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Relatives of three fallen Lakewood officers to file damage claims against Pierce County

Post by Adam Lynn / The News Tribune on April 8, 2010 at 1:50 pm with 93 Comments »
April 9, 2010 1:05 pm

UPDATE: A lawyer for the estate of Tina Griswold also intends to file a $58 million $48 million claim against the county, according to paperwork just obtained by The News Tribune.

PREVIOUS: The families of three Lakewood police officers slain last November have taken the first step toward suing Pierce County, preparing a formal claim that seeks millions in damages.

The claims have not been filed officially, but The News Tribune has learned that it is expected Friday.

The attorney representing the estates of Sgt. Mark Renninger and officers Ronald Owens and Greg Richards – Robert Christie of Seattle – told The News Tribune this afternoon that the families are seeking accountability from the Sheriff’s Department.

“The claims seek to bring justice and call attention to a problem that needs to be addressed,” Christie said.

Relatives of Renninger, Owens and Richards contend that Pierce County law enforcement leaders could and should have done more to stop Arkansas parolee Maurice Clemmons before he shot the officers to death in a Parkland coffee shop, according to copies of their claims obtained by The News Tribune today.

The claims cite a string of phone calls Clemmons made from the Pierce County Jail last fall. During those conversations, Clemmons talked of killing police when he got out. The recordings were released to the public in January. Clemmons made general threats, not mentioning specific officers or a specific department.

While calls from the jail are recorded, jail officials do not monitor them regularly.

They should have, the officers’ families contend in their claims.

“This catastrophe, the worst law enforcement tragedy in the history of Washington State, was completely preventable,” the claims state.

Public scrutiny in the wake of the November shootings focused on Clemmons’ movements in and out of the jail between May and November 2009. Questions centered on whether the legal system failed to keep him behind bars.

He bailed out of jail three times while facing a charge of second-degree child rape.

Clemmons had prior convictions for robbery and theft in Arkansas, where he was paroled in 2001 after his prison sentence was commuted by then-Gov. Mike Huckabee.

The child-rape charge in Washington represented a possible third-strike offense, but Pierce County prosecutors had not had the chance to argue the point in court when Clemmons bailed out in November.

County and state officials in Washington have criticized their counterparts in Arkansas for refusing to take the legal steps that would have allowed Clemmons to be held in jail without bail.

Thursday, it was unclear whether the officer’s families intend to file similar claims against the Washington Department of Corrections or the state of Arkansas.

UPDATE: The claims, which were signed by the officers’ relatives on Wednesday, total $134 million.

The estates of Renninger and Richards seek $58 million each, while the estate of Owens seeks $18 million.

The families contend that Pierce County knew Clemmons was dangerous and had threatened to kill jail staff during one of his bookings.

The county should have made that threat – and others he made during recorded phone calls – known to the state Department of Corrections, which could have found Clemmons to be in violation of his community supervision from Arkansas and ordered him held in jail without bail, the claims contend.

“Further, the information would have been critical to the Pierce County prosecutors and the Pierce County Superior Court judges involved in the bail hearings for Clemmons,” the claims state.

“Using the most basic law enforcement skills – the art of listening and reporting – Pierce County could have determined that Clemmons was engaging in criminal behavior while in jail, threatening the life of jail personnel, intimidating critical witnesses in a child rape and formulating a specific plan to execute as many police officers as possible upon his release,” the claims continue.

MORE: Pierce County sheriff’s spokesman Ed Troyer’s reaction to the claims:

“We’ve got the claims and we believe that they’re meritless.”

“We never let him out of jail – he made bail.”

“There’s no way that we’ll be able to listen to all the tape-recorded calls in the jail,” Troyer said. “We never have been able to, and we never will be able to.”

The jail houses 1,400 inmates on average. To monitor every phone call would take an estimated 50 full-time employees and $45 million, Troyer said.

Threats against police are common among inmates, he added, calling them “ a daily occurrence.”

“If you locked up everybody that threatened the police, there wouldn’t be enough room.”

Clemmons’ phone calls fell into the same category, Troyer said. If county officials had heard them before the shootings, they could have ordered a mental-health evaluation for Clemmons, and little more.

“And he did get a mental health evaluation, which he passed,” Troyer said.

The claim is a bitter pill for the sheriff’s office, which raised money on behalf of the slain officers, led the manhunt for Clemmons and arrested his alleged confederates. Prosecutors are still building the criminal case against those parties.

“It’s really kind of a kick in the head,” Troyer said. “We’ve done so much for these families and we’re gonna continue to do things for these families – but at the same token we have a criminal case right now with seven defendants.”

“Where is everybody’s priority out here? It’s obviously about the money. No good deed goes unpunished.”

EVEN MORE: Troyer just sent out a news release regarding the claims:

The Pierce County Sheriff’s Department has been notified that the families of the four Lakewood Police Officers murdered by Maurice Clemmons on November 29, 2009, will be filing a claim for damages against the Sheriff’s Department.

Our hearts go out to the families of the fallen officers. We believe that this terrible crime was the responsibility of one person who was assisted by multiple persons, all of whom were quickly identified and taken into custody by the Sheriff’s Department.

The Pierce County Sheriff’s Department did not take actions or neglect to take actions that in any way – directly or indirectly – contributed to the murder of the four Lakewood Police officers.

Our hearts continue to go out to the families of the officers we have lost.

Christie said this afternoon that police agencies exercise discretion every day in whom they investigate and monitor. Clemmons fit the profile of someone who needed to be watched closely, he said.

Efforts to reach Michael Hanbey, attorney for Officer Griswold, were not immediately successful. Hanbey last week filed a lawsuit on the behalf of Griswold’s estate against the seven people accused of helping Clemmons before or after the shootings.

Leave a comment Comments → 93
  1. I hope they realize they are suing the PEOPLE of Pierce County. We’ve rallied around these families, we’ve grieved with them, we’ve donated personal finds to them, we lobbied state government to provide free education for their kids.

    And now they are suing us.

    The work of a police officer is dangerous. Every one of them, if not when they’re hired, then by their training, knows that their lives could be on the line at any time during their tour of duty. Suing the people of Pierce county will not change this fact.

  2. lewiswells says:

    Give them the aircraft carrier award. At the very least, the keys to the county.

  3. rterry65 says:

    I agree that it is sad the family members have to sue to get the attention of the elected officials but it seems to be the only way they stand up and pay attention. The ball was dropped by management be it the judges or the prosecutors – this criminal was allowed to bail out. No way should this have happened. You can blame Huckabee, You can blame anyone you want but the essence is the people in charge of enforcing the three strikes law dropped the ball. The shame is the community may have to pay – if there was any way to take the money out of the leadership of the prosecutors i would vote for that.

  4. jimkingjr says:

    I take back every ounce of sympathy I had for these families- for these vultures treating the deaths of these officers as the latest Lotto ticket.

    We already provide special benefits for the families of officers. This is way too much by these greed-driven embarassments to the community.

    Not a dime for them! Not a dime!

  5. what sleaze bag lawyer talked them into filing this suit? with all the city, county and state has done for these families they turn around and sue! this is crazy. don’t they have sense enough to realize that all this will do is take more money away and further harm others…some folks just don’t have any sense at all. i used to feel for these people but now…

  6. jimkingjr says:

    Don’t blame the sleazebag lawyer- these relatives are obviously greedy lowlifes themselves. Any honorable person would have turned a deaf earvto any talk of a lawsuit like this. We need to rewrite all state laws so that anyone who files a suit like this forfeits all other benefits.

  7. teresa5291 says:

    Will this bring the officers back? Money is NOT going to bring those officers back. I agree, Maurice Clemmons should not have been let out, but I fail to see how sueing for millions of dollars is going to do anything to help this situation. Wouldn’t it be better to change the system to make sure this doesn’t happen again? We helped these families; we grieved with them; we opened our pocketbooks up to them. There is plenty of money for their children. We did the best we could in this tragedy and by no means do I wish to trivialize their loss, but By sueing Pierce county, they are sueing those of us who helped them and I don’t know about anyone else, but there is no more budge in my budget to pay more in taxes. It’s wrong, very wrong what happened to those officers, but sueing “Us” isn’t right either.

  8. tomwa007 says:

    I am sure $$$$$$$$ from Pierce County residents will bring back their loved ones.

    If we kept all inmates permanently locked up for threatening to kill someone is just as insane as this lawsuit. This is a slap in the face to all county residents.

  9. nasmancar says:

    I guess next time we have to wait until the Statute of Limitations runs out BEFORE we donate our hard earned money and soul. I guess we should have only prayed for the innocent children affected.

  10. Even with all the support the people of Pierce County gave these families the greedy little want to sue us. I assume the county is insured, but in the end we will pay through higher premiums like any insurance company would do to a high risk client.. This is just pure greed!!!! I hope they choke on whatever they get.

  11. SonicCruiser says:

    A lawsuit should also be waged against Mike Huckaboob, the state of Arkansas, Christine Grinch Gregoire, the state of Washington, DOC, Clemmons family, etc. We’ve donated money, some gave till it hurt their wallets, attended fundraisers, took flowers to the dept, balloons, teddy bears, cards, letters,etc and now this. There are other entities just as culpable as Pierce County. This is sad, the County lost loved ones and are now being sued while their hearts are still heavy. If bonafide changes were to take place as a result of the lawsuit, that would be great. But if it is just to become millionaires, on top of all the thousands already donated, that is adding salt to the wound. Where were the thanks from the families to the thousands of people in the community who poured out money from their hearts to help the families and children? We in the community are sorry for your loss, it hurt the community, and if anyone could have foreseen him walking in there, they would have stopped him SURELY. Sad. Sad. Sad.

  12. hotbarb2614 says:

    I have no sympathy for these families either. First they were not in a lakewood coffee they were in parland. You might want to ask why they were all hear and not at the one in lakewood. I live right buy were this happened and this is parkland. Where they on duty or off. Heard two different stories. Why were four of lakewoods squad cars out of commission and in parland? So now they want more a nd more money after everybody gave contributions to them. So if they were off duty, it is still our responsibiity.

  13. wonderwhy85 says:

    Are you serious, I took flowers to the lakewood memorial. I stood outside to pay my respects during the funeral procession. Millions were collected for these families. Griswalds family has it right, sue Maurice Clemmons co-defendents. I’m sorry, I just don’t feel sorry for them anymore. Why should we have to pay??? We gave so much support!

  14. solomon253 says:

    They knew what they signed up for when they became police officers but also this could have been prevented had they not gone to his apartment on a daily basis harrassing mr clemmons, this is what brought this all on anyway

  15. Might as well have the families of every soldier felled in Iraq and Afghanistan sue the United States because we let Saddam go the first time in Iraq, or didn’t get Bin Laden when we had the chance in the Afghan mountains.

  16. Norwester4life says:

    Shame on these families.

  17. m9078jk3 says:

    I agree with jimkingjr the relatives are just golddiggers.I also feel no sympathy anymore for them at all.Put me back into the jury pool again.
    I was on a jury before.This particular trial I’d love to be selected on.
    If we had true (Solomen like) justice I would rule in favor of the citizens of Pierce County and take all the misgotten money the relatives of the slain deputies obtained from what I read here.Honestly I would have to as a juror judge impattially until I knew the full story.

  18. TonyWashington2010 says:

    This is the perfect way to alienate yourself from the public. After everything that has been done for them and how everyone responded around them. All this is going to do is cause for the lay off of more police officers and more problems because of a lower budget to work with. If anything, this lawsuit isn’t going to help anything. It is only going to hurt the community as a whole.

  19. I agree with jimkingjr. Make them forfeit all other benefits and return all donations given to the particular families involved then let them sue.

  20. What a slap in the face!!!!

  21. tubbythetuba says:

    I’m disappointed in the families actions. It saddens me they are going for The Big Lottery Win. Shame on them. It will not bode well for the fallen officers: The defense will have to bring up the fact that somehow Four Officers of The Law didn’t notice a scum bag walking in the door with a handgun. Had anyone of them not had their head UpThere, they might very well be alive now……Too bad that will have to be brought up now….

  22. Cremsmom says:

    Please consider this….. what if this was not the family of a slain police officer, but it had been your husband, wife, brother, father who was murdered by Clemmons. Your life is devastated. The anger you would feel towards Clemmons and those who helped him would probably be the most powerful emotion you had ever felt. The murders were his fault, he was evil. You start to heal a little. But then you find out these other facts, that he should have NEVER been out of jail, that he repeatedly threatened the lives of people performing their daily jobs, including your loved one. How angry would you feel towards the “system” responsible for allowing him out of jail to carry out his plans? His sick plans were not a secret, he told anyone who would listen to him what he wanted to do, including in recorded telephone calls from the jail. What if he had been telling anyone and everyone when he got out he was going to execute as many teachers as he possibly could. And then he gets out, gets his weapons, camps outside a school and at the end of the day starts shooting. Who would you blame?? Would you not feel those who had him incarcerated just days before the shooting, those who could and/or should have heard his jail house conversations revealing his plans, should have done something to stop him from being released into the general public?? There is a definite break in the chain that is our justice system and the only thing that will make people make a change is money – so sad, but so true. These families would gladly pay $58 million to get their husband, son, brother, dad, mom, sister back, but that is impossible. So what can they do? How do they try to bring some change so that you don’t ever have to go through the trauma that they have? The only thing that will get people pulling theirs heads out of the sand and doing something is money. I understand the anger/disappointment, that was my initial response too. But then I started thinking about it, about how avoidable this was, and that pisses me off even more. I guarantee you those families could care less about the money – they want change, accountability, responsibility being taken to protect all of us – they aren’t doing this for themselves. What might they get? Money. Big deal. What will they never have again? The person they love. They are doing this for every citizen of Pierce County, to force the powers that be to make our region safer. Just take a few minutes and put yourself in the shoes of the grieving families and I think you might begin to feel angry at those who deserve it, those who failed to keep us safe from Maurice Clemmons.

  23. Cremsmom, you sound like a lawyer. If not I apologize to you. For calling you such a vile word.

  24. Cremsmom says:

    nope, not a lawyer, just a mother of four, wife, and regular worker like most everyone else. :)

  25. tomas472 says:

    These suits do leave a bitter taste. I’m not going to speak for anyone but myself in this.

    I was horrified when I heard the news of the killings, I was sad, I was angry, I felt compassion for the families, I watched the procession and the gathering at the Tacoma Dome. I gave what little I could afford from my meager Social Security, I even have a memorial decal (proceeds to the families) on my car.

    Not these families want to forcibly pick my pocket so they can acquire millions by suing the county. Where do they think this money comes from? Some magic post of money the “county” is hoarding? No, it comes from all those who live in the county, the rich and the poor, from those who often have already given what they can.

    If/When these suits are filed, I will scrape the memorial decal off my car.

    Sorry, officers, your families are trying to punish the wrong people.

  26. Whatever1214 says:

    The families can’t give me my sympathy back, but I want the money I donated back. Screwem.

  27. teresa5291 says:

    crems mom: I still fail to see how sueing the county and getting millions of dollars for one’s family member’s death is going to change this situation. I don’t get it. Work to change the system; sueing doesn’t help. It hurts those of us who helped them. And as far as your comment about if it were “my family member”. Well if it had been, doubt the community, my job or anyone else would have done what we did for those officers. It’s a slap in the face. What is more money going to do for them????

  28. Sazqwatch says:

    I am very taken aback. The families who feel they were so wronged should spend their time lobbying for a change in the laws instead of screwing the citizens of the Pierce County; the very people who gave of their hearts and wallets after the tragedy. This is just a sickening development. All of the heartfelt grieving the public displayed and the money raised for the families and they go and do THIS? They want MORE? The spouses and children are taken care of and the future college educations are paid for. Yet, they want more. They should be ashamed of themselves. Definately turns all of that good will and sympathy into a sour stomach. Truly despicable.

  29. I’ve worked in the Pierce County jail, and I can tell you, it is a very well run organization, with a major, major emphasis on and safety and security. The officers there get threatened all the time — it’s simply the nature of the job. Just as it is for officers on the street. (And, by the way, the staff in every emergency room in the country, and on every ward at Western State Hospital.) Are we to indefinitely lock up every person who threatens another? Ridiculous.

  30. Wrongful death lawsuits are brought because the claim is that the deaths could have been prevented. It will be up to a Jury to decide that and other issues. I have faith in the jury system and that it will work. If a police officer is threatened the person should be charged with a crime even if that means an increase in jail inmates. It is up to government to protect all of it’s citizens including police officers and if that means monitoring phone calls from jail then so be it.

  31. shahalyn says:

    See how effective the guards and police officers are when their budgets are cut thanks to the greed of these people. Instead of making the system more effective at dealing with criminals, they will cripple these same systems that their family members died serving.

  32. PolarBear53 says:

    2 ways this could work out;

    Sue the County for negligence for an exuberant amount of money, The Insurer for the County will recommend a settlement for about half of what is sought. Issue resolved.

    Or

    Sue the County, go to trial within that the trial, the Corrections Department will say they are underfunded and understaffed ( notice this week they took a 1% cut) and lack the ability to perform such duties.
    Corrections will argue because of the lack of funding they were incapable of monitoring the phone calls of Maurice Clemmons at the time he made them. They were only to discover those recordings after Mr. Clemmons was released. The court will then mandate as part of the settlement the County is to provide more budgeted money towards the Corrections and Sheriff’s Department. Then which the County will need to come back to the Taxpayers and say well because of this court order we are now forced to raise/ allocate more of your taxes to fund such order. This ought to be interesting

  33. Cremsmom says:

    I guess what I was trying to say was if it was your family member who was murdered, regardless of profession, whether a teacher, salesperson, grocery clerk, whatever, if you felt that there was something that could and should have been done to keep someone like Clemmons (he was facing child rape charges – CHILD RAPE) behind bars, wouldn’t you be pissed at the system that allowed him to bail out again and again? Wouldn’t you want that system changed? If in trying to introduce changes you were constantly told no, we can’t do that, no budget, no way, no how, would you just walk away or would you stand up and fight? Just the mention of this suit has people talking about the case again, and about how Clemmons bailed out, even though he was facing a third-strike charge – that is CRAZY! How angry do you get when you see a person with 15 prior drunk driving charges has killed a family while once again driving drunk? You are mad at the person, but aren’t you also mad at the system that slapped his wrist all 15 previous times, and in essence “allowed” him to drink, drive, and kill? I know it isn’t exactly the same thing, but hopefully you get the point I am trying to make. I also grieved with these families and the community. I was disappointed when I saw they were filing a lawsuit. All I am suggesting is that maybe we need to see it from a different perspective, rather than being angry because you gave $20 to a fund, along with many, many others, and now you feel betrayed by the families, instead of taking this as a personal attack by the families, try understanding why the would be doing this – I really believe it is not to load their bank accounts but to try to bring to the front line the issues of no bail for those facing third strike charges, etc. Sorry to again be so long winded, just trying to point out another way to see this issue.

  34. witchiwoman says:

    If all they want is change, then why don’t they sue for change, not millions that we the taxpayers do not have? Nothing in life is free. When you sue a government agency, you are suing all of us.

    Raping us of money will not bring change, as the county leaders are not personally responsible for the money they use. The taxpayers are.

  35. shahalyn says:

    @Cremsmom: then the families should lobby for change instead of asking for the money.

  36. Rickey1959 says:

    Everytime i come on here in read about something that have happen to someone. everybody is trying to throw the blame on everyone else about who’s fault it is. I don’t agree that the families should be sueing to get money. But the way things are going these day’s everyboby what’s something for nothing. There is away’s a finger pointing at someone else.

  37. Pierce County is self-insured.

  38. Clarktribnet says:

    I think I’ll be removing my blue porch light and adding a green one for money. What a shame. If they are awarded any funds I think it should be given to the LPD.

  39. teresa5291 says:

    well sue for change then, lobby for change. don’t sue for money. that isn’t going to bring about change. I just do not see this lawsuit helping at all. The point of a lawsuit in a situation when someone has been killed in an accident or whatever, would be to assure that the “lost wages” of that person are covered. Seems to me that between the police union and all the donations and the social security these kids will get, the financial cost has been covered. Of course, this won’t bring their parents back, but really what good is this lawsuit going to do? Lobby for change. Make a difference. But don’t sue where it is going to hurt others. who do you think is going to pay for this when the county’s insurance company settles? us. that’s who.

  40. silicawood says:

    Just like I have said before – whenever tragedy happens to people, they believe they are owed a pile of money. IMHO this case has no merit. Why should I, as a taxpayer, be penalized for the crimes of a madman? I feel personally insulted and no longer support these families.

  41. condanchri says:

    While I am not in agreement with these families (it kind of feels like a slap in the face right now), I am also a bit shocked by the harsh criticism that many of these posts portray. Laws have been changed in Olympia due to the excessive police murders in our area, but my understanding (as the wife of a police officer) is that most of these laws do not work retro-actively. Washington State law dictates that families receive compensation for their loved one (not all, but much of it) if they have served for at least 10 years with a police department. All of these officers had been with Lakewood since it’s inception – 5 years. This may mean that these families are left high and dry when it comes to substantial money they would have otherwise received (meant for them to help raise their families – not to bring their loved ones back). I don’t think money is the motivating factor in this law suit, but I will admit that it is hard to see another reason, with such a high dollar amount to be on the table.

  42. Why did Pierce County purchase the recording equipment to monitor phone calls if no one listens to them?

  43. hotbarb2614 says:

    News Flash they are sueing for 137 million dollars.They want changes, heres another news flash tell them to stop going to coffee house in there uniforns. Take that break at the police station now there’s your change and don’t go to parkland when your suppose to be in lakewook.

  44. comment_tayter says:

    Oh, brother… Nice way to reward the outpouring of support from the people of the community.

    Yup… No good deed ever goes unpunished. Greed knows no bounds.

    I would say that any settlement or final award ought to especially and particularly exempt these families and _all_ their relatives — including the officer’s kids — from receiving any further benefits, as defined by the recently passed laws.

    .

  45. jimkingjr says:

    Cremsmom- you clearly are caught up in the modern American belief system- “Something bad happened so I should get millions of dollars.” It is one of the corruptions that has brought our society down.

    No amount of money can prevent bad things from happening. It would take tens of millions of dollars a year to actively monitor inmate phone calls- should we pull deputies off the streets to do this? That’s just for starters.

    You obviously do not have a clue.

  46. condanchri says:

    hotbarb – that was a completely disgusting comment…

    most people are commenting about the families, but you’ve found a way to blame the officers themselves for their own deaths – you are a sick person…

    by the way, are you a police officer? do you know what the job entails? do you know that these officers WERE doing their jobs, when they were murdered???

  47. You mean nobody expected this?

  48. lakewoodnative says:

    I typically refrain from writing comments and just read other peoples thoughts on the TNT, but this article makes me a bit upset. Not angry, just upset. Money is not going to bring anyone back and this lawsuit is just dragging out the healing process. By the way, Pierce County is so fortunate to have Ed Troyer on our side. He has done so much for this local community before the police shootings and after. Thanks Ed! This community owes you everyday for your services! Wish there was more people out there just like you!!!

  49. Cremsmom says:

    jimkingjr – just because I can look at things differently does not mean I don’t have a clue. I do have a “clue” and as I said I initially felt angry about the claim, but what people seem to be doing is taking this as a personal attack on them, just because they cared that the police officers were murdered. So you gave a few bucks to honor the officers – that means that these families do not have a right to seek justice from a flawed system? I am actually very much disgusted by our sue-happy society, but sometimes if you allow yourself to look past the dollar amount and seek out the reason, once in a great while you may find a case that has merit, such as this one. I am not insulting you for your views, as they are your opinion to which you are entitled, even though I don’t agree. I am trying to offer my opinion as part of this discussion. I don’t expect or want everyone to agree with me, but my thoughts/opinions, even if you don’t agree, have as much a right to be heard as yours, without being insulted.

  50. hotbarb2614 says:

    No I am not sick to the man that said I was . I have a daughter in the military. She puts her life on the line 24 hours a day. If she dies her family gets $400,000 . You cannot sue the military. Now I just read Two of these families are swueing for $58million, and !8million Now thats just plain SICK AND GREED.

  51. justmaybe says:

    “If you locked up everybody that threatened the police, there wouldn’t be enough room.” “And he did get a mental health evaluation, which he passed,” Troyer said. > Here lies the heart of the problem…The County mental health evaluators, with codified qualified immunity for errors of decisions they make, are deficient all around the state. Unless someone threatens the evaluator at the moment of the evaluation, they rarely have anyone held for 72 hours. They do not speak to witnesses or investigate recent events, they are completely subjective and only assess the person for a few minutes.. when it fits in the evaluators schedule, if the person refuses to speak with them, they do not find them a danger to themselves or anyone else.

  52. trustsatan says:

    This is distasteful to say the least, I applaud Ed Troyer for his restraint in commenting on the merits of the suit. Inmates in county facilities making generalized threats on the lives of law enforcement officers? I’m sure it is as natural as breathing to these people.

    Although we should rightly expect law enforcement to be competent, we cannot reasonably expect them to be omniscient. I think that the lawyers responsible for filing these suits should be publicly shamed in some way.

  53. Concernedfather says:

    Nice way to completely DISHONOR the names of the fallen!

  54. The families claim that “this catastrophe, the worst law enforcement tragedy in the history of Washington State, was completely preventable”. Completely preventable? Do you think for one second that if they knew of a direct threat on anyone’s life, police officer or civilian, that they would have done everything they could to prevent a tragedy like this? The families state that had Pierce County related the information about the threat to kill jail staff that Clemmons would have remained in jail. Really, for how long? And who’s to say that he wouldn’t have killed some other officers when he eventually got out of jail? The county couldn’t have kept him in jail indefinitely. Shy of having someone tailing Clemmons when he got out of jail, there was nothing more that could have been done. This is absolutely sickening and these families should be ashamed of themselves! This is out-and-out greed and it completely disgusts me!

  55. cheryllee says:

    I get what your trying to say but your not dealing with everyday folks here. These familys have recieved and will continue to recieve benefits due to who the victims were. Changes the rules a bit when they have already been compensated on the monitary level. I will never down play the sacrifice of these fine officers and the families, what a huge loss but when you bring it down to the subject of $$$, they are and have been paid. I could never afford the funeral services or expect the out pour of donations or sleep well at night knowing my children have a full educational ride if it was my husband/Wife. I have to agree down with the blue bulb and up with the green.

  56. surveyor1 says:

    Cremsmom,
    This case has no merit. Thats the point you are missing. It is not Pierce Counties fault he made bail. It is the law that says he had the right to make bail, for better or for worse. In this case, Pierce County could not deny him bail. And I am sorry, if all they want is change, then why do they need a 134 million? And yes, the people who donated 20 or 30 bucks have the right to be upset because ultimately we, the tax payers of Pierce County, are the ones who will have to pay for the money awarded in a lawsuit.

  57. EveOfDestruction says:

    ” . . . and you don’t believe we’re on the Eve of Destruction.”

  58. Martsmarn says:

    Sad, just sad. Offer to settle by firing 50 Sheriff’s deputies and give them that money……. That what they want? How about empty the jail and close it down and give them that money? If successful, their success will deplete the budget, lay off law enforcement and endanger the remaining police and citizens everywhere.

  59. Martsmarn says:

    This was NOT avoidable! So, he is theatening to kill cops? Which cops? Who were supposed to be warned? And what would that do, anyway? Keep him in jail? What, for life… for making threats?

  60. I just heard this on the TV news and I admit my jaw was-still is-on the floor. Shame shame shame on these families. A zillion people cried and grieved and prayed for the families of the murdered officers. We opened our wallets, Forza opened their registers, and I was personally assured all four of the families – and their grandchildren – were well taken care of financially for life.

    I can’t imagine any of the Lakewood Four would approve of this shameless, greedy action. It just tarnishes their good names.

  61. cynicalskeptic says:

    I have said from the beginning that this entire situation is the fault of law enforcement and the justice system. Let them pay.

  62. RBCharger says:

    Is there any way to get our good will donations back? Maybe they used the money to hire the lawyers.

  63. ibacrafter says:

    I am absolutely disgusted by the actions of the Lakewood Four’s families and their lawyers. It is a slap in the face to every deputy, detective, forensic investigator, crime scene investigator and property officer that worked on this case. They worked so hard to bring this to closure.
    This was not preventable. You can’t listen in to every conversation unless you plan on hiring several dozen people to monitor those phone calls. The money isn’t in the budget to pay the corrections officers we have now, there certainly isn’t any for more monitoring. They couldn’t prevent Clemmons from bailing out because the law allowed it. Why not sue Jail Sucks Bail Bonds for bonding him out??
    This is out and out greed. These families are not destitute. They aren’t looking for change, they are looking for a life of luxury. What they have done tarnishes the image of every officer on “their” department, and across the state.

  64. gbironman says:

    I can’t imagine the pain and suffering that the families went through – but this is a slap in the face to all the good people that spent time and money of their own to try and help them through this.
    This is a case against the people of Pierce County, their neighbors. The ones who cried with them, that took time for viduals, lined the street in their family members honor, gave money that we didn’t have a lot of because it was important to us to honor those that protect us. And now this?. We will utimatly pay for this – out of our schools, future police protection, ect.
    No amount of money will bring their family members back and for them to now ask for so much more after all that we’ve all given freely is just pure greed.
    I had loved seeing them fight to make things stronger – but we can not stop evil. It will exsist regardless of how many phone calls we monitor. This is truely a tradgity but so is seeing this come from the families now.

  65. unconvinced4sure says:

    It is nice to read that “greedy lawyers” are not the cause of these claims. No lawyer could have filed such claims without the express authorization of the surviving adult members of each slain officer.
    Furthermore, since the public has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the families of the officers, in addition to social security benefits, life insurance benefits, union death benefits, college education for surviving children paid for, possible pension benefits, the claim against the county isn’t about the money.
    Furthermore, there will most likely be a book and movie deal in the works contributing more money to the families. So, to emphasize, the claim isn’t about the money, obviously. The survivors will probably state that their only purpose in pursuing this matter is to prevent such a tragedy happening to other families. They want to send a message to the powers that be, the taxpayers.
    To review: greedy lawyers aren’t the cause of the suit; the suit isn’t about the money, because the survivors have money, lots of it; the plaintiffs are only hoping to prevent this from happening again to other police officers; and the taxpayers won’t miss the money, because it will be spread out over all Pierce County taxpayers. Oh, I forgot. This suit will send a message to other criminals who might think about killing a police officer or officers, sitting in a coffee shop or doughnut shop messing with computers while on company time.

  66. RBCharger says:

    What a way to lose community goodwill. They will say this not about the money (everyone who sues always says that) but of course it is. I guess they added up all the donations and decided they could make more money off of the situation.

    Many of us have lost family members and maybe had a chance to sue someone over the loss. Are we the poorer because we just realize that everyone dies? We deal with the pain and loss and then move on.

  67. reaper14all says:

    Okay, sue the county, all the people that donated sue the familys, get their money back. If they spent it all then put a lien on all their property. Since they believe it’s the countys fault I like the idea of closing the jails, laying off the officers, sueing the familys to get back donatios, then all the money collected give it to the familys. If then crime breaks out we the people sue the familys for degrading our safety. What goes around, comes around. The idiot that says let them sue, yeah, the county if lost the law suit would have to pay, but in reality it we the tax payers that ultimately pay. It’s bad enough with the economy down and then they do this. Maybe with the way our legislators repeal our initatives they can repeal the laws they just did for the slain officers. If there is anyone they should sue it’s Clemmons families that helped him. Remember he had what, 3,4 houses. All from landscaping, yet right. Or sue the Governor of Arkansas who set him free. And the dimwits that told the governor he should be released. Or for that matter the Commision that said Washington is violating the interstate rules of inmates by not accepting any more Arkansas inmates.

  68. alderscaler says:

    I understand the outrage that a lawsuit like this can bring. However, here is a possible take on it. Every large organization whether business, government or non profit has to take money into account when decisions are made. I believe this suit is meant to force change in the system that allowed it. I believe that once needed changes are made, the suit will be dropped. Paying the family millions or spending millions to fix it is still the same amount of money. I feel the families would rather see the changes.

  69. chip98404 says:

    That works out to almost $200.00 for every man, woman and child in the county. Shame on you, families!! We were behind you in your grief, we cried with you, we supported you, we sacrificed for you. When you sue the County you are NOT suing the jail, the county officials. You are suing those very people who suffered with you, who prayed for you, who emptied their pockets for you. What are you going to tell your children?

  70. steve_allison says:

    The pain and suffering these familes feel is very understandable this action is not. I do hope that by airing all aspects of this case the system does become stronger. I don’t thing suing the citizens will ease suffering all around . The anger is palpable .I think some good will come out of bringing this all out in the open and the laswsuit against us the tax payer will then be dropped.

  71. condanchri says:

    First off – this is not the families of the “Lakewood Four” – this is three of the four families (Griswold’s family has chosen to go after the Clemmons clan – for which they will probably not see a dime, but that’s not the point).

    Second, while I do not agree with their decision, some of these comments are completely out of whack! Posters say, “these families are taken care of for life…” Are you so sure about that? Yes, the laws have changed, but they are NOT retro-active, and none of these officers was on the job with Lakewood long enough for their families to receive full benefits. I do agree that a TON of money was raised throughout the community, and I know this hurts (I personally wish they had not chosen to go down this road). However, some posts are going on and on, with faulty information.

  72. sheriff1 says:

    Why do you think the officers got shot?our system does not allow the truths to be heard and there is no amount of money that will bring the officers or the suspected killer back to life. The lawsuit will bring necessary changes to our system . They dont make changes for safety reasons or because of a death. our system only changes when things are made public during lawsuits and as the trial nears all of the dirt will come out and it sucks but that is capitalism at work .
    Have faith in our legal system and let a jury make the decision to pay these families if the county was negligent. If the county did everything to prevent these kinds of things it will come out during intense investigations because they wont make any changes unless it cost money and the truth is painful

  73. Dan_Gerous says:

    Seems to me that it is more likely that lawyers have been hounding these families to file a lawsuit from the beginning. It’s the job of lawyers to convince people to make decisions and there are definately attornies out there that would pounce on any opportunity to go after the deep pockets of the tax payers. They’ve probably talked the families into doing this. I doubt they would have done this on their own.

  74. BigBlockChev says:

    If I would have known this back when we all were grieving and opening our wallets to these people, I would have contributed my money to Troyer and the County to defend against this instead…

    So they used the money that they accepted from the good folks of Pierce County to hire a lawyer to sue them??? Talk about an AMBUSH!

    Wow, I just can’t believe this. I would hope other lawyers would ‘consult’ this attorney and let him know what he is doing to the reputation of their profession….

  75. Top thinking about heroes, it’s all about money.

  76. the3rdpigshouse says:

    This is “ambulance chasing” lawyers talking naive people into doing something stupid!!! There are hazards that go with some jobs (e.g. policement; soldiers; firemen; etc!!!!

  77. I can’t believe that after all of this that these families have the nerve to sue. I really think you guys need to look at what you are doing to a community that helped you. How on earth could you turn your backs on the very people that helped you financially and emotionally. I guess this just goes to show that you really don’t care about the fact that despite the fact that people are struggling themselves to make ends meet that they still opened up to help your families. We all felt the need to help in some way and what it really boils down to is the fact that you feel you didn’t get enough money. What a shame.

  78. BigBlockChev says:

    I wonder if these women understand the impact they are having on people’s perception of police going forward? I won’t be using the term ‘hero’ anymore…apparently just ‘in it’ for the money, I guess. That’s the take I get from this.

    I’ll bet the family of the next fallen officer doesn’t get 10 cents from the community.

    I do think that Deputy Troyer deserves some major appreciation. What a tough job. We watched as he agonized over these deaths and then diligently hunted this guy down so these ‘families’ could have closure. Now he is having to defend his department against claims from the very families that he was trying so hard to help. I feel terrible for Troyer. Thanks, Ed, for your efforts!

    BTW, a little off-topic, but didn’t Tacoma get sued when that police chief (Brame) killed his own wife? Didn’t the family claim in that instance that the City should have prevented him from killing her? It would be interesting if the Tribune would re-visit and refresh our memories on that case….

  79. Fivecarddud: I did not vote for Obama, and I am disgusted by the families of the four fallen officers.

  80. guidocarmasi says:

    Who are the attorneys for the families.
    They stand to make a fortune and then retire on this one case.

    its like hitting a grand slam hone run.!!!!!!

    hope the county has deep pockets and a new sheriffs department.

  81. molligirl says:

    Punish the criminal, not the community. It seems that they are letting their grief turn into greed.
    I wonder how many additional law enforcement officers could be added, or will have to be cut to make up for the money the county will need to spend just to fight the suit. When I learned of Officer Griswold’s family suing those that aided Clemmon’s, I said “ oh yeah go get them!” I had the total opposite reaction to this news. I will support any new laws to keep the creeps behind bars and fully support any action to keep our law enforcement officers safe. But I cannot support taking money from our county when it could be used to help make this a safer place for all.

  82. Condanchri, read the update. This has been posted on komo since this afternoon. Griswold did file a suit against Pierce County for $48 Million. Go to the KOMO website where you can see an interview with two of thw widows and their attorney. Their tears are used as sheilds when the questions get too tough. These widows had the entire state behind them, they could have had media coverage anywhere they desired to take action to try and change laws and procedures, and they would have prevailed. This tactic they use, though they say it is to make changes in laws, is nothing more than them telling us that no matter how much we gave, it was simply not enough. The greed will from now on overshadow the tragedy.

  83. ptproudnative says:

    this whole thing just floored me .i dont know what to think.except to thank the PEIRCE CO.SHERRIFF’S .dept for all their good work.i’m hoping all these children arn’t reading all the comments.keep up the good work.P.C.S.D.!!!!

  84. Amazing how we have all “walked in the shoes” of these families and somehow think we can even come close to understanding what kind of hurt and pain they are going through. Shame on all of you. This isn’t about the money. The families have been taken care of and don’t need the money. If it’s about any money, it’s about how much money did the county need to let Clemmons bail out???

    None of us have all the facts, but here’s one: the jail cared more about the other prisoners than they do you or I. Evident by the fact that they kept Clemmons isolated from the other prisoners so he wouldn’t harm them, but had no problem letting him out to harm us when they received a few bail dollars.
    And let’s not kid ourselves, this country has plenty of money to effectively police itself if we would stop spending TRILLIONS of dollars policing the rest of the world.
    And obviously the legislature doesn’t know how to manage money, so why not let these families share funds and make their own changes.

    Oh and let’s not forget Clemmons is an “alleged” child rapist, and had he not been wounded by officer Richards and then shot by officer Kelly, you or your loved one’s might be dead thanks to the county letting him loose.

    We should all continue to love, pray, and support these familes, law enforcement and each other. Let’s not let this killer divide us and continue his evil.

  85. rootkick says:

    “Completely preventable”..come on, don’t get excited – they know it’s not true. It’s all lawyer talk. The lawyers know that this will be so expensive

    for the county, that it will probably cost less if it’s just settled out of court.

    The lawyers approached the families, who signed off on it – and why not..? They (the lawyers & families) have everything to win, and nothing to

    lose in a lawsuit. I’d do the same thing, and so would a lot of you.

  86. shahalyn says:

    People, please don’t blame the officers themselves or cheapen their sacrifice! They didn’t do anything wrong by sitting at a coffee shop BEFORE their shift. They are dead, they have nothing to do with the filing of this suit! Also, don’t punish future fallen officers! Some people are saying they won’t waste their time and money next time. To those with that outlook: Shame on you. When we close our hearts and let compassion die, we become no better than the criminals we condemn. Sadly, the families of the four have disappointed us, but don’t blame others in the future for the mistakes of others. No one should have to pay for the sins of others.

  87. getitdone says:

    THE SPIRIT OF CLEMMONS HAS JUST COME BACK TO LIFE BECAUSE OF THE GREED AND ILL WILL OF THE OFFICERS FAMILIES. JUST REMEMBER YOU CANT APOLOGIZE AND UNDO THIS ACTION AGAINST PIERCE COUNTY. JUST LIVE WITH YOUR LOSS AND HUDDLE TOGETHER WITH THE OTHER FAMILIES . DONT LOOK TO PIERCE COUNTY OR THE CITIZENS FOR ANY OTHER SYMPATHY. SORRY, BUT YOU CREATED THIS AMBUSH.

  88. everythingalaska says:

    You need to ask the IT department why the jail can’t monitor the phones better. I suspect it has to do with the non-existent or expensive technology the jail doesn’t have. Technology is very expensive. Pierce County doesn’t have that much money. Also, think about it, 2000 15 minute inmate phone calls a day. How many people would it take to monitor this many calls? Impossible! The jail doesn’t have voice recognition in the system. I’m not even sure it is available. The jail deputies are not mind readers. with 1400 prisoners, they don’t have time to stand by the phones listening to inmates talking. Gee, they are laying jail deputies off right now because of lack of money.

  89. ntreader says:

    The community rallied around these folks and now they’ve spit on us all. I hope they reconsider what they’ve done….this is really, really bad for law enforcement. It’s unfortunate they don’t have the class and grace of Officer Brenton’s widow.

  90. condanchri says:

    shahalyn – very well said . I couldn’t agree more.

  91. bifftannen1985 says:

    This is disgusting. I hope Bob Christie knows the damage he is causing to the officers legacy. Here’s his email address: bob@christielawgroup.com. I plan on writing him.

  92. retired81 says:

    Why was the State of Washington named as a party? The Superior Court Judges are paid 50/50 by state and county. The judge didn’t have the authority to withhold bail, but he did have the authority to place the bail high enough that Clemmons could not have met it. Somehow I don’t believe that Lakewood Police are any longer allowed to congregate for breaks at locations out of their jurisdiction.

  93. retired81 says:

    excuse me. that was supposed to be “why wasn’t the state named”.

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