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Tacoma Twilight bike race moving after two years.

Post by Craig Hill / The News Tribune on April 19, 2012 at 7:03 am with 61 Comments »
April 19, 2012 7:39 am

At least 300 bike racers converged on downtown Tacoma last summer for a day of bicycle racing known as the Tacoma Twilight Criterium. They won’t be back this summer.

Mike Brown, owner of Tacoma Bike and one of the organizers of the race, says the event is moving to the Proctor neighborhood after two years downtown.

He said excitement about the race by Proctor businesses was the primary reason for moving the race that requires closing about a mile of roads.

This year’s race is scheduled for June 30, according to the Washington State Bicycle Association’s racing calendar.

Leave a comment Comments → 61
  1. NineInchNachosII says:

    guess empty storefronts don’t generate excitement like they used to. RENTIS2DAMNHIGH !

  2. Oh Great. Another silly event for a very tiny minority where they no doubt will close off the streets so THEY can have their fun.

    Where else but here! Shut down entire neighborhoods, and close off PUBLIC roadways so a few “greenies” can OWN the road for awhile!

    You know there WAS a time when SENSIBLE thinking in this screwy berg used places like Pt Defiance (anyone remember the Sound to Narrows?) where for the most part, these events really didn’t interfere with the day to day movement of the majority.

    Not today…if its “green” it gets to do whatever it dang well wants to. Just a few weeks ago, I noticed that once again, Schuster Parkway was closed, (I drive it every day and never once saw a sign announcing the closure either) so a bunch of JOGGERS could run down the middle of a major four-lane arterial!!

  3. buddyandelliott says:

    That will be a really great move! The area is easy to detour around for those who don’t like anything (see previous commenter) and it already has a natural attraction for crowds. I was a spectator last year and most everything downtown was closed. The shortage of spectators for such an amazing race was a disappointment as well and the better location will bring more spectators. Watching the bicyclist whizzing by is exciting for all age groups.

    And really Mr. Grumblepants, it’s not a “greenie” thing and the Sound to Narrows still happens every year. Being slightly inconvenienced is not the end of the world, if one takes a deep breath, realizes that the world is not all about him, one may actually enjoy some of this stuff. I’ll keep you in mind when I’m running the Tacoma City Half Marathon next month…right down the middle of Schuster Parkway.

  4. alindasue says:

    Dcr628,

    The Sound-to-Narrows race (coming up again in about two months) has never used JUST Point Defiance. It blocks off a large section of the north end of town.

  5. Dcr…you crack me up. I am, by no means, a greenie nor do I worship at that altar. But you might need to check some facts and see that Tacoma has been hosting these sorts of activities for over a century. You can peruse the Tacoma Ledger articles of the past to find organized bicycle rides/races in Tacoma in the early parts of the 20th Century. The Sound to Narrows route, while incorporating portions of 5 Mile Drive also includes the entire length of Vassault Drive (from Vassault Park to Pt. Defiance).

    I used to be one of those frustrated by every crazy run that consumes the Shuster Pkwy and Ruston Way, seemingly every Saturday or Sunday morning…but as I made a change in my own life to being physically fit, I applaud those who do run (I’m not one of them) and make it a goal to not join the nearly 50% (yes, it is way more than the 1/3 that is preached by the gubmint) of the population in being obese.

  6. nonstopjoe says:

    Do it down S. Tacoma Way past the auto dealerships on Saturday afternoon – to inconvenience the maximum number of people intent
    on engaging in commerce.

  7. DCR: having experienced it myself, I know those Parisians really HATE it when that silly lycra-encased Tour de France thing rolls down the Champs Elysses. What an inconvenience that thing is! Talk about shutting down commerce and getting in the way.

  8. buddyandelliott says:

    A criterium is run in a loop, not very STW friendly. This won’t affect commerce in the Proctor district as it is probably the most community function-oriented area in the city. People walk from thier houses to watch the parades, attend the farmer’s markets and partake in many of the othe events throughout the year. If you’re so new to Tacoma that you don’t know alternate routes, or so lazy that you won’t bother to look, that’s your issue.
    (Hey GeeMan, you say you’re not a runner, but did you know that there’s 5k that you could walk during the Tacoma City Marathon. The more the merrier!)

  9. buddyandelliott says:

    *their

  10. alindasue says:

    buddyandelliott,

    If memory serves, I believe there’s a 5k you can walk during the Sound-to-Narrows too. I’m pretty sure that’s what my sister participated in last year…

  11. Ortingmom says:

    I hope its the same for the Ruston 5K ???

  12. Thanks for the invites!

    My plantar faciitis precludes me from participating in runs/walks as the pain is too great for me afterward. Cycling is my forte and I will be participating in other events throughout the region (though I am too wise to ride in a crit – I’m not too keen on wiping out).

  13. You people are humorous.

    When I brought up the Sound-To-Narrows, I knew full well it was still an annual occurance. I ALSO worded my comment to say “where for THE MOST PART, these events really didn’t interfere with the day to day movement of the majority”. I know the S2N route encompasses Vassault, which by the way is NOT a major arterial. But no, to make your silly defenses more than a few of you ignored that detail.

    And “buddy”(and the rest of you spandexolycra pants exhibitionists)..Mr Grumblepants here does NOT think the world is “all bout him”…but he DOES think the MINORITY of people who engage in these activities could and should locate their events in a place that does not FORCE the majority to adapt to them. Now who is it all about?? And frankly, when youre running that jocko marathon “right down the middle of Schuster Parkway”, I truly hope a seagull poops on your nose ;)

  14. BlaineCGarver says:

    Cyclists (and I do ride a little in nice weather on a geezer-glide Trek) are among the most inconsiderate road users there are. Period. Most of the time I feel ZERO empathy when they *itch about four-wheelers. Weaving in and out of traffic…not caring how much of a lane they take up. Even when there is a bike lane, they ride two or more abreast causing slowdowns…..Doom on most cyclists.

  15. Blaine – I understand your gripes about riders, yet that road has two directions. I obey the traffic laws (which do not mention single-file, btw) and yet I get harassed by motorists on EVERY ride in Tacoma. Cell phone drivers fail to observe crosswalks (in particular crossing 6th ave on the Pearson trail). EVERY time I observe the crosswalk signal and begin to safely cross, inevitably the driver jack-rabbit starts to proceed through the crosswalk. Even as I previously (during the red light) made eye-contact with the driver, they ignore the law…sometimes cussing me out indignantly.

    I ride inside bike lanes when present but occasionally have to avoid beer bottle glass and other hazards tossed there by law-abiding motorists, no doubt. No cars within hundreds of yards when I swerve, yet someone happens to observe the swerve and chews me out for being in the motorist’s lane.

    Then there are the people who find it fun to throw their beer and soda bottles at me. The gang-bangers who see me as a nice, whitey-target tossing every racial slur at me while threatening to kill me. That always makes me feel welcome. Not to mention the weapon brandishing that takes place. I know, that my bicycle is extremely intimidating and is the cause for incredible fear for some.

    Btw, the bike shorts (I wear longer pants) are a matter of comfort (the padding in the seat-area is needed for rides of 50 or more miles). The tightness provides compression for the muscles which reduces the effects of fatigue while reducing wind resistance (drag). I do realize that people who are obese and have unsightly bodies find this apparel offensive which is good thing…we don’t want to see them wearing it either.

  16. There just ain’t no pleasing everyone(Dcr628).

  17. Cyclists are among the most inconsiderate road users there are. Period.

    Wow, what a generalization that is. I seldom see this and I am constantly observing other cyclists’ behavior both while on the bike and while I am operating a motor vehicle. When I do see something that would infuriate the bike-haters, it is usually a defensive response to something a motorist is doing or has done.

  18. m9078jk3 says:

    I too like GeeMan have experienced being accosted while commuting lawfully on a bike.I ignore the (usually the passenger) insults however if physically confronted I am armed and prepared while riding.I won’t hesitate a millisecond in dropping a punk.

  19. I never ride a bike but I wish I had a dollar for every lawbreaking, inconsiderate automobile driver I encounter on my twice daily walks. I’d be a thousand-aire in a week.

  20. jfkinney says:

    Eventually both human powered and motor power vehicle operators will realize they share responsibility for how they use the roads.

    The bottom line is that the roadways were created to the benefit of commerce. Events like the Sound to Narrows, bicycle races, parades, and numerous other types of events that fully or partially close roads for any period of time have an effect on commerce. And the reason they happen week after week is because they ultimately benefit commerce.

    It may be inconvenient in the short term when these events occur, but the long term benefits are well documented. Why else do cities bid to host major sporting events?

    Nearly nine months ago, a unknown motorist either chose to ignore the law, or didn’t pay attention for a fraction of a second. It quite literally nearly killed me. And there have been cases where a cyclists have significantly injured pedestrians.

    Perhaps this can best be summed by saying, we all have a right to use the roadways. We all need to be responsible in how we use the roads. And most of all, we all should be willing to sacrifice a little bit of our own convenience to “promote the general welfare”.

  21. rocketruss says:

    For those who are not versed in the Washington State Bicycle Laws:

    1. When riding on a roadway, a cyclist has the all rights and responsibilities of a vehicle driver (RCW 46.61.700). Cyclists who violate traffic laws may be ticketed (RCW 46.61.750).
    2. Cyclist may ride side by side, but not more than two abreast (RCW 46.61.770).
    3. Cyclists may choose to ride on the path, bike lane, shoulder or travel lane as suits their safety needs (RCW 46.61.770).
    4. Three feet from the widest point of both vehicles is the minimum safe passing distance at slow speeds. Even if the bicyclist is riding on the edge of the bicycle lane next to the traffic lane, the 3 feet rule applies.

    Please be courteous, to all those on the road. Cyclists have rights and responsibilities, and must obey laws. This, just like motorists.

  22. rocketruss says:

    Furthermore…
    Kudos to Mike Brown & Tacoma Bike for pushing through the Tacoma Twilight Criterium…and securing the Proctor District. That will be lots of fun!

  23. “Cyclists are among the most inconsiderate road users there are. Period.”

    Boy oh boy if that isnt an understatement!

    Some people in this thread may not believe this, but I have a bicycle…a fairly decent one at that. I used to ride frequently, in fact quite often. I rode with traffic once or twice and thought, “sheesh forget this junk!” So deciding not to risk my life competing with motor vehicles ( which of course bicycles are NOT!)I chose to stay on non motorized bike paths. I found myself playing escape and evade among all the spandexjockos who thought they owned the bike paths as well as the public highways! One time I even joined the Tacoma Wheelmen club and went on ONE organized ride. I was in the back, and witnessed the entire group of 12 or so cyclists in this “safety conscious” group completely ignore a half a dozen posted stop signs!! I didn’t even finish the ride with them….just turned around and went home!

    Nope I have little sympathy for the self centered jockos on bicycles who have to stupid notion that they are equal to motor vehicles. Regardless of the law of the State….the Law Of Common Sense will tell you that a bicycle is a TOY….no different than a skateboard, a pair of roller skates, or any other human powered conveyance. They are NOT equal to motor vehicles.

  24. I try not to make comments to specific statements on these forums because they can quickly devolve into nothing more than a public shouting match. But there are some significant issues raised in Dcr628’s last post that compel me to speak out.

    First, the Law of Common Sense states that a bicycle is a form of transportation. Yes, it is used for recreation, like toys are. But even your own statement says that it is a vehicle, a means of conveyance.

    This is not the same as saying they are equal to motor vehicles. Just like a pick-up is not the equal of a sedan. Nor is a powerboat the equal to a motorcycle. As a cyclist, we make joke about being more evolved than people trapped in cars, but that is the same as those who commute by train joke about being more evolved than those trapped in the traffic on the freeway coming home from Seattle. Whatever you choose is for your own reason, and it is to be hoped that you consider your choices deliberately.

    Second, I will admit that there have been times as a cyclist that I have always followed the laws. There have been times when a Stop sign along the way was ignored. At the same time, I will also admit that there have been times as a driver that I have not always followed the laws. And that is likely true for every driver on the road today. If you believe you are one of the people that always follows the law, check your freeway speed the next time you travel I-5.

    How we feel about the laws of the State are not an issue. The fact is the laws are there. We all need to recognize them, and should follow them at all times.

    But most of all, the primary concern is the way in which cyclists are vilified here. And cyclists can be just as guilty of doing the same to motorists. Look over these posts here and replace the words “driver”, “cyclist”, or any of the names being used to refer to those groups, with a word like “german”, “russian”, or “asian” and the same prejudice, hatred, and intolerance that defines racism is plainly evident.

    Cyclist and motorist have no need to compete. The roadways was made for both of us. It’s time for us to work together and, as I said before, “promote the general welfare”.

  25. Regardless of the law of the State – And this is the crux of the bicycle opponents. Laws-be-damned, “we” are just going to ensure that we breed animosity toward all cyclists and runners by spewing vitriol.

    I have a bicycle…a fairly decent one at that – This is what is known as an attempt to pose as a cycling expert.

    spandexjockos – priceless. They must not have some large enough for you. :-D

  26. No response to GeeMan considering the childishness of his post. Just to break this down a bit GeeMan…fact is that by their very arrogant behavior most cyclst are to blame for the animosity towards them….Second, I’ve never attempted to “pose” as a cycling expert. Frankly what I have seen of cyclists, I wouldnt want the association! And third, I am a solid 6 foot 2, at 190lbs with a comfortable 36 inch waist. Your assumptions and genralizations really make you look silly….probably as silly as those spandexjocko day glow britches of yours!

  27. …and to JFKinney…you may have referred to that as a joke, but humor often hides a lot of truth. I honestly do believe that many local bicyclists really do see themselves as “evolved” beyond the rest of us. How arrogant! And you wonder why people think about cyclists the way they do. Sorry but the majority of people, I truly believe have the negative opinions about cyclists based on that arrogance. If bicylists want the rest of us to share the road, then cyclists need to get on with policing their own.

  28. JFKinney assumes, ‘If you believe you are one of the people that always follows the law, check your freeway speed the next time you travel I-5.’

    Its amazing the assumptions people make when they find an opposing comment! Simply amazing!
    Frankly as a professional driver, quite likely with more racked up safe miles than most people in this town (documented miles by the way) I DO travel the posted speed limit under only one condition…..that CONDITIONS warrant it! Do you? Didnt think so.

  29. …Additional fact to your assumption JFKinney….I’ve even had my speedometer calibrated and tested. I seriously doubt there are many who can claim that. Ya might wanna be careful with assumptions! ;)

  30. And to be clear, I have no problem with cyclists using the roadways. My peeve is what on earth they have to be IN traffic? Why would anyone with half a lick of sense insist on riding a 20lb bicycle anywhere near, braindead, half asleep motorists? ( I refuse to call them drivers!) JFK…you most likely would not have been “nearly killed” if you weren’t trying to compete with a two ton moving piece of machinery controlled by an inept operator!

    I see bicyclists all the time riding on busy arterials when there is an empty street one block over. I think most people see that and take them as “in your face because the law says they can” arrogance. There is the law of the State, and there is the Law of Common Sense. For too many people, they don’t get law number two!

  31. DCR…you’re hilarious!

    Anyone who has any understanding of the analysis of bicycle accidents/injuries would know that riding on side streets or sidewalks are a far riskier venture. As bad as motorists are on multi-lane roadways with traffic controls (signals and signs), they are far worse at uncontrolled residential intersections, blowing through them without ensuring it is safe to do so.

    Riding on sidewalks as many motorists (like you) enjoy screaming their lungs out at cyclists to ride on the sidewalk. Well, that is merely a visceral reaction due to their obvious frustration. It is also unwise to ride on a sidewalk where cars NEVER check in either direction for pedestrians, let alone a cyclist. Add to that that pedestrians have the right of way on the sidewalk in bicycle/pedestrian encounters. Also, pedestrians usually walk 3-4 abreast, have their dogs on/off leash adding to the risk of injury for cyclists and pedestrians.

    The most humorous aspect of this blog is that you continue to display your animosity toward cyclists which, without a doubt, is merely a fraction of what you do when you encounter us on the road. Just remember, some of us do ride armed and, if they have no way to evade or sense your threats for what they probably are, you might need to prepare for a hailstorm of lead coming your way. Who knows…maybe that rider has had enough of the negative encounters with motorists such as yourself…enough so that they’ll return the favor to you.

    I look forward to your next hate-filled barrage – the display of your building anger on display for us all to mock.

    Thanks for the entertainment!!!

  32. Dcr628, I specifically avoided directing any negative comments at any specific individual other than myself. If that was unclear, then I will take it as a lesson learned and be more diligent in policing my comments in the future.

    To clarify, I was not accusing you of failing to follow the maximum speed law, but suggesting that each of us at one time or another does fail to follow it. I can say this with a 97% level of confidence, based on independent research. This was an attempt to get people to observe personal behaviors before judging another person for any example of their behavior. (As a note, you seem to imply that you routinely do not follow the posted speed limit. I understand that this does not mean that you willfully exceed the limit, but that is not obvious to the casual reader.)

    Please do recognize as well that you are making significant assumptions about others throughout your statements. For example, you make an assumption about me and my driving record. If you want to know, I have logged hundreds of thousands of incident free driving miles in my profession. And although I don’t have my speedometer calibrated and tested by a certified mechanic, I routinely verify its accuracy against GPS data with the aid of a passenger.

    Maybe I erred in admitting to some of the farcical jokes that my friends and I make. We know that these are merely caricatures of real people, and do not reflect our honest feelings. But that was not clear to you and seems to be a point of contention. I apologize for any perceived harm in our humor.

    At the end of all this discussion and finger pointing, my primary points are still invariant, and yet to be disputed:
    1. The roadways were made to “promote the general welfare” and for the benefit of commerce as a part of the transportation network.
    2. The bicycle is a viable means of transportation.
    3. All users of the roadways, vehicular (both motorized and non-motorized) and pedestrian, should follow the law whether it is convenient to them and regardless if they feel the law is reasonable.
    4. Many of the generalizations given in the comments on this article, and on similar articles throughout the web, show the same bigotry and hatred that is the foundation of racism.

  33. GeeMan, thank you for the support regarding the reality of commuting by bicycle.

    It is very difficult for me to restrain my anger regarding the implied suggestion that I was in any way at fault for being hit by a driver on my way home from the start of a new job as a tutor and beginning studies to become a Mathematics teacher. If anyone really wants to know the details of the incident as reported in the news, look up “Jym Kinney” and “cyclist” to find the news reports from the local TV stations.

    The driver of the vehicle that struck me never even slowed down after I was struck. It seems odd to me that more concern has been displayed for animals that have been struck by cars than people who have been struck when the people happen to have been riding bicycles.

    What happened to me was a crime, perpetrated by the operator of a motor vehicle. The sad commentary is that while the crime that happened to me would be prosecuted as a felony, if the perpetrator is ever found, the operator of a motor vehicle that struck a cyclist who was clearly in the shoulder TWICE (according to multiple witness reports) and KILLED the cyclist was found guilty of a traffic infraction.

  34. craftigirlj says:

    GEEMAN, I would love to meet you on a bike ride someday. Any chance you’ll be there for the Crit?

    I’ve been quietly following this thread, aghast at the venomous and purposefully spiteful comments DCR has dared to air in public. Here’s what I read at the bottom of this page: “We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.” DCR, I agree that you have a right to your opinions, and have the freedom to express them, but at least play by the rules. The name calling and hate speeches only serve to make you sound simple and ignorant.

    The vast majority of cyclists I have met have been careful, law abiding, caring and generous people. They would literally give you the shirt of their back or their last protein bar if you needed it. Only once have I met one who was outright rude. But I have never seen a cyclist attack a motor vehicle driver to injure them severely and then take off, leaving the driver to die on the side of the road. JFKinney was struck by a car from behind, and the driver didn’t even stop or slow down. That is a heinous act of violence, and I hope it eventually catches up to them.

    I’ve been yelled at by pedestrians and motor vehiclists alike for riding on BIKE paths. I don’t think the solution is in moving the cyclists, but in learning how to respect each other and look out for each other instead of attacking each other.

    After all this discussion, I am going to plan on being there at the Crit, to cheer on and support the riders, for doing something they love and have every right and freedom to do. If you don’t like it, you can just stay home and wash your car or something.

  35. WasDCRnowDCR628revised says:

    Speaking of “hilarious”! I love the way you put words in the mouths of those you disagree with. I just re-read my earlier comments GMan.

    GMan says, “As bad as motorists are on multi-lane roadways with traffic controls (signals and signs), they are far worse at uncontrolled residential intersections, blowing through them without ensuring it is safe to do so.”

    GeeMan, those empty side streets often have stop signs…so STOP at them…If they dont, scan the intersection and give way to the vehicle on the right, like everyone else does and stay off the main arterials where you do little more than slow traffic, infuriate drivers and make yourself look like the arrogant people you sound like in this column.

    Then you say, “Riding on sidewalks as many motorists (like you) enjoy screaming their lungs out at cyclists to ride on the sidewalk.”

    Never once did I suggest riding on a sidewalk. Once again the assumptions you people make are astounding!

    And THEN you top off the proof of your arrogance with THIS gem GeeMan!! “The most humorous aspect of this blog is that you continue to display your animosity toward cyclists which, without a doubt, is merely a fraction of what you do when you encounter us on the road. Just remember, some of us do ride armed and, if they have no way to evade or sense your threats for what they probably are, you might need to prepare for a hailstorm of lead coming your way.”

    Where did I ever suggest that my “animosity” towards bicyclists would cause me to behave in dangerous, aggressive behavior to purposely cause harm to ANYONE? Fact is I see bicyclists ahead and I often make the effort to take the side streets and avoid them that YOU arrogant clowns do not! And once again your ASSUMPTIONS are astounding! However, to sit here in a public forum and make THREATS of ARMED VIOLENCE…My God GeeMan….I’d suggest you just lost the support of anyone reading this who might have been sitting on the fence regarding support for bicycles! Good Job tough guy.

  36. JFK, you write, “As a note, you seem to imply that you routinely do not follow the posted speed limit. I understand that this does not mean that you willfully exceed the limit, but that is not obvious to the casual reader.”

    Could you show where I said that. My comment was the exact opposite! However we apparently share some commonality. You mention your hundreds of thousands of incident free miles in your profession. I have right around 2 million safe, documented miles as a professional driver and countless thousands of additional miles as a general motorist since 1970 and to date have not had an encounter with a bicycle that I have not safely negotiated.

    Then you share:
    At the end of all this discussion and finger pointing, my primary points are still invariant, and yet to be disputed:
    1. The roadways were made to “promote the general welfare” and for the benefit of commerce as a part of the transportation network.
    2. The bicycle is a viable means of transportation.
    3. All users of the roadways, vehicular (both motorized and non-motorized) and pedestrian, should follow the law whether it is convenient to them and regardless if they feel the law is reasonable.
    4. Many of the generalizations given in the comments on this article, and on similar articles throughout the web, show the same bigotry and hatred that is the foundation of racism.

    I dont disagree with any of that, however I still stand by the Law of Common Sense. With the vast networks of city streets on an organised grid for the most part, there is no reason – despite GeeMans excuses – for bicycles and motor vehicles to be on the exact same street. I am reminded of the oft times I have watched bicycles infuriate motorists on N 21st Street, which is a relative “freeway”, when they could and should be safely out of the way on one of the parallel side streets. However, you last item, number four. To suggest that any comments made in this thread that you oppose would contain the same hatred and bigotry as racism is the most convoluted, ludicrous AND arrogant statements I have read in quite awhile! Not to bring politics into this, but with such a statement as that, I have no doubt JFK, that you are among Tacoma’s vast Liberal population! Its clear by that comment that you are groveling now, and like GeeMan have likely lost the support of many.

  37. One thing is for certain. Offering an opposing thought in this “progressive” screwy town, is about as futile as herding cats!

    One thing I have discovered here in the Puget Sound region. Being direct and honest is taken as aggressive and rude.

    The rule out here is to be PASSIVE! Be arrogant and rude in your aggression, just smile while you do it! HAAA!

    Well, passive isnt me. My comments are honest and to the point direct. Locals have issues with that. :D

  38. Dcr628, as you requested:

    “I DO travel the posted speed limit under only one condition.”

    This can be logically equated to “If I follow the posted speed limit then a unique condition exists”. By suggesting that a condition can be unique, it implies that the condition is not universally true. Therefore we can consider there may be circumstances when the unique condition does not exist. Further, your statement is the logical equivalent of “If a unique condition does not exist, then I do not follow the speed limit”. Thus, you have implied that that you do not always follow the posted speed limit. QED.

    Regarding my fourth proposition, I include all persons posting from every point of view. Sweeping generalizations such as “Cyclist are …” and “… inevitably the driver …” are examples of the comments that can be construed in such a manner as to have a universal bias. Further, as comments from both points of view have been considered, generality is not lost. Universal bias is the foundation of racism. Thus, comments on this article show the same hatred and bigotry that is the foundation of racism. QED.

    Finally, I do not care about the support of any, but rather my that I maintain own integrity. For generations, my family has elected to take an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies both foreign and domestic”.

    These events that you disparage can clearly be supported under the right of assembly. Furthermore, they are a boon to commerce and therefore “promote the general welfare.” Support events of this nature therefore maintains my personal integrity. My personal preference here is irrelevant.

    As you are a former military member, my challenge to you is to consider your expressed viewpoints and ask if they are essentially another attempt at creating segregation. Can you see where you have suggested an idea that is essentially “separate but equal”? Is this not a practice which you would have been duty bound to oppose?

  39. DCR…funny, I too am a (combat) veteran also highly skilled with an array of weapons as well as a wide variety of tactics. However, one thing that stands out is my reading comprehension as well as writing which far surpasses yours. You somehow gleaned that I was the one with the weapon. Someone else on this thread mentioned that they rode armed, I also added that I knows of several riders who also ride armed.

    None would initiate action but would take defensive measures (such as quickly dismounting to better position them from to prepare for your assault.

    I only offer that as a warning that when you intimidate others as you are attempting to here…you will eventually find someone who knows how to defend themselves.

    You’d be better off getting out of your car and choosing the bus or a cab so as to keep your nerves calm. We all pay for and use the roads. You should find a way to attain inner peace in something that takes you away from your obvious hatred and violent tendencies toward bicyclists!

    Peace!

  40. GeeMan, I seriously doubt your reading OR composition skills will EVER match mine, but thats another subject. Now then let me re-offer exactly what you wrote.

    (“Remember, some of us do ride armed and, if they have no way to evade or sense your threats for what they probably are, you might need to prepare for a hailstorm of lead coming your way.”)

    Those were your exact words reposted Mr GeeMan. Now then, I’d say if those words were put to a public vote, I’d put my money on the majority who would take that as a veiled threat. I’d say you felt a need to explain yourself becuase after the fact you realized how ridiculous you sounded! Maybe if you want to avoid garner that kind of attention son, you may want to disclaim yourself from the beginning rather than come along later and change your story. So much for your wordsmith skills.

    Now then lets just take this one step further with your last post.

    (“None would initiate action but would take defensive measures (such as quickly dismounting to better position them from to prepare for your assault.”)

    Good Lord GeeMan are you nuts or just paranoid! No one is out to “assault” anyone here! Other than you and your six gun threats!

    And then you come up with, (“I only offer that as a warning that when you intimidate others as you are attempting to here…you will eventually find someone who knows how to defend themselves.”)

    NO where in ANY of my posts did I “intimidate” anyone. I simply stated, quite clearly I believe, my disgust, as well as shared by the majority of motorists I’m sure, towards the in your face, arrogant cyclists who pose a danger to themselves and others by their selfish actions. I very clearly suggested that cyclists use one of the other many routes available for their own safety as well, rather than purposely infuriate motorists, and risk hazard. Of course you had a problem with that. That was expected. Because as we all know, people like you are going to damn well ride where they want to damn well ride.

    On the other hand, I see SAFE, SENSIBLE cyclists all day, I was one of them until common sense and personal safety told me to put the stupid thing in the basement! THOSE responsible cyclists I applaud! Counted three of them on the way home from work today. Good on them!

    At any rate, this is a worthless conversation as arrogant gunslingers like yourself could care less what others think and refuse or ridicule any opposing comment. Like I said, its like hearding cats!

  41. ….and GeeMan, to reiterate, you wrote, “some of US do ride armed…”
    namYessir, I’d suggest that most people who read that would take that to mean you include yourself in that mix.

    Maybe as a suggestion for next time, you may consider something like “there are those who ride armed….I know some cyclists who ride armed…etc etc. But nope, you clearly included yourself with “US”. I dont think youll be able to dance very far around this one GeeMan.

    I’m curious how you and those others of course would manage this….cycling down a major thoroughfare, you encounter someone in a car who you ASSUME is out to get you…you used the word “assault”.

    So is your style to go “Dirty Harry” and just fire on the fly from the hip. or Errol Flynn style, throwing down the bike and firing over the saddle into the moving mass of traffic, or do you prefer John Wayne style? Pedaling away with hands free, twirling a couple of Winchesters? Haaa! Thats IT!! We have a new name for you GeeMan…we’ll just refer to you as RCIS!! “Rooster Cogburn In Spandex”!!!! we’ll work on that and maybe refine it into something. Geeez what scary imagery!

    You have fun out there Cowboy!

  42. …Okay I admit, I’m having some fun with this. Being, still, a bit miffed at your insensitive, even cruel to some, insinuations about people with weight issues. (spandexjockos – priceless. They must not have some large enough for you”..which you posted on the 19th at 11:17PM)…I have a great suggestion. Maybe Tacoma could get all those folks struggling with weight issues, all the stroller pushing moms, the walkers, the dog people, and gather them all together for an event using YOUR BIKE PATHS Mr GeeMMan on the next sunny day you feel like a ride. Hows that work for you?

    Ahh but it wouldnt matter anyway….You dont use silly bike paths…people like you are out on the main streets in traffic!

  43. JFKinney! You truly ARE a local Liberal. They have a talent for misreading a clear comment, then twisting and perverting it into something entirely different.

    You refer to my comment on the 20th at 1043PM where I said, “Its amazing the assumptions people make when they find an opposing comment! Simply amazing! Frankly as a professional driver, quite likely with more racked up safe miles than most people in this town (documented miles by the way) I DO travel the posted speed limit under only one condition…..that CONDITIONS warrant it!”

    Today you write in your “challenge”

    “This can be logically equated to “If I follow the posted speed limit then a unique condition exists”. By suggesting that a condition can be unique, it implies that the condition is not universally true. Therefore we can consider there may be circumstances when the unique condition does not exist. Further, your statement is the logical equivalent of “If a unique condition does not exist, then I do not follow the speed limit”. Thus, you have implied that that you do not always follow the posted speed limit.”

    On pure Liberal fashion you have embarrassed yourself with your twists and psuedo-intellectual turns! VERY clearly, I made the point that I follow the Speed Limit only on one condition…When conditions warrant it. Unbeleiveable that I have to paint a picture! That speed limit sign says clearly, Speed LIMIT….as in the fastest you may legally travel! as such, if CONDITIONS do not warrant safe travel at that limit, I go slower! For weather, traffic, road hazards, BICYCLES, you know road hazards!

    My God this is getting tiring!

  44. And then JFKinney, you add, “these events that you disparage can clearly be supported under the right of assembly. Furthermore, they are a boon to commerce and therefore “promote the general welfare.” Support events of this nature therefore maintains my personal integrity. My personal preference here is irrelevant.”

    Good Grief, now your taking a silly bicycle event to the level of the Constitution?!! This IS getting weird, flung far out of proportion and downright ridiculous.

    NONE of my comments, either the original or those resulting from the comments made by you or GeeManCogburn EVER attempted to take your precious Constitutional Rights away from you. My comments were very simply that these select events catering to a very, VERY small minority, that restrict the FREE MOVEMENT of the majority on a PUBLIC road by the way (Open your Book of Rights for that why dont you.) are a royal pain in the neck. Sure those of inconvienced deal with it, we re-route, we adjust, we give up our own right to free travel, so a few spandex jockos can ride or jog down the middle of the street. Pretty simple stuff.

  45. I’ll have to call this a common sense victory over the self interest strugglers who in their self-righteous, world saving, attempt in vain to make themselves right and the opposition wrong.

    Like I said, its like herding cats! The majority of people fed up with arrogant cyclists will agree with my comments I am sure, but any further conversation on this topic is futile and pointless.

  46. Dcr628,

    My original intent in commenting on this post, and eventually directing a comment at statements you made, was to encourage people to look at the issue from differing viewpoints. And then examining if there is any validity to the another point of view. Doing that, hopefully, would strengthen our community.

    The name calling, sweeping generalizations, fallacies, and misinformation from multiple parties has in no way decreased throughout the banter. In fact, it has increased. So, rather than continually seeking in vain to discuss the matter with respect to everyone, I’ll withdraw from the “discussion”. I am merely expending energy that can be put to better use than by continuing to respond to false accusations and faulty logic when it only elicits more of the same. So I will let the latest set go without response.

    Please understand this is not the same as saying your statements, or anyone else’s statements, are correct. It is saying that responding to these statements has become a waste of my time.

    I do want to thank you for making it clear that you are objecting to these organized and peaceful events because it inconveniences you as a part of your identified majority. In the future, you may want to consider how to express your lack of support without derision to those who oppose your point of view.

  47. Yep, I’d say you ran out of arguments.

    Feel free to refer to them as “false accusations and faulty logic”. My comments I believe, focus fairly well on not ALL cyclists, by any means, but the arrogant, and dangerous “in your face because I can” bicycle gangsters that so many, many motorists are frustrated with, as well as pointing out that these events restrict the free movement of the majority for the express pleasure of a few. There are places where these minority groups can congregate and enjoy themselves without shutting down sections of major thoroughfares.

    Enjoy yourself and be safe.

  48. Unfortunately for cyclists, this is not Europe where bicycles have always been incorporated into mainstream traffic. Up until only a few short decades ago, bicycles were considered children’s toys, little different from a pair of roller skates.

    You can pass all the laws you want, but it the eye of the majority, bicycles are still regarded that way, and although they may be legal on the street, common sense and the motoring majority says they should yield to heavier, faster traffic. MOST cyclists do, however that particular group of cyclists who insist on being right in the middle of traffic. They are the first ones to claim, correctly by the way, that they have the legal right to be there, and they are the first, and often the only ones in traffic routinely violating the very laws they claim…blowing stop signs, weaving in and out of traffic, passing unsafely through traffic. Unfortunately for those who comply, these rebel cowboys are the people you need to point fingers at.

    Sadly for bicycles, you just dont belong anywhere. I know this, I USED to ride. Motored traffic doesnt want you on the street, dog walkers, and stroller pushers dont want you on the sidewalks and multi use, non motorised paths, and treehuggers dont want you on trails. Thats a sad but true fact of life. And you can blame only the arrogant and rude among yourselves as cyclists.

  49. I love that Dcr is full of words! Can’t stop ranting against cyclists, can you, bro?

    Was in the bike shop yesterday and overheard the discussion among several riders talking about “that psychotic Dcr-guy ranting against cyclists on the Trib.” Funny that they didn’t point anyone else out…just you. There were words of caution to be even more vigilant to watch out for aggressive drivers as “this Dcr-nut might be out to harass today.”

    By the way, “us” refers to the collective of cyclist in my statements. It matters not that you take it to be a threat. I prefer evasive, defensive riding and my cycling skills over confrontation. The problem with firearms is that there are more nuts out there (i.e. criminals) with bigger weapons (i.e. cars). Unlike a concealed weapon, I can see a car coming from behind or in front of me. I observe the posture of the harassers and prepare to take action. I’ve never had a confrontation and I don’t presume to have one yet.

    My warning is plain and simple. I know that people carry (check the cycling forums on the interwebs – there are loads of discussions about them). Personally, I’ve not encountered anyone who has let on that he or she is packing…and wisely so.

    I’ve enjoyed your childish rants and clearly, the few who read this blog have found you to be exactly who we all know you to be…a bitter, overweight couch potato with nothing better to do but to post your incessant drivel on a newspaper blog.

    That is priceless. I won’t be checking back to see your next 5 responses as you rant on. By the way, I have a running bet that you will keep responding as long as someone continues to bait you (known as “troll-feeding”). I will check back so I can claim my winnings!!

    btw…is the “628” (in Dcr628) kilos or lbs when you step on the scale?

    Later…

  50. craftigirlj says:

    GEEMAN, would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation in the bike shop.

    In my experience, people who tend to use such bullying tactics, such as have been displayed here by DCR628, are insecure and have to declare themselves the victor of an argument, whether their arguments are sound or not, because it makes them feel superior. All it does, in truth, is make the bully laughable, and no one takes them seriously. I, too, have been entertained by his constant need to ‘one-up’ everyone who dares disagree with him in any way. It is like watching a 2 year old throw a temper tantrum because a parent denied them a piece of candy. Using logic and reasoning with such a person is a complete waste of time, because they will always continue to wallow in their own self importance.

    Personally, I would rather focus on the original article, and would love to hear stories about those who have participated in the criterium in the past. Anybody?

  51. Oh GeeWhizCogburn, I’m so pleased that I have become the topic of such banter in the bike shop! HAA! Warms me to my ends!

    And your wrong on “over weight couch potato…WAY wrong, but its okay I, like you, dont really give two hoots…and your also wrong on the “troll” story. I have found that every time someone gets their sideways, lame, self important tushy handed to them in a debate the good old troll card always comes out. There was not one aspect of my argument to you about the topics I addressed that wouldnt be supported by the average person trying to get around town in traffic while dealing with Mr Spandex like yourself…Oh and I see again that you have insulted the many individuals dealing with weight issues not once today but twice, to add to your earlier self righteous insults.

    Of course in an article like this, carrying on about the wonderful cycling events and the posts from you and your fellow cyclists I will be labeled the nut case, the grumpy old man who hates bikes! But put this entire thread up to the MAJORITY of the public and you’ll hear a far different tune. If that were not the case, you and the cycling community wouldn’t be such the defensive! Good grief you people have been on the defense from the gitgo, from the very first topic I posted regarding my views that these events are an inconvenience to the majority and you and yours have gone on the rebound with classic psuedo-intellectual (except YOU of course, I doubt you could handle that!) psychobabble like the comments above from “craftygirl”

    Doesnt bother me one bit, in fact I like the idea that the lot of you are bothered enough by the truth I speak (based on majority opinion of course, not the cycling community) that you cant stop the comebacks and evaluations! HAAAA

    You can carry on all you like but all my posts ring quite true. Your double speak and excuses on your veiled threats with handguns falls on deaf ears. Funny as to how you’ve had to explain yourself for two days now on that subject.

    I still have to laugh at your assumptions as well. People like you who can win a debate do tend to rely on assumptions. All the pro-cycle comments made in this thread have been littered with them. The assumptions that I am an “overweight couch potato”! Haaa! Sonny, you figure out a way to work yourself in around my very busy work schedule and my old middle aged butt will run circles around you, at work OR play, Mr. JockoCogburn! I’ve already done it with words, multiple times! Youre lame GeeMan.

    But my opinions aside, I still cant get over your blatant insults to the many people who DO have weight issues. You son, are the classic example of an obnoxious, full of yourself Spandex Jock with disdain for anyone who doesnt pedal his way through life!

    And dont worry, I was done with this thread this morning, I just popped in to see what silliness was posted during the day. The “stories around the bike shop” REALLY made my day however…That one takes the cake!

    Seeya.

  52. By the way, as far as “troll-baiting” you guys are amateurs! Talk about walking right into it! that “bike shop” story was the very thing I was looking for to prove my point! (Sorry, I know this may be over your head).

    All along in this debate I have been obnoxious, often rude, but always VERY direct in what I believe the majority of people see in the cycling community. On a number of responses from you and yours, I have proven my point correctly, to the extent that you cant argue against them.

    Essentially what I have done is walk into that “bike shop” and yell out, “Hey! You are all a bunch of egotistical jerks!!” Of course the expected response would be insult and ridicule right back. Exactly of course what has happened here. However if 90% of the motorists in this city, or any other were outside packing the parking lots, streets and alleys, and they all yelled out “Yes they are!!” You people still wouldnt do anything other than get more indignant. Exactly what one would expect from the egotistical and self-righteous.

    However, time has proven in this silly little debate that no one from the cycling community (wouldnt expect it from you however, GeeMan) has stepped forward to say, “Hmmmm, you know, maybe that obnoxious clown has some valid points. Maybe we SHOULD look at ourselves!”

    As expected no one did. Enjoy yourself Cowboy.

  53. And I cant help but repost GeeBoy’s rude comment, in the hopes that people see this insulting, self righteous jocko clown for what he is….We certainly know what is ISN’T!

    “Is the “628″ (in Dcr628) kilos or lbs when you step on the scale?

    No Jocko, its the number, of LiberalTwits and now add to that, a fraction of the obnoxious, in your face defensive crybabies in the cycling community I have PO’d this week in this newspaper with true opinions! ;)

    Sorry JockoSixshooterFastDrawGeeMan….thats only THREE posts. I know your disappointed :D

  54. craftigirlj says:

    You might at least have spelled my name right. If you are entitled to claim to speak the truth as you see it, then so am I entitled. And I have. But I have not been cruel to you as you have been to others. Honestly, I don’t understand the hostility, and it’s intriguing to watch. I am by no means a liberal (not even close) and am not ‘po’d’. Just stymied as to why someone would be so completely childish to resort to insults and name calling. I don’t even know GeeMan, so I don’t know why you would say that i’m ‘one of his.’ Is it simply because I am a supporter of cycling in general that you lump me in with a group? Or is it because I am interested in his side of the conversation? To clarify, I am not a cyclist, but I have been known to drive a support vehicle for friends during long rides (over 100 miles). I’ve met a lot of really great people this way…not one of whom I would classify as being egotistical or self righteous. But I have seen you act that way quite a lot over the past few days. As for ‘psychobabble’…I have spent enough time around children who are not mature enough to handle their insecurities to understand that bullying behavior, aggressive speech and name calling are the most common ways for those feelings of inferiority to manifest themselves. I have not attacked your character, nor have I called you names. I have simply pointed out that your behavior is not what I would expect of an adult of your asserted level of intelligence and maturity.

    That said, I’m still hoping that others who have stories from the past couple of years will jump in and share, without fear that they will be attacked for ‘pursuing happiness’.

  55. Craftigirlj,

    I wasn’t able to attend the Tacoma Twilight Criterium due to work scheduling, but I can tell you about when I went to the Capital Criterium in Olympia, and when I attended the international level cyclocross events that were held at Ft. Steilacoom park.

    Unfortunately, the events at Ft. Steilacoom have been moved down to Portland. The winter sport of cyclocross is still establishing itself here, and couldn’t support an event where the National Champions of the United States, Canada, and Italy competed. Truly a shame because the winner one year was an alumni of Steilacoom High School. In fact, that year he won Nationals himself. The only times I ever remember seeing more people at Ft Steilacoom Park than that day have been SummerFest. Watching the race was electrifying, and I can only imagine how beneficial it would have been to Lakewood to have international tourists specifically find their way to this small town.

    When I went to the Capital Criterium in Olympia, the races were an all day event. This is an annual event, and usually the State Championship. They close down a major section of Capital Way S for the course, and by the time the Elite level athletes take the course, the street is lined with cheering fans. Even the novice racers enjoyed crowd support (although is was significantly smaller for them).

    Aside from the Tacoma Twilight Criterium, I’d like to be able to attend the Mutual of Encumclaw Stage Rage this year. Or at least the criterium stage of it.

    You know, the most attended multi-day sporting event in United States history has been the Amgen Tour of California. It set the record in its second year, 2006, and surpassed the previous record held by the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. Cycling is the second most popular sport in the world, in large part because the fans can connect with the athletes. Instead of being enshrined in some sporting temple, they are the everyman on the street.

    I think that is why the vast majority of people I know support cycling. Riding in non-sport events like the Seattle to Portland Bicycle Classic and being cheered on by thousands along the way, even though it inconvenienced their use of the roads also leads me to believe that the average person, like you, is willing to support these events because of how they benefit the community. And further, they seem to understand that people need to prepare their bodies for these events, so supporting their use of the roads naturally follows.

  56. Dcr628
    APRIL 22, 2012 AT 9:00 PM

    +

    Dcr628
    APRIL 22, 2012 AT 9:27 PM

    +

    Dcr628
    APRIL 22, 2012 AT 9:34 PM

    =$$$!!!!!

    Thanks!!!

  57. That said, I’m still hoping that others who have stories from the past couple of years will jump in and share, without fear that they will be attacked for ‘pursuing happiness’.

    craftigirlj,

    I know you realize what sort of character this guy is, so there’s no need to further delve into that subject. Although I do enjoy watching the obvious gyrations and hand-wringing that this guy is exhibiting as he rants and raves in his fits of rage. That he is uncontrollably compelled to respond with such vitriol without any substance – merely posting supposed examples of alleged cyclists’ behaviors followed by mass-generalizations, serves only to demonstrate that he the living, breathing example of that which he professes to despise – a raving, mouth-foaming liberal.

    You will see that he cannot refrain from escalating this discussion away from the topic to increased personal attacks…which on the internet, on the internet is utterly hilarious. This is both fun and sad to observe. This poor guy’s life is lived out on this newspaper blog as is shown by his hundreds of snide remarks and attacks on people. Clearly, he isn’t what he professes to be.

    Perhaps we have read him incorrectly?

    Hopefully, his mom and dad will, for his sake, encourage him to go out and play with his friends. Sitting cooped up in the family basement on the internet…especially on these rare, beautiful spring days.

    Perhaps we can all chip in to buy him a bicycle with a nice set of training wheels to get him started. Perhaps we could even fund a road safety course (for him) so that he can manage the difficulties and challenges of riding on the road? This way, by the time he reaches driving age, he will have a solid understanding of the rules of the road and be a better driver.

    I am sure he’s a good kid and will one day, grow up to be a nice young man. At least we can all hope!

  58. $$$$$$$$$….Glad I could help out GeeMan! You sure have some gullible friends! And losing my breakfast through my nose at your last post, I’m laughing so hard! Youre getting better! ;)

    Sorry I cant hang around mommy and daddys basement but I’ve got a 14hr work day ahead of me!

    Hope this extra post gets you some more brownie points in your “told you so ” thing with your pals LOL!

    All fun aside, did you really EVER think that I expected anything other than what was spewed in this far too long thread. Good grief I made my points, regarding the opinion of the vast majority towards “road hog” cyclists, in an article SUPPORTING cycling events! Haa! By the way, lets not forget that several times I made the clear distinction between the many, MANY safe courteous cyclists, and the LycraNazis we all love to hate.

    In the final call I would hope that when you all get your knickers out of their wads, some of you might think that the cycling community should start policing its own, and encouraging some of that courtesy, and compliance with traffic laws. You people preach about having the same rights, only when it benefits you. Most of you however ignore those same laws when it slows you down. Of course with the collective arrogance of most cyclists, I’d say waiting for you to look at yourselves is futile.

    Take care, and Ride Safe.

  59. In the final call I would hope that when you all get your knickers out of their wads…”
    “…and the LycraNazis we all love to hate.”

    It is apparent (by your rantings) to all exactly where the wadded knickers are. ;-)

    Sorry I cant hang around mommy and daddys basement but I’ve got a 14hr work day ahead of me!” –

    Interesting that a paper route should take you that long. Very telling, bro. I am concerned for your health. Perhaps that bicycle will help you as you deliver the news…help you get fit and get the route done quicker.

    Here’s to your health, young man.

  60. craftigirlj says:

    Thanks for your stories, jfkinney, that’s kinda what I was after. ;)

  61. GEEMAN, I would love to meet you on a bike ride someday. Any chance you’ll be there for the Crit?” – craftigirlj

    craftigirlj, I am planning on attending as a spectator. With the risk of crashing being so high (especially at the starting line), I have no interest in competing. While I am competitive to some degree, cycling has afforded me the sense of accomplishment/winning as I continually seek to improve my personal best times on various rides.

    Odds are that we’ve crossed paths if you ride in Tacoma, Pierce, King, Thurston counties. I almost never drive to organized rides opting instead to show up on the bike (already warmed up) and join in wherever they start. Mostly, I ride with my STP partner as we constantly train for health and faster 1-day completion times.

    For me, cycling is about health and being outside. I live to ride and ride to live – cliche, I know…but it is truth. I hate taking rest days…I get edgy when I miss a day of riding (just ask my wife). So much so, that my bike comes with me on road trips out of the area.

*
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