummm , what would that be ???

  33. iamjimbo says:

    …sharia?

  34. sozo, you ask: Is it not true that one of the missions of Islam is to see the world governed according to the theology of Islam? A global Taliban, if you will.

    The answer to that is ,”no, it is not true”, and I ahve presented plenty of factual evidence that it is not true. The imam of the community center has said that the Constitution of the US is already protection enoutgh for Muslims and is compatible with Islam. So, even if it were true, many people believe that spreading our Constitutional values of religius freedom would be sufficient. Now, what may be true is that Islam actively recruits and wants to be the dominant world religion. But one can say that about Chrstians, too, and many Muslims feel the same way you do. They will fight to the death to protect their religion.

    And so, you play the dishonest and disgusting game of “please don’t give me any facts because whatever is presented to me I will label as ‘deceit'”. Yours is the worse kind of hatred and bigotry since it is based on hypocrisy and a total dereliction of Christian values. You condemn a man and a whole group without any cause except your own intolerance.

    If you can show me that this imam is decitful, please do so. I will gladly concede the argument to you. I have waited this whole discussion for any evidence, but all the opposition presents are name calling and lies, so try once more. I’m patient.

  35. ij is trying to impose his version of political correctness….there are certain words you cannot use because they hurt his feelings.

    Perhaps, if you change the words that you type there would be no reason for anyone to respond with those words.

  36. I do not pretend to be an authority on the whole body of scripture of Islam.

    Just those parts that make Islam look bad.

    Again sozo – you complain that critics of your brand of Christianity pick and choose certain Biblical verses to make literalist, fundamental Christianity look bad yet you feel it appropriate to do that to Islam.

    There is a word that describes your behavior in regards to respect for religion: hypocrite.

  37. iamjimbo says:

    I have no idea what you are talking about B.

    Now that I think about it… it’s the left that are hyper sensative word police.

  38. I was honest about my lack of thoroughgoing knowledge of the Koran, b, and that alone creates a distinction between me and those who prooftext from the Bible. Not for you of course, but the distinction matters to me.

    tuddo, I pray that I am dead wrong about Muslims. I am not yet convinced that I am, but whether you believe it or not, I truly do hope I am wrong.

  39. Sumner401 says:

    Is it not true that one of the missions of Islam is to see the world governed according to the theology of Islam? A global Taliban, if you will.

    Only in the same sense that you christian have the same wish and goal.
    Once you can admit to that you can begin to the hypocrisy and the elitism in your posts and your attitude.

  40. We are agreed that those who would build a community center a couple of blocks from the so-called Ground Zero are at once Muslims and Americans. We are agreed that as Americans, the proponents have rights equal to those of any other American. A group that includes fundamentalist Christians.

    We believe that a reduction of any right affects all who have rights including that right. Thus, an American can propose any structure and expect to have a right to continue towards completion if that proponent meets the stipulated requirements.

    And it is also so that a Christian cannot believe in innocence, having learned that in Adam’s Fall Sinned We All, thus we do not believe that innocent lives were taken by criminals driving stolen aircraft into buildings or the ground. And we do not take seriously any comment that includes the word “sacred” ground.

    We acknowledge the tendency to spew words recklessly when ordinary checks and balances are removed from our emotions.

    Finally, unless we choose to fund the purchase of the property in question we have little to say. Especially since none of live near NYC.

  41. sozo-
    After reviewing your previous comments, can you honestly tell me that you’re loving your enemies, and letting God handle what He must?

    I’m not judging you, but it seems as if you’re letting your anger get the best of you.

    You’ve commented many times about the persecution of Christians..I would argue that self-described Christians have done more damage to Christianity than anything else.

    IMO, I don’t think God is happy that people use His name to hate those they don’t understand…be it Muslims, gay people, or whatever. Now, you may say that your comments aren’t derived from hate, but I doubt you can tell me they’re derived from love.

    Matthew 5
    43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighborh and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous

  42. Lars, I understand your perception, and indeed, I did let my anger get the better of me yesterday. Interestingly, just this morning in worship I felt the sting of conviction about that very thing.

    I am often confused by the call to love our enemies and the mandate to hate evil. Before anyone jumps on that, let me say that I really mean it when I say that I hope I’m dead wrong about the mission of Islam — and I’m not ready to slap the label of evil on this religion. I am wary…but not of the people. I am wary of the belief system that dictates the conduct of the people. I abhor the way women are treated as dictated by this belief system, for instance.

    And yes, I am deeply saddened by evil done in the name of Christ. I know that some Christians have blackened the name of our religion and left horrible, permanent scars on the hearts of men and women. But if bigotry is as tuddo defines it, there is bigotry aplenty aimed at Christians in general because of the conduct of a few.

    I am also very very tired of Christians being shushed; cowering in corners for fear of being called intolerant when there are some things in this brutal world that none of us SHOULD tolerate.

    I hate duplicity. I have respect for people who say what they believe and mean it; when their conduct reflects whatt hey believe. I have NO respect for people who say one thing and do another which is why I have been concerned by what I’ve been reading lately about what appears duplicitous among some mainstream Muslims. I’d rather have a conversatin with a committed atheist than a religious leader wearing a mask.

    And lars, I appreciate your calling me on this in the way that you did. I am truly repentant of what sounded and felt hateful. I want to be wrong about the religion, but regardless of that, I pray that God will protect me from ill feelings towards any of his children.

  43. Roncella says:

    Sozo, Many of my feelings mirror yours on the debate you have been having.

    I don’t believe you are far off in your reservations about the Emams and some Muslims hiding behind Islam to push their agenda including Sharia Law into more and more Mosques in America and around the World

    .
    We have so many more freedoms in America then most Muslim Countries allow and some Muslims are taking advantage of that.

  44. SOZO. Among matters of the mind: evil is no more no less than absence of perfection. All that is made is evil, being of necessity imperfect. Thus, your only course is: let the dead bury the dead.

    Surely you did see the beginning of error on the part of America when we unleashed our military might against nations that had not harmed America.

    Surely you do see that when America is not so present in several countries which share some form of the Muslim value system, America will not readily inflame the passions of citizens of those beknighted nations.

  45. Oh, it may occur to you that some who share your features are not children of God but rather children of Men. At the least they are Gentiles, at worst they are Infidels. But of the total, some number are Americans who have every right that you claim for yourself despite the difference in religion-value systems.

  46. I have no idea what you are talking about B.

    I very much doubt this is the first time.

  47. Just realized it was loz and not Lars who inquired about my seeming lack of love for my enemies. Apologies.

  48. Yes, and I appreciated your honesty on the subject.

    I’ll disappear from this site for another few months again. Cheers.

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