Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

IMMIGRATION: Federal government vs. Arizona

Letter by James Russell, Spanaway on April 29, 2010 at 11:00 am with 34 Comments »
April 29, 2010 12:24 pm

If the law in Arizona which allows law enforcement to check a person for legal document is abolished, then the federal government’s requirements to have a passport to enter this country should be abolished, too, because passports are legal documents also.

If a person can cry racial profiling for being pulled over by the Arizona police for checking their legal documents, then everyone entering this country should be able to cry racial profiling when INS asks for passports

Leave a comment Comments → 34
  1. villager98 says:

    The Arizona law requires everyone to carry proof of citizenship or a legal right to be in the country, not just immigrants. There has never in the history of this country a requirement for carrying proof of citizenship as one goes about the business of one’s life. That is reserved for authoritarian or totalitarian societies, not a democracy.

  2. LuckyCharm says:

    It isn’t racial profiling if everyone has to do it, such as when entering through an airport. Is AZ going to line everybody up somewhere and make them ALL produce legal documents?

  3. the3rdpigshouse says:

    FLASH! – FLASH!! – The current socialist regime running the U.S. at this time is not only Anti-Arizona, it is anti-American!!!!

  4. the3rdpigshouse says:

    LC – How many whites, blacks, or asians do you see attempting to crawl over a border fence or trek through the desert to a southern border state??!!

  5. This is a routine stop. Please show me your passport. Don’t have one? Please show me your birth certificate. No green card? Oh, don’t have that either, so you must be illegal. We are taking you in and you will be detained until the INS responds to us. They usually take 4 hours for easy situations where a person has a passport on file to three days for most inquiries. I hope you are comnfortable in our jail while we wait for proof of your citizenship. Have a nice stay in Arizona courtesy of the sheriff’s department.

  6. Nazi-like? Last time I checked, the Jews weren’t trying to illegally cross the border into Germany. Fence posts.

  7. lol, you are much too reasonable. A simple law, simple to enforce, will help out combat the crime wave that comes with illegal immigration, drugs, kidnappings, human trafficking, property crimes, murder of the Arizona rancher the other week, etc. Just a sound, intelligent law. To have Obama call somebody else’s laws “irresponsible” is laughable. Grow a set, secure the borders, enforce our national sovereignty, THEN talk about real comprehensive reform. And yes, this will cost you a bunch of illegals votes, but…..

  8. LuckyCharm says:

    The crime rate demonstrably falls as the illegal immigration rate rises. So you can’t use that argument.

    And John Shoaf, you might call it paranoia, but I just really don’t like the thought that next time I might visit Tucson — a city I enjoyed so much I briefly considered settling there — I might get thrown in jail if I fail to carry my passport or birth certificate. This isn’t about votes — it’s about civil liberties. If it’s about votes at all, I’d say Jan Brewer did this right now to take the national focus off jobs and rile up the conservative base in a very tenuous election year. Notice how quickly the conversation has moved from job creation to the implications of this draconian law that doesn’t make anybody safer and only makes the police departments’ jobs much, much harder? There could only be one reason for passing this law at this moment — politics.

  9. LuckyCharm, Do you really believe that you would be thrown in jail if you failed to carry a passport or birth certificate? Would you elaborate on how that could happen? Let’s assume you get stopped for speeding in Tucson, the cop say’s “let me see your license, registration and proof of insurance. You respond by saying ” I can produce those things however I don’t have my passport or birth certificate with me.” Do you really think the cop will say, o.k., get out of the car I’m arresting for not producing something that I didn’t ask for.?

  10. Right on target until you included ” . . . looks illegal . . .” Robert.

    Nothing in the AZ bill gives police authority to require papers or stop anyone who “looks illegal.”

    I may cry racial profiling when I am required to show my drivers license to cash a check, show my ID to purchase something at the BX or a policeman demands my papers when I am stopped for a broken tail light. I will certainly cry foul when any authority demands my wife surrender her green card or the IRS knocks on my door demanding my health care papers . . .

  11. Lucky, it doesn’t decline with immigration. Maybe crimes per 1000 people have declined over the past few decades(more accurately tied to the 300% increase in ownership of firearms-and armed society does cut the crime rate-when seconds count, the police are only minutes away), but IF 1 illegal immigrant commits one crime-that is one crime that wouldn’t have occurred if he or she weren’t here.

  12. LuckyCharm says:

    I posted the relevant portions from the text of the law here, showing that they don’t have to stop you for doing anything wrong in order to challenge your citizenship.

    And TMell, by your logic, we should be barring Iraq/Afghanistan veterans from American soil, given the high rate of homicide and violence in that population. Great idea, huh? Where should we send them?

  13. frosty, the law says that a person must show proof of citizenship or legal residence if asked by a law enforcement officer. The officer has a right to ask anyone where there is a “reasonable suspicion” that they may be illegal. If there is no proof, the officer is required to contact the INS, and, from what I was told by a WSP trooper, that takes anywhere from 4 hours to three days. No other crime need be committed. Under the law, a private citizen can turn in anyone they think is illegal, and the police must respond and investigate. If an officer does not enforce the law by responding and investigating these complaints, anyone may sue and receive, punitive awards, damages and attorney’s fees. Turn in your neighbor if they left their trash can out two days, the polioce have to respond and grill them if they are illegal.

    “What makes you think they are illegal? ”

    “Well, they wear shoes from mexico and speak Spanish, officer.”

    ” OK, good enough for me.”

  14. lucky thats not my point, you know it. I read your other links the other day, showing the decline in crime rates(which are national. Nothing to do with illegal immigration.) This is about people who DO NOT HAVEE A LEGAL RIGHT to be here! The point is, get our borders secure, keep illegals out of the country, let people immigrate through the legal channels. We are a sovereign nation. Then get real immigration reform-worker cards, huge real fines for employers(that aren’t waived every time), and laws like the one in Arizona

  15. LuckyCharm says:

    TMell, the statistics I cited from the very conservative Cato group pertained to AZ, and very closely correlated with the illegal immigration rate.

    I agree that certain people don’t have a legal right to be here. I just don’t want MY civil rights violated in the process of punishing them. If the local police were hunting a murderer, should they be allowed to detain every person fitting that general description unless they could prove they weren’t the killer? That’s what this law amounts to. I’m a witness to a murder, and I say the guy was 35-55 years old, white, maybe 5-6 feet tall, with a medium-to-stocky build. Should they arrest everyone fitting that description who cannot immediately produce proof of innocence?

  16. witchiwoman says:

    This is only the first step in a long line of steps that eventually will allow state police to detain anyone they don’t like the looks of, from entering any state. It is the beginning of martial law. First the Mexicans, next the rest of us.

    Don’t fool yourself, 3rdpigshouse, into thinking you are exempt because you are white. It will trickle down to all of us if we allow it at all.

  17. I wonder how many of you supporters of AZ’s new law think red light cameras are a bad idea…..

  18. Currently, Arizona spends over $8 billion a year on issues related to illegal immigrants. America’s healthcare system is severely impacted by virulant TB from across the border. Gang violence is rampant as is drug trafficing. Enough is enough–we should pass the same law here in Washington.

  19. IF this is the law then I hope police pull over and ask WHITE people as well for proof of citizenship.. than I have no problem with it. And what is proof of citizenship? a drivers license isn’t… PULL OVER THE WHITE FOLKS.. Also lets have some cops with guts pull over a state lawmaker and ask them for proof of citizenship…

  20. Speaking of profiling…the threat of terrorism is rooted in profiling. If you are Western, you are part of Satan’s family and killing you is honorable.

    White people experience profiling in African nations where all sorts of presumptions are made about them. They are fools if they don’t carry proper papers and prepare themselves to answer questions from officials.

    LC your crime rate diversion is simply that, a diversion.

    And those of you who argue that exercising control over immigration reflects a lack of compassion should be ashamed of yourselves. Being compassionate does not mean being indiscriminate and reckless.

  21. LuckyCharm says:
    April 29, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    “TMell, by your logic, we should be barring Iraq/Afghanistan veterans from American soil, ”

    LuckyCharm wrote on 04/29/2010 10:23:09 AM:

    “You righties sure like to twist words”

    Kooky huh?

  22. Roncella says:

    LuckyCharm/Liberals, What don’t you understand about the word illegal ??

    When someone crosses the border into another Country and then commits crimes and takes jobs, medical, schooling, housing, sending millions and millions back to Mexico, they are breaking the law, its illegal.

  23. craftsman says:

    How can anyone not see the inherent problems and the unconstitutionality of this ‘law’?
    How can anyone think this is good for AZ or good for the country?
    Have we really sunk this low?

  24. hansgruber says:

    Ever fly into Mexico? Cancun? Cabo? PV? Everytime I have, I have had to carry an Immigration/Customs document that is required to be with your passport. I don’t see Mexicans or Americans protesting that!

    Here is the law:
    The new Arizona law allows state officials to inquire into the immigration status of any person based upon “reasonable suspicion”:

    For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.

    The statute also prohibits localities from adopting any policies that allow less than full enforcement of the immigration laws, thus prohibiting so-called sanctuary provisions.

  25. the3rdpigshouse says:

    O.K.! – Lets do nothing and the illegal immigration problem will fix itself – you liberals disgust me – noone can be as naive as you sound/read in your rediculous posts!!! Grow a set, close the border, and start a new business with TARP funds to export illegal immigrants!!! Creates jobs – solves immediate problem!!

  26. If nothing else, this law should be enough to keep many of the kooks hunkered down in their attic. When I see comments from people like witchiwoman, LuckyCharm, Craftsman etc. worrying about Martial Law and men in black suits coming to their homes asking for their papers, it warms my heart knowing that they will from now on stay hidden from public view and try to not attract too much attention to themselves. I’m anxious to see if they are serious enough about this “threat to their freedom” to remain in hiding.

  27. NWflyfisher says:

    Federal Law:
    Federal Law:
    U.S. Code TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER II, Part VII, paragraph 1304(e): Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties

    “Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section…”


  28. NWflyfisher says:

    I can’t wait to hear all the howls and whining over this next one that’s ready to hit Governor Brewer’s desk:

    “Arizona Legislature Passes Bill to Curb ‘Chauvanism’ in Ethnic Studies Programs”


  29. LuckyCharm says:

    sozo, it’s not a diversion. Righties keep citing the crime rate — I’m just showing that statistics prove them wrong.

    TMell said: “IF 1 illegal immigrant commits one crime-that is one crime that wouldn’t have occurred if he or she weren’t here.” Hence my statement: “TMell, by your logic, we should be barring Iraq/Afghanistan veterans from American soil.” The violent crime rate among returning veterans is MUCH higher than that among undocumented workers (I’m not counting drug runners who really haven’t immigrated here at all).

    frosty, far from remaining “hunkered down,” I’ve got half a mind to go to AZ, run around with a bunch of Latinos, speak only in French, and get arrested, just to be able to turn around and sue. One recent false arrest plaintiff was awarded $9 million. I could use that kinda money!

  30. the3rdpigshouse says:

    LC – how about a reference for your rediculous claim regarding returning veterans!

  31. frosty says:

    LuckyCharm you apparently didn’t read my response on the last letter you wrote about threatening to go to Arizona, I said then to go ahead and go, I doubt that you will make much of an impression on anyone except perhaps only on yourself and you’ll probably get locked up, the cops there are not as P.C as they are here and they don’t like rabble rousers from outside coming in and sticking their noses where they don’t belong. So, be my guest, please go to Arizona.

  32. LuckyCharm says:

    3PH, you don’t read news much, do you? This Colorado brigade was responsible for a murder rate after their return that was 114 times the general rate in their area.

    It’s gotten so bad that they’ve set up special courts to try veterans who commit violent crimes and offer them treatment instead of prison.

    BTW, it’s awfully odd that you, of all people, would ask me for a source, because I don’t ever recall you backing up your statements with any sources…

  33. the3rdpigshouse says:

    LC – The article you referenced states that the stats address attempted & actual murders – the data is meaningless unless you know how many of the reported cases were attempts and not actual murders.

We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0