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	<title>Comments on: OWS: Throwing rocks and losing relevance</title>
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		<title>By: Brian O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2159</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2011 00:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Chippert-  Thanks for your comments. My intent was to write two columns on this topic, the second of which would relate to the police response. I felt I needed to follow up on the first one, however, based on some of the feedback. To be honest, I&#039;m stalling on submitting the &quot;police response&quot; column because a) it will be heavily scrutinized and I want to get it right; b) my day (sometimes night) job is getting very busy; and c) I have research I need to do because I have never served in a CDU (Civil Disturbance Unit). 

I&#039;ll get around to it as soon as I can. Thanks again for your input.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chippert-  Thanks for your comments. My intent was to write two columns on this topic, the second of which would relate to the police response. I felt I needed to follow up on the first one, however, based on some of the feedback. To be honest, I&#8217;m stalling on submitting the &#8220;police response&#8221; column because a) it will be heavily scrutinized and I want to get it right; b) my day (sometimes night) job is getting very busy; and c) I have research I need to do because I have never served in a CDU (Civil Disturbance Unit). </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll get around to it as soon as I can. Thanks again for your input.
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		<title>By: Brian O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2158</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/?p=1016#comment-2158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe the News Tribune has a limit on weblinks (I think it may be one) in the comments section.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the News Tribune has a limit on weblinks (I think it may be one) in the comments section.
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		<title>By: smokey984</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator>smokey984</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/?p=1016#comment-2151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Imagine that!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine that!
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		<title>By: Earth_watch</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2139</link>
		<dc:creator>Earth_watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/?p=1016#comment-2139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I seem to be blocked from posting weblinks to relevant articles...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to be blocked from posting weblinks to relevant articles&#8230;
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		<title>By: Chippert</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2133</link>
		<dc:creator>Chippert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/?p=1016#comment-2133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brian,
  I was a bit disappointed that you attempted to steer your article (which was very well written and articulated, by the way) away from police response to the general political question that the OWS is attempting to bring to the public eye.  You see, I read your column specifically to get the &quot;view from a cop&quot; perspective on things, not a political analysis of whether a general societal issue is right or wrong.  I WANTED to hear your views on the Oakland incident.  I wanted to hear your ideas as to how the police and the public can work together in all this.  Leave the discussion on whether or not it is time for the OWS to find a leader to the people who write political commentary for a living.  Go back to what it is you do so well here - putting a real face on law enforcement perspectives and engaging us (the unwashed masses) in give and take discussions about those perspectives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,<br />
  I was a bit disappointed that you attempted to steer your article (which was very well written and articulated, by the way) away from police response to the general political question that the OWS is attempting to bring to the public eye.  You see, I read your column specifically to get the &#8220;view from a cop&#8221; perspective on things, not a political analysis of whether a general societal issue is right or wrong.  I WANTED to hear your views on the Oakland incident.  I wanted to hear your ideas as to how the police and the public can work together in all this.  Leave the discussion on whether or not it is time for the OWS to find a leader to the people who write political commentary for a living.  Go back to what it is you do so well here &#8211; putting a real face on law enforcement perspectives and engaging us (the unwashed masses) in give and take discussions about those perspectives.
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		<title>By: tuddo</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2132</link>
		<dc:creator>tuddo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I am no lawyer, but I have read some Supreme Court rulings on the First Amendment.  There must be a reasonablness that protects competing public interests in application of the rights to free speech, the right to assemble, and in the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, etc.

Courts, including the Supreme Court have ruled that parks and other public spaces can be closed at certain times to protect neighborhoods, reduce crime, reduce noise, allow cleaning, etc. No camping overnight rules have been specifically allowed as reasonable for these reasons.  Highways, streets and bridges may be restricted to only allow car traffic, even though they are public spaces. 

I don&#039;t think protesters will get very far arguing that they have an absolute right to camp out overnight.  That argument has been played out in the courts and that reasoning has lost every time.  Mayors, police and public officials have a duty to protect the health and safety of all citizens.

That is why the discussion must center on how to allow peaceful protests that do not interfere with the rights of others. I think, Brian, you hit it squarely when you talked about communication.  

However, I think it is unreasonable to demand that there be a &quot;leader&quot; empowered by every protester to speak for him or her.  This is not a church club or a Kiwanis club that has an elected president we are talking about.  This is a a group only in the sense that they are in the same place at the same time.  Many have competing disagreements with society. I do think it wise for each site to have an &quot;organizing committee&quot; that can negotiate and bring back information to the entire group.

Cities and police must make an extrordinary effort to develop communication and not be impatient by demanding instant results. 

Our nation has not chosen anarchy as the path for a better society, and no side should be allowed to engage in it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am no lawyer, but I have read some Supreme Court rulings on the First Amendment.  There must be a reasonablness that protects competing public interests in application of the rights to free speech, the right to assemble, and in the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, etc.</p>
<p>Courts, including the Supreme Court have ruled that parks and other public spaces can be closed at certain times to protect neighborhoods, reduce crime, reduce noise, allow cleaning, etc. No camping overnight rules have been specifically allowed as reasonable for these reasons.  Highways, streets and bridges may be restricted to only allow car traffic, even though they are public spaces. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think protesters will get very far arguing that they have an absolute right to camp out overnight.  That argument has been played out in the courts and that reasoning has lost every time.  Mayors, police and public officials have a duty to protect the health and safety of all citizens.</p>
<p>That is why the discussion must center on how to allow peaceful protests that do not interfere with the rights of others. I think, Brian, you hit it squarely when you talked about communication.  </p>
<p>However, I think it is unreasonable to demand that there be a &#8220;leader&#8221; empowered by every protester to speak for him or her.  This is not a church club or a Kiwanis club that has an elected president we are talking about.  This is a a group only in the sense that they are in the same place at the same time.  Many have competing disagreements with society. I do think it wise for each site to have an &#8220;organizing committee&#8221; that can negotiate and bring back information to the entire group.</p>
<p>Cities and police must make an extrordinary effort to develop communication and not be impatient by demanding instant results. </p>
<p>Our nation has not chosen anarchy as the path for a better society, and no side should be allowed to engage in it.
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		<title>By: smokey984</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2130</link>
		<dc:creator>smokey984</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/?p=1016#comment-2130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen
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		<title>By: rivitman</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2128</link>
		<dc:creator>rivitman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[No, it&#039;s not really a lawful order, given the circumstances and the constitutional issues involved.  No matter what flimsy predicate a politician may use. It&#039;s no more lawful than the orders given by Chicago mayor Richard Daley in Chicago in 1968.

Because you see, if you distill ows&#039;s grievances, analyze them carefully, you will understand the this a PRO CAPITALISM movement, that just happens to be to be an anti corrupt politician, anti corrupt corporation, and pro enforcement of the existing securities trading laws. Are they against the Federal Reserve? Oh, yes. This places them in the direct company of Alexander Hamilton.

So mayors and other local and national politicians, being fundamentally corrupt, have a vested interest in directing police chiefs to do their wet work for them. They are desperate to keep up appearances, hide their failings, take corporate money, and belly up for another course at the table of plenty, set for them by the taxpayer.

We&#039;ll know for certain we haven&#039;t made any social or political steps forward when the national guard gets called out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it&#8217;s not really a lawful order, given the circumstances and the constitutional issues involved.  No matter what flimsy predicate a politician may use. It&#8217;s no more lawful than the orders given by Chicago mayor Richard Daley in Chicago in 1968.</p>
<p>Because you see, if you distill ows&#8217;s grievances, analyze them carefully, you will understand the this a PRO CAPITALISM movement, that just happens to be to be an anti corrupt politician, anti corrupt corporation, and pro enforcement of the existing securities trading laws. Are they against the Federal Reserve? Oh, yes. This places them in the direct company of Alexander Hamilton.</p>
<p>So mayors and other local and national politicians, being fundamentally corrupt, have a vested interest in directing police chiefs to do their wet work for them. They are desperate to keep up appearances, hide their failings, take corporate money, and belly up for another course at the table of plenty, set for them by the taxpayer.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll know for certain we haven&#8217;t made any social or political steps forward when the national guard gets called out.
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		<title>By: smokey984</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2126</link>
		<dc:creator>smokey984</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 05:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Brian sais: The answer is that a city official, typically the mayor, will determine that an enforcement action needs to take place

So if i have the right to peacefully assemble guaranteed to me by this country&#039;s constitution and the mayor orders the police to clear out the area.....

Isn&#039;t that an unlawful order coming from the mayor? 

again that&#039;s the point Ive been trying to make here and in your other blog posts...Its that blind faith toward elected officials that bothers me/us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian sais: The answer is that a city official, typically the mayor, will determine that an enforcement action needs to take place</p>
<p>So if i have the right to peacefully assemble guaranteed to me by this country&#8217;s constitution and the mayor orders the police to clear out the area&#8230;..</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that an unlawful order coming from the mayor? </p>
<p>again that&#8217;s the point Ive been trying to make here and in your other blog posts&#8230;Its that blind faith toward elected officials that bothers me/us.
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		<title>By: Brian O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2011/10/29/ows-throwing-rocks-and-losing-relevance/#comment-2124</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 02:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a fair question, smcelhiney. The answer is that a city official, typically the mayor, will determine that an enforcement action needs to take place. He will summon the police chief and direct him/her to take action. The police chief, who is both advisor and subordinate of the mayor or city manager, will determine how best to implement the required action. When the two are in agreement, the chief will make it happen. But if the chief decides that the enforcement action is a poor decision, legally unenforceable or tactically unsound, the chief can refuse to take action. Obviously that can be a career decision.

So, yes, the Mayor&#039;s office can take direct action through the chief&#039;s office, and that is exactly how things occurred in Atlanta, Seattle and Oakland.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a fair question, smcelhiney. The answer is that a city official, typically the mayor, will determine that an enforcement action needs to take place. He will summon the police chief and direct him/her to take action. The police chief, who is both advisor and subordinate of the mayor or city manager, will determine how best to implement the required action. When the two are in agreement, the chief will make it happen. But if the chief decides that the enforcement action is a poor decision, legally unenforceable or tactically unsound, the chief can refuse to take action. Obviously that can be a career decision.</p>
<p>So, yes, the Mayor&#8217;s office can take direct action through the chief&#8217;s office, and that is exactly how things occurred in Atlanta, Seattle and Oakland.
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