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MILITARY: Ignorance of military success factors

Letter by John C. Thayer, University Place on May 26, 2010 at 1:43 pm with 22 Comments »
May 26, 2010 1:44 pm

Is there anything as tiresome as those who ceaselessly pound their chests for the “freedom” for gays in the military? Those who are least likely to ever put themselves on the line for their country are, of course, the loudest in their trendy “wisdom.”

In combat, there is no greater intimacy than the terror of possible imminent death or disabling. In that environment, it is critical that soldiers have faith in the trustworthiness of their peers. Doubts of motivations, integrity and honesty tear apart unit cohesiveness. You NEED the greatest macho ethos to make a military move forward successfully.

Sacrificing historical evidence on military unit effectiveness on the altar of “social progress” is emblematic of those who neither understand, nor want to understand, what the military is. Massaging their goosebumps at their own “social nobility” is the far greater imperative.

Leave a comment Comments → 22
  1. Volks253 says:

    Explain how and why gays serve in several other countrys military with distinction and honor with no problems what so ever.
    Flys in the face of your oh so informed opinion doesn’t it?

  2. the3rdpigshouse says:

    volks253 – you are correct – there are gays in other totally ineffective militarys – why do you suppose we shoulder the brunt for the civilized world while the ineffective conduct their social experimentations??! Welcome to the real world!

  3. Volks253 says:

    Oh man, you had better sit down pigshouse, that spin was Olympic class!
    Gold medal, standing O, Oscar, Grammy and every other award winning performance!
    Can’t wait to see you on the red carpet for that tripe!
    Even rush and beck couldn’t do any better at spinning, BRAVO!

  4. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Volks253 – Have you ever been invited to a “Blanket Party”???

  5. Volks253 says:

    I see you can’t handle it when your bested can you?
    Not surprising.

  6. Murigen says:

    The success of the military won’t be compromised by any gays/lesbians who serve. It is compromised by the bigots who serve.

  7. Volks253 says:

    You got that right!

  8. Whether you like what Mr. Thayer has concluded here or not, it seems appropriate to at least acknowledge that those who’ve actually been in the foxhole might have a perspective the rest of us lack. Are you speaking from experience, Mr. Thayer?

  9. LuckyCharm says:

    “You NEED the greatest macho ethos to make a military move forward successfully.”

    This comment is offensive and insulting to the many women who serve proudly and courageously alongside their male counterparts in combat. You don’t need macho, you need intelligence, resourcefulness, dedication, and teamwork.

    I served with a number of gays and lesbians, in peacetime and wartime. Believe me, whether your buddy — male or female — is looking at you funny is the last thing on your mind under fire. You worry about the bad guys looking at you, and that’s all.

  10. 3ph, I’ve helped administer a blanket party or two. There’s a few people who post here that I would give a months pay to be the recipient of one of the blanket parties. Great letter Mr. Thayer, I’ve made points similar to yours on othe letters. Volks 253 keeps bringing up the same question about other countries having gays in their military which I’v answered several times, but I guess he thinks no one will notice. As I’ve said before every country that he can name who have gays openly serving are all the very same countrie that can’t their way out of a nudist colony. They are the ones who reluctantly send along a few support troops to back up our combat forces just to appease the U.N mandates. I totally agree with the “macho ethos” comment as well, in spite of protestations from the “gentler’ sex posting above. Waving hankerchiefs never forced an enemy to surrender.

  11. “ca’t “fight’ their way out of a nudist colony”.

  12. the3rdpigshouse says:

    Muregin – Concur however, the purported bigots make up 99% of an effective military!!!

  13. LuckyCharm says:

    There you go again, frosty. It’s not a choice between either barreling head-first, guns blazing, into a situation, or waving a white handkerchief. There IS a middle ground. For a lot of those bad guys, I imagine it was more disarming for them to watch a female directing the male guards on how to handle each detainee, where to place them, who should get what, etc., than any threat of violence might have been. Fear only hardens people, but completely overturning their reality has a way of pulling the rug out from under them.

  14. No, those bigots don’t make up 99% of an effective military. Those bigots make up a minority. But they are a loud minority, who are usually bullies as well.

    It’s been hinted that under fire, in a foxhole, a gay soldier wouldn’t be trusted. Why not? People that train together, serve together, build a trust. That trust has nothing to do with sexual orientation, race, or gender. The bigots who swear they won’t serve with gays have the same mentality as the racists who wouldn’t server with blacks, or the sexists that don’t want women in the military. They say they wouldn’t trust a gay soldier in a foxhole, but I bet you not one of those bigots would refuse the help of a gay/lesbian soldier if their life depended on it. However, I also have a feeling they would be less likely to go to the aid of that gay/lesbian if they needed it.

    I have not served in a foxhole. We weren’t at war (or police action) when I was in. I did serve in the actives and I did serve next to a few gay/lesbians. They were good, honest, hardworking troops. I can’t say the same for all of the heterosexuals I served with.

  15. L.C., you supposedly know something about the belief system of a Muslim, do you think they are won over to our way of life when they see a woman directing the activities in a POW camp? C’mon now, be honest. So fear only hardens people? Tell that to the Japanese and the Germans after WWII . Do you really believe that they will be in a big hurry to start another war? I don’t know about the concept of “pulling the rug out from under them”. If their beliefs are as strong as they appear to be, if anything they become more fervent in their desire to oppose our way of life. Let’s see now, how many of the people released from GITMO were caught again trying to kill Americans?

  16. Murigen, If you were to take the words “bigot” “racist” and “homophobe” out of your vocabulary, you wouldn’t have a lot to say would you? So you say you have served with gays/lesbians? How do you know they were gay/lesbian? Did they just walk up and spill their guts to you because you looked sympathetic to them? What happened to “don’t ask/don’t tell? They shouldn’t even talk about it should they? Your proclivities are showing.

  17. LuckyCharm says:

    Oh, I didn’t know we were supposed to be winning everybody over to our way of life, frosty — I thought we were simply supposed to be defending our country. But the rest of your comments make more sense knowing they come from someone so arrogant as to believe that any culture, no matter how “wonderful,” has the right to impose itself on every other culture.

    Your comments about Gitmo detainees only proves my point. You don’t accomplish anything by terrorizing and browbeating somebody for years, except to harden them against you. If you were in charge of military operations in Iraq, we’d be retreating in shame and defeat by now, having turned not only the entire Muslim world, but even the Western world, against us.

  18. I believe you are terribly naive LC, And for the record, I think a woman can exhibit a kind of macho that’s needed in tough situations. I’ve seen it happen.

    I’ll bet you think that somebody could have calmly reasoned with and “talked down” Ted Bundy when he was on a rampage in that sorority house in Florida.

    Hate and rage don’t leave a lot of room for dialogue as a rule, and I think the radical terrorists seeking to up-end the West hate with a passion. Seeing you in charge of prisoners probably gave an energy boost to their rage.

  19. larryacetac says:

    LET THEM WEAR A QUEER TAG IF THEY WANT. NO DOUBT THEY WILL GET TO WALK POINT AND BE SHOT IN THE BACK FOR BEING SO STUPID, BUT ITS FINE WITH ME…

  20. frosty, I found out about most because they were outted and subsequently discharged. One needed a friend and trusted me to not rat him out. I didn’t, someone else did.

    I called them what they are “bigot” “racist” and “homophobe”, well except I didn’t use homophobe and you missed sexiest.

    Yes, I have a predisposition to not like people, actions, laws that hurt other people for no other reason than they are different. I don’t care if someone has those opinions as long as they don’t act on those opinions in a way that hurts others. Fine don’t be friends with those who are different than you, don’t hang out with them, don’t associate with them unless you have to. All that can be avoided in your personal life. It can’t always be avoided in the work place or out in public in general.

  21. LuckyCharm says:

    I love these armchair know-it-alls who sit back and judge, from the comfort of their Lay-Z-Boys, the actions of those who participated in armed combat.

    Hang your heads in shame and weep for your blindness and arrogance. Beg forgiveness of the heavens for your self-righteous smugness. You will never know what would have, should have, and could have been done unless you had been there.

    And have a meaningful (I won’t say happy) Memorial Day.

  22. You were in combat L.C.?

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