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ISLAM: Of course it’s a religion

Letter by Susan White, Tacoma on Aug. 12, 2010 at 11:09 am with 47 Comments »
August 12, 2010 11:09 am

The latest fad in paranoia is the claim that Islam is not a religion. Even though for over a thousand years it has been called a religion, albeit an evil or false one, it is now being called by some a nonreligious political movement.

Why suddenly start denying that it is a religion? Obviously, it is the easiest way to deny people their constitutional right to freedom of religion. Even so, isn’t it odd that a predominantly Muslim country like Turkey has tried so hard to remain a secular country?

Muslims trying to be secular. How odd. Perhaps Islam is a religion after all, and people are just too quick to hop on the rhetorical bandwagon.

Leave a comment Comments → 47
  1. Concernedfather says:

    If not a religion, what is it called the “Islamic Faith”? When I was taking college courses, Islam was taught as a religion; not as a political science course.

    Perhaps Christianity is no longer a religion? The old testament of the Holy Bible is almost identical to that portion of the Holy Koran; the history of each book has a juxtaposition to the other up until the birth of Christ.
    Surely, if Islam is not a religion, Christianity is just a political belief too. No longer shall we have to have separation of Christianity and State. Praise Allah! This changes EVERYTHING!

  2. Who cares what it’s called? Most of us know the ideology whether you want to call it a religion or a bowl of chili. Whatever it is, it needs to join the modern world.

  3. BlaineCGarver says:

    Everythink I needed to know about izlam, I learned on 9-11. Lest you forget, there were muzlim celebrations all over the country, including bonfired and tribal dancing in the streets of Seattle……I barf on izlam, and moohamad.

  4. BlaineCGarver says:

    Susan White, why do you feel that non-muzlims should any respect for izlam, when muzlims and izlam have no respect for us? Indeed, they pray for our deaths and vow to wipe us off the earth. You silly wabbit.

  5. lovethemountains says:

    frosty, you make perfect sense in your two line comment. Call it whatever you wish to call it. A snake in the grass is still a snake in the grass…ready to strike at the first opportunity.

  6. Christianity is an invitation.
    Islam is conquest.

    9/11 did not occur a thousand years ago and the Crusades had more than a dozen factional adherents each positioning themselves for ground control. The various European Kings all had personal motives as did the Sultans, Viziers and 5-er / 12-er Caliphs. In the middle of the mess was the Jewish remnant ducking arrows from all the others. The Crusades did not happen last week, but Islam recently re-used a Japanese invention: the Kamikaze method.

    Islam literally means : Surrender

  7. concerned father..
    Christianity is not a religion. Religions are faith systems with salvation based on works.
    Christianity is salvation by grace. No works necessary..
    Religion- Do
    Christianity – Done

  8. Ah yes, and Pope thinks women priests are worse than Clergy raping children all over the world.
    Or Bush ranting about the crusade he was about to undertake in Iraq.
    While in the mean time Americans shop like mad people for crap from China. Still absolutely communist and not taking kindly to religious folk. Every think how insane this makes us after we attacked Vietnam and then Cambodia for being communist and economically ruin Cuba?
    The religious bigotry in this country will come back to haut us. It always does. Other people tend to have a better memory of historical injustice.

  9. Sumner401 says:

    including bonfired and tribal dancing in the streets of Seattle…

    That is an outright lie.

  10. Sumner401 says:

    Why is ‘Jewish” a race?

  11. iamjimbo says:

    Well slag, we had a president and vice president that took illegal campaign cash from the chi-coms… you know, the finger wagger and his carbon glutten hypocrit partner…

  12. Funny, the economy was roaring red hot when Clinton was at the helm, yet you are still bitter about it.
    I must admit, I thougth you where talking Cheney at first. Speaking of that glutten – in a cold damp paranoia bunker paid for with tax money …

  13. rusirius says:

    larsma, you are right. islam does mean surrender. as in “surrender to the will of God”

    and look up the date July 15 1099. The Crusaders (representing the will of all of Christendom) conquered Jerusalem. they killed all the Muslims and then rounded up all the Jews in the Synagoge and set fire to it. but that was a 1000 years ago, right? and Islam did not attack the World Trade Center. It was Al Qaeda. it is bigotry to judge millions of adherents to a religion by the acts of a few. Christian zealots also kill people. are all Christians evil?

  14. ArchieMoore says:

    Well said rusirius!!!

  15. If you read these threads very much, you may very well conclude that many here do indeed think Christians are evil rusirius.

    And lars, don’t mess with the revisionists’ explanation of The Crusades by presenting facts. It’s one of their favorites.

  16. iamjimbo says:

    I’m not bitter. I thought the 104th congress did a stellar job of balancing the budget, welfare reform, and setting things in motion to creating a surplus (on paper anyway).
    You chastised folks for buying Chinese products and I offered some perspective. What’s worse, someone buys a watch from the Chinese… or the Chinese buy a U.S. president and vice president?


  17. iamjimbo says:

    July 15 1099 …

    Sept. 11th 2001.


  18. Check out today’s Non-Sequitur cartoon.


    Too funny! :)

  19. Roncella says:

    The Slag, What would you like the United States to do about China ?

    They are fast becoming the most powerful and wealthy Nation in the World. They are holding and backing millions and millions over America’s head and the way Obama and the Democrats are “spending” they will have millions more soon.

    The Slag, Cuba’s Fidel and other leaders in Cuba ruined their own economy, not America.

    Why don’t the Peace Loving Muslims speak out about the violent extreme Hateful Muslims who want to take all freedoms and rights away from Women or Gays, or Christians or Jews ?

    Where is the outcry from the Peaceful Muslims who want to see the violence stop, Where ??

  20. iamjimbo, the truth is, when buying a Chinese made watch, we get something of value, when they bought the president, they got screwed.

  21. Blaine aka Tubby – you must be confused and meant the 5 Dancing Israelis who videotaped the towers going down.


  22. So Ron…..based upon your conclusions about the efficacy of the Cuban boycott (which continues)……all this uproar about the Coop boycott is absurd as it is only a symbolic measure.

  23. Roncella says:

    BeerBoy, With very little co-operation from the Cuban leaders Obama would assist Cuba in anyway he could to open their island to new business opportunities. Obama always seems friendlier and ready to talk to our enemies than he does Countries that have support America through the years.

    I was very disappointed after listening to President Obama speak about allowing the Muslims to build another worship center less than two blocks from the 9-11 Trade center area.

    Once again he goes against the majority of the peoples wishes who live in the New York area and the nation as polls show a large majority of folks don’t approve of this at all.

  24. iamjimbo says:

    I think Barry has planned to be a 1-termer all along…

  25. The Muslilns who want to build their community center have every right to build it anywhere they want.

    But, as one statesman put it recently, we are so consumed with rights, we have totally forgotten our sense of responsibility.

    The construction of this building near Ground Zero will stand as an emblem to that fact. It is a shameless show of insensitivity.

  26. Ron – you are very disappointed that the President supports the Constitutional freedom of Religion.

    Sozo – what are you trying to say in your convoluted way of condemning a sect of Islam that CONDEMNED the 9/11 and other terrorist activities being carried out by Islamists? That Freedom of worship shouldn’t be extended to non-Christians?

  27. The freedom of worship should be extended to all. Did you read my post?

    I certainly hope this sect of Islam condemned 9/11 — and I would hope that they would be sensitve enough understand that despite everything, a mosque close to where the towers once stood is emblematic for the survivors of something egregious that WAS in fact done in the name of the god of Islam. Surely there are other lots on which they could build their community center/mosque.

    Just as the plans to build a convent near the concentration camp were altered, so too should this plan be. It’s not about rights; it’s about compassion, sensitivity and responsibility.

  28. You do know that Muslim-Americans were killed in 9/11 – not just the rest of us Americans.

    How far would be far enough to please you, Sarah Palin, and Newt Gingrich?

    And…..why is it any of your, my, Palin, Gingrich, Obama or any other non-resident of NYC’s business?

    You insist that everyone should be tolerant of your faith and turn a blind eye towards those exceptions who pervert the faith…….I guess that is easier to call for when it is your own faith rather than the other.

    It wasn’t so long ago that white families “suggested” that black families should be sensitive, compassionate and responsible to the neighbors and not move in…..

    But…..I’m sure you think this isn’t the same……

  29. I don’t think it’s not the same I KNOW it’s not the same. Again, read for clarity, bBoy and stop being so defensive. I said it plans to build a convent near a concentration camp was in poor taste, regardless of the legality of it.

    In other words, what is good for those in my religion is good for those in other religions as well.

    You’re right that ultimately it’s for the folks in NYC to decide, but because it is linked to something that affected thousands of Americans, it is no surprise that lots of Americans have feelings and opinions about it.

    Whether you like it or not 9/11 changed America, and it happened to be Muslim men flying those planes. I’m afraid Muslims will have to deal with the consequences just as Christians had to deal with Hitler’s evil distortions of our faith. Many good Christians died protecting European Jews too.

  30. iamjimbo says:

    Beerboy, pretty much any time a homicide bomber blows him/herself up, a muslim dies… even if they missed.

  31. Again – Two city blocks in Manhattan isn’t considered far enough, how far would be far enough for “good taste”?

    What I consider bad taste is Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich riding this “issue” in order to keep their names in the press. Stoking hate and fear for political gain makes both of them beneath contempt.

    Obama should have kept his mouth shut too.

  32. I’m not defending Newt and Sarah; what they do in the name of free speech is their business. Not mine, not yours.

  33. Roncella says:

    Beerboy, I have to ask you how in good judgement you can’t see or feel the hurt that victims families of 9-11 are feeling everyday.

    Legally the Muslims can build their worship centers anywhere they want, “we all understand this”. The President repeated their right to build their centers anywhere they want , but did not reference the families that lost loved ones on the terrible day.

    The President and the Mayor of New York show more consideration for the Muslims than for the faimilies who’s life have forever been changed because of 9-11.

    The latest large polls all say the same.
    1. The American people understand the Muslims have a right build whereever they want to.

    2. Out of respect for those who lost loved ones on 9-11 the Muslims should not build their worship center 2 blocks from the 9-11 destruction.

    Both the President and the leaders in the Muslim community could have ended all this had they showed more respect for the wishes of both the New York City community and Americans throughout the United States.

  34. Actually sozo – when public figures are using their right of free speech to make our society less civil it is very much your, my and the entire society’s business.

    Again – Ron – if 2 blocks is too close, how far away would be acceptable?

    And…..how do you know how the 9/11 families feel?

    This is a false issue being created and manipulated by hate mongers for their own political gain. That is truly disgusting.

  35. Roncella says:

    Beerboy your sudden concern for being civil is interesting. Where you just as concerned while President Bush was in office and some folks called him a murderer, liar, stupid, etc.

    Yes 2 blocks is too close, let the muslims find another location at least 10 miles from 9-11 out of respect for the victims families of 9-11.

    Beerboy how do I know that the 9-11 families are hurting, are you serious ?

    You don’t think that after losing wifes & husbands & children & fathers & Mothers & Friends that those Families are not hurting ?

  36. Rocella, beerboy doesn’t seem to have a lot of emphathy for the family members of the victims of 9/11. I wonder if he thinks that urinating on or near someones grave is also acceptable behavior? How many steps away from the gravesite is acceptable to urinate? five, ten, twenty?

  37. I suppose beerboy will say “it depends on who’s grave it is”.

  38. I guess concern for 9/11 survivors is based upon whether or not one can give it a political spin that fits one’s bias:

    Anne Coulter
    These broads are millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzies. I have never seen people enjoying their husbands’ death so much.

    Manhattan Island is 22.7 square miles (58.8 km²) in area, 13.4 miles (21.6 km) long and 2.3 miles (3.7 km) wide, at its widest (near 14th Street).

    Putting the Mosque 10 miles away would put it off the Island.

    Comparing a person’s worship to urination…..another statement demonstrating classlessness.

    You both are hate-mongering bigots.

  39. And you bBoy have finally hit a wall you can’t get over. You generally assume a posture of understanding and reasonableness, but in this case, you’ve got a big ol blind spot.

    How do you feel about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and their oversized mouths, their history of exploiting the racial problems in this country for their own seedy purposes? And they are supposed to men who have spiritual wisdom!

    Your comment about the families of 9/11 victims is pitiful. I can’t believe you would quote Anne Coulter to make your pont. Goodness you’re desperate.

    I read a letter from someone this morning who spent most of his life in Europe. He warned that the building of this mosqe reflects exactly how Muslims worked their way into the political systems of Europe where their hatred for the Jews became part and parcel of their gradual insistance of Sharia Law, etc. Muslims are among the most intolerant people in the world. and yet they demand absolute tolerance and sensitivity from others.

    When will the people of the U.S.A. extend their vision farther than the end of their noses?

  40. sozo – your rant and counter-accusation is followed by a an argument AGAINST the freedom of religion.

    You have convinced me…..NO CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES, MOSQUES or any other house of worship should be allowed in the Island of Manhattan because it is “holy ground”.

    Hypocrisy…..is it a requirement to sit in your pews?

  41. I challenge every single person here to watch and respond to this video clip (very short) of a coming documentary. When I say what these guys say, no one listens. When THEY say it, you will be obligated to listen. You’ll see what I mean.


  42. Roncella says:

    Beerboy, Your attitude on where to build a new Mosque, disappoints me alot.

    I always felt you had compassion for folks in general. However now I’m not so sure about how you reason and what you actually believe in.

    The Muslims are using our laws like freedom of Religion against us. They want all the freedoms except when those freedoms disagree with their beliefs.

    Then the Muslims become violent and hateful and will turn against anyone or any Government which does not allow them to do anything they want to.

    Our freedoms in this Country have to be protected from those who would use them as a weapon against Americans of all faiths.

  43. beerboy, “hate-mongering bigots”? You crack me up man. We are talking about a religion that hates and will kill people who do not follow their rules, and you are calling “ME” a hate monger? Did someone check to see if you put your shoes on the properly this morning?

  44. iamjimbo says:

    beerBoy says:
    August 15, 2010 at 3:51 pm …. (out of context quote)

    beerBoy wrote on 03/17/2010 06:21:42 AM:
    johnsherman – quoting edited sentences out of context contributes to the “fog of controversy”

  45. iamjimbo says:

    Speaking of hypocrisy, what’s this about a Greek Orthodox church not being allowed to rebuild their church (on their private property) that was destroyed when the twin towers fell??? 2 blocks from ground zero???

  46. You’ve lost it bBoy. This issue has shone a light on a serious problem with your capacity for reason. I will say this again, slowly.

    Muslims are free to worship, free even to build their community center where they like. Should they CHOOSE to build it near Ground Zero, they will be viewed as insensitive by roughly 3/4 of the population. If nothing else, it’s lousy PR.

    Should they CHOOSE to select a different site in NY, they will be viewed as truly peace-seeking, cooperative and sensitive folks.

    It’s their CHOICE.

  47. We are talking about a religion that hates and will kill people who do not follow their rules, and you are calling “ME” a hate monger?

    My justification is contained in your sentence. Your Islamophobia is so complete you can’t even see it.

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