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MOSQUE: We shouldn’t fear Islamic center

Letter by Robert Scott Smith, Lake Tapps on Aug. 16, 2010 at 2:20 pm with 95 Comments »
August 16, 2010 2:28 pm

Charles Krauthammer made many compelling arguments against the location of an Islamic center near the World Trade Center site (column, 8-12). Fundamentally, he believes that it would dishonor those who died there on Sept. 11, 2001.

I disagree. The greatest disrespect we could show to the victims of that attack is to give into the fear Islamic jihadists would like to sow. We are the nation on Earth most celebrated for our ability to accommodate differences of religious belief in our national fabric. If, in the shadow of Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty, we begin to fear a particular religion, the zealots will have succeeded in one of their goals. And ultimately zealotry knows no religious, political or geographic boundaries.

Don’t fear it; we are stronger than that.

Leave a comment Comments → 95
  1. jandkgibbs says:

    Do you wonder why Obama has no problem with the Ground Zero Mosque. Watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

  2. This has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with respect. If these Muslims want to be respectful, they need to back off and put their mosque elsewhere, not three blocks from a site of mass murder perpetrated by Islamic radicals. They should follow Pope John Paul’s example; he asked a group of nuns to move their convent away from Auschwitz because of a similiar controversy (the difference, of course, is that nuns never murdered Jews). Our Muslim friends in Manhattan can learn from that example.

    Islamic radicals around the globe will do a victory dance when this mosque is built. They will be emboldened and consider it a sign of Western weakness. If you doubt that, you haven’t been paying attention for the last 1500 years.

  3. Roncella says:

    Robert, Your thinking plays right into the hands of those Muslims who would see this new Mosque as a victory for them. Why won’t they show respect for the families who lost loved ones on 9-11 ?

    Your not thinking about the feelings and the “daily hurt” that the family and friends of those killed on 9-11 have to endure.

    They have a right to build where they want to, but you have to ask yourself, Why do they want to build so close to the destruction and death that extreme violent Muslims on 9-11 caused to that particular area of New York, Why ?

    The Muslim leader of this Mosque has made nasty remarks about America deserving 9-11 and some other comments. Who is paying for the New Mosque, where is the Money coming from ?

  4. modyfied says:

    The Muslims are laughing at us, alst the while building a tax-free “mosque” using it to launder and distribute money under the name of religion, and plotting another 9/11.
    They say”oh, we are not extremists””we’re innocent” Cant we see past this? Study their history? See they are repeat offenders?
    This is in line with putting a child molester next to a school yard, or better yet, giving him a license for a daycare.
    We punish repeat offenders, and develop systems to prevent events from repeating, as much as we can. Freedom of religion?
    Sure.
    Let me interpret MY religion into something evil and see how long I can get away with it….

  5. Roncella says:

    Jand, I watched the video you referenced.

    Its all true, however the Obama supporters who post here will not comprehend or understand or believe the information coming to them. They will defend and make excuses for President Obama.

    Notice how quick President Obama came to the defense of the Muslims right to locate their mosque anywhere they want.

    Yet he never mentioned the rights of the Families who lost so many loved ones by the hands of violent Muslims who were responsibile for the destruction of the Twinn Trade Towers in New York City.

  6. modyfied says:

    And to be equal, NO religion has EVER condoned murder, it is the interpretation of it that gets man killed….

  7. Can anyone guess what the last words out of the mouths of those terrorist were just before hitting the towers? Could those words have been “Allah akbar”? Don’t try to convince me that this issue is anything less than one religion trying to impose it’s will on the rest of the world.

  8. jandkgibbs, thank you for sharing that very enlightening look at what the fools in this country have put into office. I can only hope that this country will survive a couple more years of this sordid administration.

  9. sixpackjoe says:

    It’s a freakin’ building, respect shespect, it can go both ways why don’t you have respect for the religion, why don’t you have respect for the dead. Good lord, it’s a building where peaceful people will do peaceful things. You faux news watcher’s really have your panties in a bunch, grow up and stop spreading your hate and lies. It’s a building, not even by ground zero, get a life. If you think Muslims will be celebrating all across the world and be laughing in your faces, they already are because those types of evil doer’s like the way you act. Real American’s live by the creed this country was built on.

    Mark my words, if this building doesn’t get built due to these Faux News fear mongols, then America has lost more of what it should be proud of. If it get’s built, then I am a proud Christian, and even a PROUDER AMERICAN… you know… like the one’s that really live up to the Constitution of the US.

  10. Your fear, bigotry and Islamaphobia are NOT a reason for us to ignore the 1st Amendment.

    Why do so-called conservatives hate the Constitution?

  11. Roncella says:

    sixpackjoe, Your so wrong. Where are your concerns and feelings for the families who lost loved ones at the hands of violent Muslims on 9-11, Where ?

    Why, with a country as large as America and a State as large as New York do the muslims want to build a new Mosque so close to the 9-11 Destruction, Why ??

  12. sixpackjoe, when parts of that building was hit by debris from the airliner and it crashed through two stories of that building, that makes it a part of Ground Zero. It’s time for you to go get a re-load on that six-pack dude.

  13. The founder of Ham-as(s) says “The mosque must be built there” and that Jews and Christians can build anywhere they want….Like Mecca? huh, beerboy, right 6-pack? Hey you two, do you even know what and where the Hagia Sophia is? Know what it means( put your self confessed beer down Kos-junkies)? Neither of you know enough about world history or geography to attempt to grapple with any of this, and no I’m not a (R) or a ‘fox’ addict.

    1) build a Synagogue and Church in Mecca and renovate the mosque in (formerly known as Istanbul) Constantinople
    2) build a Synagogue and Church in the same location at the same height as the proposed NY mosque and finally
    3) Remove al aqsa and replace it with THE TEMPLE in the same location as Solomon’s.
    Thank for the links , janjkgibbs.
    Finally…
    There, mutual tolerance at last. Thanks for the big O.K. there, Hamas.

  14. comment_tayter says:

    I’m as easy-going a person as you’d ever care to meet, but there should be no mosque in the WTC.

    Why not just put up a monument to the ‘Noble Japanese Airmen’ on the walkway over the Arizona? Or run up the flag of the Third Reich at the cemetery in Normandy?

    Phooey!

  15. Love O’Bama’s stuttering comments ( Israeli PM gets the back door, while he bows to the Saudi king) , follow the $…

  16. lovethemountains says:

    ozark, you are exactly right. It has nothing to do with fear, it is a matter of respect and sensitivity. We, in this country, are always hammered about being sensitive to others, especially “minorities” but it seems respect and sensitivity on the part of those “minorities” is not a consideration.

  17. lovethemountains says:

    BTW, beerBoy and sixpackjoe are strange fellows for being totally oblivious to the fact that no one is proposing to alter the First Amendment. We are talking about sensitivity and understanding that is constantly preached to the white Christian citizens of this country but seems to be a suggestion totally off limits when it comes to “minorities” of other faiths and/or ethnicity. Why the one way street aleboys?

  18. lovethemountains…agreed. There’s a blindspot here that I can’t figure.

    bboy’s comment and question here: “Your fear, bigotry and Islamaphobia are NOT a reason for us to ignore the 1st Amendment.

    Why do so-called conservatives hate the Constitution? ”

    make no sense in light of the repeated statements that no one is quibbling about rights.

    What IS your problem bBoy?

  19. It has nothing to do with fear, but a lot to do with just being ignorant and on the wrong side of just about everything. Why do any favors for those who would rather kill you than just behead you.

  20. Pat_riot says:

    Nothing to do with fear buck-O, its a matter of respect.

  21. iamjimbo says:

    Why do so called Americans hate America? Why do so called agnostics love islam?

    Kooky.

  22. If we lose the First Amendment and what it means through this process, then the terrorists have won. If this is such holy ground and religioons need to respect the 9/11 site, then lets call for all the churches that are two or three blocks awa to be disbanded and destroyed. Its only right. There were Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists and many other people of many other faiths killed in the attack. Let’s be sensitive to all of the families, honor them all, by calling the entire lower end of Manhatten a religion-free zone.

  23. decomposing1 says:

    Sure we don’t fear em. Hell let’s make a hall a fame for serial killers. Praise Allah and kill everybody.

  24. The obvious bigotry of many of the above statements is whelming.

  25. You keep telling us that it is about respect…..

    Just how is the Cordoba Institute being respected?

  26. tuddo, the first amendment is in no danger. People are asking these Muslims to CHOOSE a different location.

    For a group of people who want to be shown respect, they are stubbornly adhering to this plan despite the fact that they’ve been told repeatedly by large numbers of people that it smacks of disrespect.

    bBoy at least be true to yourself…if this were about Christians doing the same thing in a parallel situation, would you not expect them to CHOOSE a different course.

    Again no one is quibbling about their right to build the center on that site. They are free to do so unless the city says otherwise for some reason. They might have a heck of a time getting anyone on a construction crew in NYC to work on the project unless the union does some arm-twisting. Or breaking, or whatever they do.

  27. “…….the union does some arm-twisting. Or breaking, or whatever they do.

    That your comment was punctuated with such a ridiculous, brain-dead, bigoted statement as this, sozo, shows your true colors, and highlights the spirit in which you address this subject. To insinuate that terrorism on the part of union members is acceptable behavior, under these circumstances, isn’t very Christian, is it? Or, maybe you only use Christianity when it suits you.

    The right thing to do would be to welcome this Mosque. As people of all religions were killed in that terrorist attack, the Muslim victims should get the same respect as any other religious group, in America.

  28. theogsters says:

    It seems we’ve become a nation of “haters”; we love to hate just like the Limbaughs, Becks and O’Reily’s of talkshow fame have taught us to do. And we dehumanize those we hate — just like our “conservative” mentors have instructed us to do — which means we can deny our victims constitutional rights without pangs of conscience. What would our conservative activists have us do next; establish detention camps for those currently in disfavor? Or will they be content to protest the building of a mosque in NYC?

  29. “What would our conservative activists have us do next; establish detention camps for those currently in disfavor?”

    That would be the illegal aliens, theogsters.

    Try to keep up. :)

  30. “What would our conservative activists have us do next; establish detention camps for those currently in disfavor?”

    Was someone listening to Stephanie Miller this Morning?

  31. iamjimbo says:

    I see som of my ‘left rimmer’ friends are engaging in the hackneyed use of bigot… again.

  32. AreYouHighOrWhat says:

    Don’t fear the mosque or Islam, UNLESS you’re one of the liberal gays targeted for beheading by the so called religion of peace. Islam=Hate and I will tolerate neither!

    It’s adorable the lefties think the opposition the cult is all from the right, they apparently don’t care enough about the gay folks, or have no idea what Islam REALLY is, and it’s oppression!

  33. nwcolorist says:

    In reading this column and comments today, what I am sensing is that the pro-mosque group puts all their eggs in the First Amendment basket. All other arguments are inconsequental in relation to the overriding importance of the Constitution. There’s no balance here.

    Have they possibly turned the US Constitution into a “god” that they themselves worship?

  34. sozo, I have a friend who lives in a neighborhood where every single resident within a 2-mile radius asked a Christian church to choose not to tear down some beautiful old homes to build an enormous parking lot and a sanctuary that brings in hundreds of people who do not respect the residents. The church chose to do it anyway. End of story. Do people have the right to continue to gripe about it, yes. What I am asking is that politicians show some leadership and put this into perspective, and not incite inflammatory arguments to use this as a wedge issue. The Republicans know that the President of the United States must stand up for and protect the Constitution. So how is there any argument about what he has said? How is there any controversy about what he has said? Members of Congress should also protect the Constitution.

    They are building commercial buildings, for heaven’s sake, much closer to this “sacred” site. Places where people will have honest commerce, but where some will lie, cheat and steal every dollar they can. There will be cussing, God’s name taken in vain, and all sorts of profane activities much closer and much less sacred than the prayers of a religious group two blocks away from the site, and about 5 blocks away from the twin towers location. Those profane activities are deemed OK, but prayers to God are somehow disrespectful? People need to put some perspective on this.

    I also do not agree with anyone who thinks we are at war with islam or that people who are Muslims are automatically terrorists. The lies that Fox News commenters have propounded about this mosque are legion. People repeat them on these comments as if they are facts. The imam of this mosque has not said that he supports the 9/11 attacks. In fact, the imam of this mosque was chosen by George Bush as an ambassador to visit Muslim nations around the world to highlight the freedoms that Islam enjoys in our nation. It is no wonder that he is met with such incredulity when people in those nations read how Muslims are actually being treated in this country, with fear and disrespect. You say that it is this church’s right to choose to build at the site they have selected. So, what if they build? What next? And how is it the Federal government’s role to get involved other to say they have the Constitutional right to worship where and how they please?

  35. AreYouHighOrWhat says:

    modyfied says:
    AUGUST 16, 2010 AT 3:40 PM
    And to be equal, NO religion has EVER condoned murder, it is the interpretation of it that gets man killed….

    Useless chatter from someone deliberately manufacturing propaganda! No religion has condoned murder, funny funny stuff, too bad it’s a blatent lie! Islam clearly calls for the homosexuals to be thrown off cliffs, crushed with large objects, and beheaded, it’s not an interpretation by man, it’s in their hateful book!

  36. menopaws says:

    I just keep wondering when this country plans on moving forward and gets past 9/11……America–the land of the fearful whiner……..that is what we have become. Be afraid of Muslims, Gays, Hispanics and wave 9/11 around instead of remembering the phrase “home of the brave, land of the free”……….The only people I have any respect these days for are our military and our first responders……Watching Fox News slip the ring through the nose and lead everyone around like dumb sheep–“-watch your backs!!! Be afraid–be very afraid!!! The President is un-American—the Muslims want to relive 9/11 by building a Mosque near ground zero” And, let’s not forget the politicians who are working sooooo damn hard to keep this going……It’s their goal to make this ugly and on the front page…….. Bunch of loser morons who probably can’t even spell Constitution much less read or respect it…….Honestly, we are talking about a house of worship–where is the American respect for that???

  37. Roncella says:

    How do the liberals justify their support of the Mosque Location at Ground Zero and support of Islam, according to sharia law women will be forced to cover their bodies completely, have no rights to education or careers, will only be used to produce children and clean and serve their men ???

    This does not sound like a loving, considerate, caring, peaceful way to treat women or Gays or Christians or Jews.

  38. Roncella says:

    Menopows, Sounds like you watch alot of Fox News. I don’t blame you as they are truly Fair and Balanced in their Reporting of the News.

    Your name calling and hatful remarks come across clearly and paints you as a Liberal/Progressive in the first order. You lose your creditability with all the name calling.

    Menopows, Where is the Respect for the Families who lost loved ones on 9-11, Where ???

  39. iamjimbo says:

    “House of worship” menopaws? You must have missed the memo… the new ‘left rimmer’ talking points are that it’s not a “house of worship”… it’s a “community center” ;) . ;)

  40. iamjimbo says:

    … btw, how long before we hear some Berkley pencil neck ‘rimmer’ whining about military recruiters on a college campus?

  41. Wonder if there’ll be public admissions to the stoning of any adulterers who fall into the hands of the faithful. Got to love a religion that believes that stoning is good for the soul and removing the nose of adulterous women will some how remove the stink of her transgressions.

  42. modyfied says:

    AreYouHighOrWhat :
    You need to read more, study more, get your head out of the sand more.
    Not even the Satanist bible condones murder. or are you going to ASSUME it says something different?
    Close mouth, read, open mind….

  43. Roncella, you ask: “How do the liberals justify their support of the Mosque Location at Ground Zero and support of Islam…(based on sharia law’s beliefs)”. That is a very false and misleading assumption upon which to base your question. I no more support Islam than I support sacred (literal) cows. I no more believe in celestial virgins of Islam than I believe in golden tablets of the LDS or evil space creatures in our volcanoes like Tom Cruise does. However, I do not have to believe everything that Hindus or Mormons or Scientologists believe to support their Constitutional right to believe it. This is America, and we do not have sharia law any more than we have Christian law. You are free to criticize any belief that you do not agree with, but to be an American also means that we respect the right of people to worship how they believe and where they want to as long as that religion respects our secular laws. That means no stoning of adulterers (also required by God in the Christian Bible, BTW) or governmentally-condoned discrimination against gays based on religious beliefs..

  44. “As Jews committed to religious freedom, to honest dialogue, to peacemaking, and to the celebration of the One God, we strongly support the plans of the Cordoba Initiative to build a mosque and Islamic cultural center at the tip of Manhattan, near the site of the World Trade Centers destroyed on 9/11/01.
    The Cordoba Initiative took that name precisely to celebrate the history of that city and neighboring areas of Andalusia in what is now Spain, where for centuries Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived together not only in mutual tolerance but in mutual harmony.

    http://mahdibray.net/2010/08/03/prominent-rabbis-support-challenge-of-the-adl-and-support-cordoba-institute-mosque-in-lower-manhattan/

  45. Days after Community Board (CB) 1’s Financial District Committee passed a unanimous resolution in favor of the Cordoba Institute moving to Lower Manhattan to build a community center with a mosque, local and national media outlets pounced on the story. Ro Sheffe, the committee chair, was disappointed, to say the least, with the coverage.

    “There has been so much inaccuracy in so many of the media accounts of this proposal,” said Sheffe last Friday. “From what we were told at the meeting – what we were hearing was a secular community center with a mosque attached. Everything we heard obviously we liked. It was unanimous.”

    http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_368/de_369/cordobamove.html

  46. ij – If my parish church had a gym, swimming pool, and performance space I probably would have been more eager to go to church.

  47. menopaws says:

    Liberal no—progressive yes………Al Queda took out the Twin Towers……..And as far as Fox “News” is concerned, I spend a lot of time trying to figure out when ignorance and bigotry became all it takes to get a job as a television commentator. Catch up–Al Queda took down the Towers–just like not every priest is a pedophile (Not sure ?????), not every Muslim is a member of AlQueda……….So, as someone who has experienced true trauma in her life, my sympathetic advice to these families is that they should move on with their lives and show respect by honoring what this country stands for……..And what I am hearing via blogs and Fox News has nothing to do with either honor or respect. It is all about fear and it is all about being manipulated by people who don’t give a damn about this mosque………They want face time in front of television cameras to spew their poison……I refuse to let these people control this…….Just like the Terry Shiavo case–it’s all about getting the “base” all worked up……So, how about surprising them and refusing to dance to this well organized tune??

  48. tuddo wrote,”That means no stoning of adulterers (also required by God in the Christian Bible, BTW)…”

    Old testament and not in everyday use. On the other hand the religion of peace and love didn’t have any trouble rounding up people to stone a couple to death this week. Iran is ready to carry out a few more. You have no more control of this aspect of Islam then the honor killings that have happened in this country. Secular law is meaningless to muslims and they’ll be pushing and advocating for sharia to replace the system now in place. They’ve succeed in the UK.

    While I agree with your sentiments I don’t for one second think moslems do. Any of them.

  49. Good grief, Polago. I started to remove the union crack for fear someone would take it seriously, and then I thought, “No, even the regulars will see that I’m being intentionally ornery.”

    But I was wrong. Very insensitive of me.

  50. ctdrules says:

    How easily we forget. To all of you in favor of the mosque, bet you felt different on 9-12. But now that you’ve had 3 years of Oblama, it seems only natural that we bend over and take it from the Muslims.

  51. ctdrules, wrong, I support the Constitution all day every day, not like some of these “support Constitutional rights as long as it agrees with my personal beliefs” people. Such as: I support the Constitution as long as it means people I hate don’t have to get a fair trial. I support the Constitution as long as Mexicans who are born in this country don’t get citizenship. I support the Constitution when it means I can demean and debase the peaceful religion of Islam by tainting all of its supporters with the horrible and anti-Islamic beliefs of a few terrorists and I can keep them from building a center of peaceful prayer.

  52. “I started to remove the union crack for fear someone would take it seriously, and then I thought, “No, even the regulars will see that I’m being intentionally ornery.”

    How will we know, going forward, when you’re kidding, or serious, sozo? Given your “issues” with unions, one could only assume that you meant what you wrote, even if it was only meant as an ornery crack.

    But, you did admit to a wrongdoing. Accepted.

    Weren’t there Muslim victims in the 9-11 disaster? Would it be wrong to honor them, too?

    To not allow the Muslim-American community to honor their dead would be, as the letter writer says, ” to give into the fear Islamic jihadists would like to sow.”

  53. artdad11910 says:

    We are so busy showing the rest of the world how good we are, that they’re sick of hearing about it. Besides, today’s “progressive” mantra of tolerance is operative only if we’re not talking about a cross on San Diego hilltop, or a nativity under the capitol dome in Olympia, or prayer at a high school ceremony . . . at which time, we’re told to take our religion, and fold it five ways prior to sticking it where the sun don’t shine.

  54. artdad11910, you would have a point if this was government-owned property, but it is private property and so your argument has no merit, it’s just so much hot air.

  55. ctdrules – on 9/12 we didn’t know who was responsible (though Bushco was ramping up for the Iraq invasion)

  56. Not sure how allowing a group to build a community center with a prayer room is equivalent to “bending over and taking it”……ctdrules must have a very disturbing sex life….

  57. You libs are really funny. You’ll fight to defend a bunch of murdering psychopaths but not join the military to defend your country. Pencil neck cowards, one and all.

  58. “a bunch of murdering psychopaths”……and who would that be?

  59. Ah…..frosty is a keyboard hero! So strong, so brave from the glow of his computer monitor!

  60. I promise to remember that e-dialogue can easily be misunderstood Polago, and that some people don’t share my sense of humor.

    I continue to maintain my position that choosing to build the mosque/community center at the location is poor form.

  61. iamjimbo says:

    “ij – If my parish church had a gym, swimming pool, and performance space I probably would have been more eager to go to church.”

    So what?

  62. iamjimbo says:

    beerBoy says:
    August 17, 2010 at 4:20 pm
    “a bunch of murdering psychopaths”……and who would that be?

    ………
    Really? Really?

    .
    ummm. the muslim psychopaths that encourage their women and children to blow themselves up…
    .
    Where do these people come from sumn?

  63. iamjimbo says:

    … Hey B. Will you lead the charge for racial and gender equality in the new “community center”?

    How about “transparency”? … and not the obama kinda transparency…

  64. sozo, I’m trying to get a sense of what should be allowable nearby according tho those who would make the judgement on these things, since obviously the Constitution holds no weight to people who hold your opinion. Are the restaurants OK? Are the street vendors OK? Are the 9/11 trinket shops and souvenir shops OK? Is the porn store that is even closer OK? Is the strip club nearby less insensitive than a house of prayer? Are the Christian churches fine with you? Are the commercial buildings that are being built much closer all OK? Or maybe all the buildings for three or four blocks around the site should be bought up and the entire site become a national shrine? What would you allow five blocks from the twin towers and two blocks from the World Trade Center plat? Obviously you do not want a community center that includes a public memorial to the victims and a place for Muslims to pray. On which of the things I’ve mentioned would you use the same energy you have used to denounce the mosque?

  65. ij – “so what?”

    Thunderous applause for the wit of the TNT! That rejoinder was right up there with…….frosty……or 3PH.

    And, to top that i.j. dazzles us with his brilliant rhetoric:

    “Really? Really?”

    Your obvious intelligence and incredible knowledge base is demonstrated by your informed and informative replies! I bow to the master.

  66. tuddo, I may find many of those things distasteful, but it makes no difference in this discussion. Members of the Islamic community murdered 3,000 people, including other Muslims.

    Even if the larger Muslim community is not to blame, they should understand the power of symbol. If they do not, they are not very bright, and I do NOT think that’s the case.

    In fact, I think they know full well the power of symbol. Let’s say for argument sake that they were hoping the symbol of Islam near GZ would be a positive thing, a healing thing.

    They now have heard that for millions of Americans, it will not be that, but will instead will appear as some sort of symbol of victory over western values and practices.

    Sensitivity dictates that they “hear” the voices of the majority and make another plan.

    I realize this logic will not be embraced by those who are certain their view is THE view all of us should hold.

  67. iamjimbo says:

    Don’t get your hypocritical panties in a twist B.

    I was surprised (sarcasm) you would ask
    “a bunch of murdering psychopaths”……and who would that be?
    That’s bizarre (kooky in fact).

    Your condescention and selective outrage is unparalleled…

    “ctdrules must have a very disturbing sex life…. ” brilliant rhetoric?

    “frosty is a keyboard hero! So strong, so brave from the glow of his computer monitor! “…. brilliant rhetoric?

    Oh, I asked a valid question… So what?

  68. iamjimbo says:

    … Oh yea, again…

    Will you lead the charge for racial and gender equality in the new “community center”?

  69. So, even though it’s understood that the Muslim community is not to blame for 9-11, because millions of Americans can’t see past their bigoted hatred of Muslims, the Muslims must, in your mind, sozo, “hear” the voices of the majority and make another plan.”

    Contrary to the letter’s title, fear is not the issue here. Hatred of the Muslim community and the desire to show disrespect to anything Muslim is causing many to take this position.

    I realize this logic will not be embraced by those who are certain their view is THE view all of us should hold.

  70. ij reminds me of Woody Allen…..I liked his earlier material better – it was funny.

  71. Fear and hatred aren’t the only two choices Polago, and I’m wondering too if you will lead the charge against the fear and hatred Muslim men seem to have of women and gay men?

  72. sozo, so your argument is that Muslims cannot have a place for families and community who lost friends and loved ones in the 9/11 terrorist attack to pray nearby because why? To the ignorant and bigots in America all Muslims are terrorists. Any symbol of Islam automatically means that the people inside are terrorists to ignorant Americans, so we must accede to their ignorance. I get you. I reject that line of reasoning as either totally uninformed, which I know you are not, or as total bigotry against an entire religion which I don’t think you are. So try another one on me that one loses the smell test.

  73. Please excuse me if I chose not to participate in your little litmus test, sozo, but the validity of my opinion isn’t dependent on your approval.

    Many of the reasons posted here in opposition to the Mosque reek of hatred. For example:

    “it seems only natural that we bend over and take it from the Muslims.”

    “While I agree with your sentiments I don’t for one second think moslems do. Any of them.”

    “Wonder if there’ll be public admissions to the stoning of any adulterers who fall into the hands of the faithful. Got to love a religion that believes that stoning is good for the soul and removing the nose of adulterous women will some how remove the stink of her transgressions.”

    “Don’t fear the mosque or Islam, UNLESS you’re one of the liberal gays targeted for beheading by the so called religion of peace.”

    “For a group of people who want to be shown respect, they are stubbornly adhering to this plan despite the fact that they’ve been told repeatedly by large numbers of people that it smacks of disrespect.”

    “Hell let’s make a hall a fame for serial killers. Praise Allah and kill everybody.”

    “Why do any favors for those who would rather kill you than just behead you.”

    “Why not just put up a monument to the ‘Noble Japanese Airmen’ on the walkway over the Arizona? Or run up the flag of the Third Reich at the cemetery in Normandy?”

    “Can anyone guess what the last words out of the mouths of those terrorist were just before hitting the towers? Could those words have been “Allah akbar”? Don’t try to convince me that this issue is anything less than one religion trying to impose it’s will on the rest of the world.”

    “The Muslims are laughing at us, alst the while building a tax-free “mosque” using it to launder and distribute money under the name of religion, and plotting another 9/11.”

    “The Muslim leader of this Mosque has made nasty remarks about America deserving 9-11 and some other comments. Who is paying for the New Mosque, where is the Money coming from ?”

    “Islamic radicals around the globe will do a victory dance when this mosque is built. They will be emboldened and consider it a sign of Western weakness.”

    If this isn’t hatred, sozo, I’ll eat my hat.

  74. iamjimbo says:

    Beerboy reminds me of algore and the environment… and jfkerry and property taxes… and little Timmy Geithner and income tax….

  75. iamjimbo says:

    Start eating P. Just because you throw the hate word around doesn’t make it so…

  76. Dude, all you who support this need to go and live in a muslim country. I have and you will not see one church around. NOt a single one, you have to hear the minarets call everyone to prayer 5 times a day, if you are christian or jewish, you can’t wear a cross or the star of david on the outside of your clothing because it is illegal, and you will “offend” allah and whomever else is around! Having this mosque a couple blocks away from where the world trade towers were is a f*cking insult! If those hajis didn’t hijack those planes we wouldn’t even been in afghanistan or iraq . We would not have been at war for the past 7 years. Yeah I’ll be the first one to admit it, I HATE ISLAM. It is not a peaceful religion. They abuse young boys, abuse woman, take everything word for word as the truth out of the koran, if you convert from islam to any other faith that is a death penalty. Yes I dislike muslims and their religion. This is the USA where we all live in sin and have a great time, and if muslims don’t like it…go f*ck yourself and leave! That goes for all you liberal a*s POS that post things on here that think it’s fine for this Kuwaiti to build a mosque two blocks away from where the trade towrs stood!

  77. Roncella says:

    Sozo, Congradulations on trying to be informative and clear about why you and millions of other Americans feel the way you do about the location of the Muslim Mosque, 500 ft from 9-11.

    However trying to covince the Blame America crowd about anything positive about America is almost hopeless.

  78. Monday morning quarterbacks….thinking that they all know the answer and that their answer is the only correct one, and when someone disagrees the mud starts slinging! Insults start coming out and tempers flair.

    Any of you guys, go live in a muslim country for a year or so, you’ll find out what Islam is all about!

  79. Thanks for providing further evidence that hate is the fuel behind those who are opposed to this mosque, qwert.

    Your temper is the one that’s flaring, Dude.

    ————-
    What is it about this issue that you consider positive about America, Roncella?

  80. sozo, so how long will this “symbolism” last in your mind? Should we cling forever to the idea that a crescent moon is all about 9/11? Do you then agree with those (who I find ignorant and uneducated) in some Muslim countries justified when they equate the Christian cross with the Crusades? Is that how long peaceful Muslims will continue to have to apologize for bands of terrorists who corrupt Islam? Should every Christian who visits the Middle East have to continually apologize and atone for the Crusades?

    I’m just asking, since I don’t see a difference. I think those who blame all Christians for evils done in the name of Christianity are just as wrong as those who blame all Muslims for the evils done in the name of Islam.

    It took less than 10 years from Pearl Harbor for us to stop calling Japanese all kinds of names and equating them all with the policies of an evil government. It took us less than 10 years to put our focus on Naziism as the evil and not all Germans. How long will it take for us to stop blaming all Muslims and start focusing on just the evil ones?

  81. “Remember the Alamo”, tuddo.

  82. Polago – yes I hate islam! ANd yes, my hatred for that religion makes me mad knowing that some hajis plan on building a mosque a few blocks away from where the twin towers use to stand. I think it’s disrespectful to all those who have lost thier lives on the planes, in the towers and on two fronts! Now we wouldn’t even have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan if we didn’t get attacked by islamic extremists who hate our way of life. I have a biased view, while the majority of you that post things on here are monday morning quarterbacks that think your answer is the only correct answer, I spent almost 14 months of my life living in a muslim country. I’ve seen how they treat people, I’ve seen the nasty looks, I’ve seen them wanting to kill me and all the infidels. They would not hesistate to put a bullet in your head Polago because you aren’t muslim and you pray to whatever god you pray to.

    I ask you Polago or anyone out there…what do you know about living in a muslim country? What do you know about their civil rights? How do they treat woman, kids, mentally disabled…how do they treat the poor, why don’t they believe in capitalism, why do they take each and every word as the truth out of the Koran? Give some examples, explain yourself and your knowledge!

  83. qwert – I would be happy if there were no religion in America but, not if that were coerced.

    You and yours continue to put forward hyperbolic false dichotomies. Your response to the defense of freedom of religion is to accuse us of wanting to promote a certain religion over others or to start listing the actions of fundamentalists extremists (as if Fred Phelps represented mainstream Christianity)

    sozo – sorry, but it is hypocritical of you to insist that all Muslim bear the collective guilt of a few extremists while you so aggressively defend Christianity against any criticism of their extremists.

    I.j. – closer to funny but I didn’t get a chuckle yet.

  84. Stating that one group is verbotten is hardly “respect” or any thing close to the American ideals.

    The list from several posters of why people hate/fear Islam make all suggestions that this isn’t based in bigotry rather absurd.

  85. qwert, The community center isn’t being built for foreigners in a Muslim country. It is being built for US citizens and residents. Here is what I know about Muslims who live in American – the same thing you and I believe. This country was founded by people who believe in freedom and equality to come together to form a government and a place to live and that the government should not interfere with those freedoms and should do everything possible to improve equality under the law. That is why many Muslims escaped harassment and torture in their home countries so that they, too, could enjoy the freedoms that America enshrines. The lessons of peace and moral behavior in the Quran are what attracts many people to convert to Islam just like the messages of peace and love and equality of treatment are what attracts some people to Christianity. Just because some minorities use the Bible or the Quran to sow their own hate and denial of equality doesn’t mean that all people share those hateful beliefs.

    The imam that is in charge of this particular community center/mosque has said the same things many times. He was chosen by George Bush to express how Muslims are treated with the same respect that any other religion is given and that Muslims are not persecuted or treated differently in the US. I hope we don’t prove him wrong by just showing our intolerant side because people are Muslim.

  86. iamjimbo says:

    The bigotry elephant in the room, beerboy, is sharia law…

  87. ij – explain how Sharia Law relates to a moderate group, headed by a cleric who worked with the Bush Administration and the FBI, building a community center.

    And…..while you are at it….explain how Fred Phelps’ actions can be attributed to all Christians.

  88. BB- please point out where I where I am insisting on promoting one religion or the other. Please point out where I am giving only two option when there are plenty other options out there. I am merely stating my opinion on this matter. I don’t like Islam, I think it’s a bunch of cr*p that they are trying to build a f*cking mosque a couple blocks away from where MUSLIMS took out the twin towers.

    The imam who will be in charge of this mosque is a Kuwaiti. NOW as I said before, how many of you have lived in a muslim country? YOu tip toed around that specific question and did not comment on it. Now what that says to me, is that you have not lived in a muslim country. You read stuff on the internet, or in a book and come to your own conclusion with out actually living it.

    You’re entitled to your own opinion, just like I’m entitled to mine…but I strongly disagree with you or anyone else who supports this. YOu made some valid points…freedom of religion…but just stop and think to yourself, is it a little disrespectful trying to build a mosque a couple blocks away from where the twin towers use to stand? If the twin towers didn’t get blown up, would we be in Iraq or Afghanistan? Once again, no one has answered that question.

  89. iamjimbo says:

    “I’m not your research monkey”…you don’t know what Sharia Law is and how it relates to islam?

    Fred Phelps? What do his actions have to do with islamic law?

    Nice d.o.c.

  90. iamjimbo says:

    btw, has the imam disavowed Sharia Law?

  91. What part did Iraq or Afghanistan play in 9-11, qwert?

  92. ij – you keep making unsubstantiated claims and then insist that I find the citations to disavow them while you have done no research at all. When I make claims I have the onus to back them up – when you do you need to do your own research.

    But……

    “The Quran expressly and unambiguously prohibits the coercion of faith because that violates a fundamental human right – the right to a free conscience. The Quran says in one place ‘There shall be no compulsion in religion.’ And in another it says, ‘To you your beliefs and to me, mine.'”- From a June 2009 commentary by Rauf.

  93. iamjimbo says:

    LOL… “According to Ruaf” …

    There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

    The Qur’an:
    Qur’an (16:106) – Establishes that there are circumstances that can “compel” a Muslim to tell a lie.

    Qur’an (3:28) – This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to “guard themselves.”

    Qur’an (9:3) – “…Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters…” The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

    Qur’an (40:28) – A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must “hide his faith” among those who are not believers. (I found this one particularly interesting)

    Qur’an (2:225) – “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts”

    Qur’an (66:2) – “Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths”

    Qur’an (3:54) – “And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.” The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

    Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be “compelled” to deceive others for a greater purpose.

    SUCKER…

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm

  94. iamjimbo says:

    beerBoy says:
    August 19, 2010 at 6:14 am
    ij – explain how (ij – you keep making unsubstantiated claims and then insist that I find the citations) Sharia Law relates to a moderate group, headed by a cleric who worked with the Bush Administration and the FBI, building a community center.

    And…..while you are at it….explain how (ij – you keep making unsubstantiated claims and then insist that I find the citations) Fred Phelps’ actions can be attributed to all Christians.
    .
    annoying? yes… but see what I mean?

  95. iamjimbo says:

    … just say what you mean or ask what you want to ask. You don’t have to be all in denial. Your hackneyed obfuscations and counter accusations become disinteresting.

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